Numenoreans attacking the Valar

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Lindale

Begging your pardon, but doesn't the very spirit-ness of the Valar make them powerful?

No. Spirits can't impact the physical world as much as an incarnate. That's why Morgoth and Sauron became incarnate to the point that they did- to gain greater power over things.

And the example you cite, Melian- notice that she is an Ainu that became fully incarnate. She ceased to be a floaty-spirit-thing. You think she could've done the whole girdle/fence had she not become incarnate?

And the Valar's control over nature- it doesn't do them that much good against the Numenoreans, does it? I mean, what are they going to do, make the Pelori fall down on them? For one, I don't think it was such a simple thing to do (they can't just snap their fingers and make it happen- it's not magic). In addition, they'd kill lots of their own by doing something so insane. They might destroy the whole land. And I'd bet they couldn't do all that much on the ocean either. The armada was larger than they could possibly sink, and the Numenoreans were amazing mariners.

Now, I agree with LMP that it is possible that the Valar might have indeed lacked the authority to fight the Numenoreans (though you'd think they had the right to defend their land). But I don't agree that it is a given that they had the power. According to the text, it was the greatest force of war ever. Ever.

And don't give me the "but they were Elves" argument. Elves were not necessarily greater warriors than men. Turin for instance, was said to be as agile as any Elf, but stronger, so it's not a given that Elves are faster than men. What probably is a given is that the Numenoreans were bigger and stronger than nearly all the Elves in Valinor.

Mac's point is very good. Isn't it telling that Sauron's army was so scared they didn't even try to fight them? And that Numenorean army wasn't even as great as the one sent to Valinor.