WW LXXXVII - The Valley Forge

[Boromir88]

Ok, not going to reveal the KD if he dies...hmm, would this mean the other forgers won't know whether their lynched member was the KD or not too?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Ok, not going to reveal the KD if he dies...hmm, would this mean the other forgers won't know whether their lynched member was the KD or not too?

I'd guess not.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I'd guess not.

Me neither - which is of course good for us, as it'll increase mistrust and paranoia among the Forgers, hampering their ability to work as a pack. (Unless the KD somehow blunders and gives himself away to the others - but in this case he won't have much to lose afterwards.)

Wouldn't it be gorgeous if we could just help the Forgers lynch each other for a change? Too nice to come true, I'm afraid.

Anyway. Got to do some grocery shopping now, but I'll be back in a few hours for the rest of the Day. See ya.

[Finduilas]

Folwren said she would change the narration to not be from his point of view, so I'm thinking that it will be tolerably obvious to careful readers as to whether he dies. Though I kind of like the idea of the Forgers not knowing.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Finduilas

Folwren said she would change the narration to not be from his point of view, so I'm thinking that it will be tolerably obvious to careful readers as to whether he dies. Though I kind of like the idea of the Forgers not knowing.

Not so... she said:

Originally Posted by moddess

Okay, yeah, I've decided to not reveal when the KD is killed. Which means my narrations will change a little bit, withdrawing from his point of view hence forward."

So Bom was not the KD, but none of the narrations will be from the KD's perspective from now on, and we (and the forge members) won't know if he dies.
Not caught up, still reading...
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[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Sally

We lynch an ordo. We know we've lynched an ordo.
We lynch a gifted. We know we've lynched a gifted.
We lynch one of the regular Forge members. We know we've lynched a Forge member.
We lynch the KD. We know we've lynched a Forge member.

This is correct. Unless the Sweetheart dies before she finds the KD, then she's just an Ordo still, pretty much.

There are four members of the Forge plus the KD.

And Finduilas is a 'she'.

-- Folwren

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Folwren

This is correct. Unless the Sweetheart dies before she finds the KD, then she's just an Ordo still, pretty much.

There are four members of the Forge plus the KD.

And Finduilas is a 'she'.

-- Folwren

Ohhhh. Silly me. I thought there were only four total. It really has been a long week.

Also, whoops. Sorry, Finduilas.

[Finduilas]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Also, whoops. Sorry, Finduilas.

Not a problem at all. I'll admit I didn't even catch the slip-up until Folwren mentioned it.

Originally Posted by Satansaloser2005

So you voted Dun based on lack of trust, rather than suspicion? Interesting.

Yes, I voted for Zil (Dun, Inziladun, whatever) on lack of trust as opposed to suspicion. At the time, I had no major suspicions, and therefore didn't want to help in killing anyone.

Originally Posted by Satansaloser2005

I have a problem with your logic here. If "careful readers" will notice, it's likely the Forge would be able to figure it out as well. After all, we weren't aligned based upon our intelligence. It just seems like a strange statement to me.

My point with the careful readers was that, even though Folwren wont necessarily state that the KD has died, anyone, if they pay attention will be able to tell. However, I saw from Rikea's post that others read it as Foley planning on changing her narration as of now, instead of after he died. Which, if so, takes out the possibility of what I said of careful readers. I wasn't making a judgement on anyone's intelligence...

Originally Posted by Satansaloser2005

Why? Why do you trust Eruhen now? At the point at which Eruhen voted for Bom, yes, it tied him up with Phantom, but Phantom (or someone else) easily could have been lynched. And if we go with Phantom's idea of a more nefarious and mistrusting Forge, Eruhen could have been trying to lynch Bom and still be guilty.

My trust for Eruhen began at this post:

Originally Posted by Eruhen

Plus, there's the definite downside of getting the KD before he has a chance to hint to anyone who he thinks the Forgers might be going after.

Alsø alsø wik, the longer the KD has to give hints to the NWD, the better idea the NWD has of who's in the Forge and who isn't. The Forgers obviously aren't going to attack their own, so whatever names the KD gives to the NWD are known innocents. So, between the two of them, the KD and NWD work as a pseudo-Seer. Benefit to keeping both of them around as long as possible.

It seemed to me that a Forge member would not have pointed out the usefulness of the KD/NWD connection.

[Nerwen]

So I need to vote soon, just in case my connection goes down again, or I can't otherwise get back online before DL. This will be basically a placeholder, but still for somebody I have some suspicions against– which will probably be G55 (reasons already stated).

The other person I'm considering, though, is McCaber, who has been coming across as quite shifty to me.

Just a moment to think...

EDIT:X'd since last post.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

So I need to vote soon, just in case my connection goes down again, or I can't otherwise get back online before DL. This will be basically a placeholder, but still for somebody I have some suspicions against– which will probably be G55 (reasons already stated).

The other person I'm considering, though, is McCaber, who has been coming across as quite shifty to me.

I'm wrestling with a similar dilemma. Today is looking to be quite busy from an RL standpoint. Trouble is, McCaber voted for G55. Who looks worse? Or does someone else outdo both in shiftiness?

McCaber is usually one of the quiet ones who is the very definition of "submarine". His immediate response to tp yesterDay in giving three "random" suspects was a bit odd. He didn't vote Day 1, so no help there.

And toDay he's latched on to G55 early, for "trying to stop a lynch of the Forge-ite Bom Tombadillo, and coming close to succeeding". Is that what she did? Hm.

x/d with G55

[Boromir88]

Nearly fully trust/would truly be surprised if they were Forgers...

Pitch
Mith

Feel trusty enough that I won't vote today...

Nerwen
Phantom

No idea...


Glirdan
Finduilas
Eruhen

Makes me skeptical...

sally
G55
McCaber
Inzil
Rikae

Could have put Rikae as creepy, but she always does, so it's no more creepy than normal. But, I shall be looking at the skeptical list and possibly get to the no ideas.

[Finduilas]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

No idea...


Glirdan
Finduilas
Eruhen

Personally, Eruhen has made it to my "trust enough to not vote for today" list. Other than that, and where you have placed Inzil, I seem to agree mostly with your placing of people. Which makes me put you on the "trust enough to not vote for today" list.

xed with Sally and Nerwen

[the phantom]

I was doing a bit of rereading and spotted this-

Originally Posted by Finduilas

...as I lay in bed tonight thinking about evil dwarves

Ha ha ha ha!

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Finduilas

Personally, Eruhen has made it to my "trust enough to not vote for today" list. Other than that, and where you have placed Inzil, I seem to agree mostly with your placing of people. Which makes me put you on the "trust enough to not vote for today" list.

Then I'll start with Inzil because, he's giving me sketchy vibes (or if you prefer just suspicious dwarvish majiks).

His joking vote for Galadriel started it. It was obviously a joke and not an actual vote since it wasn't highlighted. Kidding/joke suspicions is all in good fun, but it just looks weird to fake a vote as late as it was in the day.

Then followed by the back-and-forth with Bom in posts #93, 95 and 96. Concluding with Inzil casting 1st vote for tp (later retracted) but G55 and Bom quickly tacked on their votes.

Day 1 you can say I had a funky feeling, but didn't say anything because I wanted to observe him a bit more.

Then today

Originally Posted by Inzil

Let's see. I'm feeling pretty good about Eruhen, since she tied Bom with tp. Boro's vote might seem the least shiny of the Bom-voters, just because it came so late. Baddies have little to lose by putting another nail in a doomed mate's coffin, and everything to gain.

Call me biased, because it's about me, but I just don't like the look of that suspicion, without it really trying to look like a suspicion. I know Inzil's argument about wolf-on-wolf votes is a normal assumption to make, and I believe Inzil said at the beginning of the day he want to find something in the Bom votes.

Granted I didn't indicate I cross-posted, but I rarely ever take the time to edit in a "x-post" unless it's a massively long one. All one has to do is look at the time stamps and see my vote crossed with Inzil's and wilwa's therefor mine coming last in that group of 3 is inconsequential. Inzil pointing out my vote of all of them, being the "last one" and thus "least shiny" looks like a cheap boot-strapping suspicion attempt. (ergo, makes me suspicious of him).

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

And toDay he's latched on to G55 early, for "trying to stop a lynch of the Forge-ite Bom Tombadillo, and coming close to succeeding". Is that what she did? Hm.

Well, no. He's voting someone who has done suspicious stuff– but the reason he gives is something that didn't actually happen like that. Again, it just seems shifty.

Okay, then–

++McCaber

This is tentative and I may end up changing it later.

EDIT:converted to vote-post; added comment

[satansaloser2005]

So let me make sure I understand this correctly....

We lynch an ordo. We know we've lynched an ordo.
We lynch a gifted. We know we've lynched a gifted.
We lynch one of the regular Forge members. We know we've lynched a Forge member.
We lynch the KD. We know we've lynched a Forge member.


Is this correct? Because if Foley suddenly decides to stop revealing roles, we would automatically know if it was the KD, so I'm assuming she'll just reveal alignment.



Anyway, off to look at people. I'm in a book shop, yay, so I should be able to catch up properly.


Also....


Spontaneous enough to kill? Pitch?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

So let me make sure I understand this correctly....

We lynch an ordo. We know we've lynched an ordo.
We lynch a gifted. We know we've lynched a gifted.
We lynch one of the regular Forge members. We know we've lynched a Forge member.
We lynch the KD. We know we've lynched a Forge member.


Is this correct? Because if Foley suddenly decides to stop revealing roles, we would automatically know if it was the KD, so I'm assuming she'll just reveal alignment.

That's right as far as I know. Anyone with a Forge mark (ie wolves and KD) will be called a Forge Member if they die. I think we'll know that it's the SH if she's lynched. If she's killed - obviously.

The fact that the KD's role is not revealed upon death makes things much more difficult for the village. It complicates things for the wolves as well, but they have the benefit of knowing something. Also, they can take information from Nightly conversations. For instance, the KD would try to influence the kill, and a wolf could detect that. But ordinary innocents won't know anything.

Edit: xed with Findy, tp, and sally