Admin thread for T-I-G LXVII: The Rangers of the North - The Fell Winter - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nogrod · 09-16-2009, 01:53 AM

Nice to see you Roa!

In the beginning I felt about the same concerning the balance; there sure are a lot of actors there who can prove to be a hindrance to the wolves. But then again many of them can bite the other way too and harm the innocents. Anyway it needs to be thought of...

I'm not sure I'd wish to add any more roles that can actively kill someone. There are so many roles that have at least retaliatory killing capabilities that with bad luck we end up with a carnage. I don't think it's probable that happens but it may happen. Thus adding one more killer would make the risk higher.

So if we think we need to favour the wolves a bit it probably should be either taking out some defences from the innocents or by adding defences to the wolves. Or by some other means...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roa

Am I correct in thinking that wolf can become Captain if persuasive enough?

Yes you are. Anyone can be voted to be a Captain or a Night-Guard; and without a seer around the villagers can never be "absolutely sure" who they are voting for.

Quote:

Also, how could a BG or the Captain be killed if they can't be killed so long as they're all there? And are the BG's known to the village? (that is, does the captain tell the village who he's choosing?)

I think I forgot to continue on that later as I promised in the second post...

My idea is that let's say from 21-14 players there would be two BG's chosen by the Captain (and yes I think he should announce them - but if you think it better that their names won't be revealed I'm all ears) - as well as two Night-Guards voted by the players together. During that time those players are safe from Nightly attacks - but they can't perform their Nightly tasks either.

But when 1/3 of the village is down (about 14 players left) they kind of "can't afford" to have so many players out of the game so we'll reduce the number by one eg. there would be one BG and one NG. Those three (the two + the Captain) could be able to discuss during the Night and would be immune to any Nightly activities.

If we get so far that there is only 1/3 of the players left (around 7 players), there wouldn't be no "guards" anymore. Let's say the panic is such a factor that no one trusts someone to go outside or something like that. But the Captaincy should remain to the very end. Heh, think about the guys choosing a wolf for a captain on the last day... or the pressure upon an innocent Captain on that same situation.

Any comments on the balance-issue from you others, and Roa of course? I'll promise to think about it still...

A Little Green · 09-16-2009, 04:37 AM

Lommy asks me to put her down as a questionmark.

Roa_Aoife · 09-16-2009, 10:44 AM

Ok, so if the NG, BG or captain happen to be one of the other specialized roles as well, then they can't perform that role. Can they be lynched? Also, if one of them happens to be a wolf, does that wolf count towards the number of wolves for kills? (That is, if there are 3 wolves and one is a BG, do the wolves get two kills or one?) Also, can a wolf who is a a BG, NG, or captain still talk with the other wolves?

Nogrod · 09-16-2009, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Ok, so if the NG, BG or captain happen to be one of the other specialized roles as well, then they can't perform that role. Can they be lynched?

Right, they can't perform any special things they'd be otherwise cabable during the Night. But sure they can be lynched. Being an NG or BG is a Night-assignment and it doesn't make others unable to lynch them during the Day. And similarly; a gang can lynch their captain. They just have to choose a new one on the next Day (and be without a Captain & his guards during the Night).

Quote:

Also, if one of them happens to be a wolf, does that wolf count towards the number of wolves for kills? (That is, if there are 3 wolves and one is a BG, do the wolves get two kills or one?)

Here I'd like to make an exception to the "logicalness" of the rules and say that the wolves would get the number of kills their total numbers give them right to, unregarding their possible Nightly roles. Otherwise the "villagers" could especially in the later stages of the game block the Nightly kills entirely (even by accident) and then make the logical deductions too easily.

Quote:

Also, can a wolf who is a a BG, NG, or captain still talk with the other wolves?

Okay, this I hadn't thought of... I'd actually like to say that they shouldn't be able to communicate with others if on duty by Night.

Which bring forwards a question of what to do if all the remaining wolves / the last remaining wolf is "on duty" during the Night and there are no "free wolves" to make the kill? As a backbone-reaction I'd say we'd come up with the wolves with a kind of a "pecking order" between them and in such a case the highest ranking wolf would decide the kill. Possibly...

Roa_Aoife · 09-16-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Okay, this I hadn't thought of... I'd actually like to say that they shouldn't be able to communicate with others if on duty by Night.

Which bring forwards a question of what to do if all the remaining wolves / the last remaining wolf is "on duty" during the Night and there are no "free wolves" to make the kill? As a backbone-reaction I'd say we'd come up with the wolves with a kind of a "pecking order" between them and in such a case the highest ranking wolf would decide the kill. Possibly...

That is problematic... What the wolves have going for them is their ability to communicate, and to have that taken away is very detrimental. On the other hand, setting up something in advance can help. Not a pecking order per se, but a means for them to decide. Perhaps a vote? Each wolf sends you their choice, (or maybe two, depending on village size) and the person/people with the most votes die. In case of a tie, role a dice.

That way each wolf's voice is heard and no one feels put out.

EDIT: of course, this is only if all of the wolves are unable to talk at night. If we have two wolves and they're both NG, there wouldn't be a problem for ex. Or no wolf has a voted upon role. But then, how many wolves should be out of contact before this takes effect? If we have 4 wolves, two are NG's and two have no special role, then do they vote? Or then do the two normal wolves decide? what if 2 wolves are out of contact and one wolf is just normal?

Boromir88 · 09-17-2009, 12:06 AM

If it's ok that every Monday, Wednesday, and probably some Fridays I will likely not be around until 2 hours before the DL, then count me in.

Nogrod · 09-17-2009, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If it's ok that every Monday, Wednesday, and probably some Fridays I will likely not be around until 2 hours before the DL, then count me in.

To me it's okay. And if this game actually starts on Sunday with N1, it means the first Days will be Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday... So no problem with the first Days... and later there will be less to catch-up with.

So welcome!

Okay. I have rethought that communication-issue. Actually it would be logical that the wolves who have been appointed as guards (NG's or BG's) could communicate because surely there would be chances for them to slip away for a moment during the Night to "check the sound they heard" or "watch the perimeter" or whatever. So yes to their communication.

But the Captain issue is a bit more delicate. If he is the person guarded sure it would be hard for him to slip somewhere (okay, he tells his guards that "now you guys take a short nap, I'll guard for a while" and then slips away, maybe?). But maybe we'll say that the wolf as Captain could communicate if either of his guards is a wolf as well (that way it would be natural they had a chance to exchange a few words privately during the Night). It would bring forwards a nice additional problem for the wolf that has been voted for Captaincy as to whom to choose as his guards... Pick a mate and you can communicate during the Night but if you get caught your mate might fall under some considerable suspicion... *likes these dilemmas players need to face sometimes*

Legate of Amon Lanc · 09-17-2009, 03:49 AM

Now this sounds really interesting, sign me in! Although I see the rules are kind of "in progress" still, the general overview of it seems rather intriguing - a long time ago, I was planning to make a similar kind of game; especially the Captain and the Night Guards idea is nice! I'd certainly like to try it. And, oh my, Roa is playing? I cannot possibly miss my favourite Cobbler. And Valier, and also Rikae visits us? I cannot miss that for sure.

Okay, off to read the rules more properly and see if I can think of something to contribute.

09-16-2009, 04:37 AM	#2
A Little Green Leaf-clad Lady Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,571	Lommy asks me to put her down as a questionmark. __________________ "But some stories, small, simple ones about setting out on adventures or people doing wonders, tales of miracles and monsters, have outlasted all the people who told them, and some of them have outlasted the lands in which they were created."

09-16-2009, 10:44 AM	#3
Roa_Aoife Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it. Posts: 1,696	Ok, so if the NG, BG or captain happen to be one of the other specialized roles as well, then they can't perform that role. Can they be lynched? Also, if one of them happens to be a wolf, does that wolf count towards the number of wolves for kills? (That is, if there are 3 wolves and one is a BG, do the wolves get two kills or one?) Also, can a wolf who is a a BG, NG, or captain still talk with the other wolves? __________________ We can't all be Roas* when it comes to analysing...* -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen

09-17-2009, 12:06 AM	#6
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	If it's ok that every Monday, Wednesday, and probably some Fridays I will likely not be around until 2 hours before the DL, then count me in. __________________ Fenris Penguin

09-17-2009, 03:49 AM	#8
Legate of Amon Lanc A Voice That Gainsayeth Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: In that far land beyond the Sea Posts: 7,431	Now this sounds really interesting, sign me in! Although I see the rules are kind of "in progress" still, the general overview of it seems rather intriguing - a long time ago, I was planning to make a similar kind of game; especially the Captain and the Night Guards idea is nice! I'd certainly like to try it. And, oh my, Roa is playing? I cannot possibly miss my favourite Cobbler. And Valier, and also Rikae visits us? I cannot miss that for sure. Okay, off to read the rules more properly and see if I can think of something to contribute. __________________ "Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories