Enchanted Stream

[ecthelion]

Thranduil comes to mind, but is he that powerful? Maybe Elrond came over to help him out.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by ecthelion

since the magic seems very strong, I wonder who enchanted it. Thranduil comes to mind, but is he that powerful?

Welcome, ecthelion. I think that's the main question here.

The more I think about this, the less likely I think it is that the stream's magic was the work of the Mirkwood Elves.
Think about the Lórien Elves: they crossed rivers with single ropes tied at either end over the water. Legolas told Haldir he had no trouble doing that. Wouldn't that have been a hallmark of the wood-elves in Mirkwood too? If they had enchanted that stream as a barrier to the entrance of the realm from the forest path (that according to Beorn was hardly used by anyone), wouldn't they have set up a way for them to cross it in the same way they did it in Lórien? As it was, all it took was a party with a small hook to grab the boat on the eastern bank and drag it to them. Every member of Thorin's group would have made it across, if not for a deer jumping out of the trees at the wrong time. Would the Elves, having taken the trouble to put a sleep-spell on that stream, really have been so careless as to have left a boat reachable by intruders that they could use to cross?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

The more I think about this, the less likely I think it is that the stream's magic was the work of the Mirkwood Elves.
Think about the Lórien Elves: they crossed rivers with single ropes tied at either end over the water. Legolas told Haldir he had no trouble doing that. Wouldn't that have been a hallmark of the wood-elves in Mirkwood too? If they had enchanted that stream as a barrier to the entrance of the realm from the forest path (that according to Beorn was hardly used by anyone), wouldn't they have set up a way for them to cross it in the same way they did it in Lórien? As it was, all it took was a party with a small hook to grab the boat on the eastern bank and drag it to them. Every member of Thorin's group would have made it across, if not for a deer jumping out of the trees at the wrong time. Would the Elves, having taken the trouble to put a sleep-spell on that stream, really have been so careless as to have left a boat reachable by intruders that they could use to cross?

That's actually interesting and it makes sense. On top of that, if we take into account what kind of monsters one encounters in Mirkwood, the river is really not the best of a defense: spiders can climb trees and they can cross the river that way. Also, the river protects the Elves mostly from the west, not really from south, which is the direction of the strongest evil powers. Again, if it was aimed against intruders from outside Mirkwood, coming from the west, why to put that boat there. One could speculate that it might be used as defense against the Orcs, in case they would - for whatever peculiar reason - decide to travel weeks down from the mountains through the forest, and counting on that they will be stupid enough not to use the boat. But that's rather farfetched... well, it is true that it would stop an army from invading (I mean, carrying 1000 Orcs across the river would take a while with one small boat, and a few clumsy ones could fall into the water). But that's about the only thing the river would be good for. Even the most dangerous local "predator", the Nazgul, against whom the river would be very good defense by itself (although not sure if you can put Nazgul to sleep, probably not) cannot be driven back by it anymore when there is a boat there, in fact, putting a boat there is the only way (except for straightaway building a bridge) how to ensure a Nazgul can get past. So it really does not make sense to do such a thing unless you have stronger reasons to have the boat there.

As for ecthelion's question (and indeed, welcome to the Downs!), however, I think if Thranduil wanted, he could make something like that. I don't think it's such a big deal for an Elf of his kind, and he was powerful after all, at least relatively.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

It is possible to hypothesize the stream was enchanted by
a few of the nazgul, on orders and directions from Sauron,
as part of a plan to isolate the elves (and collaterally the men
of Laketown) as part of a plan to prevent northwestern M-E collaboration
in defense. The stream to the west, giant spiders et. al. to the south,
Smaug to the east, and orcs in the mountains north of Mirkwood
would isolate the strongest single force in Rhovannion (the wood
elves of Thranduil). The stream's purpose could be seen not as an
absolute barrier but rather as akind of speed bump, together with
harassing evil creatures lurking around it. (All them eyes at night! )

[Gwathagor]

Personally, I doubt that anybody enchanted the stream at all. You might say that the presence of magical beings in the forest rubbed off on the stream, but I doubt it was anything that direct in Tolkien's mind. The Hobbit is much more of an old faerie story than LotR (which is more complex and mythological), and in faerie stories things frequently do not have any clear reason for the way they are.

Tolkien's thought process probably went something like this: Elves and other magical creatures live in the forest. Therefore, it is a magical forest. Therefore, the stream in the forest is magical.

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Personally, I doubt that anybody enchanted the stream at all. You might say that the presence of magical beings in the forest rubbed off on the stream, but I doubt it was anything that direct in Tolkien's mind. The Hobbit is much more of an old faerie story than LotR (which is more complex and mythological), and in faerie stories things frequently do not have any clear reason for the way they are.

Tolkien's thought process probably went something like this: Elves and other magical creatures live in the forest. Therefore, it is a magical forest. Therefore, the stream in the forest is magical.

I'm slowly coming around to a course parallel with Gwathagor's.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Basically, I would agree with Gwath as well. At least I am strongly opposing any idea that there was any evil being behind the forest river's enchantment. The magic just seems more "elvish" (not in the sense that it would necessarily have to be made by Elves, but as the type of good or light-and-shade magic of Middle-Earth). It has obviously all the qualities Tolkien ascribes to Faërie, and to the Elves (see On Fairy-Stories), this kind of enchantment which is dangerous to mortals and stuff like that, also similar to what happened to Thingol when he met Melian and stuff like that. So, in other words, I believe that if the Stream was enchanted by anybody in particular, it had to be the Elves, or some local not-directly-evil power, like some local Bombadil or even better some local River's Daughter (how fitting indeed! After all, we don't know about the hidden corners of Middle-Earth, do we, and somebody like that would fit here really well!!! And you may try to disagree!!!).

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

It is possible to hypothesize the stream was enchanted by
a few of the nazgul, on orders and directions from Sauron,
as part of a plan to isolate the elves (and collaterally the men
of Laketown) as part of a plan to prevent northwestern M-E collaboration
in defense. The stream to the west, giant spiders et. al. to the south,
Smaug to the east, and orcs in the mountains north of Mirkwood
would isolate the strongest single force in Rhovannion (the wood
elves of Thranduil). The stream's purpose could be seen not as an
absolute barrier but rather as akind of speed bump, together with
harassing evil creatures lurking around it. (All them eyes at night! )

The stream emanating from the Mountains of Mirkwood, the Necromancer might have been behind it, but what of the pleasant dreams of Bombur, as noted by the earlier posters? Would 'magic' which had its source in Sauron have been able to foster any good feeling in its victims? Maybe earlier on Sauron's incarnations, but by the Third Age I would doubt it.
Maybe the stream had something to do with the spiders? Being the (probable) offspring of Shelob, herself the child of Ungoliant, a likely Maia, they might have had the power to enact something like that. It would make for an easy meal, and maybe the boat was placed by the Necromancer's servants to enable them to cross when necessary. Maybe Orcs from Mt. Gundabad? That still wouldn't explain Bombur's nice dreams though.

x/d with Gwath, who may well be right. But then again, it is fun to conjecture about things like this.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Very interesting idea about the spiders. But the pleasant
dreams could be a deliberate ploy by the spiders to lure
the victim into nonresistance and a disinclination to wake up.