Currency in Aman and Arda?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

As for most of the kingdoms of Men, I guess that's just what you said - the silver pennies, I am not aware of any other mention of currency elsewhere. We can only speculate if there was more or less unified currency (perhaps left from the Númenorean times), or if other kinds of people had different currencies of their own. It would make sense, in my opinion, if the more "primitive" nations of Men had simpler sort of barter-systems, somewhere using different things than money as the "currency" (as in, it used to be e.g. silk in some nations in the past in our world, and so on); and those who came in contact with the Dúnedain (so in time of LotR, the lands which used to be the provinces of Gondor and Arnor, including Hobbit-lands

Well, there is at least one other mention of coinage in LOTR: curiously enough it also occurs in Bree. Gandalf evidently gave a "gold piece" to Butturbur out of relief that Aragorn had found the Hobbits there.

The fact that gold and silver coins were used in Bree (and probably the Shire, too, since we have many mentions of "money" by the Hobbits) would seem to add weight to the idea that at least the Kingdom of Arnor might have once had a common currency. And in Bree and the Shire, where there was apparently no central government or authority, and thus no "government" workers, only currency trading or bartering would make the local economy workable. I'm inclined to think it was only currency, because of something Butturbur said.

'[Mr. Underhill's] welcome to go where he will, as long as he pays in the morning.'

FOTR At the Sign of the Prancing Pony

No trade or service was expected of Frodo, just payment. There'd been no talk of what service Frodo and his friends could provide, nor of anything they had to trade.
Additionally, I don't recall any reference to banks or counting houses in Bree or the Shire where currency exchanges could be done, and the Kingdom or Arnor had been gone for over a thousand years, so I would think the coins would have been simple metal discs, accepted everywhere the inhabitants of those areas were likely to go.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

As for other races, and earlier times, I can imagine the Dwarves trading for gems and various metal ingots, of which they'd have really abundant amount. Gems and precious metals would be used also in "inter-racial trade", as it seems to be mentioned also in Sil and everywhere. It is worth mentioning that in the Hobbit, Thorin, when explaining the history of Erebor to Bilbo, mentions that the Dwarves under the Mountain used to trade their craft for food provided by the Men of Dale; and it is not clear whether they used money as a sort of means for it or if it was just a sort of barter-trade. Also, I don't know if the Dwarves would have had any need for having a currency among themselves.

The Dwarves who traveled through Eriador at least had some of the gold and silver coins to use in Bree and the Shire, I would think. Else they'd always be hauling around gems and possibly metal-crafted things to trade, and I'd think that would be pretty cumbersome to the traveler.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

The fact that gold and silver coins were used in Bree (and probably the Shire, too, since we have many mentions of "money" by the Hobbits) would seem to add weight to the idea that at least the Kingdom of Arnor might have once had a common currency. And in Bree and the Shire, where there was apparently no central government or authority, and thus no "government" workers, only currency trading or bartering would make the local economy workable. I'm inclined to think it was only currency, because of something Butturbur said.
[...]
Additionally, I don't recall any reference to banks or counting houses in Bree or the Shire where currency exchanges could be done, and the Kingdom or Arnor had been gone for over a thousand years, so I would think the coins would have been simple metal discs, accepted everywhere the inhabitants of those areas were likely to go.

The currency systems of the Shire and Gondor were discussed last year in this thread (which also contains some links to older ones). It seems plausible to assume that the Hobbits inherited their monetary system from the North Kingdom of old, and that the currencies of Gondor and Arnor were more or less alike if not the same (possibly pre-dating the kingdoms in exile and originating with the Númenórean colonial empire, like Legate suggested).

Originally Posted by Inziladun

The Dwarves who traveled through Eriador at least had some of the gold and silver coins to use in Bree and the Shire, I would think. Else they'd always be hauling around gems and possibly metal-crafted things to trade, and I'd think that would be pretty cumbersome to the traveler.

Probably yes. I also can't quite see the Dwarves returning home from their travels with caravans of cattle and wagons laden with grain - it seems more likely to me that they sold the products of their craft for coin which they used to buy food from Men who lived nearer their homes and have it delivered to them.

In general, I think the Dwarves were somewhat more preoccupied with notions of property and private ownership than the Elves - at least in their dealings with other peoples (see the quarrel about the Nauglamír back in the First Age). Among themselves, such issues may not have mattered quite as much, except perhaps between the different Houses (e.g. I could see the Longbeards of Moria trading mithril for gold and silver with their distant relatives); but I doubt they used any internal currency for that, in so far I'm with Legate here.

As for the Elves, I feel Legate has hit the nail on the head; and when we're talking about Aman, any idea of trade and barter seems quite out of question to me. (If you want evidence, the Silmarillion says the Noldor freely gave gems and jewels to the Teleri to do with as they pleased; and later, Fëanor in turn didn't ask Olwë 'How much for those ships', nor did he demand them as recompense for earlier gifts, but asked for permission to use them for old friendship's sake.)

[Puddleglum]

Just a couple of observations to add...

In Aman it is said of Aule:

The delight and pride of Aule is in the deed of making, and in the thing made, and neither in posession nor in his own mastery; wherefore he gives and hoards not, and is free from care, passing ever on to some new work.

Since Aule was the greatest friend (among the Valar) of the Noldor, it seems reasonable to assume that they, at least, would tend to adopt the same attitude toward making and possessing. That is, they would take such delight in the making of things (rather than in possessing them) that giving to your friends and kin (and others) would be the norm - rather than attempting to amass wealth by barter (buy-low, sell-high).

In Middle Earth, in the Hobbit, another example of trading is described where Thranduil's Wood Elves received barrels of apples, goods and wine (some from the vineyards of Dorwinion, near the sea of Ruhn) came up the river and were trans-shipped by the Lakemen. I don't thnk it's said how they paid (in goods or money), but it seems plain they paid in some way.

Also, in Rivendell Gloin tells Frodo about the tolls charged by the Beornings - indicating yet another case of payment being made (goods or money is not specified) for a service or passage.

[Morthoron]

Tolkien did not do commerce very well; in fact, he merely ignored it unless it served a specific purpose to move the story along (the barrel trade with Laketown, for instance, where there is no mention of what the Elves could use in trade/barter/currency).

The Shire and Bree are even more of an anomaly. Considering the last King of Arthedain perished nearly 1000 years previously, it seems incredible that there would be any Dunedain coinage remaining from that time period. Likewise, the Shire had no trade south to Gondor, therefore it seems unlikely that the tharni and castar coins minted in Minas Tirith would have made their way up the Greenway in an amount necessary to be used as everyday coinage.

So, how were deeds and other legal transactions processed? Who paid for the postal service and bounders (as taxation was never mentioned)? No pawn shops or usury (an age-old practice in the real world), no banks -- but, amusingly, there were lawyers (Messrs Grubb, Grubb and Burrowes).

Much like commodes and outhouses, Tolkien simply did not go into detail; otherwise, he would need a many-paged treatise explaining trade, finance, numismatics and global economics. Considering the numerous problems with his personal finances, it is my opinion that Tolkien wanted to stay as far away as possible from the dread realities of finance, even in a fantasy.

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Tolkien did not do commerce very well; in fact, he merely ignored it unless it served a specific purpose to move the story along...

So, how were deeds and other legal transactions processed?

I think you're right about such matters mostly being ignored and, for the purposes of his stories, I think he made a good decision. He was more interested, anyway (I think) in the more social aspects of how people interrelated and how they thought - and the effect their thinking had on their actions and deeds.

As regards legal matters, there was one other incident I recall where Otho demands to see Bilbo's will making Frodo Bilbo's heir (Otho would have otherwise inherited).

It was, unfortunately, very clear and correct (according to the legal customs of hobbits, which demand among other things seven signatures of witnesses in red ink).

In legal matters, the hobbits in the Shire seemed to be organized in a clan or family structure with each main family having a head. Most likely, justice was mostly handled within the family by the family/clan heads. So a formal court system (with lawyers handling prosecution, defense, etc before judges) would not have been needed or even thought of.

Interesting side note (from one of Tolkien's writings which source I would have to look for), Otho was head of the Sackville family and was hoping to gain the unusual distinction of becoming titular head of TWO families at the same time (if he had remained Bilbo's heir). Thus his wrath at being foiled by Bilbo's will was due to more than simply failing to get Bilbo's (supposed) wealth.

[skip spence]

I think it can be assumed that money of some sort (presumably in the form of coins as a general rule) was in common usage among all the peoples in the North Western Middle Earth, with the possible exception of Elves (though I think that they too may have used money; some of them certainly demonstrate possessiveness)

A few interesting instances of trade/transactions/money that popped into my head:

*Bilbo is hired as a professional thief to go along with the dwarves in The Hobbit. They sign a business contract and both parties seem to regard this as a perfectly normal proceeding.

*The S-B:s buy Bag End and there is no indication that Frodo receives any goods or services in return. But how is he paid? With a sack of gold? And if so, where does he stash it and his pre-existing funds away when he leaves on his journey? Obviously (I think) he doesn't bring all his wealth with him...

*Here's a curious one: during the Orc wars one of the Dwarves (I forget who) goes to Moria and is heckled at the Gate by the Orcs who throw spare change at his feet and call him a beggar. So Orcs also have money and make business, one might presume...

*Also, isn't it mentioned in LotR that Sauron tries to buy black stallions from the Rohrrim for a high price? What does he offer in return, you think?

*And when the Black Rider comes to the Shire he offers to pay for good information regarding Mr. Baggins, does he not?

[Bêthberry]

I suspect that the absence of many direct, specific discussions or references to money in Middle-earth arises from the fact that there were no philological quandries concering the words for coins.

Thus, Tolkien didn't have to engage in any "backformation" to create "asterisk"words for money--as Shippey has explained Tolkien's process in The Road to Middle-earth and Author of the Century .

Therefore, it just didn't interest him.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by skip spence

*Here's a curious one: during the Orc wars one of the Dwarves (I forget who) goes to Moria and is heckled at the Gate by the Orcs who throw spare change at his feet and call him a beggar. So Orcs also have money and make business, one might presume...

As a sort of general remark, I did not mention it in my earlier elaboration, because I considered it self-evident, but it seems clear to me that the more the dominion of Men was coming, the more the money was used also among other nations: simply this "invention" of Men (as I believe it is, for reasons visible above) was used so widely and the Men were everywhere, so it basically became convenient to trade with the help of money (with the exception of the Elves, who I think would have stayed with their original way of trade). However, among themselves, and in some isolated communities or in the case of some pacts (Men of Dale-Dwarves of Erebor? Some Easterlings-Sauron?), I can see the barter system still working. It was normal in the Middle Ages e.g. for vassals to give certain sums, like tribute, in, say, horses. I can imagine some of the Easterlings giving tribute to Sauron in such way, for example.

And, of course, as for the use of money by Sauron, I have no doubt that it was just a wonderful means to corrupt Men, so I am sure that at least in the exterior relations, he would've started using it very soon. After all, money is the root of all evil, right?

The example with the Black Rider is a very good show of that.

*And when the Black Rider comes to the Shire he offers to pay for good information regarding Mr. Baggins, does he not?

If I recall correctly, Khamul says "I will come back and bring gold". I believe that this is supposed to mean gold as in money, not some sort of golden ingots. I also have no doubt that something like that would be expected to mean a lot for a simple farmer like Maggot was. One interesting thing I would like to note, it seems to me that Khamul acts a bit "alienly" in this way, though, basically in the same way as I would assume some, indeed, alien from space would act if it came to Earth, about which he had learned only from books, and tried to bribe some local people. Of course, it has to do with lots of things: Khamul was in a foreign land and totally alien (indeed) society, he tried to use the method which Sauron's agents normally use for the corrupt Men for the hobbits, he also had not been doing such things very often, probably; on top of that, he was a wraith, who knows how much of empathy for human feelings, including greed, was left in him; and I wonder if even during his life, Khamul did not live in still a "pre-monetary" society, especially being an Easterling and all - so the whole concept just would not be part of his "cultural background"...