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Old 11-29-2007, 06:11 AM   #1
Findegil
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Well, I don't think that question is ultimatly answered by Tolkien in any of his writings. But he gave some hints. At least part of your question can be answered:
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If Aragorn had put on the Ring, would he have become invisible?
Devinitley yes. We have the example of Isildur. In Unfinished Tales it is in detail told how he used the invisibility that the Ring granted to escape the Deaster of the Gladden Fields until he lost the ring in the river Anduin.
And from what we hear in the Silmarillion chapter Of the Rings of Power and the Thrid Age about the men that took the Nine it was not only the One Ring that made its manish wearer invisible.
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What about Elrond, or Gandalf the Grey?
This is quiet another matter. We see Galadriel wearing her Ring and beeing visibile nonetheless and the same seems to be true for Elrond and Gandalf. Since we see the least mighty of the rings (the Nine) and the most mighty (the One) grant their manish wearer invisibility, it seems most probable to me that all the Rings of Power would have such an effect on man. But as we have seen not on Elves or Istari nor on Bombadil for that matter.

Why this is so is a question of pure speculation for which I will not go on. But I would like to remark, that even the Elves and Gandalf wearing their Rings did some tricy invisibility stuff with it, since no one could see the Rings on their fingers.

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Old 11-29-2007, 09:56 AM   #2
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The Ring's power was definitely not to turn a person invisible, as it would have made little sense to do this. Why would Sauron had given it this power, if he himself was visible while wearing it?
My suspicion is that its power was to transport a person from the Seen into the Unseen World, also called Wraith World, but the reason for this I could only speculate, perhaps that Sauron could thus better control or communicate with the Ring-wraiths.

About other wearers...most would be turned invisible.
But certain beings existed in both worlds. Ringwraiths had a more material look in the world and High Elves (those that had journeyed to Valinor and seen the light of the trees + Elu Thingol) appeared as a shining figure.
It could be that they would not disappear, as they already existed in the Wraith-world.

As for Bombadil, as he is not of Middle-earth he is not really bound to the laws that exist in the world but only to his own laws. As such the Ring had no power over him and also he could see Frodo while he was wearing it.
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:53 PM   #3
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We can't base anything on the Keepers of the Three, because the Three were different. "They did not confer invisibility." Thus spake Tolkien.

The OP brought up 'unsheathed swords.' This apparently is a reference to The Hobbit, where Sting's 'light' is visible as the Ring-wearing Bilbo attacks the Spiders. One could of course just dismiss this as being The Hobbit, when Bilbo's ring wasn't yet The Ring. But we might combine it with another quasi-canonical text, The Disaster of the Gladden Fields, and conclude that if a person bearing a (magical?) light-source puts on the Ring, he and everything he wears or carries becomes invisible- but the light escaping from the source becomes visible as soon as it leaves. This would explain why the Elendilmir continued to shine until Isildur covered it with his hood, and why Sting shone when drawn but not when sheathed in the presence of enemies.

It does seem that a Ring affects that which its wearer is wearing or holding at the moment he puts it on, but not items picked up subsequently. The Nine's original mail and helms etc became invisible as a product of their ring-induced fading; but the cloaks they put on subsequently, and the physical weapons of the Witch-king, remained visible. Of course this could just as well be explained by the fact that by the end of the Third Age they had long ago handed over their Rings to Sauron.
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:55 PM   #4
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...but the light escaping from the source becomes visible as soon as it leaves. This would explain why the Elendilmir continued to shine until Isildur covered it with his hood, and why Sting shone when drawn but not when sheathed in the presence of enemies.
That makes sense - as soon as the light (photons) leave the source, they become visible. Just like if the wearer of the Ring throws an object, it becomes visible the moment it is no longer touched.

But the notion that objects one is holding or wearing at the moment one puts on the Ring also become invisible raises silly questions. For example, if Frodo were holding a pint of ale and slipped on the Ring, the pint of ale should also become invisible. And if a pint of ale, then also what if he was holding, say, a chair? Does it have to be suspended in the air to become invisible? Does the pint? What if the pint is on the table, but Frodo is firmly grasping it?

I also like the explanation from The Might that the invisibility of the wearer is caused by transportation to an alternate "wraith" dimension, that is "alongside" the one other normal people inhabit. Perhaps entering this wraith dimension allows a knowledgable wearer (like Sauron) better access or immunity to magics, and this was the true intended power of the Ring.

In The Hobbit, Bilbo wears the Ring constantly for a period of days or weeks (longer?) while figuring out a way to free the dwarfs from the Mirkwood elves' dungeon. I know The Hobbit is pre-LOTR and not necessarily consistent with it, but if it were consistent then Bilbo would have existed in the wraith dimension for a relatively long period of time. Fortunately the Necromancer did not sense him there!
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Old 11-30-2007, 06:04 AM   #5
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I've wondered this before also. When Bilbo wore the Ring in Mirkwood, he did not appear to suffer from any effects of the Ring, other than invisibility. No distorted visions or hallucinations, no watching eyes or other unbidden images of past/future like what happened to Frodo. Was this because Sauron's powers were diminished at that time? Could Sauron have sensed that someone was wearing his Ring?
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Old 11-30-2007, 07:12 AM   #6
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I've wondered this before also. When Bilbo wore the Ring in Mirkwood, he did not appear to suffer from any effects of the Ring, other than invisibility. No distorted visions or hallucinations, no watching eyes or other unbidden images of past/future like what happened to Frodo. Was this because Sauron's powers were diminished at that time? Could Sauron have sensed that someone was wearing his Ring?
That was because Bilbo had the Ring just for a few weeks at that time. Concerning Sauron sensing the Ring, Bilbo was faar away from him! Sauron did not sense the Ring entering Mordor, now why would he sense it in Mirkwood, which was not even fully under his domination. The only moment Sauron sensed the Ring was when Frodo claimed it as his own (in Mordor, what more, even in the place where it was forged).

Concerning the invisibility, let me add a few more points. I believe TM's explanation to be quite correct. The Elven lords inhabited both the worlds, as well as the Maiar (and Bombadil), so they won't get invisible. Isildur did, the Hobbits did. Aragorn, Denethor, Boromir, everyone probably would, though it may seem strange - and if they really wanted to master the Ring and claimed it as their own, the power would have been sensed stemming from them (something like from Sam when Snaga saw him). And they would have seen to that they find themselves an outfit and they would probably look like a Ringwraith then (i.e. let's say in Denethor's case the Steward's throne - and maybe even the King's, later - usurped by an invisible hooded figure in beautiful Gondorian-coloured black and white cloak and with a silver or golden mask instead of a face).

Concerning the Sting, Elessar and all things that are visible, resp. their light, I believe this is indeed given simply by the fact that the object glows. Similarly, for example the Silmarilli would have been shining in such a case, or the Star-Glass; or a simple lantern would do the same as well. If you entered a room where there is Frodo with the Ring and a lantern, you will see the room is lit, but you won't see the source. At the moment Frodo dropped the lantern, it would be seen. Of course other things, like that with the mug in the example used above, would have needed a further clarification. But I would say that here it may not be only physical thing, but also based on the intention of the bearer - my personal belief is that at the moment Frodo would have claimed the mug intentionally as his own (even subconsciously), it would have disappeared. If he simply touched it, accidentally, the mug would have remained there unaffected.

And concerning the fact that no one noticed the Three on their bearers' fingers, I would say it could have been given by many factors. The first thing is something like "I am not seen when I don't want to", really some sort of, how a stupid simple mortal would say, magic. Second thing is that definitely Elrond or Galadriel had lots of other jewelry, so, you wouldn't think about the ring on Elrond's hand deeper than you do about the circlet on his head. If you look at Galadriel's hand, you don't care much of her wedding ring, or this is at least what it seems to you. Maybe if you thought about it deeply, you'd realise that in fact her wedding ring is on the other hand, but here we are back at the problem that you won't probably even think about it. You can look at something and not realise what you are looking at, that's nothing unusual. The more if it is "magic". And in the best case, when a Ringwraith would have met Galadriel at the borders of Lórien, he would have felt terrible power, but I believe it would still need a lot of thinking from him to 100% say that it is stemming from the ring on her hand, even if he anticipated that.
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Old 11-30-2007, 07:09 PM   #7
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Legate, I likewise believe that the Elven lords and the Maiar inhabited both worlds; but where exactly is it told?

And a question: wraith world = spirit world?
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Old 11-30-2007, 09:38 PM   #8
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Concerning the invisibility, let me add a few more points. I believe TM's explanation to be quite correct. The Elven lords inhabited both the worlds, as well as the Maiar (and Bombadil), so they won't get invisible. Isildur did, the Hobbits did. Aragorn, Denethor, Boromir, everyone probably would, though it may seem strange - and if they really wanted to master the Ring and claimed it as their own, the power would have been sensed stemming from them (something like from Sam when Snaga saw him). And they would have seen to that they find themselves an outfit and they would probably look like a Ringwraith then (i.e. let's say in Denethor's case the Steward's throne - and maybe even the King's, later - usurped by an invisible hooded figure in beautiful Gondorian-coloured black and white cloak and with a silver or golden mask instead of a face).
You know, I had always assumed the Ring would make any mortal invisible, but for some reason the full implications never occurred to me.

Would it be necessary to wear it all the time, though?
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Old 11-30-2007, 11:33 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc View Post
And concerning the fact that no one noticed the Three on their bearers' fingers, I would say it could have been given by many factors. The first thing is something like "I am not seen when I don't want to", really some sort of, how a stupid simple mortal would say, magic. Second thing is that definitely Elrond or Galadriel had lots of other jewelry, so, you wouldn't think about the ring on Elrond's hand deeper than you do about the circlet on his head. If you look at Galadriel's hand, you don't care much of her wedding ring, or this is at least what it seems to you. Maybe if you thought about it deeply, you'd realise that in fact her wedding ring is on the other hand, but here we are back at the problem that you won't probably even think about it. You can look at something and not realise what you are looking at, that's nothing unusual. The more if it is "magic". And in the best case, when a Ringwraith would have met Galadriel at the borders of Lórien, he would have felt terrible power, but I believe it would still need a lot of thinking from him to 100% say that it is stemming from the ring on her hand, even if he anticipated that.
Hmm, I am not sure I buy this part, although I agree with the first part of the post. Galadriel asks Sam if he has seen anything of the Ring and Sam replies that he hasn't, and was in fact wondering what she and Frodo were talking about. And there does not seem to be any mention of people noticing the Ring of Fire on the hand of Gandalf, despite encounters over countless years with all manner of beings (Men, Elves, and even the wizard Saruman, who apparently only gradually came to realize that Gandalf was in possession of the Ring of Fire). Why, for example, would somebody like Saruman, who was sensitive to the use of "magic", or at least the powers associated with a ring like that held by Gandalf, not see it immediately??

All of these imply to me that it was possible to keep the Three Rings invisible or at least unnoticed. Of course, their role is different than the role of the One Ring, which is a ring that literally broadcasts power (thus the ability of the Nazgul and even Gollum to sense it), so this perhaps explains in part how it was possible to keep them hidden.
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