Werewolf LIII: The Republic

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

What a meanie, you always want me dead. And you're right you always suspect me, and I often suspect you....I do think it's because we just don't agree on each other's posting styles.
As much as you don't like quote posts, I made them because it's easier for me to see all the information right there rather than search through 30-something pages. I made comments afterward...I don't know how much longer you want those comments to be. Is there some sort of standard you have? I'm not Nogrod or Legate...who both make posts long enough to write a book.

I know that you did comment on some of the quotes, but we are talking about 1 comment for every 3 quotes or something like that and there is little conclution connected to them.

I would be very happy indeed if you at one point only chose the quotes you needed for your post, the way you do things now just seem very mechanic. Also I belive that we need to be a bit selective about what we bring forth, as a bombardment of unnecessary information will just mean that we cannot see the forrest for the trees.

I do see how your posts can be a practical tool for some people, but to me it just seems like you are trying to win people over by doing alot of work and very little analysing.

EDIT: Cross Posted with Green

[A Little Green]

Looking at Sally...

Originally Posted by Nog on Day 1

Sally - very hard nut to crack but maybe more innocentish because of the level of her light-heartedness (she was a bit more focused the last time she was a wolf)

This seems very diplomatic, especially considering that it's his first mention of her in the game. His later mentions of her could go either way and nothing special popped out.

Originally Posted by Ka on Day 2

Though, if she was a wolf this time, she either is taking the role of a lurker, or is up to something else which I have no clue what and why. Or, she’s innocent, and just busy.

I think it's interesting how Ka here ignores the possibility of Sally being both busy and wolf.. I can't decide whether it's intentional or not. Hmmm...

Overall, looking at the wolves' quotes, I think it's interesting how little they talk about Sally in general. No, those two quotes above are not the only ones, of course, they are just two that caught my eye, but the wolves do speak of her quite little... (Of course this might be just due to reading the posts with the assumption that Sally is guilty.)

Originally Posted by Sally

Actually, I'm pretty sure I have made a case against Nerwen. Not all in one post, granted, but I've said things about her here and there, before she started suspecting me, so it's not like I just suddenly put her on my suspicion list.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Sally, all I can recollect is that you echoed morm's suspicion of me. Now, a number of people– including a known innocent– agreed with his points on me at the time– but you're the only one who still heavily suspects me now that we know morm was a wolf. Logically, you can only be sincere about this if you think there's a case for it being a wolf-on-wolf ploy. Therefore you must state this case.

This exchange I find very interesting. Sally's tone is disturbing me, I can't phrase it any clearer, but that passage is the one that worries me most. It's sort of apologetic.. no, that's not quite the word, my English sucks today it seems. Whatever. As for Nerwen's reply, it's a very good point and I think Sally should answer it - of course she might well have other reasons for suspecting Nerwen, but yeah. I'd like to hear them.

Hmmm. The material I looked at (ie. Brinn's quotes & Sally's posts toDay) didn't provide me with as much clarity as I would have wished. Sally's status remains "leaning suspicious".

Anyone around?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I just had a look at most Gwath's posts (exept the very first) and the vast majority is simply one-liners or very very short, of course that need not be bad. The problem is that Gwath seems always to be defending him self or commenting on something, but never comes up with a suspicion. . .exept of course when he did not like Eonwe's list of suspects.

There is of course things that points to his innocents, especially the fact that he thought he could vote for him self. . . The wolves would probably have talked about voting, but who is to say if they talked about the technicalitys of voting? I think it is plausible they only discussed if they should vote for each other or not.

EDIT: Cross posted with En Lille Grøn (En Smule Grøn?)

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Rune

I know that you did comment on some of the quotes, but we are talking about 1 comment for every 3 quotes or something like that and there is little conclution connected to them.

I know within the long post I didn't give much comment, but I dedicated a separate post providing my thoughts on all the players after those posts, based on the quotes. And that's still not enough?

Originally Posted by Rune

I would be very happy indeed if you at one point only chose the quotes you needed for your post, the way you do things now just seem very mechanic. Also I belive that we need to be a bit selective about what we bring forth, as a bombardment of unnecessary information will just mean that we cannot see the forrest for the trees.

Then that would defeat the whole purpose of gathering info about who said what about one another. This is something I did more for me than anything...to prevent myself from tearing out my hair in frustration as I sift through 1500 posts each time I want to find a certain quote.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I COULD BE PERSUADED TO LYNCH TODAY:
Gwathagor - I wouldn't be surprised if he was the last wolf, though he isn't necessarily my top suspect. Does not seem innocentish but not especially wolvish either.

If I was a wolf, would I have said this:

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I probably wouldn't have voted for The KA. What's the reasoning behind that vote? Lots of us have been super quiet so far, so why KA?

right after the reps had just decided to lynch her?

[Thinlómien]

Alright-y, I'm here too, finally.

Originally Posted by tp

Kath- She claimed to not know the Rep rules during Day 1 (she thought only Reps could post the second half). Would a KathWolf bluff something RL like that?

A wolf could very well be genuinely confused about rep rules on Day1. I find that far more probable than that a wolf would be genuinely confused about ranger rules on Day2.

Originally Posted by tp

Nerwen- Her failure to cast a Day 1 vote and the fact that she claimed not to know the rules makes her look fairly clean. I mean- she thought there was a Ranger.

Nerwen always fails to vote on Day1, whatever her role.

I think sally seems a bit too apologetic, nervous and nice. If she's the last wolf that's understandble as there's quite a lot of pressure on her. On the other hand, she has said she's really stressed and that may affect her behaviour, so her nervousness doesn't necessarily mean anything.

It's funny, I don't suspect Rune at all, even though I have absolutely no reason to trust him. He baffles me a little by differing in his opinions from the rest of the village. That's nicely refreshing. (But... I'm wondering - do I recall correctly that that has been the trademark of a wolvish Rune actually? Hmmm... I have to keep an eye on him.) I can't really bring myself to distrust Brinn either... I guess it's just gut-feeling, then. And as for Nerwen, I feel my non-suspicion of her is just a bit more reasonable.

The others I suspect to some degree. Sally the most. Greenie seems kind of genuine, but I can so very well see her as a bold wolf. Rune's suspicion of Gwath strikes me as misguided, I think Gwath is probably an ordo... but I probably think that just because he's flown completely under my radar. I'm really unsure what to think of Kath and Ilya.

As for Gil, I think this pretty much sums it up:

Originally Posted by Kath

Actually given that there WAS a kill last Night I'm thinking it's unlikely he is a wolf.

Of course, the moddesses could just have picked his kill for him, but that would be totally unfair...

As for sally's eagerness to lynch Gil, it is indeed a bit weird. Why couldn't it have waited? The numbers favour us at the moment, so we could have afforded a double lynch, yes. But why make it if the subject is probably innocent? Why not wait and see a few Days? Like now Kath has provided us with a point that almost proves Gil's innocence. But an evil sally could have wanted to reduce the number of the innocents, for now that she has been left alone, she will have to walk a rocky path to win. Also, although she explained it, her enthusiasm to take part in the lynch of morm and Nog looks a bit questionable indeed... I don't think it's a bad idea to lynch her toDay, as we have plenty of Days to try. And honestly, I think if we don't lynch sally sooner, she will become an enigma later.

Originally Posted by sally

I trust Lommie the most but at the same time I know that killing me will do no good, so why elect someone who won't help the village win the game (at least with this vote)? Know what I'm saying?

I understand the sentiment perfectly, but I think an innocent sally could ("could", not "would") have voted me nevertheless, which in turn could have made me trust her more. This being like this, sally just strikes me as more nervous than before. Also, she could have simply said "Lommy will vote me and I don't want to die so I'll vote someone else" but now she masks it as "lynching me won't profit the village", which makes me raise eyebrows. Because, really, we can very well afford losing an ordo right now.

Originally Posted by Brinn

And Kath looks more innocent because unless she didn't get the Nightly PMs, I don't see how she could miss Legate's death without bluffing (and I don't think she would).

Oh, that's true. However, her PM inbox could just have been full so that she wouldn't have received the wolf PMs.... so we can't rule her out either.

Originally Posted by tp

Green- When she argues with people and takes offense and whatnot, it seems genuine. I like her lists, and choosing morm two days in a row- surely as a WW she'd be scared to do that.

Greenie was a bold wolf in her very first game, so I wouldn't put anything past her.


edit: xed with Gwath

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Why is it we would want to lynch Gil in a few days?
It would not like having to wonder about him when we are under pressure, I would rather leave him be or get him out of the way at once.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I forgot to say that I will be leaving now. . .I am going to play some football with my father, but I will be back in a few hours.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Why is it we would want to lynch Gil in a few days?
It would not like having to wonder about him when we are under pressure, I would rather leave him be or get him out of the way at once.

I would think there would have been enough to think about in the double-lynch yesterDay. Also - granted, this did not occur to me either, so I can hardly blame sally for not thinking about it - it was wise to wait and see if there's a kill at all.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Gwathy

If I was a wolf, would I have said this:

right after the reps had just decided to lynch her?

I can't see why not.

Nevertheless, at the moment I feel most comfortable with voting

++ lynch Sally

since she is my top suspect at the moment.

This is what we call awful politicians betraying their voters... (Seriously though, I never promised not to try and lynch the ones who voted me as rep. Hah.)

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

As for sally's eagerness to lynch Gil, it is indeed a bit weird. Why couldn't it have waited? The numbers favour us at the moment, so we could have afforded a double lynch, yes. But why make it if the subject is probably innocent? Why not wait and see a few Days?

But why would a wolf-sally want to get rid of Gil in particular? Wouldn't she be more likely to try to get rid of somebody more involved? Gil isn't a threat to anybody at this point.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

But why would a wolf-sally want to get rid of Gil in particular? Wouldn't she be more likely to try to get rid of somebody more involved? Gil isn't a threat to anybody at this point.

He's a threat in numbers, one more innocent to get out of her way. Also, suggesting triple lynch with anybody else but Gil as the third lynchee would have been a so-called political suicide...

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

He's a threat in numbers, one more innocent to get out of her way. Also, suggesting triple lynch with anybody else but Gil as the third lynchee would have been a so-called political suicide...

So you think that she was possibly taking advantage of the situation to try to get rid of an innocent who is otherwise unlikely to be lynched? I guess that makes sense.

[the phantom]

Real quickly- I wouldn't be too concerned about Sally voicing a desire to lynch a likely innocent Gil. I've been tempted too. Think of this- what if we just leave him around and then we get down to the final day, when there are a total of three villagers left. In a normal game two Ordos can lynch one WW. But in this game, only Reps can lynch. Which means when there are only two Ordos the WW can just sit on his Rep vote and the game is over. So, Gil or not, our last chance will be the day before.

So if we subtract an innocent Gil, that would put the day before at one WW and three Ordos, which is just fine. So Gil doesn't help the tally at all. Keeping him around does not add an extra day of life to the village.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I think sally seems a bit too apologetic, nervous and nice. If she's the last wolf that's understandble as there's quite a lot of pressure on her. On the other hand, she has said she's really stressed and that may affect her behaviour, so her nervousness doesn't necessarily mean anything.

It's funny, I don't suspect Rune at all, even though I have absolutely no reason to trust him. He baffles me a little by differing in his opinions from the rest of the village. That's nicely refreshing. (But... I'm wondering - do I recall correctly that that has been the trademark of a wolvish Rune actually? Hmmm... I have to keep an eye on him.) I can't really bring myself to distrust Brinn either... I guess it's just gut-feeling, then. And as for Nerwen, I feel my non-suspicion of her is just a bit more reasonable.

The others I suspect to some degree. Sally the most. Greenie seems kind of genuine, but I can so very well see her as a bold wolf. Rune's suspicion of Gwath strikes me as misguided, I think Gwath is probably an ordo... but I probably think that just because he's flown completely under my radar. I'm really unsure what to think of Kath and Ilya.

As for Gil, I think this pretty much sums it up:

Of course, the moddesses could just have picked his kill for him, but that would be totally unfair...

As for sally's eagerness to lynch Gil, it is indeed a bit weird. Why couldn't it have waited? The numbers favour us at the moment, so we could have afforded a double lynch, yes. But why make it if the subject is probably innocent? Why not wait and see a few Days? Like now Kath has provided us with a point that almost proves Gil's innocence. But an evil sally could have wanted to reduce the number of the innocents, for now that she has been left alone, she will have to walk a rocky path to win. Also, although she explained it, her enthusiasm to take part in the lynch of morm and Nog looks a bit questionable indeed... I don't think it's a bad idea to lynch her toDay, as we have plenty of Days to try. And honestly, I think if we don't lynch sally sooner, she will become an enigma later.

I understand the sentiment perfectly, but I think an innocent sally could ("could", not "would") have voted me nevertheless, which in turn could have made me trust her more. This being like this, sally just strikes me as more nervous than before. Also, she could have simply said "Lommy will vote me and I don't want to die so I'll vote someone else" but now she masks it as "lynching me won't profit the village", which makes me raise eyebrows. Because, really, we can very well afford losing an ordo right now.

Oh, that's true. However, her PM inbox could just have been full so that she wouldn't have received the wolf PMs.... so we can't rule her out either.

Greenie was a bold wolf in her very first game, so I wouldn't put anything past her.


edit: xed with Gwath

I cut of the start of the post as it did not strike me as odd. . .

Anyways Lommy, I find it slightly disturbing the way you change your opinion so fast. I thought you did not suspect me at all, only that you thought my case against Gwathagor was "misguided", but now me and him are your top suspects and Greenie has totaly disapeared from your list of suspects.

Frankly that makes very little sense and I am looking forward to the explanation, I could have understood it if it was my case against Gwath that had made you suspicous, but surely it cannot be the case since he is your top suspect as well.

I won't judge you on this alone as it is very easy to "see" a werewolf when you yourself is their target, but it does seem like you are going for the easy kills. Kath, Brinn, Greenie and Ilya would be very hard to get lynched, me and Nerwen less so and Gwath is the most likely lynch candidate of all.

Of course you can never suest Gil as you wanted Sally lynched for that very reason, in genneral your whole reasoning about why wolves would kill Gil made little sense.
-------------------------

Anyways I am under a lot of time pressiure right now, I need to get this paper about English Trade Unions in the 1800's done. . . If I don't I will fail my class as my examination is based on it.

I will be at the computer most of the day, but I won't have time to check in that often.

sorry

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Oh I forgot to add:

I feel it is about time I became a representative!

[Thinlómien]

Rune - my change of mind is simply because I've been thinking about things and because some of my feelings have changed. I cannot explain it any better.

If I was the last wolf, I can't see any benefit for me in going for the easy targets intentionally. I would have no fellows who could get lynched, and I'm currently if not the most trusted person in this village, then at least one of them, and thus I wouldn't probably be worried of getting myself lynched either. In fact, a sudden change of mind would be the last thing I would do, as it might arouse suspicions (like it just did).

(Anyway, I think we two are really hopeless, I think everytime one of us starts suspecting the other the suspicions is immediately returned. Reminds me of our very first ww game, awww. )