WW LXXXII: Return to Tol-in-Gaurhoth - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Nogrod · 10-09-2010, 06:09 PM

In retrospect it is easy to say, that the beginning of D2 was really odd as no one seemed to pay heed to the issue we'd face that Day. Though for wolves it was not a retrospective thing: they must have known the situation and its implications from the get go...

There was a serious issue with Pitch to be dealt with - like he himself said that by the Ockham's razor he's the one to check out... and to be fair, we hit the ideas only when we do.

So how did it start?

Boro and I just commented on the ranger-save.

Legate made a long post speculating on this and that but not touching the issue.

Boro says Shasta would have left a hint.

Ozban answers Leg's question on him.

Legate says he didn't find anything from Shasta's posting. (!!!) And comments on Ozban's answer.

Pitchie says Shasta might have hinted on innocent Nerwen because he couldn't have hinted at Pitchwolf (which we now know is true). NB. See how a known innocent acts in comparison!!!

Boro comes with his analysis of Shasta's posting and saying the inevitable: on the basis of Shasta's posting, Pitchie is the one to suspect.

Skip crossposts with Boro and defends his "not willing to disclose the reasons" by saying he thought Lottie was the seer. Wonders if Shasta would have left some hints, maybe Pitch! NB. That was a sneaky way of hinting at it (remember he crossposted) while not committing to it!

Nog speculates about the interpretation of last-minute votes - and goes out saying "too much coming fore puzzling my mind" (I had seen Boro's post about Shasta & Pitch and skip's defence while previewing the post).

Pitch comments on Skip.

Legate makes a list of people - for Pitchie, no mention of his possible role in relation to Shasta! Light defence of him - but in a roundabout way...

Nog comments on Shasta's actions and says him being the seer could explain his suspicious-looking attack "out of the blue" on Pitch - but feels it problematic interpraetation as it would mean Shasta was quite a reckless seer.

Legate answers a question to him by me, wonders why people thought Shasta more guilty than Lottie, then says: it is equally possible Shasta dreamt of Pitchwolf or Nerwinnocent; says Boro's points are convincing but still thinks Pitchie is innocent (what?), believes Shasta dreamt of Nerwinnocent (what? compare to the earlier "equally possible").

Bah... I'm not going to continue on this as it looks like it takes hours and I think I've found enough for the work for now. I really would like to hear what Legate has to say of this record.

To me it looks like someone who knew very well Pitchie was innocent but who wished to lay low as not to be seen as one not too keen on raising the discussion or hammering it out. I know him to be such an intelligent guy that it totally baffles me he does not entertain the possibility Pitchie is a wolf earlier - and when he feels forced to take sides he nicely takes "the right side" against "all evidence" we had thus far (and not discussing the evidence but just taking sides).

Or is he the cobbler? That could explain a lot as well...

Boromir88 · 10-09-2010, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

To me it looks like someone who knew very well Pitchie was innocent but who wished to lay low as not to be seen as one not too keen on raising the discussion or hammering it out. I know him to be such an intelligent guy that it totally baffles me he does not entertain the possibility Pitchie is a wolf earlier - and when he feels forced to take sides he nicely takes "the right side" against "all evidence" we had thus far (and not discussing the evidence but just taking sides).

Or is he the cobbler? That could explain a lot as well...

Could be. I believe it was Pitch who brought that up yesterday. The cobbler would have been in a peculiar situation of what he/she should do. Not knowing anyone's role whether to defend him and focus everything away from Pitch or just go on with what was turning out to be the easy lynch yesterday.

Nogrod · 10-09-2010, 06:55 PM

I'm off to sleep, but here's my two cents on the situation.

With the lucky strike of the seer, who attacked Pitchie full frontal with odd reasons and got lynched on D1, the wolves must have "known" that Pitchie was the lynch of the Day yesterDay.

So first I thought I should find those who went for lynching Pitchie the strongest, but then I realised that at least smart wolves would like to stress the opposite, or at least try to downplay the scenario to look good afterwards.

So here's why I'm looking at you Legate...

For now I'm thinking Boro and Nerwen look good both for their attitude towards Pitchie - seeing the situation, making a case of it but at the same time taking the innocent's reservations - and their general reasonableness (Nerwen also because of the probable seer dream).

Legate and wilwa look suspicious on the account of trying to evade the Pitch-issue. And Lottie, for other reasons (=yesterDays posting with all those scenarios of her intentionally playing the seer after getting caught).

I first added Zil to this list for his "ready quotes" for what the wolves thought... but looking at his answer here I must agree it wouldn't take but a look back at what Glirdy said... something I haven't done myself.

Back later toDay.

Someone should check the voting - and especially the reasons given, and how they relate to what the people have said earlier. I'm not sure how much we can read from those as it would have been easy for a wolf to either back the lynching of Pitch or be against it, but it would be good to have that on our sight for review anyway. Sometimes the small details open the answers...

wilwarin538 · 10-09-2010, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Legate and wilwa look suspicious on the account of trying to evade the Pitch-issue.

Evade? I was one of the firsts to vote for him! I was going on all Day about how there was a chance he was guilty so we had to lynch him to find out. He sadly turned out innocent, but we had a very good reason to go for him.

10-09-2010, 06:09 PM	#1
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	In retrospect it is easy to say, that the beginning of D2 was really odd as no one seemed to pay heed to the issue we'd face that Day. Though for wolves it was not a retrospective thing: they must have known the situation and its implications from the get go... There was a serious issue with Pitch to be dealt with - like he himself said that by the Ockham's razor he's the one to check out... and to be fair, we hit the ideas only when we do. So how did it start? Boro and I just commented on the ranger-save. Legate made a long post speculating on this and that but not touching the issue. Boro says Shasta would have left a hint. Ozban answers Leg's question on him. Legate says he didn't find anything from Shasta's posting. (!!!) And comments on Ozban's answer. Pitchie says Shasta might have hinted on innocent Nerwen because he couldn't have hinted at Pitchwolf (which we now know is true). NB. See how a known innocent acts in comparison!!! Boro comes with his analysis of Shasta's posting and saying the inevitable: on the basis of Shasta's posting, Pitchie is the one to suspect. Skip crossposts with Boro and defends his "not willing to disclose the reasons" by saying he thought Lottie was the seer. Wonders if Shasta would have left some hints, maybe Pitch! NB. That was a sneaky way of hinting at it (remember he crossposted) while not committing to it! Nog speculates about the interpretation of last-minute votes - and goes out saying "too much coming fore puzzling my mind" (I had seen Boro's post about Shasta & Pitch and skip's defence while previewing the post). Pitch comments on Skip. Legate makes a list of people - for Pitchie, no mention of his possible role in relation to Shasta! Light defence of him - but in a roundabout way... Nog comments on Shasta's actions and says him being the seer could explain his suspicious-looking attack "out of the blue" on Pitch - but feels it problematic interpraetation as it would mean Shasta was quite a reckless seer. Legate answers a question to him by me, wonders why people thought Shasta more guilty than Lottie, then says: it is equally possible Shasta dreamt of Pitchwolf or Nerwinnocent; says Boro's points are convincing but still thinks Pitchie is innocent (what?), believes Shasta dreamt of Nerwinnocent (what? compare to the earlier "equally possible"). Bah... I'm not going to continue on this as it looks like it takes hours and I think I've found enough for the work for now. I really would like to hear what Legate has to say of this record. To me it looks like someone who knew very well Pitchie was innocent but who wished to lay low as not to be seen as one not too keen on raising the discussion or hammering it out. I know him to be such an intelligent guy that it totally baffles me he does not entertain the possibility Pitchie is a wolf earlier - and when he feels forced to take sides he nicely takes "the right side" against "all evidence" we had thus far (and not discussing the evidence but just taking sides). Or is he the cobbler? That could explain a lot as well... __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...

10-09-2010, 06:55 PM	#3
Nogrod Flame of the Ainulindalë Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Wearing rat's coat, crowskin, crossed staves in a field behaving as the wind behaves Posts: 9,308	I'm off to sleep, but here's my two cents on the situation. With the lucky strike of the seer, who attacked Pitchie full frontal with odd reasons and got lynched on D1, the wolves must have "known" that Pitchie was the lynch of the Day yesterDay. So first I thought I should find those who went for lynching Pitchie the strongest, but then I realised that at least smart wolves would like to stress the opposite, or at least try to downplay the scenario to look good afterwards. So here's why I'm looking at you Legate... For now I'm thinking Boro and Nerwen look good both for their attitude towards Pitchie - seeing the situation, making a case of it but at the same time taking the innocent's reservations - and their general reasonableness (Nerwen also because of the probable seer dream). Legate and wilwa look suspicious on the account of trying to evade the Pitch-issue. And Lottie, for other reasons (=yesterDays posting with all those scenarios of her intentionally playing the seer after getting caught). I first added Zil to this list for his "ready quotes" for what the wolves thought... but looking at his answer here I must agree it wouldn't take but a look back at what Glirdy said... something I haven't done myself. Back later toDay. Someone should check the voting - and especially the reasons given, and how they relate to what the people have said earlier. I'm not sure how much we can read from those as it would have been easy for a wolf to either back the lynching of Pitch or be against it, but it would be good to have that on our sight for review anyway. Sometimes the small details open the answers... __________________ Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet...