Currency in Aman and Arda?

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

After all, money is the root of all evil, right?

Not quite.

The full quotation from I Timothy 6:10 is the love of money is the root of all evil.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Not quite.

The full quotation from I Timothy 6:10 is the love of money is the root of all evil.

Ha! Why did I never think of that? Shows how one's brain just does not connect things if it thinks they are unrelated... I always thought that it is some random English (and only English) proverb...

[Rumil]

Hi all,

nice find of orcish small-change skip!

I don't think we should be unduly worried about the thought that the coinage of North-Western Middle Earth was based on a Dunedain system of a thousand years before. An old-money penny was 'd' for denarii after all, which goes back to the Romans.

And the actual coins surviving isn't the key thing, the key thing was the idea of the coin, - a copper, a silver penny, or a gold castar. As long as they were precious metal of about the right size and weight, then anything was probably acceptable. For example the Ancient Britons struck coins based on Alexander the Great's designs, but these were weirdly stylized rough copies of the originals.

I imagine the Dwarves struck coinage, probably with a hammer-and anvil design or similar, but in the same size as the old Numenorean coins, as that was what everyone was used to.

Wonder if Sauron struck his own coins? What would be the reaction if you tried to buy a pony in Bree with Sauronic pennies?? Presumably shady characters might offer to melt them down and recast in more acceptable form, for a price!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Rumil

Wonder if Sauron struck his own coins? What would be the reaction if you tried to buy a pony in Bree with Sauronic pennies?? Presumably shady characters might offer to melt them down and recast in more acceptable form, for a price!

Sauron's medium of exchange was the Eyero, I guess.

Really though, I doubt Sauron had need of his own coinage. I see Mordor as being even more of an example of Communism than the Elves. Think of it, the people there (mainly talking of the Orcs) don't even have names as far as the higher-ups are concerned; their assigned numbers seemed to be more important. The Mordor citizenry are told what to do and where to live. A free-market economy seems unnecessary and against the nature of a Sauronian society. What the Orcs of the Misty Mountains were up to was a different story.
When Khamûl told Farmer Maggot he'd bring "gold", I've always pictured him as meaning bullion. Notice he doesn't tell Maggot he'll give him "money". Pedantic, I know, but there you are.

[Galadriel55]

I think that Khamul promised Maggot gold, he meant gold coins, that being the highest coin type in value. As little as the Nazguls know about the Shire, they should know what to scare/tempt the hobbits with; they aren't that stupid. A chunk of gold would be as useful to Maggot as a sausage to a vegeterian.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I think that Khamul promised Maggot gold, he meant gold coins, that being the highest coin type in value. As little as the Nazguls know about the Shire, they should know what to scare/tempt the hobbits with; they aren't that stupid. A chunk of gold would be as useful to Maggot as a sausage to a vegeterian.

Why? Gold is gold. A coin as a coin is only a representative object as concerns its issuer, usually a government. The Hobbits weren't bound to any particular type of coinage, they only used coins because they were convenient. I don't think Maggot would have turned down a gold bar. I wouldn't!

[Galadriel55]

You wouldn't, and neither would I, but neither of us is Maggot. What use would he see in a bar of gold? It's like the Gaffer said, "cabbages and potatoes are better". They're both more down-to-earth-ish, and perhaps more realistic when it comes to the true value of things, not the value that others give them. What could you do with gold? It's an equivalent of money, but what else? Jewelry's nice, I suppose, but its not something that we really need that much. Yes, I said that gold=money, but only because people gave it this value. In reality, it is not as useful as other metals. Maggot is the kind of person that can see beyond the yellow shiny stuff. What would he do with that bar of gold? Fertilize his mushrooms with it?
He could use a few coins, though, since they are a convinient way to trade, as you said. He could get some real fertilizer with those! Gold bars aren't very convenient to trade with, unless you want a dozen wagons of manure at once...

When Legolas and Gimli talk about the caves of Aglarond, they say something about giving gold. Do you think that they meant oney or golden bars or either? Or simply the value of gold in any material/way of payment?

PS: if Maggot would not accept gold in return for information about his..."friend", he probably wouldn't have accepted anything, so I don't blae Khamul for not bribing properly.

[Puddleglum]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Why? Gold is gold. A coin as a coin is only a representative object as concerns its issuer, usually a government. The Hobbits weren't bound to any particular type of coinage, they only used coins because they were convenient. I don't think Maggot would have turned down a gold bar. I wouldn't!

Well, to put it in perspective, Butterbur offered Merry 30 silver pennies in compensation for his lost ponies. If a gold coin is of value about, say, 20 silver pennies (it may have been more), then the value of a gold coin is the value of several modes of transportation - in our society maybe that is several hundred or thousand dollars in equivalent value.

So, if the Nazgul pays with a gold ingot (enough to make several hundred or more gold coins), what is Maggot going to do with it? Walk into the nearest pub, buy a beer (for a few coppers) and ask for change ?!?!?!? He can't do much of ANYTHING with it until he finds someone with enough loose change to convert it - and with a desire to have their very own gold ingot (which THEY can't do much with).

Maybe Gondor would have a banking system able to handle/convert it. I expect the Dwarves could have converted it. But I don't see that the Shire was set up to convert something of that value.