Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXI: Dueling Wizards Werewolf

[littlemanpoet]

Players are strictly forbidden to post to this thread until the Game Moderator (LMP) opens it up.

Introduction

On the shores of For-Luin* there lived a small folk of the Atani who called themselves the Reindeer Folk. Their lore told how they had once been wanderers over the northern plains, hunting reindeer and living off their gift of meat, skins, and antlers. The tales told of how the earth opened its mouth and roared and ate the plain land, the icy sea rushing in. The reindeer that had not been swallowed up, fled to the east and never returned.

*For-Luin is the coastland bounded on the northwest by the Sea, to the northeast by the Ice Bay of Forochel, to the southeast by Ered Luin, and to the southwest by an unnamed bay that separates that land from Forlindon.

Of the Reindeer Folk who had not been swallowed by the earth, many starved for lack of food or froze for lack of skins. All feared for lack of the antler for it had been their lucking and charm against evils. The few that survived until spring turned their eyes to the Sea and saw strange flippered dogs near the shore, barking at them from a distance. The folk saw these as an omen and said to each other, "Maybe the Sea has brought death, but from it now we must find life." Some fashioned rods and lines with hooks and bait. Others twined nets to catch game from the sea; but not the flippered dogs. Still others gleaned strange greens from the salty seas. There were folk who did not take to the sea, and so they tilled the land between the sea and the mountains, so that half of them were farmers and half fishers. Some of the boldest fishers hove out to sea and caught fish that swam farther from shore, and they gave a portion of the meat to the flippered dogs; and their numbers grew. The folk saw in these creatures their new luck and seal against evil, and called the flippered dogs by that name. They renamed themselves the Seal Folk. The seals throve and the Seal Folk throve for many lives of their folk, and their former life as plainsfolk became legend.

One day they when the Seal Folk woke up, they found a new thing. The seals were quiet and watchful, for sitting on a rock near the breakers in the bay were two tall figures looking out to sea. They were fair to behold and seemed as gods. They moved not, but looked ever to the sea. The Seal Folk spoke to them but the two uttered no word back. Awed, the Seal Folk let them be, and wondered what they were. It was not long before the seals barked again and all was as it was before, save that there were two who watched the sea for a mystery. The Seal Folk began to place portions of their catch at the feet of the Watchers, but never saw them take it up. However, each morning the catch was not where they had laid it. Even when the overbold youth watched during the night they did not see the Watchers reach down, but in the morning the catch was gone.

Years went by. The Seal Folk became used to the Watchers, and made up tales about them, that they watched the sea for the sake of the Seal Folk, ever vigilant in care of those who went out in boats to find sea-game for the Folk. Maybe it was so, but the wise among them believed that the Watchers looked to the sea for other reasons. The Seal Folk took to eating at the feet of the Watchers, for they seemed to luck the place, never failing to leave a portion of their catch behind.


Once, when a group of the Seal Folk were at meal beneath the Watchers, the Lady opened her mouth and, still looking to sea, spoke these words: "You shall have a wizard amongst you to tide you against the coming evil." She said no more, but the Man spoke these words: "Hidden from you shall be the wizard, for the evil shall come hidden amongst you." The Seal Folk were stunned at first, but then asked many questions of the Watchers; but got no answer. The Watchers did not speak again during their lifetime.

Each of the Seal Folk took their own counsel, and carefully rehearsed the Words of the Watchers, and passed them down from parent to child for many lives of their folk. Some of them went on journeys inland to learn what they could of wizards, and brought back scrolls and tomes copied by unknown hands. The Seal Folk learned to read and to write, and discovered much of the ways of the world, and of wizards. They learned that when the Sea had eaten the land, it had been the end of a Second Age of the world, and they now lived in the Third Age.

The Watchers remained seated upon their stone, looking out to sea.

Many years later, there came a dark night of deep cold shadow. Had any looked upon the Watchers, they would have seen their countenances darkened and dour. But none looked. To one in the village, carefully chosen, came a Shadow. This Shadow had watched each of the Seal Folk, and this one, who had done no deed of evil and seemed in no wise more given to evil than any other of the folk, bore a seed of malice unvoiced. To this one the Shadow came and said, "You shall my accomplice be, and power you shall have, to wield fear and rule over these folk who have never understood your greatness. Choose first for yourself three to rule over. Through these you will kill. Do this and you shall be given power beyond your dreams." This one understood: "The evil wizard am I." The evil wizard prepared by spending all the days reading carefully the tomes and scrolls in the evil wizard's possession. This did not seem odd to others of the Seal Folk, for every household possessed such books and parchments, and some were known to give themselves wholly to such study from time to time.

The Seal Folk are:

1 Diamond ~ gammer married to Nogrod & mother of eligible young maidens Lhunardawen, Azaelia, & Firefoot ~ Battledore Maker with strong forearms from battledore swinging

2 Celuien ~ wife of The Saucepan Man, daughter of mormegil ~ Healer and Cupper

3 Caranlondien ~ eligible young maiden, eldest daughter of Sleepy Ranger & Roa Aoife (big sister of Thin & Glir) ~ Sled-Team Driver

4 Roa Aoife ~ wife of Sleepy Ranger, and mother of Thinlomien ~ weaver

5 Nogrod ~ gaffer married to Diamond and father to eligible young maidens Lhunardawen, Azaelia, & Firefoot ~ retired jester who has many permanent bruises from battledores

6 Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant ~ eligible young maiden (or wife of Nilp if he plays) ~ Baker

7 Kath ~ eligible young maiden ~ minstrel

8 Lommy~ child of Sleepy Ranger and Roa Aoife, younger sister of Glirdan and Caranlondien ~ little girl who steals other children's candy

9 Lhunardawen ~ wife of Eonwe (no children) & eldest daughter of Nogrod & Diamond ~ jeweler

10 Glirdan ~ child of Sleepy Ranger and Roa Aoife, older brother of Thinlomien, younger brother of Caranlondien ~ with giant crush on Kath (occupation aplenty!)

11 Valier ~ not so eligible young maiden ~ gardener

12 Sleepy Ranger ~ married to Roa Aoife, father of Thinlomien ~ Wanderer from the days of old, now settled in the village

13 Kitanna ~ courting Eomer ~

14 Firefoot ~ tomboyish young maiden (engaged to stuffy, boring, rich jerk) & daughter of Nogrod and Diamond; younger sister of Azaelia ~ artist

15 Alcarillo ~ gaffer married to Cailín ~ old retired sea captain

16 Cailín ~ gammer married to Alcarillo ~ match maker

17 Oddwen ~ orphan child, in the care of Lalaith ~ aviary keeper (filthy, insane street urchin who steals chickens & other fowl and keeps them locked up in boxes)

18 mormegil ~ widower, father of Celuien ~ retired mariner and currently mayor overseeing honorary functions

19 Feanor ~ husband lost at sea, widowed and eligible ~ suspicious and somewhat creepy shepherdess with a love of alliteration

20 Azaelia of Willowbottom ~ eligible young maiden & daughter to Diamond and Nogrod [open to whims of the mod] ~ (apprentice?) seamstress

21 the phantom ~ single semi-eligible young man, brother of Eomer of the Rohirrim ~ loud, unpredictable, adventurer

22 Naria ~ young eligible maiden ~ servant who empties and cleans chamber pots

23 Jenny Hallu ~ unmarried maiden & aunt; Celuien's sister ~

24 The Saucepan Man ~ husband of Celuien ~ barkeep

25 Lalaith ~ frivolous aunt and guardian of Oddwen ~

26 Eonwe ~ husband of Lhunardawen & son in law of Nogrod & Diamond ~

27 Eomer of the Rohirrim ~ young eligible, brother of the phantom, courting Kitanna ~

28 Nilpaurion Felagund ~ hubby of Dancing Spawn

29 Gurthang ~ Kath's older brother, son of Nilp & Spawn ~ stable-hand

30 Loki ~ ~ leech collector

Family Tree of the Village (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v604/hukbillgoomba/FamilyTrees2.jpg)

Players are strictly forbidden to post to this thread until the Game Moderator (LMP) opens it up.

[littlemanpoet]

Dueling Wizards Werewolf Rules

There are two wizards, and no other gifted at the beginning of the game, which must have a minimum of 20 players, and an arbitrary maximum (first time) of 30. The two wizard roles are assigned from a list of volunteers who are willing to play the roles.

The two wizards don't know who each other are. One is evil, one is good. Neither wizard can be killed, except by each other.

The game begins with a Night phase.

Evil Wizard: each Night the evil wizard picks a villager to curse as a werewolf. The new werewolf is immediately informed and the mod requests a kill choice, which the werewolf provides by the end of the 24 hours. On the first Night of the game, the Evil Wizard chooses three werewolves; thereafter s/he chooses one per Night.

The werewolves do not know each other's identity because while they are werewolves at Night, they cannot detect the identities underlying the curses. When there are multiple werewolves, and they make differing kill choices, the person with the most werewolf "votes" is killed.{**} If there is a tie, the sub-mod for the evil wizard PMs back to each werewolf about the others' choices, and serves as a go-between until the werewolves have come to a majority choice.

{**First, the werewolves place their individual nominees before the Evil team sub-mod. The sub-mod informs the EW & werewolves of all nominees. The werewolves then pick from amongst the nominees until there is a consensus for the Night as to whom to kill. If there is not unanimity, the kill will be based on majority votes. If no majority has been established by the end of the Night, the EW will choose from among the nominees. The EW may overrule all of the nominees (but should be cautious about doing so), and informs the Evil team sub-mod when s/he does so; the sob-mod then informs the werewolves and gives a summary of the EW's reason(s) for the overrule, if the EW wants to give one.}

If the werewolves happen to pick the EW or a werewolf, ALL will be told to pick another kill.

Note: Werewolves do not PM each other and therefore cannot debate with each other; thus, they are not going to find out each others' identities. If in some odd circumstance, a werewolf gets the most votes for the werewolf kill, the evil wizard has the right to overrule the choice, and the werewolves are told to make a different pick. If in some even odder circumstance, the werewolves choose the evil wizard as their kill, the evil wizard of course has the right to overrule their choice. In a 20 or more player game, if there are 4 to 6 werewolves, there are 2 kills per Night; if there are 7 or more werewolves, there are 3 kills per Night.

If the evil wizard chooses a gifted villager to curse, the gifted villager loses the gift but does not turn into a werewolf ... this time. The good wizard is informed of the loss of the gifting.

If the evil wizard picks the good wizard at Night, he is informed that he has discovered the good wizard, and has the option from then on to call out the good wizard to battle during any Day.

The evil wizard may choose to inform one or more werewolves who one or more other werewolves are; but this is a risky option and should be used with great care, considering the possible consequences.

The evil wizard is allowed to lie to his were-creatures.

Good Wizard: each Night the good wizard picks a villager to scry.

1. If the good wizard scries the evil wizard, the good wizard is informed of that, and can call out the evil wizard to battle during any Day, which results in the death of both wizards.

2. If the good wizard scries a werewolf, the werewolf is turned back into an innocent by the good wizard's power.

3. If the good wizard finds an innocent, the good wizard has the option of turning that innocent into a gifted, the choices being seer, ranger, and hunter. If a gifted is de-gifted by the evil wizard's curse, the good wizard may assign that gift to another. A newly assigned gifted may immediately function in the gift the same Night. If a gifted is killed, the gift may be assigned to another innocent. The new assignment is made via the nightly scry.

NOTE: There may only be one seer at a time, one ranger at a time, and one hunter at a time.

The good wizard may choose to inform one or more gifteds who one or more of the gifteds are.

The good wizard and gifteds may PM during the Day. The good wizard may withhold from, or divulge information to, the gifteds as the good wizard sees fit. All PMs between gifteds and good wizard must pass through the good team sub-moderator. The gifteds do not know who each other is unless the good wizard tells them.

The evil wizard and werewolves win when the werewolves equal or exceed the number of innocents. The villagers and good wizard win when there is no evil wizard left, and no werewolves left.

There are no shirriffs, no werebears, and no cobblers.

If the good wizard and the evil wizard choose the same previously innocent villager on the same Night, the two wizards discover each other's identity by means of the contest. Since the evil wizard still wants a werewolf, the good wizard must choose whether to let the villager die as a casualty of the wrenching experience of the contest, or let the villager survive and become a werewolf.

Just to be perfectly clear: a wizard battle always results in the death of both wizards, and may only happen during the Day. Once both wizards are dead, the werewolf game reverts to classic rules: no PMing between gifteds during the Day.

There is a vote for lynching every Day. If there is a tie vote, then the first player to have received that many votes, is lynched. If a wizard is voted to be lynched, he will be lynched but cannot die that way, and is thus forced to declare himself, and the opposing wizard can call him/her out for a wizard battle the following Day. A wizard cannot be killed by lynching; instead, nobody dies that Day.

If the evil wizard dies, the werewolves are informed of each other's identity, and revert from there on to traditional werewolf group dynamics.

Each Day and Night will be 24 hours; if such a time frame proves somehow unworkable, it may be changed (with notice of course!) during the game.

Order of Night Activities:
1. Evil wizard picks whom to curse.
2. Good wizard pickes whom to scry.
3. Affected players are informed of results of #1 & #2 (if both wizards pick same villager, this phase gets longer but is completed before the next phase begins).
4. Ranger picks whom to save.
5. Seer picks whom to dream.
6. Hunter picks whom to hunt.
7. Werewolves pick whom to kill.
Note: Steps 4 - 7 can happen simultaneously, but will be recorded by the moderator in the order as listed so as to keep the game straight.

Miscellaneous Rulings:
*There are no multiple lynchings.
*A killed or lynched persons previous roles will not be revealed until the game is over.
*Regarding player etiquette: Accusations and suspicions are what the game of werewolf is all about, and that's why we play. This sometimes includes insults which must be considered as 'all in fun' (using appropriate 'smilies' helps to show that it's all in fun); however, there are limits that must not be crossed: if your gameplaying insults are beyond the pale (you're going to have to accept the moderator's judgment on this), you will be considered to have gone overboard. Therefore, anyone going overboard will get a PM from the moderator with a warning to use better etiquette. Any player that "goes overboard" a second time, will be summarily removed from the game with no death narrative. As one of the Wise once said: "It's only a game - don't be offended, but it's only a game - don't be offensive."
*The seer may dream of the same person more than once. The Ranger may NOT defend the same person two Nights in a row; but may defend the same person every OTHER Night.
*The Hunter may kill (and be killed) either by being killed by a 'picked' werewolf, or when lynched.
*No retractable votes.
*When a player dies, the identity and last role of the player will be named, but previous roles will not.
*References to past werewolf games may be made as follows: "My werewolf lorebook(s) say(s) ....."

[littlemanpoet]

The Game begins at 6 p.m. today with Night One.

At that time the following things may happen simultaneously:

1. The evil wizard may officialy pick the first three werewolves.
2. The good wizard may scry one player, resulting in the discovered evil wizard, a discovered and uncursed werwolf, or gift an innocent player.

Immediately following that, the next things may happen simultaneously:

3. The three werewolves may nominate one victim to kill, by sending a PM to Boromir88, the evil team sub-mod.
4. If the good wizard has bestowed a gift, the gifted player may, if a seer, pick a player to dream; if a ranger, pick a player to guard; if a hunter, pick a player to hunt.

The victim nomination process will continue until (1) a consensus is reached regarding the werwolf kill, or (2) a majority is reached, or (3) the evil wizard overrules the werewolf choice, which ever happens first.

There will be another narrative post roughly around 6 pm EDT today. Following that will be the first Day post, which will go up at roughly 6pm Friday. Once that post is up, posting may commence.

CRITICAL EDIT: The first Night's kill is Elempi, widowed father of Diamond of the Battledores. Therefore, the werewolves do NOT need to nominate a kill for Night one. Sorry for the confusion.

[littlemanpoet]

The Evil Wizard coveted the power spoken of, and did as instructed. The evil wizard knew that there was a Good Wizard, for the Watchers had foretold it. It came into the evil wizard's mind to have the werewolves kill the Watchers first, but the Shadow had expressly forbidden it saying, "Those two belong to me. It is mine to end their lives. Touch them at your peril." The Evil Wizard left them alone.

After much study, the Evil Wizard deemed that the time was ripe, and cursed three of the Seal Folk, and they became werewolves that Night. He sent them forth to do their killing.

* * * * *

One of the Seal Folk, who had, as all the others, prepared for the prophecy through much study and practice, woke up to see the Two Watchers standing in the room.

The Lady said, "You are the Good Wizard foretold."

The Man said, "You must act tonight. You know what you must do."

This person blinked and rubbed at sleepy eyes, and looked again. The Two Watchers were not there. Had they ever been? They were only ever seated upon the stones! Scry a villager, spoke a whispered voice in the person's mind. "I am the good wizard," said this one. "I must do what I can!" The Good Wizard got to work.

* * * * *

Night One has now begun. Let the Game Begin!

[littlemanpoet]

Night One Intricacies

The good wizard felt at a loss, and rushed about the room looking for just the right book. "Scrying," mumbled the good wizard. "That's what I need to do. How is it done?" At last the good wizard found the right ancient volume and poured over it long into the night, and almost until dawn before being sure of what action to take.

Meanwhile the evil wizard had not been idle, but had cursed three villagers, and they had become werewolves. They raced into the night and sought their prey, finding him alone, asleep, and defenseless. They woke him and leered at his terror, then attacked him, first a gash to the throat so that he could not scream. Then they mauled him, almost beyond recognition. Almost.

At last the good wizard rose from the table and scried. The one scried was fanged! "Uncursed be!" cried the good wizard. As luck would have it, the killing and disposing of the body had been long gone and the other two werwolves were not nearby. The uncursed werewolf was safe, and no longer a werewolf. Almost, however, the good wizard saw a shadow of some kind, lurking in the darkness behind the identity of this former werewolf. "The evil wizard!" the good wizard said. "I must discern!" But the good wizard had not studied discernment of the evil wizard, and was unprepared, and could not discover the evil wizard's identity. The good wizard resolved to be prepared the following night.

[littlemanpoet]

A Note on Rules

The first loophole has been discovered. The good wizard chose to scry one of the players that the evil wizard had cursed. On any other Night, I would have allowed the rules to function as I have written them. This Night, however, is a special Night, and I decided that the play of the game would be compromised if the good wizard found out the identity of the evil wizard before there was even a Day One. So I made a decision that the evil wizard's choices would be made early on this Night, and the good wizard's scrying performed late. If this game is ever played a second time, I would strongly recommend that: The Good Wizard does not scry on Night One. The plot does function more cleanly that way, as Loki has suggested. But the gameplay was the deciding factor. There you have it. We shall see how many more of these snap decisions will be needed during this game. Not too many, I hope. Bear with me, it's going to be an interesting ride!

[littlemanpoet]

Day One

Elempi's father had been all the way to Umbar in his day. He had returned with the oldest tome the village had seen, and won renown thereby; and the hand of a fair maiden named, if bargain one could call it. When Elempi was a name of Umbarian origin, and so the babe's father settled on it. Elempi is translated from the Umbarian tongue as bard of little account; or in the slang of that land, two bit poet. Elempi did grow into his name. He gained a reputation for the wittiest doggerel that any had heard, but never a serious line of verse passed his lips. He married Nar and their only child was Diamond. But Nar was drowned in the sea in a sudden gale while her fishing husband was safe off the coast. Elempi grew sad for the loss, but gladness came when Diamond married Nogrod, the village jester who, though not given to verse, took up where his father-in-law had left off for jollity. Nogrod and Diamond gave joy to Elempi's declining years. with three children, though Diamond lost that same number to illness and early death. Yet the three who lived to walk on two feet were lovely girls. Their grandfather loved them and delighted in them.

Until this day. The sun rose over the distant Ered Luin, shedding light upon fragmented, rushing clouds that broke off the sea as if fleeing in fear, chased on crying winds by the gods.

The villagers found a corpse lying at the foot of the Rock of the Watchers, who looked still out to sea. But a single tear slid down the quiet face of each. The corpse was Elempi, and was marred cruelly by wanton maulings that were far more than needed to kill.

"Papa!" cried Diamond, kneeling by the corpse.

"This is murder!" grated her husband, Nogrod. "It is the evil the Watchers warned of! What should we do?"

Lalaith said, "The Watchers said there would be a wizard among us. That one will save us."

"How do we know that is so?" asked Lommy.

"So the Watchers spoke, according to the old tales," said Alcarillo.

"Cursed by the evil one," said a voice they had not heard before, "werewolves three." It was the Lady Watcher.

All the Seal Folk, after a moment of stunned silence, erupted in a chaos of questions. She did not reply, but looked out to Sea.

"One cursed new each Night shall be," said the Man, not taking his eyes from the sea.

Now the stunned silence was not broken, for fear had overcome them all.

"Two remain," the Lady intoned, "for one was turned again."

At last, mormegil the mayor spoke. "The good wizard may help us, but we must do what we may," and this one laid out a plan for the village to talk amongst themselves and choose one each day from their number whose life should end as sundown, in hopes of ending the life a werewolf. Each of the Seal Folk acknowledged that it was a desperate measure, but needed nonetheless.

Suddenly Diamond wailed. "They've taken his heart!" Sure enough: almost surgically, the chest had been opened and the heart removed, carefully cut. What diabolical purposes did the evil wizard have for this? All wondered, but none could say.

So the Day began.

Play Officially Commences for Day One at 6pm EDT.

[Loki]

Loki grumbled, thoroughly annoyed at the events that had taken place the night before. "If you think that this bloke had a rough night," He jerked his head toward the desecrated corpse of Elempi midsentence, "...you ought to have waited until morn' in my bed." The aging leech collector cracked his neck, advanced beyond its years fromt he abuse his work had put him through-- namely infections of the bacteria from the collected creatures, but added upon the stresses of blood loss and forced rapid revitalization.

"By Eru, both of those damned wizards must have been vying for the collection of my soul this night. Visions of fur and claw and tooth dominated my mind; I couldn't catch a wink." He growled in a quiet tone, irritability clearly having become the order of the day. "The wizarding pair of which the Watchers spoke must have lost nearly as much sleep as I in fighting over the reclaimation of my soul." He kicked a nearby puppy that had dared cross his path in the early morning. "Thankfully, perhaps, I neither lost my life in the scrap nor transformed into one of those foul lycanthropes."

OOC: Gee, what does Loki know? He must be some kind of bloomin' idiot, he must. Know what? I fully exercise my right to the "I told you so" clause of the Immaturity Papers.



I told you so.





...MAN, that felt good.

[Nogrod]

What a discrace! What an evil!

My father-in-law killed! You morons will pay for this!

Why didn't the watchers tell us, that this would befall on us? Are they in a league with the evil-doers? And how come the leech-collector makes his predictions already before they were killed?

Loki grumbled, thoroughly annoyed at the events that had taken place the night before. "If you think that this bloke had a rough night," He jerked his head toward the desecrated corpse of Elempi midsentence, "...you ought to have waited until morn' in my bed."
"By Eru, both of those damned wizards must have been vying for the collection of my soul this night. Visions of fur and claw and tooth dominated my mind; I couldn't catch a wink."

So fifteen minutes before he died, this Loki guy was already making his
I told you so. remark here... and trying to assure us, that he was astonished, why he was not the subject of the death - or scrying!

...MAN, that felt good.

DO I need to comment on this one? :smokin:


Well, it's the time of grief, and I won't be with you in some hours. We must make preparations for the funerals right now. But believe me, I'll be back, more furious than ever you have seen - to hunt down these horrible mutations that have killed my father-in-law!

[Celuien]

Evil times are upon us, friends. Long have we known that doom would come upon us, yet none us of looked to see it in our time. Yet it seems that fate has chosen us alone of the Seal Folk, and the Reindeer Folk that were our ancestors (may their memory be praised!) to meet this horror. And what a wicked horror it is that would choose to slay Elempi, kind man that he was. I will not forget the many hours he spent, telling me the tales of our folk, when I was but I lass no higher than his knee. May we swiftly avenge his death.

I know not who among us has turned to evil. I will vouch for my own family, though in truth, I cannot be certain if any among them have been brought into the dark. But I find it hard to believe that my own husband, the Man of Many Pans, could possibly slip out of our home to do foul works without somehow alerting me. Nor could my girls, Kitanna and Naria. And don’t any of you go accusing my poor, sweet, quiet Naria for her shyness. Why, it isn’t her fault, what with her father and me always talking at each other. Poor child could never get a word in edgewise. No wonder she doesn’t say much to us anymore. Nor can I believe that my dear sister Jenny or my father (morm) could be werewolves. I’ve known them my whole life and they’ve never been anything but good to me. Except for the whole business of their opposing my marriage, but I’ll not hold that against them.

That Eomer though. Imagine him courting my daughter without so much as a word to her father or mother. ‘Tis most shocking behavior and speaks to some mischief. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if he did turn out to have lupine tendencies.

So much uncertainty. I would try to heal the evil that has befallen us, but this foe is beyond my poor skill. Fevers and ill humours - ailments of the body - I can assuage, but the business of Wizards, Good or Evil, is outside my ability.

I rejoice that the Good Wizard in our midst has cured one of our number who had fallen to evil treachery. I doubt, however, that the one was Loki. Though I appreciate his deliveries of leeches for my healing art, he is somewhat less known to the village than some of the others here. The Evil Wizard could strike a sore blow to us by taking those closer to the community; my husband or father, for instance. That crazed adventurer the phantom. Or even, yes, the rascal Eomer. And any of them are as likely to have drawn the notice of our Good Wizard too. All have served our village well, and could aid us greatly in possession of the gifts the Good Wizard is said to be able to bestow. But only the Wizards, and perhaps the saved victim, know who the fortunate one is.

In way of advice, I can only say to try and keep a clear head. Watch for those among us who are changeable, for they might have changed in more ways than their words. Even to the point of seeking our destruction.

[mormegil]

I've never trusted that Eomer and I would suspect him of Lycanthropy at best but more than likely he's the evil wizard. I say we kill him! Plus this will prevent him from marrying into my family.

[Loki]

OCC: *rolls eyes* Fine, Nogrod, if it's THAT important to you, I'll delete my post and repost. Is that what you want? I had just happened to be available at that point in time, and making sure I could catch one last meal at my favorite cafe before it closed for the summer happened to be more important to me than some silly internet game. I had to use the money I had on credit there, else I would lose it. So, unless you're willing to cough up $20.00 for my meal next time, I'll be sure to follow the rules a little more closely. If you REALLY want me to delete that post and place it later, you're certainly welcome to ask. I simply did not have the time for wait around for an extra fifteen minutes. Some of us have lives and jobs outside of this forum.

Also, my "I Told You So" statement was directed towards this:

If this game is ever played a second time, I would strongly recommend that: The Good Wizard does not scry on Night One. The plot does function more cleanly that way, as Loki has suggested. But the gameplay was the deciding factor. There you have it.

Not directed towards my being transmogrified and then scryed. That, even I could not predict. I was not wholly suprised by this action; I am, obviously, the best pick(And, being newest to the forums) and least suspicious of the group. Chances are good that I would not have been considered to be anything evil and wrong... just yet.

[Diamond18]

I have the most reason to mourn this day, since it was my very own venerable and beloved father who fell to the beasts. Ai! Foul dwimmerlaiks. *shakes fist*

However, one does not get to be my age without learning to maintain a stiff upper lip and turn sorrow into action. Vengeance! *raises battledore with a mad gleam in eyes* I do not like the idea of losing any more of my family to this menace, but am prepared to avenge each and every loss. I've been preparing all day by knitting together battledores, a pair for each of my daughters to defend themselves with. Noggie dear has a nice collection of juggling knives, also, which will no doubt come to good use.

And so, I now lay out my thoughts about the days ahead:

Well, I do believe I announced my intentions for this earlier, but I will repeat myself for the sake of annoying redundancy.

Today I do not intend to vote for anyone in my family. This includes Nogrod, Lhuna, Zali, Firefoot, and if he's a really good boy, Eonwe. Also, being the loyal battledame that I am, I will vote to save the lives of any of these people should the opportunity present itself.

As the days darken and evil stretches its clammy hand over the village, (i.e. after Day 1) I will break with family ties if I see fit. But not before then, so don't bother trying to talk me out of it.

Now, on to the really serious portion of my opening speech. Here are my thoughts on the various inhabitants of the village and some predictions for how their time amongst the dueling wizards shall go.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~


Diamond (a.ka. me) ~ I am clearly a wolf. Possibly even a mangy one. With a foaming mouth. In a strange twist of fate, I am also a Seer, a Hunter, and a Ranger, as well as being versed in both Good and Evil Wizardry.

Celuien ~ Evil. Just look at those beady little red eyes. It's not natural.

Caran ~ The eldest child of Roa and Sleepy, obviously prone to bouts of uncontrollable evil, and with parents like that, who can blame her? Still, she's just your ordinary psychopath. Can't find any traces of fur on her.

Roa ~ Seer, of course. Why else do you think she always appears to know everything?

Nogrod ~ My dear long suffering hubby, it's only a matter of time before he snaps. Sure he's okay now, but watch out for that one in the later stages.

Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant ~ Is the Evil Wizard, no doubt about it.

Kath ~ Pure as the driven snow. Possibly Ranger material.

Lommy ~ Another one of them Roa/Sleepy spawn. This one's clearly got hair sprouting in all the wrong places.

Lhuna ~ My eldest child, my pride and joy. Clearly innocent.

Glirdan ~ Owl.

Valier ~ Is the Good Wizard. Naturally.

Sleepy Ranger ~ I'm predicting will die innocent at the hands of a lynch mob headed by his wife.

Kitanna ~ Will eat her beau for midnight snack before the game is over.

Firefoot ~ My youngest, the baby of the family, sadly obviously a wolf.

Alcarillo ~ Is sick. Sick sick SICK.

Cailín ~ Completely innocent of everything but marrying Alc and giving birth to Phantom and Eomer, folly which will surely be punished by a lynching.

Oddwen ~ Will eventually be killed in a struggle between the Wizards.

Mormegil ~ Is completely innocent but will be highly suspect the entire game, until he is lynched at a crucial point.

Fea ~ Wolf.

Azaelia ~ Future Seer. My children are all high achievers.

the phantom ~ Wolf, Seer, Hunter, Ranger, Good and Evil Wizard. Also, Cobbler, Shirrif, and newspaper delivery boy. He gets around.

Naria ~ Inhuman.

JennyHallu ~ Bad to the bone.

The Saucepan Man ~ Must die.

Lalaith ~ An angel incarnate. Also a centerfold. Scary, isn't it?

Eonwe ~ Well, obviously I would never marry my daughter to anyone I thought less than highly of. He's the Good Wizard, too.

Eomer ~ Hunter. He'll kill Kitanna while she's snacking on him. What a narrative that will make.

Nilp ~ Is a freakin' genius. He'll be the first to die, though.

Gurthang ~ Clearly, he's evil.

Loki ~ Smells bad.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

And that, ladies and gents, is the word from the battledore shop.

[Diamond18]

OCC: *rolls eyes* Fine, Nogrod, if it's THAT important to you, I'll delete my post and repost. Is that what you want? I had just happened to be available at that point in time, and making sure I could catch one last meal at my favorite cafe before it closed for the summer happened to be more important to me than some silly internet game. I had to use the money I had on credit there, else I would lose it. So, unless you're willing to cough up $20.00 for my meal next time, I'll be sure to follow the rules a little more closely. If you REALLY want me to delete that post and place it later, you're certainly welcome to ask. I simply did not have the time for wait around for an extra fifteen minutes. Some of us have lives and jobs outside of this forum.

I was wondering to myself, today, as I was knitting my battledores, "I wonder how many posts it will take for Loki to get insulting and insufferable."

And the answer is two!

Seriously, though, don't blow your stack every time someone calls your posts into question. It happens to everyone.

[Valier]

Now this is truly sad! One of our own villagers, Killed!! Well my sister Fea and I cannot possibly be one of the culprits, you see we were at home, together, eating Mutton and vegetables, yes, lots and lots of vegatables! Now I have often wondered about some of you damn families....always so happy, so wonderfully happy...who needs all that when you have mutton and vegetables? mmmmmmmm mutton and vegetables....

Oh so I was saying...I don't trust these family units. They can cover for a furry family member for quite some time, I am sure. So I for one will be keeping my eyes on all of you...there has to be some family termoil that shall point us towards those fiends!

[Kath]

Mum, Dad? Now where have they disappeared off to? :p

Well, Day 1 has barely begun and we seem to have arguments already. Going to have to watch this Loki fellow I think, certainly a snapper! And morm already gunning for Eomer's death. It's all go around here!

But it is getting late for me, so I think I'd better pack myself off to bed before I get grounded. Til tomorrow (RL)!

[Alcarillo]

Ah! What woe! Our poor Elempi is dead! What grief! I remember those days we rhymed together in the square, I with my sea chanteys and he with his limericks. But now these days are gone!
That Eomer though. Imagine him courting my daughter without so much as a word to her father or mother. ‘Tis most shocking behavior and speaks to some mischief. It wouldn’t surprise me one bit if he did turn out to have lupine tendencies.
Though his mother may have raised him to be a lady-killer, I did not raise my son to be a murderer! I will stand by my family.
I've never trusted that Eomer and I would suspect him of Lycanthropy at best but more than likely he's the evil wizard. I say we kill him! Plus this will prevent him from marrying into my family.
What, my son not good enough for your granddaughter? Is that it?!

I've got my eyes on you, gramps. Your entire family reeks of werewolvery to me.
Alcarillo ~ Is sick. Sick sick SICK.

Cailín ~ Completely innocent of everything but marrying Alc and giving birth to Phantom and Eomer, folly which will surely be punished by a lynching.
And now my wife is threatened! I swear... :mad:

[Firefoot]

My grandfather dead? This is an outrage! We must have vengeance on these terrible wolves. I must say that I slept quite soundly last night, with no one in our house going in and out; I do believe that they are quite innocent until I receve clear evidence otherwise. And why would we murder our own kin? Now the question is, who would?

Now, that Loki, he's a pretty shady character.

And Eomer and phantom... can't say I quite trust either of them. They've certainly been known for mischief before now.

That Oddwen has always been a rather strange child as well; can't say I'd quite trust her, nor her aunt, letting her carry on with those antics of hers.

[Celuien]

I've never trusted that Eomer and I would suspect him of Lycanthropy at best but more than likely he's the evil wizard. I say we kill him! Plus this will prevent him from marrying into my family.
Well, I agree to anything that stops him from marrying Kitanna. But sadly, if he's the evil wizard, we can't kill him, dad. What's this I hear about his being involved in piracy?

Have at thee, battledore maker! I care not about insults to my own character, but where my sister, husband and children are concerned, I will brook no scornful words proffered without good cause. :mad: At least no insults were hurled at my poor father, which speaks well of you, but apologies are still owing.

[Nogrod]

= Loki
OCC: *rolls eyes* Fine, Nogrod, if it's THAT important to you, I'll delete my post and repost. Is that what you want?
= Diamond
I was wondering to myself, today, as I was knitting my battledores, "I wonder how many posts it will take for Loki to get insulting and insufferable."

I just must second my wife here! *ducks the battledore-sweep* But really, that was not the point... and do not care about it... for awhile at least. :rolleyes: Just don't make yourself forcibly made available to that kind of indecent accusations later on...

Also, my "I Told You So" statement was directed towards this:[QUOTE]=lmp
If this game is ever played a second time, I would strongly recommend that: The Good Wizard does not scry on Night One. The plot does function more cleanly that way, as Loki has suggested. But the gameplay was the deciding factor. There you have it.
I will drink to your favour on this one!
But I will also request you to see the probability of this one happening (and thence kind of ask, whether lmp was a bit overhasty in his judgement - or whether those dry runs didn't take consideration of us WW-gamers being "known enough" to build up some categories that are not the same as neutral dice-rolls - that was one of my concerns before the game)

But anyhow, we all get it right sometimes, and on others not (I got two werecats right from the initials of an original death poem, but can't say, that I could have honestly bragged afterwards, that "I told you so"!).
I am, obviously, the best pick(And, being newest to the forums) and least suspicious of the group. Chances are good that I would not have been considered to be anything evil and wrong... just yet Anyone making that claim is the most suspicious so far. I'm kind of irritated by the change of the tenor of your voice in the discussion thread. There you were mostly challenging everyone. So why not anymore? Now after just one light suspicion (basic first day stuff anyhow - just picking on some twistable detail), you start defending yourself like a wolf (even appealing to your newbieness - quite unlike in the discussion-thread)?

If you have been picked as a wolf by the EW just because no-one will vote you on the first days as a vocal newbie (and somewhat an arrogant one) - I hope you rot in hell pretty soon - if you are an innocent, well, try to do something for us! "Show your qualities"!

Now the funeral awaits, and I must try to support my wife and children... Sorry, the time of mourning is holy. I hope you see it as such too. See you in the evening..

EDIT: X-posted with Alcarillo, Firefoot & Celuien

[Caranlondien]

Dear me, this is most distressing. Elempi shall be sorely missed!

Caran ~ The eldest child of Roa and Sleepy, obviously prone to bouts of uncontrollable evil, and with parents like that, who can blame her? Still, she's just your ordinary psychopath. Can't find any traces of fur on her.
Indeed, the only fur you'll find on me will be that which naturally gets all over one's clothing when one is a sled-team driver. Speaking of which, my team of dogs is fierce and loyal, so you werewolves out there had best not come near my family!

(Looks around at the villagers.) Alas, I see evidence of neither werewolf nor evil wizard. Perhaps my dogs could sniff out the culprits...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Checking in so that everyone will know that I'm here. Sort of.

[Loki]

OOC: Gasp. Who ever would have guessed that I, Loki, play games in a tone removed from my traditional communication methods? Nogrod! You have stumbled upon one of the everlasting mysteries of time itself! Alas! I reveal myself! I do, in fact, play games in a different manner than I live my life! Too cruel, now you all know the horrid, terrible truth...

Know now that Loki will get insufferable and retaliatory within one post of someone deserving a swift kick in the teeth. Verbal or otherwise. (That being a post of his own, not necessarily the next post linearly. That's just asking too much.)

I merely remarked that being new to the game would make me appear to be rather UN-canine in nature. A very good choice to curse, if you would. However, if you do so wish to ignore this offer of insight upon the thought processes of those who had attempted to transmogrify me, be it well on yourself. Think of it as me being a wolf. It's your bloody loss, villager. Unless, of course, you are a wolf, and turning suspicions on me is naught but a not-so-clever scheme to remove suspicions from yourself. Bear in mind, lycanthrope, that when I am lynched, eyes will turn upon thee...

I defend myself because I offer insight. I defend myself because I have, at least for the moment, a serious claim to my innocence. I offer more than attacks against an arrogant newcomer to divert attention away from anyone else in this game. I may be a new and shady character, but that does little to condemn me.

I also was not the one who said: (And I quote:)

See you in the evening..

[Nogrod]

Loki!

If Spm would have taken on a new identity, it would be you... :D

[Diamond18]

I see I'm going to have to be a bit clearer about this....

*Regarding player etiquette: Accusations and suspicions are what the game of werewolf is all about, and that's why we play. This sometimes includes insults which must be considered as 'all in fun' (using appropriate 'smilies' helps to show that it's all in fun); however, there are limits that must not be crossed: if your gameplaying insults are beyond the pale (you're going to have to accept the moderator's judgment on this), you will be considered to have gone overboard. Therefore, anyone going overboard will get a PM from the moderator with a warning to use better etiquette. Any player that "goes overboard" a second time, will be summarily removed from the game with no death narrative. As one of the Wise once said: "It's only a game - don't be offended, but it's only a game - don't be offensive."

I stand by my "husband" on this matter... perhaps his initial accusations against Loki were not strictly logical, but they had no malice outside of the usual game dynamics. Loki, you seem determined to respond with personal insults and a highly belittling tone of voice in all your posts. I've got my eye on you, and not for lycanthropy or wizardry -- for garden variety bad sportsmanship. The fact remains that you DID post early in your eagerness to get the first post in, and the fact that Nogrod used this against you does not make him deserving of your rather hyperbolic rants. I find it really rather amusing that you were overeager enough to post early but then reacted to Nogrod by railing about your RL situation -- a mere hour later! -- saying how you have a life outside this board. Well, my goodness, I have a life too and that's why I wasn't able to post till about 50 minutes after the start time. You couldn't wait that long to post in "some silly internet game," eh? Sorry, but I'm not impressed by your antics so far.

[Firefoot]

I have to say that I agree... Loki, so far I have found your behavior to be down-right rude and overreactive.I merely remarked that being new to the game would make me appear to be rather UN-canine in nature. A very good choice to curse, if you would. Loki, your being new could mean just about anything. Perhaps the EW would avoid you because of it, figuring on your inexperience, or perhaps he would choose you for it, figuring you were something of a wildcard. It could go either way, and you are getting extremely fired up over it, which leads me to wonder if we aren't hitting close to the mark...

[Diamond18]

And now my wife is threatened! I swear... :mad:

:) Actually I did not mean it a threat, per se, more as a prediction. Let us hope that many of my predictions were overly dire and don't come true. I've considered myself a friend of your wife these many years, especially since both your sons have shown interest in my daughters from time to time. Many afternoons were spent drinking tea and eating honeycakes while clucking our tongues and gossiping about the antics of our children. By the way, if you see your elder son any time soon tell him that if he wants to court my Zali he'd better keep away from Evil Wizards, or he'll have hell to pay!

[Diamond18]

Regarding the matter of Loki being the villager changed and un-changed last night:

It's altogether possible that the Evil Wizard would choose Loki in hopes that his newbie status would grant him safety from lynching. I can't say that I think the EW would be very smart to do this, because Loki is highly vocal and likes rubbing people the wrong way -- and make no mistake such things do come into play for lynchings, especially in a Day 1 situation. I certainly have no qualms about the idea of lynching him, he's eager enough to show us all how good he is at the game so I don't see the need to give him the benefit of the doubt like I would a newbie who seemed quiet or shy. But, oh well, who am I to tell the EW how to play? So it is entirely possible.

It's also possible that the Good Wizard decided to scry him as well. Perhaps s/he was counting on Loki not being an attractive Werewolf kill -- from a Wolfish point of view his brashness could provide plenty of distraction for the villagers to fight over, and so they'd leave him alive. From the GW's PoV, this might be a good reason to Gift him -- he has a very good chance of surviving the Nights. So the GW tries to Gift him and instead un-curses him. All entirely plausible.

However, even though it's possible and I can certainly see the reasoning of both Wizards, I can't accept it as fact just because Loki claimed it. He could be lying. He could be telling the truth. We have no way of knowing, besides a lynching.

EDIT: Actually, silly Diamond, even a lynching wouldn't tell us that. Loki could easily come up as an Ordo and still have been lying, for whatever reason. So I amend my final comment to: "We have no way of knowing, till the end of the game."

[Celuien]

I'm not sure. Loki's...ahem...self-assuredness isn't entirely inconsistent with his legendary debates with the phantom. ;) His behavior today certainly set off alarm bells for me, but because it is sort of what I expected to see, I'd rather adopt a wait and see attitude for my part.

[Diamond18]

I'm not sure. Loki's...ahem...self-assuredness isn't entirely inconsistent with his legendary debates with the phantom. ;)

Actually, Mrs. SpM, I was going to ask my husband about that matter, and forgot, thank you for reminding me.

Noggins: Why exactly do you think Loki has changed since before the death of Elempi? (Poor Papa! *sniff*) The well known spat he had with Cai and Alc's boy (always was getting into trouble, that one -- Zali, what do you see in him??) made me expect to see more of the same... and... well basically I'm a little flummoxed by your talk of a different style, because I've also seen what I expected. *nods to Mrs. SpM*

There you were mostly challenging everyone. So why not anymore?

He's been challenging you, my dear jester! That's why I find this comment rather strange.

[Gurthang]

Why, Eru, why! Why now! I had a vacation coming up soon! :rolleyes:

Truly, this is a sad day in the history of the Seal Folk. The loss of Elempi shall always sting in my mind. Perhaps a holiday of remembrance should be put into writing? That is, assuming that any of us survive this horrid ordeal.

It's those blasted wizards, I tell you! That's the core of this problem. Those Watchers told us this would happen, and here it is. And what's worse? We can't even get rid of this Evil fellow ourselves! The Good Wizard has to do it for us. And until that time, we won't have any clue what's happening. Until the wizards are gone... *thinks*

That gives me an idea. We have to find those wizards. Well, maybe not 'those' wizards so much as a wizard. It'd be pretty hard to find both, but we don't have to. Think about it. If we try to lynch the Evil Wizard and thus reveal him, then the Good Wizard can call him out and kill him. Then we can concentrate on finding all the wolves that will be running around. Conversely, if we accidentally try to lynch the Good Wizard, then we will know who he is and be able to follow his lead. The Evil Wizard won't be too eager to battle him, as his [the EW's] strength lies in surviving for long enough to make lots of wolves.

So, what do the rest of you think? I'm thinking it's almost a win-win. It gives us something solid to shoot for, as opposed to randomly lynching people who might be wolves, or might have been wolves, or whatever. *thinks again* Ah, shoot, maybe I'm off my rocker anyway. I guess it's almost just as random, but I'd rather have something solid to shoot for than try to aim at something that won't stay still!

But, seeing as this plan might not be favorable by all, I guess I should try something else. If we are concentrating on wolves, then it seems like we should think about who's least likely to be dreamed of by a Seer. I'm going to use Saucepan as an example, because he's well respected for his mind.

I do not think we should worry about Saucepan Man. Here's why: Even if he is turned into a wolf (which would be the only reason we would want to lynch him) then he'll probably be revealed sooner rather than later anyway. That's because any good Seer will dream of him first (or close to that). So, if the Seer will dream of him, then we'll have a good way of figuring out if he's a wolf or not.

So, in summary, I think we should aim to lynch people who would not be obvious Seer choices. And on that note, I think we should look at Naria or Alcarillo or Azaelia or Lommy or Lalaith.

Wow, that was a mouthful. But I do have a bit more to say, although you'll have to read it here (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=467317&postcount=3173).

[the phantom]

How sad. I rather liked Elempi. He always made me laugh.

But don't go accusing my brother. I'll admit, Eomer is a bit of scoundrel, but he's also a good man at heart. Not only that, but I would know if he had been up and about last night- he's my room mate.

Now, about Loki's claim. Maybe we should just leave it alone for the time being. The GW is bound to reveal him/herself soon, and will no doubt tell us the truth of this matter. Until such time, I see no overwhelming reason to believe or disbelieve Loki.

Now, at this time I'd just like to say that Diamond is making a lot of sense, besides being very lovely.
*hopes flattery will soften Zali's mother up*

And I'd better not hear a word against Zali from anyone. According to my stories I've heard of Werewolves, Zali can't be cursed because of... er, because of... her... extreme hotness.

Yes! That's right- I've read that ridiculously beautiful people can't become Werewolves, because.... Werewolves.... are ugly.
*hopes that sounded convincing*

[Alcarillo]

:) Actually I did not mean it a threat, per se, more as a prediction. Let us hope that many of my predictions were overly dire and don't come true. I've considered myself a friend of your wife these many years, especially since both your sons have shown interest in my daughters from time to time. Many afternoons were spent drinking tea and eating honeycakes while clucking our tongues and gossiping about the antics of our children.
Comforting words. I'm glad somebody approves of my son. *glares at morm and Celuien*
By the way, if you see your elder son any time soon tell him that if he wants to court my Zali he'd better keep away from Evil Wizards, or he'll have hell to pay!
I can assure you that Cailin and I allow absolutely no black magic in our household. :)
That gives me an idea. We have to find those wizards. Well, maybe not 'those' wizards so much as a wizard. It'd be pretty hard to find both, but we don't have to. Think about it. If we try to lynch the Evil Wizard and thus reveal him, then the Good Wizard can call him out and kill him. Then we can concentrate on finding all the wolves that will be running around. Conversely, if we accidentally try to lynch the Good Wizard, then we will know who he is and be able to follow his lead. The Evil Wizard won't be too eager to battle him, as his [the EW's] strength lies in surviving for long enough to make lots of wolves.
It would be much harder on us if we lynch the Good Wizard (no new gifteds, for one thing), so I would focus primarily on hunting down the Evil Wizard to stop the cursings.
So, in summary, I think we should aim to lynch people who would not be obvious Seer choices. And on that note, I think we should look at Naria or Alcarillo or Azaelia or Lommy or Lalaith.
You want to lynch me?! :eek: I have to be careful of what I say from now on...

[JennyHallu]

Mercy me! Our dear Elempi...what a shame. I always did tell you though, no good comes of meddling in furrin places. But my thoughts are with your family, Diamond, even if you did go and get married to a fool. At least you never take any nonsense.

Now, I've got a big house to take care of, and my dear old dad will be needing his supper, so I'm not going to be around much for a few hours. But you can be sure that I will be around and alert in a little while here. I've got my eye on you!

[Diamond18]

Now, at this time I'd just like to say that Diamond is making a lot of sense, besides being very lovely.
*hopes flattery will soften Zali's mother up*

Flattery, as a rule, will get you everywhere. But if I find that you had anything to do with my father's death (anything!) even the most honeyed words will avail you none. Got that? Good.

[Gurthang]

It would be much harder on us if we lynch the Good Wizard (no new gifteds, for one thing), so I would focus primarily on hunting down the Evil Wizard to stop the cursings.

Well, even if we did attempt to lynch the Good Wizard, we can't kill him. So basically we would only force him out, but I don't think that that really hurts us.

So phatom, if werewolves are ugly, how about you take off that burly cloak and show us how you look... :p ;)

But I'm inclined to agree with you about Azaelia, though, despite her being on my little maybe-to-lynch-toDay list above. But it's not because she's so beautiful... *trys to think of another reason*... uhm... ( :rolleyes: )

[Caranlondien]

Well, Gurthang's idea of searching for the evil wizard seems to make sense to me. We must help our good wizard in his/her search! As for the danger of accidentally stumbling upon the good wizard and revealing him/her, it seems to me that by the time the evil wizard would be in such a position that he/she would actually want to challenge the good wizard (i.e., by the time our poor village has been overrun by werewolves), chances are that the evil wizard would have found the good wizard on his/her own, anyway.

An aside: Blast these pronouns! I just don't want to unconsciously make assumptions about the genders of the wizards...

[the phantom]

Gurthang, you speak wise words. Trying to lynch the wizards isn't a bad idea. The GW won't stay hidden for long, so it won't hurt too much to reveal him/her. However, I think we can do better than lynching the GW. The GW and EW will likely have different playing strategies. I won't go into detail now, but there are certain things that will likely define the way the GW and EW post during the day, and we can use those behaviors as a guideline, making it more likely we will lynch the EW than the GW.

Every night, the GW has a chance of scrying the EW or scrying the same person the EW curses, and the Seer has a chance of spotting the EW. On top of that, if we villagers try our best to lynch the EW every day, that will give us three chances per cycle of catching the treacherous villain.

Honestly, catching an independent EW is no more difficult than catching wolves right now in a way, because though the wolves are "on the same team", they are likely clueless as to the identity of his/her wolvish counterpart, thus they will not be supporting each other or functioning as a team in any way.
I do not think we should worry about Saucepan Man. Here's why: Even if he is turned into a wolf (which would be the only reason we would want to lynch him) then he'll probably be revealed sooner rather than later anyway. That's because any good Seer will dream of him first (or close to that). So, if the Seer will dream of him, then we'll have a good way of figuring out if he's a wolf or not.
I believe you speak truth. If you ask me, Sauce and I (and some others, perhaps, such as morm, Eomer, and Firefoot) will not be turned into a Werewolf early in the contest. The longer one is a wolf, the better chance there is of getting caught, especially if the Wolf is a likely Seer/GW target. If the EW wants to curse me (or one of the others I named), it would make much more sense for him/her to do so late in the game, right before the death of the wizards.

Also, don't bother looking for clues from the Seer. The Seer will no doubt be passing on all dream info to the GW, and leave it to him/her to divulge. The primary goal of the Seer is to avoid being killed and continue nightly activities. Unfortunately, this is identical to the goal of the EW, and so if we adopt Gurthang's plan of trying to lynch the EW, we might lynch the Seer by mistake.

(and no, I don't believe Gurthang had this in mind when he recommended it)

No matter how this village fares, we are likely to see a lot of death in the coming weeks. In my many travels I've heard stories of events such as these, and few of them ended well, and the ones that did- there weren't many left to celebrate. I, myself, fully expect to die before the end. But no matter. Let us all keep a stiff upper lip through these events, and not allow grief to stop us from doing our duty- stopping this tide of evil here and now! If we fail, there is no telling how far the evil will spread.

[Diamond18]

I won't go into detail now, but there are certain things that will likely define the way the GW and EW post during the day, and we can use those behaviors as a guideline, making it more likely we will lynch the EW than the GW.

Well, I'll be on pins and needles to hear this... I've been giving it some thought and haven't really come up with any good ideas about what sorts of posting may indicate Wizadry. I kind of expect the Evil Wizard to be quiet, though, since most of his/her activity will take place during the Night and the less noticable s/he makes his/herself during the Day the less chance s/he'll have of being dreamt about. But "quiet" can often describe a good many players, so I'm feeling a bit vague on that score.

I must say, to discover the Evil Wizard toDay or next Night would be excellent luck for the village, since there are only two Werewolves and a massive amount of villagers. I really don't think the wolves could stand such odds; though they might be able to hide among the masses for a while, eventually I expect their luck would run out.

[Naria]

Lmp will be missed, he always showed my the lighter side of my occupation and it always seemed to pull me through another days work with a smile.

Speakin of, I have to say that I honestly hate my job(shouldn't have been so quick to jump on that ad in the Daily Herald).....and the lot of you really need to cut back on your fiber consumption. Always so full of crap and the like. :p

Which reminds me, I don' t trust any of you at this point! Only except of course for my dear mummy, my doting dad(where is he by the way, Mum?) and of course my older sis.

[the phantom]

I won't go into detail now, but there are certain things that will likely define the way the GW and EW post during the day, and we can use those behaviors as a guideline, making it more likely we will lynch the EW than the GW.
I've been giving it some thought and haven't really come up with any good ideas about what sorts of posting may indicate Wizadry.
Oh, I bet you probably have a good idea, it's just that you know you could be wrong because of the bluff factor.

To make a long explanation short (and more simple than it really is), to figure the wizards out, all you have to do is think about what the two wizards fear.

[Naria]

To make a long explanation short (and more simple than it really is), to figure the wizards out, all you have to do is think about what the two wizards fear.

Okay, I'll take a stab at this one Phantom. Would it be eachother?

[Diamond18]

Okay, I'll take a stab at this one Phantom. Would it be eachother?

I think Naria gets the toaster oven (eek, OOC... um, backtracking, rethinking) Naria gets the iron cooking rack.

I was going to say "Spiders?" Also possibly, rats, mice, snakes, leeches, potato bugs, or butterflies. But then, I should have been in bed half an hour ago and my wee little noggin is shot.

[Oddwen]

Ewwwwwww, gross! Poor man! I'll have to keep my chickens locked up good an' safe tonight!

I think mr. the phantom's plan is a good one - though how to go about finding a wizard without using magic is a tough cookie...

That Oddwen has always been a rather strange child as well; can't say I'd quite trust her, nor her aunt, letting her carry on with those antics of hers.

Let her try an' stop me! :P

[the phantom]

(because it's annoying to type his/her him/herself and such all the time, I'll just refer to roles like EW and GW with masculine pronouns- don't read into it)
To make a long explanation short (and more simple than it really is), to figure the wizards out, all you have to do is think about what the two wizards fear.
Okay, I'll take a stab at this one Phantom. Would it be eachother?
Sort of, in the sense that a wizard challenge is the only thing that can kill them, but why should they fear death? They have to die. That's the way this works. So they don't fear death so much as the balance of the village at the time of their death.

The Evil Wizard wants to make lots of wolves. The Good Wizard wants to make lots of gifteds, but can only make a maximum of three. After Night 3, the EW adds to his den every night, but the GW does not. That means that the GW wants the wizard challenge to happen early in the game, therefore he does not fear the mass revelation of his identity. For all he cares, the EW can challenge him now.

And so, since he cannot be lynched, cannot be killed by wolves, and cannot be cursed by the EW, the Good Wizard fears NOTHING!

(other than it taking a long time to find the EW)

The Evil Wizard, on the other hand, does not want to be discovered any time remotely soon. Therefore he fears being lynched, fears being scried, fears being dreamed about by the Seer, and fears choosing the same villager at night as the GW. The Evil Wizard fears EVERYTHING!

[Naria]

I think Naria gets the toaster oven (eek, OOC... um, backtracking, rethinking) Naria gets the iron cooking rack.

Ha ha, it is too laugh!! However, it was a good burn Daffy :D

[Naria]

ThanksPhantom that paints a much clearer picture for me concerning the EW and the GW.

See Daffy, that's all you had to do:p ....I have no use for an Iron cooking rack, my mother does all of the cookery anyway:D

[Naria]

*Tumble weed rolls through the center of town*

Sorry for the triple post, but it seems that I am the only one around right now and as I don't feel like talking to myself at the moment....I will sign off and go to bed.

I will be back in about ten hours or so from now. :)

[the phantom]

Like Naria, I also must take a break. There are a few things that Alca and Cailin want me to take care of at home, and I mustn't disappoint my Mom and Dad.

Plus, I promised Zali I'd cook her dinner tonight, so I've got those preparations to make as well. And don't worry, Diamond, I'll have your little angel back well before nightfall, so there's no need to brandish that fearsome looking battledore.

[Diamond18]

Yes... well, all that about the EW having more to fear than the GW and wanting to stay hidden as long as possible has been discussed as we've been, er, heeding the Watchers prophecy and preparing for the day when the Shadow arrived. The thing that holds me up is wondering how exactly this fear will be apparent in the the EW's posts. Which brings me back around to expecting that the EW will be relatively quiet, banking on slipping just under our watchfulness. Being too quiet is suspicious in and of itself, so we'll be looking for someone riding the middle ground. Problem is, in a village this size, the middle ground will be a vast field full of gopher holes. Nasty little buggers, those. You've got to sneak up from behind and smack them over the heads or... er... I digress.

The only thing my ruminations lead me to is thinking that the EW won't be among the loud players. But then, uh oh, I realize that maybe that's just the sort of logic EW is banking on and he might be trying The Purloined Letter technique instead: hiding in plain sight. Which leaves me with -- the EW could be loud or moderately quiet, ergo, the candidates will consist of a good two thirds of the village.

Finally, I've consulted my Werewolf lorebooks, and they say:

When a red fox and a brown cow frolic in the ocean, you will know who the Wizards are.

Bloody lot of help the lorebooks turned out to be. *chucks lorebooks into the fire*

[Cailín]

My my. That is quite tragic. Elempi dead? He was the only one in this village who made me feel young still, yes indeed he was, and such a kind man too. But all must die, eventually, I suppose, and with my notoriously bad fortune, I would not be surprised if I were next. Yes, yes. Oh, the sadness of it all.

I see one of my most beloved sons has already been trying to take charge of events. Yes, all as expected. Well, that is very well, but let us attempt not to take him so seriously. Extended adventuring has done funny things to his head, I sometimes fear. Though, mind you, Alcarillo and I have raised him very well indeed and there is –I assure you- not a trace of wickedness to be found in the brave lad.

As to what he keeps hidden beneath his cloak, perhaps we should ask Zali about that.

And, considering the charges laid against my other son, I must ask you all to back off. I shall be the one to decide if and when he needs a good lynching. Yes, indeed. Aside from tormenting his poor mother, he has done little wrong in his life. I think. I must confess, it’s hard to keep track of them both sometimes.

It seems to me, truly, that what we as a village should do is trying to aid the Good Wizard in finding the Evil Wizard as soon as possible. Amidst these masses of more or less suspicious people, it would be nearly impossible to find the two fanged ones anyway. Also, those who are guilty today, could be pure as the snow tomorrow. There are only two consistent men or women here… and those are the ones we should watch. I agree with the phantom here: the advantage of the Good Wizard is plainly that he does not fear death. Whether we shall see evidence of this in posting, I cannot tell.

There are more pressing matters to deal with, however. Fea, dear, are you sure you do not wish to remarry? I found such a great match for you. Trust me.

[Gurthang]

That's interesting stuff, phantom. I agree. But with all your knowledge of how wizards think and such, maybe you are one...

So that still leaves us with... not much at all. Maybe a few unlikely plans... some probable wizard thoughts... some baseless accusations. From what I've read in the lorebooks, the ones I could save from the fire anyway *glares at Diamond*, I think that's what usually happens the Day after the first person is killed by wolves. But I'd still feel better if we had a plan.

I think the phantom's onto something, but what can we do with it? It's like Diamond said: the EW will likely be quiet, but of course he knows we'll think that so he'll purposely be loud. And that leads us to double, triple and even more unrealistic levels of bluffing.

I guess we'll have to hope for the best of luck. But now I also must go take a nap, and shortly after that, I'll have to go catch up on all my stable work that I'm getting behind in. *sigh*

[Lhunardawen]

Hmm...this is too much to think about...

I haven't seen this covered in the rules (or I must be really blind)...but are the Wizards allowed to reveal themselves? Outright? To the village?

If not, well, then, we'll really have to come up with a way to expose the Evil Wizard for who he is.

If they are, I wonder if it would be best for the Good Wizard to reveal himself now. Surely the EW would think twice before challenging him to a battle, since, as the phantom said, he would want a lot of werewolves on his side. The werewolves can't kill him by Night anyway. The only problem with this is if someone pulls a bluff.

But I'm not yet really sure what the rule book states.

Anyways, I think this is the best time for us to utilize everything we've learned from history. Surely we know most of the others well enough to guess who the Wizards could be, and who they could have scried/cursed? The best thing for us to do right now is think: If I'm the EW, who would I want to do the kills for me?

I'll let you answer that since I'm not quite prepared to drop names for now. And sure, the EW could have had someone more unique in mind, but the events last Night seems to prove otherwise. They both want the same people. It's up to us to guess who those could have been.

There, my nonsense First Day post.

[Cailín]

I do not think the Good Wizard should reveal himself so hastily. The Evil Wizard has more to fear from a hidden enemy - if he knows which villager fights against him, he could better anticipate his actions.

It's up to the Good Wizard.

As to speculating who the choices were... this village is filled with cunning and talented liars and traitors. I am not sure whether it would be helpful to try answer that question. I could come up with a few names.

What is interesting, however, is that the wizards themselves were chosen and chose to be wizards, too. Something worth remembering, perhaps.

[Lhunardawen]

As to speculating who the choices were... this village is filled with cunning and talented liars and traitors. I am not sure whether it would be helpful to try answer that question. I could come up with a few names.
I'm sure we all do. A lot are talented, but there are only a few who are immensely notable.

But my guess is that even if we have ideas who these people could be, we will be unwilling to lynch them knowing how much help they could be if they were scried. I am reminded (good thing my memory serves me well or else I'll have to chasten my own mother *:)s at Diamond*) by an event in the past when a certain person named Kuruharan was lynched because his fellow villagers were uncertain of his loyalty, though they were loathe to do it for he contributed much. In that case the lynching turned out to be fortunate, since he was cursed. But will we have the will to do it again?


What is interesting, however, is that the wizards themselves were chosen and chose to be wizards, too. Something worth remembering, perhaps.Aye. Who have the most time in their hands? Hmm...

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Mum, Dad? Now where have they disappeared off to? :p You naughty, wayward child! Go to your room! *followed by an admirable gesture of command*

Why don't you try to be like your brother, Gurthang. He was the same age as you when he obtained our clan's bloodline ability. Now he's a . . . stable hand?

Wrong universe, bucko.

Right. Enedwaith, what's all these talk about the Good and Evil Wizard? Haven't you heard of the third Wizard? The unsung hero of the ages?

I AM THE WIZARD OF APATHY.

Now, there's no need to thank me or worship me. I just want to read your posts in peace, before I vote for . . .

You think I'd vote for myself, now that I have a family? You must have boulders in your head!!!

Oh, yes, you still will. You can't resist it.

We'll see about that . . .

[Cailín]

Aye. Who have the most time in their hands? Hmm...

Gurthang. Does he ever sleep at all? ;)

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I rather agree with Gurthang about going after the Wizards, preferably the Evil one.

And so, since he cannot be lynched, cannot be killed by wolves, and cannot be cursed by the EW, the Good Wizard fears NOTHING! Still, the GW is concerned to leave the Village with three Gifteds when the time of the Wizards' battle comes.

The EW may want to make as many wolves as s/he can before the Wizards kill one another, but then again, the more there are Wolves the easier it is to find one. At that point the Wolves already know each other and killing one will hopefully give us clues to catch the rest of them, too.

I think it's a bigger blow to the Village to be left without all three Gifteds and fewer wolves than with a fully functioning trio of gifts and a wolf or two more.

Now, phantom makes the situation sound pretty bright for us, but that's what the Evil Wizard would like to do; to make the Villagers believe that we don't have much to be scared of. I agree that if we accidentally stumble across the GW, it's not a fatal error, but then the EW has the ability to decide when it's time to get back to the basic WW again, and that could be a big advantage.

What is interesting, however, is that the wizards themselves were chosen and chose to be wizards, too. Something worth remembering, perhaps. Indeed.

[Lhunardawen]

dancing spawn, you had me thinking.

You're right. I'm sure the EW would rather have his wolves not know each other to make it easier for them to slip past us. So, again, we can say that he fears death.

But for the innocents, we'd want to have all gifteds and wolves who know each other: regular Werewolf dynamics. So it would serve us best to have the Wizards done with, even the GW so long as he has given out all gifts.

It's entirely up to the GW, but I think it would be a good idea for him to reveal himself (again, if this is legal) once all the gifts have been assigned. If the EW won't call him out to battle, at least we'll have someone trustworthy to follow.

And now that I've thought of it, bluffing as the GW won't work, either.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I've to go, since I've got a memoir to write. It's called the Book of Nilpaurion and it'll be available in bookstores Yavannië neldë.

I'm pretty confident about my vote, though.

++Nogrod

Surprise, surprise! Not a self-vote! See you tomorrow, I hope. :)

[Celuien]

Nilp didn't vote for himself? I think I'll faint. :p

Some interesting things have happened since I was away. Will return in a bit with thoughts.

[Lhunardawen]

I shouldn't even be here this late. Next time I hope you're ready for really early votes. Like seven hours into the game.

Now, hmm. I'm tempted to vote for Nilp 'cause he voted for my dad. That, and he didn't vote for himself.

Aha!

++EOMER OF THE ROHIRRIM

because he has a great propensity for evil. And he left me just when I was prepared to marry him. Take this! :p

[The Saucepan Man]

This is a terrible blow to our village, and my thoughts are with Diamond18 and her kin. A sad loss indeed. And now, we have to do our best to find the culprits, as the Watchers have bade us do. I am sorry that I have not been able to contribute so far, but my duties at the tavern have kept me busy.

I bid you all come to the Salty Seal, where we may discuss these things in comfort and with a drink to strengthen our spirits. I shall not charge thee on a day such as this (provided you do not seek to take advantage).

Were I to let petty vengeances guide my thoughts, I would be looking towards mormegil and Eomer. Mormegil has always thought his daughter too good for a lowly innkeeper such as me and has never approved of the match. And Eomer, the rogue, is presumptious enough to court my beloved daugher, Kitanna, without first seeking my permission.

Yet it is not village affairs that have guided the Evil Wizard’s hand, I am sure, but cold, hard logic. And that is what I intend to use to counter him (or her).

As others have intimated, we must bear in mind that these beasts were not randomly chosen, as in the tales of old, but hand selected by the Evil Wizard. Were I him, I would not have chosen those who, by virtue of their reputation or ancestry, were likely to be the subject of a Seerish dream on the first Night or who are likely targets for a lynching on the first Day. On this basis, a number of villagers can, I think,be discounted as unlikely choices by the Evil Wizard.

And, much as I would like to see the back of him for his antagonistic behaviour and insufferable gloating, I doubt that Loki would have been a great choice for the Evil Wizard. His reputation, even before this Day, makes him a quite likely candidate for lynching. Then again, one motive for claiming to be the de-Werewolved villager would be to divert attention from himself. If that was his intention, then it has backfired. Nevertheless, I will disegard him for today, based on my reasoning above.

Were I the Evil Wizard, I would have chosen from the following villagers:

Cailín, Lalaith, Caranlondien, Celuien, Valier, Kitanna, Azaelia or Naria, Oddwen, Alcarillo, Roa, Firefoot, Diamond and Gurthang.

That doesn’t narrow things down as much as I would like. However, I suspect that the Evil Wizard, if applying his or her mind, will have selected villagers with different styles. Based on my knowledge of them, and the tales of their ancestors’ exploits, I would divide them as follows, and assume that the Evil Wizard would select one Wolf from each grouping:

1 of Cailín, Lalaith, Caranlondien or Celuien
1 of Valier, Kitanna, Azaelia or Naria, Oddwen, or Alcarillo
1 of Roa, Firefoot, Diamond or Gurthang

One Wolf, we know, was turned back, which paradoxically makes things more difficult, even if my reasoning is on course (and there’s no guarantee that it is, or that the Evil Wizard would think like me).

And of course, that does not help us find the Evil Wizard and I agree that anything that we can do to unmask him (or her) will be worthwhile. More thoughts on that anon.

[The Saucepan Man]

Gurthang was, I think, the first to bring up the idea of looking for the Wizards. My initial reaction was to suspect him for it. I still do, slightly, since he was talking about finding both Wizards. I think we should, as far as we can, try to avoid identifying the Good Wizard, at this stage at least. With no Gifteds and two Wolves to hide among a great number of villagers, the Evil Wizard might fancy his/her chances at this point and call the Good Wizard out. Even if s/he does not, identifying the GW would still allow the EW to pick his/her time, provided s/he remains hidden. For this reason, I am also wary of Lhuna’s suggestion that the GW might want to declare today.

The plan has, however, been somewhat refined since Gurthang’s initial suggestion. As the phantom and others have helpfully pointed out (and it speaks in their favour), the GW and the EW have different objectives, different fears and therefore, in all likelihood, will exhibit different styles.

The difficulty in spotting the EW is that s/he will be doing his/her best to remain hidden and not to stir up controversy. Or at least to behave as we would expect him/her to, so as not to draw attention to him/herself. That in itself may help us in finding him/her.


What is interesting, however, is that the wizards themselves were chosen and chose to be wizards, too. Something worth remembering, perhaps.This perhaps is the best thing we have to go on at the moment. It applies, of course, to both Wizards, and so we must be careful that it does not lead us to reveal the Good Wizard. Yet each will have been selected to be either Good or Evil, so there may be something to go on here.

I must, alas, depart for a few hours, but I hope to return in a few hours.

[Glirdan]

I am here at last. It's been a long day for myself. Poor Elempi. I couldn't get the picture of his body out of my head so I ran to my favorite thinking spot to cool down.

Now, seeing as I just got here, I really don't know what's going on, excpet that my beloved Kath has been here. But where is she? I don't see her smiling face in the crowd.

But it is getting late for me, so I think I'd better pack myself off to bed before I get grounded. Til tomorrow (RL)!

Ahhh! Now I understand! I suffer from this same fatal illness, which is another reason why I have not come in until now.

Now I see that I have a lot to go over and I shall so I will be back with my thoughts shortly.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

The difficulty in spotting the EW is that s/he will be doing his/her best to remain hidden and not to stir up controversy. Or at least to behave as we would expect him/her to, so as not to draw attention to him/herself. That in itself may help us in finding him/her. I think that depends on who the EW is. If it is someone who's usually a loudmouth, it would look mighty suspicious if they suddenly started acting very subtly.

I doubt that Loki would have been a great choice for the Evil Wizard. Well, usually the villagers are ready to give a newcomer the benefit of doubt, a Seer won't usually bother to dream of someone completely new and depending on who the Wizards are, I think it's possible that the idea of making Loki a Wolf intrigued the EW. However, if Loki speaks the truth, I don't have a clue. I could presume that even if he was chosen by the EW, he's not necessarily the one that the GW chose, too.


Aside of Wizard matters, I find there to be something odd in Lhuna's behaviour.
Firstly, I don't agree with her suggestion that the GW might want to reveal themselves now. Well, that's not a crime, per se, I know a lot of people disagree with my logics and may be quite right in doing so, but I think we should even try to find the EW before the GW steps forward. Now that the GW has no Gifteds on his/her side, and there are two wolves among 30 villagers, the numbers wouldn't be very favourable for us.

She poses a question asking for names for possible wolves, but refuses to answer herself. Then she pulls out an example of a situation where a big-name villager was lynched with profitable consequences even though he contributed much. Lhuna wonders if we have the courage to do it in this Village, too. I'm not sure what to think of this. Yes, it's probable that the Wizards are people with some kind of a reputation, and yes, if someone usually helpful Villager looks very suspicious, then it's our duty to try to find out if there's some reason to it regardless of their contributions, but the way Lhuna says this makes me uneasy.

Then she suggests that the GW reveals themselves as soon as they have made three Gifteds. What's the hurry? Let's see what the situation is when we get there. When we don't make any firm plans yet, the Evil team can't base their startegy on the possible flaws of the Good team's plan. A vote follows for Eomer based on astrology, or something, and because of relationships.


Now, seeing as I just got here, I really don't know what's going on, excpet that my beloved Kath has been here. But where is she? I don't see her smiling face in the crowd. I believe her dad told her to go to her room.

[Thinlómien]

Alas for the gentle old man! He was one of the few villagers that gave me candy voluntarily!

Remember also that in this game the wizards can choose who fight in their sides. I doubt they'd not choose good players.

If I were the EW I would choose wolves from the intelligent, but not really really respected and feared players. People that wouldn't be suspected because "ah, x is so cunning person, the EW must have chosen him/her" or be lynched because "better to see him/her dead before the EW picks him/her". I would choose players like: Roa (sorry momma), Gurthang, Diamond, Nogrod, Kath, Lhuna, Kitanna, Caílin and Lalaith. I guess I'm along quite the same lines with SPM here (if I understood him correctly).

I agree that we should try to find the EW, but we can't focus our search only on him/her, otherwise he just laughs by him/herself (I agree with the people who say EW will be a quite silent hider) and increases the wolf amount until they kill us all.

One thing I advise people to remember too is that the wolves will be much more difficult to find this time since they can't be caught from slimy co-operation, since they don't know each other.

edit: x-posted with my brother and Mrs. Felagund

[Cailín]

Interesting list, Saucepan Man.

However, we might assume the Evil Wizard does not follow your train of thought. Logically, the Good Wizard would scry those whom he believes likely to be the Evil Wizard. And likely candidates for that profession are generally those you deliberately excluded from your list. At least, that is what I suspect. Since the Good Wizard and the Evil Wizard chose the same person… could it be possible that they indeed would go for those villagers with a horrible reputation haunting them?

I am still trying to come to terms with this all.

In the meantime, how come Nilpaurion did not vote for himself? I find this very worrisome – yet his marriage to fair Dancing Spawn may have given him renewed joy in life.

Lhunardawen is definitely suspicious. The minute Eomer left, she just marries someone from another village and that entirely without my interference. A very displeasing sort of independence. Oh and she made a pitiful suggestion as well.

Edit: cross-posted with Spawn and Lommy.

[Cailín]

I am not really respected? Indeed, what insolence is that? ;)

[Glirdan]

Glirdan ~ Owl.(Diamond)

This is an interesting thought my friend, however, you are completely mistaken. I do not have wings and I cannot turn my head in a full circle.

Caran ~ The eldest child of Roa and Sleepy, obviously prone to bouts of uncontrollable evil, and with parents like that, who can blame her? Still, she's just your ordinary psychopath. Can't find any traces of fur on her.

Lommy ~ Another one of them Roa/Sleepy spawn. This one's clearly got hair sprouting in all the wrong places.

And why, may I ask, are you attacking my siblings? What has my family ever done to yours to deserve this kind of treatment?

I agree with all those who believe that Loki is quiet...what's the word I'm looking for? Ahh! Yes! Shady.

I doubt that Loki would have been a great choice for the Evil Wizard.

I actually must differ on this. Because Loki is a newcommer, it is quite possible that the EW wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt and let him try his hand at having a special role. The GW could very well have predicted this and decided to change him back for this. However, can we take his word that he was the un-changed one? Because I really don't think I can. He's been a little too offensive and all over rules of the game. This makes me very uneasy about him.

I'm off for the time being, but if you need me, don't be hesitant to call.

xed with the three above

[Thinlómien]

I think that depends on who the EW is. If it is someone who's usually a loudmouth, it would look mighty suspicious if they suddenly started acting very subtly. A good point I didn't think about. Finding the EW might be even trickier than I imagined it'd be. *sigh*

Cailín's post got me thinking. I know I'm starting my endless flow-of-consciousness posting (or to but it bluntly, flip-flopping) now, but I can't help thinking that the EW might have actually chosen these "big guys" since he/she might predict that we make the kind of assumptions of intelligent-but-not-big-guys -players as I did in my last post. It seems that the theory is quite basic since it occured to me without much thinking, so I think the EW would try to avoid such predictable choices.

If you ask, which of my theories I myself support (which is a fair question) I can say "no idea" since, I need more thinking to find a solution that makes sense. These are just thoughts.

[Gurthang]

But for the innocents, we'd want to have all gifteds and wolves who know each other: regular Werewolf dynamics. So it would serve us best to have the Wizards done with, even the GW so long as he has given out all gifts.


This was more or less my line of thought when I first said we needed to find one (preferably the Evil) wizard. One can't die without the other also doing so, and finding either one may help speed up when their simultaneous(sp?) deaths occur, thus leaving us with less werewolves to deal with.

Saucepan, you are basically thinking along the same lines that I was. At least saying that wizards would choose someone who is unlikely to be lynched early and either unlikely to be dreamed of or unlikely to be killed by werewolves.

Which is, ironically, saying that we should be looking for those of less 'ww repute'. Not a pleasant thing to be accusing people of. In fact, I'm entirely offended that I am even considered on you list. :p ( ;) )

But alas, I really must get back to my stable handing... :rolleyes: Which means a vote. Let's see what I can rummage together.

Here:

++Thinlómien

since she comes last aphabetically in the 'list' I made up earlier.

[Gurthang]

However, we might assume the Evil Wizard does not follow your train of thought. Logically, the Good Wizard would scry those whom he believes likely to be the Evil Wizard.

I don't necessarily think so. I'd think the GW would, at first, be concerned with making gifteds that would do their job well. I mean, after all, even if the GW finds the EW, he won't want to challenge him with no gifteds made.

Also, spawn is making some good points about Lhuna. But now I really must go.

[Firefoot]

Which is, ironically, saying that we should be looking for those of less 'ww repute'. Not a pleasant thing to be accusing people of. Less repute, or people who just generally don't arouse a lot of suspicion. Which is why I'm not surprised to be on SpM's list. People don't like to lynch me. And on this list of people, I probably would not be one of the first seer dreams, either.

So despite my being on it, I rather agree with SpM's proposition. Even if it only does only knock out about half the people, I think it's a good place to start - at least for Day 1. (Hopefully SpM is not the EW...)

[Thinlómien]

I would rather not have people voting preventively, with reasons "oh, the EW might have chosen him/her, since s/he is so xxx" or "s/he's too dangerous if s/he is turned into a lycantrophe, let's kill him/her". That's so wrong that it screams.

I think we should preferably look at the actions of people (I know it's difficult on day 1), since we really can't predict the wizard tactics (or at least I can't). Spawn has made interesting observations on Lhuna. I think she's a good example of how we should/could play.

I fear we might be blinded by our expectations and presumptions on what the EW would do.

edit: x-posted with Firefoot and Gurthang's newer post

[Diamond18]

Well, I'm glad to see I'm not going to be the first out of the voting blocks, I thought that by voting a good 9 hours early I'd be kicking things off. But, what's all this?


I'm pretty confident about my vote, though.

++Nogrod

Attacking my hubby, eh? Lynching my jester, eh? Battledores, attack!

Actually, I can't fault you too much. There were a few things that felt a little off about my Noggie before he disappeared (wherever DID he go?) and that fact alone is very odd for him. He's usually in the thick of it.... Morm is another one who has been more quiet than I'm used to, as the mayor of our fine town he usually has quite a bit to say about the affairs therein. I have not the time to count the exact number of times he has spoken up, but I think it was just the once. Very odd.

However, I'm not voting for either of those chaps.

+ + LOKI

Maybe he's the one scried by the GW, but then again, maybe he ain't.

Frankly, there is no one else at this early point that I'd rather see gone. Without more than niggling suspicions I don't feel comfortable campaigning for the death of any of my family and friends, so yes, Loki is getting the outsider vote. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt (I've never voted for a first timer before) if it weren't for his general churlishness.

And now, I must bit good day and head off to the battledore shop. The demand for battledores in this village is ridiculous, everyone must have really dusty rugs. In fact, I'll be spending the afternoon beating rugs. What a fun thought.

I am sorry to my family that I won't be able to do as I'd hoped, that is, help spare you at a crticial time if anyone tries to lynch you. But being the provider for this family (I'm wondering now why my husband gets to retire while I continue to toil!) I cannot slack off and let them go hungry. If I do that the terror... er, I mean, werewolves... will have won!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Piracy? Well, I have sailed on numerous voyages to distant and debatable lands; and, like most people, I've dabbled in a bit of jewel-trading. That's all in the past, though. Mormegil, venerable man, and Good Saucepan Man and beautiful Lady Celuien, I meant not to show disrespect to your family; but Kitanna and I, our destiny is to be together! Won't you bless us? Because, you know, this village might only last a few more days, and weddings are mighty complicated to arrange.

Wizards, eh? Well, it would appear that someone in this village is especially desirable: wanted by both sorcerers. Who is that desirable? For the EW primarily wants his wolves, and the GW wants a good gifted as well as the EW.

An all-round talented player, who is confident enough to school him/herself in magic [read: asked to be a wizard]

To my mind, that narrows it down. I've found a couple of these early votes to be somewhat inappropriate.

[Celuien]

Piracy? Well, I have sailed on numerous voyages to distant and debatable lands; and, like most people, I've dabbled in a bit of jewel-trading. That's all in the past, though. Mormegil, venerable man, and Good Saucepan Man and beautiful Lady Celuien, I meant not to show disrespect to your family; but Kitanna and I, our destiny is to be together! Won't you bless us? Because, you know, this village might only last a few more days, and weddings are mighty complicated to arrange.
You've quite a long way to go, young man, ere I will lend my support to your cause. Though I will confess, I am not wholly unsympathetic, my own romance having been frowned upon in my younger days. We shall see.
The difficulty in spotting the EW is that s/he will be doing his/her best to remain hidden and not to stir up controversy. Or at least to behave as we would expect him/her to, so as not to draw attention to him/herself. That in itself may help us in finding him/her.
That does seem the wisest move for the EW. As the phantom pointed out, once found, the GW may have good reason to call an early challenge and prevent werewolf population expansion. Though I would not expect a too early challenge.

We still have no gifteds. But after night four, when the gifted population could be complete and the werewolves have reached (let me count now: 2 currently, one added toNIGHT (and one gifted), 3 tomorrow night and one more added (two gifteds) and 4 the night after, plus one more (three gifteds)) for 5 wolves to 3 gifteds, then the time might be right for a challenge. Assuming that the wizards don't choose the same villager again, of course, and that no un-gifting/cursing occurs.

To make it even more difficult to flush out the EW, we can't even count on a defense of his/her creatures from him/her. The wolves s/he curses are expendable so long as the wolf under attack isn't the last one. Killed wolves can be replaced overnight, so why bother to save them in the day and risk a self-exposure?

I hesitate to discuss wizard spotting strategies further since they could equally be applied to the GW. While the phantom has a point about the GW having little to fear, I for one would not want to risk inadvertently exposing the GW to the EW prematurely.

Now, I'm not really excited about voting for anyone who has been proposed so far. While I'm itching to give that rascally Loki a piece of my mind (:p), I'm unwilling to vote for him before he has a chance to prove himself in the village. I am puzzled a little by his declaration, since I find its veracity lacking, but it seems an unwolf like thing to do as it guarantees attention. I think that, like his trickster namesake, he's sowing confusion. Which irritates me, but is not grounds for me to vote for him. Yet.

Now I must be off. My store of herbs is low and needs replenishing. I'll return in a few hours.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

There are more pressing matters to deal with, however. Fea, dear, are you sure you do not wish to remarry? I found such a great match for you. Trust me.
I was rather enjoying being single. Still... who might it be?

I would rather not have people voting preventively, with reasons "oh, the EW might have chosen him/her, since s/he is so xxx" or "s/he's too dangerous if s/he is turned into a lycantrophe, let's kill him/her". That's so wrong that it screams.
At the risk of dying early, I have to say that this is a pretty good idea and shouldn't be discounted due to dubious morality. Why leave those around that you trust that much less than others? Then again, it's rather reassuring to have people around that you don't trust because at least then you aren't totally without target. Whichever way, don't be so quick to deny possible strategies; it makes you look nervous.

I also agree with whomever it was that mentioned searching out the wizards. It gives us a legitimate project for day one. It will put them off guard. Sure, it would mean sacrificing the good wizard in all probability, but since the good wizard lives to die in such a way, I won't feel too badly about it. Consider: who would expect that an entire village would gang up on their wizards? Surely we would want to keep our good wizard around. Blah blah pros and cons blah blah. With the pressure of an entire village actively seeking, the evil wizard will have to be REALLY good to avoid screwing up.

Since we can't get rid of our evil'uns until the evil wizard is gone, it's in our best interest to kill him/her as quickly as possible.

As for me... I'll be in and out over the next few hours until I have to go [tend sheep]. I can't guarantee that I won't disappear again... I hope more than you can imagine that I won't, but I can't guarantee it.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

What's the point in saying "I trust so-and-so"? I'm assuming this refers to thinking like "I trust Loki less than I trust Saucepan Man". Where does this get us? In this village, at this moment, it is totally irrelevant.

Maybe I just misunderstand what you are saying, Fea.

Now, I'm just saying, that if I were a wizard, of any persuasion, I would have chosen Lalaith. She's my number one pick for the wolf-who-was-cured. And I base that on pretty much nothing but a feeling. :p

I'm just saying.

[JennyHallu]

Well I'm back, I've read over everything and have decided that I need to go read over some things more carefully. I'll probably be voting between 4 and 5 hours early, so be warned. It seems it has taken us a good 12 hours to come to the conclusion that we ought to out the Evil Wizard, which is certainly slow moving for a village of so many souls.

I have had a few thoughts: In the first post, Loki claimed to be the reclaimed wolf, but SPM, you didn't even mention that in your "lists", making up three possible wolf teams that did not include Loki at all. That struck me as odd, if not a little careless coming from you. My poor Celuien! Whyever did she marry you?

I hate to admit it, as I love to disagree with a particular supernatural phenomenon, but his analysis of the motivations and fears of each of the Wizards makes a good deal of sense, and seem very well thought out indeed. Thank you, one among many semi-anonymous ghouls.

Now I wish to read more closely the ruminations of Nogrod, the Fool. Be back with more thoughts.

[Thinlómien]

At the risk of dying early, I have to say that this is a pretty good idea and shouldn't be discounted due to dubious morality. Why leave those around that you trust that much less than others? Then again, it's rather reassuring to have people around that you don't trust because at least then you aren't totally without target. Whichever way, don't be so quick to deny possible strategies; it makes you look nervous.I didn't say we should rightaway discard the tactic, I just said in my opinion we should preferably look at the actions of the people, not at the people themselves. I repeat that I'm afraid that if we start to use only one viewpoint we won't get very far and in the worst scenario we'll be blind to what really is going on and who is who.

I'm afraid the EW is reading this thread and laughing. This confusion serves him/her very well, I fear.

And who wouldn't be nervous in a maniac game like this?

edit: x-posted with Jenny

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

The point is, there are some players that, when wolf and when innocent, act noticably different. There are some players that you are more confident in your ability to gague. And there are some that you will never understand regardless of anything pertaining to anything else. Mormegil, for instance: if he's a wolf, we're screwed; we'll never know... it would be mere whim that would ever have us catch the dear.

See what I mean? If you kill the players that you are completely uncertain that you'll ever be able to nail down in any situation, you'll simplify your own life.

Of course, the village would be more boring without them, but you might keep your sanity longer.

[Eonwe]

Well, I am here, after a long journey from my woodlands cottage.

I've browsed the thread and read snippets here and there, but didn't really find much to interest me, except for this:

This includes Nogrod, Lhuna, Zali, Firefoot, and if he's a really good boy, Eonwe.

You see Mom, I'm a good little boy, a good little boy...

Anyway, I'll try me best. :D

I haven't much to post right now, but I promise to actually read the thread right after this post and come back with something or other.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I didn't say we should rightaway discard the tactic, I just said in my opinion we should preferably look at the actions of the people, not at the people themselves.
But some people act really weird. Always. You can't trust actions. You can trust that there are some people you'll never trust.

I like my logic. I dunno about you guys.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Mormegil, for instance: if he's a wolf, we're screwed; we'll never know... it would be mere whim that would ever have us catch the dear.Well, the GW or the Seer, once we get one, could find that out pretty easily. At this point I think it's better to concentrate on those who we find suspicious of wolvery or wicked wizardry than to those who are potential threats if turned a wolf.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

At this point I think it's better to concentrate on those who we find suspicious of wolvery or wicked wizardry than to those who are potential threats if turned a wolf.
I disagree. The end.

It's the first day. Nothing is conclusive but that which we know from our "lorebooks" and our experiences with our fellow villagers.

hits head on table knowing that this argument will get me killed

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

And why am I even arguing this? It was a comment. My actual advice wasn't to kill people on whim (or Morm would be dead because I hold grudges for my ancestors :p) but to search for wizards!

[Glirdan]

Fea, I understand what you are getting out and, in some wierd way, it makes sense. In my book of lore of past Werewolf Villages, I've noticed that some people will always act the same. Whether they're innocent, Gifted or Cursed, they will always act the same. I am like that myself and I've noticed the same with SpM and morm. So, to restate what Fea said, it's dangerous to go by how people act.

x-posted with those above

[Kitanna]

Kitanna ~ Will eat her beau for midnight snack before the game is over.
Diamond, how ever did you learn my plan?

Loki seems to have gathered some suspicion around himself.
I am, obviously, the best pick(And, being newest to the forums) and least suspicious of the group. Chances are good that I would not have been considered to be anything evil and wrong... just yet
This caught my eye when I first read it and then I see Nogrod also feels this comment needs to be watched. Nogrod also mentioned Loki's "wolfish" defense of himself ofone little comment made. I'm not really concerned about that it's his first game and Day one. It's not all that surprising he's a bit jumpy. But the comment above has me worried. What exactly is Loki trying to tell us? Trying to taunt us?
I merely remarked that being new to the game would make me appear to be rather UN-canine in nature. A very good choice to curse, if you would. However, if you do so wish to ignore this offer of insight upon the thought processes of those who had attempted to transmogrify me, be it well on yourself. Think of it as me being a wolf. It's your bloody loss, villager. Unless, of course, you are a wolf, and turning suspicions on me is naught but a not-so-clever scheme to remove suspicions from yourself. Bear in mind, lycanthrope, that when I am lynched, eyes will turn upon thee...
An open challenge to Nogrod? And he says "when" he's lynched, not "if" he's lynched.
Also Loki says since this is his first game he is less likely to be accussed of wolvery. Not true in my opinion and saying that only brings more suspicion on him.

But moving on the plan Gurthang set forth and phantom elaborated on is a good one.
Now, phantom makes the situation sound pretty bright for us, but that's what the Evil Wizard would like to do; to make the Villagers believe that we don't have much to be scared of.
A terrifying idea. Phantom the EW? I'd rather not think about it. The plan is still a good one and the things the EW should fear still hold true.

Well I really must run now, but I shall return in an hour or so to contribute some more.

[Thinlómien]

So, to restate what Fea said, it's dangerous to go by how people act. Yes, and it's dangerous to go by the personalities of the people. Werewolf is always dangerous, whatever method we use. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I still stick to my earlier comment and agree with dancing spawn's latest post.

Fea, you say you'd like to spot the EW. Have you got any theories how would s/he be acting? Or any candidates worth mentioning?

[Caranlondien]

The voting thus far:
1. Nilp --> Nogrod (Nogrod 1)
2. Lhuna --> Eomer (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1)
3. Gurthang --> Lommy (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1)
4. Diamond --> Loki (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 1)

I know the Day is young yet and these votes may give little indication as to how the Day will end, but I need to start the list for my own sanity. What with such a large village, I very quickly begin to forget who's voted for whom.

Now, as for the talk so far, I've chimed in with my opinion (that we ought to look for the EW). I don't think, though, that the GW should declare him/herself. It's up to his/her discretion when to declare, and until then, it's best to stay hidden, in case the EW gets into a good position to challenge before the GW does.

My own suspicions? Well, Loki's behavior seems strange. By "strange behavior", just to clarify, I mean the subtley made claim that he was cursed and un-cursed, and his somewhat abrasive reactions to people's passing comments. However, my suspicions of him may be mainly just because I can't find anyone else to suspect. He's the only one who has really stood out so far, and that itself casts him in slightly a better light, as it would be risky for a wolf to stand out that way.

I also find Lhuna's suggestion about the GW revealing him/herself slightly odd. It doesn't seem like a good idea to me (see above).

OOC Note: Cross-posted with a bunch of people, as I've been working on this on and off for a while due to a rather interesting computer situation...

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Well, the GW or the Seer, once we get one, could find that out pretty easily. At this point I think it's better to concentrate on those who we find suspicious of wolvery or wicked wizardry than to those who are potential threats if turned a wolf.I disagree.
My actual advice wasn't to kill people on whim (or Morm would be dead because I hold grudges for my ancestors :p) but to search for wizards!
Isn't that agreeing then? :p

Anyway...

I have had a few thoughts: In the first post, Loki claimed to be the reclaimed wolf, but SPM, you didn't even mention that in your "lists", making up three possible wolf teams that did not include Loki at all. That struck me as odd, if not a little careless coming from you.I had to go back to look if that's really true. Sauce actually said this,
And, much as I would like to see the back of him for his antagonistic behaviour and insufferable gloating, I doubt that Loki would have been a great choice for the Evil Wizard. His reputation, even before this Day, makes him a quite likely candidate for lynching. Then again, one motive for claiming to be the de-Werewolved villager would be to divert attention from himself. If that was his intention, then it has backfired. Nevertheless, I will disegard him for today, based on my reasoning above. but I would have been interested to hear a bit more about this from him than that he's just disregarding Loki because he doesn't believe that the EW would have picked him.

A terrifying idea. Phantom the EW? I'd rather not think about it. The plan is still a good one and the things the EW should fear still hold true. I'm not saying that he's the EW, but I'd rather consider all options than blindly trust him. Besides, why would he make flawed theories and lie? I've heard enough of his ancestors not to be too swift to declare him innocent.

[Cailín]

I was rather enjoying being single. Still... who might it be?

Why, Fea, who else but Mormegil? He has been a widow for too long, which is making him very peevish and with all these things going on, someone should keep an eye on him. And you two have so much in common. What do you say, now?

I do not really get your plan, by the way, as it seems you are contradicting yourself. I am all for finding the Evil Wizard and will gladly sacrifice both my sons in the search of this mastermind ( :p ), but we cannot just lynch them randomly because they are amusing.

It's a dilemma, certainly. In a large village such as this one, the silent ones will easily escape our notice, thus making them possible dangerous enemies. And when we have gotten rid of the wizards, we don't want all clever men and women dead and buried already. On the other hand, the EW is perhaps the cleverest of all. Should we sacrifice the intelligent ones in our search for the ultimate baddie? Meh. I don't know.

---

I also must say that I do not really understand your reasoning concerning Loki, Celuien. If sowing confusion purposedly is not reason enough to get you lynched on Day one, what is?

You think Lalaith as most desirable, Eomer? My guess of the Day is Firefoot. However, that is fairly irrelevant.

I'm not saying that he's the EW, but I'd rather consider all options than blindly trust him. Besides, why would he make flawed theories and lie? I've heard enough of his ancestors not to be too swift to declare him innocent.

What are you trying to imply, here?

However, though I should not be pointing fingers at him, if anyone is likely to have indulged in the arts of magic -though I cannot say whether any success was had- it might perhaps be... Well, I would never say that aloud, of course.

[the phantom]

I don't think, though, that the GW should declare him/herself. It's up to his/her discretion when to declare, and until then, it's best to stay hidden, in case the EW gets into a good position to challenge before the GW does.
I also find Lhuna's suggestion about the GW revealing him/herself slightly odd. It doesn't seem like a good idea to me
I think it's a bigger blow to the Village to be left without all three Gifteds and fewer wolves than with a fully functioning trio of gifts and a wolf or two more.
I find there to be something odd in Lhuna's behaviour.
Firstly, I don't agree with her suggestion that the GW might want to reveal themselves now...
Now that the GW has no Gifteds on his/her side, and there are two wolves among 30 villagers, the numbers wouldn't be very favourable for us.
No. I completely disagree with you guys. There is nothing wrong with Lhuna asking the GW to reveal. He doesn't fear a wizard challenge now. It's better for the village (worse for the EW) to have 2 wolves versus nearly thirty innocents than it is to have 10 wolves, 3 gifteds, and 10 innocents, so just because we don't have gifteds does not mean the wolves have a greater advantage now.

Honestly, what are the odds of one of the two wolves surviving down to the end? Pretty darn low.

Anyone who is saying or thinking that the EW may want to challenge soon is off their rocker. The EW wants things to drag on as long as possible. The EW WILL NOT CHALLENGE EARLY.

He will wait and wait and wait, and will only challenge if he has several wolves and gets lucky during the night (he ungifts someone or his wolves kill a gifted or two- that would be the perfect time to challenge).

Here's a bit more yapping and strategy from me...

The GW is bound to be discovered by the time the population favors the EW (he can be discovered through lynching, wolf kill, or EW curse). In addition, the GW wants to preserve his gifteds and lynch wolves, therefore he will feel considerable pressure to step forward and provide the village with safe lynch candidates.

There is nothing for the GW to fear right now, and odds say he won't escape detection long enough for it to be profitable, not to mention there is the risk of losing his gifteds in the daily lynch without his guidance.

The GW WILL REVEAL himself by the end of Day 3, or at the latest Day 4 (could be as early as tomorrow). Revealing himself is the logical thing to do. Each day he will lead our lynch mob. He will provide two or three candidates whom he knows aren't gifted or Seer-dreamed-innocent, and we will pick from them. He will also take all of his scry info and the Seer's dream info and pass it to at least one other gifted besides the Seer so that even when he is gone all knowledge will be preserved in at least two individuals.

It is also possible that one wolf will be held back as a Hunter target. In other words, if the Seer finds a Wolf tonight, the GW will leave him alone and will not try and uncurse him or get him lynched, but instead pass that wolf's name to the Hunter in case the Hunter is killed. That way, he'll have a guaranteed wolf kill.

That could be very valuable late in the game. If there are only a couple wolves left and the Hunter is the last of the gifteds, he could go ahead and reveal himself, tell the village outright the results of all Seer dreams and GW scries up to that point (but leave out the identity of the known wolf), and then that night when the wolves slay him he takes one of them down.
A terrifying idea. Phantom the EW? I'd rather not think about it.
Actually, I don't think it's that terrifying. What are the odds that I will escape the attention of both the GW and the Seer? Not too high. Phantom=EW would lead to a resounding villager victory, I assure you.

Lastly, I have decided to blindly trust Sauce until the Wizards die. As I said earlier, Sauce and I both might be attractive wolves for the EW to pick, but he would want to do it late in the game. And even then it would be risky.

I'm going to trust the GW and Seer to take care of Sauce, and listen to what he has to say.

That's all I have time for right now. I have a bit of business to attend to. I'll be back later.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Fea, you say you'd like to spot the EW. Have you got any theories how would s/he be acting? Or any candidates worth mentioning?
Several theories, nobody I feel the need to reveal.

However let's use our lorebooks, shall we? The recently published ones pertaining to activities that may take place on holiday from the village.

The evil wizard (okay... speaking plainly now...) volunteered for the job. The evil wizard, ergo, is somebody with a bit of time on his or her hands at the moment. The evil wizard is probably not going to be one of the students playing with finals coming up. The evil wizard is probably not going to be somebody that can't guarantee specific hours during the day in which to take care of wizarding business. The evil wizard (and the good, yes, the good) are going to be players with a bit of time to spare.

Remember that when accusing. "Yes, this person looks suspicious. Maybe a wolf, but since this, this, and this are happening in his/her life, what is the likelihood that s/he would volunteer for a time-consuming position?"

Think about it. It's no guarantee, but it's a good thing to keep in mind.

I want to remind people not to take Loki for granted. S/he's a new player and seems to be making mistakes in terms of surmising how we do this. But I'm fascinated by our trickster and I don't think we should assume him/her to be making silly mistakes. Keep in mind that all statements could very well be planned.

Don't discount anything. This statement is not for any one player or about any one player. Don't assume anything.

Why, Fea, who else but Mormegil?
The way the two of us bicker? I rather think the village would prefer we stay bitter single folk.

And as to the phantom being the evil wizard? He can't be. So say I.

[Oddwen]

I would rather not have people voting preventively, with reasons "oh, the EW might have chosen him/her, since s/he is so xxx" or "s/he's too dangerous if s/he is turned into a lycantrophe, let's kill him/her". That's so wrong that it screams.

I think we should preferably look at the actions of people (I know it's difficult on day 1), since we really can't predict the wizard tactics (or at least I can't). Good advice...'cuz what are we gonna do, kill anyone with destructive potentail? That's everyone! Though...hmm, mass lynch anyone? ;)

True - referring to our 'lorebooks' isn't going to help us much, only confuse us, because every story of past villages is different.

So yeah, I guess I'm just repeating Fea. Hmm.

I don't believe I'll be voting today, because I haven't found a reason to see anyone suspicious enough to warrant one, and because I won't be back to vote. I have chickens to catch!

*runs off with a fat red pullet, dodging the effective strokes of a battledore!*

x-posted w/ tp & fea

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Fea! Fea, Fea, Fea!

I can see you. :p

I think we should lynch.....Caranlondien? She'd make a fine wolf and the EW knows it. She's sensible, adds to the discussion, and I don't think she'd get lynched had I not put her name on the shortlist.

If I were the EW, I'd create a monster from her.

[Nogrod]

I must agree with Phantom. I jut can't see any reason of the EW picking up her/his wolves from the stack of Spm, Spawn, Ang etc.. That would be very risky indeed. A wise EW would pick her/his chances differently. And we shall see these dynamics unfold in the days to become.

The EW would like to engage the "good players" into her/his camp, but the first day s/he would not be so bold? Spm, Spawn, Morm, Ang, etc. would be great assets to the EW along the game - as they had first built up an appearance of innocence. But then, they would be too obvious.

I'm really scared about those that have not posted yet - or just have posted namely. I will have to look at that too. Basically voting for those who do not share the game anyhow.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Just checking: Does this day end in 3 hours? So many votes still to come!

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I can see you.
Can you now? What am I wearing? :p

[Thinlómien]

Just checking: Does this day end in 3 hours? So many votes still to come! No, it is ending in 5 hours.

I'm convinced about the phantom's theory. It just makes sense. Nogrod is talking sense as well. But that doesn't release them from my suspicion.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

He doesn't fear a wizard challenge now. It's better for the village (worse for the EW) to have 2 wolves versus nearly thirty innocents than it is to have 10 wolves, 3 gifteds, and 10 innocents, so just because we don't have gifteds does not mean the wolves have a greater advantage now.Even though the EW wanted to postpone the battle as long as s/he can and even though the GW didn't have to be afraid of being called into a duel early, revealing his/her identity leaves the EW with the last word to say which we don't want because then s/he can start the battle whenever we reach the baddie/gifted ratio that pleases him/her.

However, I see your point about the GW stepping forward on Day 3 or 4, and although it's up to the GW themselves, I tend to agree. Still, if the GW/ Seer/ Villagers manage to spot the EW before that, it'd be great.

I jut can't see any reason of the EW picking up her/his wolves from the stack of Spm, Spawn, Ang etc.. Yeah, I don't see much point in the EW choosing Ang either - especially since he's not playing. ;)

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Apologies for showing up late, all...I'll probably be mentioning some old stuff, but here we go.

A suggestion was made earlier to lynch people who were *not* likely to be a seer, ranger, etc, and my name came up on the list as an unlikely pick and therefore suggested lynchee. I feel that this is somewhat unfair. I certainly do not profess to be such a person as would be wanted by both sides, or to be one of those lucky enough to be gifted. However, I feel that dismissal of anyone, including the other names on the list, is a mistake. Perhaps both wizards wanted an unlikely pick--it makes it that much more likely that the certain person would not be picked by the other wizard, or that they would be lynched for their suspected role. If that makes any sense.

I thought I'd throw my two coins' worth in, as it applies to me, even though it seems that everyone has moved on from this particular issue.

I am leaning toward agreeing with my mum on the subject of Loki, though. There's something in his attitude that just sets me on edge. It's not necessarily a bad thing, as we're all bound to disagree with one another at some point, but he seems a little overly antagonistic.

And Phantom: Make me dinner? Aww, how kind of you! *blushes* *warily eyes Diamond-mum's battledores*

(EDIT)- (OOC-I just noticed this, and I think it is fitting in a way that my 300th post would find its home here)

[The Saucepan Man]

Just checking: Does this day end in 3 hours?I'm working on the basis that the Day ends at 10pm GMT - in about three and a half hours from now. If I am wrong, please someone tell me, as I will otherwise miss my vote.

Some thoughts to follow ...

[Kath]

*cries*

Why do you all write so much!? It takes so long to go through and then you feel cheated when you reach the end because half of it's just random banter anyway.

But, enough complaining! It won't help us find these wizards. So, things that caught my eye.

Loki's attitude is an obvious one. In the past such extreme defensiveness over the slightest little thing has been viewed as suspicious behaviour. Also, his continual repetition about the EW being most likely to choose him because he's a newbie sent up flags. You've pointed it out once, ok, but to do it two or three times and make a big thing of it? I just thought it odd.

Gurthang and his 'go after the wizards' plan I thought a good one. If we can rid ourselves of the EW soon, we will have fewer wolves to contend with. phantom's point about it not mattering that we have very few gifteds since we would have so few wolves is also a good one.

Oh and it was that suggested certain people would be chosen for certain roles. Please GW if you want this village to survive DO NOT choose me as Ranger! (Haha Diamond very funny :p )

And that was about it that I really thought worth commenting on, though there are probably things I've missed.

Now I appear to have been grounded, thanks Dad :mad:, so I must disappear for a bit. Should be back in a couple of hours though, well before the deadline don't worry.

[Thinlómien]

I'm working on the basis that the Day ends at 10pm GMT - in about three and a half hours from now. If I am wrong, please someone tell me, as I will otherwise miss my vote. Isn't 10 PM GMT about 4½ hours from now? Or am I just making a mess because of time zones?

x-posted with Kath, as it would matter...

[Glirdan]

I must agree with Phantom. I jut can't see any reason of the EW picking up her/his wolves from the stack of Spm, Spawn, Ang etc.. That would be very risky indeed. A wise EW would pick her/his chances differently. And we shall see these dynamics unfold in the days to become.(Nogrod)

I can see that side to the argument and it makes sense. But what if the EW predicted this kind of thought? What if he knew we would think like this and decide to choose one of them anyway?

Now I find something odd with Oddwen (ha! get it? oh never mind). Oddwen isn't normally one to run off and not vote, so what's with this behaviour? Why would she(?) not vote and know full well that this could potentially get her into trouble tomorrow or in Days to come? This is rather odd...

OCC - Lmp, if you're there and don't mind, could you verify how long we have until the Day ends?

Edit - x-posted with Lommy and my belovecd Kath (hurry back!!)

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Lommy, 6pm EDT = midnight here and 10pm in England. It's now ~8:30 which leaves the villagers 3 and a half hours to vote. :)

[Cailín]

I am so confused now.

Spawn - you seem to know. What timezone are you in? GMT + 2 or 3?

[JennyHallu]

Yeah, Saucey...check your clock. I'm in EST, and 6 EST is 4 and a half hours from now.

Who is looking most suspicious now to me?

Sauce: He seemed a little fast to discount Loki, and his suggested werewolf teams seemed too cut and dried for me. While I agree that Loki is (to put it gently) obnoxious, it can only help the village to know who was turned twice, and no one else has come forward to deny his claim.

No one else is really standing out much...honestly in a village of this size, I expected to see it...noisier, I guess. I can actually keep up though! Yay!
(We'll see if I change my tune during the week.)

I did reread Nogrod's posts as I said I would, and found them....

Inconclusive. Nogrod is a hard nut to crack first day though, because whether innocent or guilty he completely changes his style between day 1 and day 2. Withholding judgement.

[Thinlómien]

Lommy, 6pm EDT = midnight here and 10pm in England. It's now ~8:30 which leaves the villagers 3 and a half hours to vote. :)But aren't we in +3 GMT because of the daylight saving time? That would make it 1AM...

Now I find something odd with Oddwen
I agree with my older brother here. I don't like people who don't vote. That will just leave the other villagers with one bit of evidence less for or against the person in question. According to my werewolf lorebook, werewolves and gifteds are the most reluctant to make choices, but as there are no gifteds around at the moment, Oddwen is a bit suspicious...

edit: xed with Cailín and Jenny

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Time Zone Clarification: The game ends at 6 PM EDT. It is now 1:50-ish EDT. That means the day ends in about 4 hours and 10 minutes, give or take, as my computer's clock is a couple minutes off.

Edit: my clock is apparantly 10 minutes off. 4 hours and 20 minutes.

[The Saucepan Man]

However, we might assume the Evil Wizard does not follow your train of thought.Quite possible. But since so many people seem to have been thinking along the same lines, I think it more likely that s/he does. The EW is almost certain to be one with experience of Werewolves.


Logically, the Good Wizard would scry those whom he believes likely to be the Evil Wizard. And likely candidates for that profession are generally those you deliberately excluded from your list.I’m not so sure. Would someone who was likely to be scryed or dreamed of early on really volunteer to be the EW? And would they be selected as such? I rather doubt it.


I can't help thinking that the EW might have actually chosen these "big guys" since he/she might predict that we make the kind of assumptions of intelligent-but-not-big-guys -players as I did in my last post. It seems that the theory is quite basic since it occured to me without much thinking, so I think the EW would try to avoid such predictable choices.The EW most likely has plenty of time to go for the “big names”. I still think it highly unlikely that s/he would go for anyone likely to be dreamed of (or lynched) on Day 1. The fact that the theory is an obvious one would not stop the EW following it, as it still leaves a lot of names to choose from.


Well, usually the villagers are ready to give a newcomer the benefit of doubt, a Seer won't usually bother to dream of someone completely new and depending on who the Wizards are, I think it's possible that the idea of making Loki a Wolf intrigued the EW.I am not disregarding Loki because he was a likely Seer dream, but because he is a likely Day 1 lynch (more likely than many others). Anyone perusing the discussions which occurred prior to the arrival of our Wizards would have been able to deduce as much.


... but SPM, you didn't even mention that in your "lists", making up three possible wolf teams that did not include Loki at all. That struck me as odd, if not a little careless coming from you.He’s not on my list because I do not trust his claim and because he falls into the “possible Day 1 lynch” category.


Which is, ironically, saying that we should be looking for those of less 'ww repute'. Not a pleasant thing to be accusing people of. In fact, I'm entirely offended that I am even considered on you list.Ah, being on the list does not make you a worse Werewolf player than the “big names”. In fact, it should be taken as a compliment, as I listed those players who I would want on my side, if I was the EW, but who are less likely to be spotted or lynched on Day 1 than some others I could mention.


I think we should preferably look at the actions of people (I know it's difficult on day 1), since we really can't predict the wizard tactics (or at least I can't).All in good time. As this is Day 1, I see no reason not to use other strategies to help us find the Wolves or the EW. Considering who might have been chosen as the EW, and who the EW might have chosen as a Wolf are two such strategies.


Killed wolves can be replaced overnight, so why bother to save them in the day and risk a self-exposure?The EW wants to make as many Wolves as possible, and so is likely to try to steer the village away from lynching his/her chosen ones, provided it does not risk exposing him. S/he is the only one who knows who both of them are. We would be lucky indeed to spot him/her today, but this knowledge might serve us well in future Days.


Now, I'm just saying, that if I were a wizard, of any persuasion, I would have chosen Lalaith. She's my number one pick for the wolf-who-was-cured. And I base that on pretty much nothing but a feeling.An excellent point. Lalaith or Firefoot would be good choices, but there are others too. By deleting from my previous list those who I think the GW might pick as a choice of Gifted, I can narrow it down further, as follows:

Azaelia, Oddwen, Alcarillo, Roa, Diamond or Gurthang

My vote will come later, but it will most likely be for one of those.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Okay... I got confused, too. I thought most of us were following daylight saving time.
I'm in +2 zone, but due to DST it's +3 added to GMT 0. However, in England the time is GMT +1, once again due to DST putting Lommy, Nogrod and I two hours ahead of them.

If the deadline is at 10pm GMT 0, then yes, it's 1am here.

edit: Thanks, Zali, for the clarification.

[Eonwe]

Well, I return armed slightly by having read up till now, but how much that will do for me, I don't know.

This game is going to be very very confusing, and is proving so already. My stratagy is to freestyle it and see what happens. I think that's what we'll all have to do.

Here's some brief comments and thoughts of mine.

*The EW and GW are each going for the same people. It least on the surface. (They may deviate from my brian's logic, if you see what I mean.) I'm not sure what this means exactly, but it is an interesting point.

*I'm not going to touch the Loki bandwagon. Loki will have to sort himself out, and i want no part in it. There are pros and cons for either wizard scrying/cursing him, so there is no conlusive conclution that can be reached. As always, there are bluffs, double-bluffs, triple-bluffs, and nth-bluffs, so play it by ear, is waht I say.

*This arrugment goes for people like SpM, tp, morm, eomer, and others. So we'll just have to wait as see waht develops.

*Gurthang, I believe, was the first to bring up the point about finding the Wizards. Of course, I agree completely, that is certainly sound logic. But I at least have no idea how to go about this. Any thoughts as to what kind of trail they'll be leaving. I can't imagine any, other that general paranoia. Of course, be careful what you say becuase they will take theri cues for you.

*Randomness will prevail (at least today), or apathy.

Because I don't waht apathy to prevail, I will attack the self-proclaimed "Wizard of Apathy", Nilp. Hi-ya!

++Nilp

gotta run!

[The Saucepan Man]

4 hours and 20 minutes.That makes sense, as it is when the previous Night started. So that's 11pm here. I have time to vote later. Thanks Zali. :)

The phantom's point notwithstanding, I still think that we should try to avoid inadvertently "outing" the GW. There is likely to be a better time to lose him/her.


Sauce: He seemed a little fast to discount Loki, and his suggested werewolf teams seemed too cut and dried for me.Given the number of villagers, I am trying to narrow down the field. You don't have to agree with me. I have stated why I think Loki an unlikely pick for the EW, and I stand by it.

I am disinclined to vote for Oddwen, as her "no vote" draws attention to her. An unlikely move for a Wolf. That narrows my list down further.

Back later ...

[Nogrod]

Isn't 10 PM GMT about 4½ hours from now? Or am I just making a mess because of time zones?
Hopefully you are just miscalculating. At least the last post by lmp -opening the game was made on 1am (our time) = 10pm gmt.

So sorry, but it's frustrating, when someone says, "I'll be back at six" - so six what, where, whence??? You have your time and we have ours. You can't just think, that we will automatically see your times when you just mention them from your own point of view... So take heed to the others also...

[Cailín]

Well, I am going to vote now as I cannot be sure I will be back on later. I might be, but just in case.

I have no idea whom the Evil Wizard might have cursed. Sure, Saucepan Man lists some likely options, but it all depends on the EW and most if not all of these I would also consider to be great choices for Gifteds. However, we do not have any Gifteds yet.

Also, all things considered, it seems probable (though my no means certain) that the EW is among those intelligent players who are still no immediate Seer dreams.

++ODDWEN

She is smart and could be very cunning, but is easily overlooked in a large village. She is therefore a good to-be-cursed option. Maybe even a wizard, though I cannot say I would know whether she has quite enough time on her hands.

She said she would probably not vote, which I don't like. Possibly a wrong move for a wolf -since it draws attention to her- but possibly not.

She's odd.

[Caranlondien]

I also must say that I do not really understand your reasoning concerning Loki, Celuien. If sowing confusion purposedly is not reason enough to get you lynched on Day one, what is?
Agreed.

Anyone who is saying or thinking that the EW may want to challenge soon is off their rocker. The EW wants things to drag on as long as possible. The EW WILL NOT CHALLENGE EARLY.
I, at least, am not saying the EW will want to challenge soon. What I said was that I think the benefits of the innocents knowing the identity of the GW would not outweight the potential costs should the EW somehow manage to maneuver him/herself into a good position before the GW does (the optimal position for the EW being that there are a fair number of wolves and few or no gifteds, and the optimal position for the GW being that there are few wolves and all 3 gifteds).

Knowing the identity of the GW will also help the EW's team. They'll scour the GW's posts for clues as to the identities of the gifteds (once we have some gifteds...)

I'm not saying I suspect those who have suggested the GW should reveal him/herself. Just saying I think you've got a bad idea there...

[Thinlómien]

Nogrod: two things:

1) I don't know (= I didn't understand) what you were trying to say about the time zones, but the deadline is 1pm GMT here.

2) I understand that you don't like people not mentioning the time zone when speaking about when will they be back etc., but I think you're getting overheated... :) Now, at least, you can't say that you don't understand why people think you aggressive... :p

[Nogrod]

Nogrod: I understand that you don't like people not mentioning the time zone when speaking about when will they be back etc., but I think you're getting overheated... Now, at least, you can't say that you don't understand why people think you aggressive... :p

C'mon? Who's overheating here? :D Is your wolfishness so hard to bear? :smokin:

[Firefoot]

My thoughts about how the wizrds might work...

I agree that it is definitely not in the best interest of the EW to challenge early. Right now, the wolf-to-villager ratio is about 1:13 (not including wizards). These are horrible odds, and despite the lack of gifteds if I were a wolf I would not be feeling very comfortable with playing the rest of the game this way. My guess is the EW waits until the ratio is at least 1:3 or, depending on the circumstances, 1:2. As for the GW, I think that revealing his/herself would be a bad idea; this leaves it up to the EW to decide the circumstances of the challenge and helps the EW decide who to curse and how to act. The GW needs to concentrate on finding the EW and hopefully challenge him/her fairly soon; any time after we have a seer and a ranger would probably work. A hunter would be nice, but not necessary. Someone said something earlier about the GW being able to guide the villagers actions; I would say that until we have a gifted or two this really would not be particularly necessary, and maybe not even smart. Certainly, the GW should not be telling us everything; this tells the EW those exact same things. I'm not saying it wouldn't work; I'm saying we would need to be careful about how and when we did it.

The other thing is that, with the exception of the couple of individuals that the GW scries, s/he is not actually going to know a whole lot more about the status of individual players than the rest of the innocents, which makes me a little leary of just letting the GW lead the charge. Reading up in my lorebooks, I've been finding that it takes long enough for the seer in a regular village to gather enough information to be really useful; how much more so in our quite sizable village? And once we're attempting to rely on seer dreams, we can't trust that information to be valid for more than a couple days.

As for suspicions... I'm still working my head around to that one. So many people...

[Alcarillo]

Just checking in to see what's happening and to tell everyone that I'm back from my long nap. *yawn*
An excellent point. Lalaith or Firefoot would be good choices, but there are others too. By deleting from my previous list those who I think the GW might pick as a choice of Gifted, I can narrow it down further, as follows:

Azaelia, Oddwen, Alcarillo, Roa, Diamond or Gurthang

My vote will come later, but it will most likely be for one of those.
Well, I agree with my wife when she says she thinks some of these people would be chosen as Gifteds. If I were the GW, I would choose some of these villagers to be Gifteds, because they tend to last a while into the game, whether by being clever or by flying under the radar. True that that's also great when playing a wolf, but I wouldn't lynch these folks yet (especially not myself!).

Let's try to root out the EW first before he focus on the wolves. I thought I'd like to remind people of these criteria Feanor came up with:
The evil wizard (okay... speaking plainly now...) volunteered for the job. The evil wizard, ergo, is somebody with a bit of time on his or her hands at the moment. The evil wizard is probably not going to be one of the students playing with finals coming up. The evil wizard is probably not going to be somebody that can't guarantee specific hours during the day in which to take care of wizarding business. The evil wizard (and the good, yes, the good) are going to be players with a bit of time to spare.

Cross-posted with Firefoot

[Thinlómien]

I'm very concerned about my parents... They are lost! The have vanished! *cries* They have turned me, Glirdy and Cara down! *sob*

According to my werewolf lorebooks both of them (Sleepy Ranger and Roa_Aoife) are players who check in the village quite frequently during the day. It is not like them to appear just on the few last hours, or not to appear at all. Where are they?

Mummy, Daddy, I miss you! Come here! Your little daughter is all alone... *sniff*



edit: cross-posted with Alcarillo

[Caranlondien]

Note: that last quote in my previous post was from The Phantom. Forgot to put that in...

Don't worry, Lommy, I'm sure our parents are just, er... Well, I don't know what they're doing. Hope they're not off trying to hide some new fur...

However, I see your point about the GW stepping forward on Day 3 or 4, and although it's up to the GW themselves, I tend to agree. Still, if the GW/ Seer/ Villagers manage to spot the EW before that, it'd be great.
I agree. This is what I was trying to say earlier - leave it up to the GW; I have faith that he/she knows what he/she is doing.

Wow. The amount of talking we're doing is slightly overwhelming (I hadn't finished catching up when I made my last post). All caught up now, though.

Now I forget who said it, but someone talked about the "Loki Bandwagon". Not much of a bandwagon yet, as he(/she) has only one vote. I'll admit, he(/she) has come under significant suspicion toDay, but that's really his(/her) own doing. If we do end up lynching him(.../her...), it would be far less random than some of the Day 1 bandwagonning I've read about in my lorebooks.

Left without any other major suspects, and given that I must vote now, that is how I shall cast my vote. I don't mean to start a bandwagon that werewolves can easily hide in, but I don't know whom else to suspect.

++Loki

Recap of the voting so far:
1. Nilp --> Nogrod (Nogrod 1)
2. Lhuna --> Eomer (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1)
3. Gurthang --> Lommy (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1)
4. Diamond --> Loki (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 1)
5. Eonwe --> Nilp (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 1, Nilp 1)
6. Cailín --> Oddwen (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 1, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1)
7. Caran --> Loki (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1)

[Glirdan]

I'm very concerned about my parents... They are lost! The have vanished! *cries* They have turned me, Glirdy and Cara down! *sob*

According to my werewolf lorebooks both of them (Sleepy Ranger and Roa_Aoife) are players who check in the village quite frequently during the day. It is not like them to appear just on the few last hours, or not to appear at all. Where are they?

Mummy, Daddy, I miss you! Come here! Your little daughter is all alone... *sniff*

There, there Lommy. I'm sure they have a reasonable explanation for not being here. Cara and I will take care of you. I just wish they would get here because we won't be able to live on our own for to long. :(

[Valier]

Wow you wake up and there are now four pages, instead of one!! I have lots of reading to do, but I will be around. I'll be back in awhile, hopefully with something good.:)

[Thinlómien]

Well, at least I have loving siblings. :) :) I promise, I won't vote for you today, especially as you have been reasonable this far.

As my time here toDay draws close (I might have to go soon) I think it is time for me to speak of my suspicions. (<- I hope that didn't sound overwhelmingly dramatical...)

Lhuna seems a bit odd. Spawn sums it up quite well: She poses a question asking for names for possible wolves, but refuses to answer herself. Then she pulls out an example of a situation where a big-name villager was lynched with profitable consequences even though he contributed much. Lhuna wonders if we have the courage to do it in this Village, too.

Loki is completely weird and I'd like to lynch him since he's only creating confusion, but I'm not sure if I believe in his lycantrophy/evilwizardness so much that I'd waste my vote on him.

Alcarillo is worrying me. He speaks too openly about gifteds. It serves only the baddies to speak of them.

I wouldn't like to say a word against my daddy who introduced me to pizza or my momma who comforts me if I have nightmares, but I'm beginning to be very concerned about their abnormal behaviour...

[Firefoot]

Might I recommend we not spread the voting too far out? With seven people having votes, that's about a fourth of the village - unless you are really suspicious of someone not on that list (and I'm not sure what sort of evidence anyone's likely to turn up at this point in the game), I would think that it's not too unreasonable to try and pick someone on it. According to my lorebooks, it's so much easier for wolves to hide when there are numerous people receiving votes - the more, the better for them - and now all the more so with them not necessarily knowing who each other are...

[Thinlómien]

Might I recommend we not spread the voting too far out? With seven people having votes, that's about a fourth of the village - unless you are really suspicious of someone not on that list (and I'm not sure what sort of evidence anyone's likely to turn up at this point in the game), I would think that it's not too unreasonable to try and pick someone on it. According to my lorebooks, it's so much easier for wolves to hide when there are numerous people receiving votes - the more, the better for them - and now all the more so with them not necessarily knowing who each other are...I don't recommend anyone vote for someone only because s/he has already been voted for. There isn't anything that makes the this far voted ones any more suspicious than anyone else. On the other hand, my ww lorebook agrees with yours.

Of the ones already voted for I could vote Loki or Oddwen. I don't find anything particularly irritating or suspicious in the other people. But I might vote Lhuna or Alca as well. Or someone else. I need more thinking before voting anyone.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

But it's just as easy to hide in a bandwagon.

[mormegil]

I've been gone since I last post...did I miss anything? :rolleyes: Well I'll see if I can catch up. I knew this would be busy but this is staggering.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well....yeah. There are 30 folk and nothing to go on. What are we even doing? All we have are feelings as to who the EW would pick as wolves.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Well....yeah. There are 30 folk and nothing to go on. What are we even doing? All we have are feelings as to who the EW would pick as wolves.
*sigh*

And that's why "Figure out who the evil wizard is" is the best plan we have right now. Can't figure out how s/he thinks until we figure out who s/he is.

[Thinlómien]

But it's just as easy to hide in a bandwagon.
True, but bandwagoners are usually analysed the most on the next day.

Thinlómien 12
Diamond18 11
Cailín 8
Feanor of the Peredhil 8
littlemanpoet 7
dancing spawn of ungoliant 7
Nogrod 6
the phantom 6
Naria 5
Firefoot 5
Caranlondien 5
Eomer of the Rohirrim 5
Gurthang 5
Celuien 5
Glirdan 5
The Saucepan Man 5
Lhunardawen 4
Alcarillo 3
Loki 3
JennyHallu 3
Eonwe 2
mormegil 2
Valier 2
Azaelia of Willowbottom 2
Nilpaurion Felagund 2
Oddwen 2
Kath 2
Kitanna 1
+ Roa_Aoife 0
Sleepy Ranger 0

- It seems I can't get rid of my floody way of playing :rolleyes:
- There are some people that I would like to see reappearing (see the non-posters and the people with 1-3) posts. Especially Loki. I would like to hear more about him.
- Some of the people mentioned above won't probably reappear toDay since they've already voted (Eonwe and Nilp at least)

edit: x-posted with Eomer and Fea

[Naria]

Okay, so far I have three people that are worrying me right now. They are:

Nogrod
The Phantom
and my dear ol daddy

I have put these in order of worrynessess. Nogrod is at the top because he isn't at all acting like he normally does, so the lorebook says,--in either a good or bad role--he hasn't even nearly posted as much as he usually does and he isn't getting himself involved in any discussions ie the ew and gw banter. He might just be an ordo and staying out of things, but that in itself is not him. Oh yeah, it isn't like him to come on and be the way that he was in post #118. Yeah he is an in your face kind of player,but even that is a little much and with no reason for it(that I can see).

The lorebook doesn't have much information(for me) about the phantom so I can't really say how he normally acts, but I find his decisive and firm belief in how the EW and the GW are/would play to be rather disturbing. I'm not saying that I don't agree with his points(I do), but how can someone be so sure about someone else's role?(unless he is one himself)

And finally we have Dad, what the bleep'n-bleep are ya doin putting your own family's heads on your choppin block.....I'm telling mum.....*yells from the top of the stairs* MOM, dad's doing it again. Now, in my opinion, Sauce hasn't really been acting himself either. Usually there is quite a bit of insight coming from his posts and I just can't see it and that worries me.


I won't vote for Loki(as of toDay) mainly because, although it was rather brash, I don't find too much wrong with his posts. I would like to see what he has to offer to the conversation upon his return(where'd he go anyway?)

I have to run out and grab my other mum(RL) something for Mother's Day. I will have to vote soon.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Well, let's figure out who the EW is. Oh wait, all we have are feelings...

[Glirdan]

Well....yeah. There are 30 folk and nothing to go on. What are we even doing? All we have are feelings as to who the EW would pick as wolves.

And this is why I hate Day 1's. :(

*sigh*

And that's why "Figure out who the evil wizard is" is the best plan we have right now. Can't figure out how s/he thinks until we figure out who s/he is.

Another reason why I hate Day 1's: you can't get any serious suspicions until after the first Day. :rolleyes: However, I do agree with you that for toDay, this is the best plan of action that we have to go off of.

True, but bandwagoners are usually analysed the most on the next day.

And on Day 1's, the only reason why people bandwaggon is because
a) They are too lazy to find their own suspicions
b) They don't want to look odd for having a different vote

And I'm sure there are other personal reasons but those two seem to pop up (in my mind anyway) a lot.

[Thinlómien]

Nogrod is at the top because he isn't at all acting like he normally does--in either a good or bad role--he hasn't even nearly posted as much as he usually does and he isn't getting himself invovled in any discussions ie the ew and gw banter. He might just be an ordo and staying out of things, but that in itself is not him. Oh yeah, it isn't like him to come on and be the way that he was in post #118. Yeah he is an in your face kind of player,but even that is a little much and with no reason for it(that I can see).You raise a good point. I agree. He's usually much more actively in discussion and argumenting more. Maybe he wants not to get attention, since his playing style usually calls it quite a lot. I think he's protecting himself. But ordos do that too so that isn't leading us far. However, my werewolf lorebooks tell no tales of a wolf-Nogrod. We only know his ordo-style and his gifted-style, which are pretty much the same. Maybe this is how he acts when he's a wolf. He's more careful. Or maybe he's even the EW. You never know.

edit: xed with my big brother.

I would also add that we need to watch Nogrod at least, if not vote him.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

The lorebook doesn't have much information(for me) about the phantom so I can't really say how he normally acts, but I find his decisive and firm belief in how the EW and the GW are/would play to be rather disturbing. I'm not saying that I don't agree with his points(I do), but how can someone be so sure about someone else's role?(unless he is one himself)
If it helps you any, I'd be petrified if he didn't come right in and tell us what's happening. My lorebooks are pretty conclusive on that one.

[Celuien]

The only reason I'm not voting for Loki is because I don't know if the confusion he's caused me is in character or an wolvish move. And I don't if I confused because I don't know him well or if it's genuine. For instance Nilp confuses me, but according to my books of werewolf lore, villagers named Nilp or Adam were born under a full moon and tend to be confusing, so I intend to give him a pass for a while. I'm afraid of being unfair to Loki if I don't give him the same chance. But in the absence of another suspect, I may vote for him. I'm just hesitant to do so because I feel like I'm just not giving our new resident a fair chance.

Clear enough?

SPM - it's true that the EW wants as many wolves as possible, but can win with just one. So while it's nice for the EW to have a full pack, it's not essential for victory, which is why I wonder if the EW would risk exposure by openly defending a transformed villagers. Just something I thought I'd put out there.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Nogrod also seems like a pretty good pick for the EW. Yeah, that goes for a lot of people. But there are certain villagers who are almost certainly not going to be picked: the usual suspects, the lynch candidates.

I think Loki is almost certainly not worth voting for today and I recommend that people stop voting for him/her. Even before we had the trouble with wolves in this village, we could easily see that Loki is an argumentative sort. The EW would not curse Loki.

Probably not Nilp either.

[Alcarillo]

Alcarillo is worrying me. He speaks too openly about gifteds. It serves only the baddies to speak of them.
It was never my intent to aid the baddies. I was only giving my opinion of Saucepan's lists.
Well, let's figure out who the EW is. Oh wait, all we have are feelings...
Ah, my son, don't you ever listen to your father?
Let's try to root out the EW first before he focus on the wolves. I thought I'd like to remind people of these criteria Feanor came up with:
The evil wizard (okay... speaking plainly now...) volunteered for the job. The evil wizard, ergo, is somebody with a bit of time on his or her hands at the moment. The evil wizard is probably not going to be one of the students playing with finals coming up. The evil wizard is probably not going to be somebody that can't guarantee specific hours during the day in which to take care of wizarding business. The evil wizard (and the good, yes, the good) are going to be players with a bit of time to spare.
As to whom I am suspicious of, I have to say the Saucepan Man. He's been making all of these lists about potential werewolves. Maybe he's tryin' to throw us off the track of the EW. I dunno. And look at that EW criteria above! The Saucepan Man is a non-student, a very experienced player (the sort who would volunteer for a job as the wizard), and lives in a nice time-zone. Couldn't he be the EW?

Cross-posted with the last few posts

[Celuien]

Right. Eomer makes sense. I can't imagine Nilp being cursed. He's too obvious a target for lynching with his enigmatic, odd behavior. :p :D

I'll go through everything that's been posted so far and try to analyse everyone. Not sure what it will tell us since there are few patterns that we can actually spot, but I'll give it a try. It will be done from the viewpoint of 'who would the EW want to curse.'

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

O yea, SPM has all the time in the world to mess about in the village. :rolleyes:

The 'business factor' doesn't strike me as relevant at all. As for the assertion that students are the busiest — Ha! This is madness. :p

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

++Nilp

gotta run!
And you'd better run fast!! What are you trying to do, eh? Make me a single mum of two? *throws muffins after Eonwe*

With seven people having votes, that's about a fourth of the village - unless you are really suspicious of someone not on that list (and I'm not sure what sort of evidence anyone's likely to turn up at this point in the game), I would think that it's not too unreasonable to try and pick someone on it. According to my lorebooks, it's so much easier for wolves to hide when there are numerous people receiving votes - the more, the better for them - and now all the more so with them not necessarily knowing who each other are... Actually, six which is a fift of the Village. Hide where? Among those who vote or those who receive votes? Right now when the Wolves don't know each other, they're just concerned about their own lives as is everyone else in this Village. Therefore I'm afraid that the votes will tell very little of possible culprits. So, if there is someone that you find more suspicious than others based on a gut feeling or whatever, why not vote for him/her?


Good points about Nogrod. I need to go rereading.

Btw, there are quite a few lorebooks floating around here, don't you think? Who writes them all? :p

[Thinlómien]

Nogrod also seems like a pretty good pick for the EW. Agree. Besides of being smart, not the first scry for the GW he's also usually so aggressive that he wouldn't be believed to be a wolf since it usually thought that wolves wouldn't play so rashly. Furthermore, my lorebook says that people generally trust him pretty much.

edit: xed with spawn and Eomer

[JennyHallu]

I need to go off and do housecleaning, and doubt I will return before the day is out. Therefore, I really ought to vote now.

++Saucepan Man

For reasons previously stated.

[Kath]

And on Day 1's, the only reason why people bandwaggon is because
a) They are too lazy to find their own suspicions
b) They don't want to look odd for having a different vote
Or because they find the person they are voting for suspicious, but someone else has already voted. Bandwaggoning doesn't necessarily mean you are following a group, either to hide or for ease, it can simply be accidental in a way.

I can see Eomer's point about the EW not choosing Loki due to his argumentative style, which was already evident before the game even began. It would be a dangerous move since Loki was bound to draw suspicion. Of course it could be a very clever bluff etc. but that's just too confusing right now! However, I would like to hear a bit more from him, as since those contentious posts this morning he hasn't said a word.

But SPM? Really? I know he's clever and a great player but does he really have the time to be the EW? Which, I assume, is why people are voting for him. It's a thought I suppose.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Celuien, Caranlondien, Roa, Nogrod, Alcarillo, Cailín, Oddwen, Jenny, Lalaith or Gurthang.

Others are more likely to be lynched early on, or dreamed about by a Seer, or scried by the GW.

So, it's one of those I'll vote for. And......soon!

[mormegil]

Sadly I have not been able to catch up and I don't believe I will be able to.

Thinlo wants to hear more from some...I want to hear less from others :rolleyes:

++Kath

Call it a personal vendatta ;)

I will stay more caught up hopefully in the future, but this 140 posts, or whatever we are at is simply outrageous.

[Thinlómien]

I think Nogrod is ruder, more nonsense and more in character than usually. The two later ones are quite alarming.

This:
C'mon? Who's overheating here? :D Is your wolfishness so hard to bear? :smokin:
would probably worry me as being extremely jumpy if anyone else than he would have said it. Knowing Nogrod from RL I can tell that he really has sometimes that kind of awful sense of humour... :p

xed with morm and Eomer

[Kath]

++Kath

Call it a personal vendatta
Oy! Actually on second thought, fair enough :p

I want proper reasoned voting from you tomorrow though or I shall decide you are a wolf!

[Naria]

Well, I'm off to do some shopping. I will vote for

++Nogrod

I am very worried about him(as I stated above). Whether he is a wolf or the EW we need to know sooner than later.


Edit--cross posted

[Glirdan]

Kath! My beloved! You have returned!! Now this eases my pain immensely. :D

Or because they find the person they are voting for suspicious, but someone else has already voted. Bandwaggoning doesn't necessarily mean you are following a group, either to hide or for ease, it can simply be accidental in a way.

I knew there was something I forgot in that list! Thank you for stating it! :D

But SPM? Really? I know he's clever and a great player but does he really have the time to be the EW? Which, I assume, is why people are voting for him. It's a thought I suppose.

I hate to argue with you Kath, but I must. The only reason I see why the EW would choose SpM is because he's a great player. However, I highly doubt he did. This would be to obvious a move.

x-posted with to many to name

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

++NOGROD

Take it as a compliment: I'd curse you if I was evil. :p

[Thinlómien]

On second thought, Lhuna's logic makes sense and I don't have enough to go against Alca so I vote:

++Nogrod

I hope you won't lynch SPM only because you fear him.

edit: xed with Eomer

[Alcarillo]

Well, I'm stickin' to my crazy theory. :p

++Saucepan Man

[Nogrod]

Funny. When I try to be considerate / being busy, I'm the top of the suspicionn list... Great. Well, you just vote as you wísh. But don't go weeping afterwards.

But yes:
Lalaith has not appeared.

Roa and Sleepy have not appeared (Roa told she would have trroubles)
Morm has posted, but has not said anything, Valier has been careful too, and so has Kath.

Loki has been amazingly quiet after all the bragging, and even though Nilp didn't vote for himself this time, he had seemed to have no grounds whatsoever to his vote anyways...

The current standings are here:

Nilp --> Nogrod
Lhuna -->Eomer
Gurthang --> Thinlomien
Diamond --> Loki
Eonwe --> Nilp
Cailin --> Oddwen

[Thinlómien]

Valier has been careful too, and so has Kath. I wouldn't be over-worried about those two. IAccording my lorebook they're always careful.

I'm going now! Have a good night and Night!

[Nogrod]

After my last one, I think I have to update the vote...

Nilp --> Nogrod
Lhuna --> Eomer
Gurthang --> Thinlomien
Diamond --> Loki
Eonwe --> Nilp
Cailin --> Oddwen
Morm --> Kath
Naria --> Nogrod
Thinlomien --> Nogrod
Alcarillo --> Spm

Making a tally of:
Nogrod 3
others 1 / each (Eomer, Thinlomien, Loki, Nilp, Oddwen, Kath, Spm)

Great!

[Nogrod]

I don't know how to handle this, but Lommy voted for me twice. Should these both votes be counted? :D

She seems to be very happy to get rid of me - as is Eomer - coming out of the bush and happily voting for me with no good reasons. If you kill me tonight, look very carefully to those two...

I'll be around for awhile, looking for the culprits... maybe we have some chances to find out the ones?
*just so sad - but trying anyways*

[Celuien]

Actually, my tally is different:
1. Nilp --> Nogrod (Nogrod 1)
2. Lhuna --> Eomer (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1)
3. Gurthang --> Lommy (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1)
4. Diamond --> Loki (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 1)
5. Eonwe --> Nilp (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 1, Nilp 1)
6. Cailín --> Oddwen (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 1, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1)
7. Caran --> Loki (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1)
8. Jenny --> SPM (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1)
9. Morm --> Kath (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1, Kath 1)
10. Naria --> Nogrod (Nogrod 2, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1, Kath 1)
11. Eomer --> Nogrod (Nogrod 3, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1, Kath 1)
12. Lommy --> Nogrod (Nogrod 4, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1, Kath 1)
13. Alcarillo --> SPM (Nogrod 4, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)

Can someone recheck? I'm falling behind on my analysis and might have to limit it even more than I already am, if I manage to finish at all...

[JennyHallu]

You missed me, Nogrod. I have also voted for SPM...now I am really off...toodles, everyone...(come on, Fufu)

[Nogrod]

You may be right Celuien. Just have to check that one... I'm not calling my version the right one. Let's see it.

[Kath]

Right, I'm going to have to go now which means a vote.

++LOMMY

She is far too eager to kill off Nogrod, with very shoddy reasoning. The double vote isn't suspicious, her computer was probably playing up, but her glee at the idea of bumping Nogrod off is. Plus, he isn't even her real suspect!

[Nogrod]

The important part of this is here:

Nogrod 4
Loki 2
SPM 2
Lommy 2
Eomer, , Nilp, Oddwen, Kath 1

EDIT: updated with Kath's vote

[Celuien]

Okay, thanks.

By the way, my gut feeling is that Nogrod is innocent. Analysis to follow...

EDIT: Crossed with Nogrod and Kath.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

++LOKI

Because I have two conflicting opinions and I don't like either of them.

Either he's a newbie and is going to get himself hurt or he's too smart for his own good and is manipulating us. That and I've got nobody better to attack right now.

[Loki]

My apologies of the late-ish post, but I've been quite busy all day. Breezed through the posts real quick, much suprised by everyone's reactions. Mostly that no one had considered that, in fact, I was telling the truth. No one had considered that my defensiveness is a matter of a far more personal nature, and I came into the game dead-set of simply playing to my personality. No one considered that I was operating solely on instinct.

Honestly, I'm doing my best by my best guess. Nogrod was quite anxious to see me gone, as was Diamond. Those are my two best approximations of everything. There's more data, but I am of little time at the computer. I'll post a more thorough report later, so look for it.

++Nogrod

[Nogrod]

Well, I had no time to act before Loki made his move...

Just look closely what he is doing the next days. That's a really a nice pick from the EW, and Loki - and I must admit, you play well... nastily, but effectively.

++ Loki


After my vote...

Nogrod 5
Loki 4
SPM 2
Lommy 2
Eomer, , Nilp, Oddwen, Kath 1

[Nogrod]

Honestly, I'm doing my best by my best guess. Nogrod was quite anxious to see me gone, as was Diamond. Those are my two best approximations of everything. There's more data, but I am of little time at the computer. I'll post a more thorough report later, so look for it.


How convenient...

[Roa_Aoife]

Hello, everyone! I finally made it. Alright, I've only managed a quick skim, and I'd like to make a comment concerning Loki.

Loki seems to be a fairly competent person. Perhaps he is new to werewolf, and doesn't fully understand why defending himself was suspicious, but he's intelligent- that much is obvious. As a wolf he would know not to point out that he would be picked. I think those thatsuspect him highly under estimate his competence.

Not only that, but people seem to have missed one ibvious factor of the EW's choices. The EW would want to pick people who wouldn't be likely choicces of the GW. This way, he/she/it keeps the werewolf count high, and avoids being discovered longer. For these reasons, I think Loki's claim is a likely one.

Now, I have to go back through and read everything else, but I'll return afterwards with my vote.

[Glirdan]

Kath! I can't believe you would attack my sibling like that! I'm astonished!! :eek:

Anyway, I have little time so I must vote and it shall be for

++Oddwen

Like I said, her no vote is rather worrying and not like Oddwen. I am off. Good night.

[Lalaith]

Goodness me. Five whole pages. I've had a day of the most tiresome and entirely unfrivolous chores, and now this. What a village.

I find the thought of having had such numerous attentions in the Night as master Eomer suggests, quite delightful. But alas, my night passed in a most boring, uneventful way.
But here's one thing I would do if I were Evil Wizard - something that hasn't occurred, it seems, to any of you.

Day One, usually, is a nightmare to live through but it is useful in retrospect, to analyse voting patterns. Not so this time - as the wolves have no more idea of anything than the rest of us.
The only person who knows who the wolves are, is the EW. S/he is therefore the only person to leave a voting trail. So what better, on the first night, than to create cannon fodder?
I mean, create a wolf for no other reason than to play a vital role in getting him lynched, and thereby devolve suspicion from yourself. Maybe not today, but soon.
Oh, and if I were GW, I would be looking, on the first night, not to find the EW but to clone myself - that is, to get myself a Seer.
So I think that the changed wolf was someone who would also make a good Seer. S/he is also someone who is currently innocent - would the EW curse them again tomorrow for safety's sake?

I will now go back to read the no doubt umpteen crossposts that have been made while I was writing this, and then go back and vote.

[The Saucepan Man]

Just got back.

I'm now confused over time-zones. Can someone tell me if I have 5 minutes to vote or 1 hour and 5 minutes please?

[Lalaith]

Yes, I'd like to know too.

[Valier]

I believe there is one hour left.

[Lalaith]

Oh dear *throws up hands in frivolous way*

I can't take the risk of it being (now) two minutes rather than one hour 2 mins, so here goes.
++LOKI

Because that fits in with my cannon fodder theory.

[Celuien]

Limited to Loki, Nogrod and Lommy, as analysis seemed urgent for them.

Loki: 8: Implies that he was chosen and transformed by both the good and evil wizards. An “I told you so” about rules.

12: Irritable comments to Nogrod about cafes, rules, silly games and dinner.

23: More irritability. Says he will get insufferable and retaliatory. Says that he has insight, evidence for not being a wolf, and that being new does little to condemn him.

Impression: Irritability irritates me. I still don’t think that he was the one transformed and retransformed, though I am puzzled as to why he would lie. That is where my theory of his being deliberately confusing comes from. But, to play the opposite viewpoint, it is possible that he was chosen by the EW because he was a newcomer. It is less likely, however, that the GW would have chosen a controversial unknown to become a gifted. For that reason, I will continue to disbelieve his claim for the present, and file it under possibilities for later consideration. I’ve already explained why I’m unlikely to vote for him today. I will be watching him.

Nogrod: 9: Questions Loki for grumbling about wolves before poor Elempi’s death was discovered (read: posting before day officially started) and for his statements about scrying.

20: More with Loki regarding manners and the “I told so you” remark. 24 is more of the same.

99: Agrees with Phantom, says prominent players are risky EW picks early, but assets later, is scared those who haven’t posted or haven’t post significantly.

122: Asks Lommy if her wolvishness is so hard to bear.

160: Frustration at being at the top of suspicion for so many. Points out non-posters. Seems troubled by Morm, Loki and Nilp. Says Valier and Kath are being careful. Vote tally.

162: Vote tally.

163: Suggests looking at Lommy and Eomer for their eagerness to vote for him.

Impression: I don’t find any reason to suspect him, really, and it seems like most of the votes for him are based on the idea that he might be a good EW pick rather than what he’s done…

Lommy: 67: Reminder that the wizards choose their allies, lists Roa, Gurthang, Diamond, Nogrod, Kath, Lhuna, Kitanna, Caílin and Lalaith as potential EW selections. Wants to find the EW, but suggests not focusing all efforts on that endeavor. Says wolves will be hard to find because they don’t know each other.

75: Says not to vote preventively to eliminate likely EW picks, says we should look at actions instead – wizard strategy is hard to predict and we might be misled by attempts to figure it out.

82: Response to Fea, where she says she doesn’t discard looking for the EW, but prefers looking at people’s actions. Fears the EW is laughing at village confusion, wonders who wouldn’t be nervous in this game.

91: Says to Glirdan that it’s dangerous to go by personalities and that werewolf is always dangerous, sticks by earlier comments, asks Fea if she’s has any EW theories.

102: Says phantom and Nogrod make sense, but that they aren’t excused from suspicion.

112: Doesn’t like non-voters. Thinks Oddwen is suspicious.

121: Thinks Nogrod is overheated about time zone confusion (omitted from above analysis as not relevant to wolf identification).

125: Wonders where Sleepy and Roa are.

129: Thinks Lhuna, Loki and Alcarillo look suspicious. Is beginning to be concerned about her daddy and momma.

131: Doesn’t recommend voting for someone because s/he already has a vote. Still advocates Loki, Oddwen, Lhuna or Alca.

136: Wants to hear more from Loki.

140: Now wants to watch Nogrod based on points from Naria.

148: Agrees with Eomer that Nogrod would be a good first scry for the EW.

153: Says Nogrod isn’t himself.

158: Votes Nogrod, saying Lhuna makes sense and there isn’t enough against Alca. (What happened to suspicion of Loki/Oddwen???) Hopes we won’t lynch SPM.

161: Says it’s normal for Valier and Kath to be careful.

Impression: Well, I agree that SPM should not be lynched. Shame on you, sister Jenny! Some of what she says makes sense, but her sudden switch to voting for Nogrod is sending off red flags when she still had at least two other suspects that she seemed to have more doubts about than him. She would also be a good EW pick as someon who is clever, but seeming able to hide from suspicion.

And I’m afraid that’s all I can fit in before running out of time.

++ LOMMY

For reasons cited above.

EDIT: crossed with a lot of people. :rolleyes:

[Firefoot]

I don't recommend anyone vote for someone only because s/he has already been voted for. There isn't anything that makes the this far voted ones any more suspicious than anyone else. On the other hand, my ww lorebook agrees with yours. Actually, six which is a fift of the Village. Hide where? Among those who vote or those who receive votes? Right now when the Wolves don't know each other, they're just concerned about their own lives as is everyone else in this Village. Therefore I'm afraid that the votes will tell very little of possible culprits. So, if there is someone that you find more suspicious than others based on a gut feeling or whatever, why not vote for him/her? You were right, it was six. I misread Caran's way of posting votes. But all I was trying to say was that I have in my lorebooks examples of when Day 2 comes around and there is absolutely nothing to see in the voting because about 80% of the village received a vote. That's rather frustrating. I'm not saying vote for them because they're on that list. I'm just trying to say let's think and not vote all pell-mell.

I would ask that people give names and not just "my father" or "my sister." I have a hard enough time keeping my own family straight, much less everyone else's. Just instead of my sister, say "my sister Lhuna" or something like that. For everyone's sanity.

[the phantom]

The other thing is that, with the exception of the couple of individuals that the GW scries, s/he is not actually going to know a whole lot more about the status of individual players than the rest of the innocents, which makes me a little leary of just letting the GW lead the charge.
You are 100% right that the GW, at first, won't know much more than a common villager. The advantage to him coming forward soon isn't that he'll know who to lynch- it's that he'll know who not to lynch.

He can put forward two or three safe candidates and allow the village to debate about which one to lynch. The following day, he can reuse one of the previous day's candidates and run a second candidate against him. If the GW gave us too large a lynch list or used too many different people, the Wolves and EW would soon be able to figure out who the gifteds were, which is a bad thing. Because of that, the GW would keep the lynch list very short and not throw on too many different names. Of course, that would pretty much guarantee that the EW would not curse someone from the lynch list, but at the same time the GW won't be scrying them either, making it slightly more likely that he'd scry the same villager as the EW.
The lorebook doesn't have much information(for me) about the phantom so I can't really say how he normally acts, but I find his decisive and firm belief in how the EW and the GW are/would play to be rather disturbing.
That's what I'm always like, Naria. I put myself in the shoes of whoever I'm trying to predict, figure out what the most logical course of action for them is, and then I say it (and I often say it quite decisively).

As you can imagine, the ones who fool me the most are those who don't play the percentages and don't behave logically. However, doing things like that often gets them killed, so really I don't mind my opponents fooling me because they are usually killed for their disregard for rational playing techniques.
I'm not saying that I don't agree with his points(I do)
Glad to hear it.
but how can someone be so sure
Because.
which is why I wonder if the EW would risk exposure by openly defending a transformed villagers
Who knows? There's no need to take a risk when the EW can just create another wolf at night, but then again- if the EW makes a strong defense of a wolf and then it is found out that the person was indeed a wolf through lynching, many people might think- "Um, I don't think the EW would've been defending that wolf so heavily, it's not worth the risk, therefore so-and-so probably isn't the EW."
Knowing the identity of the GW will also help the EW's team. They'll scour the GW's posts for clues as to the identities of the gifteds
I don't think so.

Only a fool of a Good Wizard would allow his posts to point to his gifteds. As I said earlier, the strategy of the revealed GW would not be to defend the known innocent, but to lynch the known wolves (or, at the worst, lynch innocents that he doesn't know are innocents).

The GW would put forward his lynch candidates, and any member of the village who tried really hard to put forth someone of their own choosing would get a response from the GW such as "That person isn't on my list. Shut up."

Attacking people not on the GW's approved lynch list is the same thing as an attempt to get the GW to defend someone, thus revealing to the EW and the Wolves a gifted villager.

Now, that isn't to say everyone can't give their suspicions. Naturally, the GW and Seer will read what everyone has to say and take all opinions into consideration for the nightly scry/dream, but being allowed to state opinions and refusing the leadership of the GW are two completely different things.

The GW and his gifteds are our salvation. Once he is revealed, it will be in our best interest not to argue with him or his lists, because he knows more than a common villager. Should we give our opinions? Certainly! He will use them in helping him decide which individuals to scry and move onto the lynch list, but we shouldn't demand that he change his list or anything. Disobeying him might lead to the accidental discovery of gifteds.
Day One, usually, is a nightmare to live through but it is useful in retrospect, to analyse voting patterns. Not so this time - as the wolves have no more idea of anything than the rest of us.
The only person who knows who the wolves are, is the EW. S/he is therefore the only person to leave a voting trail. So what better, on the first night, than to create cannon fodder?
I mean, create a wolf for no other reason than to play a vital role in getting him lynched, and thereby devolve suspicion from yourself. Maybe not today, but soon.
Oh, and if I were GW, I would be looking, on the first night, not to find the EW but to clone myself - that is, to get myself a Seer.
So I think that the changed wolf was someone who would also make a good Seer.
Very good stuff, Lalaith.

[Celuien]

Valier is correct. There's about an hour left. My clock says it is 5:01 EDT.

[Nogrod]

Just a point. See on what grounds different people have been voting....

Nilp for me: out of the hat - you all know this
Naria: she's worried about me and wants to check it. So easy to say wanting to check other people...
Eomer: just 4 minutes after Naria, with no reason at all!
Thinlomien; voting for me twice, with no better reasons- but seeing that I was getting killed.
Loki: taking his chances - I won't blame him for that: reasonable vote - for a newbie...

EDIT: X-posted with lots of stuff...

[Celuien]

Who knows? There's no need to take a risk when the EW can just create another wolf at night, but then again- if the EW makes a strong defense of a wolf and then it is found out that the person was indeed a wolf through lynching, many people might think- "Um, I don't think the EW would've been defending that wolf so heavily, it's not worth the risk, therefore so-and-so probably isn't the EW."
That's true, but I think that there are less suspicion raising and simpler ways to make a good defense against wizardry. Unless the EW is a very bold, very brash sort, of course.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Okay, some thoughts.

I can see an innocent Lhuna saying those things that she said toDay. I can also see a wolvish Lhuna acting that way, but I need to take a look at other Villagers, too, before I decide anything.

About Nogrod, I haven't had the chance to get to know him well so I have to trust other people's word on this which I hate doing since I can't know if they're on the Evil side or not. However, I, too, had the impression that he's usually more vocal and in the center of events. If he's been busy as he says, it explains quite a lot, though.

Sauce, for one, isn't acting like I would have expected. It's mostly just a feeling, but it's a bad feeling, mind you. I've heard that he has a habit of looking things from different angles, but he seems surprisingly confident that his theory about the possible EW is right. Still, he makes some points that I agree with, and my consolation is that I believe that once we get our Seer, they'll find out his true nature.

Loki seems to be in calmer mood than earlier and I find that kind of soothing although that's what any Wolf would do under suspicion.

I predict that I'm cross-posting with about everyone in this Village, and I'll continue gathering my thoughts after I've read all those replies.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Nogrod, like I said: To my mind, you would be a good pick for the EW. I voted for you out of everyone on my list because you had a vote already, and I wanted to narrow the suspect list down (like Firefoot suggested). In that case, it was you or Oddwen; and because Lommy (a close friend of yours, I believe) had been voicing concerns about you I thought it might be a decent hunch.

I don't see why, if you are innocent, the village should spend their time slaying those who voted for you. Pretty much every single voter is going to be mistaken on Day One!

You fit my criteria; I am not at all eager to see you die. I must vote for someone.

[Valier]

OK well today has been a busy one and I have found it hard to keep up...So I will tell you what I think about each person nominated for lynching.

Nogrod: I think he has been a little odd, but I still think he is innocent...as of now anyways...According to my lore book, he tends to be suspected a lot and is often lynched..so I don't think he would make a good baddie in the eyes of the EW.

Loki: It irritates me when people have rash behaviors towards others, and all the I told you so's were unnecessary. The vote for Nogrod suggest an easy vote for someone to prevent his own death, as the majority is for lynching Nogrod.

Lommy: Seems sane enough for now...I tend to agree with her on most things as it is said in the lore books, so I will not vote for her today.

SPM: Now here's one who has pulled shenanigans before....according to lovebooks again, so I find what he says most of the time reasonable, but he is a shifty one I tells ya...

On the others...I have nothing definitive on them yet, as this day has been long..but will look at more closely in days to come..

So I will be voting for either Loki or SPM, both I find equally threatening...I will be back shortly to vote...

[Firefoot]

Nogrod – 5 (Nilp 1, Naria 10, Eomer 11, Lommy 12, Loki 16)
Eomer – 1 (Lhuna 2)
Lommy – 4 (Gurthang 3, Kath 14, Celuien 20, Firefoot 21)
Nilp – 1 (Eonwe 5)
Oddwen – 2 Cailin 6, Glirdan 18)
Loki – 5 (Diamond 4, Caran 7, Fea 15, Nogrod 17, Lalaith 19)
SpM – 2 (Jenny 8, Alcarillo 13)
Kath – 1 (Morm 9)

++Lommy

I've had a bad feeling about her that's been growing all Day. She just seems to be objecting to many of the 'wrong' things, and her posts have been standing out to me above most of the others.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I understand the bad feeling about Thinlomien, but in my previous experience, she always gives me a bad feeling. :p

If I had the choice, I certainly wouldn't curse her because she is one of those villagers good at getting into trouble [read: getting lynched]. That's why I think the EW stayed away from her.

[Nogrod]

Just an update on the votes so far...

Loki – 8 (Diamond 4, Caran 7, Fea 15, Nogrod 17, Lalaith 19, Valier 23, Kitanna 24, Zali 25)

Nogrod – 6 (Nilp 1, Naria 10, Eomer 11, Lommy 12, Loki, Roa 27)

Lommy – 4 (Gurthang 3, Kath 14, Celuien 20, Firefoot 21)

SpM – 2 (Jenny 8, Alcarillo 13)
Oddwen – 2 (Cailin 6, Glirdan 18)

Eomer – 1 (Lhuna 2)
Nilp – 1 (Eonwe 5)
Kath – 1 (Morm 9)
Alcarillo - 1 (Spm 22)
Lhuna -1 (Spawn 26)

EDIT: As I say it later on the thread, this is a wrong one being here: I mishappily edited this one as I should have quoted it. Not the first time I've done that. *shame*

[The Saucepan Man]

I have only had a chance to briefly scan recent posts and my other wife (the real Mrs Saucepan) is clamouring for my attention.

Suffice it to say that the speculation about the time that I have to keep up with a game such as this is well wide of the mark.

Sticking with my list:

+ + ALCARILLO

Not because he voted for me, but because he would have been one of my Night 1 picks for a Wolf, were I the Evil Wizard.

[Valier]

Well I will not be able to read all that has happened over again before the deadline I must go with my gut...Rightness overrules rudness...I agree with SPM again on his last post, I as well have Alcarillo on my "would pick" list, and will be keeping my eyes on him tomorrow, but today I will go with my sister Fea on this one and vote for the newbie..sorry, but overly abrasive people are no fun to play with!

++Loki

Hope we catch one! Goodnight all, I'm off to fill my belly with bright green vegetables...good for the eyes...keeps you alert!

[Kitanna]

Well, there certainly is a lot to look over and unfortunately I will never get through a thorough reading before voting is closed. I've looked over Nogrod, Lommy, and Loki's posts since those three have the most votes thus far.
I hate bandwagoning, but time constrictions of this day have made it very hard for me to keep up with everything that has gone on, so I'm going to go with the person I voiced suspcions of early today.

++ Loki
As I said earlier today his first few posts gave me an uneasy feeling.
I am, obviously, the best pick(And, being newest to the forums) and least suspicious of the group. Chances are good that I would not have been considered to be anything evil and wrong... just yet
That comment is really what has me worried the most. I just feel like he's trying to lead us to completely believe that since he is new there is no why he's the one we're looking for.

cross-posted with Valier

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I think that finding the evil wizard is the most important thing to do, but we have so little to go on.

That said, I am going to vote

++Loki

because his behavior is, perhaps intentionally, confusing. His state of being as a newbie has no relation to this vote. His irritibility and aggression, and sudden shift of mood is worrisome. If this is an act, to what purpose does it serve? My instincts say he's not the evil wizard, but he's gathered the most suspicion of anyone from me today. I don't like that he and a few other people have turned into bandwaggons, since if they turn out innocent, the first people to fall under suspicion are those who hopped on board. However, I have genuine suspicion and worry about him, and I'm not making this vote just as an act of, "oh, hey. Everyone else is voting, so he must be bad".

I'm sorry if this looks rushed, as I have to be somewhere in a couple of minutes. Apologies about my level of participation toDay. I hope to be on more frequently toMorrow.

EDIT: Cross-posted with Kitanna and Valier

[the phantom]

Sticking with my list:

+ + ALCARILLO

Not because he voted for me, but because he would have been one of my Night 1 picks for a Wolf, were I the Evil Wizard.
Your earlier list-
Azaelia, Oddwen, Alcarillo, Roa, Diamond or Gurthang
I don't think I've commented on it, so I will now.

Your picks are similar to mine. If I was the EW, I would've picked Diamond, Celuien, and Azaelia to be my wolves, and two of those three are on your short list.

And, after thinking about it, despite the risks that others are inclined to point out, I would've considered Loki as well, either because of his "newbie" status (hoping people will leave him alive for a while), or to use as "cannon-fodder", as Lalaith suggested.

But, on the issue of his claim of being the person who was cursed and then uncursed- if I was the GW I would not have picked him, so I'm not sure what to think.

Of course, the fact that I wouldn't have picked him doesn't mean that someone else wouldn't have. I can think of two, possibly three people who I would suspect might pick Loki as the Seer, so he could very well be telling the truth.

Oh, and thanks to those of you who are keeping a running vote tally. It's helpful.

[Firefoot]

Sorry my child, I have not voted for myself... Wow. :rolleyes:

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

I need to go to sleep, but I find choosing the receiver of my vote quite problematic. ToDay's voting seems to be culminating around Loki, Lommy and Nogrod, but since I haven't been suspecting any of them very seriously, I feel disqualified deciding who of them should die, especially since I don't have time (nor can stay awake) for analysing them myself.

If this looks like a cop-out vote, it most likely is one, too, but I'm sticking with my first suspect of toDay.

++Lhuna

Good Night!


edit: cross-posted a lot.

[Roa_Aoife]

I'm afraid I'm very pressed for time right now. I have done a thorough re-reading of the posts, and I have to say that I do not find Loki suspicious. His style reminds me of Garin, a prominent figure in my werewolf lorebook, who re-appears in village after village. If my reading serves me correctly, Garin was never guilty, but often appeared so because of his abrasive attitude. He died at the hands of a lynch mob everytime. I don't think Loki would be foolish enough to lie about that. Afterall, we know that it happened to someone, and as no one has come forward to refute his claim, I have no reason to doubt him. Honestly, a lie like is far too bold- even for me, and that's saying something.

So, assuming Loki's innocense, I look to those most eager to lynch him. Nogrod has been questioning Loki's claim from the start, never even asking the "true" convert to come forward. Certainly this person has nothing to fear, as the wizards already know who he/she is. I find it odd that Nogrod over looked this. Also, he held off his vote to point when it was clear the mob was set upon Loki- behavior I find far too careful for Nogrod's usual style. That's why I'm going to vote

++Nogrod

I'll be around more on Day 2, I promise. Good night everyone!

[Celuien]

1. Nilp --> Nogrod (Nogrod 1)
2. Lhuna --> Eomer (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1)
3. Gurthang --> Lommy (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1)
4. Diamond --> Loki (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 1)
5. Eonwe --> Nilp (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 1, Nilp 1)
6. Cailín --> Oddwen (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 1, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1)
7. Caran --> Loki (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1)
8. Jenny --> SPM (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1)
9. Morm --> Kath (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1, Kath 1)
10. Naria --> Nogrod (Nogrod 2, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1, Kath 1)
11. Eomer --> Nogrod (Nogrod 3, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1, Kath 1)
12. Lommy --> Nogrod (Nogrod 4, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1, Kath 1)
13. Alcarillo --> SPM (Nogrod 4, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)
14. Kath --> Lommy (Nogrod 4, Eomer 1, Lommy 2, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)
15. Fea --> Loki (Nogrod 4, Eomer 1, Lommy 2, Loki 3, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)
16. Loki --> Nogrod (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 2, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)
17. Nogrod --> Loki (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 2, Loki 4, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)
18. Glirdan --> Oddwen (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 2, Loki 4, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1, Oddwen 1)
19. Lalaith --> Loki (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 2, Loki 5, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)
20. Celuien --> Lommy (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 3, Loki 4, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)
21. Firefoot --> Lommy (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 4, Loki 4, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)
22. SPM --> Alcarillo (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 4, Loki 4, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1, Alcarillo 1)
23. Valier --> Loki (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 4, Loki 6, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1, Alcarillo 1)
24. Kitanna --> Loki (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 4, Loki 7, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1, Alcarillo 1)
25. Azaelia --> Loki (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 4, Loki 8, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1, Alcarillo 1)
26. Spawn --> Lhuna (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 4, Loki 8, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1, Alcarillo 1, Lhuna 1)
27. Roa --> Nogrod (Nogrod 6, Eomer 1, Lommy 4, Loki 8, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1, Alcarillo 1, Lhuna 1)

[Nogrod]

Just an update on the votes so far...

Loki – 8 (Diamond 4, Caran 7, Fea 15, Nogrod 17, Lalaith 19, Valier 23, Kitanna 24, Zali 25)

Nogrod – 6 (Nilp 1, Naria 10, Eomer 11, Lommy 12, Loki, Roa 27)

Lommy – 4 (Gurthang 3, Kath 14, Celuien 20, Firefoot 21)

SpM – 2 (Jenny 8, Alcarillo 13)
Oddwen – 2 (Cailin 6, Glirdan 18)

Eomer – 1 (Lhuna 2)
Nilp – 1 (Eonwe 5)
Kath – 1 (Morm 9)
Alcarillo - 1 (Spm 22)
Lhuna -1 (Spawn 26)

Sorry: I edited this same tally to my earlier post too... Well, these happen,

[Celuien]

Your picks are similar to mine. If I was the EW, I would've picked Diamond, Celuien, and Azaelia to be my wolves, and two of those three are on your short list.
I guess I know you're not the EW then. :p :D

[Loki]

Well, that's a buzz-kill. Celuien just posted the list I was going to put up.

It's obvious to me now that I'm going to be lynched. Good job, everyone. Way to screw up from the start. Figures that the evil team is going to get a head start just because you all didn't like my attitude. Should've listened to the logical voices. I had no reason to lie about anything.

Ah, well, nothing I can say matters now. Don't hurt too bad when you're kicking yourselves for this.

Because I don't have the time to finish my full post of reasoning and insight...
My list of suspicion:

Nogrod seems devilishly evil. Chances are good that he's something on the bad side. I don't trust him one bit.

Diamond, while simply following exactly what she had said, still grates on my mind.

Roa, a key player, made precious little voice here. Unusual to my ears. Eyes. Whatever.

The other voices simply echoed what had already been said in a failing analysis of the plot. Little can be judged of them further from the way that they vote. Most of the people who voted for me were simply jumping on the bandwagon. Look to the ringleaders if you want to find your source of malice.

All that remains now is for the truth to be revealed...

[the phantom]

It's been an interesting day. Maybe tomorrow we won't have to fly so blind.

I'll go ahead and cast a throw away vote.

+ + Roa

...because Roa is a Wizard, of course.

Azaelia, you can sleep easy tonight, for I will be sitting up all night looking out my window towards your house. If any wolves try and assault it, I'll know, and my brother Eomer and I will slice them to bits!

Alca and Cai, I'll keep an eye out for you, too. My dear Mum and Dad mean a lot to me.

[Celuien]

I'll be sorry to see you go so soon, Loki. While I still have my doubts about your GW pick story, I don't think you're a wolf.

If you are a wolf, then good riddance, but I have a feeling this isn't going to be the case.

[littlemanpoet]

And that's all for toDay, folks. Voting is now over. Any votes that appear after this one will NOT be counted.

Stay tuned for a narration of Day One's many and varied activities, discussions ... oh, and a lynching.

EDIT: I should add this:

Evil Wizard: pick a player to curse.
Good Wizard: pick a player to scry.
Werewolves: nominate a player to kill.

[littlemanpoet]

Loki the leech collector, it turned out, received less than half of the votes of the village. Nevertheless, eight was enough. He was a relatively unknown soul, having been away for years on journeys, the destinations of which, he kept to himself. Why he was named so, none knew. There was no such creature as a 'Loki' in any of the lorebooks: no werewolf, no wizard, no Ainur, no servant of Morgoth. Maybe, some supposed, the name was derived from the Common Speech, and meant a key that was not high up. Others scoffed at this notion as being too commonplace. Loki disabused neither opinion of its illusions. After all, he kept most things to himself, save his opinions of the other villagers. They did not take kindly to his airing of them. Especially one such aired that very morning.

"By Eru, both of those wizards must have been vying for the collection of my soul this night. Visions of fur and claw and tooth dominated my mind; I couldn't catch a wink. The wizarding pair of which the Watchers spoke must have lost nearly as much sleep as I in fighting over the reclaimation of my soul." He kicked a nearby puppy that had dared cross his path in the early morning. "Thankfully, perhaps, I neither lost my life in the scrap nor transformed into one of those foul lycanthropes."

"So you say, Loki," Nogrod grated. "So you say."

Celuien and her father mormegil pointed their fingers at Eomer. "You're wolfish toward our Kitanna!"

"But we're in love!" he countered. "Just ask her!"

"She can't think straight," Celuien returned, eyeing Eomer narrowly.

More recriminations passed between family units, but finally and mercifully lost venom and bite, for some of the villagers began to turn their minds and the talk to strategy. Gurthang started it.

"It's those blasted wizards, I tell you! That's the core of this problem. Those Watchers told us this would happen, and here it is. And what's worse? We can't even get rid of this Evil fellow ourselves! The Good Wizard has to do it for us. And until that time, we won't have any clue what's happening. Until the wizards are gone."

"To figure the wizards out," said the phantom, gathering in the attention of the others with quick glances to each in turn, "all you have to do is think about what the two wizards fear."

"Each other?" asked Naria.

"It's all about balance," the phantom intoned sagely.

"That's all well and good, phantom," momma Diamond said, "but I've consulted my Werewolf lorebooks, and they say: When a red fox and a brown cow frolic in the ocean, you will know who the Wizards are." Diamond screwed up her face in confusion and frowned crossly. "Bloody lot of help the lorebooks turned out to be." She threw her lorebook into the fire and the whole village watched it burn, most of them wishing it was the evil wizard.

Diamond's eldest daughter Lhuna was the first to break the silence. "Well, the wizards are standing with us. Why doesn't the good wizard just come forward and help us out?"

"Not so hasty!" the aged Cailín cried. "The young! Ack! Always ready to jump into the frying pan before the fire's been cooled!"

Nilpaurion stepped forward. "I'm a wizard."

"Which one! Which one!" the villagers cried.

"Of apathy. You know you're going to lynch me."

They stared at him for one pregnant moment.

"Ah, he's just faking," said Celuien.

At this point, the village debaters got hungry and thirsty, and they retired to the Salty Seal to refresh their minds and put an end to their famishing. Saucy held forth under his own roof, declaring whom he thought the evil wizard would pick as werewolves, but did not find much support. The villagers did, however, support his brewer's reputation by quaffing a healthy amount of his beers and ales, even little Lommy, who did agree with Saucy, though the others wrote this off to her inability to hold her ale well.

The votes began to pile up. Six suspects quickly received one vote each, which meant nothing and they all knew it. There was a gentle murmur as suddenly Loki received a second vote. Two more suspects were added to the list before Nogrod joined Loki with multiple votes. The crowed murmured. Diamond was heard to complain that she was not too keen on losing both her father and her husband in one day. Apparently, she was not heeded as her husband quickly garnered a small lead in the votes. The beerhall owner himself gained another vote, as well as his young little supporter Lommy, which drew the wrath of Roa, who insisted that her husband Sleepy would agree with her had he been in town, but he was wandering for the day for old time's sake. After a few more votes, Loki and Nogrod were again tied. Lommy received two more votes, then Loki a few more, with late votes for Lhuna and Roa, and a final for Nogrod. The result was decisive but not overly so.

"Loki," mormegil said, "today is your last day to leech. Speak your peace to whatever Vala you hold sacred."

"That would be not a Vala but Eru. I have done so."

As the sun was setting, the villagers led Loki, now bound, to the tallest tree, a beech, that spread its branches both high and wide. One branch extended like a giant's muscular arm, ten feet above the ground. A rope was slung over the branch and tied tight, then knotted and placed around Loki's neck. They stood him on a makeshift stool.

"Any last words?" mormegil asked.

"Yes. You'll be sorry."

"Zali," said mormegil, "you cast the final vote. Remove the stool."

She grimaced. "Do I have to?"

"I'll do it!" cried the phantom. Without a moment's hesitation, he saved his dearest from having to do the ugly deed, and kicked the stool out from under their victim. He dropped. His neck broke. All watched to see if he would change. He did not.

The villagers filed to their homes, leaving the unfortunate Loki to hang, and the late Elempi sprawled, still, at the base of the Watcher rock.

~ The Dead ~

Elempi, father of Diamond of the Battledore
Loki the leech collector

~ The Living ~

Diamond of the Battledore
Celuien the Healer and Cupper
Caranlondien the Sled-Team Driver
Roa Aoife the weaver
Nogrod the retired jester
Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant the Baker
Kath the minstrel
Lommy the little girl who steals other children's candy
Lhunardawen the jeweler
Glirdan with the giant crush on Kath
Valier the gardener
Sleepy Ranger the former wanderer
Kitanna the beloved of Eomer
Firefoot the artist
Alcarillo the old retired sea captain
Cailín the match maker
Oddwen the filthy, insane street urchin who steals chickens
mormegil the retired mariner and current mayor
Feanor the shepherdess with a love of alliteration
Zali the seamstress and beloved of the phantom
the phantom the loud, unpredictable, adventurer
Naria the servant who empties and cleans chamber pots
Jenny Hallu the unmarried maiden & aunt
The Saucepan Man the barkeep
Lalaith the frivolous aunt and guardian of Oddwen
Eonwe the freeloading husband of Lhunardawen
Eomer the adventurer & lover of Kitanna
Nilpaurion the ne'er do well hubby of Dancing Spawn
Gurthang the stable-hand

[littlemanpoet]

The evil wizard sucked in breath in anticipation of the second kill. From this one's life also the evil wizard would get strength for spells. The evil wizard spoke to the werewolves and commanded them to choose one villager to eat, bringing back one thing only from the kill.

They went out into the darkness and were silent in their hunting, coming at an hour past midnight to the house of the one whom they would devour.

The good wizard gave serious thought to whom to scry. It took a few hours to come to a conclusion. The scry was made. The villager scried was ordinary. The good wizard gifted the villager to be the seer. The only problem was that by the time this occurred, it was mere minutes before dawn. The seer didn't dream.

The Saucepan Man's given name had been long forgotten. In the days of his youth he had left the village, as many were wont to do, and wandered in foreign parts to see what new lore he could discover regarding the prophesied curse upon Sealville. He was gone for two years.

When he returned, there were not a few who decided that he'd gotten 'tetched' in the noggin, as they called it. He had arrived back in Sealville carrying a half dozen saucepans, and told everyone that he would not respond to any other name than The Saucepan Man, or derivatives thereof. "What are you wanting with so many saucepans?" they asked. "Never you mind," he answered. "But there's another reason for my name," he added mysteriously with a smirk.

It was not long before the villagers understood what he meant. He set himself up as the local barkeep, and created many a fine drink, be they beers, ales, or more exotic delectables. He called them all his "sauce". So they took to calling him Saucy. He seemed to like it well enough, and grinned when named so.

The Healer and Cupper in town, Celuien, turned her head in his direction, for his business was solid and he was not half bad looking a fellow for all his saucey talk. Mormegil, her father, wasn't sure he liked the fellow so much as being a barkeep was not as good in his eye as being a mariner, but Celuien was determined, and finally Mormegil gave his blessing. The two were married with great celebration, and in another couple years, the sisters Naria and Kitanna graced the home and hearth and filled it with laughter.

Saucy considered himself a happy man, blessed with a healer for a wife and two daughters that took their looks more from their mother than their father, which was a good thing. Naria and Kitanna flowered into beautiful young ladies, bringing into the lives of their parents the complications in the case of Kitanna the attentions of Eomer the young rapscallion; in the case of Naria a job so smelly that the men stayed far away. "Maybe she wants it that way," Celuien was overheard to tell her husband. "Well and good, I say," Saucy responded. "until she's found the right man." "If she finds one," her mother worried.

So it was a sad morning for Celuien, Naria, and Kitanna, when the villagers filed just after dawn to the Watcher rock and found sprawled there the body of Saucy. Celuien wailed. Naria and Kitanna wept into their kerchiefs. Not only had his face been clawed and his limbs reduced to rags of flesh; his chest had been opened and his heart removed.

"Villains!" cried Celuien. "Murderers!" wailed Naria. "Monsters!" shouted Kitanna, raising her fist.

Eomer put his arm around his love and she wept upon his shoulder. "Come, Celuien, Naria, I cannot replace your husband and father, but I will do what I can."

EDIT: Only then did the villagers notice that the body of Elempi no longer lay in front of the Watchers, who seemed as sad, and watchful, and unmoving, as ever. Then they noticed that where there had been an open commons of grass, there were now two headstones and brown earth heaped before them. The villagers noticed that there was much room left in this new graveyard for more bodies. Many of them shuddered. Two headstones. As they filed back from the shoreline toward the village, they noticed with no surprise that Loki no longer hung from the beech tree limb. They knew where he was. And they believed that they knew who had buried them.

~ The Tally ~
One Evil Wizard
One Good Wizard
Three Werewolves
One Gifted
Zero Known Innocents
Three Dead
Twenty-Eight Living

~ The Dead ~

Elempi, father of Diamond of the Battledore: killed on Night One
Loki the leech collector: lynched on Day One with 8 votes
The Saucepan Man the barkeep: killed on Night Two

~ The Living ~

Diamond of the Battledore
Celuien the Healer and Cupper
Caranlondien the Sled-Team Driver
Roa Aoife the weaver
Nogrod the retired jester
Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant the Baker
Kath the minstrel
Lommy the little girl who steals other children's candy
Lhunardawen the jeweler
Glirdan with the giant crush on Kath
Valier the gardener
Sleepy Ranger the former wanderer
Kitanna the beloved of Eomer
Firefoot the artist
Alcarillo the old retired sea captain
Cailín the match maker
Oddwen the filthy, insane street urchin who steals chickens
mormegil the retired mariner and current mayor
Feanor the shepherdess with a love of alliteration
Zali the seamstress and beloved of the phantom
the phantom the loud, unpredictable, adventurer
Naria the servant who empties and cleans chamber pots
Jenny Hallu the unmarried maiden & aunt
Lalaith the frivolous aunt and guardian of Oddwen
Eonwe the freeloading husband of Lhunardawen
Eomer the adventurer & lover of Kitanna
Nilpaurion the ne'er do well hubby of Dancing Spawn
Gurthang the stable-hand

[Diamond18]

NOTICE: I wrote this without knowing who would die, so my responses to SpM will look odd. But I thought I’d leave them in there because they include some of my opinions on Wizards.

Oh, and poor SpM. My condolences to his family. Though I’m sure Morm is doing a little jig. ;)


Since I was away for much of the peak discussion time (four pages, people!!!!) I have some belated comments and replies from yesterDay.


Now, phantom makes the situation sound pretty bright for us, but that's what the Evil Wizard would like to do; to make the Villagers believe that we don't have much to be scared of.

I don’t quite follow this logic. I didn’t find tp’s posts to be particularly EWish yesterDay, especially since he advocated revealing the Wizards. I think the EW is aiming for the most discretion. So I’m not sure why you would want to cast EW suspicions his way for doing pretty much the opposite of what I’d suspect the EW to be saying.


Yet it is not village affairs that have guided the Evil Wizard’s hand, I am sure, but cold, hard logic.

Or not. You can’t know that for sure. The EW might make some wild moves to keep away from the scent of those looking for logic.


Were I the Evil Wizard, I would have chosen from the following villagers:

Cailín, Lalaith, Caranlondien, Celuien, Valier, Kitanna, Azaelia or Naria, Oddwen, Alcarillo, Roa, Firefoot, Diamond and Gurthang.

I do think this is a sensible list. From a logical standpoint. But it might also be a good idea, if the EW manages to get a good sized pack of wolves, to throw some high profile players into the mix to use them, essentially, as meat puppets. Also, to prevent them from being Gifteds.


Gurthang was, I think, the first to bring up the idea of looking for the Wizards. My initial reaction was to suspect him for it. I still do, slightly, since he was talking about finding both Wizards. I think we should, as far as we can, try to avoid identifying the Good Wizard, at this stage at least. With no Gifteds and two Wolves to hide among a great number of villagers, the Evil Wizard might fancy his/her chances at this point and call the Good Wizard out. Even if s/he does not, identifying the GW would still allow the EW to pick his/her time, provided s/he remains hidden. For this reason, I am also wary of Lhuna’s suggestion that the GW might want to declare today.

This, I find strange. As I said to Fea above, I think the EW will be advocating discretion, since keeping people away from looking for and talking about wizardly behavior. I find it unlikely that you would be made the Evil Wizard, however, since you are the most Evil person here to begin with. :p So I’m not sure what to make of this reluctance.


And why, may I ask, are you attacking my siblings? What has my family ever done to yours to deserve this kind of treatment?

Ah, if I’m allowed a bit of frivolity on Day 2 -- it’s only natural, Glirdan, that our families should be at odds. We’re the two largest units, ergo there must be a fight for supremacy. Or at least, there would have been if everyone had not been so agreeable about my list and refuse to engage in family feuding. :) But now we’re kind of past the Day 1 fun of family voting blocks, so it doesn’t much matter anymore.


I also agree with whomever it was that mentioned searching out the wizards. It gives us a legitimate project for day one. It will put them off guard. Sure, it would mean sacrificing the good wizard in all probability, but since the good wizard lives to die in such a way, I won't feel too badly about it. Consider: who would expect that an entire village would gang up on their wizards? Surely we would want to keep our good wizard around. Blah blah pros and cons blah blah. With the pressure of an entire village actively seeking, the evil wizard will have to be REALLY good to avoid screwing up.

Not much more to say except that I agree with this and am of basically the same mind. The GW lives to be martyred in order to cease the creation of Wolves. Nuff said.


Phantom=EW would lead to a resounding villager victory, I assure you.

I tend to agree with this, in the sense that tp is one of the ones more likely to be found out by the GW or Seer pretty quickly. Which is why I doubt that he would have been selected for this role. However, just so we’re not disregarding every possibility, we have to remember that in this village there are many players with equally or more prominent reputations than tp, so with all these illustrious veterans for wizard and seer to choose from, you can’t automatically assume that tp couldn’t get by.

Still, I think it unlikely that the Mod God would choose him to be the EW. However, I think it highly likely that he’d be chosen to be the GW. Make of that what you will.


The evil wizard (okay... speaking plainly now...) volunteered for the job. The evil wizard, ergo, is somebody with a bit of time on his or her hands at the moment. The evil wizard is probably not going to be one of the students playing with finals coming up. The evil wizard is probably not going to be somebody that can't guarantee specific hours during the day in which to take care of wizarding business. The evil wizard (and the good, yes, the good) are going to be players with a bit of time to spare.

I’m not sure this is the best way to go about figuring out the Wizards. Really, everyone has a life to attend to. Maybe we can rule out those really strapped for time, but how many is that, anyway? Judging from the massive amount of posting, I’d say the number of people with time enough for wizarding is enough that paying too much attention to this criteria might not be as helpful as you think. Especially since no one really has the best handle on other people’s schedules.


By deleting from my previous list those who I think the GW might pick as a choice of Gifted, I can narrow it down further, as follows:

Azaelia, Oddwen, Alcarillo, Roa, Diamond or Gurthang

So, you don’t think we’re good enough for the Good Wizard? Meh.


Celuien, Caranlondien, Roa, Nogrod, Alcarillo, Cailín, Oddwen, Jenny, Lalaith or Gurthang.

Others are more likely to be lynched early on, or dreamed about by a Seer, or scried by the GW.

Out of curiosity, since I’m not on your list, which of those three alternatives do I fall under? (Narcissist much, Diamond?)


Breezed through the posts real quick, much suprised by everyone's reactions. Mostly that no one had considered that, in fact, I was telling the truth. No one had considered that my defensiveness is a matter of a far more personal nature, and I came into the game dead-set of simply playing to my personality. No one considered that I was operating solely on instinct.

Strange replying to a dead man, but since this applies somewhat to reasons I and others had for voting him (which will no doubt come under scrutiny toDay) I wanted to point out that this is completely false. People did consider it. I thought it quite possible that he was being truthful. I just said we shouldn’t rush to believe him automatically. So, as I said when I voted, that wasn’t even my main motivation for voting. My main reason was because, in lieu of any serious suspicions of anyone else, I felt most comfortable for voting off a person I felt endangered the focus and sanity of the village. No matter what his motivations were.


So, assuming Loki's innocense, I look to those most eager to lynch him.

Well, I figured you’d say that. I’ve been kind of thinking that you’re the friend who invited him -- I found the unwillingness to share that info somewhat strange and overly mysterious and I have more to say on this later -- but anyway, I’ve said why I was eager to lynch him and it stands, for better or worse. His last post just reinforced my “good riddance” attitude. Innocent or not, in a situation where it was pretty likely an innocent would be lynched (with 26 innocents to 2 werewolves and 2 wizards, the chances of losing an innocent were extremely, ridiculously high) I was quite comfortable with losing him as opposed to anyone else. You won’t see me kicking myself over it.


Your picks are similar to mine. If I was the EW, I would've picked Diamond, Celuien, and Azaelia to be my wolves, and two of those three are on your short list.

Which confirms my thought that you are not, in fact, the Evil Wizard.


...because Roa is a Wizard, of course.

At the risk of sounding too eager to agree with tp all the time, I have to say I was thinking this, too. I figured, if Loki was picked by both Wizards the first Night like he said, one of the Wizards might be the friend who invited him to join our village -- because despite the possibilities expressed, I personally think him an odd choice for the Wizards, logically speaking. So, I feel that if he was indeed picked, it was not entirely logical on the part of one Wizard, hence friendship could be involved. That’s the only reason I could think of for concealing that matter. If this “friend” had aspirations to be a Wizard, they wouldn’t want people having a chance of making this connection. But since I was making the connection, I really wanted to figure out who that friend might be, and I decided on either Roa or Gurthang, the only two who seemed to feel the need to defend Loki’s behavior before and after the event of Elempi’s murder.

So anyway, that’s my crackpot theory.

[Diamond18]

By the by, O Mysterious Voice from the Heavens:

Don't we get to know about the creation of any more wolves or Gifteds? I was assuming that the sort of narration we got for Night 1 (which told us that three wolves had been created but then one wolf had been turned back into an ordo) would be repeated each Day opener.

[littlemanpoet]

Good point. I shall fix the Day Two narration. My fault. :rolleyes:

[Celuien]

You cruel monsters! You've taken one I loved more dear than my own life. Hear me now - at the moment you struck your blow to my husband, you earned my undying wrath, and I will never rest until justice is done, or death takes me!

But why my poor, harmless Saucy? I know his mind was feared, for he was a man of great intellect. But why now, so soon after the curse fell, and after he came under suspicion yesterday? There are others equally to be feared by the wolves in this village. He might have had something right yesterday - too right for his own good. I'll go back to look over his last words and see if I can learn anything.

Justice!

[Celuien]

SPM:
63: Pointed out that the EW was unlikely to select likely Seer dream candidates or likely lynching targets. Doubted Loki was chosen by the EW. Provided this list of possible EW picks:

1 of Cailín, Lalaith, Caranlondien or Celuien
1 of Valier, Kitanna, Azaelia or Naria, Oddwen, or Alcarillo
1 of Roa, Firefoot, Diamond or Gurthang

Wanted to unearth the EW.

64: Initial suspicion of Gurthang for bringing up searching for the wizard because he included both the EW and GW in his plan. Suggests that the GW should remain hidden, was therefore wary of Lhuna for suggesting that the GW should declare.

114: Said that the EW almost certainly has experience with werewolves, doubts that anyone likely to be scryed of dreamed of early is the EW. Finds it unlikely that any “big names” were selected night one due to risk of dream/lynching and there is plenty of time to recruit from the “big names.” Says Loki is disregarded as a wolf because he is a likely day 1 lynch. Says that Azaelia, Oddwen, Alcarillo, Roa, Diamond or Gurthang are the most likely to have been chosen by the EW since they are the ones from his prior list least likely to have been chosen by the GW as gifteds.

117: Wants to avoid deliberately outing the GW, replies to Jenny about his opinions of Loki. Doesn’t want to vote for Oddwen as he feels her non-vote makes her too conspicuous to be a likely move for a wolf.

193: Vote for Alcarillo because he would have been one of SPM’s picks if he had been the EW.

If I operate under the assumption that SPM was killed for getting something right, this looks bad for Azaelia, Oddwen, Alcarillo, Roa, Diamond or Gurthang. I wonder, though, if Alcarillo would have agreed to the wolvish plan of attack on Saucy as it’s a little too risky a position to put him in since he voted for SPM yesterday as well as being voted for by SPM.

Back later…

[Glirdan]

Tis a sad day in this village, a very sad day for we have lost not only our bartender, but one of those whose aid we really could have used. My condolences go out to all of his family.

Oh, and poor SpM. My condolences to his family. Though I’m sure Morm is doing a little jig.(Diamond)

Now I don't mean to sound accusatory, but is it possible that this father in-law could possilby have taken the life of his son in-law? I mean, he never liked SpM, so how do we know that he didn't go after SpM out of pure spite?

Originally Posted by SpM
Yet it is not village affairs that have guided the Evil Wizard’s hand, I am sure, but cold, hard logic.

Or not. You can’t know that for sure. The EW might make some wild moves to keep away from the scent of those looking for logic.(Diamond)


And this is a reason why I'm hesitant to cast suspicion upon morm for it could very well be that the EW chose SpM because he's dangerous and smart.

At the risk of sounding too eager to agree with tp all the time, I have to say I was thinking this, too. I figured, if Loki was picked by both Wizards the first Night like he said, one of the Wizards might be the friend who invited him to join our village -- because despite the possibilities expressed, I personally think him an odd choice for the Wizards, logically speaking. So, I feel that if he was indeed picked, it was not entirely logical on the part of one Wizard, hence friendship could be involved. That’s the only reason I could think of for concealing that matter. If this “friend” had aspirations to be a Wizard, they wouldn’t want people having a chance of making this connection. But since I was making the connection, I really wanted to figure out who that friend might be, and I decided on either Roa or Gurthang, the only two who seemed to feel the need to defend Loki’s behavior before and after the event of Elempi’s murder.(Diamond)

You know, this theory isn't as far fetched as it sounds. This could possibly be true. I'm pretty sure, however, that my mother has no connection to this "Loki" character. Nowhere in my lorebooks does it say that these two have any connection. But we can't be to certain of this. Mother, are you hiding something from us?

I'm afraid to say that I shall be going on a little trip for two days or so (that would be the next [possible] four days in RL) so I will not be able to contirbute much and I will also have to make a rather early vote for toDay. Mother, Father, I'm sorry about the short notice of this but I've actually been planning it for about a week now. I need to get away to think. Please don't worry. Lommy, don't worry about me, I'll be fine. Don't forget that your brother will always be there for you. Cara, please take good care of our family.

I will be back with a vote tally from yesterDay and compare it to that list which Celuien has just put up.

[littlemanpoet]

If you have not noticed it, please do take note of an italicized edit to the Day Two Begins post above. I apologize for my forgetfulness and any resulting confusion.

[Diamond18]

If I operate under the assumption that SPM was killed for getting something right, this looks bad for Azaelia, Oddwen, Alcarillo, Roa, Diamond or Gurthang. I wonder, though, if Alcarillo would have agreed to the wolvish plan of attack on Saucy as it’s a little too risky a position to put him in since he voted for SPM yesterday as well as being voted for by SPM.

Thanks for the review -- I'd just finished going through everything and writing up my long post, so I had a little inward groan at the thought of going back to make an overview of SpM's posts. :)

Now, as to your conclusion. This is possible -- but consider that not only Alcarillo has reason to be wary of killing SpM. Everyone he mentions has reason. My lorebook (a bit singed but otherwise none the worse for wear) notes that often people are killed to divert suspicion onto those they were erroneously pointing fingers at. In fact, an ancestor of mine was killed for a somewhat simliar reason, prior to her death she pointed fingers at three people in particular, none of whom turned out guilty.

Of coures, due to this we now have the opportunity for double bluffing. I.E. "People will think it would be too bold for the wolves on this list to kill him, so let's kill him."

*considers chucking lorebooks again, abstains this time*

[Nogrod]

Celuien! I know how you feel! Losing someone dear to you is just so agonizing! Believe me, Me and Di (and our children) have felt it already. And I duly agree with you, that we should see about what he said yesterday. Anyhow: those are the most open clues we have so far to this catastrophy.

And this looks so grim, that I'm not sure I can trust anyone anymore. I'd hope to stick with my family (which I kind of do anyways - at least now in the early hours of the day), and by this loss on your family, I'd like to believe in your family as well. But we should be open to even the most grimacing events here, and be aware of everyone... even our own family members.

Then I see my wife has been kind of vocal here in the morning. And I must agree with her in many respects. *also trying to duck a battledore*

I'm sad that Loki had to go. I for myself tried to get him lynched yesterday, as I was myself being bandwaggoned and he was the second one in the line. And even as I know now his innocence, I stand by my vote and the reasons for it. They were believable, but wrong. This happens, sadly.

Concerning the EW. S/he would do well to enlist people who are not the primary targets / most vocal ones (as they are in most cases the first to be lynched). In this I accord with both Spm and my wife. But I would like to insist in the fact, that after one of the "reputation"-people would have gotten to be relied on, s/he would really want to pick that one as a wolf. We must remember, that the dynamics of this game are different from a basic WW-game. Not only are there ever more wolves day after day, but they also are hand-picked (not random). And the wizards are also hand-picked, and will not be either the obvious ones or just random (because one has had to apply for the job). I agree with my wife with the fact that we should not just overlook any students with their exams in here. All the people seem to have time to write here...

But we have a second downside here too. As the wolves (probably) don't know each other, we can't track their mutual posting! That struck me today. We are totally at loss with any wolf-scheming, if they do not know each other. In many games I've been in, we have had lots of material to speculate over, as we have thought about them as werecreatures making comments while knowing each other - and knowing the innocents. That has lead to a many a wolf's death, but now we probably don't have that chance (or then the EW is a stupid person).

So. No steady roles (one might be converted in the middle of the game), no wolf-talk in the game (as they can't do it)... That's looking bad, as I said this earlier in the discussion thread (agreeing with Loki here). We are really in trouble.

But heads up. We will fight. I'm going to sleep now, but will be back with you later on the day.

[Glirdan]

1. Nilp --> Nogrod (Nogrod 1)
2. Lhuna --> Eomer (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1)
3. Gurthang --> Lommy (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1)
4. Diamond --> Loki (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 1)
5. Eonwe --> Nilp (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 1, Nilp 1)
6. Cailín --> Oddwen (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 1, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1)
7. Caran --> Loki (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1)
8. Jenny --> SPM (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1)
9. Morm --> Kath (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1, Kath 1)
10. Naria --> Nogrod (Nogrod 2, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1, Kath 1)
11. Eomer --> Nogrod (Nogrod 3, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1, Kath 1)
12. Lommy --> Nogrod (Nogrod 4, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1, Kath 1)
13. Alcarillo --> SPM (Nogrod 4, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)
14. Kath --> Lommy (Nogrod 4, Eomer 1, Lommy 2, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)
15. Fea --> Loki (Nogrod 4, Eomer 1, Lommy 2, Loki 3, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)
16. Loki --> Nogrod (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 2, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)
17. Nogrod --> Loki (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 2, Loki 4, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)
18. Glirdan --> Oddwen (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 2, Loki 4, Nilp 1, Oddwen 2, SPM 2, Kath 1)
19. Lalaith --> Loki (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 2, Loki 5, Nilp 1, Oddwen 2, SPM 2, Kath 1)
20. Celuien --> Lommy (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 3, Loki 4, Nilp 1, Oddwen 2, SPM 2, Kath 1)
21. Firefoot --> Lommy (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 4, Loki 4, Nilp 1, Oddwen 2, SPM 2, Kath 1)
22. SPM --> Alcarillo (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 4, Loki 4, Nilp 1, Oddwen 2, SPM 2, Kath 1, Alcarillo 1)
23. Valier --> Loki (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 4, Loki 6, Nilp 1, Oddwen 2, SPM 2, Kath 1, Alcarillo 1)
24. Kitanna --> Loki (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 4, Loki 7, Nilp 1, Oddwen 2, SPM 2, Kath 1, Alcarillo 1)
25. Azaelia --> Loki (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 4, Loki 8, Nilp 1, Oddwen 2, SPM 2, Kath 1, Alcarillo 1)
26. Spawn --> Lhuna (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 4, Loki 8, Nilp 1, Oddwen 2, SPM 2, Kath 1, Alcarillo 1, Lhuna 1)
27. Roa --> Nogrod (Nogrod 6, Eomer 1, Lommy 4, Loki 8, Nilp 1, Oddwen 2, SPM 2, Kath 1, Alcarillo 1, Lhuna 1)
28. tp ---> Roa ( Nogrod 6, Eomer 1, Lommy 4, Loki 8, Nilp 1, Oddwen 2, SPM 2, Kath 1, Alcarillor 1, Lhuna 1)

Those who voted SpM are - Jenny and Alcarillo.

Now, if we look at the list that Celuien has so kindly put up, her husband's list of possible EW choices on a Day was:

Cailín, Lalaith, Caranlondien, Celuien, Valier, Kitanna, Azaelia or Naria, Oddwen, Alcarillo, Roa, Firefoot, Diamond and Gurthang.(SpM)

Then, he split them up into three groups which was:

1 of Cailín, Lalaith, Caranlondien or Celuien
1 of Valier, Kitanna, Azaelia or Naria, Oddwen, or Alcarillo
1 of Roa, Firefoot, Diamond or Gurthang

Now, this looks, as Celuien said, bad for Alcarillo. However, I don't see it like that. The way I think of it, I find that this actually speaks in Alcarillo's favor. Why, if he voted for him the Day before, would he want to attack him at Night if he knew that it would put suspicion on him. And if he was one of the two Wolves, why would he sacrifice himself if there was only the two? Now, Alcarillo is a kiniving player but I don't see why he would be as bold as this.

Then there's Jenny who wasn't on that list of possible EW picks. Is it possible that she is one of the Wolves? The way I see it is that if she is a Wolf, after seeing that list, she thought "Hey! He doesn't think I have potential to be a possible EW candidate!" This could lead to one of two things: a) She was vindictive and decided to go after him out of pure spite. b) She took this opportunity to attack because it wouldn't leave any trails, especially if she used the excuse I gave above for Alcarillo:"I voted for him. Why would I attack him knowing that I would be looked at the next Day?"

Now, I'm not saying that either is a Wolf, but I'm not saying that they're out of my suspicions list. If anything, they have moved way up on my list. Now, you can look at that anyway you want. I'm going to go for a quick walk to clear my head. If you need me, call.

[Celuien]

Now, as to your conclusion. This is possible -- but consider that not only Alcarillo has reason to be wary of killing SpM. Everyone he mentions has reason. My lorebook (a bit singed but otherwise none the worse for wear) notes that often people are killed to divert suspicion onto those they were erroneously pointing fingers at. In fact, an ancestor of mine was killed for a somewhat simliar reason, prior to her death she pointed fingers at three people in particular, none of whom turned out guilty.

Of coures, due to this we now have the opportunity for double bluffing. I.E. "People will think it would be too bold for the wolves on this list to kill him, so let's kill him."
Point taken. My werewolf lorebooks speak of an ancestor of mine, however, who once discounted a villager's guilt for the reason that the nighttime kill would have brought too much suspicion upon that villager. She was wrong. The villager did turn out to be lupine. Bluff and double bluff can be very effective.

I haven't looked over my late husband's suspects yet. Honestly, there were so many that the thought of analysing all of them is painful. But my intuition says that you, Cailin and Gurthang are innocent. The others I'm unsure of. I fear I'm going to have to trudge off and take a closer look at everyone.

Now I don't mean to sound accusatory, but is it possible that this father in-law could possilby have taken the life of his son in-law? I mean, he never liked SpM, so how do we know that he didn't go after SpM out of pure spite?

I don't know, Glirdy. While my father often said he'd like to kill my poor husband, I don't think there's much evidence for his being a wolf. Of course, there isn't much evidence of anything from yesterday. How like a politician. :p ;) But I'd rather that we didn't start throwing random accusations at him for his personal dislike of my marriage. I'd prefer not to lose any more of my family for the present. :(

EDIT: Crossed with Nogrod and Glirdan

[Glirdan]

I don't know, Glirdy. While my father often said he'd like to kill my poor husband, I don't think there's much evidence for his being a wolf. Of course, there isn't much evidence of anything from yesterday. How like a politician. But I'd rather that we didn't start throwing random accusations at him for his personal dislike of my marriage. I'd prefer not to lose any more of my family for the present.

Like I said, I didn't want to sound accusatory but we must look at all possible options.

Btw, crossposted in my other post with those above me

[Alcarillo]

It looks like I have some defending to do.

If I were a wolf (which I'm not), and I killed the Saucepan Man, what good would that do me? If people said "Oh, it's too risky, Alc would never do it" and my fiendish plot succeeded, there'd be no guaranteeing I'd be thought of as innocent for long when anybody can be turned into a wolf any night. And then there'd be the risk of people saying "Alc's double bluffing. He's a wolf! ++Alc!". And then I'd be dead as a door-nail. I could either gain temporary innocence or die really quick. Why would I risk it when I can just lay low and survive far longer?

Whatever people would say, there'd certainly be plenty of discussion about me. Why on earth would I want this attention?! You people know my ancestors' methods of survival: laying low, keeping quiet. This doesn't fit with me killing Saucie. I'm not a werewolf, and if I were, I wouldn't be as dumb as killing Saucie.

And besides, Saucie always had a beer at hand whenever I returned to port, and he was most understanding of my son's courtship with Kitanna, having had a rocky time with in-laws himself. ;)

[mormegil]

Okay, first sorry about yesterday's inactivity. Hopefully it won't happen again.

Second, I cannot for the life of me understand why you killed of Loki. He screamed innocence to me and I do believe he was the double pick of the night. I do not know this for certain but his claims rang true in my ears. I actually didn't find him offensive or rude and think that many of you who went after him should feel slightly ashamed at yourselfs for ganging up on him. I haven't decided yet if I believe the EW is in the group of votes for him or not. Lalaith's 'cannon fodder' idea makes great sense and that is why I consider that to be a possibility.

Third, I plea to slow down!!! 200 posts! That's just ridiculous. There is no way a sane person can keep up with that. For the next day or two we should try and keep a small check on our post and not go overboard in size or quantity.

Fourth, the phantom is innocent! I can sense it in him and there are others that I believe are innocent such as Eomer, Fea, Firefoot, Spawn, Roa and others that I can't think of currently. That was yesterday and today could change that.

Fifth, GW please get your pick in quickly and everybody WAKE UP and check periodically to see if you are a new gifted. We cannot afford to loose dreams or protections.

Finally Celuien, Diamond and Glirdan are looking rather suspicious today though admittedly I am posting this after reading only a couple of today's posts. But all of their reactions seem markedly odd. Though I am sorry for my poor daughter and granddaughters for their loss. Even though I didn't always agree with the chap he treated my family well enough.

[Gurthang]

But we have a second downside here too. As the wolves (probably) don't know each other, we can't track their mutual posting! That struck me today. We are totally at loss with any wolf-scheming, if they do not know each other. In many games I've been in, we have had lots of material to speculate over, as we have thought about them as werecreatures making comments while knowing each other - and knowing the innocents. That has lead to a many a wolf's death, but now we probably don't have that chance (or then the EW is a stupid person).

I revert back to my first post. This is one of the main reasons we have to find a wizard, preferable of the Evil orientation.

But Nogrod is completely right. And more than that, I think that Saucepan's death tells us little. Well, it tells us that at least one wolf voted for him last Night, but it might have only been one. I'm thinking (meaning I don't know for sure), since there are only three wolves, that they all voted differently. And since that leaves only three possible kill choices, it is no surpise to me that Saucey would have been chosen out of three.

And, quite frankly, knowing for sure that one wolf voted initially for Saucepan* doesn't really help us. They could have had any reason for it. Although I would think that it was for his smartness. Which speaks ill ahead for those such as the phantom and morm and others.

I'm thinking that what we should look for is jumpiness concerning voting. Well, how about out of the ordinary jumpiness. I know a few who jump everytime they see their name in someone else's post. :rolleyes: ;)

I'm gonna go back and look at each person's reaction after each vote they received. Might take a little time.


*We're sure that one wolf voted for him, but we don't know if a second or third did. They could have. But we only know that one did for sure.

[Caranlondien]

Alas for poor SPM and his family! Not to mention how our village is now down a barkeep. Regarding the wolves' choice, on the one hand, he was garnering suspicion, which makes his death look odd. But given the fact he was innocent, I can't say I'm surprised. SPM would have been dangerous to the EW and the wolves were he ever to become a gifted.

As for lynching Loki yesterDay, what Diamond has already said about that goes for me also. On a personal level, I'm sorry for having lynched an innocent newbie. I think doing so is something to be avoided, in general. However, someone has to be lynched on Day 1! We never have much to go on, and thus I voted for the person I honestly found most suspicious given our very limited evidence. This time, those criteria happened to point to our unfortunate leech-collector. I apologize to Loki, but I stand by my vote. Day 1 is pretty darn random, and our chances were slim of not lynching an innocent.

I don't think we can expect to find many clues from what SPM said yesterDay. The werewolves couldn't have thought him a gifted, because we didn't have any yet. And even if they thought he was the GW, the only thing the GW knew yesterDay was the identity of one innocent who had for a very brief time been a wolf. I tend to think he was killed for his reputation as someone you don't want on the team opposite yours.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Now, phantom makes the situation sound pretty bright for us, but that's what the Evil Wizard would like to do; to make the Villagers believe that we don't have much to be scared of.
Hold up, I didn't say this unless I did it under the influence of pain killers which I've not been on since Friday afternoon.

However your points about tp being EWish are ones that I agree with. I don't quite see him in the role. I'll kick myself if I'm wrong, but I don't.

I’m not sure this is the best way to go about figuring out the Wizards.
It's not the best. Actually, when it comes to actively finding wizards, it's a pretty bad way. However it is something that we can keep in mind, and something is better than nothing.

But since I was making the connection, I really wanted to figure out who that friend might be, and I decided on either Roa or Gurthang, the only two who seemed to feel the need to defend Loki’s behavior before and after the event of Elempi’s murder.
I've been wondering about Roa as "the friend" for a while now too. I have no final thoughts on her wizardliness, however, and while I lean a little toward Loki as that double-choice, it's not because of her, it's because that's the choice I'd have made. He was a controversial newbie. People would have taken him for granted. Theoretically. If he didn't screw it up. But the point is moot since he's dead and we don't know what he was.

I would like to insist in the fact, that after one of the "reputation"-people would have gotten to be relied on, s/he would really want to pick that one as a wolf. We must remember, that the dynamics of this game are different from a basic WW-game. Not only are there ever more wolves day after day, but they also are hand-picked (not random). And the wizards are also hand-picked, and will not be either the obvious ones or just random (because one has had to apply for the job).
Very true. This is why (yes... I keep bringing this up) I think we should worry more about the EW than his minions. If we find him out, we can guess his mind (yeah, masculine pronoun for convenience value). That is NOT saying that we should ignore people that are acting wolvish, I just think that our top priority should be EW.

Why on earth would I want this attention?! You people know my ancestors' methods of survival: laying low, keeping quiet. This doesn't fit with me killing Saucie. I'm not a werewolf, and if I were, I wouldn't be as dumb as killing Saucie.
That's a silly paragraph, right there. Sure, lorebooks may say that those in your bloodline once laid low, but that means nothing about you here and now. Situations change. This isn't just picking on Alca, this is just a note to and for everyone: it doesn't matter how people acted because sometimes folk act differently.

Fourth, the phantom is innocent! I can sense it in him and there are others that I believe are innocent such as Eomer, Fea, Firefoot, Spawn, Roa and others that I can't think of currently. That was yesterday and today could change that.
You think I was innocent yesterday? Lorebooks claim your ancestors have never found mine innocent. It's just never happened! I'm so happy I could cry. Maybe I should marry you. :p

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I agree with what Caranlondien had to say about voting for Loki. I feel especially bad about voting for him, as mine was the decisive one...and so figuratively pulled the stool from under him (or would have, had not the dashing Phantom done so for me :p *ducks a battledore* ).

All that said, I think it is possible that Saucey was killed simply because he has, according to my lorebook, a fairly good track record as being an astute, experienced village member. In other words, he's smart and experienced, which alone could be a major factor in why he was killed. Too dangerous to keep around. If this is a frame-up, it's a fairly subtle one...though I think that we didn't give the wolves and EW too much to go on yesterDay--day ones, I suspect, are hard all around. So he could have been a "oh, hey, who do we kill tonight..." "Oh! I know! Let's get Sauce!"

Edit: Cross-posted with Fea
And also to say that I probably won't be back on until an hour or less before voting time. It's unfortunate, but it's the way it's going to be until Thursday at the latest (assuming, of course, that I survive that long). So many apologies in advance, and I request that you all bear with me.

[Firefoot]

Saucepan will certainly be missed. And Loki... even if I really didn't like his attitude, I didn't think he was guilty. But what's done is done.

Mostly I just want to say now that I'm extremely tired, and most of my posting will come in the last few hours of the day (I may check in with some comments in eight hours or so, though). I can only agree with Morm that trying to keep up with all this is completely nuts. It's all kind of blurry and no way am I going to be able to come up with anything comprehensible right now.

[the phantom]

There's a lot I could say about why SPM was chosen, but I'm going to wait a bit to give my opinion. I'm guessing there is a very simple explanation, but it's possible the pick was extremely careful and strategic, in which case I want to watch for people doing certain things today, because there are certain things someone does if they make a kill for a certain reason.

Of course, the very fact that I've said I'm watching for unnamed suspicious activities might result in the Wolves chickening out of whatever they had planned (if they did indeed have a sort of plan for the day, given to them by the EW perhaps).

But I'll say more later in the day about that.
Phantom=EW would lead to a resounding villager victory, I assure you.
I tend to agree with this, in the sense that tp is one of the ones more likely to be found out by the GW or Seer pretty quickly. Which is why I doubt that he would have been selected for this role.
I'm glad to see you believe that I'm not the EW.
because Roa is a Wizard, of course.
I have to say I was thinking this, too.
Of course you were. Great minds...you know the rest. ;)

Now, the only way to find out if we're right is to lynch Roa, but I don't feel like pushing for someone's death this early in the day. I haven't seen much from Roa, and I'd like to wait and hear what she has to say for herself.
and while I lean a little toward Loki as that double-choice, it's not because of her, it's because that's the choice I'd have made
Or because that's the choice you did make, of course. :p

I don't have time to say more now. I promised Zali I'd take a walk with her down by the creek today. We should be back soon though.

Or maybe not. ;)

*ducks battledore*

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Or because that's the choice you did make, of course. :p
Sure is. :p

PS: not really

[Gurthang]

Okay, Summary of Reactions After Receiving Votes (SRARV):

(format: Receiver - vote number for receiver {&} (vote giver) - post number of first post after vote (with cross-posting considered) - reaction in a word - reaction)

Nogrod - 1st (Nilp) - post #118 - Ignorant - Asks question about time of Day End.
Eomer - 1st (Lhuna) - post #77 - Displeased - Says that some of the early votes seem innappropriate, although does not mention his directly.
Thinlómien - 1st (Gurthang) - post #75 - Ignorant - Thin does not mention or acknowledge being voted for.
Loki - 1st (Diamond) & 2nd (Caran) - (no need to say anything)
Nilp - 1st (Eonwe) - (none yesterday)
Oddwen - 1st (Cailín) & 2nd (Glirdan) - (none yesterday)
Saucepan - 1st (JennyHallu) - (no reason to put anything here)
Kath - 1st (morm) - post #154 - Agreeable(?!) - says vote is "fair enough :p " and tells morm to use more reasoning for toDay.
Nogrod - 2nd (Naria) & 3rd (Eomer) & 4th (Thin) - post #162 - Unhappy - Direct quote: "Great!" (But also see post #163 - questions Thin and Eomer's reasoning)
Saucepan - 2nd (Alcarillo) - (see above)
Thin - 2nd (Kath) & 3rd (Celuien) & 4th (Firefoot) - (none yesterday)
Loki - 3rd (Fea) & 4th (Nogrod) & 5th (Lalaith) & 6th (Valier) & 7th (Kitanna) & 8th (Azaelia)- (no need to say anything)
Nogrod - 5th (Loki) - post #173 - Sarcastic - "How convenient..."
Alcarillo - 1st (SPM) - (none yesterday)
Lhuna - 1st (spawn) - (none yesterday)
Nogrod - 6th (Roa) - post #202 - Ignorant - He didn't say anything, probably because he was safe for the day.
Roa - 1st (phantom) - (none yesterday)

Well, there it is, but why do I feel like I just wasted my time... :rolleyes:

About the only things I see from this are a couple of responses from Nogrod, but I don't have anything from my lorebooks to say about him.

But I want to ask Eomer something: Why did you think the earliest votes were inappropriate?


Other than that, I think that maybe we should look at what Loki thought. I know other people also are suspicious of Nogrod and Roa, maybe not Diamond so much, but I don't think it'd hurt. Although I might be pressed just to keep up; lots of Stable Handing to attend to.

[Diamond18]

Hold up, I didn't say this unless I did it under the influence of pain killers which I've not been on since Friday afternoon.

Sorry, I got my labels mixed up. Was doing a lot of toggling between screens when I wrote that up, and pasting quotes into Word one after another. Just asking for mistakes. The quote belonged to Spawn, post 58 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=467378&postcount=58)

I did think it was odd coming from you, what with the other things you'd said about the Wizards.

[Diamond18]

Second, I cannot for the life of me understand why you killed of Loki.

I cannot speak for everyone, but it seems to me most of them explained their votes pretty clearly anyway. As for myself, I have already explained my logic ad nauseum. Which must mean that my logic is a foreign language to you. Which is fair enough, I suppose. But, as you may be able to tell from my location line, I like to try understanding other people's logic even if it does not match my own and isn't something I really approve of.


I actually didn't find him offensive or rude and think that many of you who went after him should feel slightly ashamed at yourselfs for ganging up on him.

Well I don't. And I never will. :) I could go on to explain just why I did find him offensive and rude, complete with quotes and such, but this would be pointless because he's dead and he can't defend himself without breaking WW rules. The important thing is that I meant what I said when I said how I felt. You may not agree with me, but asking me to be ashamed of my opinions and conclusions because they didn't mesh with yours is a bit presumptuous.


Third, I plea to slow down!!! 200 posts! That's just ridiculous. There is no way a sane person can keep up with that. For the next day or two we should try and keep a small check on our post and not go overboard in size or quantity.

Well I both agree and don't agree with that. For instance, right now things are rather quiet and I wish they were a bit brisker, because this is when I have time and leisure -- a nice Sunday evening when I don't have any committments or restraints and I can devote my time and thoughts to posting. Yet, I know that while I am sleeping and then away at the "battledore shop" and other various tasks tomorrow is when people are going to start nattering away in earnest and I won't have any chance of catching up before Day-end, forcing me to vote early which I dislike doing.

However, this is my problem and I'm not going to ask people to cramp their style to please me. I'll deal. I hope you'll deal too. :) There are still close to 30 people around, you ought to have known from the start that this would be a very, very loud village.


Fourth, the phantom is innocent!

Well, finally we agree on something. :) He seems pretty clean. For now.


Fifth, GW please get your pick in quickly and everybody WAKE UP and check periodically to see if you are a new gifted. We cannot afford to loose dreams or protections.

I'm not sure I get this comment. Do you have some sort of knowledge of gifteds shirking their duty? Or would you just like us to think that? Hmmmmmmm?


there are others that I believe are innocent such as Eomer, Fea, Firefoot, Spawn, Roa and others that I can't think of currently. That was yesterday and today could change that.

Finally Celuien, Diamond and Glirdan are looking rather suspicious today though admittedly I am posting this after reading only a couple of today's posts. But all of their reactions seem markedly odd.

Sorry, I had to shuffle your comments for easier reply. Anway, I have thought that you (er, your ancestors) generally have good instincts for werecreatures, so I'll keep this in mind, but I'm not sure that in this case I can agree about your feelings on Spawn, Roa, Celuien, and Glirdan. I know it's pointless to say what I think about my categorization, as it pertains to me, but what it tells me about the other players isn't pointless, if you take my meaning. That is, I'm an innocent and I'm suspect, so I can't really trust your view of the others as much as I might otherwise.

[the phantom]

Fifth, GW please get your pick in quickly and everybody WAKE UP and check periodically to see if you are a new gifted. We cannot afford to loose dreams or protections.
I'm not sure I get this comment. Do you have some sort of knowledge of gifteds shirking their duty? Or would you just like us to think that? Hmmmmmmm?
To answer your question, Diamond, in the narrative it says that the Seer didn't dream last night because of timing issues. Here's what it says-
The good wizard gave serious thought to whom to scry. It took a few hours to come to a conclusion. The scry was made. The villager scried was ordinary. The good wizard gifted the villager to be the seer. The only problem was that by the time this occurred, it was mere minutes before dawn. The seer didn't dream.
Can you say "oops"?

[Diamond18]

I think one more post should cover things, unless I've forgotten anything.


Great minds...you know the rest.

Buttering me up, eh? You know how to court a girl's mother, dontcha? :p Puts me in mind of an old folk song of the Reindeer Folk, I Want to Be the Boy to Warm Your Mother's Heart. (http://www.lyricsdir.com/the-white-stripes-i-want-to-be-the-boy-to-warm-your-mothers-heart-lyrics.html)


Now, the only way to find out if we're right is to lynch Roa, but I don't feel like pushing for someone's death this early in the day. I haven't seen much from Roa, and I'd like to wait and hear what she has to say for herself.

I hope she shows up earlier tomorrow than yesterDay, because I'll be voting early again. I too want to hear from her. Roa, Roa, wherefore art thou Roa? (And I know that's incorrect usage of "wherefore" but whatever.)


I don't have time to say more now. I promised Zali I'd take a walk with her down by the creek today. We should be back soon though.

Or maybe not.

*ducks battledore*


AHEM. :mad:

Just remember, while you're doing all this courting, it's highly unseemly considering the girl's grandfather just died and we're supposed to be in mourning.

And you can save your honeyed words about comforting because I know what that means.


I've been wondering about Roa as "the friend" for a while now too. I have no final thoughts on her wizardliness, however, and while I lean a little toward Loki as that double-choice, it's not because of her, it's because that's the choice I'd have made.

Well, I do take into consideration that even there is the slightest bit of veracity in my theory, it still only applies to one Wizard. Either both were thinking logically or one was, either way there was some logic involved. It's only possible that friendship entered into the equation. And my main reason for believing this was because of the secrecy. For all I know Loki made the "secret friend" up in a diabolical scheme to watch us try and figure it out. (Note: I really, really don't think this is the case. But the internet is so strange a place I can imagine tons of these weird scenarios. What this says about the way my diabolical mind works, is up to you. ;))

(Totally useless comment, but I feel compelled to express my frustration with the 3 smiley limit. I'm always coming up against it in these longer posts. Especially when I quote people. Argh!)

[Diamond18]

Can you say "oops"?

That must have been part of the edit, because I didn't see it when I read it. I thought he'd just edited in the Tally at the bottom and the italics. Well that explains it.

Good to know Morm hasn't suddenly become frighteningly clumsy, at any rate. :p

Edit: I suppose, also, that it could have been there from the start and I just didn't read close enough, and when I posed my question early on LMP was too polite to say, "Foolish wench, read more carefully before ye cast doubts upon my speeches, or I'll be forced to whip thee with thine own battledore! Fie!"

[Thinlómien]

Hullo all!

I think lynching SPM was an act of pure cowardice. The wolves/wolf decided that they didn't want him their enemy.

The more I think about the wizard-lynching plan, the more it makes sense.

I made a plan, which describes how we should treat people in my opinion. (See the attachment.)

The idea is that primary enemies (word "suspect") used in the chart should be voted first, if there are none, then secondary and then tertiary.

From now on I will be using feminine pronouns when speaking about an unknown person, fg. the EW.

Now I'm off to check if someone's left her candy unguarded... :p

edit: xed with phantom and D18

[mormegil]

I'm not sure if it's because she's one of the few talking currently or not but I am really starting to wonder about Diamond. She seems to want to respond to everything and yet there really isn't a lot of substance in each post, rather she has a lot of banter going on. Granted I generally enjoy reading her banter but all the same it is possible, yea probable, that it is a ploy or a decoy rather.

One thing important to remember that family is a good thing but don't fool yourself for one second that a wolf wouldn't turn on his/her family.

I guess I'm having a difficult time seeing why we are giving so much attention to the EW spotting. I really think that we are just over thinking things and telling the EW whom to or whom not to pick and thus negating any good we are doing by it. Perhaps if we find a wolf we can then speculate a bit but I think we are working in reverse here. Let's leave the seer and GW to find the EW, or the EW will make a slip at which point it will be easy to spot him/her but until then I suggest we focus on wolves and try and keep the population at a reasonable rate. I would hate to see it climb above 3 as we will be loosing 2 villagers a night and much higer than that 3 villagers a night.

[Cailín]

Ai no… Dear Saucy, dead. My condolences, Celuien and daughters, this is most grievous news indeed.

This does mean that I do not have to waste any breath defending the Saucepan Man, as I had planned. The kill, however, tells us little enough: it was not the result of careful planning and discussions -for our wolves cannot do this- and probably entirely a matter of chance. Saucy was a smart man. I can only conclude that at least one of the wolves is a traditional: they wished him out of the way despite the fact that he came under suspicion.

My mind jumps to Kath, for no particular reason.

As for the lynching today… it is going to be difficult. We have so little to go on: no voting patterns, no hidden alliances… one who was innocent yesterDay has now joined the army of the EW. Probably someone who 1) was not suspected much, 2) did not appear on both Eomer's and SpM's list, 3) was not likely to be scried by the GW. That still leaves numerous options.

I guess I'm having a difficult time seeing why we are giving so much attention to the EW spotting. I really think that we are just over thinking things and telling the EW whom to or whom not to pick and thus negating any good we are doing by it.

I do agree - a little. However, it will be hard to spot the wolves all working individually: kinda like spotting the Werebear. The depressing thing is that it is right now almost everyone for himself, excepting the Good Wizard and his Gifted. I'd be happy if we would just manage to find any trace of any evil activity, wolf or wizard.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Sorry Morm, but this village is monstrous in size. We're probably going to reach about 40 pages before the end so chin up, sir! :p

O Saucepan Man, I mourn your death. Whatever will become of your beautiful family; and what of the essential public house! Truly, this is cause for sadness.

Now, onto business. My initial thoughts on the kill are in line with my dear mother Cailín, but I am interested (as always) to hear what theory my brother The Phantom has up his sleeve. I can't see how this kill is a masterpiece of wolvish strategy. In fact, I think this was a strange kill from the wolves' point of view. Saucepan Man was always unlikely to be given a gift, and he was always likely to be a lynching-candidate and a Seer dream. Yes, he adds so much intelligence to the discussion; but I wonder whether this was a snap-decision from the wolves, made without too much thought. Maybe I'm not seeing this aright, but were I a wolf I would certainly not have murdered Saucepan Man.

Strange.

While I thought that Loki was innocent, I don't think his innocence should give the village carte blanche to slay the Loki bandwagon. Strategy today requires careful deliberation, and we shouldn't just assume that the wolves had something to do with the death of the first innocent.

Diamond, you weren't on my list of wolves because I can see you getting lynched very early. Sorry, but that's the truth.

Gurthang, I did indeed think some of the early votes were inappropriate. The vote for Lommy, somewhat, because I think she's always prime lynching material and wouldn't be picked to be a wolf. But (and you're absolutely right!) especially Lhuna's vote for me. My survival chances are among the lowest of anyone in this village: there is no way the EW is picking me to be a wolf.

Maybe Lhuna senses evil lurking somewhere within me ( ;) ) but she's mistaken. I have never attempted to learn sorcery and I never will. Not my cup of tea.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I agree with Alcarillo, and not just because he's never done anything wrong in his life before (I mean, just look at his wife and offspring — what a champion!)

He would not have wanted to kill SPM to get this unwanted attention. It would have been so much easier for him to lie low for many days yet. That's why Jenny is likely not a wolf either. Of course, either one could be the third wolf who was outvoted, but I'm pretty much dealing with chances and statistical probability here.

Now:

SPM's list of EW's wolf picks overlaps with mine quite a bit. He has: Cailín, Lalaith, Caranlondien, Celuien, Valier, Kitanna, Azaelia, Naria, Oddwen, Alcarillo, Roa, Firefoot, Diamond and Gurthang.

SPM made sure to let Oddwen off the hook because of her no-vote and how it would be conspicuous for a wolf to do that. Now he's dead. Significant?

Anyway, I let the following off the hook: Firefoot (because she's a likely Seer dream), Diamond (who will get herself lynched by being loud and troublesome :p ), Valier, Naria and Azaelia (the quiet, shady, lynchable types) Alcarillo (as stated above), and Cailín (simply because I would not see her lynched and I would die for her).

The more I think about it the more I realise that sweet Kitanna would be a brilliant pick from the EW. :(

But I'm not choosing her. And I'm not choosing Celuien either, poor woman, she'd never murder her husband — surely. So, if SPM was onto something (and let's be honest: if he was way off then the wolves would not have picked him) and that's why he lies dead, I would pick a lynching candidate from the following:

Oddwen, Lalaith, Caranlondien, Roa or Gurthang. Two wolves in that lot!

[Cailín]

I have been thinking some more on possible wolves…

Both other lynching candidates yesterDay seem unlikely choices for the EW. Lommy's flip-flopping style is well known, which always makes her a suspicious character early on in the game and while Nogrod's intelligence is acknowledged by us all, his controversial tactics tend to get him in trouble. If I were the Evil Wizard, I would choose neither (sorry). And of course, after yesterDay's events, I would not choose any of those gathering many votes.

So who could be the wolves then?

I doubt that either Lhuna or Nilp are wizards - because of timezones and just general lack of time. However, in a large village such as this one, Lhunardawen would be a defendable original wolf choice. I'd stay away from Nilp, who is really too insane to be trusted, even after seeming sensible yesterDay.

Other original choices, and this list is similar to Saucy's, might include Firefoot, Lalaith, Gurthang, Caranlondien, Celuien, possibly Roa, Diamond or Kath. The first five are people who usually manage to stay alive for a pretty long time and often have a key part in victory either way. Diamond and Kath are less 'safe' options, but both can be dangerous wolves.

Also, though both Eomer and Phantom will disagree with me, I do think it is possible the EW might have turned one of those with a bad reputation, just for tradition's sake. I don't suppose it is the phantom - at least not from the start - but Eomer, Spawn or Feanor I would not so easily disregard. However, I consider those mentioned above to be the wiser and more obvious choices.

After yesterDay, I should think the EW would have chosen someone inconspicuous last Night. Numbers, not the composition of the team, are probably most important to him at the moment. Someone like Kitanna perhaps? Or one of those who firmly established their innocence yesterDay? At least not someone from Eomer's list of possibilities, especially if we may assume that those are indeed the people the EW first considered.

Much depends, however, on who the Evil Wizard is. We all approach the game in a different matter. While some people may use cold, hard logic in their choices of minions, others may be driven by feelings of friendship and family.

And as for who the wizards might be, I have made a list of possibilities but that I shall keep to myself for a while. It is not really helpful and I think we will all more or less come to the same conclusions in that respect anyway. That does not mean I am not still looking for the source of all these monsters.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Belated Happy Mother's Day to all mums here, real and in-game. :)

Okay, now let's get down to business.

Nobody bothers to take cross-votes into consideration, except probably me. Here are the ones I saw:

(Times are in GMT +8)

3.54: Morm --> Kath (Nogrod 1, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1, Kath 1)
3.56: Naria --> Nogrod (Nogrod 2, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1, Kath 1)

4.00: Eomer --> Nogrod (Nogrod 3, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1, Kath 1)
4.01: Lommy --> Nogrod (Nogrod 4, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 1, Kath 1)
4.03: Alcarillo --> SPM (Nogrod 4, Eomer 1, Lommy 1, Loki 2, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)

4.32: Fea --> Loki (Nogrod 4, Eomer 1, Lommy 2, Loki 3, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)
4.33: Loki --> Nogrod (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 2, Loki 3, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)

4.58: Lalaith --> Loki (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 2, Loki 5, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)
4.59: Celuien --> Lommy (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 3, Loki 5, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1)

5.33: Valier --> Loki (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 4, Loki 6, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1, Alcarillo 1)
5.35: Kitanna --> Loki (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 4, Loki 7, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1, Alcarillo 1)
5.35: Azaelia --> Loki (Nogrod 5, Eomer 1, Lommy 4, Loki 8, Nilp 1, Oddwen 1, SPM 2, Kath 1, Alcarillo 1)

The underlines are about ties made and broken.

Now cross-votes are interesting because the cross-voters haven't had a chance to factor their fellow cross-voter's vote into the tally by the time they voted. Therefore, so far as we are concerned, Valier, Kitanna, or Zali gave Loki's 6th vote.

Interesting, eh? But probably useless for now.

I voted for Nogrod yesterDAY because:

a) he was on my possible Wizard's list, and I wanted to see some reaction, or lack of it, from him;
b) he had already posted much by the time I had to vote.
c) Now, the phantom was also on my possible Wizard's list, and he had posted much then, too, so I went with Nogrod because he's already up against someone: Loki. They ended up being the two to compete for the dubious honour of DAY 1 lynchee. Wow.

I got what I needed out of the strife. And I found Valier's vote most interesting . . .

++Valier

That's it. See you tomorrow, then. :)

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Okay, why Sauce?

There was no Seer on Day 1, so the Wolves didn't work on the basis to try to catch a Gifted. I also doubt that they tought Sauce to be the GW. If Sauce suspected someone correctly, it's not because he would have had more information than the rest of us, but because of his own logics. The Wolves knew that, and Sauce's death seems to tell less than deaths in normal Wolf-possessed Villages.

The kill, however, tells us little enough: it was not the result of careful planning and discussions -for our wolves cannot do this- That's true. If the Wolves didn't unanimously pick Sauce, the one who picked someone else is probably looking for reasons for his/her comrades' choice trying to identify them. If we can identify them first, it'd be great because if we don't lynch a Wolf toDay, there will be 2 kills a Night from now on. As has been said toDay, we should probably give some thought on who the Wolves could be, too, and not just the EW.

Killing Sauce could have been a more or less random choice. It's great to have him on your side, but he can be a scary opponent. Maybe the Wolves wanted to take care of a possible threat in the future. That doesn't point at anyone in particular.

Even though Sauce wasn't a Seer, if he was right about something, he would have had the potential to make a good case against his supects with possibly bad consequences to the Evil team. In this case, we should look at those who were on his list of possible EW picks.

As I noted yesterDay, to me Sauce seemed surprisingly confident about how the EW would act.

Yet it is not village affairs that have guided the Evil Wizard’s hand, I am sure, but cold, hard logic.
There are more in his post #144 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=467500&postcount=114). He also gave a lot of names as possible EW's choices. Maybe the Wolves were on the list and got scared, or then Sauce was way off and killing him was supposed to throw us completely off track. That would incriminate the people whom I already mentioned or those whom he excused yesterDay. Uh, that's about everyone in this village...

So, I'll move on to giving thouhts on my fellow villagers as soon as I can.

[Celuien]

way[/I] off then the wolves would not have picked him...
Exactly! There are many, many villagers to be feared for their skills if innocent. Short list - you, tp, Fea, Caran, Morm, and many others. So I think that he must have been on to something that the foul beasts did not want him to pursue further to tip the balance to choosing him instead of, say (activates spinning ale bottle), the phantom. Remember - SPM did earn two votes yesterday, and if the wolves wanted him dead, they might have tried to build off the suspicion that earned him those votes yesterday and had us do their dirty work while they hid, laughed, and watched.

I don't discount that this death could have been a random pick from the prominent villagers, or that he might have been killed just because he was so greatly to be feared as an innocent. And I know that no secret discussions went on to strategize about his death. But, though I don't know how the mechanics of last night's voting worked, I do know that he managed to catch attention from one of the wolves or he wouldn't have died.

Much has happened since I went away. I've only skimmed it so far, and will have to take a closer look.

Incidentally, I will be keeping the Salty Seal open for business. I think that the SPM would have wanted it that way.

Back later...

[Lalaith]

One thing I wonder about from yesterday.
When the Good Wizard turned a wolf back to the path of righteousness, did the Evil One know which of his brood he had lost? He clearly does now, of course, but did he know at daybreak? If not, he would have had rather a worrying Day....

Morm, my dear old mayor, I'm glad you like my cannon fodder theory, but unless Loki was telling the truth and really was turned, then it doesn't apply in his case.

It is a great pity about the Seer not getting a dream in. I seem to remember some talk of the Nights being prolonged if business had not been concluded therein. I take it that no longer applies? I hope the wolves and EW will also be subjected to strict time constraints, that's all.

Another question I have, what rules does our great Seal-in-the-Sky intend to apply to non-voters and non-posters?
YesterDay's non voters were Sleepy (who has explained why elsewhere) and my wretched niece Oddwen. Where IS that child? Oh well, another day of sipping gin-and-its and sewing ruffles on my party dress, I'm sure she'll turn up when she's hungry.

The wolves - there were only two last night and presumably they either came, via their mod, to some arrangement, or the EW picked one of their two choices, or the EW may even have made a few suggestions to them regarding their kill, if such things are permissible.

The death of Saucie? A simple explanation, quite possibly: too high-profile to turn into a wolf, too dangerous to keep as an enemy.
But there is another explanation and I wonder if I am thinking along the same tracks as phantom. However too many hints will negate the benefits of keeping the theory quiet so I will say nothing until later.

On the subject of phantom, I see no-one suspects him at all. I don't either, actually, but I have looked in a few lorebooks and searched my ancestral memories and found that last time everyone trusted his ancestor, it led to village disaster. (One that profited my ancestress, an equally frivolous but also extremely wicked dancing girl...but let us not dwell on such painful matters.)

Mistress Battledore and the self-confessed creepy shepherdess Fea both think it seemly to hunt out the GW, as he is heading for martyrdom anyway. Now this is frivolity and nonsense beyond even my ken. Do you not think, ladies that we should at least wait until he gives us a few gifteds? Madame Diamond I am already watching, for showing more familiarity with the lyrics of the J Geils Band than any decent person should, something that would in itself be a lynching offence in less tolerant settlements.

[Cailín]

Well, the phantom of course, being my son and all, cannot possibly have anything to do with this evil. Aside from the fact that I personally raised him, I do believe he will (and needs to be) dreamed of and scried as soon as possible. Also, his behaviour yesterDay fits with his innocence. I love him dearly, oh yes, but not as much as he loves himself (who could?). If he was not chosen by either wizard, I am sure he needed to come up with a favourable explanation for that and that is exactly what he did.

Either way - he is all good for now. Even if he is in fact evil.

Another question I have, what rules does our great Seal-in-the-Sky intend to apply to non-voters and non-posters?

I was wondering, too. In a village as this one, no one is immediately going to notice those who post less than normal.

By the way, the Saucepan Man cannot have been way off. I think it is quite possible that he accused the entire village of potential lycanthropy and those he did not directly accuse, he certainly implied. I wonder about this supposed master strategy thing Lal and phantom brought up, though.

[Nogrod]

We surely talk here... (it took me almost an hour to just update myself with everything written after I left)

I'm going to go back and see a couple of things about yesterday too. But before that just a few thoughts about the wizards & the wolves.

The wizards are the clue of this game. Thence lmp must have been pretty thoughtful when picking them. He would not have chosen people who'd be raising suspicions. It would increase the possibility of either one being revealed and the game changing into a normal WW-game just too soon. He would really like to see, how the wizards actually play.

The EW's initial picks as wolves probably follow the same lines of thought as lmp's wizard choice. Three silent, under-radar types would serve the EW best in the beginning: giving them a working-peace to do her/his bidding in the chaotic rushing around the loudmouths of the first couple of days (just look at the voting stats: most votes for Loki, myself, Lommy and even Spm - not the silent ones...). That's why I'm still quite unsure about Loki being the double choice (his newbieness would be the only reason to pick him, I suppose).

But the third one from last night is a different choice. It would be intelligent from the EW to have taken now someone with a higher profile - as we probably should start to look for the more silent ones... But that one should also be one that hasn't roused suspicion - or at least not too much, or too serious.

And why Spm last night? I would go for them just eliminating a good player out from the game. If Spm was up to something real, it might have been too risky to go after him. But then again, if there was something, the wolves might have been afraid that there could be more the next day? Must see to that too.

[Thinlómien]

Many people have despised/disliked/not agreed with Fea's theory about who could be the EW. I agree that using off game reasoning is not maybe the best thing to do (in the viewpoint of the game), but I think that Fea's theory makes sense. Another thing we could use when trying to solve thew personality of the EW is the person in question's personality. I bet I could name at least a few players who lack the ambition and self-assurance to apply a wizarding position.

The wizards are the clue of this game. Thence lmp must have been pretty thoughtful when picking them. He would not have chosen people who'd be raising suspicions. It would increase the possibility of either one being revealed and the game changing into a normal WW-game just too soon. He would really like to see, how the wizards actually play. In a way, I disagree. I think he would enjoy picking surprising people as wizards. I agree that he must have picked good players, however.

The EW's initial picks as wolves probably follow the same lines of thought as lmp's wizard choice. Three silent, under-radar types would serve the EW best in the beginning: giving them a working-peace to do her/his bidding in the chaotic rushing around the loudmouths of the first couple of days (just look at the voting stats: most votes for Loki, myself, Lommy and even Spm - not the silent ones...). True. I agree with you. Though not too slip-under-the-radar-people. They really arouse suspicion. Nogrod, you're making a lot more sense today. I hope it is not because Naria, I and some others remarked you acted strangely yesterday and you've decided to be more careful today with hiding your fur or magical powers...

[Sleepy Ranger]

Here I am, finally! Sorry about missing Day 1 but I [unexpectedly] fell ill. :(
Anyway, a lot seems to have happened so I'm off to see the wiz... I mean read through the thread. See you around folks! Also Cara, take out the trash. Thinlo, brush your teeth. Roa, wheres my dinner?