WW LXI: Grimm Tales

[the phantom]

Well, that's a bit of bad luck that the Princess found the Frog early.

So it turns out my instinct of not wanting to lynch Boro or Mith was right.

Originally Posted by me

And perhaps Mith doesn't know anything about Boro, but does know something about herself, but can't say anything about it.

So yeah, that was right. Unfortunately, she was acting odd and so that threw me off just enough to make me hesitate launching an all out "Please Save Mith!" campaign. But in hindsight we can now see that her behavior and comments were due to RL reasons.

Well, this means that on Day 1 the baddies had no interest in saving Boro from lynching, which means they were free to toss up anyone they wanted. Shasta made his charge very late, so even if he is a baddie I doubt the vote could tell us anything about his helpers. So, I think the best I can do with the Day 1 vote is say that the Baddies could be hiding most anywhere.

And yesterday's voting depends largely upon Izzy's guilt. If she's innocent then perhaps Nerwen and Agan and maybe Eomer don't look so good, as well as maybe Inzil. If she's up to no good then maybe Green and McCaber look suspicious. Or if Eomer is evil then maybe Gwath and Shasta don't look great.

Anyway, I can only hope the Seer is gathering some good information and can help us out at some point later.

[the phantom]

For today I'm looking to preserve McCaber and Mira, and probably Agan and Shasta. I'm not sure about Green. I want to take a closer look at Izzy, Nerwen, and Eomer. Though they could save me the trouble by just telling me if they're bad. How about it, laddie? Are you the RB?

[the phantom]

Oh, almost forgot to ask- Shasta...

Yesterday you miscounted the vote, and gave Mith only one vote when she actually had two.

Was that because you are Hansel and had used your power to make Boro's vote not count and thus when you counted you knew his wasn't real?

[Gaurcrist]

I will share what I am thinking about who is bad.

Baddies:
Phantom (just plain mean)
Eomer
Greenie

[Inziladun]

If there's a bright spot in this for me, at least my read of Boro was correct and he wasn't a baddie. That tells me I might be getting a bit better at figuring things out.
Speaking of baddies, it's high time we found one.
I want to hear from McCaber some more. He never did explain his comment in #186, despite repeated requests to do so. I'd also like to see more of Fea, Shasta, and Gwath.
I still have some misgivings about Kath, but as no one else seems to feel the same way, perhaps I'm simply wrong (it has happened on occasion).

[Gaurcrist]

Well, maybe Phantom is bad. Well, you might say that I just want to lynch him to get back at him and, yes, maybe that is true, but also maybe he is actually a baddie. Maybe he is acting like a baddie in order to make us think we should vote for him and then say, "Wait! He wouldn't act like a baddie!" Well, even if he isn't bad, it seems like he wanted people to die. Let's take a look at what he said.

Originally Posted by
So it turns out my instinct of not wanting to lynch [B

Boro[/B] or Mith was right.

Oh yes, you know all O mighty Phantom

Doesn't it seem suspicious that he would pop up saying, "Oh, I knew I should have done that!" right after someone was killed. If you wanted to save them, Phantom, you would have campaigned. Well, according to what I have just said, I will vote Phantom.

++Phantom

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Gaurcrist

Doesn't it seem suspicious that he would pop up saying, "Oh, I knew I should have done that!" right after someone was killed. If you were right, Phantom, you would have campaigned. Well, according to what I have just said, I will vote Phantom.

I'm on the fence about phantom. I don't have a strong feeling of him one way or the other right now. He could be a gifted villager accomplishing all sorts of good behind the scenes, or an immensely crafty evildoer who knows just what to say to allay suspicion. I feel a bit better that even those who have played with him before seem as uncertain as I.

[McCaber]

That's just what phantom does. And to be honest, he was indeed against lynching either one of them.

Sorry about the lack of explanation for my comment. It's as simple as I thought Boro was handing out gifted cues, and I was willing to wait another day to see what would become of it. I wasn't getting the same from Nienna, so I made a decision.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Hoom hrm, Agan, I said that I thought Mith was giving out Seer-hints - not that I believed her in any way. That's why I didn't try to save her. And why does it look from the way I behaved that I guessed she was the Fair Maiden? Pray tell how Mith was behaving like the Fair Maiden?

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Gaurcrist

If you wanted to save them, Phantom, you would have campaigned.

I did vote for a different candidate and shopped around to see who else would vote for me. So I did mount an attempt to save them. What I didn't do is go completely out on a limb, primarily because there were some unexplained comments being made by Mith. It is only now after the fact that we can see there were other things (RL) beneath the surface that inspired those comments.

Besides myself, I note that Agan is the only other one who has't voted for a proven innocent yet. Is she good and right, or is she evil and crafty and simply knows how to keep her hands clean?

*waits for Shasta to show up*

EDIT: forgot Sally was dead

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Eomer

Pray tell how Mith was behaving like the Fair Maiden?

She gave that quote from Morwen ("I am spent, I go with the sun"), and the story of Morwen's life is that she lost her children.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by the phantom

She gave that quote from Morwen ("I am spent, I go with the sun"), and the story of Morwen's life is that she lost her children.

Aganzir is going to have to forgive my ignorance of Tolkien lore, then.

[Isabellkya]

Well someone crapped on toast this morning.

Sorry Mith. I take partial responsibility in your death. I didn't think even the newborn wolf-pups would latch onto and wagon my vote. Which in all honesty is a new thing for me, not being around at deadline. It really gives one a headache, voting hours before the arrival of deadline. You vote for someone you find suspicious, but will the nasties jump on the wagon closer to deadline?


I'll have to re-read yesterDays events close to deadline. As I didn't notice Shasta miscounted a vote. Though when I read it yesterday morning, I was quite irritated I wasn't around at deadline to retract my vote after Shasta voted for Mith. Hypocritical much? I seem to recall you mentioning something about not showing reasons. I don't recall you giving any reasons for suspicions on Mith.

phantom, Sally is dead.

[Nerwen]

Nerwen's Helpful Hints For Newbies, Vol 1

Originally Posted by Gaurcrist

I will share what I am thinking about who is bad.

Baddies:
Phantom (just plain mean)
Eomer
Greenie

Okay... that's not sharing your thoughts, Gaurcrist. "Sharing your thoughts" would mean saying why you think those three are bad.

Now on to the next one:

Originally Posted by Gaurcrist

Well, maybe Phantom is bad. Well, you might say that I just want to lynch him to get back at him and, yes, maybe that is true, but also maybe he is actually a baddie.

Well, yes, maybe he is. This is Werewolf... sort of the whole point of the game is that anyone might be a baddie.

Originally Posted by Gaurcrist

he is acting like a baddie in order to make us think we should vote for him and then say, "Wait! He wouldn't act like a baddie!"

Why is he "acting like a baddie"? (This is not to say that I trust the phantom... you can just never tell whether he's evil or not.)

Originally Posted by Gaurcrist

, even if he isn't bad, it seems like he wanted people to die. Let's take a look at what he said.

Gaurcrist, the quote you give here ("So it turns out my instinct of not wanting to lynch Boro or Mith was right") has nothing– nothing at all– to do with your description of it. Can't you see that?

...And then you vote tp for saying he was glad he hadn't lynched a known innocent!

Look... you just can't vote people on grounds like that. It's a good way to get yourself lynched. Perhaps not this time around, but that's only because you're new and for meta-game reasons, like the fact that that wolf-cubs usually get advice from their elders, and that a wolf is unlikely to quit like you did.

Actually, though, you could still be LRC and have been turned last Night. Hmmn. I hadn't thought of that until just then.

Originally Posted by the phantom

She gave that quote from Morwen ("I am spent, I go with the sun"), and the story of Morwen's life is that she lost her children.

But– are you saying you noticed that at the time, phantom? And realized she was the Fair Maiden? I didn't.


Anyway.. the problem is that since both Boro and Mith were innocent, it's hard to learn much from the voting. At least not while we're in the dark about Izzy and Shasta.

I hesitate to say, "lynch one of them just to see"... but we would get information that way.

But there's also all the throwaway votes yesterDay. I think they'd bear looking at, particularly the late ones (Eomer for Shasta and Inziladun for Kath.)

EDIT:X'd since the phantom at #394.
EDIT2:Added quote.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

But– are you saying you noticed that at the time, phantom? I didn't.

I can't remember precisely when I spotted it. She made that statement before I showed up and with less than 30 minutes left I was frantically trying to get caught up as well as keep up with current happenings. I think I had noticed it when I made my post at 22 minutes till, in which I told Boro "Maybe Mith knows something about herself but cannot say anything about it", which showed that I was leaning towards her being a Goodie under orders not to reveal.

As I said earlier, taken by itself I might have mounted a stronger effort to save her, but her other statements confused me. Such as-

Originally Posted by Mith

Well I know I can't trust you at all Boromir. Not one single word.

Originally Posted by Mith

No, I don't think I know you at all.

I was thinking to myself, "Only the Seer could 'know' she can't trust someone. Is that what she's claiming? But then she might as well reveal if that's what she means." Due to the fact that her words were inconsistent with any role I could think of, I didn't go all out into Mith-saving mode. It's a shame RL intruded the way it did. Things could very well have turned out much better.

[Gaurcrist]

Look... you just can't vote people on grounds like that. It's a good way to get yourself lynched.

Lynch me then.

[Aganzir]

I don't know what Shasta is up to, I've never seen him behave like that. Maybe it's just that he got some attention.

++Izzy

Her Shasta suspicion is weird & she was trying to downplay things that pointed towards Boro & Eomer's not being wolves.

Sorry I have to go, no time for more. I doubt very much I'm going to make it back in time, although I suppose there's a slight chance I can do so...

[Kath]

So I'm going to have a speedy look at what's been going on toDay and then vote. We're off out in not too much time I think.

Lari - is ill so I guess gets a free pass for toDay.

Agan - says Eomer looks wolvish if he thought Mith was the Seer but didn't bother trying to save her.

phantom - feels only knowledge of Izzy's role will tell us about the voters. Makes sense. Wants to look at Izzy, Nerwen and Eomer. Questions Shasta.

Gaurcrist - list of 'bads' but no reasons. Despite the way it's said, mildly fair point on phantom. There really is no point in saying 'guess I was right' after the fact. But then most of us do that. Votes phantom, whom he really seems to have taken against.

Inzil - I hate to say this because it's me who you're finding suspicious, but don't give up on your suspicions because no one else is sharing them. Unless they're the Seer or a wolf no one in the village has any more knowledge than you do, and are no more likely to be right. Anyway, apart from that wants to hear more from McCaber, Fea, Shasta and Gwath. Now I agree about most of those but Shasta has been pretty vocal. Says he has no idea about phantom.

McCaber - defends phantom. Explains himself, fairly I feel.

Izzy - says Shasta is hypocritical because he voted Mith without giving reasons. Was this the case?

Right sorry this is as far as I'm able to get. I'm actually not very happy about Eomer. I feel that my reasoning from yesterDay is fair and his response to suspicions seems to be to roll his eyes at them which, if he's innocent, isn't a great way to deal with them if only because it gets people's backs up! Otherwise I'm not thrilled by Gaurcrist, two Days in the village and we're still not getting reasons for things and Izzy because she hasn't explained herself and there's only half an hour until deadline.

So:

++EOMER

[Gwathagor]

Hey, sorry again I wasn't around yesterDay. THere wasn't anything I could really do about it. But, I'm here now, and I'll be in and out throughout the day.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Well, that's a bit of bad luck that the Princess found the Frog early.

But hardly surprising, given that the frog wanted to be found. And although the lovers die together, it's also often easier to process one's thoughts with someone else and reach conclusions, so a united lover pair certainly isn't a disadvantage.

Anyway now one third of us are baddies. We could pretty much roll dice to decide who to lynch and our chances of getting a baddie wouldn't be considerably worse, they'd possibly be even better considering the number of people with few posts.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I still have some misgivings about Kath, but as no one else seems to feel the same way, perhaps I'm simply wrong (it has happened on occasion).

I don't know why but this comment bothers me. If you suspect her, point out why instead of just saying you have some vague misgivings about her. At the moment it looks like you're just testing the ice to see if anyone else could start suspecting Kath, and when not, you back off immediately.

Originally Posted by Gaurcrist

Doesn't it seem suspicious that he would pop up saying, "Oh, I knew I should have done that!" right after someone was killed.

Not really, mainly because my thoughts about lynching them were pretty similar to his. I didn't specifically want to save them, either, because they were acting really weird and it looked like there was something to it. But apparently that something wasn't in-game...
And as for that gloating, it's simply like him.

I'm still flip-flopping on Greenie. The way she flip-flopped on Cab & Shasta looked innocent but her posting near the deadline & her vote looked somehow... too calculating.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Hoom hrm, Agan, I said that I thought Mith was giving out Seer-hints - not that I believed her in any way. That's why I didn't try to save her. And why does it look from the way I behaved that I guessed she was the Fair Maiden? Pray tell how Mith was behaving like the Fair Maiden?

I didn't connect the Morwen quote to lost children, but she asked for one more day which I interpreted as a FM hint (since I had said on day 1 that her chances were best if she used all her guesses on day 3), and also "I am running out of time one way or another and "I maun dree my weird"." looked vaguely Fair Maidenish to me.
And then you posted that "there's certainly an option for one day" comment. Now, you see, I am a non-native speaker, but how I interpreted it was "You don't need that extra day if you guess five people already today".
And then you voted for someone who had no chance of being lynched, which looked pretty much like "tee-hee lynch a possible gifted, but oh I have so much difficulties deciding who to vote!"

Originally Posted by the phantom

Besides myself, I note that Sally and Agan are the only other two who haven't voted for a proven innocent yet.

Well since sally doesn't seem to be here to defend herself right now, I can do it for her - I'm rather convinced she voted for an innocent on day 1. And as for Aganzir, I'd like to think she's both good and right but we don't know it for sure as long as the village stubbornly refuses to listen to her wise counsel!

Originally Posted by phantom

*waits for Shasta to show up*

I thought it best to inform you that I read that as "waits for Shasta to grow up". You're such a gentleman, phantom.

edit: xed with Eomer (yes I think I have to forgive you since I didn't get that reference myself, either) & Izzy (bah why did you tell him sally's dead?)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

If Mith was going to be killed then forgive my bluntness but it didn't really matter too much to the village unless she was the Seer. I told her that, if she was the Seer, don't fret too much, stop being so darn suspicious, and get one more night (because the Ranger would surely protect her) and then we'd still have some use of her info.

The way it turned out, she just confused matters. She wasn't the Seer so why does it matter too much that we lynch her instead of yet another innocent?

So that's all I was doing in my 'wink wink' communication with Mith yesterday.

And why was she so convinced about Shasta?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

As for my "throwaway" vote, I already explained that I couldn't decide between Boro and Mith. Izzy was only there because people reasoned like me and volunteered her name. They got in early so they can avoid accusations of being "throwaway". Thing is, I had wanted to vote for Shasta just about all day but held my vote to follow discussion. I still find it curious that no-one else voted for him (I think no-one else did?).

I couldn't make any conclusions on the three names offered to me so stuck with my own choice. You're welcome to see that as suspicious but I'll have to disagree.