For in that sleep of death what dreams may come.

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Originally Posted by davem

Ok - slightly different angle ... surely, from a theistic pov (& admittedly I'm only a 'cultural', as opposed to a 'practicing', Christian, so I may be a bit out on this) God's perspective is kind of equivalent to this 'observer 2' in that He sees the whole of creation at once, past, present & future (as we would label them), & hence from His perspective today has "already been done & recorded". Thus, such an experience (assuming He permitted it, or gifted it) would be possible for an individual. In fact, one could argue that this is evidence for a direct intervention of Eru in Middle-earth as only he could gift this experience - for instance as a way of comforting & inspiring Frodo in his dream.

That makes sense, until you get God too into it...and that's probably a whole 'nother discussion, as I always get creeped out when discussing timeless eternal beings dipping His/Her/It/Their toes in the water now and then, as what does that do to the waters of time, what does it do to a timeless being, and then you start wondering about Heisenberg uncertainty as the observer has an effect of what is observed.

Certainly it doesn't at all imply that the future is 'pre-determined' - unless you're arguing that observer 1's journey down the river is 'pre-determined' because the river already exists & 'observer 2' can see what is around the next bend before 'observer 1' does.

I would say that in Arda, major rivers of time are 'predetermined.' Like if you were to pitch something into a local Pittsburgh river, eventually it will end up in the Mississippi (should I have my geography right). It may take a short or long route, may get stuck along the way, may go over or through the lock, but eventually it's going down stream, unless I catch up and remove it.

Minor tributaries may have no more 'predeterminism' than that they run down hill.

'Observer 2' knows what 'observer 1' is going to see simply because he has a different perspective. That doesn't invalidate 'observer 1's' experience, or mean that he has no freedom of choice, or turn him into some kind of robot. If God knows what I will do as completely as He knows what I have done (which He must do if he is omniscient) does that mean that I am not free to do what I want, & am therefore not responsible for my actions, & never have been - or does it simply mean that he, being transcendent, can see 'past, present & future' as an eternal 'Now'.

As above.

And I won't even mention that everything you do is determined by your genes, and those genes by the Theory of Everything (currently in the works).