WW LXXXII: Return to Tol-in-Gaurhoth

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

How about everyone just uncloaked and we could be done with it by judging on the hairyness of everyone...

Indeed, I marvel at your audacity in suggesting such a thing, Master Nogrod. Holy Elbereth, there are ladies among us, and one of them a young maiden! Have you no decency?

Originally Posted by Legate

If there is anything that troubles me now, it is the selection of people, because basically all of you, my friends, are the ones I consider of the most bold and clever, in one way or another, and I would not like any of you to be on the side of evil...

Flattery will get you nowhere.

As for the matter of fake reveals which you broach there, I have yet to witness such an attempt being made successfully, but historical chronicles do mention precedences. Now as you are no doubt aware, the best way for such a fake claimant to fool us would be to sacrifice a real wolf in order to gain our trust, and the cobbler is in no position to do that, even if they were willing to, being as much in the dark as to the wolves' identity as we are. They might, of course, get a wolf lynched by mistake, deeming said wolf innocent, but then that would ill save the evil side. Therefore I don't think the danger of a cobbler fake-revealing very high, considering all sides. A wolf doing it, however, would be quite a different matter, as they could use their knowledge of who is furry and who isn't to lend credibility to their pretended dreams.

On the other hand, the cobbler, or a wolf, might still risk it in the hope to thus draw out the true Seer for the wolves to kill, as you seem to be considering here:

Originally Posted by Legate

so if this happened, the contested Seer or whoever should be careful about it and judge for him/herself whether it is wise to contest the fake-Seer's claim or not at that point...

This is a two-edged blade. A false claim that is uncontested for too long and not disproven by mislynchings might be believed over a delayed counter-reveal... I think there are precedences to that in the histories, too. But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, and in the meantime I trust in the wisdom of our
Seer to handle these matters without our prompting.

(x-ed with Zil and Nogrod)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Legate

I am saying, I believe, quite obvious, or easily recognisable things, but then, it is not so obvious, and just in case... and also, like I said, it's Day 1. We don't have any lead to start with, we should stir some discussion. So let's do it, so that by the end of the Day we can have some idea whom to vote...

It's true, you are, and this very trait is what led me to think you evil when last we met. However, given that you've said that you're stirring up the rest of us here... I believe I'm okay with you, for now, Legate.

In other news, I'm finding something slightly off about Pitch. He's only made one post thus far, but as I read it there were points at which I felt he was being awfully... well, the pun is inevitable... agreeable.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Flattery will get you nowhere.

Right on spot Pitch. I paused at that while reading but got carried away by the cobbler-speculation... (but it did feed to my paranoia at the first read) The wolves will try to be nice and friendly. The innocents will be brutal and openly attacking people (hopefully). The wolves would love "friendliness-based lottery" of votes, while we innocents need to find out who the honey-tongued villains are.

Although I'm not too sure that quote merits as a reason to suspect Legate as you could read it as an IC comment as well.

Originally Posted by Pitchie

As for the matter of fake reveals which you broach there, I have yet to witness such an attempt being made successfully, but historical chronicles do mention precedences.

It depends on what is the definition of a "succesful false reveal". The cobblers - or wolves - doing a false reveal tend to die rather quick, but sometimes they have carried the game by that one or two Day delay they manage to create... So it is a real possibility, and a real threat.

Originally Posted by Pitchie

But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, and in the meantime I trust in the wisdom of our Seer to handle these matters without our prompting.

As I said earlier, let's go for any signs of wolvery for now, toDay, toMorrow... if we get a good hunch on a cobbler and if we are totally baffled with the wolves, let's then try to lynch the cobbler (it might be a wolf trying to act like a cobbler as well, not an unheard of scenario either).

It is good to note all suspicious acting - but that of the gifteds (there are such a number of sad examples). The gifteds should stay calm...

EDIT: X'd with Legate & Shasta

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It depends on what is the definition of a "succesful false reveal". The cobblers - or wolves - doing a false reveal tend to die rather quick, but sometimes they have carried the game by that one or two Day delay they manage to create... So it is a real possibility, and a real threat.

Oh, I can think of one off the top of my head... isn't that right, Boromir88?

[Boromir88]

How can you all jibber-jabber so much so quickly. Everyone's posting such long long paragraphs. *sigh*

The only thing I read after my post (since I just scanned the page for bolded Boro's)

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Oh, I can think of one off the top of my head... isn't that right, Boromir88?

I can think of more!

Guess I should read all the text that isn't bolded Boro's, eh.

[Glirdan]

Originally Posted by Boro

How can you all jibber-jabber so much so quickly. Everyone's posting such long long paragraphs. *sigh*

And you had to go and ruin it! Now everyone's completely silent.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

And you had to go and ruin it! Now everyone's completely silent.

Hem, hem...

Anywho, first impressions (because it's too quiet! ):

Shasta: Evil wolfykins...

Zil: I...I think you're okie...

Legate: ...good boy?

Pitchie: Oh so dis-Agreeable!

Nogrod: Scandalously non-evil! And just plain scandalous...

Boro: Can't skim for his own name properly. So possily non-ebil...

Glirdy: I doesn't suspect him, precious.

And I have no read on the girls. At all.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Right on spot Pitch. I paused at that while reading but got carried away by the cobbler-speculation... (but it did feed to my paranoia at the first read) The wolves will try to be nice and friendly. The innocents will be brutal and openly attacking people (hopefully). The wolves would love "friendliness-based lottery" of votes, while we innocents need to find out who the honey-tongued villains are.

Although I'm not too sure that quote merits as a reason to suspect Legate as you could read it as an IC comment as well.

It was partially in-character, but it was also stating the truth, although it was rather random: just if I put it in other words, the list of players does not look encouraging - in these numbers, whichever way the Wolf-team is built, there definitely is somebody really nasty, and I think we only miss the Saucepan Man and Roa for the fray.

As I said earlier, let's go for any signs of wolvery for now, toDay, toMorrow... if we get a good hunch on a cobbler and if we are totally baffled with the wolves, let's then try to lynch the cobbler (it might be a wolf trying to act like a cobbler as well, not an unheard of scenario either).

I am definitely for going for Wolves in general. And I think nobody ever said anything about going after a Cobbler. Cobbler should be ignored, ignored, ignored (as one Red Elf once used to say), but the point was to make sure the Gifteds don't do, hum hom, anything hasty.

EDIT: crossposted with Shasta and Pitch
EDITEDIT: And since I just looked at the clock and became horrified by the vision of the length of my sleep, I shall leave ye too... see you later...

[Nerwen]

Nerwen, as was her habit in idle moments, reached automatically for her knife so that she might do some carving, before remembering that their weapons had been taken from them, and that here there was no wood for her to whittle into the shape of soaring eagles or running stags. Without anything to occupy them, her hands felt strangely empty.

Master Nogrod had chided her many times for her inability to keep still– a serious defect in a Hunter. Now, unable to contain her restlessness, she rose and paced up and down the dank stone cell, thanking any Power that might still be looking out for the hapless Noldor that the cruel Sorcerer had, so far, neglected to chain them to the wall. That was something.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

As for the matter of fake reveals which you broach there, I have yet to witness such an attempt being made successfully, but historical chronicles do mention precedences. Now as you are no doubt aware, the best way for such a fake claimant to fool us would be to sacrifice a real wolf in order to gain our trust, and the cobbler is in no position to do that, even if they were willing to, being as much in the dark as to the wolves' identity as we are. They might, of course, get a wolf lynched by mistake, deeming said wolf innocent, but then that would ill save the evil side. Therefore I don't think the danger of a cobbler fake-revealing very high, considering all sides. A wolf doing it, however, would be quite a different matter, as they could use their knowledge of who is furry and who isn't to lend credibility to their pretended dreams.

You seem to assume that this "Cobbler" person– how terrible to think there's treachery among us! Though, perhaps, hardly surprising. *sigh* It seems the Doom of Mandos will dog our people to the end of days... –Where was I? Oh yes. You seem to assume that the traitor, not to mention those of us whose souls have been taken by the accursed Lord of Wolves, would reveal only as the Seer. Why should that be?

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I am definitely for going for Wolves in general. And I think nobody ever said anything about going after a Cobbler. Cobbler should be ignored, ignored, ignored (as one Red Elf once used to say), but the point was to make sure the Gifteds don't do, hum hom, anything hasty.

Nay, for this traitor may yet be a great help to the wolves in the end.

EDIT: typo.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Nay, for this traitor may yet be a great help to the wolves in the end.

Indeed, yes, Nerwen. The traitor ought not be our greatest concern, but ignored? That would be unwise.

[Loslote]

I do believe I shall display the traditional youth's habit of sleeping in for remarkable lengths of time...and hopefully (*crosses fingers*) the traditional youth's habit of being awake late into the evening.

As for the Cobbler, I'd say ignore xem for now. If they want to false reveal, let them have fun, and then let them go "oh. Right. I'm dead now". Other than false revealing, I don't think they'll be all that much trouble until later on, so using up a lynch on them wouldn't be the best option.

Besides, how else are we going to make sure Boro's a wolf than letting him kill off the Cobbler during the Night?

[wilwarin538]

A Cobbler that doesn't know who the wolves are and can be detected by the Seer is really not that huge of a threat, until the end of the game when their vote can do harm. So I'm not overly concerned about them at the moment. Hopefully the wolves get him, I always love it when that happens.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It depends on what is the definition of a "succesful false reveal". The cobblers - or wolves - doing a false reveal tend to die rather quick, but sometimes they have carried the game by that one or two Day delay they manage to create... So it is a real possibility, and a real threat.

A false reveal could potentially even end up helping us. I remember my only game as a cobbler I false revealed as the ranger and ended up accidently giving away who a wolf was and helping the village win. But I suppose that's a rare occurence...

And about reveals in general. I think the only time a Seer should reveal are the following: a) they have a wolf, b) they are in danger of being lynched and have info and have not left any useful hints, or c) close to the end of the game, where even known innocents could come in handy. A time that the Seer should not reveal: a) when someone false reveals, since it'll be obvious they're lying eventually, so please don't give yourself away or b) just for the fun of it.

I'm ok with a Ranger reveal if they are in danger of being lynched, and pretty much only then. I'm never ok with a Hunter reveal, since that defeats the whole purpose of the role, being that death is when they do their special thing, and since an innocent can't die with them when they are lynched (right?) then risk of lynch is not a valid reason to reveal. That's just my opinion.

Anyway, off to bed. I should be on randomly in the morning. I have a dentist appointment that ends very close to DL, so I may vote early just to be on the safe side.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Indeed, I marvel at your audacity in suggesting such a thing, Master Nogrod. Holy Elbereth, there are ladies among us, and one of them a young maiden! Have you no decency?


Flattery will get you nowhere.

As for the matter of fake reveals which you broach there, I have yet to witness such an attempt being made successfully, but historical chronicles do mention precedences. Now as you are no doubt aware, the best way for such a fake claimant to fool us would be to sacrifice a real wolf in order to gain our trust, and the cobbler is in no position to do that, even if they were willing to, being as much in the dark as to the wolves' identity as we are. They might, of course, get a wolf lynched by mistake, deeming said wolf innocent, but then that would ill save the evil side. Therefore I don't think the danger of a cobbler fake-revealing very high, considering all sides. A wolf doing it, however, would be quite a different matter, as they could use their knowledge of who is furry and who isn't to lend credibility to their pretended dreams.

On the other hand, the cobbler, or a wolf, might still risk it in the hope to thus draw out the true Seer for the wolves to kill, as you seem to be considering here:

This is a two-edged blade. A false claim that is uncontested for too long and not disproven by mislynchings might be believed over a delayed counter-reveal... I think there are precedences to that in the histories, too. But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, and in the meantime I trust in the wisdom of our
Seer to handle these matters without our prompting.

(x-ed with Zil and Nogrod)

Here you are, Pitch. Bolding mine. I've noticed several other points ("Thanks for the advice" sticks out most noticably) as I've read the Day, as well.

I have to vote in a few minutes. I'd prefer not to turn this into Shasta vs. Lottie, but I will if I have to.