Tidbits of Curiosity

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Now do I repost mine so that it's seen under yours which needs to be seen under mine which was seen under yours...?

It's interesting that the Ar-Pharazon story actually went through the exact same change as the Aredhel one, but in reverse! In the original account(s), Miriel was perfectly happy to marry her cousin; there's even an Elendil-aligned character who she breaks off with to do so. The forced marriage is a later conception of Tolkien's, to make her more sympathetic.

The Doom of the Noldor may or may not cover Maeglin (he's only half-Noldo, after all), but should definitely include Idril. Except... it kind of didn't, because as far as we know, she got to cheerfully sail back to Valinor and hang out with her now-immortal husband. Perhaps Seers get a free pass?

(Of course, in later Ages, Galadriel managed to figure out the loophole in the Doom. "To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well"? Ah, but if we just go and take over - pardon me, generously agree to rule - someone else's kingdom, we won't have begun anything...

hS

Well, G55 asked me, not you, so yeah.


Your Turin/Idril ship idea is kewl, though....

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Well, G55 asked me, not you, so yeah.

Oops, sorry - I figured the thread was for anyone to jump into. I'm still learning the etiquette around here.

hS

[Urwen]

Could Maeglin be considered a hero in any capacity?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Well, G55 asked me, not you, so yeah.

Well, I posed the question to the public in general, and I'm happy to hear all the "what if" spin-offs.

Originally Posted by Urwen

Could Maeglin be considered a hero in any capacity?

If Macbeth can be considered a tragic hero, Maeglin probably can.

The way the story goes, there is not much sympathy for Maeglin after his initial introduction to Gondolin. It's easy to sympathize with him before that point, but afterwards he leans over to the antagonist side: the haughty prince who speaks down to Hurin and Huor, the weirdo who fantasizes about his cousin, the selfish one who can't get his priorities straight. It's hard to conceptualize him as a hero, even if the story was retold in a more sympathetic light, but he is an antihero - the big character who drives the story, though not somebody one would want to follow or emulate.

[Urwen]

Do you believe that Tuor saved Maeglin (and Idril) from worse fate by doing what he did?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Do you believe that Tuor saved Maeglin (and Idril) from worse fate by doing what he did?

Are you referring to him marrying Idril or killing Maeglin? Or something else?

To be honest, I don't think Tuor saved Maeglin. Yes, things might have happened differently if he didn't do this or say that, but on the whole I don't think redirecting events alone qualifies as saving in that sense. Maeglin needed saving from himself, and if anything Tuor made his cloud darker and pushed him to the point of no return. It's possible that, like Grima in the Shire, he might have experienced a time when he would be able to come back again, but he didn't live to see such a time, so we'll never know.

Perhaps I'm not very objective here because I don't like Tuor very much, but I would not credit him with saving Maeglin.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Are you referring to him marrying Idril or killing Maeglin? Or something else?

To be honest, I don't think Tuor saved Maeglin. Yes, things might have happened differently if he didn't do this or say that, but on the whole I don't think redirecting events alone qualifies as saving in that sense. Maeglin needed saving from himself, and if anything Tuor made his cloud darker and pushed him to the point of no return. It's possible that, like Grima in the Shire, he might have experienced a time when he would be able to come back again, but he didn't live to see such a time, so we'll never know.

Perhaps I'm not very objective here because I don't like Tuor very much, but I would not credit him with saving Maeglin.

I don't mean in that sense. I meant in 'kill the hroa to save the fea' sense.