Hin Hurin

[LadyBrooke]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Really,is that too much to ask for? I still pray that one day, curse would be removed, and on that they, because curse is finished, Lalaith, Turin and Nienor would arise as skeletons and slowly gain meat till they become exactly as they once were. I repeat: is that too much to ask?

While I doubt you meant it that way, the first thing that comes to mind by slowly gaining meat is zombish looking Lalaith, Turin, and Nienor halfway through their transformation to real humans again. In which case, yes it is far too much too ask. Far, far too much and I am now going to have nightmares of the reanimated corpse of Turin chasing me.

[Galadriel55]

Urwen, really, what do you expect? Morgoth is... Morgoth! He's not some Gandalf or Faramir or one of those noble characters who do not want to ruin lives, even the ones of foes. He's MORGOTH, and he will NOT leave in peace the family of one who had angered him. Just because he's Morgoth.

And personally, I don't want the curse to be removed until Morgoth finally dies in Dagor Dagorath - it makes the story so much more... beautiful. Now please don't fly off the handle with me for saying that!

PS: when I said "what would happen if there was no curse", I meant what would happen to Morgoth. He wouldn't like the consequences!

[Urwen]

You...you actually like MORGOTH more than TURIN, NIENOR and LALAITH?

What kind of evil fan are you?

And personally, I don't want the curse to be removed until Morgoth finally dies in Dagor Dagorath - it makes the story so much more... beautiful.

Why? You want us dead for eternity. And don't forget, we will come back to life eventually. Turin will slay Morgoth and as his reward, we will return to life. Our parents would too and then we could go and be happy family we once were...

Also...

Morgoth: What for?

Urwen: I'll give you what for! You think you could go and slain my siblings and get away with it? Well, O mighty Vala, think again! *smothers Morgoth and turns* Oh, and that goes for you too. He might have slain my siblings, but YOU are responsible for my death. What should I do? I know, I'll leave you to them! *points to angry mob of Teleri elves in the distance, then climbs up onto the rock and watches as Teleri hack Maedhros to pieces*

[LadyBrooke]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Urwen: I'll give you what for! You think you could go and slain my siblings and get away with it? Well, O mighty Vala, think again! *smothers Morgoth and turns* Oh, and that goes for you too. He might have slain my siblings, but YOU are responsible for my death. What should I do? I know, I'll leave you to them! *points to angry mob of Teleri elves in the distance, then climbs up onto the rock and watches as Teleri hack Maedhros to pieces*

But Urwen died of the Evil Breath plague that came from Angband. How in the world is that Maedhros's fault?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by LadyBrooke

But Urwen died of the Evil Breath plague that came from Angband. How in the world is that Maedhros's fault?

The plague came from Angband because Maedhros revealed his forces too early, when the "good guys" were still unprepared. But it's not Maedhros' fault - how would he know what the consequenses would be?! He didn't come all the way to Dor Lomin and chopped Lalaith's head off! More discussed here.

[Urwen]

You think so? Well, several big bosses warned him not to haste. They, in their wisdom, predicted her death, among other things. But he, hothead he was, refused to listen to wisdom. Thus, death of hers will haunt him along with other stains on his soul.

But if he had taken the time to prepare his attack better, she would have lived. And there would be one less stain on his soul.

He should have thought of possible consequences. Besides, had Lalaith lived, Turin wouldn't have married Nienor. Therefore, the incest is Maedhros' fault, not Lalaith's.

Also, I didn't mean just 'avenge them' for that's not enough for my soul seeking justice for those three. No, I meant 'bring them back to life'.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Also, I didn't mean just 'avenge them' for that's not enough for my soul seeking justice for those three. No, I meant 'bring them back to life'.

So you want to return humans from the dead to give these five people a chance to experience a happy life? I think it's quite possible, after the Dagor Dagorath. But not before. It just wouldn't work any other way. Don't ask me why, It just...is.

[LadyBrooke]

Originally Posted by Urwen

You think so? Well, several big bosses warned him not to haste. They, in their wisdom, predicted her death, among other things. But he, hothead he was, refused to listen to wisdom. Thus, death of hers will haunt him along with other stains on his soul.

But if he had taken the time to prepare his attack better, she would have lived. And there would be one less stain on his soul.

He should have thought of possible consequences. Besides, had Lalaith lived, Turin wouldn't have married Nienor. Therefore, the incest is Maedhros' fault, not Lalaith's.

You know I always forget that it was released because he attacked so soon.

So because Maedhros didn't know to the last little detail the consequences of attacking when he did, it's his fault to you. I think that expecting him to know something that not knowing the exact course the future takes just means that he's not Eru Besides I could just as easily argue that if Morgoth hadn't of killed Finwe and took the silmarils in the first place, Maedhros wouldn't have been in Middle-Earth in the first place and therefore it is still Morgoth's fault.

I don't think we will ever agree Urwen. I like Feanor, Maedhros, Maglor, and Celeborn the best. I could care less about Lalaith, Turin, or Nienor.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

You...you actually like MORGOTH more than TURIN, NIENOR and LALAITH?

Did I ever say so?
I just said that the curse thingy was a smart move on his side (which does NOT mean that I'm his fan), but the curse ultimately lead him to his end.

Originally Posted by Urwen

What kind of evil fan are you?

I'm a very bad EVIL fan, because I'm a good GOOD one.
And when I say "beautiful", I don't mean "happy". But don't you think COH is beautiful the way it is? Would it be the powerful story that we know without the sorrow in it?

Originally Posted by Urwen

Why? You want us dead for eternity. And don't forget, we will come back to life eventually. Turin will slay Morgoth and as his reward, we will return to life. Our parents would too and then we could go and be happy family we once were...

I believe so too - Turin should "strike the final blow", and avenge for his family.