WW LXXIX: Fall From Olympus

[Nogrod]

Nerwen's Hades declaration really stands out there and makes her my number one wolf-suspect. On top of that there were only Boro's Zeus-comments (which make no sense for a wolf or a lover to make) and Eonwë's Dionysos-reference (which was way later than the initial banter). And this is a game where several people would need to hint at their mates or possible allies! So it would be incredible if no-one tried to make a contact!

Of others I'm more confused about.

Lottie I remember suspecting for wrong reasons before but there is something in her posts that I can't quite put my finger on which makes me suspect her (fex. how she commented on the Eonwë-issue, but there was more as well, earlier).

Moreover, Rikae is spot on to the game and I really enjoyed her little argument with tp, but there's something in her posting as well that makes me a bit nervous (like always), namely the way she brought the Boro-issue back or how she turned around on it - or how she reacted to the Eonwë discussion. It's just a bad hunch maybe.

Also what Mac said about Greenie (and she said about him) - heh, at least I don't think they are Zeus and Hera... even if the arguing might be as like them in the stories... (not probably voting either of them, though)

Then there are the cohorts of those who have said little of any real value (eg. leading up to new ways of looking things or discussing things - or even contributing their own in some discussions). It's always so hard with them. Nothing to say when there is nothing said. But if you just want to "check" someone you can have no read on, you should do it earlier than later as the going gets tougher by Day and many feel - justifiably - that we can not afford blind checkings later on.

I'll take a fast tour around to check those less contributing ones before making any vote. Meanwhile it would be nice to hear from you others. It's such quiet.

Heh, talk of the devil... x'd with four last posts...

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I just skimmed some points against me. I did not claim that Boro is Zeus. My theory is that Boro dropped the name Zeus a few times to indicate that he is a lover, too, one of the three that need to find theirs. Having one or two lovers waste their first pick is bad, but worth having one be right with their first pick.

I still don't get this, Mac. Why would Borolover think talking about Zeus would indicate to his beloved he could be their counterpart?

x/d with KeeperMira

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I still don't get this, Mac. Why would Borolover think talking about Zeus would indicate to his beloved he could be their counterpart?

x/d with KeeperMira

I might be missing something here, but don't Zeus and Hera know who each other are? If that's the case then there's no reason for Borolover to be hinting to his counterpart.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Keeper of Dol Guldur

I might be missing something here, but don't Zeus and Hera know who each other are? If that's the case then there's no reason for Borolover to be hinting to his counterpart.

Exactly.

EDIT- saw the response above

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

(since when is Zeus almighty anyway )

Zeus is almighty, or at least he can be seen as such. King of the gods and all that. Boro was probably IC bantering. As a hint, it really wasn't very functional. As banter, it makes sense.

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Keeper of Dol Guldur

I might be missing something here, but don't Zeus and Hera know who each other are? If that's the case then there's no reason for Borolover to be hinting to his counterpart.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Exactly.

EDIT- saw the response above

I was going to post the same thing. I'm so glad I made the list cause it made all this Zeus talk even more interesting. Is it just something to stir up the pot and add confusion?

Edit: xed with Lottie

[Macalaure]

*gives up*

[Inziladun]

I actually need to be going to bed soonish. 5 AM comes early.

I'm not making a list, there are too many bloody people.

Who stands out at the moment:

Boro- Confusing. Something doesn't sit right about him, but I'm hesitant to vote for him at this point.

Mac- As usual, I want to lynch him just for being Mac. Not toDay, though.

Eönwë- The bit about Dionysus has me pretty well convinced he's the Cursed, but as I see it, he's no threat until he's turned, and we should know when that happens, or at least know it's possibly happened.

BG- Popping in and out, no substance whatsoever. Very tempting to vote her.

x/d with Nog and Nerwen

[Inziladun]

It really does seem a reach on Mac's reasoning on why Boro said that about Zeus. I'm hesitant to vote him on Day 1 though. I always want to, and I'm hardly ever right about him, it seems.

x/d with Mac

[Blind Guardian]

Ay I am back. And I have caught up reading. I hate day 1s.

Nerwen- talked about Hades. (right?) very suspiciuos.

Eönwë- Dionyses. That was weird. I don't really like it.


Phantom- kinda annoying. But not going to vote.

These are the only people that I've noticed.

Xed with 172

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Hephaistos, not Ares. In my opinion, though it's frustrating to be alone with it, he used the reference to Zeus simply to say "I am a lover". Since we only have three, that's not a bad hint.

Sorry, Hephaistos (got confused because in fact Ares was Aphrodite's lover).

Anyway, I do understand what you mean, now– but I'd say it is a "bad hint".

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Now Eonwe. Well that's something else. For him to be so blatant if he's the Cursed he must kow that if he gets turned we're just going to lynch him. So maybe this is his way of staying allied to the village? Giving himself up so he doesn't have to be evil?

You mean, trying to get lynched on purpose? But the likelihood of any one person getting the chop on Day One is small, compared to the risk of being turned for dropping a hint like that. (Not that I'm sure it was a hint– it seems a very foolhardy one for the Cursed to use.)

Originally Posted by Blind Guardian

Ay I am back. And I have caught up reading. I hate day 1s.

Nerwen- talked about Hades. (right?) very suspiciuos.

Eönwë- Dionyses. That was weird. I don't really like it.


Phantom- kinda annoying. But not going to vote.

These are the only people that I've noticed.

*sigh* BeiGe, not to put too fine a point on it, but you're obviously once again skimming and copying what other people have said.

EDIT:X'd since Blind Guardian.

[autume98]

Looks like so far I don't have much as far as suspicions. The people that have hit my radar so far toDay are:

Boro - There was all the Zeus talk around him. However he generally confuses me so it probably means nothing.

Lottie - That might just because I'm on her radar so it probably is just a knee-jerk reaction to that. However she's also is on Nog's radar and I tend to trust Nog.

Mac - I'm not sure about him. I really can't put my finger on it, but it also might be that once again I'm on his radar so it probably means nothing.

Eonwe - I'd like to know more about this statement:

Originally Posted by Eönwë

I think Dionysus may have poisoned me (I feel quite sick), so I'm probably only going to be back near the end of the Day.

Everyone else seems to be ok or hasn't said a lot so really don't have much to go on.

On another note I talked to Sally and she said she's having internet that seems to be working sporadically.

Edit: xed up to post 172

[Nogrod]

Shasta - not seen yet, so not voting as he might appear.

Those who have been around but contributed little or nothing...
Keeper aka Mira
BeiGei
Nienna
Sally
Tum

Those who have contributed more or less and whom I'd like to see contribute more (as they make sense or feel innocentish)
Wilwa
phantom
Boro
Zil
Folwren
Lalaith

Those who have contributed and I wouldn't like to vote toDay but who bear watching for one reason or another.
Lottie
Greenie
Kath

How fitting, the one's I'm torn about but suspect enough to give them their own category...
Rikae
Mac
(that is soo bad! Really!)

My suspects.
Eonwe - the cursed
Nerwen - suspicious of wolvery

So at this point it would make sense to vote for Nerwen (or Eonwë, actually, but if you all agree there is another way of interpreting the rules then it's different; to me they look pretty clear but that may be a language issue - and anyway in this situation we might afford to wait, although after the first non-death Night it will be different), or then vote for one of the "submarines"... If the subs stay as subs when Days go on we really should try to get rid of them but if they stand up for their challenge then we should just try for the best odds. And really at this point there's still time for the subs to make it better toDay so I'm a bit hesitating voting any of them right now without knowing who will actually provide us with some thoughts and not stay the enigmas...

Any thoughts?


Heh, x'd with two I named "subs" - that's the way it goes... and a few others...

[Nogrod]

Just looking at the posts I crossed with...

Rikae looks good, like Lottie and Wilwa a little less, but not alarmingly less good (it may be I just disagree with her points). The Blind Guardian and Tum on the other hand just make the sound of the schreech of a chalk on the chalk-board! So is it just them not getting the hang of it or something else?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nerwen about Zeus

Is he allied to the village at all? Can he win without Hera?

I had that spotted as well Rikae, so it's possible it was not for nothing... At the time when people were thinking whether the innocent-lovers should take the side of the village Nerwen went on with this. I had just forgotten this.

So I would say you two are not on the same side, at least you do not know it even if you were - well how to define sides in the first place in this kind of game anyway? What I was trying to say? That you two are not both (edit: added "both") wolves... that's more or less what I was trying to say.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Are you sure? Where did you get this?

From the rules, as I quoted them:

Originally Posted by the rules

Dionysus is the Cursed. If the Wolves choose to Night kill him, he will join their ranks. Only the player and I will know that they are Dionysus. I will not reveal the Cursed until the end of the game.

Or can you interpret this any other way?

Heh, interesting to see how different interpretations two people can make on the same subject (seeing what you found on Boro with tp and Lalaith - the comments of which I thought were more or less out of the discussion)...

Originally Posted by Inzil

I still don't get this, Mac. Why would Borolover think talking about Zeus would indicate to his beloved he could be their counterpart?

Exactly, I mean if he was just another lover of another wolf (or the other way around?). I hate suspecting you (really) and even if you say Rikae explained why you did that I must say I didn't get it, exactly for this reason. That just makes no sense - heh, as you said in your initial post it didn't... But why all the explanations then, afterwards?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

From the rules, as I quoted them: Or can you interpret this any other way?

Well, I can: "I will not reveal (the identity of) the Cursed". Which is not the same as "I will not reveal if the Cursed has been turned".

But perhaps Thanatos will be kind enough to clarify this point?

EDIT:X'd with Mac and Zil.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Noggins

Or can you interpret this any other way?

Definitely. I would interpret that as meaning that the dead (or dreamed) cursed will be listed as either an ordo or a wolf, depending on whether xe's been turned. Doesn't say whether the event of the cursed being turned (which wouldn't actually reveal the cursed's identity) would show up in a narration. Pretty often things like hunter kills and ranger saves show up in the narration, so it's entirely possible a cursed being turned would as well. Last I checked, the question had been posted on the admin thread, though, so we'll see.

EDIT: X'd with Nerwen.

[Rikae]

I can see where Mac is coming form. After all, Zeus is a wolf's lover, so "allied to Zeus" could = wolf's lover. However, I still don't think that's what Boro meant - the way he phrased it just doesn't fit. He connected it to Phantom, which Mac will probably say was intended to disguise it, but which would also have the effect of garbling his hint.

[wilwarin538]

So, the False Seer discussion totally confuses me, so I'm not going to touch that.

The Lover thing seems to have taken up alot of the Day, which I guess makes sense since it's such an important part of the game. It just seems to have taken on a bit *too* much of the day, but oh well.

Boro makes more sense now, since I think he was using 'alied with Zeus' to be in reference of the 'good side'. So I'm not going to push it more. Same for Nerwen, with the Hades thing, as far as I can tell it was banter.

Now Eonwe. Well that's something else. For him to be so blatant if he's the Cursed he must kow that if he gets turned we're just going to lynch him. So maybe this is his way of staying allied to the village? Giving himself up so he doesn't have to be evil? Or he just partied to much, and it was also banter.

That one just seems different to me than the other two. But if he's the Cursed we shouldn't be killing him. Well, there is another option for what he could be doing (to help the village). But if I'm right than me saying it could kind of ruin it, so I'll stay quite for now.

As for who to vote for. No idea right now. Maybe Mac, since the Boro-Zeus thing makes no sense as a Lover hint. But that's kind of slim. Maybe BG, because I don't like it when people complain about it being slow and then don't say anything when there's talking. I'm gonna read some more, but I'll be around for the next hour or so, so I'll wait as long as possible.

x'posted with a few

[wilwarin538]

Oh. about when the cursed dies.

So what doesn't make sense to me. I would assume that when someone dies Glirdy will say something like "Downer X - Thanatos" in the deadlist. Since some of the roles are harder to categorise without saying the name of the god, and since even just saying Wolf would leave question what with the Lover situation. So when the cursed dies, if he suddenly says "wolf" or "ordo", when he's just been saying god names before, won't that seem a bit odd? Therefore wouldn't he have to reveal them as the cursed? He just wouldn't need to say wheter it is wolf-Dyonisis or ordo-Dyonisis, therefore keeping the mystery. We'd know the cursed is dead, just not whether they had been turned yet.

Atleast that's how I would do it. I just don't see how else he can keep the Cursed's identity hidden.

x'ed with BG and Tum

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Oh. about when the cursed dies.

So what doesn't make sense to me. I would assume that when someone dies Glirdy will say something like "Downer X - Thanatos" in the deadlist. Since some of the roles are harder to categorise without saying the name of the god, and since even just saying Wolf would leave question what with the Lover situation. So when the cursed dies, if he suddenly says "wolf" or "ordo", when he's just been saying god names before, won't that seem a bit odd? Therefore wouldn't he have to reveal them as the cursed? He just wouldn't need to say wheter it is wolf-Dyonisis or ordo-Dyonisis, therefore keeping the mystery. We'd know the cursed is dead, just not whether they had been turned yet.

Atleast that's how I would do it. I just don't see how else he can keep the Cursed's identity hidden.

x'ed with BG and Tum

This is a good point - it makes me wonder if he didn't think it through? It still doesn't make sense that "won't reveal the cursed" should mean "will reveal who the cursed is, but not when/whether xe is turned."

[Rikae]

Tum, are you saying that Mac's suspicion of Boro being a lover is a hint that Mac is a lover?

Although there's something to the idea that people tend to talk about their own roles more than might be wise, I think that's a little bit of a reach, especially considering that you dismiss the idea that Boro's hinting - which, though I don't really buy it, is more plausible than that Mac is.

[wilwarin538]

Ok, so I thought I could last another hour, but unlike my bestie I don't have the ability to stay up til 2am. Especially when I've just worked and have to be up early in the morning. I'm just too tired.

I just don't really know who to vote for yet. But I need to, really soon, and I want a stronger reason than 'she's too quiet'. But fatigue might get the best of me here.

I'll wait a bit more. Maybe someone will do something evil.

x'ed with Rikae and the Cupcake (who has been really quiet too)

[Rikae]

Hm, so apparently the narration will indicate when the cursed is turned - the ModGod has spoken. In that case, there really is no reason to go lynching Steve now.
I don't really want to vote for BG, since as far as I'm concerned she's done just as little to show she's a wolf as to show she isn't - but I still might vote for her for plain old lack of participation and sleeping under the reindeer. My other suspects are Nerwen, but I still think it's quite likely what she said was IC banter and I wouldn't like to lynch her for that; Phantom, but he hasn't explained himself and it would be a throwaway vote anyway, and Wilwa, simply because of the way she seemed to be trying to stir up suspicions around Boro's remarks while keeping her hands clean, so to speak, but again, that would be a throwaway.

[autume98]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Tum, are you saying that Mac's suspicion of Boro being a lover is a hint that Mac is a lover?

Although there's something to the idea that people tend to talk about their own roles more than might be wise, I think that's a little bit of a reach, especially considering that you dismiss the idea that Boro's hinting - which, though I don't really buy it, is more plausible than that Mac is.

I was throwing that out as a possibility. I thought it might be a little too obvious on Mac's part which is why I asked for other's opinions.

I didn't realize I had dismissed the idea the that Boro was hinting. I didn't really comment on it if that's what you mean. Since it's been brought up though I could see that yes it could be a hint coming from Boro. Yet I'm not convinced at all. I am pretty much on the fence with this one.

I have also been going through the posts to see if there are any hints that the lovers have thrown out. So far I haven't come across anything that stands out.

Edit: x-ed with wilwa, Nog, and Rikae

[Keeper of Dol Guldur]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

As for who to vote for. No idea right now. Maybe Mac, since the Boro-Zeus thing makes no sense as a Lover hint. But that's kind of slim.

I'd have to disagree with you on that one, dear. What Mac said about Boro leaving a Lover hint does make sense (even though it took me fooorever to get). I'm still pretty convinced it was innocent banter, but it does make sense.

I'm also not stoked on this suspicion of Steve, for the same reasons as I wasn't stoked on suspecting Boro and Nerwen for what could very well be innocent Day 1 banter.

People I won't be voting for toDay:
Boro
Nerwen
Steve
(All for reasons previously stated.)
Shasta - I don't vote for people who don't appear. At least not Day 1.

Who I probably will be voting for toDay unless something better comes up within the next hour or so:
Blind Guardian - don't be posting that you want people to provide you with substance and then don't do anything to spark discussion.

EDIT: xed since the wilwa post I quoted. And bollox, that now looks suspiciously like bandwagoning.

[Nogrod]

Just going to bed while left the PC open... and I realised I wanted to see the tally. So why not send it to you as well? I think it bears watching...

Foley -> Eonwë
Greenie -> Macalaure
Kath -> Blind Guardian
Lalaith -> Boro
Inzil -> Blind Guardian 2
Nienna -> Eonwë 2
Sally -> Blind Guardian 3
Nogrod -> Nerwen
Wilwa -> Blind Guardian 4

Those with votes have their highest vote bolded...

I really think Wilwa's last one looks suspicious - and Sally's looks like a throwaway...

[Nogrod]

And a fast answer to Nerwen...

I did read your post about Zeus differently, like trying to persuade whoever played Zeus to think he would not win without Hera (and thus without the wolves).

And I would not have called you defensive (or over-defensive) if you'd tried to talk yourself out from that Hades stuff - which if you're innocent would be something you'd probably really have tried to speak yourself out from (and really the lovers need so badly to connect to each other in this game and you're one of the only ones who made any that kind of reference!).

But your reaction was an attack on one person. So trying to persuade people to lynch one person other than you instead of an innocent's reaction of trying to prove your innocense or giving us the whole list of your suspicions lynching one of which would be better. The wolves like to single out one they'd rather get rid off - the one they calculate is the possible one. It would require so much work to come up with many suspicions there would be some grounds for suspecting for someone who knows who the innocents are?

So really Nerwen, I do suspect you.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And I would not have called you defensive (or over-defensive) if you'd tried to talk yourself out from that Hades stuff - which if you're innocent would be something you'd probably really have tried to speak yourself out from

Once again: there's nothing for me to say. Either you believe me that it was just banter, or you don't. Repeating it over and over won't convince you, will it?

Originally Posted by Nogrod

But your reaction was an attack on one person. So trying to persuade people to lynch one person other than you instead of an innocent's reaction of trying to prove your innocense or giving us the whole list of your suspicions lynching one of which would be better.

Now you're just attributing motives to me. That wasn't a "reaction". I pointed out some things Mac did because I thought they were suspicious. Besides, when have you ever seen me make a suspicion-list?

EDIT:X'd since my last post.

[Nogrod]

Foley -> Eonwë
Greenie -> Macalaure
Kath -> Blind Guardian
Lalaith -> Boro
Inzil -> Blind Guardian 2
Nienna -> Eonwë 2
Sally -> Blind Guardian 3
Nogrod -> Nerwen
Wilwa -> Blind Guardian 4
Mira of Dol Guldur -> Blind Guardian 5
Rikae -> the phantom

Mira, you're really making yourself to flash out here as well!

[the phantom]

I am back and working on catching up with all the action...

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Keeper of Dol Guldur

I'd have to disagree with you on that one, dear. What Mac said about Boro leaving a Lover hint does make sense (even though it took me fooorever to get). I'm still pretty convinced it was innocent banter, but it does make sense.

I'm also not stoked on this suspicion of Steve, for the same reasons as I wasn't stoked on suspecting Boro and Nerwen for what could very well be innocent Day 1 banter.

People I won't be voting for toDay:
Boro

Rest assured you still know me quite well, thanks dear. Now, if I know you well, hopefully you read this ere the night ends, and hopefully it doesn't confuse you. Don't hestitate to pick me, sorry for any trouble, I gotta know.