WW LXXXVII - The Valley Forge

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Pitch

Good thinking there - provided that the KD would be willing to sacrifice his personal winning condition for the sake of a village victory.

What do you mean, "sacrifice his personal winning condition"? All I see in the rules is this-

Originally Posted by Rules

The King's Dwarf has succeeded in his mission when all of the Forge members are dead.

So if he fingers the forge members then gets himself killed, and then we lynch the baddies, he wins.

The rules don't say he has to live to achieve victory. It merely says he wins if the baddies die. So if he hands us the knowledge to kill the baddies, it doesn't matter if he lives or dies. It isn't truly a sacrifice on his part, it's an intelligent strategic move. The KD has no reason not to be on board with this so far as I can tell.

(No doubt the Forge members in their conversations at night have tried or will try to convince the KD that he has some sort of reason to play nice, or worry about dying, etc. in order to fool him into giving up his power. Hopefully he sees through their mind games.)

Originally Posted by Wilwa

But we need to kill the KD in order to win, right? So really everyone wants him dead, but the baddies want him dead ASAP, while we'd maybe like to keep him around a bit longer so he can help out the watchdwarf.

Nope. It would be preferable to lynch the KD on Day 1. Then when we see his identity, we'll look back at his posts and see he suspects persons X, Y, and Z, and then we lynch them, knowing that they are the Forge members.

And like I said, it doesn't matter if the KD goes after the Forge hardcore during the day, because they'll be too terrified to off him at night, as it would reveal their own identity.

Can anyone see anything wrong with this?

[the phantom]

Quick note to the KD- if you're on board with the plan, don't suspect the Forge members too early in the day before anyone else is showing any suspicions, as that would be too obvious- particularly if you strongly suspect exactly three people too early on, as that would possibly qualify under Foley's rules as a "reveal", thus sabotaging the game.

I want to lynch you, but I don't want to ruin things by getting you modfired.

[Bom Tombadillo]

I'm back!

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Naughty boy! Reveals are forbidden, remember? Or are you trying to get the Forgers modfired? If so, nice attempt, but I don't think it'll be that easy.

Er, yes, that's . . . exactly what I was doing . . .

[Boromir88]

I forgot phantom joined the crew, but alas he had to make sure we all remembered within the first 10 seconds.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Boro

I forgot phantom joined the crew

Whatever.

You know good and well you squealed and wet yourself with excitement when you saw my name on Foley's list.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Whatever.

You know good and well you squealed and wet yourself with excitement when you saw my name on Foley's list.

I'm afraid among other males only Jon Stewart could get that reaction from me. There was a time when I appreciated the brazen ego with the brilliant intellect. I didn't think it possible your ego could get any bigger, but that's what blind hero-worship does.

The irrational side of me wants nothing more than to see you lynched, but the utiltarian in me says you're so remarkably useful it would be foolish to waste a dwarf of your talents.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Boro

I'm afraid among other males only Jon Stewart could get that reaction from me.

But what about..... SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHH!!!!

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by the phantom

But what about..... SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUHHHHH!!!!

hehe, ok you're right about that too. I fell in love last pre-season when he tossed a QB around like a rag doll, and then right out of the gates this year he nearly ripped the head off of another one.

Oh wait, this is werewolf. Ok, werewolf we're playing, lets try to lynch an evil dwarf by sheer random luck today. Is all luck, random?

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by tp

The rules don't say he has to live to achieve victory. It merely says he wins if the baddies die.

Hmm, interesting. The N1 narration says

Originally Posted by Folwren

These they are that I must bring down, or go down in my attempt.

I read that as an exclusive or, but it could actually be inclusive, so the KD might be allowed to share a village victory even if dead, more or less like a cobbler earning bragging rights by sacrificing themselves to help the wolves win. Revisiting the rules, it looks like you're probably right.

Originally Posted by Boro

I'm afraid among other males only Jon Stewart could get that reaction from me.

As long as it's not Jon Snow...

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

As long as it's not Jon Snow...

The veteran newscaster and one time vice-chancellor or one of my alma maters? Rather random choice and personally I would prefer his rather dashing young cousin Dan but each to their own.....

Hmm Eruhen, I don't think we have met but you amuse me. You might be a keeper.... Galadriel you know me too well..... I suppose I ought to go to bed instead of listening to some woman fretting about motherhood. Don't know why she is bothering she appears to have called her daughter Cocoa which is pretty much total fail from get go..... presumably any future siblings will be Horlicks and Ovaltine... rambling now but I needed to share the lunacy...

[Bom Tombadillo]

"Alas," you say? A wolf desperately trying to kill the second-deadliest member of the village day 1? Not unlikely, I think.

EDIT; X'd with the phantom.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Bom

"Alas," you say? A wolf desperately trying to kill the second-deadliest member of the village day 1?

I was about to take offense at this, but then I remembered that under this setup the KD is technically more deadly than Phantom.

Ugh, it kills me to admit that.

[Galadriel55]

This looks like the loudest beginning of Day One ever.

Originally Posted by the phantom

What do you mean, "sacrifice his personal winning condition"?

Well, you can't win if you're dead. The way I understood it is that the KD wins if he's alive and all the Forge members are dead. If he dies during the game, but the Forgers are also eliminated, then he doesn't lose. But doesn't win either.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

The irrational side of me wants nothing more than to see you lynched, but the utiltarian in me says you're so remarkably useful it would be foolish to waste a dwarf of your talents.

THIS. If we only knew which side those talents are on...

Bom, I think I'm used to your weird joke-posting ways, but that "wolves - reveal!" was just plain silly.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Can anyone see anything wrong with this?

Nothing really. Except -

We are just as likely to lynch the wrong person. You might as well call it a reveal if we all agree that everyone except for the KD should do something/say something/ etc. If the KD realy stands out by acting suspicious on purpose, it amounts to the same thing. It's like, "ok, KD, we all step back and you make yourself look like a wolf, and then we know who you are". It's the revealing-without-actually-revealing scenario.

So we would have to find the KD based on "trying to look ordinary like everyone else" behaviour. And that brings us back to the classical WW game plan. We're just as likely to lynch a a notable ordo as the KD. Or get the Watchdwarf or sweetheart. Or fenris a wolf.

I'm not really sure if what I just said makes sense. It probably doesn't. I don't even remember what was my point when I started writing this. But anyways, I have nothing against that plan, except that maybe we should give equal attention to the wolves as the KD instead of focusing only on the latter.

Edit: xed with Eruhen, Pitch, and tp

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Until someone convinces me otherwise I'm trying to kill the KD today actually. But as you said, any effort will require some luck.

A great deal of luck. Singling out someone as potentially evil because they're making allegations or whatnot, is basically what happens all the time, and gets innocents lynched.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

You might as well call it a reveal if we all agree that everyone except for the KD should do something/say something/ etc. If the KD realy stands out by acting suspicious on purpose, it amounts to the same thing. It's like, "ok, KD, we all step back and you make yourself look like a wolf, and then we know who you are". It's the revealing-without-actually-revealing scenario.

I think that sort of thing might be frowned upon by the moddess, judging from things she's said in the Admin Thread (*cough* Sally *cough*)

x/d with Pitch, tp, and Eruhen.