No Married Persons

[Aganzir]

Wasn't it also implied that Celebrían suffered sexual violence in the hands of the orcs that captured her, or am I imagining things?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Wasn't it also implied that Celebrían suffered sexual violence in the hands of the orcs that captured her, or am I imagining things?

Hm. ROTK Appendix A says she

....was seized and carried off (by Orcs). She was pursued and rescued by Elladan and Elrohir, but not before she had suffered torment and had received a poisoned wound.

That event caused her to "lose all delight in Middle-earth", so that she left for the Havens.

And in FOTR, Many Meetings, it says that Elladan and Elrohir rode often with the Rangers, "forgetting never their mother's torment in the dens of the orcs".

I wouldn't say that sexual assault is actually implied in her case, but it's not out of the question.

[Faramir Jones]

According to 'The Council of Elrond' in LotR, Elladan and Elrohir 'rode often far afield with the Rangers of the North, forgetting never their mother's torment in the dens of the orcs'. Later, in 'Appendix A', it is said that during her capture 'she had suffered torment and had received a poisoned wound'.

[Aganzir]

I remember those, but the wide speculation leads me to wonder if there are any further references in HoME. Alas, I don't have copies of the History of the Lord of the Rings.

Still, even if sexual assault was the case, it would be orcs, and thus evil lust again.

[Bêthberry]

Would Tom and Goldberry in LotR count as happy desire? Or are they too domesticated for their actions together to have any sexual implication?

There is a certain dark playfulness to their relationship in the original poems. (There's certainly sexual animosity in Tom's source (well, one of his sources), the Kalevala.)

Must go peruse my BoLT tonight, where the elves are rather different from LotR's elves and owe more to the style of, say, Rossetti's "Goblin Town".

[Aganzir]

They probably would, especially considering the Adventures of Tom Bombadil.

Ooh I love Christina Rossetti!

[Faramir Jones]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I remember those, but the wide speculation leads me to wonder if there are any further references in HoME. Alas, I don't have copies of the History of the Lord of the Rings.

Still, even if sexual assault was the case, it would be orcs, and thus evil lust again.

According to Volume XII of The History of Middle-earth, Tolkien had originally thought of killing Celebrían. In an early outline of the Third Age is this entry: 'c. 2600 Celebrían is slain by Orcs on the road over the Mountains to visit Galadriel'. (The History of Middle-earth: XII. The Peoples of Middle-earth (London: HarperCollins Publishers, 1997), p. 226)

In an early draft of 'The Tale of Years', it said that she was captured and rescued, but 'after fear and torment' was unwilling to stay in Middle-earth, and went into the West. (Ibid., pp. 235-6)

In an early draft of 'The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen', she was captured and 'tormented'. While she was rescued, 'and her hurts of body were healed, she lay under a great cloud of fear and she loved Middle-earth no longer'; so she went into the West. (Ibid., p. 264)

[Bêthberry]

Frodo was also quite smitten by Goldberry, in a way which we are told is "less lofty" than that of elves.

[Galadriel55]

And speaking of Mr. and Mrs. Bombadil, I was always a teeny bit oo-la-la-ed by the end of this passage here from Adventures of Tom Bom:

He caught her, held her fast! Water-rats went scuttering
reeds hissed, herons cried, and her heart was fluttering.
Said Tom Bombadil: ‘Here’s my pretty maiden!
You shall come home with me! The table is all laden:
yellow cream, honeycomb, white bread and butter;
roses at the window-sill and peeping round the shutter.
You shall come under Hill! Never mind your mother
in her deep weedy pool: there you’ll find no lover!’

My only reaction is: ha!

[Bêthberry]

Thinking back to the thread title, "No Married Persons", I think the question also needs to be asked, just how were folks in Middle-earth "married" if there were no churches, no religion, no priests/ministers?

We know the customs of the elves and what Tolkien says about elven marriage and sexual intercourse. But I can't think of any discussion of how hobbits set up domestic life together. What constituted "marriage" in Gondor and Numenor? Did the Rohirrim have wedding vows? Dwarves would seem to be a big blank.

Faramir uses the word 'wed' with Eowyn and we are told that Aragorn and Arwen are wed, but the precise nature of the ritual or ceremony is not shown, except that Elrond places their hands together. Faramir and Eowyn seem to have great mixing of hair.

It is simply a public declaration of their troth without formal ceremony? Is that what constitutes marriage in Middle-earth?