Tol-in-Gaurhoth XLVII: Dueling Wizards Werewolf II

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Lommy

I don't really understand why you criticise me for using my knowledge of you.

Because you do it in a way that suggests you possessed the ultimate truth about my alignment and everyone should believe you. That's what kind of impression I get when I read your posts. And I don't like it.

I do not claim that! I definitely don't! I don't think that way!

Then why does it look like that?

Are you just annoyed that for once I have an inkling that you're evil, I'm not clueless once again? Or are you annoyed because I dare to suspect you more than probably ever before?

I am annoyed because your reasons are bad!

Hope you're enjoying yourself phantom.

edit: xed with him

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Lommy

As for Roa and phantom, I wasn't as foolish as some *coughMaccough* to skip their debate.

As others have stated, I more and more got the feeling of two innocents bashing it out until both are lynched. I'm only keeping Roa a little higher in my suspicions because - she's Roa!

The argument between you and Aganzir, however, looks very, very sinister to me. The last posts of you two confirm that to me. One of you two is evil... but who??

[Diamond18]

Okay, since I have neither the time (it would take many hours and the deadline for today is less than two away) nor the energy to do a comprehensive analysis of everyone, I can't really make a fair case for or against anyone. (Where's the fun in fairness, anyhow?) So here's a slipshod, ambivalent, touchy-feely list of my vague opinions and baseless assumptions about the village.

Greenie -- massive echoing blank here. I can't remember anything about her.

Shasta -- As I said, I'll be watching him. He's a cheerful killer.

Isabellkaya -- has posted very little, has said nothing original or interesting, yet without being as refreshingly forthright about it as yours truly. Hmm. I've never played with her before so I don't know her habits, but this is making me think that getting rid of her would be no great loss.

Lommy -- smooth operator. Wouldn't be surprised if she were rotten to the core.

Nilp -- well if he had any special role he probably wouldn't have forget that it was Day 1. Just sayin.

Eönwë -- the fact that there are two Eonwe's blows my mind. I've played with the one who's played before, and spent all game assuming it was him, now that I know differently, I don't really know that I can make any assumptions about him at all.

Kath -- her page by page recaps make me want to lynch her just to stop her from posting them. Besides, I know how effortlessly evil she can be.

Sally -- Never played with her before, but I like her. She makes me laugh.

Mac-Daddy -- Oh come on, we all know he applied to be a wizard. The man's a born leader, I've modded a game where he was a werecreature, and played with him as one, he is so on my possible wizard list. But IS he actually one? Don't know.

Rikae -- Mommy! Are those wizard robes I see in your closet? I think you applied, anyway.

the phantom -- amuses me.

Cailín -- eeeeeeeeevil. She had made all up on her side yesterday (well, seeing as I didn't actually have time to read the thread, technically she had me on her side during the night while I read it over.) I really started to think that I'd voted for a wolf by luck of the draw (sparing phantom by voting for the next in line) but then she proved innocent and it makes Cailin look bad.

Lhunardawen -- I think Lhuna's innocent. I'm not getting any whiffs of angst or guilt off of her, and I know she doesn't like being evil, so I'm thinking she's alright. Let's lynch her, she's too nice and isn't contributing to my desire for a mass fight-a-thon.

Durelin -- Dury/Durie/Durinator. Not sure what's going on there, but she corrects peoples's word usage. If only she'd be more nasty about it and not back down.

Roa -- It would be funny if she were the EW again. Ha. But really, the insight she brings (has brought) is valuable. My own insight from the former DW game reminds me that nobody assassinates an innocent quite like Roa (she eviscerated my posts in the game, if I hadn't known better I'd have thought I was a wolf) so her gigantic sprawling case against Phantom contains whiffs of evil. I like it, has a nice odor.

Brinn -- Overly thoughtful.

Legate -- Sneaky. Complains about long posts while writing a long post, oh ho ho, that's like me complaining about lack of substance in any one of my posts.

Lalaith -- lalaith is right, she's laughing at US ALL behind that quiet exterior. I'm getting "evil" vibes due to the overall lack of whiffiness either way.

Aganzir -- Eh. I don't know.

The Ka -- I like.

morm -- Wait, he's playing in this game??

Celuien -- see morm

Gwathagor -- Beats me.

McCaber -- If Cailin is evil SO IS HE.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I pity anyone who actually read all that.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Truthfully, since allegiances are constantly changing in this game, all analysis of previous days will ultimately be moot and a big chunkalicious waste of time. IF you're looking for wolves. It's only a viable way to spend you're day if you're looking for the only two players who are never going to change, ever. The Wizards.

Personally, I think that phantom is one of the Wizards. He probably bribed Nogrod with promises of Cornhuskers paraphernalia if he made him a Wizard. Let's lynch him an find out!

By the by, I don't think it's all that harmful to talk about who you think the wizards are. Whoever they are, they're both smart and capable players, otherwise Nogrod wouldn't have entrusted the wizard roles to them. So they are more than perfectly capable to figure who are likely wizards, themselves. I'm not going to worry that my rantings and babblings and speculations are going to influence them either way.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Agan

Hope you're enjoying yourself phantom.

Oh, I am! Keep it up! It's making me all hot.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

The last thing that really stands out to me that I don't like it how Rikae first plays the idea of being a wolf and then jokes about being EW as her previous and future initials are E.W. Okay, I can understand the latter as it's quite funny, but combined it to the "I'm a wolf"-comment it is worth a little eyebrow-raising...

Hey, somebody noticed!
Now, would I say that if I were really evil?

*chuckles*

Anyway, I find this Lommy-Agan thing that's going on at the moment a little fabricated. It definitely gives me the feeling of the EW pulling the strings in the background - then, on the other hand, I said that about the Phantom-Roa thing as well, and I doubt the EW would want 2-4 wolves involved in heated fights like this. As it is, (and as much as I hate doing what that young whippersnapper tells me), I think I'll go for
++Legate
and leave those debates to be sorted out at a later time.

EDIT: X'd with everybody since The Phantom

[Shastanis Althreduin]

We've got some bad weather heading our way (it's heading north, so Sally and Phantom, watch out! ) and I've got to vote before something happens to my internet.

++Legate... my prime suspect at this point.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Anyway, I find this Lommy-Agan thing that's going on at the moment a little fabricated. It definitely gives me the feeling of the EW pulling the strings in the background

It definitely feels like that, since the very beginning.

[Macalaure]

Alright... it's midnight here... my brain capacity is slowly tending towards "black, green, wolves, lynch"...

I don't want to vote Lommy without reassessing her before. I think I'd like Legate around one more day. I find Kath creepy, but she can wait another day, too.

++Aganzir

I don't have anybody right now I can vote for with a really good conscience, I fear.

[Aganzir]

Why thank you Mac

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Sorry for getting a bit heated but Agan's points annoy me.

Don't apologize, we need more heat.

At least, I like reading heated arguments.

Oh, and Celuien seems to be posting more, so I'll have to change my assessment of her. I like that she sees the milk curdling eviiiiiil that is Cailin.

Diamond's just itching for me to choose her ( )

[Durelin]

Lommy is freakin' me out. Okay, so is Aganzir, but Agan seems genuinely frustrated and not worried about showing it anymore, which makes me feel a little better about her. Of course, she has been getting much more pressure than Lommy...which I don't really understand, actually. Mostly it's been because of Lommy - she certainly started it all.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Oh now suddenly that there are other people to vote for me I'm a suspect again! By the way did you notice how Lommy grew nastier and more confident when people actually started to agree with her?

I agree with you here. Looking over the posts leading up to her vote for you, she says this:

Originally Posted by Lommy

I'd love to vote Agan and I know Brinn and Volo could do that too, but that really isn't much as tp already has 4 votes...

And then a little bit later:

Originally Posted by Lommy

Anyway, like I just said, I'd love to vote Agan. I'd also like to vote Kath because she has been rather unconstructive toDay, will probably slip under the radar, could have applied to be the EW and would be a good wolf pick for the EW. Sadly, I might have to choose someone else...

She's practically begging for others to go for Aganzir. And then there's the "she'd sell her soul to be the EW." Another toss in to make people worried.

And then seems to vote once it looks like Brinn and Volo are with her, and after Legate says this:

Originally Posted by Legate

If it were to choose between her and some of the other two named, even she would do... but then... I really don't know. At least at the beginning I thought her innocentish. Lately probably other people's observations, or suspicions of her, influenced me as well in some way.

Lommy's good. Of course I don't doubt Aganzir's skills, either. Which is partly why Lommy feels worse.

Edit: Crossed with a lot.

Edit: #2 Really a lot.

We do still have almost an hour, right? Geez, people posting like we're down to the wire already...

[McCaber]

Finally a chance to read and post. This is an epic game if there ever was one. First thing: put me down with the people wanting tp and Roa to sort things out by themselves.

Now Legate I don't like, nor Cailin. But I have to think before I vote, or I might as well lynch myself.

EDIT: crossed with Di and Durelin

[Brinniel]

Greenie: Hasn't posted terribly much, but so far everything she said seems genuine to me.

Shasta: I wasn't too fond of his voting with not much explanation yesterDay, but toDay he seems better. His analyses are helpful and I think he's giving a clearer idea of his opinions. Not sure why others suspect him so much. One thing to note: Shasta's been known to get lynched early on and more often than not he's innocent.

Izzy: Taking a closer look, her vote for Roa really did come out of nowhere...and she still hasn't explained it. She seems to discuss the general rules more than about players which worries me, though I notice she's starting to focus more on phantom.

Lommy: As I mentioned yesterDay, I feel pretty good about her. I agree with some of her arguments and think what she's said so far is sensible and have no reason to suspect her. She's been rather quiet toDay which is unusual, but as she mentioned it's for RL reasons.

Nilp: Was absent yesterDay. ToDay he seems to be pretty helpful...he makes a good point about the hunter, though I disagree that we should disregard certain people for that reason. I've never played with Nilp before so I don't know his playing style, but so far nothing sets off alarms for me.

Eonwe: Still not happy with his vote yesterDay, but I'm thinking it's more likely a newbie error. While I wouldn't eliminate the possibility of him becoming a wolf in the future, I really kind of doubt the EW would've chosen him from the get-go...especially without knowing how he plays.

Kath: She's made some posts toDay, but not very many. Nothing about her screams suspicious or innocent. I really don't have an opinion on her yet.

Sally: Seems to be her usual self...very silly and chatty which people people sometimes interprete as suspicious, but I don't. I can't remember what she's like when she's actually a wolf...perhaps I ought to check. But right now she looks more likely innocent.

Mac: Haven't really discussed him before, but yesterDay I didn't really like the fact that he suspected those he disagreed with and also making that statement about Greenie pointing out Volo's "slip." And I don't know what to think about on row with Legate. But toDay I'm feeling better about him; he's making more sense, especially with the discussion about the Nerwen-bandwagon.

Rikae: Seems sensible enough and as others have mentioned, a lot more mellow than usual. Now, is that a good or bad thing? Right now, I think it means she's more likely innocent.

the phantom: Well, he's received a lot attention so far. While he's never worried me too much, there were some quotes of his I found a bit suspicious and I did question. His behaviour seemed slightly suspicious last night, but today all of his posts are a lot more reasonable and I'm starting to feel better about him.

Diamond: Not sure what to think about her vote, which helped seal Nerwen's fate. I know it was to save tp, but other than him being fun to have around, what reason did she have to save him? As for toDay, ehm...well... I'll be honest- Di's a big question mark right now.

Cailin: I mentioned yesterDay I found her a bit suspicious for her attacks on Nerwen and the fact she was eager to suspect someone for copying a misquote. As for toDay...I'm not sure what she's getting at with her first post looking for clues from the dead; there are no dreams so there shouldn't be clues. I also think she too quickly disregards the possibility that tp or Roa could be evil. I've still got my eye on this one.

Lhuna: Makes an argument against Mac which I don't find entirely unreasonable. She gives off the sweet and innocent vibe. But I have to be careful because last time I said that she turned out to be a wolf.

Durelin: Seems inquisitive (at least towards me) and what's the word...feisty. It's been awhile since I played with Durelin but I think that's just her style. But she does worry me a bit, because I notice as wolf she manages to slip under-the-radar rather easily.

Roa: I'm not sure what to think of her and the row with tp. But it really does worry me that she refuse to share thoughts on anyone else. As strongly as you feel about tp, you can't put all your egg in one basket. What if you're wrong?

Legate: Okay I admit, I'm kinda going back and forth on him. His vote yesterDay worries me, but not enough to bring him to the top of my suspicious list. ToDay he's being more reasonable. Someone mentioned he's being cautious as a reason to suspect him. I say that makes him seem more innocent to me....as I remember, an evil Legate is more bold than cautious.

Lalaith: Hmm...compared to others in the Nerwen bandwagon, her vote doesn't seem to come from nowhere. She's been very quiet due to RL reason, so I really can't make much of an opinion of her.

Aganzir: I suspected her yesterDay for already said reasons, and I continue to bring that suspicion into toDay. ToDay she's still reading way too much into things. On the top of my list.

Ka: Seems pretty genuine to me. I have no reason to suspect her.

morm: I really don't understand what he has against me...he doesn't explain it as anymore than a hunch. Yet at the same time, I don't find his persistence suspicious. I think it's more likely he's a innocent who's sorely mistaken.

Celuien: She doesn't post much, but votes without much reasoning to back that vote up. She somewhat worries me.

Gwath: His vote was random yesterDay, but he did later explain it. I started to feel alright about him, but then he votes for Lalaith...which I really don't understand. He mentioned her earlier, but said he'd watch her toDay. She's hardly posted, and I don't see what she's done that makes her the best lynching candidate.

McCaber: He's received some votes toDay, which I can understand considering yesterDay's random vote. But there were may other random votes yesterDay as well. McCaber hasn't shown up to defend himself, so don't really know if I want to lynch him.

-----------------

So...

Suspicious: Cailin, Aganzir

Borderline Suspicious: Izzy, Roa, Celuien, Gwath, McCaber

No Idea: Kath, Mac, phantom, Diamond, Lhuna, Durelin, Legate, Lalaith

Most Likely Innocent: Greenie, Shasta, Lommy, Nilp, Eonwe, Sally, Rikae, Ka, morm

One comment: I think it's a bad idea for people to ignore the Roa/phantom argument. While they may be just two ordos, it's certainly also possible that one (or both) are evil.

Yeesh...it took me two hours to write this up (including looking up old posts and reading new ones in between). But at least it gives me a better idea on my own thoughts...

EDIT: Oh, I didn't see all these last posts...didn't realise there was a new page...

[THE Ka]

Originally Posted by Durelin

I really want to ignore both Roa and phantom so they end up stuck just talking to each other. I don't want either of them to have the satisfaction of the other being lynched or of themselves being lynched.

Somewhat the same sentiments here…
Bandwagons are so tempting when you don’t have a clue on anyone besides faint suspicions, but the ones offered so far are really not worth it at all.

Not to start yet another, I’ve been mulling over Legate’s actions while I’ve been away. Don’t really want to vote for him, because I’d rather have a better case than to do such a thing rashly on the second Day, but his strange nature the past two Days has sparked my curiosity. Usually he only acts this way on the first Day, not nearly all the way through the second. Might just be playing WW with exams overhead (probably a similar why reason I’m so ‘serious’ right now and can’t think of anything besides them), but I’d rather ask why instead since I don’t like to assume.
Why are you acting more anxious than usual? Just curious.

Originally Posted by Agan

Maybe because you kept dropping ranger hints all the time since you wanted to have fun?

Probably… It’s interesting, because I always thought I’d have so much fun being a gifted for once, but it turned out to be a job with all of the protecting, picking the right person, ugh.
I have a soft spot for being an ordo. Must be the challenge and all the suspicion (though I feel completely lacking in all of that today. Just the challenge of not knowing squat about anyone.).

Lalaith, I don’t have a single bloody clue about. Due to that this is the first time playing with her, and that she is quite busy at the moment. I could go with others’ experiences with her, but that’s the easy way out and I’d feel more rotten than usual. Also, she’s my mother. Don’t know how well I feel about plugging out a vote and blind sighting her with no evidence. Then again, she might as well eat her little daughter in her sleep as well.
Mama I feel I hardly know you!

Originally Posted by Mac

If you want to catch a criminal, you need to think like a criminal.

Very true, but you have to remember that the criminals and innocents alike don’t care for it very much.
Get to know the person, apply different scenarios of roles, add competing elements and then assess. Doesn’t always work, but at least I can sleep somewhat at night.

Also unfortunately, it’s very easy for the ‘criminals’ to use that against you when they want to hide, so you need to mix it up.
… Now I’m going to watch you closely Mac, you’re giving the impression of wanting to be, controversial.

Originally Posted by Agan

Wolves just want to create havoc, and one way is to confuse people by saying something like this.

I remember gifted/innocent Lommy was far more pensive at times. Some take this as quietly hiding something, but she always rounded her arguments one way or another.
She does seem a bit different at times in this game, but I guess she could be hiding anything if she really wanted to, especially under a perceived nature of intent (or just by what we have come to know).That I can’t doubt in her ability. She’ll be difficult to access later on until there is less limelight with others in general.

... And if you're perpetuating that crutch of 'what we know or should guide to Lommy' then I'll never forgive you.

I have to leave for a shortwhile, but I might be back by DL. Hopefully with my mind made up about something.

[the phantom]

Roa for tp
Lhuna for Mac
Nilp for McCaber
Gwath for Lal
morm for Brin
Sally for McCaber
Cel for Cailin
Rikae for Legate
Shasta for Legate
Mac for Agan

McCaber- 2
Legate- 2
tp- 1
Mac- 1
Lal- 1
Brin- 1
Cailin- 1
Agan- 1

[Isabellkya]

In response to Brin, my vote was almost completely random. It was random out of the people whom I had an inkling of suspicion towards yesterDay - coupled with the fact that it was nearing deadline. Well what I thought was deadline, but alas I'd forgotten I'm in PDT not PST.

Pah. Just when I want to go away from phantom, I read one of his posts.. and he says something... mildly interesting.
..... "tear her post up like a piece of paper,' in reference to Roa.

I skimmed that lengthy post. I just want to chalk all of his (phantom's) shenanigans and theatrics to trying to do anything and everything, to be scried by both sides; though obviously not in the same Night.

Either way, I'm not entirely sure of Roa's and Phantom's innocent village intentions. Oh yes, they both have Village intentions, but I am doubting that they are for the good.

Originally Posted by Brin

Well, I suspected Aganzir yesterDay before Volo was a known innocent and I still suspect her toDay. I see nothing wrong with using a known innocent's quote to support my feelings about another player. Of course, Volo could easily be wrong with her, but as I do suspect Aganzir I think he may be onto something...

All well and good, but you shouldn't be using the "known innocent" status to try and add weight to your suspicions and arguments. A known-dead innocent does not equal all knowing.


X'd since the end of Page 11. Dear me, every time I think I'm caught up, another page and a half pops up.

[Durelin]

Soooo...any possibility of '(The) Durinator' sticking?

[Diamond18]

An imagined exchange:

Nogrod: "What would like for your birthday this year, Lommy dear?"
Lommy: "A pony!"
Nogrod: "Now dear, you know we can't afford a pony."
Lommy: "Then I want to be the evil wizard!"
Nogrod: "Alright, sweetheart."
Lommy: "Yay! I'm gonna grind Agan's bones up and make her into bread, mwah ha ha!"



As tongue-in-cheek as that is, the whole Lommy-Lom/Aganzir back and forth does increase my notion of Lommy as a shady she pen... wait. But you get the idea.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by tp

I'd much rather see a continuation of the Lommy versus Agan battle. Or it would also be fine to see Roa lynched since the EW might have given her "get TP lynched so we don't have to waste a kill/scry on him" instructions.

I think this quote by the phantom quite much summarises the Day. Phantom and Roa are quarreling, as are Lommy and Agan. I don't like the way personal arguements between pairs are drawing the village's (erm... I mean, at least my) attention. I must confess I still haven't got a clue of this game. I haven't been quite able to read anyone, nor do I have the time to do so now.

I'll try my best, anyway.

Izzy, McCaber, Celuien, Lalaith, morm: under the radar

Kath, Brinn, Rikae, Durelin: innocentish

the phantom: either frustrated ordo, wolf or EW (at the moment I'm most inclined to think the first..)

Roa: innocent?

Lommy, Cailín, Di, Sally: can't say.

Gwath: looming between suspicious and harmless.

Shasta: contributing more than usual, innocentish

Agan: I guess she, too, is but a little frustrated ordo, but I wouldn't be surprised to find her a wolf or even the EW..

Mac, Legate: I don't know what to make of either of these guys, either... Both could be just anything.

My apologies for the ones I forgot as there's bound to be those... I don't yet know who to vote but I have to do it very very soon because Lommy still feels the need to post.. Aieee! I think my toDay's vote will go to either some inactive submarine (McCaber, Izzie or morm?) or to someone whose death might reveal something (tp?).


EDIT: x-ed since Agan

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I think my toDay's vote will go to either some inactive submarine (McCaber, Izzie or morm?) or to someone whose death might reveal something (tp?).

Read my points about Lommy! She is a wolf.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Durelin

Soooo...any possibility of '(The) Durinator' sticking?

Put it in your signature. That will help.

[Brinniel]

Hmm...I'm tired of hearing people say "at least one of these two are evil" and "if this person's evil the other one has to be evil"

Of course it's possible that the wolves know each other, or one's a wolf and one's the EW. But it's also possible that the wolves don't know each other and are attacking each other (or a wolf's attacking the EW). We can't suspect or disregard someone solely based on how they treated someone who has been proven innocent or guilty...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

So this was the "short while". Okay.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I think I already answered this in that same post, but anyway... We look for a connection between wolves and the EW by lynching a wolf, then analysing reasons why an EW would scry that player and who that possibly could be. That's the best way I can think of doing it...other than by suspicious behaviour.

Ah, so that! Well, how inventive I thought you had something more special in mind. Of course then. All right.

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Why the evil team picked Kitanna is beyond me. I was thinking she'd be a good candidate to be added to the evil team last Night.

Why do you think so, if I may ask?

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

That quoted post involving Leggie stands out because it gives me the strong feeling of you trying to get into someone's good side (by thanking him for agreeing with you and offering apologies for disagreeing with him).

Although this issue concerns me, I don't see it the way you do; I see the way you put it somewhat flawed. He was actually doing the opposite, or that was the outcome: he thanked me, but quite rudely attacked me after that - or that was my feeling. So not the effect you describe, quite the opposite, if I'm to speak for myself.
The fact that I took it rather in the offensive way does not mean he did not mean it the way you say, however, I think it's actually not like that and that he really did NOT mean it the way you say.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Legate feels off, and I get the feeling he is trying to appear that way, somehow. I don't think he would do that innocently.

What do you mean by that?

Originally Posted by Nilpaurion Felagund

Volo voted for Agan; suspected Legate, Greenie, Sally (mildly), tp (at first) Celuien, and Cailín; and defended tp and Agan (at first).

So morm, Agan, and Legate are probably innocent. (Or they are controlled by a very bold EW--or perhaps even one of them is! But I'll stick with what I said first.)

Do you think it would be so easy? Well, it may have something to it, but I won't put it as clear way as you do. "Inclined not to do so", the EW will be, but then, even if some of the Wolves were one of those named, he would not need to care that much. Although I appreciate the idea going this way, it's not bulletproof.

Originally Posted by THE Ka

I think we have games mixed up. I’m referring to when you were a mod of the gladiator-like game (where three of us at a time would compete, then the game would revert back to a normal ‘village’ setup), y’know, “Taliesin of Nothing”. I was a protector, and unfortunately a very obvious one not only to wolves, but others spotted as well.
Now, in the fellowship-setup, yes I was a very bad wizard, but I felt like mother theresa all the same and to everyone else (except maybe Nogrod).

Oh, okay then. Because A) my LAST game (and you said last) was really the Fellowship of Saruman, and B) the game with the arena, not only was before the Saruman game, but it was Volo's game. I only wrote two narrations for that - when I was already out of the game. All right, so that's nothing. Let's forget that.

Originally Posted by Durelin

Isabel's post bothers me. Completely useless while looking useful. Similar to Nilp, she talks about the village's situation as dire. She doesn't really say anything about anyone, but casts a general sort of suspicion over the "sillyness." All very boring and silly. I think she's a much better submarine than McCaber, and he bothers me, too.

Yes, that's actually well said. I had no particular problems with her yesterDay, but the more I think of her, the more I dislike her, for being really such a submarine. It's not much more other than that, but it is somewhat unnerving.

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I would like to vote for either tp or Roa. But I can't decide which one is the wolf, so I am going to hold off casting judgement regarding that particular brawl until tomorrow.

He's odd, he's odd, he's odd. What was that what you replied to someone yesterDay? Was it you, not? Someone said "I will tell you tomorrow" - yes, that was Mr._____ I think - and you said something like "will that be before or after you kill these people?" Or something around these lines. Now look what you do.

Originally Posted by Cailín

Are you for real, Gwathagor? What makes it certain that one has to be a wolf? The fact that they are arguing? That you can't decide whose side you are on, yet whoever ends up less persuasive to you is a wolf, is really quite odd reasoning.

For Gwath, it's not that unusual reasoning, I'd say. He may be wrong (or may not), but I don't think this way of thinking is too odd for him. But, I wonder if you are not a little too jumpy for that? Isn't it that you are building up something here..?

Originally Posted by A Little Green

What comes to Lommy being quiet, well, she studied for some hours, then went off to see her friends, and is going to a concert in the evening. She'll be back well before the DL, I think..

Good, I was just about to worry what's up since she's quiet - that will be veeery unusual and it really started to make me wonder...

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

#71 - More in-character. Thinks Agan is clever, tells Sally to vote Phantom while saying he probably will not... This sets my alarms ringing, for some reason.

Hey hey! A moment, here. I am not telling her to vote the phantom. She voted him, and I, IN-ROLE (as her boyfriend and phantom's business partner!) said that I won't hold grudge against her if she votes (i.e. that I am not going to break up with her because of that. She technically asked that herself). So don't mix it with the game! I think that was clear enough that it was in-character.

Originally Posted by Shasta (cont'd)

#171 - ...I really don't know what to make of this post. Legate, help me out?

As soon as I have time, I'm gonna read what it was and help you out, if possible. Noting down on my schedule, after I finish this reading.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

At the moment, and this is subject to and in fact probably will change, I'm leaning toward voting Cabbie due to his....well, due to nothing; that's the problem. He's suspicious based on the fact that he's not suspicious. Does that make sense? Didn't think so.

You are right, it does not. Could you please elaborate a little when you are back?!?!!?

(As you can see, aside from exclamation marks, I can use question marks, too.)

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

2. Post #71 - Early on, Phantom was gaining votes more than anyone else. Legate seemed to be encouraging Sally to vote for Phantom, while being able himself to stay away.

Here he says that again! That's nonsense... just read it!

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

Does beautifully = truthfully without hidden agendas?

Bah, I'm slowly getting nowhere in finishing my re-reading. Too much multi-tasking.

X'd with Cailin and Aganzir.

Like I said, Izzy does nothing and then out of the blue posts things like this (which are also nothing, but with accusing edge to it as a bonus). (And what more, the number of people she X-ed with only proves that she is around, only is not posting... which, in this village, is in certain aspect a virtue, right, but then - one would expect you to post at least something more concrete when you have so much time on your hands...)

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Thanks for making my reading process take even more time because after the ending I had to check if there were any "l"'s involved in the "back"s...

You're welcome.


I see this was shorter than usual. (Or was it...)

***
I really don't know whom to vote. There's too much people. And lots of them can be both ways, if you get my meaning.

I more or less like Nilp. I feel also somewhat good about Durelin, whom I think would have been more chaotic and more evil than she looks now. Isabell does very little to actually involve into things, even to those which concern her.
I can't help it: Aganzir makes sense. I really think she IS innocent. Well, maybe.
And I like Lommy. Otherwise, Lhuna seems odd. Roa and Mr._____ are too much for me to see into. I keep mistaking Cailín for Celuien, but I know I am somewhat worried about Cailín (she's the one with the sand-sea looking avvie, and not the frog, right). The third of them is Di - also somewhat worried, but I can't put my finger on it, would have to look at her more deeply. I simply believe I did not play with these three a lot, I think not with all and only for short times, so don't have much idea about them, but I can't think well of at least one of them being a baddie. Then there are some I omitted now, but whom I mentioned already before; with them it stays more or less the way I said before.

Otherwise, we shal see.

EDIT: Darn it, x-ed since some bottom of the previous page...

[Rikae]

So, Lily, you think everybody is innocentish?

EDIT: X'd since Lily.

[Kath]

... I have absolutely no idea where those intervening hours just went. This is the trouble with being home and having Guitar Hero again.

Anyway, I have to be up horribly early in order to sort out some placement stuff so it's voting time.

Now, from looking at some of yesterDay in depth and at least reading the rest of it I had Agan, Durelin, Lommy and Mac on my 'hmm' list. So I'll have a quick look at what they were up to toDay and then vote.

Agan - was a little confused about whether Volo had a dream. Actually, lack of knowledge about the rules makes me think innocent more as if she were a wolf (whether original or later turned) she'd probably have checked that out. Then again, she'd be EW side not GW, so might not look at GW side rules. Finds Brinn, Legate and Lommy suspicious. Do you know, the more I read from thus Day the more innocent I'm finding her. She has a very good, sensible post on page 9 that is making me feel far more secure about her. Picks up Greenie. I saw something suspicious in her earlier, the Volo typo thing. Looks at Lommy too, who has apparently suddenly started using RL knowledge to try and peg her. Suspicious? I wouldn't say so. Use anything you can to try and figure people out! But that post turned me round on Agan again, I don't know why, I think the tone of it put my back up.

Durelin - suspicion of Agan and Lommy, and particularly the way they interacted with each other. Finds the rule that says 'no dream'. Thinks Lommy planted suspicion of Agan ... possibly a good point, we'll see about that when I get to Lommy. Starts to build a case against Lommy. Doesn't like those who are currently flying under the radar, like Izzy and McCaber. Well, fair enough, but with so many people in the village if you aren't phantom, Roa or that noisy you're going to be considered under the radar anyway. I get not liking them for just posting in character, bugs me too. Mentions Izzy did everything Roa did but ended up voting for her ... fair point if it's true. Is still building that case against Lommy a little bit at a time.

Lommy - do you know, I've just rethought this. If Lommy were the EW or a wolf or, well, anything, I really don't think she'd be this ... not here. I'm going to take her off the list, for now at least.

Mac - thinks Nerwen's death was pointless, also doesn't get Kitanna's death. Some suspicion of Lhuna for having vague suspicions as well as suspecting Eonwe with silly reasoning. Gets all his questions of Lhuna answered and seems to give up on that idea, he seemed quite stumped by her rational explanation. Says the Nerwen bandwagon makes phantom look evil (but then so does everything) but argues himself out of this by saying phantom is unlikely to play as he is if he is the EW. Suspicion of Agan, for being too laid back. This game truly is impossible. Don't overreact and you're labelled as a careful wolf, overreact and you're labelled as a defensive wolf. Mildly useless list of who he suspects.

I'm not entirely done (still a whole flipping page to go! Can't you people talk less?) but I have to go. I've been at this too long already. So, I don't like Mac here. He tried to fight against Lhuna but when she gave him nothing he gave up and went after someone else. Everyone has gone after Agan. Is that because there's something there or is someone making her a very effective scapegoat? I can't make my mind up on her. I read one post and she strikes me as innocent, the very next post she looks suspicious. I don't think I could happily vote Durelin unless I'd looked at Lommy as the two of them seem rather closely linked. Therefore:

++MAC

[Cailín]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Nerwen: A lot of people seem to find her suspicious. I admit I was trying to see her as a possible candidate, but I can't find a good enough reason to vote her...

Cailin:

I don't like the idea she'd consider voting someone for copying a misquote. It's a big game and people are unintentionally going to make mistakes. I know I'd probably make the same mistake as Ka. I also don't really like how she so suddenly jumps on Nerwen.

Brinniel, you posted this yesterday, and I thought it was a bit silly at the time, but now that you're still following these thoughts in your suspicions today, I think I must object.

After hearing what THE Ka said, I find her to be sincere. It was a mistake. However, it's far from a bad idea to suspect someone for this. If an innocent person wishes to build a case against someone, they have to investigate the primary sources. If a wolf wants to do it, just to appear to be doing something, he/she can lazily copy someone else's work -- even if that work is faulty. What happened was perfectly suspicious, though I later found myself trusting Ka.

About Nerwen: what do you mean I jumped on her? That is not how our argument started at all.

Posting more in a minute...

[the phantom]

Roa for tp
Lhuna for Mac
Nilp for McCaber
Gwath for Lal
morm for Brin
Sally for McCaber
Cel for Cailin
Rikae for Legate
Shasta for Legate
Mac for Agan
Kath for Mac

McCaber- 2
Legate- 2
Mac- 2
tp- 1
Lal- 1
Brin- 1
Cailin- 1
Agan- 1

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

*whispers to himself, looking at Aganzir* Now I recall why I liked her... Oh my. She makes sense. She was always clever. Only she had to become such a hateful person...

Anyway, I guess I'm going to be off for a short while... but will return soon to see what's happened.

Sally, my dear, feel free to vote for Phantom, I am not going to blame you for that... although I probably won't stand by you in this decision, you must understand he has been my friend and business partner for too long... not to mention he is my cousin (well who isn't, right... apart from you maybe...). But as I said, at least for now, I won't even suspect him that much. I think he has always been like that...

Will be back.

It didn't seem very clear to me, Legate. It looks like an "I'm leaving" post, with a bit of support for Phantom thrown in, but by "feel free to vote", you seem to be subtly encouraging Sally. I suppose I could be delving a little too in-depth, but it's worth an eyebrow-raise, surely?

[Cailín]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

All well and good, but you shouldn't be using the "known innocent" status to try and add weight to your suspicions and arguments. A known-dead innocent does not equal all knowing.

A good point; unfortunately one which must be made in every werewolf game.

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Legate

I feel also somewhat good about Durelin, whom I think would have been more chaotic and more evil than she looks now.

I dunno, Di...that looks like pretty good sig material, too...

So am I True Neutral, or maybe even Neutral Good?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Phantom, are you going to post anything more of substance, or are you confining yourself to vote counts?

Edit: Dury, you look more Chaotic Neutral to me.

[the phantom]

Okay, here's where I stand on the leaders.

I don't want to lynch Legate. Like I said I've been flip-flopping on him in my mind, and right now I'm firmly seeing him as innocent. I think maybe I'm getting a feeling for him at last.

I don't want to lynch Mac either. In a couple of other games I've been able to get a decent read on him, so I don't feel the need to kill him to discover what he is.

McCaber- I don't have much of a feeling for him, so I'd prefer him above the other two leaders.

Agan might be the best choice. I'm inclined to trust Lommy's gut which I gather has been screaming "guilty" since the beginning. But I hate to lose the entertainment.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Cailin

About Nerwen: what do you mean I jumped on her? That is not how our argument started at all.

From this quote:

This is a very suspicious first post. Nerwen takes a long time to do nothing but criticise other people's ideas and post signs indicating potential wolvish behaviour. She's also giving wolves a nice guide on how not to act. I can't see what she hopes to achieve with this, other than to look helpful and serious in the eyes of the casual reader.

Maybe you didn't see it as jumping on her at the time, but that's how I interpreted it.

[Brinniel]

My voting candidates are same as yesterDay.

Aganzir or Cailin.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by THE Ka

Not to start yet another, I’ve been mulling over Legate’s actions while I’ve been away. Don’t really want to vote for him, because I’d rather have a better case than to do such a thing rashly on the second Day, but his strange nature the past two Days has sparked my curiosity. Usually he only acts this way on the first Day, not nearly all the way through the second. Might just be playing WW with exams overhead (probably a similar why reason I’m so ‘serious’ right now and can’t think of anything besides them), but I’d rather ask why instead since I don’t like to assume.
Why are you acting more anxious than usual? Just curious.

May be a combination of several factors. Partially it may be the mood conjured by the exams (the time of relief after one completed with the anxiety of the view of other coming soon), and if you say I act more like first day, it may be also because I feel still like the first day - not very much idea of what's going on, who may be who; the more in such a big village. I can't concentrate on all - there are LOTS of people I hardly even noticed, or, noticed but could not reflect upon... and such. Something like that, probably.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

It didn't seem very clear to me, Legate. It looks like an "I'm leaving" post, with a bit of support for Phantom thrown in, but by "feel free to vote", you seem to be subtly encouraging Sally. I suppose I could be delving a little too in-depth, but it's worth an eyebrow-raise, surely?

No, it isn't. The statement "feel free to vote" is from both sides outlined by the words "Sally, my dear," and "I am not going to blame you for that". It's an, how do you call that gramatically, inserted sentence.

[Thinlómien]

Aaaaaaaaaarghhhhhhhhhh! Aganzir is making a futile and totally stupid case against me and then turning confident I'm a wolf or something like that and I don't really have time to answer her nonsense as Greenie had to post too and I have to start thinking who I'll vote! If I'm stilla live toMorrow there will be a proper self-defense, but for now I will sum it up as: Agan tries to interpret everything I say in a bad light and deliberatedly misrepresents me, which does not make me one little bit more trusting of her.

Now, as for who to vote, tp and Agan are the only ones who really stand out for me. There are also others I'm vahguely feeling bad about - Cailín, Lalaith, McCaber and Mac, but I'm very aware that apart from Cailín, these are mostly based on other people's suspicions. I've really had too little time to think toDay. I'm a bit at loss with the whole game aargh....


edit: xed with everybody after Kath

[the phantom]

The other candidates-

I have no clue about Cailin. I haven't devoted a read-through to her yet.

I've been a WW with Lal before, so I feel like maybe I can get a feel from her as the village progresses.

Brin- I've already said before that I'm pretty confident about her innocence.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Agan might be the best choice. I'm inclined to trust Lommy's gut which I gather has been screaming "guilty" since the beginning. But I hate to lose the entertainment.

Inclined to trust Lommy?? Oh please this is what I mean when saying she uses RL knowledge wrong. Have you considered the possibility that's just what she wants you to do?

[Thinlómien]

Phantom Stop Trusting My Judgement On Agan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


EDIT: xed with those two

[Cailín]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

From this quote:

This is a very suspicious first post. Nerwen takes a long time to do nothing but criticise other people's ideas and post signs indicating potential wolvish behaviour. She's also giving wolves a nice guide on how not to act. I can't see what she hopes to achieve with this, other than to look helpful and serious in the eyes of the casual reader.

Maybe you didn't see it as jumping on her at the time, but that's how I interpreted it.

Brinn, I barely even know how to respond to this. You're simply choosing one side of the coin. Someone else could just as well say that Nerwen jumped on me. You'd both be equally correct.

But that's not what happened. We cross-posted our suspicions of each other (Nerwen was actually first) and our argument sprang forth thence.

Can you see this? Because if you can't then your single-mindedness is quite worrying.