Werewolf LXXXIII: The Nightmare on the East Road

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Would you like to bring yourself to the spotlight the next Day calling "hey, it was me the BW picked! Probably for no reason, we must have a reaally bad BW choosing an innocent like that!"

It is extremely unlikely the BW catches a gifted each night, so I don't see what's the problem.

in the endgame there might be chances of locating the other side, but then they are already deadly enemies...

So, Boro, how about the BW winning with the wolves?

[Aganzir]

The votes:
Eomer - Agan
Glirdan - wilwa
Volo - Agan 2
sally - Agan 3
Greenie - Glirdan

Thanks guys.

As for me, I could vote today for sally, Nogrod, Volo (if one of us has to die, I'd much rather it was him ), maybe Glirdan (if doing that helps me save myself). The people I'm not voting for (unless something very drastic happens) are Greenie, wilwa, EW, Form, Inzil, Pitch.

Now for some tea.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

The votes:
Eomer - Agan
Glirdan - wilwa
Volo - Agan 2
sally - Agan 3
Greenie - Glirdan

As said before, I don't think Agan should die toDay, so if I'm to cast a useful vote, it needs to be either Glirdan-ward or Wilwa-ward. Of the two, I've found Glirdan more entertaining toDay, and Wilwa slightly more useful...

But it's Day 1, and slightness is slight... so...

++ Wilwarin

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm here and reading, for the end of the day (luckily enough!) I have to read page 2, but will be here soonish.

[Kath]

Well we apparently know the lynch choices for toDay then! So I'll go look at their posts and then vote.

Agan - suggests the person stunned reveals. Interesting idea, it would narrow down possibilities ... does it end up revealing Gifteds though and thus helping the wolves more? Basically saying just don't forget TBW in case it comes back to bite you later. Takes against Glirdan as well. Her and wilwa as buddies sounds unlikely given that they both suspect him. Suspects Nog for twisting her words or at least continuing to misunderstand them. Says 'trust me' waaaay too much.

Wilwa - saw the downsides of having the stunned person reveal. Says focusing on TBW distracts from the more immediate danger of wolves and cobblers. Seems to have pretty clear and thought through reasons against Agan's revealing plan. I thought she was looking pretty good but then she takes against Glirdan for no reason I can particularly see.

Glirdan - says focus on the wolves and cobblers and let the less obviously dangerous Gifted's sort themselves out. Makes sense to me though in these early Days we're as likely to get one of them as we are anything else! Adapts Agan's TBW outing plan to work for cobblers.

Right, well. To be honest none of them seem desperately suspicious! I'd be more tempted to go for wilwa because to be honest I can't see the reasoning behind Glirdan being suspicious. He's doing stream-of-consciousness posting but it doesn't seem particularly guilt-ridden.

So:

++WILWA

Random aside: Ooh Pitch have I? When was that? Was it a reading or something?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Kath

Agan - suggests the person stunned reveals. Interesting idea, it would narrow down possibilities ... does it end up revealing Gifteds though and thus helping the wolves more? Basically saying just don't forget TBW in case it comes back to bite you later. Takes against Glirdan as well. Her and wilwa as buddies sounds unlikely given that they both suspect him. Suspects Nog for twisting her words or at least continuing to misunderstand them. Says 'trust me' waaaay too much.

I also have a tendency to be wary of anyone in this game who says "trust me".

Originally Posted by Kath

Wilwa - saw the downsides of having the stunned person reveal. Says focusing on TBW distracts from the more immediate danger of wolves and cobblers. Seems to have pretty clear and thought through reasons against Agan's revealing plan. I thought she was looking pretty good but then she takes against Glirdan for no reason I can particularly see.

Well, she did somewhat explain it, I think. And he also voted her for what he said was no reason at all.

Ok. Fine.

For lack of other options:

++Glirdan

I can't bring myself to vote Volo toDay, and Glirdan has the random vote for Wilwa and something of a nervy edge to his posts.

x/d with the last four

[Aganzir]

Eomer - Agan
Glirdan - wilwa
Volo - Agan 2
sally - Agan 3
Greenie - Glirdan
wilwa - Glirdan 2
Form - wilwa 2

Left: Agan, Zil, Kath, Lottie, Nerwen, Nogrod, Pitch, Shasta, EW

Is anyone else considering Nog or Volo?

[Aganzir]

Nog's last post makes considerably more sense than his earlier ones. I'm a bit torn about him at the moment - on the one hand, the way he treated me is freaking suspicious; on the other hand, he's also being a rational (and amusing) Nog. I might be tempted to give him a pass for today... but then, I'm all too aware of how smart a baddie he can be. Grr I'm confused.

[Inziladun]

*slides into chair*

DL happens to be at the exact time my work shift ends, and there's some stuff I need to get done before then.

Looks like a battle of the bandwagons at this point. Three for Agan, two apiece for Glirdy and Wilwa.

The Agan train still looks odd to me. She may be a baddie laughing her head off, but I can't get behind her lynch now.

Wilwa's done nothing to raise hackles.

I'd really be tempted to vote for Volo, but it seems wrong to do so when he hasn't played in so long. I'm such a softie, I know.

Eomer could be a possibility for getting the push against Agan started. I think Volo looks worse than he does, though.

x/d with the last three

[Boromir88]

30 minutes left.

[The Elf-warrior]

I'm gonna go with
++Volo.
I think Shasta found a freudian slip. I haven't read any farther than Nogrod's post after Shasta.

[Volo]

I'll try clearing up the misunderstandings briefly.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Agreed that who isn't with us is against us, but what exactly do two you mean with "the BW can even be really useful later on" (to whom?) and "whether she plays for us or for the wolves"? The BW's stunnings may happen to work in favour of one party now or the other next, but xe wins if xe's the sole survivor, so xe wants all of us dead in the long run.

When I wrote that I hadn't realized exactly what you mention here, I thought that the BW wins if either the Innocents or the Wolves win and the BW is still alive. So from the post you are refering to, I have changed my mind, and while the BW can be useful by stunning the last Wolf, it would probably be unintentional.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

How will the BW have these "educated hunches"? Xe will know who xe decided to stun, but not necessarily whether xe hit a wolf or a Gifted. How could xe know if xe hit the Seer and caused the loss of a dream, or caused Ferny to be unable to spy for the Night? The only concrete information the BW could get from xer stunning actions is if two wolves are gone already and there isn't a kill during a Night, meaning xe nailed the remaining wolf.

This is a game where certain knowledge is rare. Post-mortem role revelations and the dreams of a dead Seer are of such quality, but not much else. However players are making accusations based on little hunches, glimpses and clues, which are not definite. The BW also plays by these rules, being quite similar to an Ordo. However, xe can stun, which affects xer way of looking at players' roles. The knowledge of someone being stunned will certainly affect the way the BW looks upon xer victim next Day and might notice things others wouldn't necessarily notice. By "mildly eductated hunches" I meant a wider perspective than that of an ordo's.
Related to this was my comment of not angering the BW, which has also been understood in a way I didn't mean it. Based on basic WW psychology I see the following scenario very likely: The BW is suspected for one reason or the other and is very likely or certainly going to be lynched. Xer reaction to this is, probably, wanting revenge to those who caused xer demise, who, in the case of a lynch, are the Innocents (the lynch being the Innocents' way of killing). Xe can revenge by making the game more favourable to the enemies of xer enemies, the Wolves. And this is done by the BW telling on the game thread who xe thinks are the Gifteds - something a Cobbler would do in the similar situation. All in all this is a minor point explained in a long way and this discussion should perhaps be forgotten in favour of using up time for the real game, instead of meta.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

Quite a lot of people talking about 'might' with nothing to back them up. And what's this about 'we'? As far as I know, innocents don't kill anything "quietly during the Night".

What I meant by the Innocents killing a Cobbler quietly during the Night was TB ('we') using his power during the Night to get rid of the BW, who is not unlike a Cobbler, which is an advantage to the Innocents. Refer to aforementioned reasons.

Originally Posted by The Elf-warrior

I'm gonna go with
++Volo.
I think Shasta found a freudian slip. I haven't read any farther than Nogrod's post after Shasta.

I assume you refer to the part I quoted. Well, I hope this post clarified enough.

[Nogrod]

What I think of Volo? Well, he might be a total nut-head baddie trying to go with the "then going flow" - or then he is an ordo who thought I was the seer.

Hard to say, which one.

[Nogrod]

I actually write this like ten minutes before the DL just to able to send it in time. Some of it has been said already and some might be redundant by now. But whatever.

Greenie is over-rationalising her vote. She looks suspicious.

I'm also worried about wilwa. She voted for Glirdy too easily.

Pitch is nicely saving wilwa (I've had a bad feeling about him all the Day - he's reasonable, but then again like a cheetah looking for a victim to jump upon).

Those two being wolves and not knowing of the cobbler would just make sense.

Aganzir is a baddie. Which type? A cobbler, of course.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

She may be a baddie laughing her head off, but I can't get behind her lynch now.

Trust me Inzil, if I was a baddie I totally wouldn't be laughing.

I'd really be tempted to vote for Volo, but it seems wrong to do so when he hasn't played in so long. I'm such a softie, I know.

It's the same with me, but I at least have the excuse of his vote for me. And he tends to be a bit eccentric sometimes.

Eomer could be a possibility for getting the push against Agan started. I think Volo looks worse than he does, though.

I could probably vote for him too. It would combine revenge and voting for a (thus far) non-substantial player nicely. Okay well I'm not revenge-voting per se, but I know he voted for an innocent which makes his vote either misguided or evil (or random, but you know what I mean ).

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Not really. Think again, and look at all you've said.

Excluding misunderstandings on both sides, I think Nog was pushing it a lot farther than necessary. I realised there were problems with my suggestion and said it aloud, but he kept pointing out stuff and making me look like I was trying to distract everyone on purpose.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Excluding misunderstandings on both sides, I think Nog was pushing it a lot farther than necessary. I realised there were problems with my suggestion and said it aloud, but he kept pointing out stuff and making me look like I was trying to distract everyone on purpose.

Aren't you now playing yourself a bit better than you are Aganzir? That "revealing the gifteds" stuff was hastily made by me (I did get carried away with my realisation you had to be the cobbler), but I still would hate a kind of universal deal that those stunned should reveal themselves as for a gifted that would be a really tight spot - and not good for us. (Argued that earlier)

But I still think you tried to divert our discussion into those "grandiose-plans" which would have required everyone's consent - and if they had gotten just a bit more air under their wings we would have used the whole Day into them. And that would have been counter-productive indeed.

It's D1 and all that and we need to discuss something, but not on a grand plan (well, two of them) requiring everyone's acceptance and consent which you know very well we will never reach!!!

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

7. LOOKING FURRY/PEACHY/SKELETAL
Lottie - leave the BW alone if we have a chance to lynch xem? No, no, and no again, and I can't see an innocent suggesting that if she's thought out the ramifications; could well be the BW herself, or a cobbler or wolf trying to keep the BW around as long as xe won't prevent any Night-kills.

What? No. Just, no. If we think we have TBW, don't lynch him right away. Let TB, whose job it is to kill xem, kill xem. If he doesn't for some reason, lynch him the next Day, but you will notice how we get an extra lynch and are one baddie down this way.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Lottie. I don't really like her insistence that we shouldn't try to lynch the BW. Pitch has a good point against her, but I haven't seen enough from her (apart from BW talk) to have a real opinion.

Insistance? Really? I was around at the very beginning of the Day. I haven't had time to really insist anything! You should remember what my insisting looks like. This isn't it.

Also: so, so sorry I'm so late. For some reason I was thinking DL was an hour later.

Brief list: I feel good about Nog, Glirdy, and Vanilwuffin. I feel not-so-good about Agan and Pitchie, but mostly just because they've been silly about TBW. Also Volo, but I've never played with him, so...meh.

EDIT: xed since Pitchie

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Loslote

If we think we have TBW, don't lynch him right away. Let TB, whose job it is to kill xem, kill xem. If he doesn't for some reason, lynch him the next Day

I still don't think it's quite that simple, but I won't start arguing about it 15 minutes before the deadline.

I haven't had time to really insist anything! You should remember what my insisting looks like. This isn't it.

Hahaha that's true! Yeah maybe insistence was a bit too strong a word.

I don't know what to think of the fact that I disagree with Lottie on almost everyone.

Eomer - Agan
Glirdan - wilwa
Volo - Agan 2
sally - Agan 3
Greenie - Glirdan
wilwa - Glirdan 2
Form - wilwa 2
Kath - wilwa 3
Pitch - Glirdan 3

Left: Agan, Zil, Lottie, Nerwen, Nogrod, Shasta, EW

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

It is extremely unlikely the BW catches a gifted each night, so I don't see what's the problem.

One Night is enough. If everyone is thought of telling and then one Day no one doesn't - the BW has a BINGO. And when people tell, the wolves have a good candidate for consideration ("the BW thought of that as a gifted, let's consider her/him as well more closely").

And I wouldn't like to put our gifteds into that position. If you would, then you probably have evil intentions. Or you don't think clearly (which I doubt as I do know you're an intelligent person).


Anyway. It's getting late and I'm done with this discussion. I need to take a look back on others and will not be derailed by cobblerish second questions. And if you're innocent Agan, please help us finding suspicious behaviour.

For I do agree this lazyness on behalf of most of the village is just plain shameful and I could actually vote fex. Glirdan just on the basis of pure annoyance... *random vote, please*

EDIT: X'd with Agan

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

My treasure, Nog was very specific about Agan being a cobbler (which, incidentally wouldn't greatly surprise me). So, if anything, this hypothetical attack on a Nogwight would point away from Agan as a wolf, wouldn't it?

I would think so. With this:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I actually write this like ten minutes before the DL just to able to send it in time. Some of it has been said already and some might be redundant by now. But whatever.

Greenie is over-rationalising her vote. She looks suspicious.

I'm also worried about wilwa. She voted for Glirdy too easily.

Pitch is nicely saving wilwa (I've had a bad feeling about him all the Day - he's reasonable, but then again like a cheetah looking for a victim to jump upon).

Those two being wolves and not knowing of the cobbler would just make sense.

Aganzir is a baddie. Which type? A cobbler, of course.

Nog not only said he thought Agan was a Cobbler, he singled out Wilwa and Pitch as potential wolves. And he voted for Agan anyway.

And there's this:

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Anyway. It's getting late and I'm done with this discussion. I need to take a look back on others and will not be derailed by cobblerish second questions. And if you're innocent Agan, please help us finding suspicious behaviour.

"If you're innocent Agan"- does that look like "specificity", as outlined by Shasta here?

As an interesting aside, this would also point at one or more of Greenie, Pitch, Wilwa, and Agan as wolves. Agan is probably the most likely of this bunch, considering that Nog was most specific about her. How likely it is that an Aganwolf would have gone after Nog (expecting that Nog-Seer would die, of course) knowing that his death would point to her is debatable, however.

All this is supposed to be evidence on why Nog could have been the wolves' target. I don't see it, and I don't understand why Shasta's pushing this so.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Here's a general observation: I said it didn't surprise me that the BW was the hot topic on Day One. However, it's also true that when there's a werebear in the village, the folk most eager to discuss it tend to be the cobbler, the wolves and, oddly enough, quite often the bear as well. I bet Mr Goatleaf wasn't the only baddie in the thik of it yesterDay.

Possibly. It's worth looking into.

x/d with Lottie

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I would think so. With this:



Nog not only said he thought Agan was a Cobbler, he singled out Wilwa and Pitch as potential wolves. And he voted for Agan anyway.

And there's this:



"If you're innocent Agan"- does that look like "specificity", as outlined by Shasta here?



All this is supposed to be evidence on why Nog could have been the wolves' target. I don't see it, and I don't understand why Shasta's pushing this so.



Possibly. It's worth looking into.

x/d with Lottie

1. Nog did not say he "thought" Agan was a cobbler, he said she was one, which struck me as oddly sure and specific, yes. And he said that she was a cobbler after that quote you posted, Inzil.

And as I said once, I'm merely following an assumption - that the wolves thought Nog was the Seer and went after him, exposing a Nog-wight. Assumptions are, obviously, not something to base a case on, so I believe the one tying up discussion and making things into what they aren't is you, Inzil.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

So, Boro, how about the BW winning with the wolves?

Negative. B-W has to be the last one left. Anything short of that and it would consider its purpose a failure.

I have realized the mistake in the numbers though. Since the B-W is not counted in either the baddie nor innocent tally, but can still vote. A village with 1 wolf + 1 innocent + the Barrow-wight, the remaining wolf could still get lynched. If the innocent or B-W is lynched the wolves win. If the wolf is lynched the B-W wins. The remaining innocent is basically screwed but in the position to decide which baddie wins? *shrug*

So adendum to the wolves winning condition. If the Barrow-wight is still alive, the wolves win if the number of innocents is 1 less than their own. If the Barrow-wight is gone, the wolves win if the number of innocents is equal (or less) than their own.

How come no one pointed these holes out before we started! You had a week, you're forcing me into snap decisions!

[Kath]

Well thanks so much Eomer for that kind greeting. Let's all suspect him now for saying he was going to kill me and Form but then going after Agan! That's suspicious right?

Can someone throw a vote count at me? I have skimmed not read and that's going to stay the same really. So I'd like to know who's for the gallows and have a better look at them.

Ah and so I make no unfortunate errors ... Pitchwife - male or female?

[wilwarin538]

It just hit me that there's only an hour left to the Day, how did that happen? It seems to be coming at us way too fast.

So I need to vote, cause my family is about to sit down for a nice supper and then I have to go out. So I'm going to go for:

++ Glirdan

99% of the reason I'm voting him is because he makes no sense to me, he seems more jumpy and nervous than usual, the way he was trying to take Agan's idea and make it into something regarding Cobblers, but never really explaining how the heck that would work, and I just am not getting good vibes from him at all. The other 1% is out of spite for him voting me.

x'ed with Agan

[Aganzir]

Okay, sally doesn't look so bad anymore (apart from the fact that she didn't really come up with anything of her own)... It's funny how much more sense everybody seems to make now that I know the wolves & the BW can't win together. Way to go me.

However, Volo & Glirdan don't look any better and neither does Nog. I'm the least certain of Glirdy, but I might end up voting for him.

Also, Pitch - if I don't get something, it has nothing to do with my allegiance. I don't pretend confusion about the rules to make myself look better, I find it unsportsmanlike.

[Kath]

Eomer - Agan
Glirdan - wilwa
Volo - Agan 2
sally - Agan 3
Greenie - Glirdan
wilwa - Glirdan 2

Thanks Agan, missed that as I went through. I added wilwa's vote on. Our Canadians are voting against each other. Interesting?

[Nogrod]

So, I've been skimming the thread through and here are a few points I was able to make from it.


Lottie: Here I agree with wilwa; she was thinking about a scenario that would have given us an extra-lynch. That I would call rather good. So those easily juymping on her look more suspicious to me than her.

Sally seems to be trying this time. She's not only dealing cookies and talking random. So should I be suspicious of her? I am.

Glirdan made a totally freaky vote, even underlining the randomness of it. I've been a wolf with him two times lately and I can say it's pure horror (sorry Glirdy, but you really made me nervous those times). He's not too composed this time either and could indeed be a wolf once again (third time from late summer?). My only problem with lynching him would be - with the odds of him being a wolf once again - that he's oftentimes also the "easy victim" for lynch, because of the way he plays.


Adding this:

Eomer & Form: the veterans making their worst act and more or less refusing to play thinking they're granted to get to D2 anyway...

Reminding you about what Greenie said: it's not just the bad vote or not saying anything as such, but the fact that a wolf can hide in it the next Day just saying “oh, that was just D1, you know, just random, you can’t suspect me from it!”. And even if we all know better, we tend to want to vote rather someone we have even the slightest "real suspicion" based on what people said about other people (however many times we have been proven wrong with our hunches) than going with a random voter / talker.

*I so miss those days when non-players were lynched immediately*

Anyway, I seem to get under their spell and would be very reluctant to vote either just because it has been such a long time they have been around. You guys show you're worth skipping D1! And if one of you is a baddie I don't care how long a break you take in WW the next time, but come back and play like that I'll vote for you, on D1. And will heavily urge others to do likewise.


Heh, just saw Form's vote... well, not so bad... there's a minuscule amount of reasoning there... like a nanomillimeter of involvement. Should I call that encouraging?

[Pitchwife]

Ah, crap, now my head is swimming already. I should really know better than to indulge in Barley's brew at a time like this.
Anyway -

Originally Posted by Agan

Well, for that you can only blame yourself, not me.

Not really. Think again, and look at all you've said.

Update to my list (see #68):
- Moving wilwa from 3 to 2. She really looks like a reasonable innocent to me.
- On further consideration, same for Nerwen. I really don't think her remark about an evil Tom was serious.
- (I feel inclined to include Zil here, only I've learned the hard way that it won't do to trust him too much, however innocent he seems.)
- Moving Greenie from 5 to 4 - not because she dropped her suspicion of me (which I think wasn't badly reasoned), but because her last posts look more and more genuine to me.

On other matters, I note wilwa's objections to what I've said about Lottie, and I'm a bit concerned I may have fallen into the very trap I tried to caution against, i.e. thinking too much about the BW (and how the wolves would deal with xem) and too little about finding the wolves themselves. So if anybody finds any holes in my reasoning, for Eru's sake point them out, please.

(Kath - male, last time I checked. However, you've heard my voice on Skype, so why pretend confusion???)

(x-ed with I don't know how many)

[Pitchwife]

Let me just say Form's vote was crap. Lynch one of the players who've made most sense toDay, really? At best, it was uninFormed.

I see no urgent reason to lynch Nog or Volo yet, I'm torn about Agan but I think I like her response to suspicion and would like to keep her around, and I'm having second thoughts about Lottie thanks to wilwa (plus she's not around to explain herself). So falling back on my second-best option
++Glirdan

EDIT: x-ed #105 down

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Done with page 2, and figured I should post as it's getting near deadline.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I agree with this. If the Barrow-Wight isn't on our side, she's (potentially) against us, and I'd much rather we didn't have to worry about her in the later stages when it really matters whether she plays for us or for the wolves.

What on earth? There's no incentive for the Barrow-Wight to play for us at all, because we cannot win until the Barrow-Wight has been ousted - therefore classifying the Barrow-Wight as even "possibly" helpful makes no sense at all. I'm not sure who looks worse for bringing this point up at all - Inzil (who brought it up in the first place) or Agan (who took it and ran with it).

Originally Posted by Pitch

OK, to business. As for the cobblers, we've had this discussion any number of times, and the big problem is, as always, that it's not so easy to tell cobblerish evil from wolvish evil. TEW has a point that they would very likely prefer not to be lynched (or Night-killed*, for that matter) before they've had a chance to communicate, but then again, I think a good cobbler won't mind to be lynched in order to save who he thinks is a wolf, especially when there's two of them. On the wolves' side, we can't count on them being visibly protective of their packmates either - some will, others won't hesitate to bus one another, it really depends on the player. So the long and short of it is, if it looks suspicious, lynch it and we'll find out what it was.

Long, long post to say exactly what others have already said. I don't trust it, I don't.

Originally Posted by Wilwa

Bad idea. First of all if he chooses an Ordo they won't know they were chosen since they don't have to do anything at Night,

Don't Ordos still get a PM saying "you are stunned"? I could have sworn that was in the rules somewhere... Oh, Agan has already mentioned this. Nevermind then.

Originally Posted by Glirdan

I was looking at this and I do like this plan. My only issue with it is, even the TBW is totally playing for himself, the Wolves might find a way of using it to their advantage. But on the flip side of that coin, there stands the chance that we could catch a Wolf trying to do just that.

How, precisely? Tom Bombadil looking for the BW has nothing to do with the Wolves, as far as I can tell, so I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

Originally Posted by Agan

I'm not saying the BW should be our priority and we need to worry about her more than about the wolves & cobblers, what I'm saying is that we shouldn't forget and ignore her just because she might choose to side with us

And again, why would the BW side with us when they know we want them gone (and have to get them gone in order to win)?

Originally Posted by Glirdan

I was trying to figure out if there was anyway that we could use your voting plan to try help us oust the Cobblers

Yes, but I notice you have yet to say 'how', even if you've since dropped this 'plan'.

Originally Posted by Volo

The hunches won't be much more educated than a basic Ordo's, but the ability to stun might give more insight, nothing certain, of course, but nevertheless, if we could kill a Cobbler quietly during the Night, it would surely be an advantage.

Quite a lot of people talking about 'might' with nothing to back them up. And what's this about 'we'? As far as I know, innocents don't kill anything "quietly during the Night".

Originally Posted by Agan

I really don't like sally's vote and her reasons behind it. It's basically just repeating what others have said, and it doesn't even make sense.

I'm pulling a Lottie here and saying that people saying other people's votes for them "don't make sense" reeks of baddie-ism. But then again it is Agan, who's evil even when she's not.