TIG CXVII: GAME Thread:

[Thinlómien]

Good morning! err... afternoon?

I can't believe I'm in the blessed/cursed situation that I have an office job that I can do remotely from home so I can ww as much as I... ahem. Now it's my lunch break anyway.

On schedules (since I started): the deadline is 2am Finnish time. Sadly that means I will have to try not to be around for it, at least on weekdays. I will happily be a bandwagon starter then

(Or to be honest, not happily! Remembering how well my intentional bandwagon starting went in the last game And now that I brought up the last game, I can hardly do worse this time. Right? I guess it's a blessing Mac isn't playing.)

I don't have much to say about the Day so far. My reading comprehension is the level of "hmmm suspicious, somebody started making lists very early" ...and turns out it was Galadriel55. *add a laughing smiley because I ran out of the limit already*

I'll be back later with actual thoughts.

[A Little Green]

Looks like this far we've got Lottie gardening, Sally talking about blood and chewing, Boro trying to lauch the "are Day 1s pointless" -debate, and Lommy wanting to start a bandwagon. Did I miss anything? Also, I see Huin is already edging towards actual on-topic conversation by questioning and mildly suspecting others, which I like. I'm currently at work so can't devote much time to WW, but I'll be back later with (hopefully) something of actual substance.

[Morsul the Dark]

Seems many of us will be at work til almost DL myself included I don’t to debate the merits of Day 1 other than to say we have a 1/4 chance of getting a wolf if we shoot blindly. I feel those are decent odds.

However the first half of the day has been basically banter which doesn’t give much in the way of information, so I am wary of bandwagons.

Huin so far is the least suspicious but that leaves 10 others (obviously myself excluded)

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Because I’m bad at in character banter but wanted to participate.

Which makes sense if you're talking about the joke vote - it's banter and could potentially spook Boro if he's a wolf. But posting a list of names - and lampshading that it adds nothing - seems more like wanting to look like you were participating.

Speaking of lists...

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I don't have much to say about the Day so far. My reading comprehension is the level of "hmmm suspicious, somebody started making lists very early" ...and turns out it was Galadriel55. *add a laughing smiley because I ran out of the limit already*

Aulë knows reading-comprehension failures can do that to us all, but it seems like a bit of a (?non-)coincidence that you picked up on something that had actually happened, but then decided it hadn't - and then posted about it anyway.

hS

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Back and reading, this seems to be slowly starting to get lively. Little to say thus far, but these comments caught my eye:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Given how many Days 1 get derailed into exactly that kind of debate, I find it a little suspicious that you're courting it.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Boro trying to lauch the "are Day 1s pointless" -debate

I am not entirely sure how Boro's comment constitutes as "launching a Day 1s are pointless-debate".

Now Hui seems to be poking around inquisitively overall, which is an activity that by itself can serve both good and evil purposes, so if this is just a part of that, whatever; but the formulation (the not-outright-accusing, yet suggestive "I find it a little suspicious", while putting words into Boro's mouth) does not seem right to me. Even stranger is that Greenie basically repeats the same, which just gives me the vibe of "quoting without checking the source", i.e. having seen Hui slightly suspect Boro and just latch on to that. That would be a very good move for a Wolf to pull.

Overall it's just weird because I don't read it as Boro "launching" any "debate" on "Day 1 pointlessness" in the first place.

Clarifications, anyone?

Anyways, I'll be on and off now as I'm at work, but I'll try to keep an eye on here. Also looking forward to see the rest of the people to appear - actually majority of players have showed up by now, which is nice. But still plenty of time until DL, so I hope we'll get some chance for more actual discussion.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

the not-outright-accusing, yet suggestive "I find it a little suspicious"

I mean, it was nine posts into the game. It's hard to imagine anything someone could say that early that would warrant a full-fledged accusation. I just thought it was suspicious - a little.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Overall it's just weird because I don't read it as Boro "launching" any "debate" on "Day 1 pointlessness" in the first place.

Clarifications, anyone?

Sure. By 'courting' I was thinking 'courting disaster' rather than 'courting the Lady Emeldir'; perhaps 'raising the spectre of' would do as a synonym? Boro wasn't starting such a debate - I agree with you that Greenie overstated that somewhat - but by bringing it up, he made it more likely that it would be a topic of conversation, and thus potentially a day-derailing debate in which the wolves could easily hide.

hS

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Looks like this far we've got Lottie gardening, Sally talking about blood and chewing, Boro trying to lauch the "are Day 1s pointless" -debate, and Lommy wanting to start a bandwagon. Did I miss anything?

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Sure. By 'courting' I was thinking 'courting disaster' rather than 'courting the Lady Emeldir'; perhaps 'raising the spectre of' would do as a synonym? Boro wasn't starting such a debate - I agree with you that Greenie overstated that somewhat - but by bringing it up, he made it more likely that it would be a topic of conversation, and thus potentially a day-derailing debate in which the wolves could easily hide.

Huh...interesting. Formendacil asked a rhetorical question about what else is there to say on Day 1. I gave a factual answer, being familiar with Formendacil, who will likely do everything in his power today to look for a reason to vote for no one today. That's not a subject of debate, it's a fact. He will make some sort of justification why he won't vote for anyone today.

But let's say I was trying to start a debate about Day 1s? What's wrong with debate? I mean in the end the only way we can hope to rid our camp of these devils is for everyone to participate and debate.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Huh...interesting. Formendacil asked a rhetorical question about what else is there to say on Day 1. I gave a factual answer, being familiar with Formendacil, who will likely do everything in his power today to look for a reason to vote for no one today. That's not a subject of debate, it's a fact. He will make some sort of justification why he won't vote for anyone today.

I was going to argue all this, but... I mean, that's kind of true. I would say to look up my behavious in the Days 1 of Games Previous, but that's bad form.

"Won't" vote for anyone is a bit of a strong way of stating of my position, but it's not the most inaccurate thing ever. I believe everyone should have to leave a record--a voting record--from Day 1; I just don't think that it means anything intelligible until there's some hindsight to give it context.

But why are we relitigating my Day 1-antipathy?! Nog isn't even here!

Honestly, I'm mostly posting this because I'll look like a deliberate lurker going to reply to my beloved Books forum threads if I say nothing here. But there really is nothing to say.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Legate

I am not entirely sure how Boro's comment constitutes as "launching a Day 1s are pointless-debate".

Now Hui seems to be poking around inquisitively overall, which is an activity that by itself can serve both good and evil purposes, so if this is just a part of that, whatever; but the formulation (the not-outright-accusing, yet suggestive "I find it a little suspicious", while putting words into Boro's mouth) does not seem right to me. Even stranger is that Greenie basically repeats the same, which just gives me the vibe of "quoting without checking the source", i.e. having seen Hui slightly suspect Boro and just latch on to that. That would be a very good move for a Wolf to pull.

Overall it's just weird because I don't read it as Boro "launching" any "debate" on "Day 1 pointlessness" in the first place.

Clarifications, anyone?

Can't speak for Huin, but for myself - in the same sentence I also mentioned Lommy wanting to start bandwagons (which is also quite a stretch) and Lottie gardening (I assume she wasn't, in fact, actually gardening). There was also as a telltale sign that I wasn't being entirely serious. That said, I do like giving the anthill a little poke early on Day 1 to see what comes out. I'm quite pleased with my success if this moves us forward from debating the relative merits of hunter-gathering vs farming!

Aside from that, I'm not entirely sure how latching onto someone else's suspicion without fact-checking would constitute a "very good move" for a wolf.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Which makes sense if you're talking about the joke vote - it's banter and could potentially spook Boro if he's a wolf. But posting a list of names - and lampshading that it adds nothing - seems more like wanting to look like you were participating.

Speaking of lists...



Aulë knows reading-comprehension failures can do that to us all, but it seems like a bit of a (?non-)coincidence that you picked up on something that had actually happened, but then decided it hadn't - and then posted about it anyway.

hS

Not going to lie the initial question seemed in good faith but latching on to the list post seems more unsavory . It was a throwaway post like “oh I was gardening, or sleeping, or whatnot.” I know I’m always an easy target as an innocent so I’m not sure if this is misguided innocent doggedness or wolffish attempt at early suspicion and attempted bandwagoning

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

Not going to lie the initial question seemed in good faith but latching on to the list post seems more unsavory.

My question was in good faith; your answer was not reassuring. Reassuring answers could include: 'I always post lists', or 'I wanted it there to copy', or 'I expected there'd be more posts before mine'. To describe my failure to accept your answer as "latching on... unsavory... wolfish... attempted bandwagoning" is, ah... I'm going to go with 'a suspicious overreaction'.

Originally Posted by Boro

But let's say I was trying to start a debate about Day 1s? What's wrong with debate?

So your 'factual answer' comment made me feel a bit better, but then this happened. What's wrong with that debate (and its relatives) is that it's been done a hundred(ish) times before; everyone knows the steps, and both 'let's discuss this' and 'we should be hunting wolves instead of discussing this' are great ways for wolves to contribute without implicating themselves at all.

Which, incidentally, is also what the "what's wrong with Day 1 Debates?" debate/question does. Which is why your asking the question keeps me suspicious of your motives.

hS

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

My question was in good faith; your answer was not reassuring. Reassuring answers could include: 'I always post lists', or 'I wanted it there to copy', or 'I expected there'd be more posts before mine'. To describe my failure to accept your answer as "latching on... unsavory... wolfish... attempted bandwagoning" is, ah... I'm going to go with 'a suspicious overreaction'.



hS

Noted. Next time I’ll Lie and it’ll be better than honesty.

[Soriman the Whide]

Oh my, terrible news, I've been busy working the land but now that i've returned I say this crime must be paid for with blood! I feel that a blind 1/4 chance of getting a wolf may be a little optimistic though.

[Thinlómien]

Hui is giving me vague bad vibes, which is giving me headache. I mean, I got bad vibes from him in the last game too, but I gave him the benefit of doubt because we hadn't played together before - and then he actually turned out to be a wolf. So the million dollar question is: is he a wolf again or is he just the next Eönwë whom I find super suspicious every time regardless of his role? And if I'm tempted to give him the benefit of doubt and waiting and seeing, am I just making the same mistake as last time? Ughhhh.

Anyway, agreeing with Legate that Hui misrepresents Boro's poking fun at Form's werewolf playing style when he frames it as starting pointless debate. I mean how else do you even get the ball rolling on Day1 if not by bullying your old friends?

Greenie seems like her solid self but when does she not.

Morsul's touchiness in #22 is the biggest individual red flag I've seen toDay so far. He implies Hui is suspecting him because his "honest answer" to Hui's question was not satisfactory, but what Hui is actually suspecting him for is being so touchy when questioned. Odd, but not necessarily out of character for an Ordul the Dark either.

...come on, could someone do something actually suspicious? Pretty please? I will give you a... vote as a present if you do.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I mean, it was nine posts into the game. It's hard to imagine anything someone could say that early that would warrant a full-fledged accusation. I just thought it was suspicious - a little.

Explanation accepted, Captain Needa - sorry, wrong fandom - but you realise that at least this part of your answer is very generic. Fair enough if it is genuine, but would serve you equally well as a Wolf. But alright, as clarification, noted.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Sure. By 'courting' I was thinking 'courting disaster' rather than 'courting the Lady Emeldir'; perhaps 'raising the spectre of' would do as a synonym? Boro wasn't starting such a debate - I agree with you that Greenie overstated that somewhat - but by bringing it up, he made it more likely that it would be a topic of conversation, and thus potentially a day-derailing debate in which the wolves could easily hide.

While I share the sentiment on Day 1 debates, I think you are bringing it back a bit obsessively.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Can't speak for Huin, but for myself - in the same sentence I also mentioned Lommy wanting to start bandwagons (which is also quite a stretch) and Lottie gardening (I assume she wasn't, in fact, actually gardening). There was also as a telltale sign that I wasn't being entirely serious. That said, I do like giving the anthill a little poke early on Day 1 to see what comes out. I'm quite pleased with my success if this moves us forward from debating the relative merits of hunter-gathering vs farming!

Aside from that, I'm not entirely sure how latching onto someone else's suspicion without fact-checking would constitute a "very good move" for a wolf.

Well, it could be as easily jumping on something that exists (a "bandwagon", if you will, or something that could easily start one).

As for smileys as telltale signs - even a Wolf with a smiley could rile up public opinion in a "joking" accusation (I'd say even better, in fact, because they could back out on the premise that it was a joke). That being said, mentioning Lommy as "wanting to start a bandwagon" is also a statement that could be interpreted as trying to "paint someone black". But at least she said that, while with the other you literally seemed like you picked up something that somebody said that Boro said.

Otherwise - I see the debate has started more broadly. Hui I see continues to ruffle some feathers. I think a Wolf would not necessarily overdo things in such a manner, however, I am not sure if I have ever seen a Huiwolf and how it would operate. Another possibility that now occurs to me is that this back-and-forth between Hui and Boro is some theatrical Wolf-on-Wolf maneuver.

Anyway I'll in the future try to form my thoughts also on others in some coherent way.

EDIT: x-ed with Lommy, Soriman and Boro

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

So your 'factual answer' comment made me feel a bit better, but then this happened. What's wrong with that debate (and its relatives) is that it's been done a hundred(ish) times before; everyone knows the steps, and both 'let's discuss this' and 'we should be hunting wolves instead of discussing this' are great ways for wolves to contribute without implicating themselves at all.

Which, incidentally, is also what the "what's wrong with Day 1 Debates?" debate/question does. Which is why your asking the question keeps me suspicious of your motives.

hS

But we would be discussing something, which I find always more useful than discussing nothing or just conceding to the pack "lay under the radar toDay, because it's Day 1 and they are more likely to just lynch someone they disagree with because they have no other evidence." So really, it's just a disagreement about Day 1 mechanics.

I am of the opinion, the more people say and respond to a topic, the better it is to figure out their motives. You disagree and see it as an opportunity for a wolf to appear actively contributing and thus helpful. That disagreement doesn't make you suspicious in my opinion. I trust you can discern the difference of someone talking just to talk and appear helpful and someone talking to prompt responses and attempt to learn something from the responses. One is a person putting up a flimsy defense only to back away and let other people go at it in a debate. The other is someone who is prepared to get right in the thick of it and defend this silly notion that Day 1s are useless.

So far...

I quite like Morsul's posts. It looks very much like "I'm going about things my way and if you got a problem with it, oh well."

Legate appears sharp and observant, which is a good sign.

Huey is going right in there with questions and accusations, so that also looks like a good sing.

The not so good signs...

Greenie giving a little summation post and going. Looks kind of evil like "here's what's happened so far, but I won't go further into what I think or feel about it." It looks like an attempt to point the day discussion towards certain people (Lottie, sally, myself and Lommy) but not giving her own opinions.

sally, in character banter, but going to have to see more from her.

Edit: Crossed with Soriman and Lommy