Split Personality?

[Sauron the White]

If Gollum is portrayed in the films as having some type of disassociative disorder - and I think he does - it is important to understand this is clearly not the same as the typical Hollywood version of the split personality. In many films over the years, and in countless TV shows, we see the split personality as the 100% take over of a person by a different personality almost like a possession. That is an extreme of an extreme.

Most people who experience disassociate disorder maintain a personality with a middle constant that can vacilate in part to different ends. Most people around them can live for years seeing them everyday and never realize they have the disorder. Its not like "today I am me.... now look ... I am Rasputin". It really does not work that way.

Frodo wakes up the Smeagol portion of his personality and it battles back and forth with the Gollum side. In the middle is a constant that permits to serve his new master, enjoy rediscovering his more pleasant side, while at the same time leading him to Shelob. People without the disorder would see those two things as a contradiction, but someone with the disorder sees nothing at all wrong with what they are doing.

[Quempel]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

If Gollum is portrayed in the films as having some type of disassociative disorder - and I think he does - it is important to understand this is clearly not the same as the typical Hollywood version of the split personality. In many films over the years, and in countless TV shows, we see the split personality as the 100% take over of a person by a different personality almost like a possession. That is an extreme of an extreme.

Most people who experience disassociate disorder maintain a personality with a middle constant that can vacilate in part to different ends. Most people around them can live for years seeing them everyday and never realize they have the disorder. Its not like "today I am me.... now look ... I am Rasputin". It really does not work that way.

Frodo wakes up the Smeagol portion of his personality and it battles back and forth with the Gollum side. In the middle is a constant that permits to serve his new master, enjoy rediscovering his more pleasant side, while at the same time leading him to Shelob. People without the disorder would see those two things as a contradiction, but someone with the disorder sees nothing at all wrong with what they are doing.

It is my understanding that typical DID do not have their personalities communicate with each other much, but I am only in my third year. However, I don't disagree that he may have had a split personality, but I think he presents with a side order of DID as it were. Most DID patients are not manipulative and mean, just sick. That said a person with a serious Cluster B personality disorder can also have DID. Cluster B are the psychopaths, boardrline, Histrionic (Hysterical),Narcissistic, Antisocial, Borderline types. Actually come to think about it he could easily fall into the Cluster A and C personality disorders too. It shows how much the ring can do. But Smeagol was already a murderer and theif before Gollum showed up. I have to wonder just how much the ring did to turn him into Gollum, since Smeagol wasn't that good of a hobbit to begin with. I wonder where he would rank in the most evil ranking.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Quempel

I wonder where he would rank in the most evil ranking.

Middle to low. Both Jackson and Tolkien make the Ring a semi-sentient entity that controls its destiny via others. Smeagol was chosen by the Ring, and for the Ring to move to that bearer, Deagol had to be removed. There being no orcs around, as in the case of Isildur, the Ring made Smeagol kill Deagol.

Note that Smeagol and Deagol previously hung out together, and the two always returned home, and so it's because of the Ring that only one returns that fateful day. Bilbo could have 'dun murder' as well, but that would not have served the Ring's purposes. If Bilbo slew Gollum before Gollum led Bilbo to the Goblin's exit, then it would have likely remained where is was for another eon - and just weren't the first 500 years just peachy?

Bilbo does not murder Gollum when he's exiting the cave as that would have drawn attention to the bearer, and hence the Ring. But this wasn't the Ring's doing (I think) as wasn't there another power at work that was trying to get the Ring into Frodo's hands?

Gollum may have been evil, but I'm guessing that he would have been listed lower than Sandyman if it weren't for the Ring.