TIG: LXV - Our fate lies with...them?

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Hints of the type phantom described are certainly a good thing, but the type Sally suggests are riskier (which has me uneasy about Sally). Under certain circumstances phantom-hints can even amount to the next best thing to proof . Surely you can figure those circumstances out for yourselves, so I have no need to explain them.

Now, as for the phantom deadline, to sum up what I said earlier: I don't think it'll go over big, since a lot of people consider last-minute voting the best part of the game. Don't expect me to abide by it.

Well you know me, dear. And I don't mean obvious hints, because I don't want to get the gifteds killed. Again, I don't disagree on any particular point of the argument, just wanted to make sure everthing was considered because, as I mentioned, some people play differently and if we're all looking around for a code (or if someone points out a code) we could miss something fairly obvious or we could get trapped by a wolf. But I don't feel like wasting more time talking about it, because there's another matter to waste our time on apparently....(Yes, that's mostly sarcasm, although it seems strangly appropriate....)

Oh, and it's not going to happen. It'd be lovely on my (and poor Boro and Wilwa's) nerves but most people aren't going to vote early, as much as I think it's a rather good idea.

Originally Posted by Hakon

I am now here. I overslept an hour and well yea. I have now caught up by reading through all the pages. I haven an idea on how to start figuring out who the wolves are. Boro told us in the admin thread that some of the roles would be picked based on those surveys. My guess is that the people who got put down for trusted the most are the wolves and cobbler. The ones who got put down for distrust the most are probably now just ordinaries. What do you all think? Should we post out answers to the survey?

NO! First of all, the surveys were confidential mod/player information. Also, it's possible they are just for Boro and Wilwa to do narrations, or just so they can sit on their mod thrones and cackle. Either way, it's not for us to try to figure out the ways of the mods (in this instance anyway) and in my opinion using the information we gave the mods to figure things out? Not cheating necessarily, but cheap, and certainly funsucking. In other words, don't do it.

(Plus I don't remember all of mine anyway.)

Originally Posted by Rikae

Hakon, in every game I've played with you you've suggested something that sounds at least close to cheating.

He seems a bit....undevious to me. By that I mean he tries to stir things but appears very laidback and newbish at the same time, yet....YET....he wants to look like an advanced player. It seems squirmy to me, and I don't like it. (Don't mean this in a personal way of course, Hakon, it's just suspicious to me.)

Originally Posted by mormegil

For what it is worth I believe pregame items such as PM's surveys etc... are banned and are considered cheating. It is an honor code system and the expectation is that all adhere to it. I would consider banning somebody from WW if they are caught cheating. I would drop the topic and move on.

What he said.

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

*a very beatiful and powerful voice is heard in the distance*

Wild-eye's mother was a hamster and his father smelt of elderberries....

I bloody love you.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Sorry, I had you mixed up with Hansy.

Suffice to say, though, as the posters above noted, your suggestion would amount to cheating.

That's where I've heard that. And again, I concur.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Hakon, did you just edit to add to the content of your post, or is my mind playing tricks on me? If so, you should know that editing for any purpose other than to note that you crossed with someone is always against the rules. (If you didn't and I really am going crazy, please disregard.)

I think that's a common newbie mistake (whether or not he did it) and I'm glad you brought it up, just so others can be made aware of it too. I know I did that as a newbie because I had no idea I couldn't, silly me. Yay for fyi's.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Sometimes innocents and gifteds play tricks, too.

You'd know all about that, wouldn't you, love?

Originally Posted by Hakon

Rikae, what game did some innocents trick the wolves so well? I kind of unintentionally tricked Boro into making a slip last game when I posted my ranger suspicions involving Mac. Also you all seem to be forgetting something. The bear. If we can figure out who he or she is we can maybe ask him or her to kill off someone that might be a wolf during the night phase.

I'm pretty sure Boro was just interested in your theory and made a silly mistake, not tricked, but that's not the point. We do not dangle a lynching in front of the bear if we find them. If we find the bear, we lynch them, simple as that. (Of course if we've got a bear and two wolves or a bear a wolf and a cobbler that have been dreamt we can ask the bear to snag one of them for us and forestall our judgement but really, I'd prefer to lynch the bear first because there's no guarantee they'd cooperate, and unless there's only one wolf left the bear's the biggest threat anyway. A take on Hakon's theory that makes some sense, but still. I'm not really up for trying our luck, even if we have a very honorable bear.)

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Innocents play tricks, gifteds play tricks, wolves play tricks. Some wolves don't play tricks, too, and still win. The key is to figure out people's intentions behind what trickery or non-trickery they do. Not an easy task, of course.

Hakon, if we figure out who the bear is, the wolves obviously know the same and the bear will die right away anyway. Also, the bear is the role which is among the hardest to figure out and since he is not our side, he won't reveal out of kindness.

Yup. For instance, Fea, Phantom, and others cause chaos and are weird no matter what they are, and it's our task to decide why they're acting so nuts in each individual circumstance. Some innocents (like me, though only on occasion) will place gifted hints in order to draw the wolves away from the real gifteds, but then you run the risk of having people believe your false information and ending up doing more harm than good, so it's difficult. Other people lie about their suspicions, etc., but really it's all down to their motives. (Does that make sense, like at all? Because I got interrupted a few times during this bit and I'm not sure it's clear, so feel free to ask me what I mean or whatever. Just don't try to lynch me for it, 'cause it's just not nice.)

And again. What he said. I feel like a parrot, but at least we know it's fairly unanimous.

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

˙dǝǝɥs pɐǝp ɐ ʎq pǝƃɐʌɐs ƃuıǝq ǝʞıl sı ǝʎǝ-plıʍ ʎq pǝʞɔɐʇʇɐ ƃuıǝq

HAHA!

Originally Posted by Rikae

Yes, xe would ... so why do you think we could have the bear kill someone we choose? Please enlighten me.

If we find the bear, we lynch xem.

THAT'S WHAT SHE SAID. (Meaning in this case that I agree.)

Originally Posted by Nerwen

You're very likely right... at least I've got no idea what else that survey was for. But Rikae's right, too: doing what you suggest comes this close to cheating.

Nessa, we Fenrissed Sally on Day One last time (with a little help from our cobbler) based on her suspicious behaviour... it can be done.

Well, the phantom thinks the bear would do what he says... maybe phantomitis is catching.

Again, what she said.

And I don't mean to be rude, but you didn't catch me doing anything. I was just having some fun, and people decided I should die, then afterward everyone made claims of 'catching me at my obvious evil'. I hadn't even begun to consider the game's agenda, because I hadn't played in a while and just wanted to have some fun. So yes, it can be done, but don't use me as an example.

And my I use this opportunity to quite bluntly point out that my icon, whatever I decide to change it to next, is NOT a reflection of my role (unless I say otherwise or something). I'm just sayin'.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Um, yes... I'll speak very slowly here so I can be sure you understand...

To the pain means... Oh, wait, that's not it.

Why exactly do you think we can control the bear if we know xyr role?

I LOVE YOU~!

We can't. This discussion is just silly. (And no, Rikae, dear, I'm not directing that statement at you, so please don't be offended. You're not on the Jersey side of this cesspool. Incidentally, I think I'll watch that this morning. Yay!)

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I'm sure the wolves are very amused by this bear-discussion.

Reminds me of last game when Fea and Nerwen were going at it and I just sat back and chuckled.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Yes, the bear can kill a cobbler or wolf - or an innocent. The bear is as good as dead in that case anyway, and will kill whomever xe wants. Letting xem have another night kill would be absurd.

Please don't make me explain this again. This is not why I play werewolf.

I is parrot, hear me....well, parrot. Hakon, I understand your theory but it's ludicrous. Sorry.

Originally Posted by Hakon

I understand. I mean if I do not have any suspects I am voting anyone who uses backwards text later in the day.

*grumbles*

I'll be joining Formie in his 'I hate Day One' tent now. That is a horrible reason to vote for someone. Now (to use Nerwen as an example since he did) if she's doing it on Day Five in the middle of a serious lynch discussion I'll happily agree but toDay? Let her have her fun, and lynch someone who seems like they're being either suspicious or as close to it as possible. And right now my someone is you, Hakon. Could he possibly be the cobbler? Or just....oh, heck if I know.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Why aren't we asking the wolves to kill the bear, too? In fact, why don't we just make it a formal request?

Dear Bear and Wolves,

Please kill each other and not us.

Yours Sincerely,

The Villagers.

I'm sure they'll all listen.

Scarily enough, I would. (Of course I mean if I was a bear I'd love to exterminate the wolves and take second place, as it were, but as it's been said once there's no second place in Werewolf so it ain't gonna happen.) And now that I've probably made Hakon think I made a wolf slip (despite me being an ordo, which just makes me giggle) I'll get on with my life.

Originally Posted by morm, and de-highlighted for the convenience of the mods

Okay fine

--Hakon

++Hakon

Do you believe in love at first vote? (Well, second, but that's not the point)







Now of course I don't mean to be rude to Hakon but I think this circus train should be de-railed before we give the wolves any more to read while they eat their popcorn. Drop the subject now, and I might not vote you. (It's a big might right now though, so you may have to buy me a cookie or something.)



EDIT: x'd ever since Rikae said 'that is the best thing ever' in response to Nerwen's making a funny.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Hakon

Morm, thank you for retracting it.

EDIT: I removed all personal content from the post. Now it is just the one line.

Erm, dear....he retracted and then locked it in. He's still voting you.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Because we know they won't. The Villains like the Bear alive, for he kills at night, and every death brings them closer to victory. There's not a chance they'd help us. It's completely against their affiliation and would not be sound strategy. The Bear on the other hand has some amount of freedom.

It seems to me that the only folks who would be irritated about this fact being pointed out would be the Cobbler and Villains. So I'd let the issue go if you don't want to attract attention of that sort.

I think I'm just upset that it's garnering so much discussion, when I honestly don't think the werebear would go for a plea bargain. It's possible, but if we get into that situation we can discuss it then.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Good... um... can we talk about something un-bear-related? Please?

YES PLEASE~!

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Mod-ruling:

Yes I did mean for the surveys to be a part of the discussion...hence why I asked for them. Anything goes, I will say though that you're playing a dangerous guessing game. To try and figure out my rationale for anything is insane. Plus to point out some was complete random drawing, and need I remind you there is another mod, who had a hand in the situation too.

So, best of luck to you in figuring it out. Figured it'd be a good Day 1 thing. Although, there are probably more beneficial ways to figure out the roles than trying to read my mind (and wilwa's)

*snickers*

That's what she said?

[Hakon]

Erm, dear....he retracted and then locked it in. He's still voting you.

I know. I was just saying thank you for at least retracting it.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Hakon

I know. I was just saying thank you for at least retracting it.

Erm....okie dokie then. Whatever butters your toast.

[Boromir88]

Boro- was I accurate when I said this?

Hopefully this attempt is better...

Generally discussing them is awesome, like would I chose a trusting person for _________?

And of course you may say whatever people you may trust or don't trust, or whatever you feel about a person.

I think part of the confusion was the "posting" of them...which is why I referred that Mac had it as far as actually posting the survey and your answers.

Basically, I think you are more or less correct tp. You may talk about whoever you trust or don't or fear or whoever as much as you want to. That typically happens in most games anyway. But the actual posting of your answers...no, no that I will do anonymously at the end o the game.

[satansaloser2005]

Thank you for the clarification, oh modly one. We shall strive to act accordingly.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Thank you for the clarification, oh modly one. We shall strive to act accordingly.

You best be.

[Lariren Shadow]

So bringing the discussion from the topic that has been beaten to death to this new one: surveys what do people think about them?

There is the idea that the people we trusted were made the wolves, which would be devious. But that is possibly too obvious. Then everyone would just say who they trusted and be done with it and vote for them. I'm of the mind that one of the people we trusted most is a gifted, another is a wolf, and possibly a third is the bear.

But that is just my guess.

[Rikae]

More to phantom, and Sally can vote for me if she likes

In theory and on the surface, yeah, you can say that if you were able to convince the bear to gun for the wolves more, that would be a good thing. But the thing is, it's a crazy thing - just about as crazy as Nerwen's "please kill each other" joke - so much so that all it accomplishes is to derail discussion into the totally useless - and I admit, you've made me waste my energy with the useless for half the day as well. If that was your plan, nicely done.
The thing that makes me suspicious, though is that you should know better. I've seen you in action before, and I've seen you trick baddies. You didn't do it by pretending to give them advice (why should they take your advice?) either. I think you know perfectly well that attempting to make the bear into an ally is pointless, and that's why I find you suspicious and why it absolutely has to be pointed out - and if you want to suspect me in return, that's just fine.

[the phantom]

*rolls eyes*

If I answered I would only be rehashing the same exact things again. Whatever. Think what you wish.

In the meantime, surveys!

I said I could read everyone.

And then I said I was kidding, and that generally people I've played with before always give me a reading. Not that it is correct, but they at least make me feel one thing or another. I listed a few of them. I also said that Fea, Nerwen, and Rikae probably made my thoughts swing back and forth the most between guilty and innocent.

For players I fear- I gave the names of an entire group of players. A cookie for anyone who guesses which group.

When making a plea for their life last-minute, I can't remember exactly who made the cut, but I seem to recall stating that I'd trust morm, Mac, Brin, Shasta, and Lommy in such a situation. But naturally that would change if I'm not liking them.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by the phantom

For players I fear- I gave the names of an entire group of players. A cookie for anyone who guesses which group.

The Rudolph contingent?

[Hakon]

For players I trust I think I had said Mac and Shasta. For players I distrust I think I had said Nessa and Inziladun.

[satansaloser2005]

Did....really?

*headdesks*

Oh, and Wilwa?

Ni! Ni! Ni! Ni!

[Macalaure]

Are you trying to kill me?

[Rikae]

Didn't Boro just say we were not supposed to post our answers?

Phantom, if you repeated what you said, that what not be an answer.

Post utter nonsense, but "helpful" nonsense, and then call anyone who questions it a wolf. Now there's a strategy.

[satansaloser2005]

Hence the headdesk, Rikae. But I think we should discuss something else before my head explodes.


Oh no, not Fea!


(Hey, if Greenie's available, or anyone else that wanted to play for that matter, I'd be okay with them stepping in if that's all right with everyone else. Just sayin'.)


ETA: To clarify, my thing to Rikae was regarding the release of our lists, not Phantom.

[alonariel]

Oh gosh. I go to bed at 10 last night, and nearing the end of page 2, and wake up to find page 7?!?

*dies*

I'm reading through all the posts now (I'm somewhere on page 4...) but my god! That is quite a feat for Day One. I see Boro encouraged it... *runs off to get a pick axe*

[Rikae]

phantom, you have conveniently left out the possibility that you and/or Hakon are evil. If somebody engages in behavior I consider pointless, I have to ask myself... well, let me put it this way:
either you are a liar or you're crazy. I know from past experience you aren't crazy, therefore you must be a liar.
The option that you are God is not viable in this case.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rikae

phantom, you have conveniently left out the possibility that you and/or Hakon are evil. If somebody engages in behavior I consider pointless, I have to ask myself... well, let me put it this way:
either you are a liar or you're crazy. I know from past experience you aren't crazy, therefore you must be a liar.
The option that you are God is not viable in this case.

I wish I hadn't repped you so recently, because that last bit is gold.

And Phantom is crazy, remember? Even when he's an ordo. Doesn't mean I trust him, but I know he's a nutjob so I'm not going to automatically assume he's going to drive down here and kill me in my sleep. At least not tonight; I won't be home.