Resurrection of Haudh-En-Ndengin thread "Rivendell or Lothlorien"

[blantyr]

Originally Posted by Rumil

Elrond has close allies in the Rangers, but Celeborn's close allies are the Ents

I don't believe the Ents could be considered active allies. When Galadriel and Treebeard spoke to one another about the time of Eowyn's wedding, Treebeard spoke as if they hadn't met before, that the two forests, so close to one another, had no contact with each other.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by blantyr

I don't believe the Ents could be considered active allies. When Galadriel and Treebeard spoke to one another about the time of Eowyn's wedding, Treebeard spoke as if they hadn't met before, that the two forests, so close to one another, had no contact with each other.

Well, he also says that Elves came and talked to the trees. Lorien Elves could have come during times of peace just to visit. It's a possibility. They grew rather alien of one another by the end of the TA: each one says that the other is queer and dangerous, though really both are ancient and wise and etc... and dangerous.

[blantyr]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Well, he also says that Elves came and talked to the trees. Lorien Elves could have come during times of peace just to visit. It's a possibility. They grew rather alien of one another by the end of the TA: each one says that the other is queer and dangerous, though really both are ancient and wise and etc... and dangerous.

Oh, yes. Individuals from the two woods might well have met, but if the leaders of the two cultures have never met, describing them as 'allies' doesn't seem right.

It has always seemed odd to me that Tolkien's free peoples tend to be so isolationist, so distrustful of one another. The Rohirrum thought Ents a children's tale, and though evil of Galadriel. The Wild Men were thought of as beasts, while hobbits were a legend. Aragorn forbade men access to the Shire, and thought this a good thing, a favor to the hobbits.

I'm not saying this is wrong, but it is an odd aspect of Middle Earth. In many a political fantasy world, if a state like Fangorn or Lorien remained ignorant, isolated and alone, they might become victims of this plot or alliance or that. In Middle Earth, remaining isolated and alone, protected by great power that sleeps for millennia, is more the norm.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by blantyr

Aragorn forbade men access to the Shire, and thought this a good thing, a favor to the hobbits.

Just a note here (I couldnt resist): I think it's better to forbid men to enter the Shire's borders than to have men pour into it to google at hobbits after they appeared from the legends. There would be many curious folk. So yes, he's doing the hobbits a favour.

He's not forbidding interaction between the two "species" - he encourages it. But it should not be something enforced on all hobbits, rather something that the more adventurous hobbits choose.

Though, in general, I agree with your thoghts about isolated communities and states.

Originally Posted by Flim

Curiously, Haldir comments on halflings and their evil nature. He mentions not having heard of halflings for many years, but that these halflings (in the Fellowship) did not look evil, so persumably these are the tales he knows of concerning halflings from the past--that they are an evil race (in looks originally? or perhaps both in looks and demeanor?).

No, I don't think so. He says that they don't look evil because he knows what evil could look like, not because he thought hobbits were evil.

Is Galadriel with the white a more powerful opponent of Sauron than Elrond with the blue? Tricky but I'd imagine so, regardless of the rings as Galadriel is significantly older, had been to the Undying lands and was personal friend of Melian

Agreed, though I would add that she is so powerful (with the help of Nenya and the Elessar perhaps) that she can read Sauron's mind without opening her own. She might have learned this from Melian, who played a similar trick on Morgoth. But still, to be able to defeat a Maia as mighty as Sauron....

Elrond's power lies in a different field. As has been mentioned, he is more communicative to the Free Peoples. He is closer to them, and thus more respected - and more obeyed, I'd assume. People come to him for a word of advice (eg Boromir) but most are afraid of Lothlorien.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Elrond's power lies in a different field. As has been mentioned, he is more communicative to the Free Peoples. He is closer to them, and thus more respected - and more obeyed, I'd assume. People come to him for a word of advice (eg Boromir) but most are afraid of Lothlorien.

Elrond might have taken up the life of counselor and healer during the Lord of the Rings, but he's got about as an impressive pedigree as any other elf. Son of Earendil and Elwing, grandson of Tuor and Idril, great grandson to Turgon and Luthien and Beren. He was also Gil-Galad's herald and could have taken the claim as High King of the Noldor...just wouldn't seem like much of a point with how few Noldor remained in ME aftet the 2nd Age.

But Galadriel happens to be an elf with probably an even more impressive pedigree.