WW LXXXVII - The Valley Forge

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Boro

The thing I don't get tp is if you aren't the KD, as you say, how are you hoping to provide cover to the KD from the Forge?

I never said we could give him cover from the Forge- what we can give him is cover from modfire (by a couple of us maintaining the same suspects thus not making it clear immediately which person is obviously the KD thus earning modfire).

Anyway, gotta run. I'm driving several hundred miles today. Hopefully I'll get a chance to vote before I leave in half an hour or so.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I never said we could give him cover from the Forge- what we can give him is cover from modfire (by a couple of us maintaining the same suspects thus not making it clear immediately which person is obviously the KD thus earning modfire).

Well, I assumed that's what you meant– but, look, you've basically said it yourself now, tp: you know the rules were intended to prevent exactly this kind of thing. And I signed up to play Werewolf, not "find-the-loophole".

...I see we have, as usual, managed to spend the Day so far talking about phantom and his schemes. Perhaps we could start, oh I don't know, looking for wolves? Just a wild notion that suddenly occurred to me.

[Mithalwen]

It is a wild scheme, butit might just work!!! To be fair TP has been doing most of the talking 25% of all posts... so it will be lots of him.. I suppose it will go crazy around the deadline again... I shoudl away for a bit .... but I won't be too long

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Perhaps we could start, oh I don't know, looking for wolves?

But there are no wolves- just dwarves.

Anyway.... I have to go now, and I doubt I'll be back today, i.e. this is a golden opportunity for Phantom-haters to lynch me. You can attack me for being annoying (true) and wasting the day (not entirely fair, but believable), or if you're particularly nasty you can try and convince people that I am in fact the KD and have been inviting people to kill me all along (which is entirely false, but if you're very clever and devious you may be able to pull it off).

Anyway, I shall vote for Pitch, Eruhen, or Gal55.

*flips coin*

Heads, so... Crap, this coin isn't three sided. So umm....

You must be lynched-

++Pitch

(That was just for you, Sally. You may have to explain the joke to the uncultured masses. )

[Mithalwen]

We don't hate you necessarily dear..... maybe just getting wise..

[satansaloser2005]

We have to lynch....Pitch?

That's my boy.

Today's going to be mad busy, so I'll only say that I don't like Phantom's plan (I'd like to offer my own opinion on the KD later on if I have the chance) and I think some of the things Galadriel's said could easily be forging, but I'd need to look closer before I made any decisions.

I'll be back later, likely to vote.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by tp

Anyway.... I have to go now, and I doubt I'll be back today, i.e. this is a golden opportunity for Phantom-haters to lynch me. You can attack me for being annoying (true) and wasting the day (not entirely fair, but believable), or if you're particularly nasty you can try and convince people that I am in fact the KD and have been inviting people to kill me all along (which is entirely false, but if you're very clever and devious you may be able to pull it off).

Ah, reverse psychology! Clearly, this is exactly what he wants!

[Rikae]

Wow, I actually like phantom's plan for once. He's losing his edge.

Nah, really, if there are loopholes we should exploit them - that's part of the game. I kind of doubt the KD feels/will feel likewise, but it's interesting to see the reactions: Eruhen's claim that it's no different from an ordinary day one is absurd and has a whiff of desperation about it, and I don't know what McCobbler is doing (but I know for a fact he's not the KD!)

I'm going to go refresh my memory of the rules and roles...


EDIT: Please ignore the cubbies-blah-blah stuff, I don't know where it came from and I can't get rid of it!
img, #cubbies-overlay{ -moz-transition-property: margin, box-shadow, z-index; -moz-transition-duration: 0.1s; -webkit-transition-property: margin, box-shadow, z-index; -webkit-transition-duration: 0.1s; } .cubbies-selected{ z-index: 9999; box-shadow: 3px 3px 8px -1px blue !important; cursor: pointer !important; margin: -3px 3px 3px -3px; } .cubbies-selected:active{ box-shadow: 2px 2px 5px -1px darkblue !important; margin: -1px 1px 1px -1px; } #cubbies-overlay{ position: fixed; z-index: 9999; bottom: 30px; left: 30px; box-shadow: 0 2px 3px rgba(0,0,0,0.8); border: none; } #cubbies-overlay:hover{ box-shadow: 0 2px 3px rgb(0,0,0); }

[Rikae]

Okay, no cobbler (but he'll always be McCobbler to me).

This seems to be a flaw in the plan, though:
"This player will appear to be one of the members of the Valley Forge."

Does this mean the KD isn't revealed on his death?
img, #cubbies-overlay{ -moz-transition-property: margin, box-shadow, z-index; -moz-transition-duration: 0.1s; -webkit-transition-property: margin, box-shadow, z-index; -webkit-transition-duration: 0.1s; } .cubbies-selected{ z-index: 9999; box-shadow: 3px 3px 8px -1px blue !important; cursor: pointer !important; margin: -3px 3px 3px -3px; } .cubbies-selected:active{ box-shadow: 2px 2px 5px -1px darkblue !important; margin: -1px 1px 1px -1px; } #cubbies-overlay{ position: fixed; z-index: 9999; bottom: 30px; left: 30px; box-shadow: 0 2px 3px rgba(0,0,0,0.8); border: none; } #cubbies-overlay:hover{ box-shadow: 0 2px 3px rgb(0,0,0); }

[wilwarin538]

Okee, quote from the admin thread:

Members of the Valley Forge: Their purpose is to kill the King’s Dwarf and get the number of villagers down to their own number. During the night phases, they will PM amongst themselves and before the Night deadline, they will send the moderator the name of their kill.

The members of the Forge can only kill the King’s Dwarf at night if there are two or more of them left to do so. Once the game comes down to one Forge member left and the King’s Dwarf is still alive, that final Forge member cannot kill him.

Alrighty. So by the sounds of it the Forge can't win until the KD is dead (am I understanding this correctly?), and if there is only 1 Forge member left they cannot kill the KD at Night. So by lynching the KD during the day, would we not be helping the Forge? I mean they don't want to kill him at Night, that could draw attention to themselves, so they would want us to kill him for them.

Also, the KD is helpful to the Watchdwarf, and like G55 said, the KD, SH and WD know something we don't know, for all we know it could be something super useful to the village that requires all 3 of them to be alive. The only time I condone killing someone on our side is for the Hunter, any other person on the good side shouldn't be killed on purpose, especially when they have inside info like this, can help the ranger, and need to die for the baddies to win. So basically I don't agree with Phantom's plan.

And the admin thread says there are 4 Forge members, I'm assuming that means KD + 3 baddies, and NOT KD + 4 baddies?

DL is in about 5 hours and 15 minutes, right? I'll need to vote within the next 3 hours, because of work.

x'ed with Nerwen and Rikaex2

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Alrighty. So by the sounds of it the Forge can't win until the KD is dead (am I understanding this correctly?), and if there is only 1 Forge member left they cannot kill the KD at Night. So by lynching the KD during the day, would we not be helping the Forge? I mean they don't want to kill him at Night, that could draw attention to themselves, so they would want us to kill him for them.

That's a good point. There's a loophole in the loophole plan. It could just work out perfectly, with us lynching the KD now and him giving us the names of the Forgers, but what if he doesn't give us the names, for whatever reason? Or we misinterpret his clues? Then the Forgers have nothing to fear from inside. And then, we might as well be lynching ordos Day by Day looking for the KD instead of eliminating the Forge.

Edit: xed with Nerwen. Yeah, my first time playing with him. Though I kept half an eye on Sally's game where he also tried to get the village to follow some plan.

[Inziladun]

This could be interesting.

Originally Posted by McCaber

Well, should we each give a list of three people we randomly suspect?

In which case I'll go with Rikae, Glirdy, and Pitchwife.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Anyway, I shall vote for Pitch, Eruhen, or Gal55.

*flips coin*

Heads, so... Crap, this coin isn't three sided. So umm....

You must be lynched-

++Pitch

So tp happened to vote for someone suspected (for no reason) by Cabbie. What to make of that?

x/d with Pitch

[Bom Tombadillo]

I suspect you know exactly what to make of it, and don't want to state it too openly. Why? Who knows? But I shall be watching you as well as phantom.

EDIT: X'd with Boro.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

I suspect you know exactly what to make of it, and don't want to state it too openly. Why? Who knows? But I shall be watching you as well as phantom.

I may have an idea, but do I know? I do not. I don't see how anyone but phantom could "know" what he's up to.

[Galadriel55]

Interesting find, Zil. But it could just be a coincidence. Like, if tp makes my head hurt and your head hurt, and we both vote him for that reason - does that make us wolves?

[Eruhen]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I may have an idea, but do I know? I do not. I don't see how anyone but phantom could "know" what he's up to.

Sometimes, I don't think even he knows...

In all seriousness, though, I'm really starting to think phantom's plan isn't all that and a bag of crisps, mainly because of something Wilwa managed to put into words but had been percolating inside my skull:

So by the sounds of it the Forge can't win until the KD is dead (am I understanding this correctly?), and if there is only 1 Forge member left they cannot kill the KD at Night. So by lynching the KD during the day, would we not be helping the Forge? I mean they don't want to kill him at Night, that could draw attention to themselves, so they would want us to kill him for them.

Plus, there's the definite downside of getting the KD before he has a chance to hint to anyone who he thinks the Forgers might be going after.

Alsø alsø wik, the longer the KD has to give hints to the NWD, the better idea the NWD has of who's in the Forge and who isn't. The Forgers obviously aren't going to attack their own, so whatever names the KD gives to the NWD are known innocents. So, between the two of them, the KD and NWD work as a pseudo-Seer. Benefit to keeping both of them around as long as possible.

Edit: x-ed with G55

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

I suspect you know exactly what to make of it, and don't want to state it too openly. Why? Who knows? But I shall be watching you as well as phantom.

EDIT: X'd with Boro.

This sounds like the same might actually go for you. Take care not to paint tp too black, or you might get some soot on your own nose. If you haven't already, that is.

Other thing I find interesting is how G55 seems all fine and dandy with tp's plan but grasps for every argument that can be used against it. Very nicely done. You'll do very well at the smithy. (Yeah, I know I've been rather wishy-washy about it myself. So lynch me.)

Eruhen has just made a very good point which has moved him(?) from Iron to Mithril on my personal colour scale. As for the rest:

White-hot
None, at this point

Mithril
sally
wilwa
tp
McCaber

Iron
Boro
Zil
Finduilas
Mith

Cloudy Glass (i.e. nothing to see)
Glirdan

Slate
Nerwen

Box-Shadow Darkblue !Important
Rikae

And to get things rolling,
++Bom

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Eruhen has just made a very good point which has moved him(?) from Iron to Mithril on my personal colour scale. As for the rest:

Agreed about Eruhen's point.

Edit: crossed with Finduilas. Highlight your vote...[ HIGHLIGHT] [ /HIGHLIGHT] (without the spaces)