An Unexpected Journey, or the morning after

[Zigûr]

Here in Australia we're not getting "An Unexpected Journey" until the 26th for some reason, but I would like to ask only this about the film of those who've seen it: could someone give an impression about how much Professor Tolkien's original dialogue and language is retained/maintained in the film? Obviously my expectations are low given a) the precedent and b) how much I know has been changed, made up or extrapolated from historical recount rather than direct narrative but I'm still curious. The rearrangement and omission of perfectly serviceable dialogue from the source material is something that makes the films of The Lord of the Rings incredibly difficult to watch for me. Compare in the Voice of Saruman section of the Extended Edition of The Return of the King the use (almost) of the original Professor Tolkien e.g. "when you hang from a gibbet for the sport of your own crows" vs the clashing Boyens/Walsh pastiche e.g. "Something festers in the heart of Middle-earth" (I find the inconsistency in phrase/tone at occasions like these very off-putting, when Professor Tolkien's unique style is merged with what is, to me, very stock and cliché Fantasy vocabulary).
And more specifically, does the Great Goblin ask "Who are these miserable persons?" He'd better...

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Zigûr

Here in Australia we're not getting "An Unexpected Journey" until the 26th for some reason, but I would like to ask only this about the film of those who've seen it: could someone give an impression about how much Professor Tolkien's original dialogue and language is retained/maintained in the film?
...And more specifically, does the Great Goblin ask "Who are these miserable persons?" He'd better...

I honestly can't remember if he uses this specific line, but if not then he says something very similar.

I recognized certain passages from the book, but, of course, not strictly everything was there, and there were other additions. Sometimes I too could tell that some passage is very off stylistically (like the White Council bits) but generally I think the inserted bits were ok.

Realistically, when you're stretching one book into 3 films (subsequently adding 2/3 of it) you have to insert both actions and dialogue. Generally, it wasn't too bad. Not bad at all.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

*Kiligolas. The parts where he's just being Legolas

I'm not complaining because even though archery is sexy per se, it's a hundred times sexier when it's a dark-haired dwarf doing it instead of a blond elf.

I tell you, something's gonna happen with Kili.

It had better not happen before the Battle of the Five Armies though!

And thank you for your compliments. I got laughed at by teenage girls in elven cloaks (not to mention the bus ride to the cinema), but it was naturally highly enjoyable.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

If PJ doesn't botch it, the deaths of Fili and Kili
defending Thorin could be a highlight.

PJ not going over the top? What am I saying!

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

If PJ doesn't botch it, the deaths of Fili and Kili
defending Thorin could be a highlight.

I'm so looking forward to that too! Because already in this movie one the awwww-iest moments for me was when Thorin thought one of them was dead/in danger and he was totally like "ohmygodnooo!!!!" and then he was relieved to find out he was ok, so I'm just trying to imagine how he'll react when they die defending him... and Thorin's death will really make me cry because it's so sad in the book too (and in the book you don't get the tear-fishing music in the background).

Originally Posted by G55

Thorin half-dying? And Gandalf saving him?

Oh that was silly, but after Aragorn half-dying in The Two Towers, I can't say I was surprised! Gosh, I had forgotten about Gandalf's healing powers. That was pretty ridiculous! Couldn't he have woken up himself, couldn't one of the Dwarves had some healing herbs, couldn't even, I don't know, the eagles have magically healed him or something? I mean, Gandalf's no doctor (when it comes to physical wounds) and I wish they'd kept it consistent. The only more ridiculous solution would have been having Elrong riding up the steep path to the Eyrie in a cloak that covers his face and making a surprise visit to demonstrate his healing powers accompanied by some quasi-wise words about the relations of Elves and Dwarves in the ages to come...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Oh that was silly, but after Aragorn half-dying in The Two Towers, I can't say I was surprised! Gosh, I had forgotten about Gandalf's healing powers. That was pretty ridiculous! Couldn't he have woken up himself, couldn't one of the Dwarves had some healing herbs, couldn't even, I don't know, the eagles have magically healed him or something? I mean, Gandalf's no doctor (when it comes to physical wounds) and I hope they'd kept it consistent. The only more ridiculous solution would have been having Elrong riding up the steep path to the Eyrie in a cloak that covers his face and making a surprise visit to demonstrate his healing powers accompanied by some quasi-wise words about the relations of Elves and Dwarves in the ages to come...

The "wannabe dying" definitely was silly, though I just thought of one possibility (which concerns neither of us present here, of course) - what if there are people who have seen the LotR movies and haven't read The Hobbit, and they would be under the impression (because they remember Boromir) that somebody is likely to die at the end of the first movie. So maybe the idea was to really scare the unknowing part of the audience, I can very well imagine PJ having this on his mind. It would be very naive, but maybe also too delicate idea for him.

In any case, I did not really approve of it, as I said. But as for "Gandalf healing" - everyone seems to speak about it, but I never understood it that way! To me, it seemed like that Thorin was lying there, looking dead, and now Gandalf comes and wants to try some - whatever - "healing magic" - anything, any desperate attempt to utilise the power he definitely does have, in the hope that perhaps he might save Thorin. But, as soon as he touches him, maybe only the bit or the touch "kicks in" and Thorin wakes up from what was nothing more than being unconscious. So the way I saw it was that Gandalf wants to do something (since he'd of course wish Thorin to live), but he does not really do anything. I certainly didn't see it as using any healing, less even any "resurrecting" powers (that would be utterly ridiculous).

[Lalwendë]

The Gandalf healing part must have passed over my head (I was possibly fiddling with the pesky 3D glasses). Did he touch Thorin or just do a 'Jedi force' type pass of his hand? If he just touched him I'd put it down to a gentle way of waking him from his unconsciousness. The alternative being a slap? Not really appropriate

[Hookbill the Goomba]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Gosh, I had forgotten about Gandalf's healing powers. That was pretty ridiculous! Couldn't he have woken up himself, couldn't one of the Dwarves had some healing herbs, couldn't even, I don't know, the eagles have magically healed him or something? I mean, Gandalf's no doctor (when it comes to physical wounds) and I wish they'd kept it consistent.

In terms of film-consistency it was perhaps because they'd already shown Radagast heal a hedgehog, so Gandalf MUST be able to heal a dwarf! But it looked to me like the same thing they did with Pippin after he'd looked in the Palantir - Gandalf waking him up from a stupor.

[Pomegranate]

Whoa. I expected to come here and meet a lot of criticisms and negative feedback, based on what how I see the film and how most of the people seemed to be a lot more negative about it than I was in the first place, and now I think my opinion might be the one of the most negative ones. I definitely didn’t expect that. And given that, I think I’ll need to see the movie again before I can have a proper full picture of the film, right now it’s just bits that I liked a lot and bits that I didn’t like at all, and these not forming anything proper.

I’ll start with what I didn’t like, because it’s on the top of my head.

Azog, as many have said before, was useless and confusing. For a while I assumed it might actually work, when he appeared with the wargs and I thought “Hey, that makes sense! They’ll kill him here and thus will have an appropriate ending to the first movie, a separate plot, and we don’t have to watch him anymore in the next one!” …and then this didn’t happen. So he remained a useless and confusing side-plot.

More controversially, I didn’t like Bilbo. I think. I had high expectations, having seen Martin Freeman do great in all the trailer bits, and what we had? Instead of a confused and surprised but still keeping-his-good-manners–hobbit who invites Gandalf for tea and treats the dwarves to all his food because that’s how he’s been raised, we get a rude slam-the-door and don’t-eat-my-things person who keeps turning back at every possible corner, until the sudden change-of-mindset due to which he decides to save Thorin from Azog. And I feel like most of the changes PJ has made to the story were affecting his growth-story, making him do things that were done by others in the book (like the trolls) or things that don’t happen at all in the book (like the Azog-fight in the end, or his plan to leave in the mountain cave), which made it jump forth and back unlogically. He didn’t feel likeable, or believable. Which was sad, because the original story is, after all, essentially that - Bilbo’s growth story.

And another bit that I didn’t quite agree with that seems to be generally approved was the White Council. Especially Saruman. I mean, he’s supposed to be respected and “the wise” still here, right? And then he keeps going on about how he doesn’t like the dwarves not coming to talk to him and blahblah and is completely ignored by Gandalf and Galadriel who have their secret wee talk. No respect whatsoever. Which annoys me a great deal, because I feel like it’s contrary to PJ’s own works – in LOTR, Gandalf goes to ask for his help, talking about the greatest of his order and so on, and here he seems like a complaining child who wants to stop others from playing because he wasn’t involved in the first place.

These were my main complaints. And then there were a lot of brilliant bits.

Like the beginning with Dale and Erebor. Lovely, tell-tale-like. Beautiful, and a good way of explaining the background.

The dwarves. I love the personalities given to them, I love Thorin, I think the young dwarves are adorable and enough childish to not to be only the sexy-dwarves that they were labelled as before.

The already-familiar characters when they were younger and all was well. The cheery Elrond and his awkward hug with Gandalf, especially. I could include Gollum here as well, I loved the way they portrayed him.

The songs. I’m so glad they included the songs, and as has been mentioned before, the misty mountains-song is one of the most beautiful things in all PJ films I’ve seen.

Some of the references to the LOTR trilogy. Not the one with Gandalf getting mad in Bag End, though, that was really bad.

I really liked the rock giants. They were very impressive, and pretty, and I’ve not seen transformers so that impression didn’t hit me during the movie either.

[Oddwen]

Originally Posted by Hookbill the Goomba

In terms of film-consistency it was perhaps because they'd already shown Radagast heal a hedgehog, so Gandalf MUST be able to heal a dwarf!

They're practically the same creature, right?