A hundredth re-read of the LotR

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Only chiming in with a short comment...

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel

Actually, I always found Farmer Maggot to be an interesting indication that not all hobbits are what many of the Big People think them to be. He defends his property, tells a Nazgul to get lost, and thinks that the rather more stuffy folk of Hobbiton are strange.

I agree with everything you say, except for the last one - that is not an indication of anything special. He is just the same as the hobbits of Bag-End in this, it is simply the "regional xenophobia", or how to call that. Sure you know that from your country, wherever you live, too - I think it must be the same all over the world: hobbits from Hobbitton say (at the beginning of the book, in the pub I think - it is Gaffer if I recall correctly) that the Bucklanders are strange, and a hobbit from the east (Maggot) says that people of Hobbitton are strange (in which I find a kind of funny resonation, at least I always took it as an intentional writer's joke). Pretty normal even in our world.

And as for this chapter being funny or scary, I gave some grounds on that in the thread quoted during the first reading - let me just say here that I do not find it that scary, since this is still the Shire, and it is friendly and... it is just like here now. (I said even about the chapter before that I would actually enjoy the night walk with the Hobbits, even with the Black Riders. It's great!)

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I agree with everything you say, except for the last one - that is not an indication of anything special. He is just the same as the hobbits of Bag-End in this, it is simply the "regional xenophobia", or how to call that. Sure you know that from your country, wherever you live, too - I think it must be the same all over the world: hobbits from Hobbitton say (at the beginning of the book, in the pub I think - it is Gaffer if I recall correctly) that the Bucklanders are strange, and a hobbit from the east (Maggot) says that people of Hobbitton are strange (in which I find a kind of funny resonation, at least I always took it as an intentional writer's joke). Pretty normal even in our world.

Oh, certainly, you find regional prejudices, even within some cities. A very normal situation. But Maggot does seem, to me at least, a little more willing to do what Big Folk don't seem to think hobbits in general will do, that being stand up to protect himself and his land rather than run and hide and let someone else do it. Which, no doubt, is a Big People prejudice toward Hobbits, who feel a need to protect (or exploit) them because they think they're all afraid of the world. Maggot rather plainly isn't; he didn't need to be put into much of a pinch before he showed what was in him.

[alatar]

Okay, so I just want to show that I'm not crazy. Anyway, here are direct quotes from "Three is Company" that made me think that 'sniffing' was to be a big deal (and note the emphasis seen is from the original text - not added):

• From inside the hood came a noise as of someone sniffing to catch an elusive scent; the head turned from side to side of the road.

• 'I can't say why, but I felt certain he was looking or smelling for me;

• 'What about the smelling, sir?' said Sam.

• 'Your talk of sniffing riders with invisible noses has unsettled me.'

• 'Very well!' said Pippin. 'But don't forget the sniffing!'

• Frodo thought he heard the sound of snuffling.

We get more in 'A Short Cut to Mushrooms'. And after all of this, the explanation we learn is (to jump ahead to the chapter "A Knife in the Dark'):

Originally Posted by Strider on Weathertop

And at all times they smell the blood of living things, desiring and hating it.

Almost as anticlimatic as this post.

[Boromir88]

In this chapter, we have the memorable saying "Short cuts make long delays." I'm wondering, is that originally invented by Tolkien, or has he picked it from somewhere?~Lommy

Hmm interesting, and of course this is also where we get Frodo's retort:

"That settles it!"..."Short cuts make delays, but inns make longer ones."

And we know Tolkien certainly loved spending time at the pub with his fellow Inklings.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Lommy, I am a native speaker, and I'm not aware of a common saying that goes "Short cuts makes long delays", so I'm inclined to credit Tolkien with inventing that one. It's all too often true, isn't it?!

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

And we know Tolkien certainly loved spending time at the pub with his fellow Inklings.

Maybe the saying was born out of bitter (ho ho) experience, as yet another night out with Clive and the lads would turn into a late session with the Professor having to fly home on his beer scooter and the volume on the house turning up to 11 as he vainly tried to get the key in the door quietly without waking up the wife?

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

Try to think back to before you knew all there was to know about the Nazgûl (admittedly not much, relatively speaking, but still). The sniffing and snuffling, I think, is definitely an effective way to signal that these Riders are not human, that there's something weird (in all senses of that word) about them.

Indeed. Yes, a creature which snuffles all the time might make you think of the workmate with the perennially runny nose who doesn't seem to understand the uses of Kleenex and who makes you feel sick but.....a creature which snuffles around in the dark is most definitely not human, and it's pretty scary if you think about all the possible reasons why they would want to sniff you out. If anything, it makes me think of Hannibal Lector and his "sssss-ssssss" thing and sniffing at Clarice Starling. Horrible.

Anyway, I'd better read the next chapter.....

[alatar]

In this chapter we lose Fatty Bolger, said to be a good friend of Frodo's, but never to really show up again. It's interesting that Fatty would rather play at being Frodo than to journey with his friend. Obviously he didn't know how deadly such a choice could have been (it's been said that, inside even the fattest hobbit, there exists down deep - almost buried - the legs of a sprinter).

[Thinlómien]

I thought I'd only post when I've read this and the following chapter but this discussion and my reading pace are so pitiful that I had a change of plans...

I like Merry very much in this chapter. He seems to be a natural born organizer of stuff. And he's such a lovely person too. Or what would you say of this quote?

"It all depends on what you want," put in Merry. "You can expect us to stick to you through thick and thin - to the bitter end. And you can trust us to keep any secret of yours - closer than you keep it yourself. But you cannot trust us to let you face trouble alone, and go off without a word. We are your friends, Frodo."

It never struck me like it did now, but it's so very true, and so very beautifully said. One more piece of proof that Tolkien was a wise guy with a gift for phrasing his thoughts in a touching manner.

I also find it interesting how easily Merry found out about the Ring. Makes me think that it wouldn't have been to odd if someone else had known about it too...

[Mister Underhill]

"Haste makes waste," we often say here, which amounts to the same.

Originally Posted by alatar

Okay, so I just want to show that I'm not crazy. Anyway, here are direct quotes from "Three is Company" that made me think that 'sniffing' was to be a big deal... [snip]

Almost as anticlimatic as this post.

I have a feeling this might be a criticism born of over-familiarity.

Try to think back to before you knew all there was to know about the Nazgûl (admittedly not much, relatively speaking, but still). The sniffing and snuffling, I think, is definitely an effective way to signal that these Riders are not human, that there's something weird (in all senses of that word) about them. Also it provides a nice bit of suspense when Frodo realizes that although he is out of sight, he is not effectively hidden from his pursuer -- it's only luck (Providence?... deus ex machina?... here we go...) that saves him.

We're a little jaded about supernatural creatures nowadays. You can't throw a stone into popular culture without hitting one. I think all that business about them not seeing the world of light as we do, but they can see through their horses' eyes and use men and other creatures as spies is pretty nifty. Put it in the context of the mid-50's and it's even less anticlimactic.