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#1 | |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,515
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Besides, who is to say that Glamdring would not have its own efficacy against the WitchKing? It sliced through a Balrog, and was feared by Orcs many thousands of years after it was last used. It, too, had pyrotechnic ability and 'shone with a pale light' when enemies were about, and blazed 'bright as blue flame' when Gandalf trepanned the Great Goblin.
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. Last edited by Morthoron; 01-02-2010 at 09:00 PM. |
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#2 |
Flame Imperishable
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Right here
Posts: 3,928
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So we can take him to be "some conjurer of cheap tricks!"
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Welcome to the Barrow Do-owns Forum / Such a lovely place
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#3 |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,515
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Actually, yes, when it comes to it. Think about any direct combat between the Nazgul and any foe that showed no fear: the WiKi/Nazgul fled from Glorfindel on two occasions, five Nazgul ran from Aragorn on Weathertop when the Ring was in their grasp, several more Nazgul were driven off by Gandalf at Weathertop and again in Gondor. Their primary weapon is fear. When faced by a foe who is fearless, the Nazgul flee, even when outnumbering their opponent. In the book, The WitchKing at the Gate of Minas Tirith tried to instill fear in Gandalf, but it did not work. Not even Shadowfax was fearful.
As I referred to previously, the WiKi's stunt with the flaming sword was the Middle-earth equivalent of a bully flexing his muscles. I've faced opponents like that and beat the snot out of them. Gandalf remains still and calm, watching for the opponent's next move, which is what one is taught to do in aikido, jiu-jitsu and other martial arts.
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
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#4 | |||
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 129
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Dakêsîntrah,
I’m afraid you overestimate the potential of Quote:
Unlike to Witch King Gandalf has a human body which is not protected from suffering, but the crucial thing is that Gandalf can stay alive by his own will. Let me stress this, it is HE who decides whether he should carry on or pass. So his life depends on his own spiritual power and however wounded he was he would die only if all this power had been spent. Due to this, I believe, there was no total separation between Quote:
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And now let’s make some calculation. Sauron took some capable men, made them dreadful and kept them alive for ages. Morgoth took some initially immortal Maiar, much more powerful then mortals, and turned them into dreadful Balrogs. Gandalf’s spirit was powerful enough to endure a long combat with such an enemy, but when Witch King approached him in the movie, he lost completely and in one moment. We know as well, that almost all Witch King’s power comes from Sauron. So can we estimate how much of Sauron’s power should’ve been invested into Witch King to suppress the spirit of the other powerful Maia? I can’t measure it in per cents but I’m sure it is the amount that Sauron would never have dared to hand out to any creature, especially after his disastrous experiment with the Ring. It seems to me that Nazgul can be useful for Sauron only if they don’t have power to clame the Ring, otherwise they'd become very dangerous servants. This is why I think that Witch King couldn’t posess such a power to break Gandalf’s will and the movie scene doesn’t fit into Tolkien’s universe. However I’d like to thank Dakêsîntrah for introducing some interesting points. Last edited by Sarumian; 01-05-2010 at 01:30 PM. |
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#5 | |
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 129
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However neither of them could create someone comparable to a maia without loosing too much of thir own essence, I believe. |
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#6 |
Newly Deceased
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4
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I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here and argue a position I don't agree with with.That position is PJ is right to weaken Gandalf because by doing so he increases the heroism of the humans (Aragorn and Eowyn). The fact that Gandalf loses to the Witch-King shows how heroic Eowyn was in standing up to him. The fact Gandalf is hesitant gives Aragorn a chance to assume the role of leader. Now I could almost live with this position if it wasn't for the fact that Aragorn then turns around and tries to confront Sauron with the palantir and ends up running from the orb like a coward.
I think PJ tries to humanize everyone too much and they come off looking weak a great deal. The human element in LotR has, for me, always been the hobbits. Heck, by the end of RotK in the book Aragorn is only ever called Elassar (sp?) and seems much more removed. But it is the hobbits that symbolize the reader in the book, they are normally the ones that you can most relate to in the books.
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#7 | |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
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aldredheron, Welcome to the Downs!
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Then what happens? She runs, limps away from the Gimpy Gothmog, a mere Orc, and is saved only by the action of another (Aragorn's). ![]() So is she the bomb or what? My issue is that I wish PJ would make up his mind. ![]() ![]()
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There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.
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#8 | |
Wight
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 204
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By using the device that the Witch King leaves when he hears of the arrival of the Rohirrim (was this an excuse?) AND the disappearance of Gandalf so as to save Faramir, Tolkien is able to turn the final showdown with the Witch King over to the mortals...
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`These are indeed strange days,' he muttered. `Dreams and legends spring to life out of the grass.' |
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#9 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Back on the Helcaraxe
Posts: 733
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Call me Ibrin (or Ibri) :) Originality is the one thing that unoriginal minds cannot feel the use of. — John Stewart Mill |
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