WW LXI: Grimm Tales

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Gaurcrist

If you wanted to save them, Phantom, you would have campaigned.

I did vote for a different candidate and shopped around to see who else would vote for me. So I did mount an attempt to save them. What I didn't do is go completely out on a limb, primarily because there were some unexplained comments being made by Mith. It is only now after the fact that we can see there were other things (RL) beneath the surface that inspired those comments.

Besides myself, I note that Agan is the only other one who has't voted for a proven innocent yet. Is she good and right, or is she evil and crafty and simply knows how to keep her hands clean?

*waits for Shasta to show up*

EDIT: forgot Sally was dead

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Eomer

Pray tell how Mith was behaving like the Fair Maiden?

She gave that quote from Morwen ("I am spent, I go with the sun"), and the story of Morwen's life is that she lost her children.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by the phantom

She gave that quote from Morwen ("I am spent, I go with the sun"), and the story of Morwen's life is that she lost her children.

Aganzir is going to have to forgive my ignorance of Tolkien lore, then.

[Isabellkya]

Well someone crapped on toast this morning.

Sorry Mith. I take partial responsibility in your death. I didn't think even the newborn wolf-pups would latch onto and wagon my vote. Which in all honesty is a new thing for me, not being around at deadline. It really gives one a headache, voting hours before the arrival of deadline. You vote for someone you find suspicious, but will the nasties jump on the wagon closer to deadline?


I'll have to re-read yesterDays events close to deadline. As I didn't notice Shasta miscounted a vote. Though when I read it yesterday morning, I was quite irritated I wasn't around at deadline to retract my vote after Shasta voted for Mith. Hypocritical much? I seem to recall you mentioning something about not showing reasons. I don't recall you giving any reasons for suspicions on Mith.

phantom, Sally is dead.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Izzy

phantom, Sally is dead.

Ah, yes, so she is. Sorry.

*goes and fixes*

She was so quiet this game I guess I didn't notice the difference.

[Isabellkya]

"However, refusal to share thoughts isn't generally the greatest way to help innocents." ~ Shasta in #291.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Persons of Interest (re: possible fairytale characters gone wrong)

Aganzir: I think she's still mad at me for last game. Also, her comment about Lommy in her first post today rang a bell for me. It was a nice, shiny bell. A "For Whom The Bell Tolls" type bell.

Gwath: Given that I voted Boro yesterday to be consistent... no, you're not allowed to call me a hypocrite! That was yesterday! This is today! And I feel like he stole my reason from yesterday to hide that his vote is bandwagon-worthy.

Nerwen: I really, really, really think she's innocent. Obviously this means she is evil and should be lynched ASAP, according to my performance last game. Faulty wiring in the head, and mist in the crystal ball, I'm telling you.

Fea: She's under my radar. She's NEVER under my radar. What's going on?!

McCaber: Under my radar (as usual). I want to lynch him (as usual). However, I'm going to push past my prejudice (as usual) and vote someone else (as usual).

I don't see Mith here.

#299 he votes and miscounts the vote tally. I suppose you wanted to keep your vote amongst those already voted for. But why not Fea whom was on your "possible fairytale characters gone wrong" list? Or why not vote for someone you actually found suspicious?

As well given what you said to Gaurcrist in #291. Where are your reasons for voting Mith? You gave reasons why you wouldn't vote for Boro and Eomer.

X'd since my last post.

[Nerwen]

Nerwen's Helpful Hints For Newbies, Vol 1

Originally Posted by Gaurcrist

I will share what I am thinking about who is bad.

Baddies:
Phantom (just plain mean)
Eomer
Greenie

Okay... that's not sharing your thoughts, Gaurcrist. "Sharing your thoughts" would mean saying why you think those three are bad.

Now on to the next one:

Originally Posted by Gaurcrist

Well, maybe Phantom is bad. Well, you might say that I just want to lynch him to get back at him and, yes, maybe that is true, but also maybe he is actually a baddie.

Well, yes, maybe he is. This is Werewolf... sort of the whole point of the game is that anyone might be a baddie.

Originally Posted by Gaurcrist

he is acting like a baddie in order to make us think we should vote for him and then say, "Wait! He wouldn't act like a baddie!"

Why is he "acting like a baddie"? (This is not to say that I trust the phantom... you can just never tell whether he's evil or not.)

Originally Posted by Gaurcrist

, even if he isn't bad, it seems like he wanted people to die. Let's take a look at what he said.

Gaurcrist, the quote you give here ("So it turns out my instinct of not wanting to lynch Boro or Mith was right") has nothing– nothing at all– to do with your description of it. Can't you see that?

...And then you vote tp for saying he was glad he hadn't lynched a known innocent!

Look... you just can't vote people on grounds like that. It's a good way to get yourself lynched. Perhaps not this time around, but that's only because you're new and for meta-game reasons, like the fact that that wolf-cubs usually get advice from their elders, and that a wolf is unlikely to quit like you did.

Actually, though, you could still be LRC and have been turned last Night. Hmmn. I hadn't thought of that until just then.

Originally Posted by the phantom

She gave that quote from Morwen ("I am spent, I go with the sun"), and the story of Morwen's life is that she lost her children.

But– are you saying you noticed that at the time, phantom? And realized she was the Fair Maiden? I didn't.


Anyway.. the problem is that since both Boro and Mith were innocent, it's hard to learn much from the voting. At least not while we're in the dark about Izzy and Shasta.

I hesitate to say, "lynch one of them just to see"... but we would get information that way.

But there's also all the throwaway votes yesterDay. I think they'd bear looking at, particularly the late ones (Eomer for Shasta and Inziladun for Kath.)

EDIT:X'd since the phantom at #394.
EDIT2:Added quote.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

But– are you saying you noticed that at the time, phantom? I didn't.

I can't remember precisely when I spotted it. She made that statement before I showed up and with less than 30 minutes left I was frantically trying to get caught up as well as keep up with current happenings. I think I had noticed it when I made my post at 22 minutes till, in which I told Boro "Maybe Mith knows something about herself but cannot say anything about it", which showed that I was leaning towards her being a Goodie under orders not to reveal.

As I said earlier, taken by itself I might have mounted a stronger effort to save her, but her other statements confused me. Such as-

Originally Posted by Mith

Well I know I can't trust you at all Boromir. Not one single word.

Originally Posted by Mith

No, I don't think I know you at all.

I was thinking to myself, "Only the Seer could 'know' she can't trust someone. Is that what she's claiming? But then she might as well reveal if that's what she means." Due to the fact that her words were inconsistent with any role I could think of, I didn't go all out into Mith-saving mode. It's a shame RL intruded the way it did. Things could very well have turned out much better.

[Gaurcrist]

Look... you just can't vote people on grounds like that. It's a good way to get yourself lynched.

Lynch me then.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Gaurcrist

Lynch me then.

Nice, Gaurcrist! Ha ha.

[Aganzir]

I don't know what Shasta is up to, I've never seen him behave like that. Maybe it's just that he got some attention.

++Izzy

Her Shasta suspicion is weird & she was trying to downplay things that pointed towards Boro & Eomer's not being wolves.

Sorry I have to go, no time for more. I doubt very much I'm going to make it back in time, although I suppose there's a slight chance I can do so...

[the phantom]

Since the deadline is pushed back, I'll definitely be around the final hour or so tomorrow.

I would say this day has been disappointing (as far as very little action), but we're pretty much still stuck on Day 1 at this point, so there isn't much we can do. We haven't found a Baddie yet, and until that happens it's going to be difficult to come up with anything.

So Fea's gotten a couple votes today. I haven't really taken a look at her thus far, but even if I did there isn't much to analyze. And Agan went for Izzy again. I'm tempted to do that as well in hopes that the voting yesterday may actually be proven to mean something.

Meh. I'm not even going to try and make a decision at this point. I'll show up in the morning with a clear head and go whatever direction seems good to me. Good night.

[Isabellkya]

I didn't believe Boro to be evil in any sense. So why would I try to make him look like a wolf?
How does one thing turn into thingS?

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I don't know what Shasta is up to, I've never seen him behave like that. Maybe it's just that he got some attention.

++Izzy

Her Shasta suspicion is weird & she was trying to downplay things that pointed towards Boro & Eomer's not being wolves.

Sorry I have to go, no time for more. I doubt very much I'm going to make it back in time, although I suppose there's a slight chance I can do so...

Wow. GUILTY.

(Bolding of the first two sentences mine.)

[Gwathagor]

Was that too terse? Let me expound.

If Aganzir is talking about the big post that Shasta made earlier toDay, Aganzir's remark doesn't make any sense because Shasta really didn't say anything particularly weird in that post. He did, however, direct some pointed comments in Aganzir's direction and it looks a lot to me like Aganzir is trying to brush it all off as nothin'. Aganzir's flippancy here and other places is making me suspicious.

[Gwathagor]

Alright then.

++Aganzir

Good night.

[Mirandir]

So I didn't find anything that would necessarily lead to me to believe that the wolves got seer-vibes from Gwath, but I did find something else interesting.

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Was that too terse? Let me expound.

If Aganzir is talking about the big post that Shasta made earlier toDay, Aganzir's remark doesn't make any sense because Shasta really didn't say anything particularly weird in that post. He did, however, direct some pointed comments in Aganzir's direction and it looks a lot to me like Aganzir is trying to brush it all off as nothin'. Aganzir's flippancy here and other places is making me suspicious.

Here Gwath finds Agan's comment about Shasta's earlier post suspicious. Both have since ended up dead. He also voted for Aganzir.

If Agan is a wolf as some people seem to believe (myself included), she could have killed Gwath at Night because he was onto her furry ways. Starting my case against her now.

[Kath]

So I'm going to have a speedy look at what's been going on toDay and then vote. We're off out in not too much time I think.

Lari - is ill so I guess gets a free pass for toDay.

Agan - says Eomer looks wolvish if he thought Mith was the Seer but didn't bother trying to save her.

phantom - feels only knowledge of Izzy's role will tell us about the voters. Makes sense. Wants to look at Izzy, Nerwen and Eomer. Questions Shasta.

Gaurcrist - list of 'bads' but no reasons. Despite the way it's said, mildly fair point on phantom. There really is no point in saying 'guess I was right' after the fact. But then most of us do that. Votes phantom, whom he really seems to have taken against.

Inzil - I hate to say this because it's me who you're finding suspicious, but don't give up on your suspicions because no one else is sharing them. Unless they're the Seer or a wolf no one in the village has any more knowledge than you do, and are no more likely to be right. Anyway, apart from that wants to hear more from McCaber, Fea, Shasta and Gwath. Now I agree about most of those but Shasta has been pretty vocal. Says he has no idea about phantom.

McCaber - defends phantom. Explains himself, fairly I feel.

Izzy - says Shasta is hypocritical because he voted Mith without giving reasons. Was this the case?

Right sorry this is as far as I'm able to get. I'm actually not very happy about Eomer. I feel that my reasoning from yesterDay is fair and his response to suspicions seems to be to roll his eyes at them which, if he's innocent, isn't a great way to deal with them if only because it gets people's backs up! Otherwise I'm not thrilled by Gaurcrist, two Days in the village and we're still not getting reasons for things and Izzy because she hasn't explained herself and there's only half an hour until deadline.

So:

++EOMER

[Gwathagor]

Hey, sorry again I wasn't around yesterDay. THere wasn't anything I could really do about it. But, I'm here now, and I'll be in and out throughout the day.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Well, that's a bit of bad luck that the Princess found the Frog early.

But hardly surprising, given that the frog wanted to be found. And although the lovers die together, it's also often easier to process one's thoughts with someone else and reach conclusions, so a united lover pair certainly isn't a disadvantage.

Anyway now one third of us are baddies. We could pretty much roll dice to decide who to lynch and our chances of getting a baddie wouldn't be considerably worse, they'd possibly be even better considering the number of people with few posts.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I still have some misgivings about Kath, but as no one else seems to feel the same way, perhaps I'm simply wrong (it has happened on occasion).

I don't know why but this comment bothers me. If you suspect her, point out why instead of just saying you have some vague misgivings about her. At the moment it looks like you're just testing the ice to see if anyone else could start suspecting Kath, and when not, you back off immediately.

Originally Posted by Gaurcrist

Doesn't it seem suspicious that he would pop up saying, "Oh, I knew I should have done that!" right after someone was killed.

Not really, mainly because my thoughts about lynching them were pretty similar to his. I didn't specifically want to save them, either, because they were acting really weird and it looked like there was something to it. But apparently that something wasn't in-game...
And as for that gloating, it's simply like him.

I'm still flip-flopping on Greenie. The way she flip-flopped on Cab & Shasta looked innocent but her posting near the deadline & her vote looked somehow... too calculating.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Hoom hrm, Agan, I said that I thought Mith was giving out Seer-hints - not that I believed her in any way. That's why I didn't try to save her. And why does it look from the way I behaved that I guessed she was the Fair Maiden? Pray tell how Mith was behaving like the Fair Maiden?

I didn't connect the Morwen quote to lost children, but she asked for one more day which I interpreted as a FM hint (since I had said on day 1 that her chances were best if she used all her guesses on day 3), and also "I am running out of time one way or another and "I maun dree my weird"." looked vaguely Fair Maidenish to me.
And then you posted that "there's certainly an option for one day" comment. Now, you see, I am a non-native speaker, but how I interpreted it was "You don't need that extra day if you guess five people already today".
And then you voted for someone who had no chance of being lynched, which looked pretty much like "tee-hee lynch a possible gifted, but oh I have so much difficulties deciding who to vote!"

Originally Posted by the phantom

Besides myself, I note that Sally and Agan are the only other two who haven't voted for a proven innocent yet.

Well since sally doesn't seem to be here to defend herself right now, I can do it for her - I'm rather convinced she voted for an innocent on day 1. And as for Aganzir, I'd like to think she's both good and right but we don't know it for sure as long as the village stubbornly refuses to listen to her wise counsel!

Originally Posted by phantom

*waits for Shasta to show up*

I thought it best to inform you that I read that as "waits for Shasta to grow up". You're such a gentleman, phantom.

edit: xed with Eomer (yes I think I have to forgive you since I didn't get that reference myself, either) & Izzy (bah why did you tell him sally's dead?)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

If Mith was going to be killed then forgive my bluntness but it didn't really matter too much to the village unless she was the Seer. I told her that, if she was the Seer, don't fret too much, stop being so darn suspicious, and get one more night (because the Ranger would surely protect her) and then we'd still have some use of her info.

The way it turned out, she just confused matters. She wasn't the Seer so why does it matter too much that we lynch her instead of yet another innocent?

So that's all I was doing in my 'wink wink' communication with Mith yesterday.

And why was she so convinced about Shasta?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

As for my "throwaway" vote, I already explained that I couldn't decide between Boro and Mith. Izzy was only there because people reasoned like me and volunteered her name. They got in early so they can avoid accusations of being "throwaway". Thing is, I had wanted to vote for Shasta just about all day but held my vote to follow discussion. I still find it curious that no-one else voted for him (I think no-one else did?).

I couldn't make any conclusions on the three names offered to me so stuck with my own choice. You're welcome to see that as suspicious but I'll have to disagree.

[the phantom]

And Nerwen, I really miss your odds! I was wanting to place some bets today.

How do these sound?

20-1: We lynch an Ordo.
24-1: There won't be a last minute voting flurry.
1-1: We lynch a Baddie.
9-1: Three people or more retract their votes.
5-1: Shasta puts on another "Phantom show".
24-1: These odds I'm giving are actually a coded message.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

And Nerwen, I really miss your odds! I was wanting to place some bets today.

Sorry... got caught up in picking on the new kid.

Okay, how about

Everybody ends up voting for the same person (20-1).

We lynch another gifted/special role (2-1).

Shasta is Rumpelstiltskin (50-1).

[Isabellkya]

Oh dear. Where are Nilp and Sally when you need a previous Days vote rundown.


YesterDay's voting.


Lari -> Boro. 458pm EST.

Voting early again because I won't have internet access again for awhile and am sleepy.

++Boro

I don't like the way he sounds as of right now.

Gaur -> Boro. 514pm EST.

In my opinion, there are two people who are acting quite strange, ever since the beginning. There are A Little Green and Boromir. I have one of those feelings in my gut about Boro, and he seems to be the most suspicious. Plus, I don't like his avatar. So, I will heed the teachings of Ocham's razor and choose Boromir.

++Boromir88

Kath -> Eomer. 645pm EST.

Hi sorry I seem to have run out of time completely this evening! I'm going to have to just vote. From the look at Lommy's posts from yesterDay the one person that popped out as potentially suspicious to me was:

++EOMER

I do find him suspicious so although I would have liked to go through the rest of the posts in more detail I am happy with this vote.

Mira -> Fea. 729pm EST.

++Fea

For the reason I cited earlier. Love you dear!

Fea - Nobody's said that Fea looks suspicious yet. That generally means that she's evil. It's always when no one thinks she's suspicious that she's really evil and ends up fooling us all right until the end.

Boro -> Mith. 812pm EST.

#267



Sally -> Eomer. 1105pm EST.

Eomer, Agan, and maybe Mith are still giving me bad vibes. Alas, I can't talk too long because the laptop battery's not going to last forever, but let's just say the tone of his posts seems rather wolf-ish to me. If I die for not having time to explain, so be it, but I will vote how I feel, and that is....

Gwath -> Boro. 145am EST.

On a second thought, there's no way I'll be up in time to vote, sooo I'll stick with yesterDay's vote, for the sake of consistency.

++Boromir88

Izzy -> Mith. 448am EST.

++Mith
For reasons stated in the previous post. I find the majority of her post content lacking. Banter. Spam.

Shasta -> Mith. 648am EST.

#299



Zil -> Kath. 753am EST.

I see some nice discussion has taken place while I slept.
My tentative good feeling about Boro doesn't seem to be shared much. I find that interesting, coming from those who know him better.
Mith.... now inferring the village won't have a chance without her? And Shasta gave his vote for her as well.
I'm inclined to do the same, but Kath....
The deadline will be here about the time I'm arriving at work, so I'm going with

Nerwen -> Izzy. 841am EST.

For the moment–

++Izzy.

Because of what I said earlier... which I admit is pretty thin grounds for voting someone... but I can't work out what's going on with Mith and Boro, and I don't see Eomer as particularly vote-worthy.

I may still retract and vote one of the favourites. Depends on what happens between now and DL

This post? #308



Agan -> Izzy. 845am EST.

++Izzy

I'd rather Boro or Mith didn't die today... But I'm here and can retract if that is for some reason needed.

Mith -> Izzy. 852am EST.


Phantom -> Izzy. 858am EST.

I'm way too tired for this.

++Izzy

Greenie -> Mith. 859am EST.

++ Mithalwen

Because I suspect her more than Boro or Izzy.

Eomer -> Shasta. 859am EST.

++SHASTA

Sorry, I just can't decide.

Caber -> Mith. 900am EST.

Well then. 5 of us left, and still no real answers. I'm in the same boat as Greenie here. None of these are a real choice for me.

++Mith

X'd since my last post, and left out Caber's vote.

[Mirandir]

Boro and sally, eh? I never would have guessed that. That being said, I'm going to go through their posts and look for hints. Then I'll start a suspicion list.

Oh, and Lari has food poisoning (we think) and won't be around.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Mira

Oh, and Lari has food poisoning (we think) and won't be around.

Well, that settles it. If Lari's going to die in RL anyway we might as well kill her off in the game too.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Actually, though, you could still be LRC and have been turned last Night. Hmmn. I hadn't thought of that until just then.

Where did that come from?

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

She wasn't the Seer so why does it matter too much that we lynch her instead of yet another innocent?

How come you're so certain about Izzy's innocence?

Anyway I'm going to sleep now. I'll pop in to vote in the morning but I doubt I'm going to post much. Sorry this is just a busy day.

And as for voting, I really feel like going for someone with few posts because there are too many of them and I don't want yet another quiet wolf victory.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

How come you're so certain about Izzy's innocence?

Hrm, hoom; if I was paranoid I'd be screaming at you twisting my words, Agan.

When I say "Why would it matter if we killed Mith rather than any other innocent", I refer not to Izzy or any particular villager.

It is a general rule, I believe, that no innocent should cause too much trouble if seeming in danger of being lynched. The way Mithalwen was carrying on yesterday, when she didn't have too many votes and nothing was decided, suggested that it was really, really bad that she might die. This is only true if she's the Seer. Obviously she wasn't, so I don't see why there was such a drama yesterday.

I am talking about Mithalwen's behaviour, early on in the day; you took my words out of context, and applied them to the end of the day, when Izzy was suddenly a genuine lynching candidate.