Gothmog vs. Sauron

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

You are right that Sauron could be killed, but still I stand by the point that he wasn't killed by Huan. ELUDE does not mean SURVIVE or LIVE. Yes Sauron wanted to get away, but personally, I think that if he wouldn't have left his body he wouldn't die either. He'd just be controlled by Huan.

For clarity, I am not and have not been arguing that Huan killed Sauron

In fact, although in Osanwe-kenta Tolkien notes that the first bodily destruction of Sauron is recorded in the Lay of Leithian, I don't see this as necessarily the interpretation with respect to the battle of Huan and Wolf-sauron (unless I've missed something here). So far anyway, I read the various versions as relating that Sauron, by yielding to Luthien, avoided being utterly de-bodied here.

That is, although too much wedded to his form, he was not killed by Huan, but would have been unless he yielded to Luthien. Again, that doesn't seem to mix easily with JRRT's statement in Osanwe-kenta, I realize, but that said, Sauron did not, it seems to me, retreat to his master as a 'ghost' (Luthien's warning), but fled in some form in any case, after avoiding death.

In other words, 'Ere his foul spirit left its dark house' (thus, before his spirit was separated from his body) Luthien challenged him, and Sauron relented, saving himself from this. In the actual Lay itself (written much earlier than Osanwe-kenta) Luthien tells Thu that he will die...

'unless the keys thou render me
of thy black fortress, and the spell
that bindeth stone to stone thou tell,
and speak the words of opening.'

Granted here, when Thu flees there is a 'wolvish corpse' noted, but Thu yet flies to Taur-na-Fuin in another form: '... a new throne [] and darker stronghold there to build.'

To me, he still seems to have escaped death.


What think you Barrow-downers?