TIG: LXV - Our fate lies with...them? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

the phantom · 08-13-2009, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Why aren't we asking the wolves to kill the bear, too?

Because we know they won't. The Villains like the Bear alive, for he kills at night, and every death brings them closer to victory. There's not a chance they'd help us. It's completely against their affiliation and would not be sound strategy. The Bear on the other hand has some amount of freedom.

It seems to me that the only folks who would be irritated about this fact being pointed out would be the Cobbler and Villains. So I'd let the issue go if you don't want to attract attention of that sort.

the phantom · 08-13-2009, 10:19 AM

Boro- was I accurate when I said this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Candor Man

As far as Hakon's talk about discussing our surveys, I don't see anything wrong with it. Frankly, I believe Boro intended us to discuss it, and possibly gain suspicions from it (and of course lie about our results). I agree that it would be in poor taste to actually quote any PM sent to or received from the Mods, but I see nothing wrong with stating "I said I couldn't read so-and-so", because really we have no idea how the information was used. If I recall, it seems to me that Boro almost dared us to guess how he was using the info.

And yes, Nerwen, I agree that the other issue doesn't need to be discussed any more. What needed to be said has been said. The truth is out there for the Bear to read if he wishes.

Nerwen · 08-13-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the phantom

And yes, Nerwen, I agree that the other issue doesn't need to be discussed any more. What needed to be said has been said. The truth is out there for the Bear to read if he wishes.

Good... um... can we talk about something un-bear-related? Please?

the phantom · 08-13-2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverser

Good... um... can we talk about something un-bear-related? Please?

Mod-God just said we can discuss surveys.

Boromir88 · 08-13-2009, 10:32 AM

Mac's got it.

Quote:

They were supposed to be confidential and it's exclusively up to Boro to post them.

Rikae · 08-13-2009, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Mac's got it.

Ok, wait a minute - you just said we could post them, didn't you?

Boromir88 · 08-13-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikae

Ok, wait a minute - you just said we could post them, didn't you?

Oh my bad for the confusion. Discussion of their purpose is ok, and is encouraged. Posting individual answers is not. That I will do afterwards and it will be anonymous

I seriously wouldn't even be able to tell you who voted for who as I just marked down the numbers

Inziladun · 08-13-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the phantom

Mod-God just said we can discuss surveys.

I still have to wonder what we can gain from that. Seems a waste of time when the baddies can just make up whatever they like.

x'd with Rikae

the phantom · 08-13-2009, 10:40 AM

Wrong, Rikae. I'm not trying to trick the Bear. You're right that the Bear also likes the extra Night kill, but there are three Villains to provide it, and thus it is rather safe to gun for them. You only need one Villain alive to provide the extra kill, and so the Bear won't kill the last Villain I agree, but any Villain before that is fair game. And the Cobbler especially, as he does not even provide a kill but is simply a villager guaranteed to side with the Villains. The Bear should definitely consider slaughtering an obvious Cobbler.

Your resistance to these facts is puzzling. Even if it were true that I was attempting to trick the Bear into helping us, is that a bad thing that you would need to point out?! Seriously.... Every time you try and fight this idea you look very suspicious to me, as if you're a Wolf saying, "No, no, don't gun for us!" or the Cobbler saying, "No, don't kill my masters!"

I have done nothing but state fact. Stop trying to make it sound otherwise. Firstly, what I'm saying is correct. Second, even if it wasn't, it's obviously to the benefit of the village, so opposing it is ridiculous.

Rikae · 08-13-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the phantom

Wrong, Rikae. I'm not trying to trick the Bear. You're right that the Bear also likes the extra Night kill, but there are three Villains to provide it, and thus it is rather safe to gun for them. You only need one Villain alive to provide the extra kill, and so the Bear won't kill the last Villain I agree, but any Villain before that is fair game. And the Cobbler especially, as he does not even provide a kill but is simply a villager guaranteed to side with the Villains. The Bear should definitely consider slaughtering an obvious Cobbler.

Your resistance to these facts is puzzling. Even if it were true that I was attempting to trick the Bear into helping us, is that a bad thing that you would need to point out?! Seriously.... Every time you try and fight this idea you look very suspicious to me, as if you're a Wolf saying, "No, no, don't gun for us!" or the Cobbler saying, "No, don't kill my masters!"

I have done nothing but state fact. Stop trying to make it sound otherwise. Firstly, what I'm saying is correct. Second, even if it wasn't, it's obviously to the benefit of the village, so opposing it is ridiculous.

It doesn't benefit the village to promote false hope. If the bear guns for wolves, it will be when xe feels it will help xem, not because we ask xem to. I'm not "resisting facts", you are. The bear is not going to "ally" xemself with us, and to think of xem as an ally is not to the village's benefit. The bear may kill a wolf, but is more likely to kill an innocent, and as long as xe lives, we'll have two deaths per night. Lynching the bear early on would be the best thing we could do, and when you and Hakon run around promoting the idea that the bear is some kind of super guard dog, it makes you look very suspicious to me.

satansaloser2005 · 08-13-2009, 10:56 AM

The next person to promote/continue the bear discussion (who doesn't cross with me) is getting my vote. I may or may not be kidding.

Going to tidy myself and a few things about the house. Enjoy.

Rikae · 08-13-2009, 10:28 AM

Phantom, I think I see what you might trying to do innocently, but it seems like you're more likely to mislead innocents than to bend the bear to your will, and now that you're trying to cast suspicion on those who doubt you, you're starting to seem less trustworthy.
The bear also needs to reduce the number of villagers - more than the wolves do, even. I've played as a werebear and it's quite clear, in that position, that winning by picking the villagers off one by one is a much harder task. I don't think it's possible to fool the bear as you seem to be trying to do (or trying to look like you're trying) - the bear will certainly judge how likely xe is to be killed by the wolves at any given time and act accordingly, but xe wants to get our numbers down. If anything, the bear has less flexibility than the wolves do, and certainly no motivation to help the village.
As for the Dark Monarch being the evil we're up against, the bear is evil too, so there. :P
If Boro chose the roles according to who trusted whom, wouldn't discussing our surveys be equivalent to discussing how personal relationships or past games may have influenced the mod's role choices in another game? Unless Boro says it's open for discussion, I consider it off limits.

EDIT: X'd with two Nerwens, a Brinn and a Boro.

Nerwen · 08-13-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the phantom

Because we know they won't. The Villains like the Bear alive, for he kills at night, and every death brings them closer to victory. There's not a chance they'd help us. It's completely against their affiliation and would not be sound strategy. The Bear on the other hand has some amount of freedom.

*headdesk* tp, I should have thought it was fairly obvious I was trying to be funny back there. I may not have succeeded, but I was trying.

EDIT:X'd since my last post.

Boromir88 · 08-13-2009, 10:27 AM

Mod-ruling:

Yes I did mean for the surveys to be a part of the discussion...hence why I asked for them. Anything goes, I will say though that you're playing a dangerous guessing game. To try and figure out my rationale for anything is insane. Plus to point out some was complete random drawing, and need I remind you there is another mod, who had a hand in the situation too.

So, best of luck to you in figuring it out. Figured it'd be a good Day 1 thing. Although, there are probably more beneficial ways to figure out the roles than trying to read my mind (and wilwa's)

Rikae · 08-13-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Mod-ruling:

Yes I did mean for the surveys to be a part of the discussion...hence why I asked for them. Anything goes, I will say though that you're playing a dangerous guessing game. To try and figure out my rationale for anything is insane. Plus to point out some was complete random drawing, and need I remind you there is another mod, who had a hand in the situation too.

So, best of luck to you in figuring it out. Figured it'd be a good Day 1 thing. Although, there are probably more beneficial ways to figure out the roles than trying to read my mind (and wilwa's)

Well, since we have modly permission:

I have a hunch that Hakon may be dead wrong about the role-picking, and that Boro, at least, may have chosen according to our expectations rather than against them.

08-13-2009, 10:40 AM	#9
the phantom Beloved Shadow Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: The Stadium Posts: 5,971	Wrong, Rikae. I'm not trying to trick the Bear. You're right that the Bear also likes the extra Night kill, but there are three Villains to provide it, and thus it is rather safe to gun for them. You only need one Villain alive to provide the extra kill, and so the Bear won't kill the last Villain I agree, but any Villain before that is fair game. And the Cobbler especially, as he does not even provide a kill but is simply a villager guaranteed to side with the Villains. The Bear should definitely consider slaughtering an obvious Cobbler. Your resistance to these facts is puzzling. Even if it were true that I was attempting to trick the Bear into helping us, is that a bad thing that you would need to point out?! Seriously.... Every time you try and fight this idea you look very suspicious to me, as if you're a Wolf saying, "No, no, don't gun for us!" or the Cobbler saying, "No, don't kill my masters!" I have done nothing but state fact. Stop trying to make it sound otherwise. Firstly, what I'm saying is correct. Second, even if it wasn't, it's obviously to the benefit of the village, so opposing it is ridiculous. __________________ the phantom has posted. This thread is now important.

08-13-2009, 10:56 AM	#11
satansaloser2005 The Sweetest Spoiler Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: from beneath you it giggles incessantly Posts: 5,789	The next person to promote/continue the bear discussion (who doesn't cross with me) is getting my vote. I may or may not be kidding. Going to tidy myself and a few things about the house. Enjoy. __________________ "My heart always cowers behind the defense of my wit." Friendship is two pals munching on a well-cooked face together. Fenris bookworm.

08-13-2009, 10:27 AM	#14
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	Mod-ruling: Yes I did mean for the surveys to be a part of the discussion...hence why I asked for them. Anything goes, I will say though that you're playing a dangerous guessing game. To try and figure out my rationale for anything is insane. Plus to point out some was complete random drawing, and need I remind you there is another mod, who had a hand in the situation too. So, best of luck to you in figuring it out. Figured it'd be a good Day 1 thing. Although, there are probably more beneficial ways to figure out the roles than trying to read my mind (and wilwa's) __________________ Fenris Penguin

08-13-2009, 10:28 AM	#12
Rikae Mellifluous Maia Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: A glade open to the stars, deep in Nan Elmoth Posts: 3,489	Phantom, I think I see what you might trying to do innocently, but it seems like you're more likely to mislead innocents than to bend the bear to your will, and now that you're trying to cast suspicion on those who doubt you, you're starting to seem less trustworthy. The bear also needs to reduce the number of villagers - more than the wolves do, even. I've played as a werebear and it's quite clear, in that position, that winning by picking the villagers off one by one is a much harder task. I don't think it's possible to fool the bear as you seem to be trying to do (or trying to look like you're trying) - the bear will certainly judge how likely xe is to be killed by the wolves at any given time and act accordingly, but xe wants to get our numbers down. If anything, the bear has less flexibility than the wolves do, and certainly no motivation to help the village. As for the Dark Monarch being the evil we're up against, the bear is evil too, so there. :P If Boro chose the roles according to who trusted whom, wouldn't discussing our surveys be equivalent to discussing how personal relationships or past games may have influenced the mod's role choices in another game? Unless Boro says it's open for discussion, I consider it off limits. EDIT: X'd with two Nerwens, a Brinn and a Boro.