Should she glow?

[Galadriel55]

I have watched the movie today. Didn't mean to; we were going to see a different one but it was sold out, so we stayed for The Hobbit, and now I can properly comment on this.

I don't mind her glowing. Whether it is Kili's delirium, a manifestation of her healing, or a good measure of skin care products, it's not the thing that worries me. I definitely agree that the whole morgul wound business is quite a fake. Seriously? It's not the Nazgul that have the "death power", quote unquote, but any itsy bitsy filthy orc? Ya right. That was a pretty random shot at a pretty random dwarf, just the same as any other arrow, and not more special than their swords, axes, and etc. Conclusion: they are all armed with morgul weapons. Absolutely. Very logical. And the kingsfoil business - once again, seriously? Firstly, how do the Dwarves think of using it? And, erm, doesn't it kind of defeat it's name and purpose: KINGsfoil? It's supposed to be used by Aragorn, what are they doing, having a Dwarf think of it and a sylvan Elf use it? Trash.

[Lalaith]

I don't know about kingsfoil being exclusively used by the kings of men, despite the name. "The hands of a king are the hands of a healer" means that kings are good at healing, but it doesn't mean that only a king can heal. I'm sure that the use of kingsfoil originated with the elves, particularly given that it has a Quenyan name as well as a Sindarin one - asëa aranion. Back in the days of Beleriand, Huan and Luthien used athelas to heal Beren, after all.
But I agree that for Oin to have such in-depth knowledge of it is bizarre.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I don't know about kingsfoil being exclusively used by the kings of men, despite the name. "The hands of a king are the hands of a healer" means that kings are good at healing, but it doesn't mean that only a king can heal. I'm sure that the use of kingsfoil originated with the elves, particularly given that it has a Quenyan name as well as a Sindarin one - asëa aranion. Back in the days of Beleriand, Huan and Luthien used athelas to heal Beren, after all.
But I agree that for Oin to have such in-depth knowledge of it is bizarre.

I don't mind it being used by Elves in general. I mind that it's known to Dwarves and that it enters the story in the wrong hands. It's Aragorn's to introduce, as forgotten lore. *goes to pout in the corner*

[William Cloud Hicklin]

And there's no reason at all for Tauriel, as a Nando, to glow at all; it's dubious that Arwen would, even to Frodo in his affected state. Neither one was an Elf of Aman.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

And there's no reason at all for Tauriel, as a Nando, to glow at all; it's dubious that Arwen would, even to Frodo in his affected state. Neither one was an Elf of Aman.

I wonder if that is a reflection of the Bakshi film. Regarding that, I've heard the depiction of the animated Elves as being "three F-stops too bright".

[mhagain]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

I don't mind it being used by Elves in general. I mind that it's known to Dwarves and that it enters the story in the wrong hands. It's Aragorn's to introduce, as forgotten lore. *goes to pout in the corner*

Likewise. Well, that and the whole "Morgul Arrow" thing.

Tauriel's clearly a Tatyarin Avar anyway, so she shouldn't glow, but then neither should Arwen in the LotR movies - the whole glowing thing was just Glorfindel putting forth his power to begin with, but in the movies it seems a valid artistic license. On the other hand, the use of Athelas and the Morgul Arrow are just messing with the Lore for no good reason.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

I don't know about kingsfoil being exclusively used by the kings of men, despite the name. "The hands of a king are the hands of a healer" means that kings are good at healing, but it doesn't mean that only a king can heal. I'm sure that the use of kingsfoil originated with the elves, particularly given that it has a Quenyan name as well as a Sindarin one - asëa aranion. Back in the days of Beleriand, Huan and Luthien used athelas to heal Beren, after all.
But I agree that for Oin to have such in-depth knowledge of it is bizarre.

You're probably right. I was just connecting 'blood of Númenor' with athelas to cure Black Breath and other Morgul weapon-induced ills.

Many used it to clear the air or to cure headaches, and some think it pig fodder.

[Inziladun]

Kingsfoil probably would have gotten its name because it was used by the kings in healing, and they probably usually kept it on hand. The commoners would have had access to it as well, but any association with healing to those in Gondor (or Arnor) could naturally have also led to an association with the kings.

[mark12_30]

Just as a completely baseless aside, when I first read the trilogy in 1972 or so, I assumed from the description (hastily read) that aethelas was actually wintergreen. Wintergreen has numerous uses, I don't know of anyone who cultivates it, And any fool can make tea out of it or wash a wound with it.

Aragorn' s ministry to Faramir, Eowyn, and Merry was more about Osanwe than aethelas. He wrestled the forces of darkness for their souls, calling them back from desolate wandering and despair-- and won.

While the movie showed Gandalf doing that for Pippin, the movie didn't show Aragorn doing any of that; the movie showed Aragorn squeezing out a washcloth.

At least Tauriel broke a sweat and did some spiritual warfare.

To me this is more like having Treebeard quote Bombadil' s lines. At least it's a gesture toward what might have been.

[alatar]

Why the glow?

Science.

Peter Jackson is simply striving to make his films scientifically accurate.

These glowing elves are akin to the Moon, which shines no light of its own but merely reflects that of the Sun. More scientifically, photons emitted by the Sun bounce off (are not absorbed by) of the Moon and enter our eyes and excite electrons in our brains, and then we sit and write poetry.

Anyway, this insight dawned on me while reading FotR (emphasis mine):

Originally Posted by Three is Company

They <Gildor's folk> bore no lights, yet as they walked a shimmer, like the light of the moon above the rim of the hills before it rises, seemed to fall about their feet.

Originally Posted by Fog on the Barrow Downs

As he <Frodo> lay there, thinking and getting hold of himself, he noticed all at once that the darkness was slowly giving way: a pale greenish light was growing round him. It did not at first show him what kind of a place he was in, for the light seemed to be coming out of himself, and from the floor beside him, and had not yet reached the roof or wall.

Originally Posted by A Knife in the Dark

In one hand he <The Witch King> held a long sword, and in the other a knife; both knife and the hand that held it glowed with a pale light.

So clearly the Nazgul emit some time of particle that becomes visible when 'bounced' off of an Elf or and Elf friend. Gildor's troop glow as they (possibly) tramp back up the same path traveled by one of the Nine. The Wights were visited by the Witch King, and his Nazgully presence left a trace that reacted with Elf friend Frodo. We observe this luminescence more intensely on Weathertop.

Morgul weapons retain this radiation, and Elves and Elf friends, by seemingly refusing receipt, repel it, and hence glow. Science.

[More experiments are presently being conducted at CERN].

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Kingsfoil probably would have gotten its name because it was used by the kings in healing, and they probably usually kept it on hand. The commoners would have had access to it as well, but any association with healing to those in Gondor (or Arnor) could naturally have also led to an association with the kings.

Just as a trivial aside, "the hands of a king are the hands of a healer" has a long historical basis in both England and France. Anointed kings and queens would lay their hands on long lines of commoners in a yearly ceremony (usually at Easter). Kings like Louis IX (St. Louis) and Louis XIV, and queens like Elizabeth I and Anne, were notable monarchs who patiently applied their "God-given" gift to up to 1600 peasants and villeins at a sitting. They had an alleged ability to cure scrofula (a form of tuberculosis), a dread disease that became known as "Kings-evil".

There are no statistics on how many people were cured, but given the deplorable state of medicine in the Middle Ages and early modern times, the laying of hands was probably more efficacious than mercury-laced medicines and blood letting. At least one didn't die of the cure.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

There are no statistics on how many people were cured, but given the deplorable state of medicine in the Middle Ages and early modern times, the laying of hands was probably more efficacious than mercury-laced medicines and blood letting. At least one didn't die of the cure.

Well, blood-letting was even advocated as late as the early 20th Century for treating the 1918 flu pandemic, though that may have been as much out of desperation as of honest belief in efficacy.

As for the laying on of hands, there was probably a psychological aspect as well involved as far as the King was concerned, as having the King (as a semi-divine entity) actually touch one could feed the will to live. True healing power was obviously possessed by the kings though, at least demonstrably in Aragorn's case with his healing of unconscious persons.

[Faramir Jones]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

Just as a trivial aside, "the hands of a king are the hands of a healer" has a long historical basis in both England and France. Anointed kings and queens would lay their hands on long lines of commoners in a yearly ceremony (usually at Easter). Kings like Louis IX (St. Louis) and Louis XIV, and queens like Elizabeth I and Anne, were notable monarchs who patiently applied their "God-given" gift to up to 1600 peasants and villeins at a sitting. They had an alleged ability to cure scrofula (a form of tuberculosis), a dread disease that became known as "Kings-evil".

The last monarch to do this in the English speaking world was Queen Anne (r. 1702-14), the last time she did so being on 30th March 1712. One of the last people she touched was the writer Samuel Johnson (1709–84), who remembered something of what took place:

This year, in Lent —12, I was taken to London, to be touched for the evil by Queen Anne. My mother was at Nicholson's, the famous bookseller, in Little Britain. My mother, then with child, concealed her pregnancy, that she might not be hindered from the journey. I always retained some memory of this journey, though I was then but thirty months old. I remembered a little dark room behind the kitchen, where the jack-weight fell through a hole in the floor, into which I once slipped my leg. I seem to remember, that I played with a string and a bell, which my cousin Isaac Johnson gave me; and that there was a cat with a white collar, and a dog, called Chops, that leaped over a stick: but I know not whether I remember the thing, or the talk of it.

I remember a boy crying at the palace when I went to be touched. Being asked "on which side of the shop was the counter?" I answered, "on the left from the entrance," many years after, and spoke, not by guess, but by memory. We went in the stage-coach, and returned in the waggon, as my mother said, because my cough was violent....We were troublesome to the passengers; but to suffer such inconveniences in the stage-coach was common in those days to persons in much higher rank. I was sick; one woman fondled me, the other was disgusted. (My emphasis)

The last monarch known to have touched his people in this way was King Charles X of France (r. 1824–30), at his coronation on 29th May 1825, when he touched 121 people.