The Names of Sauron

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Ibrin

Whether or not any of his servants or slaves actually DID know his true name would not prevent Sauron from issuing orders against it being spoken or written.

Edict From The Top #456176
"We, the Lord of the Rings, Lord of Barad-dûr, Núrnen and Gorgoroth, Liege-lord of Dol Guldur, Supreme God-King of Khand, Rhûn, Near and Far Harad and by right of all Middle-earth, known to Our subordinates as The (Great) Eye, He, The Top, etc., hereby expressly forbid all Our loyal subjects, under severest penalty, to use in speech or writing Our True Name, which we will not reveal here as it's none of their business.
Given at Our chancellery in Barad-dûr, through Our trusted secretary, the Mouth of ******, T.A. 2951."

Orcs, Nazgûl, Trolls, Variags, Easterlings, Haradrim etc.: "???"

(Sorry, couldn't resist...)

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Edict From The Top #456176
"We, the Lord of the Rings, Lord of Barad-dûr, Núrnen and Gorgoroth, Liege-lord of Dol Guldur, Supreme God-King of Khand, Rhûn, Near and Far Harad and by right of all Middle-earth, known to Our subordinates as The (Great) Eye, He, The Top, etc., hereby expressly forbid all Our loyal subjects, under severest penalty, to use in speech or writing Our True Name, which we will not reveal here as it's none of their business.
Given at Our chancellery in Barad-dûr, through Our trusted secretary, the Mouth of ******, T.A. 2951."

Orcs, Nazgûl, Trolls, Variags, Easterlings, Haradrim etc.: "???"

LOL! It's funny -- and to a sick mind, entirely too possible, sad to say. You should hear the stories that my "stepmother" used to tell about her family -- Gospel Truth, according to her. We found that not only wasn't a word of it true, but the enormity of what she and earlier generations of her family had lied about was truly stunning. As Sauron was certainly a Master Manipulator and Base Deceiver far beyond anything she could have imagined, the degree of prevarication of which he was capable must have been so profound, it would have completely befuddled any poor mortal mind. And it surely would have looked insane to boot.

[Aran e-Godhellim]

One possibility, I note, has not been mentioned. What if Pippin misinterpreted what the Mouth [of Sauron] actually said grammatically. We know that Sindarin has a genitive by apposition. What if Westron does as well? In that case, piŋ Soron (just a suggestion, by no means a serious reconstruction) could be translated "Mouth [of] Sauron". However, adjectival formations are also often formed via apposition; piŋ soron could also mean The Abhorred Mouth. This could have been an "honorary title" -- perhaps but not necessarily a linguistic pun, since Sauron didn't use that name anyway -- which Pippin might easily have misunderstood. (Or Tolkien, if we dare suggest that!)

Also, it is possible that the use of Sauron is an anachronism or alteration; a later translator (or Frodo himself) replaced the real name that the Mouth [of Sauron] used with a name that would be more readily understood. In this case, the Mouth [of Sauron] called himself no such thing, and the problem is solved. This latter explanation seems to me to be the most Tolkienesque.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

There have been similar ideas as to misinterpretation, however the first one (with taking into account the linguistic aspect) is truly original! It depends on the circumstances, of course, but anything is possible. Nevertheless, I must say that of course it was not only Pippin, Frodo or whoever who would be misinterpretating the Mouth's name here. Given the way in which the Red Book has been compiled, many of the facts have been probably carefully checked by the scholarly minds of Bilbo and Frodo and a mistake like that would have likely been uncovered. If somebody misinterpretated the name of some totally random hill in the wilderness, nobody will mind, but the Mouth of Sauron seems to be a known and feared figure, at least among the "high-ranking" people, all of Sauron's direct enemies probably knew of his existence (probably just as well as they knew about the existence of the Nazgul). In that sense, his name had about as large chance to be misinterpretated as, let's say, the name of Cirith Gorgor or that of Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul.

If it were to be said that the name "Mouth of Sauron" is a result of misinterpretation, then the variant I could accept - in this paradigm - would be that it was Tolkien who misinterpretated it, resp. as it were, that the Westron got misinterpretated while being translated into English.

[Dimturiel]

Perhaps the Mouth of Sauron used his master's name at the Black Gate to play with his enemies, to sort of daunt them. I mean, if all went his way - and, at that point, I don't think he had too many reasons to believe it would not - he would have taken Saruman's place at Isengard and he had to secure his position to his enemies, to make sure they would really never bother him again. He wanted to prove to Gandalf and the rest that he was not just a slave of Sauron's - although Gandalf does call him one at the end of their discussion, thus showing that the trick did not actually work. It was like he was saying to them: I am that deep in Sauron's favour, that close to him that I can actually afford to use this name, a thing he does not permit the rest of his servants to do. Therefore, I am to be feared almost just as much as Sauron, and you'd better fear me, for your own good. I mean, what better way to make sure no one would dare to openly challange his position in Orthanc than by proving that he was the second most powerful being in Middle-earth apart from Sauron and that Sauron sort of acknowledged that by allowing his ambassador liberties he would not normally have allowed to his other - less trustworthy and less important, it is implied - servants?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Dimturiel

He wanted to prove to Gandalf and the rest that he was not just a slave of Sauron's - although Gandalf does call him one at the end of their discussion, thus showing that the trick did not actually work. It was like he was saying to them: [I]I am that deep in Sauron's favour, that close to him that I can actually afford to use this name, a thing he does not permit the rest of his servants to do.

Not a bad idea, but the trouble is, Mouth of Sauron apparently called himself Mouth of Sauron always. That means, not only in this particular case. And that does not still quite answer the question why would Sauron allow him to call himself like that.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Not a bad idea, but the trouble is, Mouth of Sauron apparently called himself Mouth of Sauron always. That means, not only in this particular case. And that does not still quite answer the question why would Sauron allow him to call himself like that.

I would add, why Sauron allow him to use a name that was given to him by his enemies, and which he did not like? Permitting him to use the name "Sauron" would be catering to his enemies, and saying "this guy is my mouthpiece only for scum like you," I should think. Of course, it would not obviate the premise that Sauron let the Mouth believe it was a sign of his favor. Like any good dysfunctional control freak "parent," Sauron no doubt had a number of servants that he told were "his favorite" or some such, just to keep them at odds with one another so that they couldn't get together, decide they were being treated badly, and start a rebellion. If the Mouth were really in Sauron's favor, he probably would have called himself The Mouth of Annatar (although from a story point of view, that would be introducing a name for Sauron that had not been mentioned in the book, and would need explanation).

An interesting notion, nonetheless.