Elves and Ringwraiths

[Ivriniel]

Originally Posted by William Cloud Hicklin

Do remember that the Nine were given their rings in the Second Age, and the political geography of Middle-earth was not at all that of the Third (indeed we know little about it). The Ringwraiths first appeared about SA 2250 thirty years before Umbar was built (and they 'appeared', one supposes, quite some time after they had been given their rings).

It is interesting that the appearance of the Ringwraiths comes in the same entry as "Tar-Ancalimon takes the sceptre. Rebellion and division of the Numenoreans begins." Could one or more of the RW, when still visible "mortal" men, have been Sauronian agents in Numenor itself?

You know, there's no reason to presuppose that this is impossible. Whoever the Witchking was, he certainly had a particular hatred, it does appear, of Arnor, and also of Gondor, and was pivotal in the loss of Elendil's line in Arvedui and Earnil.

We know that there was shipping traffic between Numenor and Middle Earth. There's no necessity, I think, to presuppose that the Nazgul of Numenorean background were all Black Numenoreans from the same region. Sauron/Annatar may well have, or could have 'seduced' (that seems to be Tolkien's favourite word for this), basically, some hapless soul, disaffected by Numenorean propriety, from anywhere! Annatar was able to befuddle the Noldor, though not in Cirdan's region, where there was some suspicion about him.

The Ost-In-Edhil was around quite a few hundred years. Sauron was at it, basically, from nigh the start of SA. He also must have spent times abroad, sometimes for years, because he was able to vanish long enough from Elven circles to build the Sammath Naur, the road to the summit of Orodruin, and the Barad Dur. Those are no small feats. The Bard Dur, I'd have thought, was kinda like building a skyscraper, but with vast dungeons, in a labyrinthine complex.

I.e. plenty of time to go find a Numenorean, in Middle Earth or on a boat from Numenor, that he gifted with a Ring.

So--

[modern reality language mode]...who hated Numenorean Faithful and who were of Numenorean descent? And enough to be so fixated on taking them down? Some disaffected prince, a jacked off distant cousin to the King/Queen of Numenor, or someone who had been publicly shamed in Numenor, or Middle Earth, either on false or real grounds. Presumably, Numenor had its criminal element, swag of thieves, property damage rebellious adolescents, substance users and those bent on sexual improprieties (Eol the Dark Elf was, for example, basically, a sex offender. He imprisoned Idril Celebrindil in his creepy tree house, and of that union Maeglin was born). I assume Sauron would have appealed to grandiosity and entitlement, whilst feeding vengeful thinking (narcissism) as he manipulated the situation. As was the case with Maeglin, I also suspect Sauron seduced by promising wealth, power, social status--and as with Maeglin--sexual entitlement, as well as enhanced sorcery. He sometimes used the word 'sorcery' to hint or suggest at a magical process that was a corrupting influence. He did so for the two Blue Wizards in that little commentary that left indications of their fates and fall into evil ways, for example, and talked about a 'sorcerer' who occupied Dol Guldur before the White Council knew it was Sauron...[/modern reality language mode]