WW XCVI - The Fell Winter of 2911

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Kath

So what happens if the Cobbler gets Night-killed but has named the Seer or Ranger in their nightly pick? Does the pick still go ahead or not?

In other words, "If we screw up and kill our cobbler, will we still profit from xyr pick?"
Never mind what I said above about cobbler discussion in general, who but the wolves would need to worry about that?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I take this to mean the narration won't say anything about the cobbler's activities.

Obviously. It will be a lot of running in the dark, of course, the Ranger/Seer will know, but that won't help the "common folk" much. But then again, it really does not matter (technically) whether some kill occured because the person wasn't protected or because the Cobbler succeeded in targeting the Ranger - the person is still simply dead. In fact, it might even confuse the WWs - because it will be harder for them to determine the Ranger's identity that way, for example (i.e. they couldn't make conclusions based on who was likely to protect whom etc...)

Yes. We're all wolves (except you who are the self-confessed cobbler), and I'd just like to talk about myself.

We know you like nothing more than that.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

In other words, "If we screw up and kill our cobbler, will we still profit from xyr pick?"
Never mind what I said above about cobbler discussion in general, who but the wolves would need to worry about that?

Hm, good spot. But then again, I think even innocents can speculate on theoretical basis - after all, what else is all this cobbler-pick debate about...

Anyway, so far, many of the people are "no show" and I am afraid I won't be around when the main debate starts. But no can do. I am trying to make as much as I can out of being here now, though of course there is nothing much to work with yet.

Shasta - exactly one of the no show folks
Menel - nothing special this far, I have no intention to get rid of him for no special reason when playing with him after such a long time
Glirdan - no show yet?
G55 - a bit in the beginning, nothing striking about her
Nerwen - again, nothing there
Legate - that's me
Pitchwife - a very nice discussion-starter, interesting digging deep into the Cobbler-issues, one can of course ask whether there isn't some agenda behind it, if he was a Wolf trying to find the Cobbler, then his Kath-spot might be attempt to randomly accuse someone, but if he was a Cobbler fishing for Wolves, not sure if he would start bringing attention to people who could be potential Wolves in his eyes; anyway, interesting persona
Nogrod - I fear of seeing him posting at 5 AM, when I am no longer here...
Lommy – nothing special this far
Inzil - talkative, but hard to make out anything out of that, though I'm somewhat wary
Aganzir - a bit the same case as Pitch, one of the Cob-talkers
Sally - no show...
Kath - ha, actually, I think I am sort of forming an opinion about her - which is most unusual, because normally I have no clue about her whatsoever! She seems in any case very active and interested, in fact, she was one of the main talkers this far... there is an air of genuine interest and activity about her, I'd say.

In any case, those are very preliminary, I mean, it's early Day 1. In general I don't have anybody I would find clearly suspicious or anything, so I hope there will be more overnight (my night) and also that I'll manage to process it before I have to vote...

[Nogrod]

J'accuse the authorities over the unhappy case of Mr. Dreyfus... oops, wrong time and place. J'accuse the football-games then... in this foul winter? Oops, again... I think I'm not perfectly balanced right now. You know us old guys...

But into reading now, erm... reminiscing about what has been said.

[Pitchwife]

Thoughts on those who have posted so far:

Gal55 - content-free first post, can be anything.

Zil - mostly commenting, reasonable points, basically his standard inscrutable self; defends Menel against me (which I actually like).

Lommy - sick, therefore excused.

Menel - has been a bit Captain Obvious and theoretical up to now, but his elaboration on his first post is sound enough, and his reaction to me doesn't strike me as particularly wolvish. Anyway, like Legate said, I'd need a good reason to vote him D1 in his first game in ages.

Legate - posting behaviour similar to Zil, reasonable stuff, wishy-washy as far as suspicions go (which is nothing new), except he seems to feel good about Kath.

Kath - "interested and active", yes, and I find no fault in wanting to discuss the new and improved(TM) cobbler, but the piece from her last post I paraphrased seems to me to be thinking too much from the perspective of the wolves.

Agan - don't trust her farther than I can throw her on general principle, but there's nothing especially alerting yet, except maybe the bit about me being the cobbler, where I'm not sure whether she was teasing me, suspecting me or hinting at me (probably not the latter, too obvious).

- The above was written before everybody started talking, especially before Gal accused Menel, which is exactly the sort of latching-on I hoped to provoke by poking at him (and yes, Menel, I think we've all got what your point was by now). And look, Nog is doing it too, casting some doubt but not actually committing to anything. I don't approve. As for his point about Zil, I'll need that explained to me, because I don't really get what he's trying to say.

Btw, I have to vote within the next half hour or so, DL being in the middle of my workday. I could imagine voting Kath for that wolf-think quote, but we'll see.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

And look, Nog is doing it too, casting some doubt but not actually committing to anything. I don't approve.

Now where is your commitment with 40 posts on D1? Or anyone elses'?

Just asking before you decide to make the lack of committed cases reason to vote... I mean you don't have twelve votes but just one...


PS. I'm going to sleep as well pretty soon, but will still participate and vote later...

[Glirdan]

Good morning everybody....or is it afternoon? This weary thespian has been loosing track of time and days for just over a fortnight now and had not realized the sun had risen. (RL: Seriously, my days are just one giant day lately and completely forgot).

However, I am here and shall inform myself of the going ons of this heinous crime!! For I....I....Dangit...forgot my line again....

Alright, enough IC.

Here, reading, will hopefully post shortly. I too may have to vote early, or not....depends on whether or not I can keep myself awake until 8 in the morning....and seeing as I'm currently busy with a show, the likelihood of that is slim to none. But I will be able to stick around and have some chatter for the better part of the Day. Now on to some reading.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Now where is your commitment with 40 posts on D1? Or anyone elses'?

What has the number of posts got to do with it? You don't need x pages of thread to suspect somebody for a reason and stick to it. As in: I suspect you for picking up a point about Menel second hand from Gal55 who picked it up from me and using it to put pressure on him while keeping open a back door by saying it may just be his playing style. And yes, it's D1, so I may be wrong. That's life.

And yes, I'm going to stick to it.
++Nogrod

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

What has the number of posts got to do with it? You don't need x pages of thread to suspect somebody for a reason and stick to it.

Obviously. And sorry for the bad phrasing... and you Pitch know that too - that it was bad phrasing * which someone like you would not have used as a pretext to partly justify your vote... which in turn makes me suspect you as I can see only a wolf or a total noob cling into that kind of a point. How this game is!

* saying 40 posts obviously is no criteria as there have been occasions (not too many, but there have been a few games) where people have made great points, hard questions, bad answers, revealing comments, tough Q&A etc. in the first page of a WW-game. So of course the number of posts as such is no criteria, but in 9 games out of 10 (or 8, blah-blah), suffice to say "normally" the first page gives one little or no clue as to what is going on - and this game looked like just one of those games...

As in: I suspect you for picking up a point about Menel second hand from Gal55 who picked it up from me and using it to put pressure on him while keeping open a back door by saying it may just be his playing style.

Forgive me my silly question, but where do I pick a suspection by you on Menel? Aren't you now just admitting you tried out something? And if you admit you tried out something how come you think no one else ever tries out something as well? tsk-tsk.

Or should I vote you because you "made a point about Menel"? The reason behind that vote would be as good as yours...

I mean really, I took part in a discussion about one of the persons who had raised most discussion to give my two cents on it and was actually asking only for the motive for Menel to state the obvious the way he did (I'm still curious about that) and then actually went back thinking him less probably a wolf because of a) his long absence, and b) because of our history of me suspecting him so many times before because of the way he plays.

And yes, it's D1, so I may be wrong. That's life.

That sounds too much like you know already beforehand that you are "wrong"...

Now do you?


Good night (RL) and good luck...

[Nerwen]

Here's a mug of beer for each of you gentlehobbits– drink deep and drown your sorrows. Don't worry. it's on the house. (Inzil just doesn't know it yet.)

Now, I couldn't help overhearing some of the conversation, and I must say, Menel seems intent on stating the obvious– wolves will try to lynch innocents? You don't say?


'Course, he's been out of town a good long while on his travels, and has maybe forgotten how we do things here.

X'd with the Retired Barkeep.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

In other words, "If we screw up and kill our cobbler, will we still profit from xyr pick?"
Never mind what I said above about cobbler discussion in general, who but the wolves would need to worry about that?

I like your paraphrasing well enough. Which means that the way Kath initiated the cobbler talk raised my hackles a tiny bit and you gave words to my feeling.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Image the situations of the Seer being revealed, having the last dream among us and being targeted... and so on.

Not that I'd think our seer is dumb or anything, but she shouldn't forget about the cobbler before revealing if she hasn't targeted her before.

Oh yay, this is one of those villages we can't really even trust the seer because the cobbler appears as an ordo.

Speaking of her... shh... Kitanna, you still haven't corrected the typo of "for the rest of the day" in your Cobbler description

Says the one who asked if the ranger can protect two people in a row.

I'm off to bed now. I'll pop in and vote before work tomorrow, and if I'm feeling energetic, I may even stay and post for a while.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I don't know your playing style, and it might have changed anyways over your absence, and playing for the first time after a big break can be nervewracking, I guess, but you do sound a bit too concerned.

I think his playing style is nothing out of ordinary. Whether that's a good or a bad thing though, who can tell?

Why "her"? I can't wave it off as a typo, because you refer as the cobbler like that twice, and in different forms of the word!

Look at my last post and you'll see I'm also the seer.

[Aganzir]

NERWEN IS A WOLF! Lynch!

bed->

[Thinlómien]

To be honest, my brain does not work especially as my head is in the wrong fandom (ahem) and I haven't played ww in ages. *complain complain complain*

What stands out to me the most is G55's "case" against Menel. It's almost a schoolbook example of a flimsy Day1 case that gets its maker lynched because it looks wolvish but is innocent ergo I keep thinking G55 is double-bluffing by trying to look too suspicious to be a wolf.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

What stands out to me the most is G55's "case" against Menel. It's almost a schoolbook example of a flimsy Day1 case that gets its maker lynched because it looks wolvish but is innocent ergo I keep thinking G55 is double-bluffing by trying to look too suspicious to be a wolf.

Or trying the ice with Agan's use of the feminine pronoun? A helpful innocent trying to get discussion going or something else? But it should be noted she does try unlike most of us others and therefore I'd like to give her the benefit of doubt at least this point on D1.

Menel I think just suffers from a long time of not playing and thus states the obvious - but for what reason he thinks it is a good thing to say those things? To make himself look a smart player we wouldn't want to lynch? Now what ios the motivation behind someone coming into a game trying first and foremost stay alive? On the other hand I remember some games from years ago when I think I suspected him quite frequently just because of the way he played so I'm not going to take that clue at least for now any further because of our history.

Now it may be I'm also in a bit of rust, but to me Zil's point about the cobbler needing to avoid Night-kills kind of raised some alarms. I knowperfectly well (been there, done that a few times), yes, that the cobbler has a special problem of staying alive during the Nights, but I didn't "remember" it. So reading it was like, "yes, you have a point there! - wait, I know that actually"...

So maybe I'm just coming into this game more unprepared I should or then Inzil is just so spot on into the game - or then he speaks of things that are close to him this time... Hard to say, as always - and I will not make that a reason to vote him anyway, but will take it as a reason to follow him more closely to be sure.


EDIT: X'd with three last ones...

EDIT: used the expression "benefit of trust" (instead of "doubt")... which I'm not actually sure what it might mean, but probably nothing I mean anyway...

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Here's a mug of beer for each of you gentlehobbits– drink deep and drown your sorrows. Don't worry. it's on the house. (Inzil just doesn't know it yet.)

Noo! They'll drink up me profits!

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now, I couldn't help overhearing some of the conversation, and I must say, Menel seems intent on stating the obvious– wolves will try to lynch innocents? You don't say?

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

This looks a bit overly defensive/dramatic for my taste. And this:



...is the second time you're stating the obvious.

I don't know your playing style, and it might have changed anyways over your absence, and playing for the first time after a big break can be nervewracking, I guess, but you do sound a bit too concerned.

Menel has merited a comment for his words, but more than one person homing in on it at once puts one in mind of a pack of salivating beasts eyeing some raw meat.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Ok, I'm seriously hyperventilating right now. My alarm turned on when you said "her". I don't always write both genders, or a cross (like "xe"), but then people usually choose male over female. Why "her"? I can't wave it off as a typo, because you refer as the cobbler like that twice, and in different forms of the word! This makes me wonder about your role, Agan. Considering that, as you said, the seer doesn't differentiate a cobbler from an ordo, who else but the cobbler themself and the Moddess would know the correct gender of that role? What else, but the exact knowledge, could have caused this slip?

I seem to recall Agan having a habit of calling the Cobbler "she". Why? Ask the wind why it blows.

x/d with Agan and Lommy

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Zil

Menel has merited a comment for his words, but more than one person homing in on it at once puts one in mind of a pack of salivating beasts eyeing some raw meat.

I hope I'm not putting my job on the line when I suggest that my honoured employer check for x-posting next time.

[Thinlómien]

Around
Menel - for some reason whatever he ever says, I find it suspicious. For this reason, I'm reserving judgement until Day2.
G55 - typical G55 Day1 messing around. To the point that it looks like a cover for something.
Nerwen - is evil as usual. Hopefully just the behaviour not the alignment this time.
Legate - I appreciate his effort to talk. It still doesn't help me much that he talks.
Pitch - fine.
Nog - for some reason, I liked his one-liner. Maybe because I feel like saying j'accuse flu and George R.R. Martin and go to bed to read and sleep instead of playing.
Inzil - after Agan pointed out (in RL) that he's probably again playing at work, his posts haven't made me feel anything else except for amusement. We've yet to see if he's the good cop or the bad cop.
Agan - seems to be enjoying herself.
Kath - confusing role talk. Not sure if anything should be made out of it.

No-shows
Shasta
Sally
Glirdan

Me
Lommy


edit: xed with Nerwen