Tol-in-Gaurhoth LVII - Chess Game for Middle Earth: Game Thread

[Mnemosyne]

*long whistle*

So, the basic question is, do the Queen's powers go through or not, right?

Self-interest says "yes," but a coinflip is a heckuvan entertaining way to go (especially if my side wins after it all!)

I'll try to approach this from as unbiased a perspective as I can:

1). If the Queen's triple vote pick does not go through, the game is decided by chance.
2). If the Queen's triple vote pick does go through, the game is decided by her judgment.

So 2). looks marginally better, but it's still not quite fair...

If we want some reaaaaaally interesting Night dynamics, what if to even out the race we gave the last Wolf an extra kill?

Game is now decided by Queen's and Wolf's judgment, a nice little "guess what I'm thinking" dance. Also really stressful, and would slightly skew the stats in the Wolf's favor, since the Queen could pick the (surviving) cobbler.

And just to be sure: did the pick go in before or after narration came up? "same minute" does not equal "same time."

[Mnemosyne]

Could we maybe have some veteran WWers who weren't in this game weigh in?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I know I was in this game, but as a dead player, my opinion isn't biased by wanting to win any more (I already lost, and I was only ever on my own team anyway):

As the BQ, I was taken out by order of PMs before I could do anything, and we - at least you and I - know quite well that what I was going to do would have changed game dynamics pretty significantly. Also, Shasta, remember what we talked about? I wasn't the start of the precedent for timing determining action. It's only fair that the WQ be removed by the same set of process rules.

Humbly,
L

[Durelin]

I say the White Queen goes down before she can do a thing.

[wilwarin538]

hmmm, I guess you should just stick to however you've been doing it up until this point, it wouldn't be fair to change the rules all of a sudden, besides, it's not like either option completely gurantees a win for a specific side, from what I understand either way you go both teams still have a chance of winning.

So I suppose your only option is to let the WQ die, it sucks for the White team but it's really only fair.

[satansaloser2005]

Meh, I know I'm dead but I had a thought.


When my hunter pick went in I believe I was still poking you about the narration, so essentially mine and Fea's situation is the same as the one that was encountered toNight. The narration wasn't up, but I sent in my pick anyway because I knew exactly who I wanted to hunt, whereas Fea (may have) needed time to consider her kill. Still, since my pick went in before hers she was rendered immobile so her actions weren't acknowledged.


I know it seems a bit hypocritical given what I told you (Shasta) on IM, but now that my situation comes to mind I realize that neutralizing the White Queen's choices is the only fair way to proceed. I apologize for not thinking of it sooner and thus probably giving you a bit of a headahce, but since the situations are the same, I think they should be handled the same, even if it means my side may/will lose.


In the future, however, I would suggest that if a mod goes by PM order he/she requires that players wait a certain amount of time before PMs are accepted, even if it's just 10 minutes, so that people have a chance to read the narration and make their picks/kills with that information available to them. I would actually not suggest going by PM order at all (given time zones and other circumstances that may make it difficult for players to be present right after the deadline) because it isn't quite fair to those involved.


I should probably fade back into the shadows now but I wanted to put my two cents in for all to see, and of course I'll accept your final decision with as much grace as is possible for me.


Great game either way everyone. Look forward to seeing you all in a proper post game discussion!

Love,
~~Sally~~

[Brinniel]

At this point, I think it's really too late to change from your original decision, Shasta. Already halfway into the Night and knowing more information than I should, I just have an unfair advantage. And quite honestly while Mnemo's suggestion was an interesting one, I am too stressed and frustrated to be given the pressure of making yet another decision. And we all know anyway that whatever decision I make, it'd just be the wrong one.

Am I peeved to find out that I was killed before I had even finished reading the narration? Of course. I find it unfair that while the wolf was able to write her PM before the end of the Day since she did already knew the results of the lynch and could immediately hit the submit button at deadline. I didn't have a chance to even process the information from Rikae's death before it was all over for me. But please keep in mind that I don't mean to offend and I am not mad at anyone, but merely at the situation. Because I realise now that the game was over before yesterDay even began since the wolves already had the advantage (and please don't tell me again that this game was unbalanced against the baddies since obviously if it was, you wouldn't be winning).

Yes, I realise the outcome of the Night is due to PM order, which is why I won't make a pick even if you ask for it. After all, even if the wolf didn't submit her kill within 30 seconds of deadline, I probably wouldn't have come to a decision in time. It was late and I was exhausted with analysing everything for hours each day, and while I love WW, I do have a life and other things to do...plus midterms this week. So in all fairness, I probably wouldn't have had made a pick until today since I was basically braindead by 1am. I'll mention though, I didn't realise until late yesterDay Night that the Night went by PM order and how much it affected the outcome of the game. On one hand Night by PM order does seem like an interesting idea. On the other, when the players are spread out across the world it can put some people at a disadvantage. For example, if Kath had been the White Queen, there is absolutely no way she could've beaten the wolf by PM order since deadline is 6am for her. I'm not saying to stop using the Night by PM order technique, but this is just something to keep in mind for the future.

It's really up to you, Shasta, what you want to do. It's not my decision to make, so I could care less. Either do a coin toss or just let the wolves win. Because if in the end the game is determined by a race to who can PM the fastest, then the wolves certainly deserve to win since they are much quicker at making decisions than I can ever be (not saying they don't deserve it anyway; I would've never figured them out were I an ordo). Though if Night goes by PM order again, I do request that it's stated in the rules so that players are warned ahead of time. And that way I can sit it out since I already know I could never win by timing being one of the most indecisive people ever (I never submit my choices until barely before deadline). I already feel bad enough that I lost this game for my team; I just don't want to let it happen again.

If I hadn't already promised Sally I'd play in her game, I would take a break from WW as I probably should. This is the third game in a row I've screwed up. Seriously, something must be wrong with me.

Anyway, if you do decide on a coin flip, I too request that you do it via live feed. It'd certainly make my day more interesting. Or you could take my original suggestion and simply let Mith win instead.

[Brinniel]

Oh, and I forgot to mention:

I don't know if you are planning to start a Day 6, but I wouldn't bother. We already know what the outcome will be, as it's quite obvious. You might as well make a decision as soon as you're ready to. Anyway, it'll relieve the tension for all of us.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

With those opinions and those of a few PMs I've received, I've decided to decide the game by coin-flip since that's what the outcome of a Day 6 would be.

I also don't think I'll be hosting again. That should make some of you happy.