How did Gollum escape from Moria ?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, it's just, the way I see him, that I believe he would try to remain as close to the Ring as possible until the very last moment, until there was really no chance that he could hide from the Orcs or whatever. Imagine all the crazy stuff he did and what he risked for the Ring.

[narfforc]

And Gollum existed and escaped from within the Misty Mountains without his Ring.

[alatar]

This issue has bothered me for some time.

Gollum is last seen peaking in on the Fellowship as they sleep outside the Chamber of Mazarbul in Moria. We next find him in a tree in the woods outside of Lothlorien. Much happens between points A and B.

As we all know, the Fellowship awakens, go into the Chamber, gets attacked, Gandalf brings the house down, the Fellowship flees, flies (you fools!) across the Bridge, which is destroyed behind them. Aragorn assumes command and keeps the company clipping along towards Celeborn's quarters. The Fellowship stops a few times, to look at a mere, to bandage the wounded, to wade and to sing. Despite all of this, they hope to make it to some place of safety before the orcs emerge from Moria to hunt them down.

So let's look at Gollum's possible route. We have to assume that he parts from the Company outside of the Chamber of Mazarbul, goes all the way back to where there is another passage, and starts his shadowing of the Fellowship anew.

Or did Gollum sneak past all Nine Walkers (including Aragorn) so to get ahead of them? Gollum obviously did not follow after the Ringbearer after Gandalf buries the Chamber, and so had to follow the Fellowship via another route. He could not have gone the 'main way,' out, as Gandalf remarks that, had the Fellowship done so, their exit from Moria would have been cut off via fire. Later, trolls bridge this fire/gap using slabs of stone. Was Gollum so extraordinary that he was able to make it past this trap that Gandalf and the orcs found so perplexing?

Or did he sneak past the Fellowship, and get on the other side of the Chamber, and so somehow stays in front of the Fellowship (on alert since the attack) as the Fellowship makes their way to the Bridge?

But let's say he is somewhere near the Fellowship as they make for the Bridge. He then must find another exit from Moria, as the Bridge is destroyed before he can use that way.

But let's assume that the Dwarves had built other ways out of Moria (though the Bridge was the main way), and that Gollum found and used one of these, which I assume were not guarded or were poorly guarded.

So assume Gollum escapes Moria somehow. He then actively pursues the Fellowship. Now, I'll concede that Aragorn is looking more forward than backward at this time, trying to get those thrust into his care to safety as quickly as possible. So let's say he doesn't see Gollum, who though trapped inside a mine for some time, is able to keep up with the Fellowship, moving as fast as possible to avoid orcs.

In daylight.

So, to recap: Gollum somehow gets past the greatest hunter of all time or finds an alternate route through a maze that almost stumps Gandalf, gets past a trap that would inhibit both Free People and orcs, gets across a chasm that, without a Bridge, keeps enemies from entering (or he finds an unguarded alternate passage), pursues the Fellowship unseen and travels rapidly despite suffering from deprivation and Yellow Face being in the sky.

Uh-huh.

My theory, based on what we read in the Books, is that the eagle Deus ex machina flies Gollum out of Moria, setting him down later across the Nimrodel.

These are the 'wings' that we see behind the Balrog...

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by alatar

Or did he sneak past the Fellowship, and get on the other side of the Chamber, and so somehow stays in front of the Fellowship (on alert since the attack) as the Fellowship makes their way to the Bridge?

But let's say he is somewhere near the Fellowship as they make for the Bridge. He then must find another exit from Moria, as the Bridge is destroyed before he can use that way.

But let's assume that the Dwarves had built other ways out of Moria (though the Bridge was the main way), and that Gollum found and used one of these, which I assume were not guarded or were poorly guarded.

That seems possible to me. Gollum had entered Moria from the east and had been there a while. He would have been much more likely to have known other routes around the road the Fellowship was forced to take. Aragorn and Gandalf had both once passed through Moria, but they presumably had been looking for the shortest and straightest ways through, so they wouldn't have known all ways leading to the Doors. And any Orcs would have been on the lookout for the Fellowship, not one little withered hobbit, so I don't think it's out of the question he could have got past them.

Originally Posted by alatar

So assume Gollum escapes Moria somehow. He then actively pursues the Fellowship. Now, I'll concede that Aragorn is looking more forward than backward at this time, trying to get those thrust into his care to safety as quickly as possible. So let's say he doesn't see Gollum, who though trapped inside a mine for some time, is able to keep up with the Fellowship, moving as fast as possible to avoid orcs.

Aragorn knew all about Gollum, or at least that's what he told Frodo.

'Ah!' said Aragorn. 'So you know about our little footpad, do you? He padded after us all through Moria and right down to Nimrodel.'

FOTR The Great River

Originally Posted by alatar

So, to recap: Gollum somehow gets past the greatest hunter of all time or finds an alternate route through a maze that almost stumps Gandalf, gets past a trap that would inhibit both Free People and orcs, gets across a chasm that, without a Bridge, keeps enemies from entering (or he finds an unguarded alternate passage), pursues the Fellowship unseen and travels rapidly despite suffering from deprivation and Yellow Face being in the sky.

Amazing what lust for the One Ring and a natual 'sneaking' tendancy could enable one to accomplish....

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

That seems possible to me. Gollum had entered Moria from the east and had been there a while. He would have been much more likely to have known other routes around the road the Fellowship was forced to take. Aragorn and Gandalf had both once passed through Moria, but they presumably had been looking for the shortest and straightest ways through, so they wouldn't have known all ways leading to the Doors.

That's fine; however, would Gollum have time to get 'round? He needed to keep the Fellowship in sight to see where they were going. Did he know for sure that they were going to the East Gate?

Note that, after the collapse of the Chamber of Mazarbul, even the orcs couldn't find a path to the Fellowship.

And any Orcs would have been on the lookout for the Fellowship, not one little withered hobbit, so I don't think it's out of the question he could have got past them.

Do we know if the orcs gave Gollum free reign?

Aragorn knew all about Gollum, or at least that's what he told Frodo.

Either Aragorn didn't think it important, or he really didn't know, but you'd think that if Aragorn knew that Gollum was close behind that he would have told the Elves. Their surprise and lack of knowledge about this strange creature means, to me, that Aragorn said nothing.

Amazing what lust for the One Ring and a natual 'sneaking' tendancy could enable one to accomplish....

Truly.

[Morsul the Dark]

Would Gollum have been trapped? I mean there are no waters (That I know of) in Moria that house fish. So he probably would have eaten Goblins as he did time to time in his old abode. He would have had to learn secret hidden ways. I understand the East Gate was protected by the bridge but at the same time it creates a tough point of advance for an outgoing army as well. They probably had special Outswinging doors hidden along the exit way. Which he found and frequented in his hunt.

[Lastande Took]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Would Gollum have been trapped? I mean there are no waters (That I know of) in Moria that house fish. So he probably would have eaten Goblins as he did time to time in his old abode. He would have had to learn secret hidden ways. I understand the East Gate was protected by the bridge but at the same time it creates a tough point of advance for an outgoing army as well. They probably had special Outswinging doors hidden along the exit way. Which he found and frequented in his hunt.

Good idea, but would the secret exiting doors password-protected as well?

I've just been wondering about this myself. Good thread.

[PrinceOfTheHalflings]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Would Gollum have been trapped? I mean there are no waters (That I know of) in Moria that house fish. So he probably would have eaten Goblins as he did time to time in his old abode. He would have had to learn secret hidden ways. I understand the East Gate was protected by the bridge but at the same time it creates a tough point of advance for an outgoing army as well. They probably had special Outswinging doors hidden along the exit way. Which he found and frequented in his hunt.

There had to be food. The Orcs ate something, so Gollum probably just stole some of that. He may have also snacked on the occasional unwary Orc. Actually he did steal food from the Orcs - Tolkien says so. I will provide the quote later in this post.

Gollum may have been more familiar with Moria than Aragorn or Gandalf since he'd actually spent more time in there. He was also more accustomed to padding around in dark places than they were. I daresay he preferred places like that. The only problem about being in Moria for Gollum was that it was stopping him from getting the Ring, at least until the Fellowship showed up.

What a welcome surprise that must have been for Gollum!

I imagine that after the destruction of the Chamber of Mazarbul he must have reasoned that heading for the exit was a sound idea. He should have realised that the Fellowship were fairly close to escaping and so hoped that they were aware of this fact too.

Could Gollum have escaped via the East Gate? Well, why not - if that's how he got into Moria! He was originally using Moria to travel from East to West - he tried to get out via the West Gate, but could not push the doors open. Tolkien says that it generally took two people to push the doors open and that Gollum was weak at that time from lack of food. Gollum got into Moria from the East. Either via the East Gate itself or some other less obvious entrance. So if Gollum could get into Moria from the East side, without being detected by the Orcs, which he did - then he could get out that way. There's no real problem or inconsistency here. If he got in that way, then he can get out that way.

The reason why Gollum didn't simply try to escape via this eastern route before is because he was heading for the Shire, which is in the west.

Let's read what the Good Professor says in Unfinished Tales, The Hunt for the Ring:

"...He was peculiarly fitted to survive in such straits, though at cost of great misery; but he was in great peril of discovery by the servants of Sauron that lurked in Moria, especially since such bare necessity of food as he must have he could only get by thieving dangerously. No doubt he had intended to use Moria simply as a secret passage westward, his purpose being to find "Shire" himself as quickly as he could; but he became lost, and it was a very long time before he found his way about.

It thus seems probable that he had not long made his way towards the West-gate when the Nine Walkers arrived. He knew nothing, of course, about the action of the doors. To him they would seem huge and immovable; and though they had no lock or bar and opened outwards to a thrust, he did not discover that. In any case he was now far away from any source of food, for the Orcs were mostly in the East-end of Moria, and was become weak and desperate, so that even if he had known all about the doors he still could not have thrust them open. It was thus a piece of singular good fortune for Gollum that the Nine Walkers arrived when they did."

If we think that the East Gate was too well guarded for Gollum to escape, then we can also assume that it was too well guarded for him to have entered that way in the first place - about five months earlier in August 3018. There must have been another way that didn't involve crossing the bridge - otherwise how could he have ever gotten into Moria?

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Would Gollum have been trapped? I mean there are no waters (That I know of) in Moria that house fish. So he probably would have eaten Goblins as he did time to time in his old abode. He would have had to learn secret hidden ways. I understand the East Gate was protected by the bridge but at the same time it creates a tough point of advance for an outgoing army as well. They probably had special Outswinging doors hidden along the exit way. Which he found and frequented in his hunt.

Ha I googled a question about Gollum’s lake vs the lake Gandalf and the Balrog fell, I had secretly hoped but doubted, they were one and the same, alas they are not. And this thread came up. Amazing so much discussion has been forgotten.

Anywho, I’ve been thinking about Gollum in Moria. The generally accepted version is he went there in an attempt to cut straight across. But looking at the map he was a prisoner in Mirkwood then escaped and headed towards the Shire. Moria is a far way south why wouldn’t he have gone due west and found his old hunting grounds? Granted the orca used their “front porch” to capture the dwarves but I have to believe those tunnels also held an exit to the west.

Gollum being in Moria is so strange to me.