Tol-in-Gaurhoth LXIX: Were-Librarians

[Nessa Telrunya]

Well, I fear being the first to vote, but RL restricts me from posting right up to the 1am deadline in my timezone. Now, going off of earlier musings of my own rather than the frenzied topics of Fea and Nienna is how I'm going to vote.

++Brinn


Now, before anyone demands the 'why', you can find my reasons already stated in post #119

[Shastanis Althreduin]

- Based on the Wilwa kill, I think Fea is innocent. The Fea I know wouldn't hide behind a no-trace kill (at least, I don't think she would.)

- Based on Mac's #106 - specifically this:

I do have to say that, reading Sally's later posts, I would probably have retracted to her. She criticised votes against her instead of suspicion against her and the way she tried to encourage people to vote Nienna doesn't look good either. Needless to say, this implies that Nienna is very probably innocent.

I think Mac could be guilty. Something about this strikes me as trying to share in the credit for the lynch of a librarian, and his vote for Nienna, while not the most suspicious thing about him, combines oddly with what he said about Sally encouraging people to vote for Nienna.

- Since I now begin to think badly of Mac, this post of Fea's catches my attention:

Mac is someone who I was worried about, but upon closer inspection, I think it was just me assuming that he might hypothetically be possibly someone to worry about, in theory. After I took a closer look at his posts, I do definitely think I was reading too much into them.

If Mac is in fact a wolf, I think this could be... something that I don't have the words for. It just looks odd, okay? Jeez.

- I agree with Nerwen's #109 (partially because she echoes my now-top-two suspects). I have to ask, though, why all this heaping suspicion on Nerwen?

- Fea mentions Nerwen again in #110, but Mac thinks her innocent in #111. I'm not sure which looks worse here, but I'm thing Mac for his 180.

- Boro's #113, especially this:

I had it narrowed down to a few, and was trying to think of some sort of good seerish hints to drop. So decided to use Princess Bride quotes. So, I picked sally as the fake dream, because of our history in the lover role, and I knew she'd get any PB reference.

This makes me feel pretty good about Boro, especially the hint thing. Just bad luck he picked on an actual baddie to hint to (and I feel stupid for not seeing the Princess Bride references myself; but then again, all the games with Phantom I've played and I haven't seen even one of his "hints" either.... guess I'm just bad at picking up hints. )

- Regarding Fea:

I daresay if I'm a were-librarian, the seer will already have dreamed of me and the village is well shot of me as soon as xe comes forth with the declaration, "Mon Dieu! Fea is, yet again, a wolf! We must kill her now!"

This quote seems Phantomish and I don't like it, especially since Fea was barely around Day 1.

- Nessa's #119 about Brinn seems well-thought-out, but I do have to wonder how much of Brinn's post was IC. Her reason for voting Nienna does seem weird, though; it might as well have been random, so why not just say that it was?

- This quote by Alonariel strikes me as odd:

How was the bandwaggon for Sally weak? She was practically on the hunt for Boro throughout the first half of Day 1, and then always reacting to the votes against her, rather than try and allay the suspicion that fueled those votes in the first place, as Mac said.

The first half of Day 1 was banter-only, really, by the command of the mods, so using that as a reason for voting seems strange. And then jumping on something that Mac has already said...Hmm.

- Mac again, #125:

Now slowly everybody: I was thinking aloud and ended up with it. I'm far away from saying that's how things are.

Except that you already said that! I don't like that you're trying to take back what you've said, Mac.

- Hakon's #129, about how we can rule out Alona, is wrong (as people have said, I think?) Newbieism doesn't preclude one from being a wolf.

Edit: X'ed with Formendacil.

[alonariel]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

- This quote by Alonariel strikes me as odd:

The first half of Day 1 was banter-only, really, by the command of the mods, so using that as a reason for voting seems strange. And then jumping on something that Mac has already said...Hmm.

I do seem to be agreeing with Mac a lot, don't I? Whether it was done intentionally or by coincidence, I find it amusing either way.

And although the moddesses stated that there were no hints in their narration, they didn't say that players couldn't hide hints in their own narrations: so why isn't what Sally said IC fair game for deciding whether or not to vote for her? It was her attitude IC and her subsequent defense against the votes for her that created suspicion, in my view.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by alonariel

I do seem to be agreeing with Mac a lot, don't I? Whether it was done intentionally or by coincidence, I find it amusing either way.

And although the moddesses stated that there were no hints in their narration, they didn't say that players couldn't hide hints in their own narrations: so why isn't what Sally said IC fair game for deciding whether or not to vote for her? It was her attitude IC and her subsequent defense against the votes for her that created suspicion, in my view.

Yes, and then you voted him.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

This quote seems Phantomish and I don't like it, especially since Fea was barely around Day 1.

This relates to the fact that the last two games or three games I played in, I was a wolf that was dreamed of on the first (or close to it) Night.

I mean... It's not arrogance so much as dead on truth: I get dreamed of.

Sidenote: It's really hard to play this game with Lari and Mira talking behind you. [/sidenote]

Okay, so now that I've finally caught up... I have very little to say except that Hakon is making n00b errors about telling who he suspects is a gifted, Boro is remaining reasonable...

Actually, that's about all I retained.

I think I'm supposed to be dying a friend's hair...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

This relates to the fact that the last two games or three games I played in, I was a wolf that was dreamed of on the first (or close to it) Night.

I mean... It's not arrogance so much as dead on truth: I get dreamed of.

Sidenote: It's really hard to play this game with Lari and Mira talking behind you. [/sidenote]

Okay, so now that I've finally caught up... I have very little to say except that Hakon is making n00b errors about telling who he suspects is a gifted, Boro is remaining reasonable...

Actually, that's about all I retained.

I think I'm supposed to be dying a friend's hair...

I know, but it's still Phantomish and thus annoying. I don't think it says that you're a wolf, I just think it's... annoying.

[Nienna]

Brinn is making me the most nervous right now. Her vote yesterday looks really suspicious. She basically jumped onto a bandwagon (for me) and gave me the leading vote. This seems like a wolf attempt to keep a bandwagon for a non-wolf going so that their fellow wolf doesn't get lynched. Nerwen and Shasta's vote after that for Sally then look innocent.

[Boromir88]

Top Chef Masters is coming on, so sorry with no Tivo available, that will take priority over this and I will return.

One more comment..

I am a bit suspicious of Form. He is a bit like Inziladun was in the last game. He is offering great opinions and thoughts but all the while he might be blending in better than any other wolf. I know it is not good reasoning and it will probably get called a noob error but I am just sharing my thoughts.~Hakon

That's really not bad reasoning at all...I would ask you to consider that there is a difference between Form this game and Inziladun last.

It's been a long time since I've seen Form in one of these (I'm afraid all I remember are his epic battles with Nogrod). Right now though he's looking like the voice of reason between two polar opposites. Which, with Mith not here, I'm kind of glad to have in this game. Now he could be using this, as a wolf, to his advantage, and like I said it's not a bad reason to suspect someone.

I will point out the difference though, Inziladun pretty much got involved in irrelevant, small matters, like talking about whether wolves would openly like blood or not. Form was jumping into something major and moderating. I wouldn't expect that from a wolf, I would expect the wolves to want the heavy weights to keep throwing haymakers at eachother, Form hasn't done that though...he's stepped right in and well I'm quite glad, because now I can relax, and admit to going overboard with that pic.

Edit: crossed with Nienna

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

I just think it's... annoying.

Your mom is annoying.

[Hakon]

Now now, Fea and Shasta play nice or the wolves will eat you tonight.

Since I have to go soon I will make my vote now. I am going to run off my hunch that Alona is the snitch and vote her. I know it is only a gut feeling but still.

++Alona

[Brinniel]

Here again. Almost forgot about the Day (whoops)...

My vote for Nienna was based off a hunch I picked up from the tone of her posts. Disagree if you want, but it was my opinion and I don't regret it. Meanwhile, I actually did find Sally suspicious...but I found her so obviously wolfish I figured she probably wasn't one... Funny how one of the few times I make a sincere vote on Day 1, it looks suspicious. Go figure. Though reading my post, I can kind of see why you see it that way. Though the same could be said for many other players.

So Nessa voted me based on a comment of Fea's about me? And now it seems Formy will vote me based on that vote. Okay, whatever.

But if that's how you feel go for it. I feel a bit guilty for my lack of being around and when I am, I'm too lazy to read some 100 posts thoroughly...so I probably deserve getting lynched. Anyway, if you all mutually decide to vote me, I'll probably just commit suicide because I'm goth and all. It'll make for the perfect narration.

Okay, now trying to be useful...

Nerwen's defensiveness makes her look more innocent to me. Hakon seems like just a confused newbie. If he is a wolf, he's taking advantage of his status and I'll be disappointed. Nienna's vote does make her look more innocent. I wonder if there were any wolf-on-wolf yesterDay. Possible, but considering how close it was, it would've been a risky move...especially for Day One.

No one else really rubs me one way or the other just yet. I have to get off the computer now (since I'm sharing one), but will be back later to vote. I'm clueless to who that vote will be for, but I hope it won't take too long to decide since it is time I lack. :/

X-ed since #173: Ooh, so now Nienna might vote me too? Yay! Go me.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

So Nessa voted me based on a comment of Fea's about me? And now it seems Formy will vote me based on that vote. Okay, whatever.

Wait... what? I don't remember this. I don't remember actually saying anything about you... What did I supposedly say?

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Fea

Wait... what? I don't remember this. I don't remember actually saying anything about you... What did I supposedly say?

Here:

Originally Posted by Fea

Brinn -> Nienna - this vote puts Nienna in the lead before Sally and is obviously suspicious. I might be paranoid, but her reasons look a bit fabricated.

I wasn't terribly concerned with your comment since you tend to suspect me early, but Nessa jumped on it rather quickly.

Originally Posted by Formy

Brinn, at least, has carried off the quiet, unassuming, lupine killer role before, if my memory serves.

I have been quiet before as both an innocent and wolf, so my role doesn't have an impact on how much I post. I'm usually quiet because I lack time or I don't have anything worthy to say.

Okay, really have to go now...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Wait... what? I don't remember this. I don't remember actually saying anything about you... What did I supposedly say?

Nessa only mentioned Mac making a comment about you, not Fea, Brinn.

Edit: X'ed with Alonariel and Brinn. That comment was made by Mac, not Fea. At least according to Nessa.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Funny how one of the few times I make a sincere vote on Day 1, it looks suspicious. Go figure.
...

Okay, whatever.
...

It'll make for the perfect narration.

....

Yay! Go me.

Is anyone else somewhat spooked by Brinn's flippant response to her somewhat-threatened lynching?

I realise I tend to base my judgements of people's roles in this game entirely too much on my read of their character--which means the newer the player, the more out to lunch I can be--but this seems ridiculously out of character for Brinn--or an innocent Brinn anyway.

An innocent Brinn, I'm thinking, would be royally ticked off at us for planning to kill her RIGHT before she can get more involved in the game (Brinn is a WW fiend, last I checked). So why is she so casual?

Because Brinn is an old hand at this, and won't make the same mistake Sally did. She won't overreact, go into hysterics, and try to argue her way out, beyond the brief acknowledgement that:

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Though reading my post, I can kind of see why you see it that way

Which, if you ask me, is probably the sneakiest way to deflect the questions: don't focus on them, acknowledge them, and pretend they're minor.

It's all just a little too smooth for me... Rather than allaying my fears, as I expected a defensive Brinn to do when she finally got a chance to come online, this Brinn is cheerfully ready to go to the gallows, if that's what we decide.

Funnily, though, no mention of how it's not going to help the village any if we're down an innocent...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Funnily, though, no mention of how it's not going to help the village any if we're down an innocent...

I would have thought that would have been obvious... funnily enough, I don't see you mentioning the same thing in regard to Nerwen and Fea earlier in the day, this not-mentioning-the-obvious.

[Boromir88]

OMGUS much, Boro? (Wow, I used a Mafia term.)~Shasta

Yes, but mostly in times of frustration when I'm not thinking clearly.

It's been thrown out as a hunch without anything to back it. Unlikely the librarians would seriously consider it as it stood.~Mac

That's unlikely, as soon as it's thrown out there, hunch or not, it's more likely the wolves would pay attention.

You should also consider it's an attempt by me to catch wolves in it's track...whether it's Hakon or another trying to turn the conversation. This is part that frustrates me the most, instead of waiting to see what happens, or try and figure out what someone is up to, anything that seems tricky or secretive is taken as a sign of evil. News flash, this is not always the case, innocents can use their own secrets to try and catch wolves, but when you immediately jump after someone and make them explain themselves, it makes the whole thing moot.

I would have thought I proved trustworthy enough after I came clean about my failed intentions with sally, yesterday and my blatant indication that I still had a few tricks up my sleeve.

You also should not downplay wolves missing kills, failed kills give us more days. For what it's worth I was purposefully trying to get people's reactions to Hakon and see if that would reveal anything, or if anyone was trying to steer conversation. As it is now, however and my intention is spilled, well I'm willing to let the matter lie where it is. If you desire to continue to pursue about the Ranger go ahead.

Form, I'm jumpy about Boro because he did something an innocent Boro would not have done. Would a wolf-Boro do it? Not sure, maybe not, because it would be too risky. Would a cobbler-Boro do it? Yes. (Note that I said Boro=evil, not Boro=wolf.)

This isn't meant to sound bitter, I'm just going to say it...don't presume you know what I would do as a wolf or as an innocent. Some may have a grasp on what I would do, but I remember not too long ago you were saying I was completely wrong about 'wasting' a lynch on a player who would wind up lynched anyway. Of course you were a wolf then, and maybe you were just lying, but you seemed pretty adamant that we wasted a lynch chance, when arguably we didn't.

I'm not infallible, I'm capable of mistakes and blunders and flubs like anyone else, but if I have my own rationale for doing what I do, hopefully that's enough to get trust.

Edit: crossed with everyone since Nessa's vote for Brinn.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm not infallible, I'm capable of mistakes and blunders and flubs like anyone else, but if I have my own rationale for doing what I do, hopefully that's enough to get trust.

Blatantly asking us to trust you when you of all people know that no one is worthy of trust in a WW game? Hmm...

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Blatantly asking us to trust you when you of all people know that no one is worthy of trust in a WW game? Hmm...

My trust in Lommy's innocence in Brinn's game was a big help, when you have nothing else that's what it takes working together and trust. I'm not talking about willy-nilly just whoever you want to trust, it takes gut feeling and of course proof that you can, which is what I am trying to display in my honest responses. No one will take me at my word for it, but I'm being straight with everyone about what I'm doing. Take it or leave it.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

This isn't meant to sound bitter, I'm just going to say it...don't presume you know what I would do as a wolf or as an innocent. Some may have a grasp on what I would do, but I remember not too long ago you were saying I was completely wrong about 'wasting' a lynch on a player who would wind up lynched anyway. Of course you were a wolf then, and maybe you were just lying, but you seemed pretty adamant that we wasted a lynch chance, when arguably we didn't.

If I may play conciliator, Mac need not have meant "what Boro himself would do as a Cobbler" so much as "what a cobbler, who might be Boro might do as a Cobbler"--which is quite another thing entirely. Of course, especially as I'm reading this into the single quote snippet in Boro's last post, if, in fact, Mac is imputing that he can delve into Boro's very psyche and retrieve the secrets of his probable actions--then, by all means, continue to pursue this course of argument. If nothing else, the defences Boro mounts and the attacks Mac offers should afford the rest of us the chance to pick out more of a vibe on both you.