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Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
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#34 | ||||
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Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Minas Morgul
Posts: 431
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Thank you, Formendacil, you have brilliantly answered the questions for me! In fact you answered better than I could do it myself
![]() Quote:
Gondorians spoke Sindarin and named places in this language. Morgul means Black Sorcery, Witchcraft. If the Witch-King, the King of Witchcraft, the king of Black Sorcery, was known in Sindarin as "Aran Morgul", the King of Morgul, then the new place name would be "Minas Morgul" automatically. And both sides, Gondorians ad nazgul alike, could have started to use it independently. Formendacil has answered that one. Because he was the King of Black Sorcery, the Witch-king, not a person whose name translates as "Black Sorcery". Morgul was never a simple personal name, it was more like translation of the"Witch"-part in "the Witch-King" or the "sorcerer king" (But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king..) Quote:
What is interesting in this book is that the authors have quoted parts of previously unpublished Tolkien's "the Hunt for the Ring" manuscripts kept in the Marquette University. You must be familiar with other parts of these texts if you have Unfinished Tales. These new Tolkien texts constitute only a small part of the RC book, about 10 pages in whole, I believe, but they are very interesting. There are also excerpts from the unpublished Tolkien's "Time-Schemes" and "Nomenclature". I advise you to buy the book: two-three years ago I have bought a used RC book on Amazon UK for only 3 euros. Quote:
A good guess would be that Khamûl is a Black Tongue word. If so, please compare the words "nazgûl" and "Khamûl". The first Black Tongue word is no mystery: "nazgûl"= "ringwraith" "nazg"="ring" "gûl" or "ûl"="wraith" My guess that "ûl" in "Khamûl" also means "wraith", "shadow". And then it becomes obvious that it was the nickname given to the nazgûl after he had become a wraith, not at his birth. The "Shadow of the East" that goes after "ûl" (UT) may be a simple translation of the name. Especially considering that in the East there is a realm called "Khand", which quite probably means "Eastern land". So basically we have two nazgul, known in the Third Age as "The King of Black Sorcery/Witchcraft" and "The Wraith/Shadow of the East" respectively. Both nicknames have nothing to do with their original names as living Men and their original identities. There could have been other nazgul called "the Shadow of the South" or "the Shadow of Rhun" etc. Some may have got new names from Sauron in memory of the First Age evil heroes as "Gothmog" or well...Glaurung or Ancalagon ![]() Why new names for the nazgul?- because they have left their old identities behind. I don't think they have forgotten who they used to be, but this page in their lives is shut forever. Come on, it happens not only with nazgul. King Elessar had been called Estel in his youth, Thorongil and Aragorn later, but the name he will be remembered by in history is King Elessar. Moreover in ME a real name is a powerful thing, letting it be generally known makes one vulnerable. Remember Treebeard's reaction? Quote:
Last edited by Gordis; 07-16-2009 at 02:20 AM. |
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