Admin thread for T-I-G LXVII: The Rangers of the North - The Fell Winter

[Roa_Aoife]

All these different versions came in as I tried to make as many different hunters as possible but you maybe right. I kind of like the idea of an "hates conspiracies" -hunter who singles out the wolf driving for his lynch (kind of a hero character) but maybe we should make him rather one that has a list, let's say of three, and could bring down the wolf in the list who took part in his execution... but if there is no wolf who voted for him in his list then he takes the number one in the list?

Eh, I still wouldn't like it. (How should they know who among their killers is wolf?) But I will always be on the side of the hunter shooting in the dark. It's just not as much fun when they don't have to deliberate as much over their one choice. But that's me, and I've always been a bit on the extreme side. Certainly there are people who like "intelligent" hunters.

It would just be the master hunter, only with lynches instead of both lynches and nightly kills, so I would be inclined to prefer one or the other, not both, as two is bordering on unfairness.

Also, with your clarification, it could be that the game ends up without having NG's or a captain. If I don't trust anyone, why would I want to protect them? And why would I put control of the lynch, limited as that control may be, in the hands of someone I don't trust? Perhaps there ought to be more incentive? Though I can't think of what that wouldn't completely unbalance the game...

[Boromir88]

Eh, I still wouldn't like it. (How should they know who among their killers is wolf?) But I will always be on the side of the hunter shooting in the dark. It's just not as much fun when they don't have to deliberate as much over their one choice. But that's me, and I've always been a bit on the extreme side. Certainly there are people who like "intelligent" hunters.

As your 'Logical Hunter' in one of your game's Nogrod, I agree with Roa. I thorougly enjoyed making the wolves terrified of me, but getting a wolf in my list of three wasn't as satisfying as a successful single choice.

Although I'm still trying to figure out if the game is really all that unbalanced. With no seer (even though the last who knows how many games we manage to lynch the seer...so maybe it's for the village's own good that there isn't one. ) and the roles unable to reveal themselves (is that correct?) it seems not a bad spot for the wolves.

Perhaps an updated, latest draft, of the roles and rules are in order? If you wouldn't mind Nogrod?

[Nienna]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Perhaps an updated, latest draft, of the roles and rules are in order? If you wouldn't mind Nogrod?

I agree. I've gotten a little lost at where the roles are currently so an updated draft that is still open for change would be fabulous!

[Gwathagor]

Ok, Nogrod, I'm in. I'm a little concerned that playing WW will interfere with my film school schedule, but I'll never know until I try it. Disclaimer: my involvement may be less than prodigious.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Perhaps an updated, latest draft, of the roles and rules are in order? If you wouldn't mind Nogrod?

I'll try to work it out... soonish.

Just now I'd love to hear as many views as possible to see where the possible problems might be. But like Boro said, I'm not too sure this is unfair for the wolves - on top of what he said there's always the chance different goodies kill other innocents as they go...

But that's just why we need to discuss these before we go; to make sure there are no major flaws around.


FYI: We're (myself, Lommy, Greenie, Aganzir...) heading for our summer-cottage for the weekend and will be back on Sunday-afternoon Finnish time, meaning something like mid-day GMT. I'll post something for the rules before we leave tomorrow and try to wrestle the rules into more or less final shape during the weekend.

I hope we have around twenty players when we come back and we can start the game on Sunday evening with N1 (10PM GMT that was) and the rules cleared.

Meanwhile I would appreciate your comments on the possible problems or things you're possibly uncomfortable with. I'll take a print of this thread with me for the weekend so everything you post in the next 14 hours or so I can take with me to think about there. I will surely read thoroughly also those comments that come during the weekend and take them into account while forming the final rules on Sunday.

If it feels there are major issues to be settled - or if we have like 17 players and some might still come in - we could wait to start the game on Monday or Tuesday but I don't think we should wait for this to begin for ages.


EDIT: Welcome Gwath! And don't worry, it seems the beginning of the semester isn't the best time to play werewolf so many will share your problems - and so there will be less to read... or will there?

[Roa_Aoife]

But like Boro said, I'm not too sure this is unfair for the wolves - on top of what he said there's always the chance different goodies kill other innocents as they go...

Someone has to play wolves' advocate.

Okay, so we have to choose a captain, and it's in the captain's best interest to choose body guards. We do not, however, have to choose night guards, but can if we feel someone needs protection.

Do we change the night guards daily, or only when we decide to lynch them? Also, can a person step down from a voted upon role which they no longer wish to be?

So far-
what the wolves' have going for them: two kills a night to start with, the ability to communicate at night, the possibility that some of the hunters may kill an innocent, the chance to be voted into a role

what the village has going for them: multiple hunters which stand the possibility of killing wolves, one which carries no threat to innocents, possibly 6 or 7 people (nearly half the village) who cannot be killed at night(possibly even 8 with the "you can't get me"), 5 possible innocents who can talk at night

That's at least as I understand it.

[Boromir88]

But you are also assuming that our NG, or BG, or captain choices will not be wolves.

Although I say do away with the Brothers-in-Arms roles, or at least have them not be able to protect eachother.

[Roa_Aoife]

I listed the chance for the wolves be voted into a role as something to their advantage. But barring very clever or very bold wolves, that seems unlikely. Also, it limits their communication. Also, I said possibly 6-8 unkillable innocents.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

I listed the chance for the wolves be voted into a role as something to their advantage. But barring very clever or very bold wolves, that seems unlikely. Also, it limits their communication. Also, I said possibly 6-8 unkillable innocents.

Well all the NG and BG does is limit the wolves choices on a particular night. Wouldn't the NGs and BGs have to change each day, because you can't be an NG or BG two nights in a row?

Has it been decided that the wolves communication would be limitted if they have one of the roles? Even if it has there is no possible way for Nogrod to enforce it.

How many of us have strictly stuck to the "communication" rules in every single game? Don't be shy, I'm guilty of not following them. I've talked to fellow "living players" while a game is going on, outside of the game itself. I'm not saying this to be difficult, but my point is, with how some live together, lots know eachother in RL, and with all the other means of communication outside the 'Downs it's unfeasible (and sorry to say a bit...naive) to expect that the communication rules get strictly followed.

Ah well, that's Nogrod's decision and whatever he comes up with, we should do our hardest to honor it. But, I figured I might as well throw it out there, and aknowledge it. When it comes to any type of communication rules, we should no longer be shocked that they get bent, as long as the integrity of the game is not lost (that is to say no one is sharing roles and scheming strategy outside of the game).

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Also, with your clarification, it could be that the game ends up without having NG's or a captain. If I don't trust anyone, why would I want to protect them? And why would I put control of the lynch, limited as that control may be, in the hands of someone I don't trust? Perhaps there ought to be more incentive? Though I can't think of what that wouldn't completely unbalance the game...

The game ends up without any guards anyway as when there is only 1/3 of the players left there will be no such roles anymore (if we get into around 20 initial players it would be on 7 players left). It would be too much to have many people immune to Night-kills when there are only a few players left. I think I said that somewhere...

But yes, it would be up to the players to decide with the Captain. I mean I'm trying to make this a moldable game - what you players choose you choose.
Now sure when there is a Captain you have that person there and your way of getting rid of him and his powers is to choose another one by voting - or lynching him. Your choice.

The wolves may get your captain in the last Nights as well (when there are no guards anymore) unless a ranger lives and protects him. Then it's up to you if you wish to elect a new one or go the last Days without one. Both decisions would sound realistic thinking about the situation...

So I won't be "ordering" you to choose a new Captain later when the one you had has died, but you will have to choose one on Day1. That's all I require. The rest - what you do with him or whether you change him to someone else - is up to you.

So you can only get rid of a/the captain by
- voting for another person to be a captain
- lynching him and not choosing a new one
- not voting for a new one after the wolves kill him during the last Days