Arwen vs. Galadriel

[Lollipop010900]

Book wise, it's Galadriel for me! Not because she is pretty but because she is powerful and actually does something. Arwen is a bit of a sook in the book because all she does is become a mortal and make a banner. In the movies, Arwen is way prettier, but Galadriel again is way more awesome.

[Glorthelion]

Arwen, because she is descended from Luthien the fairest elf to ever live. It says somewhere in the Lord of the Rings books that Arwen was the fairest since the time of Luthien.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Glorthelion

Arwen, because she is descended from Luthien the fairest elf to ever live. It says somewhere in the Lord of the Rings books that Arwen was the fairest since the time of Luthien.

Thing is, Galadriel is also said to be the fairest. It's like the competition between Treebeard and Tom B about who is older.

[elbenprincess]

Yes, it is said that Galadriel was the "mightiest and fairest of the remaining elves" and IMHO Arwen was an elf, ntil she decided to become mortal and Gimli thought also that Galadriel was fairer and if Arwen really would look like Luthien, which she didn´t, she is said to walk in the likeness of Luthien, then there should be no doubt left who is fairer.

And beside the fairest thing, Galadriel is much more powerful and awesome and in one league with Feanor.

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by elbenprincess

Yes, it is said that Galadriel was the "mightiest and fairest of the remaining elves" and IMHO Arwen was an elf, ntil she decided to become mortal and Gimli thought also that Galadriel was fairer and if Arwen really would look like Luthien, which she didn´t, she is said to walk in the likeness of Luthien, then there should be no doubt left who is fairer.

And beside the fairest thing, Galadriel is much more powerful and awesome and in one league with Feanor.

Arwen was never an elf. She was one of the Half-elven like her father and brothers. Arwen does resemble Luthien in both looks and character. I think it can be agreed that most people considered Awen the fairest of the elves.

As for power, I agree Galadriel was more powerful than Arwen, but Arwen was a power in her own right. She does become the queen of all the remaining elves in Middle Earth.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

Arwen was never an elf. She was one of the Half-elven like her father and brothers. Arwen does resemble Luthien in both looks and character. I think it can be agreed that most people considered Awen the fairest of the elves.

She's certainly very beautiful, and those who know what they talk about say that she's Luthien reborn (not literally of course). However, she is not as potent as Luthien.

As for power, I agree Galadriel was more powerful than Arwen, but Arwen was a power in her own right. She does become the queen of all the remaining elves in Middle Earth.

Certainly. I think that Arwen has an innate power of her own, albeit a lesser one than that of Luthien and Galadriel. The reason I prefer Galadriel over Arwen is not because one is more beautiful or has greater power. I just like Galadriel's portrayal better - and better than Luthien's too, by th way. To be honest, I like Morwen Eledhwen better than either of them, and, though she's beautiful and powerful in her own right, she's no match for an elf or even half-elf. But I absolutely adore her because of her role and her story.

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

She's certainly very beautiful, and those who know what they talk about say that she's Luthien reborn (not literally of course). However, she is not as potent as Luthien.

Yes Luthien was exceptional at everything and stands alone.

Certainly. I think that Arwen has an innate power of her own, albeit a lesser one than that of Luthien and Galadriel. The reason I prefer Galadriel over Arwen is not because one is more beautiful or has greater power. I just like Galadriel's portrayal better - and better than Luthien's too, by th way. To be honest, I like Morwen Eledhwen better than either of them, and, though she's beautiful and powerful in her own right, she's no match for an elf or even half-elf. But I absolutely adore her because of her role and her story.

The thing with Arwen is that we don't know much about her. Considering she was very much like Luthien in personality, I would probably like her more than Galadriel, but not much evidence.

Galadriel, like virtually all the Lords/Ladies of the House of Finwe, seems a bit too power hungry. Even Finrod, who is another one of my favourite characters.


Oddly enough Morwen and Turin are my two favourite characters. Morwen more than Turin, because despite everything that happened to her she remained unbroken.

[elbenprincess]

Originally Posted by cellurdur

Arwen was never an elf. She was one of the Half-elven like her father and brothers. Arwen does resemble Luthien in both looks and character. I think it can be agreed that most people considered Awen the fairest of the elves.

As for power, I agree Galadriel was more powerful than Arwen, but Arwen was a power in her own right. She does become the queen of all the remaining elves in Middle Earth.

Arwen is said to walk in the "likeness of Luthien", but not that she resembles her looks. Unless I forgett something, there is no evidence that Arwen is the fairest in ME, I believe Tolkien at least meant Galadriel and her to be equally beautiful.

And for the quote I stated, that Galadriel is the"...and fairest of the remaining elves" IMHO, when Tolkien is takling generally of elves, both Elrond and Arwen are included, otherwise he would probably say "...the elves of Me and the two half elves..." But that would be silly and nitpicking, so he probably just says elves. Elrond because he chose to be counted among the Eldar and Arwen cause she lifed the life of the Eldar and had their youth and until the point she chose to become mortal she was for me an elf maiden. Genetical she is half elfen but culturally elf, until she decided to become a mortal women.

I prefer Luthien because of her wild and rebellious touch

I really don´t see her as wild and rebellios, I mean it wold have been good, but everything what she did was for Beren and not because she was freeminded and felt confined in Doriath.

And for Luthien I´m really not impressed by her even if Tolkien said that she was the greatest of the Eldar, everything what she did was for the sake of her love to beren but not for the greater good. Would Beren not have come to Doriath Luthien wold probably still dance under a tree. Don´t get me wrong her deeds are impressive, but not Luthien, would she have went to Morgoth to free some people, Finrod for example then I would be impressed or if she became active before she met Beren, that for me would be an example of a strong women but she did that cause she couldn´t life without Beren.

That´s why Galadriel for me is greater (even if Tolkien sees it differently), she chose to stay in ME (if we leave out her pride, which was one reason) for the greater good to see Sauron fall and help where she could.

Galadriel, like virtually all the Lords/Ladies of the House of Finwe, seems a bit too power hungry. Even Finrod, who is another one of my favourite characters.

I speak now only for Galadriel but did she leave Aman only for power, I see it rather as need for responsibility and there is nothing wrong with it. She wanted to have her own kindom to have something to do, to accomplish something and not just sit singing under a tree. In the UT she is disribed as being "brilliant in mind and swift in action", so like all hugely intelligent people she was looking for a challenge but she still wanted only good for her people (she never would have suppressed someone (unlike Sauron or Morgoth) and every society needs a leader. So I see nothing negative in Galadriel wanting a realm of her own, as long as she doesn´t force the elves to accept her.

but Arwen was a power in her own right. She does become the queen of all the remaining elves in Middle Earth.

Yes, but that was nothing she accieved in her own, it was because of her marriage to Aragon, if she had fought for it and went through many dangers (like Aragon) then I would be impressed but she was only lucky that Aragon loved her, otherwise we maybe would have never even heard of her.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by elbenprincess

I really don´t see her as wild and rebellios, I mean it wold have been good, but everything what she did was for Beren and not because she was freeminded and felt confined in Doriath.

Yes. Once again, I do not see her as a daredevil teenager. But compared to Arwen, who sits at home and weaves a banner, she is quite the daredevil. Also, everyone in The Sil has a bit of wild to them compared to those in LOTR. Perhaps because the whole book is more desperate, or perhaps the whole world is new so you don't have the ancient anything to balance out the new and wild.

[cellurdur]

Originally Posted by elbenprincess

Arwen is said to walk in the "likeness of Luthien", but not that she resembles her looks. Unless I forgett something, there is no evidence that Arwen is the fairest in ME, I believe Tolkien at least meant Galadriel and her to be equally beautiful.

Arwen is called the fairest woman in the world several times in the books.

Arwen is not a 're-incarnation' of Luthien (that in the view of this mythical history would be impossible, since Luthien has died like a mortal and left the world of time) but a descendant very like her in looks, character, and fate.

There can be no doubt that Arwen looked a lot like Luthien.

'"My son," said Gilraen, "your aim is high, even for the descendant of many kings. For this lady is the noblest and fairest that now walks the earth. And it is not fit that mortal should wed with the Elf-kin."


'"At last, Lady Evenstar, fairest in this world, and most beloved, my world is fading. Lo! we have gathered, and we have spent, and now the time of payment draws near."

But now I will put Queen Arwen Evenstar first, and I am ready to do battle on my own part with any who deny me.

And for the quote I stated, that Galadriel is the"...and fairest of the remaining elves" IMHO, when Tolkien is takling generally of elves, both Elrond and Arwen are included, otherwise he would probably say "...the elves of Me and the two half elves..." But that would be silly and nitpicking, so he probably just says elves. Elrond because he chose to be counted among the Eldar and Arwen cause she lifed the life of the Eldar and had their youth and until the point she chose to become mortal she was for me an elf maiden. Genetical she is half elfen but culturally elf, until she decided to become a mortal women.

It is very simple. Arwen and Elrond were immortal Half-Elven. Again Tolkien clarifies this clearly.

The Half-elven, such as Elrond and Arwen, can choose to which kind and fate they shall belong: choose once and for all. Hence the grief at the parting of Elrond and Arwen."-Letter 154


"Arwen was not an elf, but one of the half-elven who abandoned her elvish rights-Letter 345

Arwen and Elrond were never elves. Nothing more can be said about it.

I speak now only for Galadriel but did she leave Aman only for power, I see it rather as need for responsibility and there is nothing wrong with it. She wanted to have her own kindom to have something to do, to accomplish something and not just sit singing under a tree. In the UT she is disribed as being "brilliant in mind and swift in action", so like all hugely intelligent people she was looking for a challenge but she still wanted only good for her people (she never would have suppressed someone (unlike Sauron or Morgoth) and every society needs a leader. So I see nothing negative in Galadriel wanting a realm of her own, as long as she doesn´t force the elves to accept her.

Yet power was still one of the main reasons she left and was consequently banned from Aman. Her father was wise and brilliant, but had more wisdom.

What is wrong desiring a peaceful life? The Vanyar and the remaining Noldor were the ones who went and overthrew Morgoth. They were not scared, but wise enough to listen to the council of the Valar and not defy them.

Yes, but that was nothing she accieved in her own, it was because of her marriage to Aragon, if she had fought for it and went through many dangers (like Aragon) then I would be impressed but she was only lucky that Aragon loved her, otherwise we maybe would have never even heard of her.

Arwen is Queen of Elves by her right and plays a huge part in running Aragorn's kingdom. Not only that, she was keeping watch on him from Rivendell, arranged for him to receive the Elessar and made his kingly banner.

Arwen remained in Rivendell, and when Aragorn was abroad, from afar she watched over him in thought; and in hope she made for him a great and kingly standard, such as only one might display who claimed the lordship of the Númenoreans and the inheritance of Elendil.