T-I-G LVI: Panic at the Prancing Pony

[Lariren Shadow]

I've now decided to use the subject line when I need to respond to people multiple times.

What I meant about not going off of what Rune said was about not wanting Fea to die. As in that didn't influence my vote. The comment is at the bottom of page 11(I believe), Rune's I mean.

[Aganzir]

xnkfcc-lxnfä-Zxvkncx.kl

I made a case against Mira. I was just about to start commenting on the last quote I had from her when I accidentally managed to close my net browser.

The post was relatively long, although it wasn't the only thing I busied myself with during these two hours.

I am darn angry with myself.

It's 12 am, I need to wake up in seven hours and I'm definitely not going to remake it today.

However the conclusion I reached was that she was somewhat suspicious, but I don't know how much should be put on her newbieness. She bears watching.

I haven't read what's been posted for some time.

Off to do it now, then I just vote and go.

Argh.

[Thinlómien]

Why is nobody posting?

I'm doing nothing.

I'm telling myself that I'm thinking of who to vote, but I'm not. I have decided to vote sally but I'm waiting for some miraculous inspiration that would override my suspicion of her.

Or then I just don't want to go to sleep.

++sally

Done. I'll go to sleep soon. If the miraculous inspiration strikes, I will retract. ;)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right. I will most likely not go much further for toDay, even though of course I am not willing to let people pass by and sleep under my radar, but my vote and my main focus for toDay is clearly either Mac, or if there's nothing better, Fea. But it is late and I will stay around for a bit yet, but just be looking on what is going around and posting on the present issues, and not going through the posts of somebody all the way.

[Rikae]

Non-Dury voters:

Rikae:

Votes for Greenie. I explained it at the time... nothing else to say. She's the best suspect I had at the moment (as for the comment about being tired of Mac being a baddie, I was trying to explain why I might be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt more than others are – because I want him to be innocent).

Agan:

Votes for Mac with reasons that seem pretty rational (suspicious comments he made, not wanting to vote for me or Lommy, her other suspects, thinking there is some connection between us, Mac, and/or Nog... although I don't really understand how she thought Nog was connected). I don't see anything particularly suspicious here.

Greenie:

Votes Nog.
In addition to his weird Golly-vote, that Dury thing just doesn't make any sense. It looks something like a crafted case that has failed (deliberately or not) to take into account a very significant factor which is, as Rikae already pointed out, the fact that Dury's role was mysterious cloaked figure or something like that. Dunno, somehow Noggins' behavior makes me think he's a wolf who's trying just a bit too hard.

Makes sense (well, I'm not sure what she means with the Gollum-vote thing), but perhaps a tad easy. Would an evil Nog make such a huge error? I didn't think so at the time, which is why I tried to correct him, instead of trying to lynch him.

Menel:

Votes Mac, with kind of a strange explanation (saying Mac and I want to distract the village). It's more or less typical Menel-posting, though.

Lommy:

Votes Agan because of her style and personal reasons. Not the greatest reasoning; perhaps too bad to be bad, if you know what I mean (unless the whole Agan-fixation is an attempt to avoid attracting attention and antagonizing other players...).

Brinniel:

Votes Fea, after saying everyone is going to cross-post. Very innocent looking vote, but could be one of those of a wolf using a Fea-sacrifice to look good, for just that reason. Her posts, however, feel sincere.

Durelin:

Votes Mac. Known innocent, trying to save herself, nothing to comment on there.

Berry:

Makes a point of not joining the Durelin-lynching mob, votes Mac. Could indeed be a wraith trying to make himself look good, if someone is.

Did not vote: Sally, Leggy, Nerwen.

Conclusions:

The only ones who could be taking advantage of being on the right side of the Dury lynch are Berry and Brinn, and Brinn, especially, doesn't look like it. There are some slightly suspicious things in the other votes, but nothing extremely so. The non-voters, of course, are in position to really slip under the radar and shouldn't be allowed to do so (the only one of them who looks suspicious to me right now is Sally, though).

It does seem like an evil Fea would make the following people worth more scrutiny:

Lari
Mac
Beregond
Mira
Rune

But as I think we can be more sure about Fea than any of those, she remains our best lynch for toDay.
(To Legate: if it were anyone but Fea, I'd agree with you on ignoring her... but I don't trust the village to be able to ignore Fea, nor do I think we can be at all sure she's only a cobbler).

[Aganzir]

Sorry I am simply too irritated & tired (neither of which I was until I lost my post) to think about this any more.

++Fea

Because her death will probably reveal the most and because she's been behaving plain suspiciously.

It's possible I still pop in before deadline but I doubt it.

[Thinlómien]

*does not get any divine inspiration and goes to sleep*

[Kitanna]

Now that you're here, Kit, would you also like to clarify whether it will be noted in the narration that the ringbearer changed sides, or not?
If the ringbearer is changed it will be known.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

But as I think we can be more sure about Fea than any of those, she remains our best lynch for toDay.
(To Legate: if it were anyone but Fea, I'd agree with you on ignoring her... but I don't trust the village to be able to ignore Fea, nor do I think we can be at all sure she's only a cobbler).

Okay. I still say: consider Mac, though. Seriously.

However, I do not mind getting rid of Fea now, still better than another random ordo. At least we'll be done with her. I only hope we will be able to catch all the Wolves in the following Days one by one and get rid of them all. (Or even better, that Fea herself is a Wolf.)

I will hang around for a short while now, then probably vote and go to sleep. I will also post a list of people, probably, just my current impressions on everybody.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

If the ringbearer is changed it will be known.

Now that's some really, really good news.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

satansaloser2005 - hard to say much, but not particularly suspicious to me - this far. Could be posting more, though.
Feanor of the Peredhil - a horrible Cobbler
Lariren Shadow - suspicious, to be placed under observation
Mirandir - slipped under my radar, to be placed under observation
Thinlómien Mugwort - seems innocent, although at some points mightily confused (which is not impossible)
Legate of Amon Lanc - that's me
Rikae "Bertha" Broadbottle - innocentish
Aganzir - likewise
Beregond - not saying he is not suspicious at all, but does not ring the alarm bells that much; will be watched closely, though
Nerwen - nothing very suspicious this far. Somewhere in the yellow zone (i.e. between the green and orange. After the orange, there is red, which means a very apparent baddie. Just so that you know ;) )
Rune Son of Bjarne - seems genuine, and genuinely innocent
Macalaure "Barney" Broadbottle Jr. - seems wolfy
Meneltarmacil - I think he seems quite a lot innocent. I trust him more than I do most of the others.
A Little Green - is not posting very much and thus, partially slips under my radar, or rather, I have hard time forming a strongly supported opinion on her; nevertheless, she seems rather innocentish to me.
Brinniel - seems very genuine this far, and more or less innocent-ish. Again, some kind of yellow zone.

If Fea is a Wolf, that would be indeed a terno. As I am pretty certain Mac is one as well. But whatever. Anybody around and posting now?

[Macalaure]

Legate, I think you're losing your objectivity concerning me. Take a deep breath and then please give me another look, for the good of Bree. I won't comment on everything you said about me, because it's a lot. Maybe later or toMorrow. One thing:

I mean, he not even mentions the chance of Fea being a Cobbler

I said she looks evil, for me, that includes both wraith and cobbler. You deliberately overlooked where I later talked about her being Ferny.

I had no idea what was going on with regards to any possible bandwagon jumping that has been speculated about.

I didn't necessarily only mean the actual votes, but the suspicions themselves. Fea's points on Durelin were extremely weak, yet three individual persons picked them up during the last half an hour and let their votes be misled instead of sticking to what they've been thinking before.

Yes, we are friends in real life. Yes, I am a newbie. However, neither of those mean that I won't throw her under the bus if need be.
I didn't mean that and I'm really sorry if it seemed that way. My point is that it was so foolish to seriously suspect Durelin to the point of voting at that point, that I can't believe that you, Fea, Lari, and Rune all did it out of honest intentions.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I said she looks evil, for me, that includes both wraith and cobbler. You deliberately overlooked where I later talked about her being Ferny.

Hmmm, maybe I have overlooked it, but I don't recall it, really. Where did you say that?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I think Fea had reason to believe her vote stood a good chance of being followed, with three (I count Lari) newbies and a chivalrous Rune left to vote.

The only downside to this argument is one that you'll just have to take on faith: I had no idea whose votes were still outstanding.

At any rate, pretty much everyone but Fea had an excuse.

And what was their excuse, Rikae, "Fea started it?"

Good excuse...

First the Dury thing, and then toDay pretty much all the discussion has been revolving around her.

That is distinctly not my fault. I mean, the Dury thing was certainly encouraged by me, but I've barely been around today, so no blame of the actions of others should fall on me.

Once again: Fea is a Cobbler.

You say this with SUCH conviction. Just... y'all are so confident that you know my role, and you're wrong.

I'd just like to suggest that when you kill me and realize that I really am actually just an ordo who is far too dramatic to be content with ordinariness, that you take very close looks at those who lead the charge against me.

Some Mira and Lari could have been voting to "save Fea" because of RL friendship, however silly that is, I think.

About this- while I totally believe that both of them would be willing to manipulate others by citing our RL friendship, I do not believe that they would have any hesitation at all to kill me, same way I wouldn't hesitate to kill them if I thought it was a good idea to do so.

My point is that it was so foolish to seriously suspect Durelin to the point of voting at that point, that I can't believe that you, Fea, Lari, and Rune all did it out of honest intentions.

My intentions were honest.

I couldn't wrap my mind around the perversity of continuing to post in character at as critical of a moment as the time right before deadline.

I wanted to vote Rikae for the strange 'seer' actions of earlier, but didn't think I could get any support.

Therefore, Durelin as my last minute impulse vote. I figured, "Why not? The village will have less in character posting without her."

Today my suspicions lie most with those who are pushing hard for my lynching, namely Legate and Rikae.

I'm willing vote for for either, but leaning toward voting for Rikae, because she has a past (the seer thing) on my suspect list, versus Legate seems just to be following her lead.

Which may or may not be worse.

I'll be voting - unless something major changes very soon - for one of them tonight.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh, you mean this one. That was in another post than the one I quoted, though. But okay, okay, you said it - only later. But when I look at it...

Given how easily Fea gets herself lynched, there could be merit to the set-up idea. Killing Nogrod would give the wraiths an easy day. In any case: why would Fea want to kill Nogrod? She cannot be more than Ferny. Would the wraiths set up their cobbler like that, though?

To me, it seems once again just like downplaying it. What does it mean "would the wraiths set up their cobbler like that"? How would they be supposed to "set her up"? Cobbler and Wraiths do not talk to each other. But whatever.

I am going to make a last check if somebody didn't post, then vote and go.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

You say this with SUCH conviction. Just... y'all are so confident that you know my role, and you're wrong.
Oh but I am convinced. Okay, you may be also a Wraith, if what's been said about you being able to play like that is true.

I'd just like to suggest that when you kill me and realize that I really am actually just an ordo who is far too dramatic to be content with ordinariness, that you take very close looks at those who lead the charge against me.
Certainly. I can give you my word that for myself, I will be really interested in looking closer at those who suggested lynching you if you turn out to be an ordo. And maybe even without you turning out to be an ordo, it may be worth it just for checking. But whatever.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

How would they be supposed to "set her up"? Cobbler and Wraiths do not talk to each other. But whatever.

Last game I was a wolf. I knew who my cobbler was. He didn't try particularly hard to hide from me. When it was a toss up between me definitely dying and me maybe getting him killed instead, I tried to play it off like we were lovers, thereby at the very least incriminating him (that way whether or not I died, I'd give the actual wolves an extra day while the village dealt with the Boromir88 situation). So yeah. Cobblers and their Bad Guys never make educated guesses and act on them. :rolleyes:

In any case... as a matter of being set up, it's a case of the wraiths taking advantage of an easy scenario and killing off Nog (who first suggested lynching me) to make it look like a knee jerk (which is what my Dury vote looked like), making it look like I either killed Nog, or whatever.

Why wouldn't wraiths take advantage of an easy way to kill an ordo? Look, Fea is impulsive: let's pretend like this is news to us and kill her for it!

By the way, can I just mention that barely anybody suspected me (at least publicly) until Nog suggested a last minute lynch of me?

So all this "Fea is sooooo suspicious" happened today.

Think about it.

One impulsive move after a decent track record of actually paying attention when others do strange things (Rikae/seer; Dury/ranger), and everybody decides not to remember that I wasn't suspected until five minutes before deadline yesterday.

Brilliance.

[Beregond]

Instead of spending three hours to read all the day's activity (I read slow, alas!), or giving the last two pages a less-than-cursory glance before making some silly comments with no relevance, I shall just for now point out that I'm alive, have had a very busy tiring day, and will try to catch up...sometime. Sooner, I hope. With a small portion of wine, if necessary.

All I ask is that no one post anything until I've read the last two pages! :p

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All right, Fea, just one thing: even back then on Day 1, you acted like a Cobbler and there were people suspecting you. So do not try to play on us how sudden and unfortunate is this suspicion of you.

All right. I am going now.

Voting list toDay:

Rikae => Fea (Fea 1)
LG => Fea (Fea 2)
Lommy => sally (Fea 2, sally 1)
Agan => Fea (Fea 3, sally 1)

So one may as well add my vote to the list:

++Fea

As it seems the general meaning goes in her direction, now it'll probably be pretty easy for the Wolves to hide themselves in, but whatever, I guess it's worth it anyway. And please, do not attempt to vote somebody else again just for the sake of preventing a bandwaggon against her. We know how it ended yesterDay.

And one note about Mac. He is suspicious also by his... politeness, yea, that's the word. He is being so nice to everybody... not reacting on suspicions of himself unless it is really needed (if somebody asked him), or if he can use it to show how those who chase him are perhaps slightly wrong in their minds, poor them, but he knows they mean well, they are just mislead, poor ones, he will be so kind and point out their mistakes and hope them to reconsider. Oh Mac, there will be peace... when you hang from a gibbet at your window for the sport of your own crows.
So, okay, if we are lynching Fea today - let's see what can be done with him toMorrow.

Good night, village.

EDIT: x-ed with Beregond. Hello, Beregond. Hope you don't mind me posting. But you can surely bear one more post :) Good night to you all once again.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Fea:
First she echoes Noggie's bizarre reasoning. Now she's trying to pass her vote off as a revenge/joke vote, but she was obviously trying to give some people (read: newbies) the impression that Nog's theory had merit here (just after saying that it's useful to discuss the ranger's identity!):


This does not quite make sense. . .You make it sound like only newbies could be convinced of the theorys merit, yet the theory was presented by one of the most expirienced ww players of all!
So if this theory was one only newbies could think had merit why was it Nogrod an inocent that presented it.

That is the general fault in your crusade against Durelin voters, you make it seem like it was the worst idea ever to come up in ww. . .yet it was an innocent Nogrod who started it.

You really confuse me Rikae, earlier today I was sure you where innocent, but slowly I get doubts.

Anyways as things look now, I will probably vote Mac.

EDIT: Cross posted with Beregond and Legate (who made a silly vote)

[Beregond]

As I'm reading: can someone, please, explain what a cobbler is (besides a shoemaker)? I searched the forums: no luck (used too many times without explanation), and I've searched Google without luck as well. I should have asked earlier when I first heard the term, but then I assumed it was a synonym for Bill Ferney's role.

Hi, Legate! I'm almost glad you've gone to bed, your posts are so long (but good, of course). :p

[Rikae]

Rune: Well, to be blunt, I've seen Nogrod come up with some pretty far-fetched, paranoid conspiracy theories before. It's almost a trademark of his. I've been at the receiving end of them more than once (and yes, as an innocent).

Nogrod has a well-deserved reputation as a legendary player, but he does have this particular weakness.

Anyway, I don't base my assessment of a theory on the reputation of the player who comes up with it. :rolleyes:

Berry: A cobbler is a player who is an ordo in all respects, except that xe wants the baddies to win. Ferny is a cobbler with the added ability to send suggestions to the wraiths.

[Beregond]

Thank you, Rikae. :)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Rune: Well, to be blunt, I've seen Nogrod come up with some pretty far-fetched, paranoid conspiracy theories before. It's almost a trademark of his. I've been at the receiving end of them more than once (and yes, as an innocent).

Nogrod has a well-deserved reputation as a legendary player, but he does have this particular weakness.

Anyway, I don't base my assessment of a theory on the reputation of the player who comes up with it. :rolleyes:


Yes, experienced players can come up with far-fetched cospiracys (and often do), so why do you think that Fea's vote for Durelin was an attempt to get a following of newbies?

[Rikae]

Ok, it occurs to me I'm basing a lot of my reasoning on things that not everybody knows, so I'll try to list them all.

First of all, Durelin has played ranger characters before. If I recall correctly, she used to have a ranger avatar, too. She is also a good player who would not go on failing to contribute without RL reasons (and, as a baddie, is too good a player to attempt coasting by that way, either).

Jokes where people make one of the roles their occupation are pretty standard and have certainly been made by ordos before, many times.

Nogrod is a very experienced player and knows all the above perfectly well. However, he's been known to come up with illogical, far-fetched theories against innocents (while innocent) on many an occasion.

Fea is also a very experienced player who knows the above perfectly well. She is also not prone to misleading herself like Nog is. If Fea behaves illogically, there is a reason for it - either she is innocent and it's part of a plot for the village's benefit, or she's evil.

[Rikae]

Yes, experienced players can come up with far-fetched cospiracys (and often do), so why do you think that Fea's vote for Durelin was an attempt to get a following of newbies?

a) Three newbies had yet to vote.
b) Most experienced players would know better. Fea is absolutely one of those.

[Mirandir]

a) Three newbies had yet to vote.

Personally, I don't like voting before the last hour or so before deadline. At the moment, it's a little less than 5 hours away and I'd much rather wait a while and see what happens before making an ill-conceived vote. Although maybe I will vote now so I won't be accused of bandwagon jumping. :p

Lari requests that I point out that she agrees and is currently rolling on the floor giggling hysterically like a little girl during a break from watching Twilight. Apparently it's so terrible it's hilarious. :rolleyes:

[Rikae]

At the moment, it's a little less than 5 hours away and I'd much rather wait a while and see what happens before making an ill-conceived vote.
So you'd rather make an ill-conceived vote later? :D

Really, I don't have any problem with last-minute voting in general.
It's just part o my reason for thinking Fea's sudden agreement with Nogrod was calculated to win support before the last-minute voters could think the better of it (or be advised against it by more experienced players).

By the way, with retractable votes, you don't have to worry about it so much.

[Nerwen]

Okay. I have finished reading the thread.

I will probably vote for Fea. I wanted to see what she had to say for herself, but she doesn't look any better today. Unfortunately she seems more likely to be Ferny than a wraith. I put forward the idea that she was a wraith acting like a cobbler earlier, but her unwillingness (see #450) to suspect any of the other Durelin-voters makes her look like a cobbler who isn't sure who the other baddies are. I still think it would be best to get rid of her, though.

As for why the wraiths would expose an evil Fea by killing Nogrod: they would if they thought he was the Ranger. It seems pretty obvious to me.

EDIT:X'd with Rikae, Mira, Rikae.

[Mirandir]

Things that make Rune look suspicious in my opinion:

I have no really good explanation for voting Durlein other than she seem slightly off. . .and that I really want to keep fea in the game.

Why? I understand wanting to keep someone around for the sake of entertainment (and we all know that Fea is an excellent source of that :p) but it seems like a silly reason to not vote for someone if you have actual suspicions towards them. Now, this is not saying that he had suspicions towards her, just that it's a silly reason to vote someone else.

plus fea supportet me on my day 1 vote, I would be a "skarn" (danish word) not to support her today.

This seems like a very newbie-ish move to me. Yes, I understand feeling a certain sense of loyalty to someone because they agreed with you. However, that is hardly an adequate reason to support them on their next Day vote. It makes it seem like you are unable to come up with justification of your own as to why someone should be killed, or that you are in an ill-hidden alliance. If the latter is the case, however, one would think that he would do a better job of at least attempting to hide it.

Things not about Rune:

Mirandir and Lari - synchronised werewolfing? They both make a list shortly before things get rolling, and neither suspects Durelin. They both defend Fea, they both change their minds on Durelin, they both make a very similar vote post. It is inconceivable that this was planned, so not both of them are wraiths. A wraith-cobbler combo is possible.

If Lari and I were both wolves (wraiths, whatever), do you really think that we would make it so obvious? Given, we are both friends with Fea in RL. However, part of the reason why we are friends has to do with how alike we think. Just because we justify something that Fea says does not mean that we are defending her - or are aligned in any way with each other - but rather that we have the same or similar thought processes.

So you'd rather make an ill-conceived vote later? :D
Precisely. :D

[Macalaure]

And one note about Mac. He is suspicious also by his... politeness, yea, that's the word. He is being so nice to everybody.

*shrug*

Oh Mac, there will be peace... when you hang from a gibbet at your window for the sport of your own crows.

Is that a challenge? Which one of us can get the other lynched first? I accept!

Of course, looking at the current overall suspicions, you have a bit of an advantage. But that’s ok. I want you to have a fair chance.

:p :p


Alright, seriously. Right now, I think Legate is innocent, and heavily misled. Considering how he is after me toDay, I guess I will have to have a closer look at him, too, but not toDay. Whether I will change my mind then, I cannot say, of course. We’ll see. Right now, Legate, please remember that you are liable to get a certain idea of somebody’s guilt and then interpret everything so that it fits this idea. We all know that almost everything can be interpreted to look evil. It’s our objectivity and common sense that tells us whether that evilness is likely or not. To me, it is evident that you have lost yours concerning me (unless, of course, you’re evil yourself).


If Lari and I were both wolves (wraiths, whatever), do you really think that we would make it so obvious?

Umm, no? That’s exactly what I was saying in the lines you quoted... :confused:


I’m sick and therefore won’t stay up until the deadline. I’m happy that at last I don’t seem to be one of the prime candidates (though some seem to consider voting me, and seeing the size of the Fea-saving-fraction, I’m still a little uncomfortable). My prime suspect right now is Lari, but I’ll make up my mind again before I vote.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Things that make Rune look suspicious in my opinion:



Why? I understand wanting to keep someone around for the sake of entertainment (and we all know that Fea is an excellent source of that :p) but it seems like a silly reason to not vote for someone if you have actual suspicions towards them. Now, this is not saying that he had suspicions towards her, just that it's a silly reason to vote someone else.

Is this it? is this all you can conjure Mirandir?
First you understand it and then it is silly, please decide. . .
I guess what you are saying is that I should not have voted at all! That would have been a bad choice, a more or less random vote is still better than no vote.




This seems like a very newbie-ish move to me. Yes, I understand feeling a certain sense of loyalty to someone because they agreed with you. However, that is hardly an adequate reason to support them on their next Day vote. It makes it seem like you are unable to come up with justification of your own as to why someone should be killed, or that you are in an ill-hidden alliance. If the latter is the case, however, one would think that he would do a better job of at least attempting to hide it.


no, it is not an adequate reason. . .

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

++Macalaure

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I put forward the idea that she was a wraith acting like a cobbler earlier, but her unwillingness (see #450) to suspect any of the other Durelin-voters makes her look like a cobbler who isn't sure who the other baddies are.

What? Did I ever say I was unwilling to suspect any of the other Durelin-voters?

*searches out #450*

*reads #450*

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I do not remember ever saying I was unwilling to suspect any of the other Durelin voters. I did say that I thought Rune was innocent.

I don't recall saying anything to that regard about others.

So... what are you talking about?

[Brinniel]

Sally: I found her suspicious yesterDay for her echoing suspicions and playing it safe, and my opinions haven't changed. What's worse is that she was hardly around to contribute yesterDay and hasn't even shown up yet toDay. I understand some of it could be due to RL reasons, but it'd also be very easy for a wraith to avoid the spotlight by keeping quiet and not having any part of the voting fiasco that was yesterDay.

Fea: Looks to be a cobbler or wraith, though more likely the former. I cannot see in any way how her actions yesterDay could have good intentions behind it. Either way, she's too risky to keep alive another Day.

Lariren: The problem I have with her is that her defenses seem shoddy. For one thing, there should've been more to go on than IC posting by the end of Day 2...a lot had happened by then. She says she decided to vote Dury right before Fea did, yet why did it take nearly 25 minutes to post that vote? Also, I don't see why she's so worried about being the possible runner-up against Fea in votes. While plenty of people are talking about her, several others are being talked about too. There's no indication yet that she's going to receive votes, so why so concerned?

Mirandir: Her defenses look more honest than Lari's, but I'd like to hear some further explanation for her vote.

Lommy: While I agree with her suspicion on Sally, I do disagree with how she comes to some conclusions. For one thing, I don't like how many of her opinions of players are based on feeling alone. I don't care for her distrust in me, but then again I honestly can't blame her after I deceived her in the last game she played. Yet even though I do disagree with her on some things, her intentions do look sincere and I believe she is most probably innocent.

Legate: The tone he gives off in his posts feels innocentish, yet at the same time I don't like how he so quickly concludes that Mac must be a wraith and Fea must be a cobbler and leaves almost no room for any other option.

Rikae: Seems so certain that Fea must be a cobbler (though she leaves open the possibility of her being a wraith too). Well I do agree with her, yet she seems so forceful about it, it's almost frightening. I wouldn't eliminate the possibility of a wraith pushing for the lynching of a fellow baddie if it makes her look better.

Aganzir: I'm still not sure about her. I'm slightly leaning towards innocent, as some of her posts do look honest. But at the same time, I'd rather not cast her aside because I know how slick of a wolf she can be.

Beregond: I think he managed to remain fairly sensible compared to others during the voting frenzy. Granted he did vote late, but only by a minute. He has newbieish behaviour, but at the same time he is quite reasonable. Of course, it's possible he's a wraith using newbieness to his advantage, but as of now I see no evidence pointing towards that direction.

Nerwen: I still find her voting on Day 1 suspicious. I don't like that she abstained from voting yesterDay, but she had a good reason for it and she did state she wouldn't vote hours before the deadline. She seems more reasonable toDay, yet careful. I'm still not willing to completely trust her.

Rune: I actually find him the most innocent of Durelin voters. I disapprove of his vote and his reasons behind it, but I don't think he had evil intentions. I think his defense of Fea looks more like someone who likes her as a player and wanted to keep her around for amusement. Not that it's any sort of good reasoning, but I somehow doubt an evil Rune would be so bold to defend her. Plus his judgment was impaired, though that's not a good excuse either. But I think the lesson here is don't drink and vote. :p

Mac: Spends a lot of time defending and trying to save himself, though one can hardly blame him considering he has been a lynch candidate for two Days now. I'm actually not sure why so many suspect him; I find him to be one of the more reasonable players and his posts look honest to me. I'd say he seems more innocent than guilty.

Menel: Is the submarine of the game. The few posts he has made don't look all that suspicious, however I would like to keep a watch on him.

Greenie: I feel slightly better about her than I did yesterDay, but I still don't trust her.

Suspicious
Fea
Sally
Lari

Slightly Suspicious
Nerwen
Greenie

Watching
Legate
Rikae
Menel

Could Be Anything
Mirandir
Aganzir
Beregond

Innocent
Lommy
Rune
Mac

[satansaloser2005]

Never fear, I am here.

I don't suppose anyone would humor the unhelpful little college girl by posting a vote tally so far? :Merisu:

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I have a question:

If I try really hard to stop doing impulsive things, can I stay alive a little longer?

[Mirandir]

Umm, no? That’s exactly what I was saying in the lines you quoted... :confused:

Heh sorry. I tend to not read things all the way through. Consider it a character flaw. I definitely just read the part about it not being planned by two wraiths. Chalk that one up to trying to get a post before being forced to accompany a friend to work. :rolleyes:

[Lariren Shadow]

Lariren: The problem I have with her is that her defenses seem shoddy. For one thing, there should've been more to go on than IC posting by the end of Day 2...a lot had happened by then. She says she decided to vote Dury right before Fea did, yet why did it take nearly 25 minutes to post that vote? Also, I don't see why she's so worried about being the possible runner-up against Fea in votes. While plenty of people are talking about her, several others are being talked about too. There's no indication yet that she's going to receive votes, so why so concerned?

How's this for a defense of my amazing thing to post 25 minutes later: I was still reading posts and thinking. I read slow. Really really slow. So by the time I had gotten through all the posts and the refreshers and made up my mind about who to vote for, yes, it was 25 minutes later and close to the deadline and I wanted to vote before it and therefore had no reasons. I voted for Durelin the Day before and it seemed like my best option at the time(as I stated before).

Can you point to me where I said I thought I would get votes? Clearly everyone thinks I will.

And what if Fea turns out to be innocent? How does that look for me? Who then looks bad? Rune for defending her? Mac and Rikae for pointing out quickly that she could be Ferny?

So, I think I need to vote soon. And I think I really know how to vote. It probably won't be the best way, but I think its the only way I can prove I'm innocent.

[Mirandir]

First you understand it and then it is silly, please decide. . .
I guess what you are saying is that I should not have voted at all! That would have been a bad choice, a more or less random vote is still better than no vote.

Just because I understand something doesn't mean that I don't think it's silly. I understand why people work a million hours a week but still think it's silly. (Lame example, I know, but nothing else came to me.) And I disagree about the voting. I think that no vote is better than a random vote. If you can't come up with a valid justification for a vote, then don't make one.

no, it is not an adequate reason. . .

So are you agreeing that you didn't have a good reason for saving Fea and were floundering for something that sounded a tiny bit reasonable?

x-ed with Lari

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Mac: Spends a lot of time defending and trying to save himself, though one can hardly blame him considering he has been a lynch candidate for two Days now. I'm actually not sure why so many suspect him; I find him to be one of the more reasonable players and his posts look honest to me. I'd say he seems more innocent than guilty.


For me and Legate it seems to be the post (I think it was the first he made today) where Macalaure sumarise and analyze on the ending of Day 2. His analyze seems extremely fabricated and dishonest to say the least. It is quite interesting that me and Legate spottet this independently of each other.

I do agree that other of Macalure's posts seem innocent enough, but it is always hard knowing what to focus ones attention on.

I have a question:

If I try really hard to stop doing impulsive things, can I stay alive a little longer?
Priceless :D

EDIT: Cross posted with Mirandir and Lariren

[Rikae]

I have a question:

If I try really hard to stop doing impulsive things, can I stay alive a little longer?

Maybe next game?

(Nah, in reality I'd advocate lynching you on Day 1 for being too dull. :D)

[Macalaure]

Sally - not sure what to make of her
Fea - I'm really not sure about her. Some things she did are hard to bring together with innocence. If I take away Nogrod's death, which could indeed have been because of suspected rangerdom, she looks pretty darn evil.
Lari - two votes with shady reasons and I just don't buy her explanations for it
Mirandir - I'm willing to have faith in her innocence for now
Lommy - innocent
Legate - innocent, for now
Rikae - innocent
Aganzir - I wanted to have a look at her toDay and she ended up slipping by me entirely. Eventually I'll get back to her
Beregond - feels more innocent
Nerwen - raises no alarms
Rune - hard nut to crack. Definitely should heed Durelin's words and relax
Menel - erm, yeah
Lily - has slipped from my attention a little, but at least nothing suspicious jumped out at me
Brinn - innocent


Can you point to me where I said I thought I would get votes?

May I be of assistance? ;)

There is a high probability it will come down to her and me today and, well, I'd vote her to save myself.


And what if Fea turns out to be innocent? How does that look for me? Who then looks bad?

Legate. :p

[Brinniel]

Can you point to me where I said I thought I would get votes?

Right here:

Why would I be happy to lynch Fea today? Same reason you would be, to not die. There is a high probability it will come down to her and me today and, well, I'd vote her to save myself.

EDIT: X-ed with Mac

[Lariren Shadow]

plus fea supportet me on my day 1 vote, I would be a "skarn" (danish word) not to support her today.

Alright, while I keep deciding who to vote for and contemplating, I would like to say that I took a leaf out of Edward's book and googled "skarn". Which means, at least in one place, "bad boy, maker of trouble". Is this a clue to what Rune is?

[Mirandir]

Alright, while I keep deciding who to vote for and contemplating, I would like to say that I took a leaf out of Edward's book and googled "skarn". Which means, at least in one place, "bad boy, maker of trouble". Is this a clue to what Rune is?

Could be, or it could be that he's Danish. ;)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Just because I understand something doesn't mean that I don't think it's silly. I understand why people work a million hours a week but still think it's silly. (Lame example, I know, but nothing else came to me.) And I disagree about the voting. I think that no vote is better than a random vote. If you can't come up with a valid justification for a vote, then don't make one.




Alright, but my guess is that you will find very little backing in Bree for that view, at least not voting used to be frowned upon.


So are you agreeing that you didn't have a good reason for saving Fea and were floundering for something that sounded a tiny bit reasonable?

No not at all. . . I stand by my reason to vote for Durelin, my reason remain that I wanted Fea around, the thing about repaying he for voting Brinn on Day 1 was just a random comment. . .random comments is kind of my thing.

It is easy enough to fabricate a reason for voting for a person, trust me, if I had been a wraith I would have made up an excuse that had to do with Durelin's posts.

Anyways it is a poor case, but it probably comes down to the fact that you have hardly played with me and thus make obvious mistakes when analyzing my actions.

Good night. . .it is late and I want sleep.

EDIT: Cross posted with everybody since Mac

[Nerwen]

What? Did I ever say I was unwilling to suspect any of the other Durelin-voters?

*searches out #450*

*reads #450*

I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I do not remember ever saying I was unwilling to suspect any of the other Durelin voters. I did say that I thought Rune was innocent.

I don't recall saying anything to that regard about others.

So... what are you talking about?

This, Fea, is you on the subject of the Durelin-voters, all in one post.

I really didn't want Mac lynched in a last minute bandwagon (though I had no evidence to back that desire up)-


You tried to save Mac last night (I can't recall seeing anything to back this up, but very well). You didn't say "but toDay I've changed my mind about him" or anything like that. So I guess that would mean you still thought he was probably innocent.


Rune really wanted me to stay alive.

You don't say, "but he could have been manipulating me". So Rune's probably innocent.

Just- I'm ordo this time around

So you're innocent.

You say of either Lari or Mira (can't tell which) "No more newbie grace period. She's smart. I don't trust her. Nobody else should". But further down you say:


I lean more toward manipulated newbies, for all that I didn't really intend for them to get manipulated.

So they're probably innocent.

There you go. That's all of them, apart from the late Nogrod.

EDIT: X'd since Sally at #536.
EDIT2:fixed bolding.

[Mirandir]

Anyways it is a poor case, but it probably comes down to the fact that you have hardly played with me and thus make obvious mistakes when analyzing my actions.

So what you've just said to me is that because I'm a new player and you're experienced I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about and have no ability to read into anything because I don't have a brain. That's pretty much what I'm taking away from that comment right there. I haven't played with any of the people in this game before and none of them have had the gall to essentially tell me that I have no idea what I'm doing. I take extreme offense to that.

I'm going to take some time and calm down and perhaps actually do some homework before I post anything else that I might regret.

[Rikae]

Rune, since you're around, care to answer a question?

What made you think Fea was in such danger yesterDay and needed saving?

[Macalaure]

Rikae -> Fea
Lily -> Fea
Lommy -> Sally
Aganzir -> Fea
Legate -> Fea
Rune -> Mac

Fea 4, Sally 1, Mac 1

I definitely can live with a lynched Fea, but I suspect Lari a bit more and will vote for her.

++Lariren Shadow

I hope Rikae won't have to come and wake me up telling me that I have to retract to save myself. :rolleyes: ;)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

So what you've just said to me is that because I'm a new player and you're experienced I clearly have no idea what I'm talking about and have no ability to read into anything because I don't have a brain. That's pretty much what I'm taking away from that comment right there. I haven't played with any of the people in this game before and none of them have had the gall to essentially tell me that I have no idea what I'm doing. I take extreme offense to that.

I'm going to take some time and calm down and perhaps actually do some homework before I post anything else that I might regret.

No, what I am saying is that it is a massive advantage to have played with another person before, it gives you a lot better chance of analyzing their actions. What you sugest is my resoning for voting as I did, is simply so far from how I normally play and not something I belive I would ever do. . .
Obviously you have just as much chance of getting a wraith as anybody else, but in this case I know that you are wrong.

Anyways I could also interpret your words as you saying that I am too slow to (as a wraith) think of a proper excuse for a vote and therefor comes up simple atention atracting reasons like "I like this person"

[Nerwen]

Anyway, I may as well vote

++Fea.

EDIT: I've already said why I think she's evil.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Rune, since you're around, care to answer a question?

What made you think Fea was in such danger yesterDay and needed saving?

As I remember it I got the impression that Nogrod's case of lynching Fea was gaining support, then I simply voted for the one I thought had the better chance of getting Lynched (It stood between Mac and Durelin)

Seriously, I want to go to bed now!

EDIT: Cross posted with Nerwen

[Meneltarmacil]

YIKES! I totally forgot about the game going on until now!

OK, my suspicions and probable innocents:

Not suspicious:
Aganzir and Brinn from what I said before.
Legate, who seems to be pretty helpful and level-headed and whose reasoning I can agree with.

Suspicious:
Mac and Fea, the former for his confusing Ferny statement and role in Gollum's Day 1 lynch and the latter for reasons that are obvious to everyone.
Rikae, to a much lesser extent due to the Seer comments.

I really can't decide between Mac and Fea right now, but I will vote for someone within the next 30 minutes. Do your best to sway me until then. I'll be over at the Pony getting drunk.

[Nerwen]

I see Mac has posted another of his "everyone in this village is just lovely" lists, with the exception of the obviously doomed Fea and of Lariren Shadow, also under heavy suspicion.

I thought it would be interesting to see who Mac votes for when he's not simply trying to save his own skin. It turns out to be Lari. I need to think this out.

EDIT: X'd with Menel.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

You tried to save Mac last night (I can't recall seeing anything to back this up, but very well). You didn't say "but toDay I've changed my mind about him" or anything like that. So I guess that would mean you still thought he was probably innocent.

I haven't changed my mind about him. I still don't support the lynching of Mac. So the guy I've been trying to keep around all game, I'm still hoping to keep around. Okay... I'm with you so far...

You don't say, "but he could have been manipulating me". So Rune's probably innocent.

I said I thought he was probably innocent. Not that I was against suspecting him. Based on personal experience, I simply think Rune wants to keep me around.

So you're innocent.

I know quite well I'm innocent.

You say of either Lari or Mira (can't tell which) "No more newbie grace period. She's smart. I don't trust her. Nobody else should".

That was about Miri, but holds true for Lari as well. Grace period over. They're initiated. If suspected, they shouldn't be treated lightly. This is a blanket statement which has pretty much nothing to do with Durelin. A simple comment of "it's been long enough; they can be held accountable now."

So they're probably innocent.

Probably/maybe/who knows. I suggested that they followed along because they're new and had nothing better to go on, so figured there was no harm in joining the vote. I did not intend to suggest that being new made them innocent, or that I wasn't willing to assume they had malicious intentions.

There you go. That's all of them, apart from the late Nogrod.

So basically what you're trying to argue is that saying I see nothing wrong with people agreeing me means that I think everybody who agrees with me is innocent?

I'm not going to suspect people for sharing my inclinations.

If you're expecting me to start finger-pointing, you've got a long wait. I have no evidence. I'm ordinary. I have nothing to go on but gut instinct. I've got to make votes, but they are all qualified by the fact that the only information available to me is the thoughts I have and the words others speak.

Of those who voted Durelin with me, I think Lari is an ordo, I think Miri is either an ordo or a sneaky wraith (but I lean more toward ordo based on the care with which she constructs her posts and the way she reacts to Nights); I think Rune wouldn't follow me as loyally as a puppy if he had something to hide, though I can't guarantee that without knowing his role; I think Mac could be anything, because I've seen him first hand in several roles, and I'm done trying to protect him. Hopefully the fervor for his demise has faded, because I think he's useful to keep around. As for Nog? Rest in peace, old buddy. We know he was innocent.

What made you think Fea was in such danger yesterDay and needed saving?

Totally fair question. I await an answer, if you haven't gone to bed yet, Rune. Because up until people started noticing Nog's comment, I took it as a joke. Hence my teasing/flirty "Stop that!"

As I remember it I got the impression that Nogrod's case of lynching Fea was gaining support, then I simply voted for the one I thought had the better chance of getting Lynched (It stood between Mac and Durelin)

Ah.

Still... I'm not at all sure people took Nog seriously until you came to my 'rescue'... I took Mirandir's enthusiastic response as a joke at my expense, and I don't particularly remember who else was 'supporting' the idea.

I know I wasn't concerned about my own wellbeing at that moment, though. I was too busy trying to kill Durelin. Honestly, I swear I was just trying to figure out how anybody innocent could keep posting in character when what the village was looking for was some sort of substance or personal thought.

Ugh... I don't want to have to vote for somebody I don't suspect or barely suspect in order to try to save myself.

At the risk of reminding everybody of last night's fiasco, anybody with me on wanting to lynch Rikae to find out what the seer thing was about yesterday?

Then again, I'm more enthusiastic about lynching Legate because he's claiming such certainty about my role when I know perfectly well that certainty of my role necessitates his statements about me being blatant lies. Either he's lying or he's just really, really confidently wrong.

[Brinniel]

Honestly, I swear I was just trying to figure out how anybody innocent could keep posting in character when what the village was looking for was some sort of substance or personal thought.
But you see, the difference between her IC posts and the IC banter on Day 1 is that I think it did provide some personal thought, even if subtly. I find IC posting typical of Durelin; it's a style she's comfortable with. However, it apparently makes everyone else uncomfortable for some reason. IC posting shouldn't always be considered suspicious, and it is possible to provide substance in an IC post. After all, some WW games are played out entirely in character.

[Mirandir]

I am going to bed. Tired to the point of not being able to stay up for another 2 hours for deadline. That being said, my vote is for Rune for the reasons stated above. I don't have the energy to come up with any more attacks.

++Rune

[Meneltarmacil]

OK, I'll vote. And since I'm still undecided, I'm actually going to roll a d20 to figure this out. 1-10 and my vote goes to Mac. 11-20, and it's Fea who gets it.

2.

++Macalaure

[Beregond]

I can't believe I've spent so much time reading through, and I feel more muddled than ever. At any rate, I gave up reading through to the end, so I'm going to ignore a page and post before it's too late. I apologize in advance if I forget to bold any names or make other mistakes. I typed this in a notepad and have to make adjustments after.

I'm not really more muddled though...not quite... I'm starting to agree with the idea of Fea being guilty, though I wanted to be skeptical. I'm also not letting Mac off the hook. So, in otherwords, I'm agreeing with popular opinion. Hmn. :(



*******

Responding to Legate:

Like Rikae said, the red herring is just a figure of speech. I didn't even know you were a herring, though now I recall seeing it somewhere. :)

And no offense taken, calling me a newbie, although you also say I could be using it for a cloak. Well, I may have been, but I'm trying to avoid it now.

*******



So again in no particular order:


Sally: I keep hearing "Sally is just being Sally" which is very unhelpful, since I don't know Sally. But I don't have an opinion on her innocence. Like Dury, I just don't know, so wouldn't vote.

Legate: doing his best to seem innocent by being very helpful - I'm buying it still. I really hope he isn't evil, because he's making a lot of sense.

Mira: I'm prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt on the Dury vote - she's Fea's friend, right? And her first game - don't blame her for wanting to keep Fea alive. But all 5 Dury voters do need extra-careful watching.

Lari: Including Lari. She was the first to question Fea's guilt, then not long after:

Now if we were to try to lynch Fea toDay, I'd be more for it than anyone else(unless maybe Mac or Rikae because, well, Mac has been sort of saved twice now and some of Rikae's posts are making me wonder)

...which Mac pointed out. But I think it's acceptable that she was just trying to make sure all sides of the story were examined, because up to that point Fea didn't have many supporters. And then wanted to clarify that she in fact does find Fea suspicious.


Agan: I don't really like to comment on her argument with Lommy, except that it WAS public. I don't know them well enough, but it occurred to me, and Lari after, that it might be a good means of "separation" if they were both wraiths.

Lommy: same.

Rune: not seeming so innocent anymore after last Day. Then again, his defending Fea is almost too obvious, for a wraith. Good explanation by him too. Don't know what to think.

Nerwen: excellent chronology of the passing of Durelin! Good contribution, going the extra mile, makes her look less suspicious, which could be a cunning plan. But I had no reason of my own to suspect her before, and I still don't. I thank her for that post!

Mac: good first post. If you're innocent I can accept your explanation for the vote. And point taken about putting my list in late! However, I didn't vote for you the first two days for nothing, and I'm still watching you. May go through posts again to see if I can find more to support my gut, because if you are a wraith, and Fea is Ferny, I'd be more disposed to get rid of a wraith. I just think Fea may be more obvious right now.

Menel: waaaaaay under the rader - could be anything at all. Like Sally.

Rikae: strikes me as innocent still. Or VERY devious. Possible.

Brinn: Got nothing on her except her reputation as being a wraith when people have nothing on her.

Greenie: also under the radar (at least, my radar - I'd forgot to add her to the list - sorry Greenie!) Hasn't done anything since yesterday to make me suspect her more than I did.


Am I forgetting someone? Yes, Fea...


So it looks like the question of the day is this: is Fea really guilty?

I'm going to try to break it down a bit.

Well, I didn't suspect Fea yesterDay, though others did, obviously more aware of her apparent guiles than I. When Fea asked about Rikae's seer-joke it didn't seem suspicious to me, because, well, I did it too. Not so good for me. But I still don't find that particular incident suspicious. Not that I would know, I suppose.

People agreed about Fea's guilt to varying extents. But there was argument over why:


Nog's death could affect Fea in (at least) two ways:

1. It places more suspicion on the other Dury the Innocent voters, because Nog was innocent, so surely one or more of the other voters was guilty? And Fea stands out, having (I gather) a reputation; being the first to vote.

2. Since Nog was wrong, and he was a good guy, then maybe the other Dury voters are good guys too.

My initial reaction was that the other voters became even more suspicious, especially since, although he pointed out Dury's IC comments, Nog was the last to vote, and even considered voting for Fea himself. So the Dury bandwagon wasn't necessarily all his doing.

Option 2 is possible as well, but the real question is which conclusion Fea would have counted on people having, were she a wraith?

And if she were Ferny, then do we even know if there's a relation between Nog's death and Fea at all? We've been assuming that Ferny is known by the wraiths. Why? If Fea were Ferny and the wraiths didn't know her, then Nog's death neither makes Fea innocent nor guilty.

Which leaves me very confused. :(

So what other things make Fea guilty or suspicious?

The fact that Rune stuck up for her, even before it seemed she needed it. This would only apply if Rune was also an evil one.
That her "vote post" may have started a bandwagon.
Claimed to vote Dury to save Mac; also claimed she didn't expect anyone else to vote with her; said (roughly) it didn't hurt to try anyway.
Like Legate said: Fea should not have talked about gifteds (even I knew not to discuss the ranger, or who Frodo might be, even if I reply to Rikae when she called herself the seer in jest).


******


Regarding late voting: to be late, or to be early.

I think it's good to wait till later to see what might develop, so that one doesn't throw one's vote away if it could be used better. The danger, of course, is being accused of jumping on the bandwagon simply because others voted before you. Or of late-night frenzies as we saw last time, with people scrambling to make the deadline (woah, appropriate word), and maybe not having time to think properly.

I'm going to try to vote earlier today. But I have the luxury of not having to go to bed too soon, so I'll watch what happens, just must get mine in before the deadline.



Gaaaaaah, I don't know if I'll read the rest of the posts tonight.

[Nerwen]

Macalaure.

I don't know what to think about him. His posts don't overall feel particularly evil... but he's said some pretty odd things that may or may not be wolf-slips. I think he originated the notion that Fea was framed... and Fea has been supporting him– so knowing her role may shed light on his. (Edit: though not so much if she's just a cobbler, since I don't see how the wraiths would know for sure.)

Lariren Shadow

Once thing I'm surprised about is that no-one has commented on Lari's posts about the Ranger (#462) and Ferny (#494).
As it is quite impossible that a Wraith Shadow wouldn't know this stuff by now, these comment are either proof of innocence, or a deliberate attempt to play dumb. There's nothing in between.

The question is, which seems more likely?

EDIT: X'd with a host. Added comment for clarification.

[Lariren Shadow]

Rikae -> Fea
Lily -> Fea
Lommy -> Sally
Aganzir -> Fea
Legate -> Fea
Rune -> Mac
Mac -> Lari
Nerwen -> Fea
Miri -> Rune
Menel -> Mac

Fea 5, Mac 2, Sally 1, Lari 1, and Rune 1

I'm ready to change that.

Thinking it over I have three people I would vote for.

Fea: For the reasons that she is guilty because she generally is assumed guilty. But she's not acting like she did the last time she was accused of being guilty. She fully admitted it then. I know she said that her style changes, but if we go by horoscopes then she should be proclaiming to the world that she is evil. Then again mine says I should love travel, the outdoors, freedom, justice, honest, and straightforward, while still being blindly optimistic and restless. Who knows?

Rune: I don't like how he assumes that people should know how he plays. I get it if other people think he's playing as he usually does, but his whole thing is rubbing me the wrong way. I just don't like it. And if what I found was a clue then I'm inclinded to think he's guilty. He seems to like picking fights with other players to throw suspicion on them(Brinn the first day and then Miri toDay).

Mac: He's been making lists that show very few people guilty(like the last one was two). In the last game I seem to remember him being more observant than that. Given there was a lot more of sort of obvious acting out then, but I still think that its a little strange to only incriminate two people on Day 3 and not have a good idea about others.

So my vote is:

++Mac

I really don't think Fea is acting like a guilty party considering her later posts. It seems more like her to proclaim guilt than innocences right now.

I still don't like how Rune looks, but I'm tired, still need to read about why Feudalism should not even be a concept, and have no more energy to defend myself.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

(even I knew not to discuss the ranger, or who Frodo might be, even if I reply to Rikae when she called herself the seer in jest).

Repeat after me, kids: "If something exists, it is fair game to discuss."

Rikae -> Fea
Lily -> Fea
Lommy -> Sally
Aganzir -> Fea
Legate -> Fea
Rune -> Mac
Mac -> Lari
Nerwen -> Fea
Mirandir -> Rune
Menel -> Mac
Lari -> Mac

Fea 5, Mac 3, Sally 1, Lari 1, Rune 1

++Mac

*feels heart break just a wee bit*

I didn't want to do that, but I also don't want to die.

So now-

Rikae -> Fea
Lily -> Fea
Lommy -> Sally
Aganzir -> Fea
Legate -> Fea
Rune -> Mac
Mac -> Lari
Nerwen -> Fea
Mirandir -> Rune
Menel -> Mac
Lari -> Mac
Fea -> Mac

Fea 5, Mac 4, Sally 1, Lari 1, Rune 1

[Brinniel]

I have a headache and I still have readings to do for class which I'd prefer to finish not too late. And there's really no reason not to vote now since I'm already decided.

++Fea

Anyway, her behaviour still reminds me of how she acted last time she was a cobbler-like character.

[Beregond]

Repeat after me, kids: "If something exists, it is fair game to discuss."


Um, no, I don't buy that... sorry, Fea, you'll have to convince some already-voteds if you want to stick around. :)


++Fea


My reasons: Some are listed in my previous post. Although I'm very tempted to vote for Mac, I don't think he's the most obvious choice toDay - nor do I think that vote could be swung, now - though if a wraith he would be a better choice, if Fea wasn't looking so guilty.

Even if Fea is innocent we'll have a better idea of where some people stand, once we know her role. In fact if she's innocent it would look pretty bad for a few... but I don't think that's the case (and wouldn't vote for her if I thought so).

Unfortunately if she's the cobbler we won't be certain that wraiths didn't vote against her - both with the sacrifice theory and the fact that Ferny and Wraiths may not know each other.

But I've weighed the options, time will judge!


By the way, where is everyone? I guess people go to bed earlier on the weekdays? I thought this would be another late night post-party. Kinda glad it isn't. :)

[Nerwen]

And now Mac is back in the running... and, equally, knowing his role would cast light on Fea's.

So... do I retract and vote the possible wraith instead of the probable Ferny?

By the way, I wasn't thinking clearly before: actually, one of Mac's possible wolf-slips, if that's what they were, was that he seemed to know that the wraiths knew Ferny's identity. I can't find the quote, though.

X'd since Brinniel and Beregond.

[Nerwen]

And then, of course, what does Fea's voting Mac, but defending him previously, signify? If she's the cobbler, then it seems she's only guessing at the wolves' identity. Besides, I really don't know how they would have communicated.

My head hurts.:(

[Beregond]

I know, it's a tough call.

I think only Sally hasn't voted. And you can expect Mac to change his vote from Lari if needed (I was surprised he didn't go for Fea, because he seemed to think her guilty enough).

[satansaloser2005]

A bit of a mish mash, but here are some thoughts.


Angels
Legate - still gives me no reason to suspect himself, seems sharp, honest and open. Actually, the only thing that troubles me about him is that he doesn't trouble me at all...
Mac - my gut-feeling says he's innocent, after all. Besides, he has made some good points in his defense, like for example that if he really was making wolf-slips all the time, he'd be far more nervous by now.
Nerwen - I just don't suspect her.
Rikae - despite the fact that I've disagreed quite a lot with her lately, I think she's innocent.
Rune - all the "proof" I've seen points at his innocence.

Gargoyles
Aganzir - I hate to admit this, but now that I'm less annoyed with her, I'm also less suspicious of her. I'm sure she really bears watching, though.
Beregond - seems sensible, calm and smart, but maybe indeed using the newbie-shield too much? I have to say I'm not too worried, though.
Fea - throughout the game, I've had a gut-feeling that she's not a wolf. And she does have very innocent posts. On the other hand, like discussed very extensively, she's been acting really fishily. But like I've said, it's unlikely she's a wraith - whether she's ordo or Ferny, that can be debated and to that, I have no answer.
Greenie - I don't know, currently I have the feeling I can't read her but she seems ok. (See? My suspicion of her fades with the general one...)
Menel - I have to admit I let him slip under my radar. Just because he seems innocent enough.
Mira - seemed very innocent on Day1, less so on Day2. I'd like to hear more of her.

Demons
Brinniel - I know it's silly she's stuck here, but I can't help it, it's just a gut feeling that she's up to no good. I have little actual rational reasons to suspect her but I just don't trust her. And no, it's really not just because of last game.
Lari - flip-floppy and not convincing. I'm worried, though, that she might become the "easy victim" for the lynch.
sally - I have a bad feeling about her, I don't like her chipper attitude and aplogising/flip-flopping. She has said some weird stuff, some I have even commented, but I don't remember them well enough to quote them here.

If I have time toDay, I'd love to have a look at either sally or Brinn to see if there are any rational reasons to suspect them. Probably at sally because she's evaded the spotlight far more carefully than Brinn...


edit: xed with Rikae and Agan

You don't like that I'm perky and cheerful? And flip-flopping? I don't see how. (Oh, never mind I remember why she said that. Retracted, because I can see why she thought that, wrong though it may be.) Her thoughts, however, include mostly "I don't know, but they're (insert role guess) because of (insert non-existent reasoning). Not that I'm not guilty of that a lot too, but it just strikes me as strange. Also, I disagree about Rune, which I'll probably explain a bit later in another post.

Mac makes some sense throughout the Day, but I believe if anyone, he is up to impersonating a sensible innocent while being a Wolf and wishing all the worst.

Also, it is possible him offering these four options for why Shasta was killed was a way of him presenting some options to the innocents: "And now, choose, come all, come all! Do you want to believe X is a Wolf? Option #1 is just what you need! Or would you rather suspect Y? Come on, I am offering you this brand-new option #2! Go and lynch them!" etc.

The way Beregond reacted to this joke of Rikae's (her saying that she is the seer) - I don't like it. A newbie could ask if it was a joke, yes, why not, but the way he ends up thinking about it seriously... still, he is a newbie.

But what more, Fea was feeding it. She is obviously desperately trying to make the Wolves know she is on their side. Because otherwise, I cannot imagine HER - an experienced player - getting confused by somebody like Beregond (read: a newbie. No offense, Beregond) and actually questioning this obvious joke! And I do not even stop to think that Fea could even consider this a serious revelation. Come on.

And Menel actually said a good thing about this:



Which makes me think - was this an attempt from Fea to draw out the real Seer? Quite possible. Very possible.

And related, one more thing to Beregond:

I don't get this, is "red herring" any saying, or does it have anything to do with me? (You know, my role.) Like, if Berewolf could give hints to Fea Ferny, trying to communicate, like that I was the Seer, or something?

Mac's list in #326 is so "neutral" (in the sense: most people are "innocent" or "no idea about" or such), so that I can imagine it as a list of a Wolf trying to be on good terms with everyone, especially as it seems that he may be suspected by some.
(Which is, as I see, exactly what Rikae said in her post right after that.)

I have to ask, at this moment, why the heck was Mac not lynched yesterDay? At this point (where I am reading now), it looks so obvious! <= Okay, now I wrote this when I was still reading the thread, this is written when I am actually posting the post: I would not call that "so obvious" anymore, but still, he looks Wolfy enough.

And, okay, I haven't read toDay yet, but I can think of one reason (as I am reading through yesterDay) why Nog was killed: because the Wolves thought he is a Ranger. And why? Because they thought he is a Ranger and is annoyed by the fact that (according to him) Durelin was impersonating him. A normal person would not have taken Dury's "ranger impersonation" (in my opinion, and probably also in the Wolves' opinion, as I really don't get what Nog followed by that - that was really an obvious IC post) in any serious manner, but a Ranger could perhaps be more attentive and startled by that? However, it showed that Nog was not a Ranger after all. But I can imagine the scenario working like that.



Geez! And again! Okay, I don't mind when Mirandir asks about debating about the Ranger, he is a newbie. But Fea AGAIN joins in a speculation which started (by a newbie's remark) about a Gifted's role! Gifteds are not to be speculated about! They are too valuable for the village to reveal, for Eru's sake, not unless there is any good reason for them to do that! Fea is not a newbie, she should know that. SHE IS A COBBLER! There can be NO OTHER explanation.

****

My two most important conclusions of Day 2:

1. Fea is an OBVIOUS Cobbler. Informer. Bill Ferny. Whatever you call it.
2. Mac is likely a Wolf. Wraith. Whatever you call it.

These two information, unless they get relativised by what I read today, are two basic things I would like to propose in front of you to consider. I really can't see how anybody can think otherwise (about Fea at least), and how people might have voted Durelin, for mostly quite silly reasons (need to look at that once again, but in general, saving Fea makes little sense - even though of course it is better to lynch a Wraith than an Informer, though - but when she was about to go already... people were actually saving her, that's what was the worst on that).

Now onto toDay and I will be with you in the present.


Sorry, I know it's a huge quote and just a bit of reaction, but I want to know why he is so sure of these two facts. As I said before (though poorly, unfortunately) I think Mac was fairly honest in his intentions yesterDay. I realize he looked fairly suspicious, but it seems to me that he was truly just trying to save himself, and (as others have said) the wraiths could have jumped at the chance to kill Durie. Not to say that they did, but I'm pretty sure that Mac was just worried about survival. (In particular, I'm worried about Rikae, who easily could be a baddie just hiding behind a love of Mac and ice cream. :p)

I don't know about the Nog=ranger theory though. I don't think he would have acted the way he did if he was the ranger, so I'm thinking it was either to appear to set up Fea or just a random kill. Or to screw with us.

Legate, whew, thank goodness somebody sees through Fea. I thought I was going crazy here. I do still say a wolfish Fea can act cobblerish, though (which only makes her a more attractive lynch, of course).

Mac... well, I don't think he's Ferny, and I don't think he's an ordo. Ergo, I'll let him fight his own battles. I focus on him too much in these games.

By the way, "red herring" is a saying. It means a distracting, false hint, basically.

I was going to finish looking at Lommy, but I'm finding her more innocentish anyway.... perhaps my time would be better spent looking at Lari.

It also occurs to me that this whole crazy situation could very easily allow some wolves to put themselves in a positive light simply by being on the right side of this Fea-Dury nonsense. In fact, I suspect that's one of the main purposes of the whole fiasco.

Be back later.

Very good point. People have said that the wraiths were responsible for getting Durie killed, but they could have just as easily avoided the lynch in order to make sure they couldn't be traced by it.



If the ringbearer is changed it will be known.

Good to know. I had the strangest dream concerning the game last Night and it involved Frodo and some really strange stuff. (Random, I know.) Anyway, I was going to check the rules but now I don't have to. Heh.


Things that make Rune look suspicious in my opinion:

I understand wanting to keep someone around for the sake of entertainment (and we all know that Fea is an excellent source of that) but it seems like a silly reason to not vote for someone if you have actual suspicions towards them. Now, this is not saying that he had suspicions towards her, just that it's a silly reason to vote someone else.

This seems like a very newbie-ish move to me. Yes, I understand feeling a certain sense of loyalty to someone because they agreed with you. However, that is hardly an adequate reason to support them on their next Day vote. It makes it seem like you are unable to come up with justification of your own as to why someone should be killed, or that you are in an ill-hidden alliance. If the latter is the case, however, one would think that he would do a better job of at least attempting to hide it.

I agree with this, and Rune's 'defense' of his action later does nothing to dissuade me. You don't defend someone just because they agree with you. For all you know they could be playing you (or you them, as the case may be). Rune has been giving me bad vibes for a bit now and this definitely didn't help. Just because someone voted in a way that pleased you yesterDay doesn't mean you should return the favor toDay. Unless of course I'm the someone in question.:Merisu:



I have a question:

If I try really hard to stop doing impulsive things, can I stay alive a little longer?

I haven't refreshed in a while but I'm guessing no. :p

Alright, while I keep deciding who to vote for and contemplating, I would like to say that I took a leaf out of Edward's book and googled "skarn". Which means, at least in one place, "bad boy, maker of trouble". Is this a clue to what Rune is?

Doubtful, but I'd laugh if it was.


Okay, posting this so I can catch up again and get to my real thoughts instead of just reaction type stuff. Back soon~!



EDIT: x'd with a ton because my computer was being a butt so I wasn't able to do all I wanted and I'm behind again. Blast.

[satansaloser2005]

Well as stated in my above post I think Rune looks pretty dern suspicious. I'll agree that Fea has acted pretty off herself, but I also think that if Fea was a cobbler she would
A: not be quite as obvious (though that could be a x-level bluff)
B: wait until later to get herself killed (unless she thought she was saving a wolf)
C: take ownership of her cobblerism, not try to save herself



I'd rather see Fea go than Mac, of course, but my first choice would be Rune. I'm guessing that no one would want to retract and vote him? *cricket* Thought not.

[satansaloser2005]

Call it a throwaway if you like but I'm going with my instincts. If by some randomness other people decide to help me kill him, so be it. Either way I'll know that I did what I thought was best, doncha know.



++Rune



Oh, and I'm parched. Maybe Fea'll buy me a drink to say farewell? ;)

[Nerwen]

Call it a throwaway if you like but I'm going with my instincts. If by some randomness other people decide to help me kill him, so be it. Either way I'll know that I did what I thought was best, doncha know.



++Rune



Oh, and I'm parched. Maybe Fea'll buy me a drink to say farewell? ;)

Yes, that is a throwaway vote, Sally. We've only got a few minutes left, and Fea has about seven votes, Mac has four and Rune has only two, counting yours. Besides, I don't think Rune's guilty.

I just want to say this: Sally generally rings my alarm bells at some point during a game. To be fair, I'm often wrong about her... but for what it's worth, she's ringing them now. She seems to be making a desperate last minute attempt to save Mac and Fea. I think there's some other reasons, too, but I might not have time to pinpoint them.

EDIT: fixed bolding.

[satansaloser2005]

Yes, that is a throwaway vote, Sally. We've only got a few minutes left, and Fea has about seven votes, Mac has four and Rune has only two, counting yours. Besides, I don't think Rune's guilty.

I just want to say this: Sally generally rings my alarm bells at some point during a game. To be fair, I'm often wrong about her... but for what it's worth, she's ringing them now. She seems to be making a desperate last minute attempt to save Mac and Fea. I think there's some other reasons, too, but I might not have time to pinpoint them.

EDIT: fixed bolding.



No, I don't have a problem with Fea getting lynched. I'll admit to trying to prevent killing Mac though. Well, sort of.

And when do you not suspect me? ;)

I think Rune's guilty. I'd have voted him no matter what time of the Day it was, so a 'desperate last minute attempt' at anything is a major misdiagnosis. Just saying. :D

[Beregond]

Well, it looks official. Lets go to bed! Yay! :D

[Kitanna]

Time! Fea's death will be up in a matter of minutes.

[satansaloser2005]

Well, it looks official. Lets go to bed! Yay! :D




A bit bloodthirsty, are we? :smokin:


EDIT: Blast. X'd with the moddess. Sorry, darling.

[Kitanna]

Fea could see her number was up. Though others were in the running, as Day drew to a close it was more obvious with every second the angry villagers would have her head. Who would care for her prize belladonnas now?

The village was quite sure Billy Ferny was masquerading as Fea. What better disguise than to be a woman? “Kill her!” An overwhelming amount of voices called out.

“There are others who are more suspicious than she.” A few other cried. But they failed to unify and vote the same. Fea was doomed.

While the village bickered and argued over what to do, the gardener moved away to say good-bye to her precious flowers. She had no intention of running off, she just wanted to see something beautiful before dying. Though she entertained the idea of running off down the road she knew they're persue, best to get it over with quickly.

“Hey!” Nerwen yelled. “Where'd she go?”

“She's over in her garden!” Rune pointed.

The villagers moved in their angry mob. Fea ignored the noise as they came closer. She just hummed to herself, tending to her flowers. Beregond picked up her hoe and swung it hard. Though the impact wasn't enough to remove Fea's head from her shoulders it was strong enough to sever her spinal cord. Blood spurted out, coating all the plants near Fea.

She fell to one side, her body twitching a little. When she had stopped moving Rikae went forward. “Let's see if Fea's really Mr. Ferny.” Rikae lifted up Fea's skirt to get a peek. Embarrassed she lowered the skirt, her face turning red. “She's not Bill Ferny.”

Fea had been innocent of any crimes.

Living
satansaloser2005
Lariren Shadow
Mirandir
Thinlómien
Legate of Amon Lanc
Rikae
Aganzir
Beregond
Nerwen
Rune Son of Bjarne
Macalaure
Meneltarmacil
A Little Green
Brinniel

Dead
Kitanna – Made an example of Night 1 (moddess)
Gollum the Great – Eaten by hogs Day 1 (innocent)
Shastanis Althreduin – Forced to swallow a sword Night 2 (innocent)
Durelin – Hanged on Day 2 (innocent)
Nogrod – Disemboweled and hanged by own intestines Night 3 (innocent)
Feanor of the Peredhil – Hoed to death Day 3 (innocent)

[Kitanna]

The name Mr. Underhill couldn't be safe forever while the ringbearer was in Bree. After a few nights in Bree Mr. Underhill knew he was no longer safe. The wraiths were in the room, sniffing. The ringbearer was hiding under the bed, fingering the Ring.

They were sniffing for the ringbearer and in a moment of weakness Mr. Underhill slipped the Ring on. The wraiths shrieked and flipped the bed over. It was all over. A new threat entered the village.

Living
satansaloser2005
Lariren Shadow
Mirandir
Thinlómien
Legate of Amon Lanc
Rikae
Aganzir
Beregond
Nerwen
Rune Son of Bjarne
Macalaure
Meneltarmacil
A Little Green
Brinniel

Dead
Kitanna – Made an example of Night 1 (moddess)
Gollum the Great – Eaten by hogs Day 1 (innocent)
Shastanis Althreduin – Forced to swallow a sword Night 2 (innocent)
Durelin – Hanged on Day 2 (innocent)
Nogrod – Disemboweled and hanged by own intestines Night 3 (innocent)
Feanor of the Peredhil – Hoed to death Day 3 (innocent)

[Beregond]

*written in the excitement after last lynching*

Well, I've learned a lesson from yesterDay. I don't know what the lesson is, but I've learnt it. I was pretty shocked reading Kit's narrative of Fea's untimely end. At my own hands, I might add. (by the way, Sally, I was grinning at being able to go to bed, not at Fea's imminent death) - I ain't bloodthirsty like that. :p And I'm not prone to wielding hoes - a madness took me! Sorry Fea. :(

And now what I said earlier is coming back to haunt me:

Even if Fea is innocent we'll have a better idea of where some people stand, once we know her role. In fact if she's innocent it would look pretty bad for a few... but I don't think that's the case (and wouldn't vote for her if I thought so).

Well, I hope I was right, although when I wrote that I was looking for reasons to justify my choice - I didn't expect her to be innocent in fact.

The strange thing is that so many of us were wrong - even most of those who didn't vote for Fea still didn't speak out in her favour.

Well, today will be an interesting day, and no mistake.

*****

And now the ringbearer is...worse than dead. A sad day in the village. :(

[Rikae]

Well, I'm sure the wraiths are happy now. Not only did they get to stand by (more or less - unless Legate is one) and watch Fea be lynched, and now have Legate and I as perfect scapegoats for the next lynch, but they have Frodo as well. :(

Aren't we glad Frodo didn't reveal in day one or two, now? Hmm? Well, at least I get to be right about something. By the way, I'm sorry, Fea. I guess I've seen (and demonstrated) now that even "big name" players make major blunders.

I don't think I'll try speculating about who the baddies are just yet toDay. It's past 1 am, and I'm not feeling particularly confident about my wolf-hunting abilities at the moment, anyway.
I'm also not going to make much effort to defend myself against the lynch mob that will probably come after me... I said everything I had to say about why to lynch Fea yesterDay. I still think what I said made sense, and I still can't imagine what possessed Fea to start agreeing with Nog (or what possessed Nog, for that matter).

But yeah, I'm going to bed, so don't look for me until at least 9 or 10 EST. Perhaps when I come back I'll try looking for Frodo a bit... after all, although the wraiths may have just been lucky, there's a chance something in the posts led them to him.

[Thinlómien]

Well, I'm sure the wraiths are happy now. Not only did they get to stand by (more or less - unless Legate is one) and watch Fea be lynched, and now have Legate and I as perfect scapegoats for the next lynch, but they have Frodo as well.Rikae dear, do not despair, I think I can make their Day significantly worse. ;) Okay, they might happy now because they get to kill the seer as I'm don't dare to hide any longer, but I'm sure they don't like two of them getting caught. :p

So, Brinn and Sally, my dear wraiths, I'm sorry to say, game over. And others, for heaven's sake, stop going after Mac, he's innocent (unless he's Ferny). Sadly, I cannot give you another known innocent because you killed her yesterDay. :rolleyes:

[Thinlómien]

I was thinking whether I should reveal sooner or later and decided it doesn't make much difference, but it actually would have. Blah. Well, at least now we all have more time to go through Brinn and sally's posts and see who might the third wraith be and also speculate who could have they attacked last Night... and they might give out as much info about themselves doing that as they would have done thinking they're safe, so maybe it doesn't matter that much after all... Okay, I'm going to do some rereading now, I'm going to see who could be Brinn and sally's mate and who could they have attacked last Night (but given their rather surprising kill choices, we won't necessarily be able to make much out of it).

And lastly, in case you're interested about a chronological order (maybe it explains some of my behaviour):
Night1: Fea (because I can never read her)
Night2: Brinn (I thought it would shed light on stuff)
Night3: Mac (he was baffling everybody so much that I needed to know)
Night4: sally (she looked evil and there seemed to be a connection between her and Brinn)

I must say now already that my hats off go to Brinn, undoubtedly, I had such hard time keeping her on my suspicion list because she was acting so innocent! I had to resort to the "gut-feeling" level, as you can see... :D

[Nerwen]

Lommy, I thought you might be the Seer. I'm so glad to have been right about something, after yesterDay.

And apologies to Fea... all I can say is, I honestly thought I was doing the right thing.:(

What do you make of Sally's attack on Rune yesterDay?

[A Little Green]

Hmmm. This definitely should make for an interesting Day - Fea turning out to be innocent, Frodo switching sides and Lommy revealing as seer. I'm trying to look at those three things now.

First, Fea. The easy way would be to simply accuse people like Rikae and Legate who were heavily for her lynching. However, I'm not sure whether a wraith would like to be so noisily for lynching someone they know is innocent anyway since that might cast some suspicion on them the next Day. What I think we really need to look at is the people who slip by the flow, voicing a sufficient amount of suspicion for Fea and voting according to the general consensus. I'll see to that if I have time.

Secondly, Frodo. The thing we need to remember is that Frodo is playing a different role toDay that in the first three Days, and that might give us good hints on who s/he might be. In finding Frodo, it is important to compare people's posts to what they have posted earlier.

Thirdly, Lommy. (Well, her posting at least has certainly changed from yesterDay. :D) I'm inclined to believe her claim for now, it looks honest and kind of makes sense. She'd be a very bold wraith to do that, since if Sally and Brinn were innocent she'd get caught pretty soon and if they were her fellows she'd lose two wolf buddies for the sake of gaining the village's trust (and even then we might start wondering why she doesn't die at Night). Of course there is one wolf more toDay than there has been and all that, so toDay would be the perfect chance for a seer-impersonator wraith to come out. Even then, it wouldn't make much sense for a not-at-all-suspected wraith-Lommy to do such a stunt. Of course she could be Ferny trying to provoke the real seer from hiding, but it doesn't look like a probable move. I'm inclined to believe Lommy's claim for now. I just want to turn every stone and check through every possibility, just in case.


EDIT: x-ed with Nerwen. (This is becoming a habit.)

[Thinlómien]

Lommy, I thought you might be the Seer. I'm so glad to have been right about something, after yesterDay.I figured some people would - I thought I was being pretty obvious so in fact I was surprised to find myself alive toDay. ;)

What do you make of Sally's attack on Rune yesterDay?
Well, I have thought Rune innocent pretty much all the time, I wonder if I should reconsider. After all, he and Brinn could have staged their fight on Day1... But still it maybe looks a bit unlikely. I don't know, I should check sally's attack before saying more. In any case, it is interesting how all sally, Lari and Mira attacked Rune yesterDay, I'm sure it's worth having a look at.

First, Fea. The easy way would be to simply accuse people like Rikae and Legate who were heavily for her lynching. However, I'm not sure whether a wraith would like to be so noisily for lynching someone they know is innocent anyway since that might cast some suspicion on them the next Day. What I think we really need to look at is the people who slip by the flow, voicing a sufficient amount of suspicion for Fea and voting according to the general consensus. I'll see to that if I have time.Agreed. And I would also look at those defending her - that would be an ideal position for a wraith too. But we should also maybe look at it from the angle that the wraiths too could have thought her to be Ferny, maybe...?

I just got a weird gut-feeling (err not like those *coughseerishcough* "gut-feelings" mentioned in my yesterDay's summary :D) that Legate is Frodo. Interesting. :D

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh my, well, as you can see, even the best players (meaning myself, of course) can make mistakes. But really, I was so convinced that Fea must be some Cobbler - I mean, how comes? She behaved really unbelievably sillily (in my opinion).

And now Lommy says Mac is innocent. Okay. Had she not said it, I would have tried, with all my authority (that has been severely damaged after yesterDay's lynch), to lynch him. Now that undermines my trust in my opinions in this game being right even more. But whatever. I can still do something. Maybe.

As for Lommy's claim. I believe you, because I think it fits. I was actually wondering about that yesterDay, when you voted sally - I only thought you perhaps may have dreamt of sally before, and thus were voting her. But in that case, I would be surprised if the Wolves did not target you. I am still a bit surprised. But then, perhaps they were so sure who Frodo is that they decided to get him before he can reveal? If that is the case, they must be better than we are - for at least when it comes to myself, I have no idea who that might be.

Okay, while one may be worried whether Lommy is not an impersonator after all, I am going to give it a shot, not get too overcomplicated and just believe her. There is nothing better for me to do now. And even if you are impersonator, Lommy, it will be known after toDay, if we lynch let's say sally. Let's also hope a Ranger may protect you this Night and thus, you get another dream.

I just got a weird gut-feeling (err not like those *coughseerishcough* "gut-feelings" mentioned in my yesterDay's summary :D) that Legate is Frodo. Interesting. :D

But I can assure you I am not.

[Thinlómien]

ToDay I will not vote for:
Legate (got lynched early last game he was in)
Rikae (I think it's been a while since she's played)
Nogrod (I helped get him lynched last game and I don't think he'll ever forgive me if I vote for him on Day 1 again )
Beregond (newbie)
Mirandir (newbie)
Meneltarmacil (I'm tired of seeing him always die so early in the game)
Durelin (I don't recall her playing for awhile)It would be so easy for her to slip a fellow in here... you know, my ww experience tells me there's probably a fellow of hers here, but on the other hand, it would be actually smarter of her not to put any fellows there... so I should just ignore this list even though it kind of haunts me. :rolleyes:

I think Rune and Brinn's fight looks a bit too ugly for a staged wolf-on-wolf. (Or is it actually so ugly it can't be real? Hmmm...)

Oh well. Nogrod, Aganzir, and Brinniel all seem to be making sense to me thus far and I'm not voting for them.Hmmm I'd actually have another look at Menel, possibly.

At the risk of reminding everyone of the infamous Legate-wagon from the last game:
Brinn's worrying me a bit, too. It's not the defensiveness; innocents can be very defensive, sometimes more than wolves (call it righteous indignation, I guess) - it's the fact that she's encouraging Frodo to play in such a way as to make a more useful addition to the wraith team.Joining the chorus of Brinn-suspectors with new evidence at this point makes her look really innocent.

Lari forgot Brinn from a list of hers which points to her being an innocent or an extra sneaky wolf. It makes me feel better about her.

On another note, perhaps we should just lynch Sally. Every time I read one of her posts, I get stuck in this loop of "She looks so evil! But she's just being Sally! But she looks SOOO evil! But she always looks evil!" - very distracting, at least.Would a wolf-Rikae say this about a wolf-sally? I don't think it would even occur to her, probably...

Gandhi and Mira worry me a little. I would not be surprised to have one newbie wolf in this game. But actually Gandhi looks better because he was not sure that Rikae was unserious, if he was a wolf, he'd have known she's joking because he'd have known Mac's not a wolf.

Rune: Of course I don't like how he's attacked me, but he's always had this negative attitude towards me and while yesterDay it was more intense than I ever recall it being, I don't think it necessarily points to guilt. If anything, it's more likely innocent behaviour, but then again I've never seen Rune play a wolf so I honestly don't know how he would behave as one.I think this more or less exonerates Rune - I don't see the point in a wolf-on-wolf fight that ends so easily and is not about suspicion but about being offended of each other's comments.

The List:
Suspicious
Sally
Fea
Greenie
Watching
Legate
Nerwen
Aganzir
No Clue
Lari
Mira
Rikae
Beregond
Mac
Menel
Innocent
Lommy
Nogrod
DurelinThis makes me feel better about Greenie. I don't think it's probable Brinn would put both her fellows to the same - and most suspicious! - category so early in the game (Day2).

I wonder if an Aganwolf would go on and do an exonerating analysis of Brinnwolf...?

If someone's a wolf in the Dury-wagon, I think it's Mira.

I have an idea or two about Frodo's identity, but I'm not sharing them, at least not now.


edit: xed with Legate

[Nerwen]

I figured some people would - I thought I was being pretty obvious so in fact I was surprised to find myself alive toDay. ;)

Well, possibly the wraiths thought they had such a good line to Frodo that it was worth ignoring you– or, for that matter, they could have wrongly thought they'd found the Seer, though I don't know who would have looked more Seerish than you at that point. Or we might have some evil politics going on, like in Fea's game.

Well, I have thought Rune innocent pretty much all the time, I wonder if I should reconsider. After all, he and Brinn could have staged their fight on Day1...

Well, it's a common enough tactic, and had the effect of making Brinn look like an injured innocent... but it didn't feel staged to me. And yet Sally's attack on him ought to mean something.

And I would also look at those defending her - that would be an ideal position for a wraith too. But we should also maybe look at it from the angle that the wraiths too could have thought her to be Ferny, maybe...?

It wouldn't surprise me; she certainly looked like Ferny. I'm not sure what difference that would make, though, except that maybe they'd be less willing to stick their necks out (wraiths have necks, right?)

I just got a weird gut-feeling (err not like those *coughseerishcough* "gut-feelings" mentioned in my yesterDay's summary :D) that Legate is Frodo. Interesting. :D

Regarding Frodo– Brinn spent Day One going on and on and on about Frodo and what his motivations might be and what Frodo could do if he wanted to help the wraiths out *wink**wink*...etc.

I wonder if it's worth noting what her advice actually was and seeing if anyone appears to have followed it. It might take too long, though.

EDIT: X'd with Legate and Lommy.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Well, I'm sure the wraiths are happy now. Not only did they get to stand by (more or less - unless Legate is one) and watch Fea be lynched, and now have Legate and I as perfect scapegoats for the next lynch, but they have Frodo as well. :(

I assume that you knew the risks by attacking a person so agressivly as did. . .

Personaly I don't think it makes Legate look as the obvious scapegoat, he was more after Mac than Fea, but of course we have just learned that Mac is innocent.

Anyways I won't be around much today, it is my mothers birthday so I will be gone most of the day and I cannot stay up all night until deadline because I have to take care of my brother tomorrow.(he is sick)

I will make a post of more substans before I leave.

[Nerwen]

In answer to my own question: no, all Brinniel does is say that a would-be wraith Frodo would do best to play the part of a loyal but inconspicuous villager– basically to fly under the radar. And we don't know if Frodo took her advice anyway.

[Aganzir]

Grr Brinn I will never ever trust you again no matter how innocent you look!

I'm happy Mac is revealed innocent because it makes my life a lot easier. Or actually it doesn't because I just came up with an uncomfortable scenario. But at least he isn't a wraith.

Greenie's assuring she believes Lommy's claim for now looks a bit weird. I don't know, it's just the way she systematically brings up things; Lommy would be a bold wolf to do that, but then again... Today would be the perfect time to impersonate the seer, but then again... She could be Ferny, but then again... And in the end she kind of apologies for trying to make us feel worse about Lom.
I'm inclined to believe Lommy's claim for now. I just want to turn every stone and check through every possibility, just in case.

Well, possibly the wraiths thought they had such a good line to Frodo that it was worth ignoring you
That wouldn't make sense. I think it'd be more important to kill the seer first and concentrate on finding Frodo only afterwards. Either the wolves didn't figure she was the seer or had a reason to leave her alive, which seems unlikely given that she was suspecting at least two of them.

I'll make the case against Mira again at some point. Not right now because I don't have enough time, but during this day.
I'd also like to have a look at Lari.

As for yesterday...

While it's true Fea's innocence looks bad for Rikae and Legate, also Fea looked quite evil, so for now I'm not going to hold it against them.

If you can't come up with a valid justification for a vote, then don't make one.
And if you don't vote for two days in a row, you get modkilled. I think a random vote is better than to risk getting killed the following day if something happens that keeps you from voting.

Argh I should probably just go take a nap or I'll be totally useless also later.
The good thing is, though, that today was my last schoolday (now there are only some exams left, the most important of which are not even close yet). This means I'll be much less stressed and might actually have time to play properly.

Now I want to have a quick look at the previous days' voting.

[Macalaure]

12 votes in 3 days and yet alive - and now I will probably be wraith-killed soon. What an end. :rolleyes:

And I was so looking forward to feuding with Legate toDay. :p

When I read that Frodo was turned I was going to do the "told ya" thing about the importance of lynching a wraith early. Now that we do have two of them, it looks a lot better. We also have two Days to contemplate who the third original wraith is, and by the end of that time span, Fraitho has probably done something to incriminate himself.

Wait... the wraiths probably went after somebody who looked seerish. Maybe we can find a lead to Frodo by looking at who looked seerish yesterDay. Then again, with Brinn and Sally high on her list with little reason, who looked more seerish than our actual seer? Well, we'll see.

As a quasi-known innocent I should try to give a lot of input toDay. I'll be away for some time and I'm still sick, but I'll give my best.

[Rikae]

This is good news! Nice work, Lommy, and I think you did the right thing (sure, revealing after Brinn and Sally had a chance to talk a little would have been slightly better, but they've already done quite a bit of talking while thinking they were safe).
I thought the wraiths would have used the Durelin-wagon to their advantage, and so they did.
I hope Brinn's edgy posts of Day 1 were genuine, and not a wraithish plot, since that would be quite un-sporting. (I've been accused of that type of play, but I never actually did it. Wolves have feelings, too!)

I think Rune and Brinn's fight looks a bit too ugly for a staged wolf-on-wolf. (Or is it actually so ugly it can't be real? Hmmm...)
The latter possibility reminds me of the time Legate's attempt to distance himself from me as a fellow wolf led innocent Mac to send a PM scolding Legate for being mean to me. :D

Hm, well, one thing I just want to point out at the moment is that, although he's obviously no lynch target for the next couple Days, we shouldn't discount the possibility that Mac is indeed Ferny. I know I said he wasn't, but that was largely based on his failure to pick up my hints that I was a wraith who had been given his name. But on second thought, Mac doesn't tend to be one to look very hard for hints. Fact is, he did engage in Fernyish behavior and is worth keeping an eye on.

Both of us have to go run some errands this morning, so we won't be around for a while (plus, my semester's started, so I won't be participating as much as before from now on, anyway. Guess I'll lose the highest-post-count, then. Oh well.)

EDIT: X'd with Mac.

[Rikae]

I just remembered something else I wanted to say about Mac - the reason I think he's worth mentioning at all: he hasn't behaved like an ordo. He's been far more careful than he is as one (and yes, I think he's careful in spite of the celebrated "slips", which were more like hints. That politeness Legate mentioned, I guess.)

[Rikae]

Greenie's assuring she believes Lommy's claim for now looks a bit weird. I don't know, it's just the way she systematically brings up things; Lommy would be a bold wolf to do that, but then again... Today would be the perfect time to impersonate the seer, but then again... She could be Ferny, but then again... And in the end she kind of apologies for trying to make us feel worse about Lom

That post looked a bit fishy to me, too. Although Greenie as an earlier wolf companion to Sally and Brinn doesn't seem really likely, could she be Frodo?

That reminds me - I thought Agan Frodoish early on. Better take another look.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

That wouldn't make sense. I think it'd be more important to kill the seer first and concentrate on finding Frodo only afterwards. Either the wolves didn't figure she was the seer or had a reason to leave her alive, which seems unlikely given that she was suspecting at least two of them.
That's what I thought as well. The thing that makes sense to me besides what you said is only that they would have spotted Frodo, been very certain of him, and decided to kill (wraithise) him before he can reveal to the village.

12 votes in 3 days and yet alive - and now I will probably be wraith-killed soon. What an end. :rolleyes:
Mac, you are still looking horribly sinister to me, had I not had the word that you are innocent, believe me, I would have suggested lynching you again. You are behaving horribly fishi-ly. However, after yesterDay, I am not that worried about it, as my suspicions seem to mislead me in this game completely :rolleyes:

EDIT: x-ed with all Rikaes

[Rikae]

Oh, jeez. I shouldn't have said what I did above. Now I've gone and messed up our chances of the wraiths making a mistake. Rikae = doof. :rolleyes:

[Aganzir]

That post looked a bit fishy to me, too. Although Greenie as an earlier wolf companion to Sally and Brinn doesn't seem really likely, could she be Frodo?
Yeah that's what occurred to me as well.

Anyway I've been looking at the voting but don't really know what I'm trying to achieve, apart from looking at the first day bandwagon where Brinn could have been lynched. I'm not nearly done yet but I have to leave now. So much for napping.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I hope Brinn's edgy posts of Day 1 were genuine, and not a wraithish plot, since that would be quite un-sporting. (I've been accused of that type of play, but I never actually did it. Wolves have feelings, too!)
I hope so too.

The latter possibility reminds me of the time Legate's attempt to distance himself from me as a fellow wolf led innocent Mac to send a PM scolding Legate for being mean to me. :D
Oh, that was cute. Good old times... :)

Hm, well, one thing I just want to point out at the moment is that, although he's obviously no lynch target for the next couple Days, we shouldn't discount the possibility that Mac is indeed Ferny. I know I said he wasn't, but that was largely based on his failure to pick up my hints that I was a wraith who had been given his name. But on second thought, Mac doesn't tend to be one to look very hard for hints. Fact is, he did engage in Fernyish behavior and is worth keeping an eye on.
I just remembered something else I wanted to say about Mac - the reason I think he's worth mentioning at all: he hasn't behaved like an ordo. He's been far more careful than he is as one (and yes, I think he's careful in spite of the celebrated "slips", which were more like hints. That politeness Legate mentioned, I guess.)

Hmm, now that I think of it, a MacFerny (Scottish) is not as impossible (although, like I said, I am not trusting myself anymore). But, in either case, we should be careful, as when Fea wasn't, somebody is still Ferny - somebody around here, and for certain, somebody far more careful than an average Cobbler (although perhaps he was just lucky that there was Fea around to steal his or her fame :rolleyes: At least in some people's eyes).

EDIT: x-ed since my last post

[Rikae]

Bah, well, as long as I'm talking about it anyway... jeez, he could have ignored my hints because he *didn't* send his own name to the wraiths after all. In fact, I can think of a reason why he wouldn't... oh, I'm so stupid... *headdesk*

[Brinniel]

I'm sorry Ms. Ferny, but I'm afraid your act is over. It was a clever move and I applaud you that, but I'm sure you didn't count on one of your so called "dreams" to be the seer.

Don't believe Lommy for a second. She is smart and deceptive. And she probably wanted to take the heat off some possible wraiths or draw out the real seer (which she has in fact done). Unfortunately for her and fortunately for us, Sally actually is a wraith. I dreamt of her last Night. I'm sure Lommy wasn't expecting that.

Night 1: Lommy
Night 2: Nogrod
Night 3: Rune
Night 4: Sally

I dreamt of Lommy as an ordo, which is why she cannot be a wraith. She is the informer, and a sneaky one at that.

If you don't believe me, I recommend you check my posts and you'll see that I am telling the truth. Also, if I actually were a wraith, do you really think I would dare to leave Lommy alive? After Fea's game, no. I admit I make mistakes, but I would never make the same mistake twice. :rolleyes:

Anyway, it would be a waste of time to lynch the cobbler. Especially when we have a known wraith in our grasp. Frodo may have been turned, but at least we are one wraith down.

++Sally

I'd love to be of more help, but I'm afraid I cannot be here much until around 7ish pm EST as I have classes most of the day.

[satansaloser2005]

*sigh*

Alas, had the seer dreamt of me a different Night she may have found my intentions quite different. :(

Re: Rune.
YesterDay I legitimitely thought he could be evil, cobbler perhaps if not something else, but obviously toDay it would be unfair to comment on such matters.



In other news I have to head to class.

In even other news the duck tells me to say this: "By Elbereth and Luthien the Fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!"

Back around lunchtime. (Heh, I made a typo and accidentally said 'lynchtime' at first.)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, now that is at least getting interesting.

But unless we have some real master-plot involved, things are clear. We got a WW and a Ringbearer, now we need two more Wolves.

That Sally would be the RB makes lot of sense - the difference in her posting, not being so vocal as usually, etc.

Brinn's defense against being revealed as a WW is a very feeble one. That's the only reason why I could see it being a trick (and Lommy, Brinn and Sally being all wolves, for example. But that won't make sense as they would all reveal and make themselves dead for nothing. Therefore, Lommy's claim is proven as truthful for me).

Now, I wonder who are the two other ones. We should not give ourselves to easy sleep and try to work on finding them, as if our lives depended on it. (Well, they do, actually.)

[Meneltarmacil]

A sneaky one you are, Lommy. And Brinn, I always figured you were on our side.

Well, Sally is evil, we can all agree on that. And by tomorrow we'll know another person's role. I'd suggest looking at Mac during the next Night phase, but that's just me.

In the meantime, these are our possible wraiths:
Lariren Shadow
Mirandir
Legate of Amon Lanc
Rikae
Aganzir
Beregond
Nerwen
Macalaure
A Little Green

For now, though...

++Sally

[Rikae]

If you don't believe me, I recommend you check my posts and you'll see that I am telling the truth.

I don't believe you, and I'm pressed for time. Care to point out exactly what, in your posts, I should look for? A seer hint?

Incidentally, look at the first letters of the sentences in my first and second posts of Day 1. Obviously, I am not the seer, and not Frodo (why would I reveal now)? I'm just somebody who wanted some backup plans to avoid lynching if necessary.

Anyone can leave hints.
:p

[Rikae]

Oh yeah, and:

++Sally

[Rikae]

Sorry, not my first and second posts of Day one, but my first and this one (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=582475&postcount=152).

[Nerwen]

Brinniel, I do not have time to look through all your posts, so can you please be more specific? As it is, I am much more inclined to believe Lommy than you.

Assuming Brinniel is indeed lying– I think it might be worth having a look at Greenie.

Anyway–

++Sally

Oh, and Rikae? You're just pure evil.:cool:

[Beregond]

Incidentally, look at the first letters of the sentences in my first and second posts of Day 1. Obviously, I am not the seer, and not Frodo (why would I reveal now)? I'm just somebody who wanted some backup plans to avoid lynching if necessary.

Very subtle! Nicely done. I at one point thought you might be Frodo, though I forget why (maybe it was your subliminal message) - then you said you were Frodo, and I mostly abandoned the theory.


Well, at least today's vote is clear, barring some master-plot as Legate said. I haven't decided which of our seers is the impostor, but the real one may be a victim tomorrow, unless the wraiths keep her alive for confusion's sake. Not that we sit on our hands, mind, but for now I'm going to vote early for voting early's sake.

++Sally

[Beregond]

Nogrod is a strange choice. He didn't make any indications hinting towards seerism that I can find, and after the Durelin fiasco he could've easily been made a lynch target. The best conclusion I can come up with is perhaps the wraiths thought he might be Frodo and didn't want to risk losing their Ringbearer through a lynching.

The Durelin lynching came out of nowhere and needs to be closely looked at. I feel convinced Fea is evil in some form, whether it be a wraith or informer. Her behaviour simply does not look like that of an innocent. There's chance another baddie was involved with the Durelin lynch which is why I want to look at her voters later. One thing I wonder is why were people so concerned over the possibility of a last-minute Fea lynch, yet they thought it was such a better idea to go after Dury in the final moments? Also, what was so suspicious about her IC-posts?

Of course we can't ignore the early voters (or the non-voters) either, as I'm sure there's at least one wraith among them. Really what I need to do is take a closer look at everyone, as I'm sure someone is slipping under my radar. But that'll have to wait until tomorrow as it is extremely late and I must sleep.

This must be one of those clues Brinn indicates she left.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Sorry. . .I did not post as promised. I my self have a cold and simply fell a sleep on my sofa, now I have to go. I will vote tonight, but unless I get better I will not contribute with much more than that.

btw, I have no idea who is telling the truth. . .Lommy or Brinn, I did not understand why Legate found Brinn's defence so weak.

[Aganzir]

Brinn's way of revealing looks more honest compared to Lommy (when a baddie tries to impersonate a gifted, there's often a certain by-the-way attitude, which I think Lommy had in her post. Garr I can't explain it better, it's just that it takes you a while to realise there's a gifted revealing. Okay that was a bad way of saying it, it's hard to explain), but I trust Lommy more. She being the seer makes much more sense.

Kitanna, if the seer dreamed of Frodo last night, was she told it was Frodo the Wraith or just a Wraith?

Because I just can't see why sally would reveal her exact role when she had a chance to confuse us and make us waste time by going to look for people whose behaviour has changed. Unless she still remembers her happy days as an ordinary Breelander and feels pity for us in spite of the Morgul blade that pierced her heart... :p Or then she's double-bluffing.

Berry, why do you think that post is a clue? I see it quite another way - Brinn says she's convinced that Fea (who she never dreamed of) is evil.

I'll go through the voting properly once we know for certain who's lying because I don't feel like taking a risk of just speculating on the wrong things when I've been so insubstantial thus far. Instead I'll make that Mira case now.

[Beregond]

Berry, why do you think that post is a clue? I see it quite another way - Brinn says she's convinced that Fea (who she never dreamed of) is evil.

I shouldn't have quoted the whole post - I meant only the last part:

"Of course we can't ignore the early voters (or the non-voters) either, as I'm sure there's at least one wraith among them. Really what I need to do is take a closer look at everyone, as I'm sure someone is slipping under my radar. But that'll have to wait until tomorrow as it is extremely late and I must sleep."

Which could have been a hint, or...not.

[Aganzir]

If she had dreamed of an early voter or a non-voter and found xem a wolf, she would have been more specific. If she wasn't specific, it isn't a hint.

However it's good that you quoted the whole post because there was quickly to be found at least one thing that makes me more positive she's lying. Although I remember Lommy wavering about the dreamed-of Fea too... But it was different.

[Beregond]

Actually I just meant the part about "taking a closer look at everyone" having to wait till "tomorrow" after "sleep".

Which is probably my overactive imagination. Or a hint left with good, or bad, intentions.

I don't know who to believe, really. :(

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

btw, I have no idea who is telling the truth. . .Lommy or Brinn, I did not understand why Legate found Brinn's defence so weak.
Simply. It would be quite lucky (read: really improbable thing to happen) for Lommy to come up as a Seer, and by chance pick the real Seer among her suspects. But on the other hand, what could have poor Brinnwolf done when the real Seer Lommy came out with revealing her? She could have either said "I am innocent, please real Seer, come out", or simply give it a shot herself. Which is very weak, but seems like Brinn decided to do that.

Because I just can't see why sally would reveal her exact role when she had a chance to confuse us and make us waste time by going to look for people whose behaviour has changed. Unless she still remembers her happy days as an ordinary Breelander and feels pity for us in spite of the Morgul blade that pierced her heart... :p Or then she's double-bluffing.
I thought about that too, at first. But then, after re-reading Sally's post, I ruled that out. It would have been helpful for the Wolves to lure the village into confusion on whether one of the Wolves who remain is a Wolf from the beginning or Frodo, but Sally gave it out, and I believe it was an innocent slip. Most of all, because I believe she was not able to communicate with the Wolves yet: I presume at Night, everybody sent their picks, and the Mod needed to get the PM from Wolves, then wait also for the PM from the Ranger (if perchance he did not save the target), and only then send PM to Frodo that he was turned. It would make sense that Sally could not PM with the Wolves at all, therefore she saw her newly formed Wraith-star rise and fall. Most lucky, otherwise it might have helped the general confusion.

Note also that it is interesting that Brinn names Sally also being dreamt of only on the fourth night. That calls for attention. Of course the Wolves were aware that Sally was turned just on the last night: therefore, had the false Seer said that she dreamed of Sally let's say on Night 3, it won't make sense. I take both the Seer's lists - whichever of them would be the right one - also as another proof that Sally is Frodo.

"Of course we can't ignore the early voters (or the non-voters) either, as I'm sure there's at least one wraith among them. Really what I need to do is take a closer look at everyone, as I'm sure someone is slipping under my radar. But that'll have to wait until tomorrow as it is extremely late and I must sleep."

Which could have been a hint, or...not.

I don't think that's much of a hint. Or at least I would not have taken it as one. But Brinn will surely tell us if she wants to, what she meant by hints.

EDIT: x-ed with Agan and Bere

[Brinniel]

(So, my dance class lasted only a half hour because our pianist never showed due to the blizzard. Unfortunately, it meant me walking a half hour in the snow just to take a half hour class, not to mention my boots aren't waterproof. On the positive side, it means I have a bit more time to post.)

I don't believe you, and I'm pressed for time. Care to point out exactly what, in your posts, I should look for? A seer hint?
Any particular reason why you don't believe me? What makes Lommy's reveal so much more believable? (I ask not just Rikae this.) As for hints, no I didn't leave a secret message inside my posts; I found it'd be too obvious and like you said, anyone can leave a hint. But if you look through my posts, you will see my word follows through and I have consistently defended those who I knew to be innocent. Lommy has no more evidence than I do. She may be clever, but don't let her fool you. This village has already been misled enough, and I would hate to see happen again.

Brinn's way of revealing looks more honest compared to Lommy (when a baddie tries to impersonate a gifted, there's often a certain by-the-way attitude, which I think Lommy had in her post. Garr I can't explain it better, it's just that it takes you a while to realise there's a gifted revealing. Okay that was a bad way of saying it, it's hard to explain), but I trust Lommy more. She being the seer makes much more sense.
Yes, you didn't explain it well because that makes no sense to me. You find me more honest, but would rather trust Lommy?

I see it quite another way - Brinn says she's convinced that Fea (who she never dreamed of) is evil.
Yes, I was convinced Fea was evil; her behaviour seemed so suspicious I couldn't see how she possibly could be innocent. I didn't dream of her because I thought it likely she was the cobbler, and she'd only turn up as an ordo. Obviously I was very wrong.

[Kitanna]

Kitanna, if the seer dreamed of Frodo last night, was she told it was Frodo the Wraith or just a Wraith?

Ringbearer would be how the dream came out.

[Aganzir]

I believe Brinn spoke about tomorrow and sleep in RL, which I wouldn't regard as hints. Also, I don't think Brinn is the kind of player who would leave hints along the lines "Look! I am the seer!" instead of only hints to players she had dreamed of.

It would make sense that Sally could not PM with the Wolves at all, therefore she saw her newly formed Wraith-star rise and fall. Most lucky, otherwise it might have helped the general confusion.
Oh yes that makes sense. I just somehow automatically assumed she'd be on the evil side also in spirit from the moment she was turned and would do everything she could to mislead us before her death.

edit: xed with Brinn & Kitanna. Okay thanks. So sally is apparently not the Ringbearer then...?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Ringbearer would be how the dream came out.

However this is interesting. Do you realise what it means? Kitanna, does it mean then - if I may ask just for clarification - that even if Ringbearer was turned the very night, the Seer would see him as Ringbearer and not Wraith???

[Aganzir]

Yes, you didn't explain it well because that makes no sense to me. You find me more honest, but would rather trust Lommy?
No I was talking merely about the ways you two revealed. In general I trust Lommy more than you because I find it rather easier to see you as a baddie than her.
Plus, I doubt a baddie who is practically not at all suspected would pretend to be the seer. Yeah to draw out the real seer, but I doubt it. And to be honest, I'm not sure Lommy would do it even if she was the cobbler. It just doesn't seem like something she would do without any provocation. :p

edit: xed with Legate. What difference would it make? The seer would know in the morning anyway that Frodo was a wraith.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Any particular reason why you don't believe me? What makes Lommy's reveal so much more believable? (I ask not just Rikae this.)
Just like I said above, my answer would be:

Simply. It would be quite lucky (read: really improbable thing to happen) for Lommy to come up as a Seer, and by chance pick the real Seer among her suspects. But on the other hand, what could have poor Brinnwolf done when the real Seer Lommy came out with revealing her? She could have either said "I am innocent, please real Seer, come out", or simply give it a shot herself. Which is very weak, but seems like Brinn decided to do that.

[Brinniel]

It would be quite lucky (read: really improbable thing to happen) for Lommy to come up as a Seer, and by chance pick the real Seer among her suspects.
Improbable perhaps, but certainly not impossible. When Lommy revealed, she knew that someone would counter-reveal. If I looked remotely seerish to her, why not say she dreamt me as a wraith? It would be a smart thing to do actually; her reveal would look more believable and I would be easier to lynch.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

edit: xed with Legate. What difference would it make? The seer would know in the morning anyway that Frodo was a wraith.

It makes a difference. If it is so, it makes it clear that Sally is not Frodo by any means. Because neither of our Seers mentioned Sally as being a RB - they both said she is a Wraith.

So it seems (if it indeed was so) that Sally tried to confuse us by making us think she was Frodo. Where she wasn't. (So once again, I may take back what I said above :rolleyes: I am really brilliant in this game, seemingly.)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Improbable perhaps, but certainly not impossible. When Lommy revealed, she knew that someone would counter-reveal. If I looked remotely seerish to her, why not say she dreamt me as a wraith? It would be a smart thing to do actually; her reveal would look more believable and I would be easier to lynch.

That would be possible, but it looks far more complicated than the simple version that you decided to go with retaliation. After Lommy's revelation, there was not much choice for you, if you are a Wolf.

[Aganzir]

It makes a difference. If it is so, it makes it clear that Sally is not Frodo by any means. Because neither of our Seers mentioned Sally as being a RB - they both said she is a Wraith.
Oh yes. I just didn't realise you were talking about sally & our seers and not the RB role in general. :rolleyes:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Yep. Okay, whatever.

We vote

++Sally

aka the Wraith from the beginning,

whereas we may take a look at her posting and try to find out if there are "friends" of hers to be found based on the interaction.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh, and another reason why I don't believe Brinn. Not only she is so lucky that she happens to be a Seer when Lommy just called her a Wraith, but also she was soo lucky again to dream of Lommy on first Night! To dream of the Wraith who just called her a Seer. Lucky indeed, eh? This is so rusty.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh, and another reason why I don't believe Brinn. Not only she is so lucky that she happens to be a Seer when Lommy just called her a Wraith, but also she was soo lucky again to dream of Lommy on first Night! To dream of the Wraith who just called her a Seer. Lucky indeed, eh? This is so rusty.

Oh sorry. I take it back. Brinn actually said she dreamt of her as an Ordo, thereby coming to the conclusion that she is Ferny. Oh my, what's wrong with me?!? Really. Somebody else than just me should post, or I will only make a mess again.

(However, still it is lucky for Brinn to dream of Lommy. So many random chances? Does that even happen?)

[Aganzir]

Legate, for one time in your life you're funny. :p

I always find it rather a coincidence that there are two seers. Some day when I'm a wolf I want to try revealing before the real seer and see which one is believed. It would also be funny to mod a game with two of each gifted and no one knowing about it.

[Brinniel]

So it seems (if it indeed was so) that Sally tried to confuse us by making us think she was Frodo.
Of course she's trying to confuse us. She's a wraith who's just been exposed. My best advice is to not listen to anything she has to say.

Oh, and another reason why I don't believe Brinn. Not only she is so lucky that she happens to be a Seer when Lommy just called her a Wraith, but also she was soo lucky again to dream of Lommy on first Night! To dream of the Wraith who just called her a Seer. Lucky indeed, eh? This is so rusty.
This is hardly a valid argument. First, I never called her a wraith. Secondly, why not dream of Lommy? Is she that unusual for a seer pick? Anyways if I were a wraith, wouldn't I have chosen to make my life much easier by claiming I hadn't dreamt of her and she could either be a cobbler or wraith? I'm not choosing to make my claim look more doubtful. I dreamt of Lommy because in last several games we've played, she's managed to deceive me. Lommy is some who has a tendency to look innocentish and I wanted to be sure she wasn't a wraith.

EDIT: Okay, I see your correction. Fair enough, as we all make mistakes. But I still hold to the second half of my argument.

Gotta go to class now..

[Beregond]

I'm not feeling very confident, myself. I'm going to flog my "math skills" to make myself feel better. ;)

While I'm not trying to defend Brinn, lets remember that likelihood isn't everything. If Lommy made up her seer list, and picked one villager for each of four nights, then in simple terms the chances of her picking the seer is 4 out of 19 - a 21% chance. Not bad, really. The chances of Brinn picking Lommy on day one, obviously, are higher.

Lommy revealed first, leaving Brinn with few choices than to do something to confuse us all and make us think twice about who is really the seer. She's done that quite well, and her seer list seems to jive with what she's said in the game previously. As does Lommy's, I think.

[Aganzir]

First, I don't know how much weight I should put on this all since despite watching over Fea & Lari's shoulders, this is still Mira's first game.

On day 1 she mostly bantered with others. She was always rather quick to defend Fea & Lari, but it's maybe understandable.

Okay this is a minor thing but she said Looks can be deceiving, Berry suggested she's a wolf because she doesn't look like one, and she said he caught her. I don't know if a newbie wolf would do that.

Or he could have made that "slip" unintentionally and is trying to lure you off the pace of the real wraiths. Just an idea.
Sorry I'm slow but what did you mean with this?

Then there this which tripped my radar:
Not to further the idea that Lari and I are aligned, but I have a tendency to play devil's advocate. You'll notice that I also came to Mac's defense earlier in the Day. No need to lynch without looking at all sides of the issue.
The beginning makes me a bit uneasy because it kind of screams "We are aligned! Close your eyes and don't see it!" but on the other hand I find it quite unlikely that those two are wolves together, because, well, two rather new wolves just doesn't sound very probable.
However it was the ending that I really didn't like because it reminds me of the way Lari reacted to Boro's accusations in last game. I thought about mentioning it in that game, didn't do it and had to regret it when the wolves won. That comment is jumpy the same way. No one is lynching you yet for defending other players.

She voted for Lommy, whose flip-flopping had been bothering her for the past few pages. Her vote post is close to the end of Page 5. Lommy's last post is close to the end of Page 3. The first lines of that post were Continuing my flip-flopping on this topic...
Why vote someone because of something she has admitted herself? Well yeah of course she could be trying to look good by admitting the weird things she does, but Lommy is famous for her flip-flopping (okay this is not something I automatically expect you to know). But the vote is a bit forced-looking still, especially as she hadn't talked about Lommy at all earlier.
When Mira voted, it became Brinn-3, Mac-2, Lommy-2, Gollum-2, Lari&me-1. If she and Brinn are wolves together, why didn't she vote for Mac to slighten the chance Brinn was lynched? If Lommy is a lying Ferny (which I'm not inclined to believe but include here for the sake of coherency), Mirawolf couldn't probably have known about it yet so it means nothing.

Although I agree with Mira that the Gollum bandwagon was odd, I think her reaction to it
Wow because all this vote changing doesn't look suspicious AT ALL. Seriously, I left for what, 15 minutes and everyone loses their sense of logic.
is a bit exaggerated. If she's a wolf, she knew Gollum was innocent and could make herself look a bit better by saying that.

Then day 2... She didn't have much time to be online and made a summary post about an hour before deadline.
Something in Brinn's posting style rubbed her the wrong day but she couldn't put her finger on it and didn't want to vote for her as of yet.
She didn't seem to have an opinion on Lommy, apart from saying could be innocent or could be alluding to a more devious role, but I'm not sure if she's talking about her or Rikae, as she quoted a post where Lomz talked about Rikae.
Of sally she said she hadn't been around much that day.
As for her other suspects, she was very suspicious of Rikae's roleplay. According to her, Rikae's seer post was most likely a joke but still warrants suspicion. Why? She also suggested Mac could be a baddie but it wasn't wholly serious, I think.

*pauses to eat a Fair Trade banana and wants to share this information with you because bananas are good*

Mira also asked why there had been no talk about who the ranger might be although every other role had been discussed. Well there had been a reason to talk about the other roles, but usually it's better if we don't share our speculations on them because it's always possible the wolves haven't realised those things yet.
I could see that as a newbie-wolfish seemingly innocent inquiry.

She was quite quick to agree with Fea when she accused Dury. Fea was innocent but that doesn't change the fact that Durelin was an easy lynch with, erm, not so good reasons.
The only thing Mira had said about Dury in her analysis was that she hadn't posted much that day. Now all of a sudden she was mighty suspicious. Okay, granted, she posted IC under an hour before deadline only after Mira's post, but Mira accused her for her first ranger post.
She ended up voting Dury. I find her vote fishy. Her explanation was that she posted IC 40 minutes before deadline which was a strange move and makes her very suspicious. This was the first time she mentioned Dury's IC posting, which others had mentioned earlier, though. It's just such an easy vote that it bothers me. She xed with two other Dury votes, though, so she probably thought hers to be the second instead of fourth vote for Dur.

Mira was suspicious of Rune because of the way he treated Fea. I think her reasons were pretty much dependent on Fea's guilt, of which people were rather sure yesterday.
She voted for Rune after an argument between them. Today she hasn't been around yet.

The conclusion I reached yesterday was that she was more suspicious than today, but back then there were some Fea comments that looked like they could have been said by a fellow or someone who knows Fea is evil. I don't think I have added most of them here as they didn't seem relevant anymore.

I don't really know. There are several things that make me suspicious of her, but on the other hand, the overall tone of her posts doesn't look very wolfish. Also, she's new, which probably explains her occasional going with the flow.

I'm not suspicious enough to vote for her, at least for now, but I'll keep an eye on her.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate, for one time in your life you're funny. :p
Thank you :) But I hope that I won't play in that game of yours where you put in two Seers or such...

Anyways if I were a wraith, wouldn't I have chosen to make my life much easier by claiming I hadn't dreamt of her and she could either be a cobbler or wraith? I'm not choosing to make my claim look more doubtful. I dreamt of Lommy because in last several games we've played, she's managed to deceive me. Lommy is some who has a tendency to look innocentish and I wanted to be sure she wasn't a wraith.
I am not saying you could not have picked Lommy, but if you are a Seer, it is lucky you picked her, when it was her who revealed you as a Wolf, while you were in fact the Seer.

Most of all, however, you had to say something now to react to Lommy. You could have said you haven't dreamt of her, but that won't be of that much help: in either case, it will still be clear that one of you must be lying. And in that scenario, if Lommy were lying, she would have been either a Wraith or a Cobbler, again, and it would be between the two of you, who are we going to believe. One reason I can think of why you named Lommy was that maybe you haven't even given it thought into that depth and had to react. The other reason, more probable as it would be more clever, which I would expect from you more, could be that this way, you minimized "losses": you already had to name some people on your list to "fill in" - okay, you could have afforded to name one dead innocent, more would be probably a problem. Rune could be either a fellow Wolf or an innocent you are trying to get to your side and making it seem logical (you and Rune had a row, it would make sense if you tried to dream of him later). Sally was done for, you decided to buy yourself another day, hoping that by burying Sally, you get one day and who knows what may happen - toMorrow, it will still be between you and Lommy, if she is alive. Now you had to fill in some last person into your list, which meant either writing another Wolf there, or an Innocent. Both is in its way uncomfortable. Writing a generally known person - Lommy (who is either a Seer or now, by your claim, Ferny) - you would minimize losses.
But that's just my calculation on how it might be. You must know, and this is what I think, if you ask me. And it does not problematise not trusting you for me.

[Aganzir]

I'm feeling quite good about Legate right now. Of the others I don't know yet.

I'm going to go and finish my Paper Telephone pic now. A friend of mine said it's a caricature of a 50-year-old Rune. The same friend was a few days ago also convinced Lommy, Rune and Brinn are the wolves.

[Rikae]

I see Agan has joined in the random produce-mentioning game, which means she's obviously in league with Greenie, Berry, and Rune. :P



Well, at least today's vote is clear, barring some master-plot as Legate said. I haven't decided which of our seers is the impostor, but the real one may be a victim tomorrow, unless the wraiths keep her alive for confusion's sake.

It's not really that simple, though. If we're lucky, the ranger will protect her. If we're even luckier, the ranger will successfully pull off a bluff of not protecting her when the wraiths expect him to, and then be able to protect her toMorrow night, buying her two dreams. It's been done before. ;)

On all this Sally-Frodo business, I had been meaning to mention, when I got back, that she might well be lying, but I see that's all sorted now. Yeah, it's definitely in the wraiths' interest to have us chasing after a veteran wraith who doesn't exist while ignoring the posts of one who does.



Any particular reason why you don't believe me? What makes Lommy's reveal so much more believable?


Sure. If Lommy is doing this as a wraith, she's sacrificing both herself and her buddy – half the team – at a time when neither is suspected. Sure, some might, but Lommy is not Fea, Nilp, or yours truly, so I wouldn't expect crazy suicidal moves.
It would be pretty foolish for her to try it as Ferny, as well, unless she had a very good idea of who the wraiths actually were so she could avoid getting them killed. If there had been some sort of hinting to give her such an idea, she wouldn't have named Sally.

Your reveal, on the other hand, makes perfect sense for a trapped wraith. Good try, I admire your fighting spirit, but it isn't going to work.

It does occur to me, though:

Why don't we lynch Brinn first? Sally is tbe less experienced of the two, and therefore, she's the one I'd rather have helping make the kill choice toNight and advising Mr. Underhill. Besides, Sally's death is not going to shed any light on the Brinn-Lommy situation (if anyone is seriously wondering about it).

[Meneltarmacil]

One thing I'm wondering about: If Brinn is a wraith, which I definitely consider possible, why does she also mention Sally as a wraith? And why would a Lommywraith point the finger at her fellow wraith Sally if she wants to sow confusion?

This whole thing just seems wrong.

[Rikae]

One thing I'm wondering about: If Brinn is a wraith, which I definitely consider possible, why does she also mention Sally as a wraith? And why would a Lommywraith point the finger at her fellow wraith Sally if she wants to sow confusion?

This whole thing just seems wrong.

Ah, but that's the brilliance of it. The chances she'd stop us from testing Lommy's seer reveal by lynching one of those she calls wraiths is slim to none. Normally, after the lynch proves the real seer right, any other wolf she dreamed would be done for. This way, she would still have a (tiny) chance.

[A Little Green]

So we have yet another seer in the village? Well, the more the merrier! I think that Brinn's claim is more likely false than Lommy's, since I find it more probable that a wraith-Brinn tries for a desperate self-defence after she's been revealed (really, if she's a wraith that's the best way for her to at least try something) than a Ferny-Lommins (I like the sound of that word. Fernylommins. Sounds cute. :D)(Looks like I really am in a need of sleep.) just ex tempore deciding to try and draw out the real seer.

One thing I'm wondering about: If Brinn is a wraith, which I definitely consider possible, why does she also mention Sally as a wraith? And why would a Lommywraith point the finger at her fellow wraith Sally if she wants to sow confusion?To answer the first question, she might have considered Sally a "lost case" since Lommyseer (that, in turn, sounds like a musketeer!) revealed her and decided to admit Sally's guilt to deny her own. Do I make sense? As for your second question, well, Brinn never said Lommy was a wraith but named her as Ferny trying to draw the real seer from hiding. Since it seems quite evident that Sally is a wolf, though, she'd be quite a clumsy Fernylommins.

I might as well vote already now.

++ Sally

I would have wanted to make a list toDay but unfortunately it's getting late (for me) and studying for my English test took me longer than I had thought. Well, it seems my list must wait until toMorrow since Lommie seems like she'd love to post and I'm tired and want to go to sleep.


EDIT: x-ed with Rikae

[Beregond]

I see Agan has joined in the random produce-mentioning game, which means she's obviously in league with Greenie, Berry, and Rune. :P


It's not really that simple, though. If we're lucky, the ranger will protect her. If we're even luckier, the ranger will successfully pull off a bluff of not protecting her when the wraiths expect him to, and then be able to protect her toMorrow night, buying her two dreams. It's been done before. ;)

If you want to know, when I saw Greenie say she was eating, or going to eat, a carrot, I thought "Hey, carrots are known to help eyesight! It's code! Eyesight = seeing, seeing = seer. Greenie = seer!" At which point I stupidly replied with my own vegetable of choice, and added in some words of Gollum for no particular reason. Yes, that's the truth. I should not have brought any attention to it, if there was a chance she was really the seer. Luckily I think I was plain wrong.

I did think about the ranger today, but didn't want to mention it, because I didn't see the point of bringing it up. I said we shouldn't sit on our hands, meaning we'd still better figure it out.


One thing I'm wondering about: If Brinn is a wraith, which I definitely consider possible, why does she also mention Sally as a wraith? And why would a Lommywraith point the finger at her fellow wraith Sally if she wants to sow confusion?

This whole thing just seems wrong.

Since Sally had already been mentioned, Brinn could have considered her a lost cause and put her on the list so that we would ask your very question. It almost cinches a Sally lynch tonight, giving everyone else another day. Who knows, maybe Sally doesn't have the time to play anyway? She hasn't been posting a whole lot.

[Beregond]

And I wanted to add:

Before it gets lost on the previous page, we should consider Rikae's idea of lynching Brinn tonight instead of Sally, if we can be sure Brinn is the impostor.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

If Lommy is doing this as a wraith, she's sacrificing both herself and her buddy – half the team – at a time when neither is suspected. Sure, some might, but Lommy is not Fea, Nilp, or yours truly, so I wouldn't expect crazy suicidal moves.
It would be pretty foolish for her to try it as Ferny, as well, unless she had a very good idea of who the wraiths actually were so she could avoid getting them killed. If there had been some sort of hinting to give her such an idea, she wouldn't have named Sally.
That's exactly the truth. We have to, most of all, bear in mind that Lommy - even if Brinn would be speaking the truth - would be Ferny, not a Wraith. It will be quite reckless to tell a name of a Wolf just to make herself a Seer. Unless it was a mistake, but such a luck? Again? When Brinn would have just dreamed of Sally? That stretches it almost beyond possibility.

Why don't we lynch Brinn first? Sally is tbe less experienced of the two, and therefore, she's the one I'd rather have helping make the kill choice toNight and advising Mr. Underhill. Besides, Sally's death is not going to shed any light on the Brinn-Lommy situation (if anyone is seriously wondering about it).
Let us not forget, though, that apart from Sally and Brinn, there would be yet another person to advise Mr. Underhill. But it is true that this idea is really not bad - I would go for it, actually. Only, it means discarding the possibility of the Wolves in (vain) hope leaving Lommy alive for the next Night, hoping that toMorrow might turn in the favor of Brinn and Lommy would be lynched (though, okay, not likely they would do that anyway - too dangerous).

One thing I'm wondering about: If Brinn is a wraith, which I definitely consider possible, why does she also mention Sally as a wraith? And why would a Lommywraith point the finger at her fellow wraith Sally if she wants to sow confusion?
Ah, but that's the brilliance of it. The chances she'd stop us from testing Lommy's seer reveal by lynching one of those she calls wraiths is slim to none. Normally, after the lynch proves the real seer right, any other wolf she dreamed would be done for. This way, she would still have a (tiny) chance.

Eexactly.

EDIT: Haha. I x-ed with Rune. Precisely, because when I posted my post and it appeared, Rune's post was already there too, just below mine. I like that.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Alright, it is probably the flu rather than a simple cold, so i am not getting home tonight. . . I guess I will just vote Sally as both our seer's agree on her.

I am very sorry about being of no help today.

If Brinn is a wraith, then I am rather impressed with the fact that she decided to sell out Sally just like that.

++Sally

[Thinlómien]

Yes, I'd like to lynch Brinn too, because she makes me feel cursed. This is the third time I'm the seer and the third time one of the wolves tries a desperate counter-reveal. (Brinn might use some advice from Noggie though... back in my first seer game, when no one believed him, he said: "happily I'm not a gifted, so you can lynch me". :D Wouldn't you like that, Brinn? ;)) Besides, Brinn's fake reveal gives me headache. Not because I'm afraid people won't believe me or something like that (Brinn's lie won't get her far) but I'm just wondering what if our ranger is one of those individuals who are unsure? That could be a disaster. So there's one more reason to lynch Brinn now.

++Brinn

About sally... yes she's an ordinary wraith. (Besides, why wouldn't she be? I caught her because she was acting fishily with Brinn and she wouldn't have done that if she was the RB. Besides I have a far better idea of the RB's identity anyway.) Well, lastly, if you look at her comment, it doesn't even look like a RB comment to me. At least I did not take it as such when I read it, (but then again, I knew she was not the RB).

Okay now I'll see if there are any individual quotes I need to reply to... and everybody (even Brinn :p), if you have questions for me, just ask...


edit: xed with Rune and Legate

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Before it gets lost on the previous page, we should consider Rikae's idea of lynching Brinn tonight instead of Sally, if we can be sure Brinn is the impostor.

Yep, truly. What is the voting looking like now? I would probably like to retract to Brinn, and anyway, toMorrow we are going to choose between the two of them - so why not toDay.

[Thinlómien]

If Brinn is a wraith, then I am rather impressed with the fact that she decided to sell out Sally just like that.What else could she do? Claim her innocent and she'd fall with her anyway? The only way Sally would not have been doomed is if she had made a third "reveal". (I'd have loved that. :D)

edit: xed with Legazzone

[Lariren Shadow]

I'm not sure what to think of the revels. Mostly because both of them convienently list two known dead innocents and the other in their lists of "dreams".

Then there is Sally. Who has pretty much given up considering that she knows she is probably going to be lynched. While she did leave the comment in her post about rings, would it be so impossible for the wolves/wraiths to turn Frodo and then throw Frodo to us in a way to save themselves?

Just thoughts.

I have to do my reading for tomorrow and celebrate submitting my last grad school application.

[Thinlómien]

Macalaure is dead? :eek::p;)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Macalaure is dead?

Hmm, a wolfy slip, p'haps? ;) :p :D

[Beregond]

I'm definitely prepared to retract my vote and choose Brinn instead. I'll wait till later just to be sure, before I lock in my vote.

[Mirandir]

Oh my, Agan. Looks like I have my work cut out for me. :eek:

On day 1 she mostly bantered with others. She was always rather quick to defend Fea & Lari, but it's maybe understandable.

I will admit, on Day 1 I was quick to defend Fea and Lari, but that was due to RL attachments. You'll notice that I've been working on not doing that anymore, even going so far as to flat-out say that I will throw either of them under the bus if I think they're guilty.

Okay this is a minor thing but she said Looks can be deceiving, Berry suggested she's a wolf because she doesn't look like one, and she said he caught her. I don't know if a newbie wolf would do that.

I highly enjoy making deceiving and/or sarcastic comments. Make of that what you will.


Then there this which tripped my radar:

The beginning makes me a bit uneasy because it kind of screams "We are aligned! Close your eyes and don't see it!" but on the other hand I find it quite unlikely that those two are wolves together, because, well, two rather new wolves just doesn't sound very probable.

You would be correct. ^_^

She voted for Lommy, whose flip-flopping had been bothering her for the past few pages. Her vote post is close to the end of Page 5. Lommy's last post is close to the end of Page 3. The first lines of that post were Continuing my flip-flopping on this topic...
Why vote someone because of something she has admitted herself? Well yeah of course she could be trying to look good by admitting the weird things she does, but Lommy is famous for her flip-flopping (okay this is not something I automatically expect you to know). But the vote is a bit forced-looking still, especially as she hadn't talked about Lommy at all earlier.

Honestly, on Day 1 I didn't have much analytic reason to lynch anybody. At that point I was going with my gut feelings, which in that case turned out to be wrong.

When Mira voted, it became Brinn-3, Mac-2, Lommy-2, Gollum-2, Lari&me-1. If she and Brinn are wolves together, why didn't she vote for Mac to slighten the chance Brinn was lynched?

Because Brinn and I aren't wolves together? :D

Although I agree with Mira that the Gollum bandwagon was odd, I think her reaction to it

is a bit exaggerated. If she's a wolf, she knew Gollum was innocent and could make herself look a bit better by saying that.

That would imply that I knew Gollum was innocent. I do have a tendency of overreacting and generally try to take some time to cool off before saying anything (both here and in RL) but was a little hyped up, what with it being so close to deadline and all and didn't take that time that I usually do. The way I reacted to Rune's comment yesterDay should prove that.

Mira also asked why there had been no talk about who the ranger might be although every other role had been discussed. Well there had been a reason to talk about the other roles, but usually it's better if we don't share our speculations on them because it's always possible the wolves haven't realised those things yet.
I could see that as a newbie-wolfish seemingly innocent inquiry.

See, that didn't occur to me at the time, being a newbie. Not a newbie-wolf, mind you, but just a newbie.

She was quite quick to agree with Fea when she accused Dury. Fea was innocent but that doesn't change the fact that Durelin was an easy lynch with, erm, not so good reasons.
The only thing Mira had said about Dury in her analysis was that she hadn't posted much that day. Now all of a sudden she was mighty suspicious. Okay, granted, she posted IC under an hour before deadline only after Mira's post, but Mira accused her for her first ranger post.
She ended up voting Dury. I find her vote fishy. Her explanation was that she posted IC 40 minutes before deadline which was a strange move and makes her very suspicious. This was the first time she mentioned Dury's IC posting, which others had mentioned earlier, though. It's just such an easy vote that it bothers me. She xed with two other Dury votes, though, so she probably thought hers to be the second instead of fourth vote for Dur.

Although my reasoning may not have been the best, it was close to deadline and I didn't have anybody that I felt would be a better lynch candidate. And yes, I did think mine would be the second vote for Durelin and was rather surprised when I checked the cross posts to see more votes for her.

Mira was suspicious of Rune because of the way he treated Fea. I think her reasons were pretty much dependent on Fea's guilt, of which people were rather sure yesterday.
She voted for Rune after an argument between them.

While it is true that I was suspicious of Rune because of the way he treated Fea, it wasn't because I was convinced of Fea's guilt. I never know what to think about her, even when we're not playing together and I know her role. It just seemed weird to me that he was defending her so vehemently with no apparent reason.

Today she hasn't been around yet.

Sorry about that. Classes and whatnot. :p

I'll be back in a few hours to do some more contributing before deadline.

[Aganzir]

I see Agan has joined in the random produce-mentioning game, which means she's obviously in league with Greenie, Berry, and Rune. :P
Eek you caught me!

Rikae's suggestion to lynch Brinn is a good one. I thought about it too but she managed to post first. I don't think it makes much difference which one of them gets to chat one night more, but it would be rather uncomfortable if the ranger protected Brinn while the wraiths attacked Lommy.
*scrolls down further and notices Lomz has already said the same*

I don't really understand Menel. First he seems to trust Brinn
And Brinn, I always figured you were on our side.
and in his next post he says
If Brinn is a wraith, which I definitely consider possible, why does she also mention Sally as a wraith?
That's some serious flip-flopping. :p

When I saw his first post I thought it could be a cobbler hint but even then it would be rather obvious. It's just that on our side phrasing.

Greenie is making me laugh but at the same time, I don't know, she scares me. There just seems to be a certain reluctance to state her opinion on who she believes. But I want to go through Greenie's posts before judging her.

While she did leave the comment in her post about rings, would it be so impossible for the wolves/wraiths to turn Frodo and then throw Frodo to us in a way to save themselves?
What do you mean? That sally is Frodo?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'm definitely prepared to retract my vote and choose Brinn instead. I'll wait till later just to be sure, before I lock in my vote.
Yep. There is hardly that much to wait for... but well, one just feels better. It's this "what if..." But I will vote her anyway.

I don't really understand Menel.
(...)
That's some serious flip-flopping. :p

I wouldn't call it that bad, I think Menel is behaving genuinely and quite reasonably. Carefully. At least I am inclined not to suspect him.

What do you mean? That sally is Frodo?

I took it the way she did not read, or understand, what has been said properly.

[Aganzir]

Yeah well it's impossible now that Mira and Lari were both wolves so those parts in my analysis could be erased as well.

I do have a tendency of overreacting and generally try to take some time to cool off before saying anything
So now you should understand why Rune said that having played with him earlier would give one an advantage. Someone unfamiliar with your playing style could easily suspect you because of that overreacting. ;)

While it is true that I was suspicious of Rune because of the way he treated Fea, it wasn't because I was convinced of Fea's guilt.
And actually your reasons didn't even depend on her guilt. Rune could as well be a wolf who was trying to buddy up with an innocent / possible cobbler. But then again he just likes playing with Fea.

Okay I'm starting to feel better about Mira. But at the same time I'm afraid of making the Gollum mistake (he was a newbie wolf and I suspected him heavily but lessened my suspicions the moment he bothered to respond to my accusations properly. It was a mistake I paid for with my life), ie I don't want to forget all about her, either.

Hmm I wonder if it tells something about me that I always go after newbies...

[Beregond]

I took it the way she did not read, or understand, what has been said properly.

Unless...both Lommy and Brinn are wraiths/ferny/bad, working together. Is that possible? It doesn't make sense, since only one of them is likely to last the next two nights, unless Sally is passed over twice in favour of someone deemed more dangerous. It would be a pretty devious plan.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hmm, now I took a look at the voting (to determine how many people might retract for Brinn, or how many won't probably come back), and you know what is funny? We were pretty stupid, as, unless I overlooked something, Brinn started the voting herself. And we just blindly followed (of course, it makes basically no difference if we vote one wolf or the other, but still, I guess we - at least me - did not stop much to even think whether we could have voted otherwise).

Just for those curious ones:

Brinn => Sally (Sally 1)
Menel => Sally (Sally 2)
Rikae => Sally (Sally 3)
Nerwen => Sally (Sally 4)
Mahatma => Sally (Sally 5)
Legate => Sally (Sally 6)
Greenster => Sally (Sally 7)
Rune => Sally (Sally 8)
Lommy => Brinn (Sally 8, Brinn 1)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Unless...both Lommy and Brinn are wraiths/ferny/bad, working together. Is that possible? It doesn't make sense, since only one of them is likely to last the next two nights, unless Sally is passed over twice in favour of someone deemed more dangerous. It would be a pretty devious plan.

I thought about that in the very origin, but it is just senseless. If they are both impersonators, they will both end up dead eventually, and very soon. And one Sally is not worth it anyway. (And count into it what Sally said: that she is the Ringbearer. This way, she admitted that she is not an ordo, too - that she is a wraith now; whether she would lie about being RB or not. There would be three of them revealed. Not worth it at all.)

[Aganzir]

I wouldn't call it that bad, I think Menel is behaving genuinely and quite reasonably. Carefully. At least I am inclined not to suspect him.
I didn't call it bad, I just said I don't understand what made him change his mind like that. :p

I took it the way she did not read, or understand, what has been said properly.
I wasn't sure whether she hadn't understood it or I didn't understand her.

Berry, if they all were wolves, it would leave only one alive. And it'd be quite, well, unnecessary to sacrifice so many of them. Also, in that case there'd still be the real seer watching out for them. So I highly doubt they'd do it. :p

[Nerwen]

Then there is Sally. Who has pretty much given up considering that she knows she is probably going to be lynched. While she did leave the comment in her post about rings, would it be so impossible for the wolves/wraiths to turn Frodo and then throw Frodo to us in a way to save themselves?

No, it has been shown (see Kitanna's post at #619) that Sally is definitely not the Ringbearer, and just said that to confuse the village. Also, perhaps, in the hope that we would overlook connections between her and the third original wraith on earlier Days.

EDIT: X'd since Legate at #654.

[Thinlómien]

Errr ok I reread sally's post and got why you thought she was Frodo. I must not have been paying very much attention to her post, I'm afraid. :D

Although I remember Lommy wavering about the dreamed-of Fea too... But it was different.Yes. You guys gave me a horrible headache yesterDay by trying to get both my known innocents lynched. I was really unsure how much I should defend Fea and I was not even convinced myself about her un-Fernyness. (In fact, at one point I was sure she was Ferny, she had done that Durelin-fiasco just to look so suspicious that she'd be dreamt of and then she'd manage to draw out the seer by seeing who comes to defend her on the following Day... and I cursed myself for being stupid enough to sort of defend her although I had not fallen on the "trap" since I had dreamt of Fea earlier... I'm really glad that scenario isn't true.)

Lommy has no more evidence than I do.*raises an eyebrow* I don't? Check. On my Day2 summary, I used the word "simply" in the descriptions of my opinions of my dream subjects and not when describing anyone else. YesterDay, all my seer dreams were "gut-feelings" unlike everyhting else (even my real gut-feelings were just "feelings".) Were you as considerate in your phrasings to leave the village a message in case you get killed at Night? :Merisu:

And to be honest, I'm not sure Lommy would do it even if she was the cobbler.I would consider it, for sure.

Secondly, why not dream of Lommy? Is she that unusual for a seer pick?Yes, at least for a Night1 pick because I'm always so transparent (except in the game where I was wolves with tp :cool: ). I mean, a village with people as confusing as Fea, Mac, Nerwen, Aganzir and Greenie, you'd pick me as Night1 dream? Silly, I say.


edit: xed since my last

[Beregond]

(I had to look a while before I found myself on Legate's list. :p)

Oh my, didn't realize so many had cast in. We can still change though, easy.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

But this voting Brinn looks good. I suggest we go for it. Indeed, my friend Mohandas Karamchand ;) there is enough of us who may retract and change the lynchee, and even more who haven't voted yet.

--Sally

++Brinn

And I like Lommy's post. And makes me even more convinced who is the real Seer here.

[Aganzir]

Yes. You guys gave me a horrible headache yesterDay by trying to get both my known innocents lynched.
:D Sorry love.

I would consider it, for sure.
Bah I was supposed to say "without any provocation, at least." Apparently I forgot it. :p

++Brinn

I feel like going through Lari's posts but I know I don't have enough energy for a massive analysis now so maybe I'd just better not do it yet. Besides I might want to go to sleep soonish, anyway.

[Thinlómien]

Bah I was supposed to say "without any provocation, at least." Apparently I forgot it. :pYou did - I just didn't quote that. ;)

[Beregond]

Yes. You guys gave me a horrible headache yesterDay by trying to get both my known innocents lynched

Ugh. I'm glad my 0% guilty voting record didn't result in Mac's dismissal. If you're right then I hope he forgives me, though he could still be Ferny...

I hope I'm not wrong for once when I do this:

--Sally

++Brinn


Voting earlier in case it helps sway more voters. *shrugs* I don't think I'll want to change it again anyway.

[Aganzir]

You did - I just didn't quote that. ;)
You're twisting the truth - you put a period at the end of the sentence so I thought it had really ended there. :p

Berry you couldn't change it even if you wished. We're limited to one retraction per day if I remember correctly.

[Thinlómien]

You're twisting the truth - you put a period at the end of the sentence so I thought it had really ended there. :pI didn't. You said that in another sentence. ;)

[Aganzir]

I didn't. You said that in another sentence. ;)
Hmph I should probably go to sleep when I start forgetting my own words.

[Nerwen]

Announcement: I might not be able to get to a computer toMorrow (see admin thread). And maybe not the rest of toDay either.

Anyway... the plan of changing the lynch to Brinn has merit... I'm thinking about it.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

My thoughts on people.

satansaloser2005 - a Wraith since the very beginning
Lariren Shadow - now I have to look at these two newbies...
Mirandir - ...more closely. My main problem with them is, though, that I don't know what to expect from them. I haven't seen them playing yet. So I don't know if when they say something which looks fishy, if it really is, or if it is just their way of posting.
Thinlómien - Seer
Legate of Amon Lanc - me. Innocent.
Rikae - she seems innocent to me. However, me and her agree in so many things, and she seems so fast, no, better word, so easy to agree on what is "right" (lynching Fea *ahem it seemed right at the moment*, lynching sally, lynching Brinn...) that I wonder if it is not calculated. But, well. Just keeping an eye out...
Aganzir - I am inclined to believe her innocent. She behaves genuinely, posts helpfully and sensibly, not seeming to deliberately do anything which would be harmful for the village.
Beregond - sort of similar to Lari&Mira in the sense that sometimes I don't know. I can sort of relate to his style, and I can see many of his reactions as genuine, although I can see his sort of newbi-ish "oh, yes, sorry, I didn't see that" and "oh, yes, let's do that" as perhaps a thing a newbie Wolf might do as well, try not to stick out of the crowd, but...
Nerwen - I have a rather neutral feeling about her, i.e. nothing to consider her suspicious for, but at the same time not that she would seem significantly active or helpful to me.
Rune Son of Bjarne - not sure, at times I think him innocent from the way he behaves, but I can as well imagine him being guilty. I was thinking about how Brinn put him on her list - now this is always double-edged from a wolf, it may be one way or the other - and also what Sally said about him. But perhaps it's an attempt to make us center on him.
Macalaure - innocent, according to the Seer. Unless being a Ferny or something.
Meneltarmacil - I think he is innocent. Like I said, his behavior seems genuine and quite sensible in its own way.
A Little Green - seems innocent, although I cannot get a very good read on her. She is rather slipping under my radar, but at moments, she gives innocentish feeling.
Brinniel - Wraith. Lynch her.

[Thinlómien]

I won't make a complete list but I will say just a word or two in case I manage to die toNight.

Brinn and sally are wolves and Mac is innocent. (Okay, surprise surprise. :D) I would be, after some pondering, be inclined to think Legate, Rikae, Aganzir , Nerwen and Rune innocent too. (I would not rule out the possibility of A or L being Ferny, though, but it seems unlikely. And I see I put quite many people in there... hmm.. might be likely that someone of them is just fooling me brilliantly.)

Of the rest, I won't say more, except that I think one of them is Underhill and of the rest of them I have no idea. I wouldn't be surprised if the other surviving wraith was among them too.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Aganzir http://forum.barrowdowns.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?p=583442#post583442)
When Mira voted, it became Brinn-3, Mac-2, Lommy-2, Gollum-2, Lari&me-1. If she and Brinn are wolves together, why didn't she vote for Mac to slighten the chance Brinn was lynched?

Because Brinn and I aren't wolves together? :D

Or maybe because you also thought Mac was Ferny (as many people thought at the time)?


--Sally

++Brinn

[Brinniel]

You know, listening to Lommy and lynching me is probably the dumbest thing you could do. Do you really want to lynch your seer? Then again, this entire village has been so blind this far with the losses of Fea and Durelin, I guess it isn't all that surprising that you're about to yet again make another mistake and lynch me. :rolleyes:

Btw, just because Lommy revealed first, doesn't make her at all more believable. Seriously, if you all think that, it's the perfect scheme a baddie could come up with.

*raises an eyebrow* I don't? Check. On my Day2 summary, I used the word "simply" in the descriptions of my opinions of my dream subjects and not when describing anyone else. YesterDay, all my seer dreams were "gut-feelings" unlike everyhting else (even my real gut-feelings were just "feelings".) Were you as considerate in your phrasings to leave the village a message in case you get killed at Night?
Sorry, but I don't see how these are valid hints. I use phrasings like that all the time. Of course I'm sure you had this planned out. What a great job you've done so far for the wraiths...you've certainly distracted the entire village for the entire Day, plus you're about to get the real seer lynched.

[Brinniel]

And anyways, how very inconsiderate of you all to decide to lynch your seer when she's away.. :(

Ugh, this village is being quite ridiculous. You all bandwagon with the first idea someone has in mind which is the worst thing you can do. I don't know why you'd prefer to risk lynching me rather than vote a known wraith...though I'm sure there's at least one, if not both wraiths are behind this sudden bandwagon. If you keep this up, we will most certainly lose.

[Rikae]

I hate to gloat, Brinn, since, as I said, I admire your spirit (and feel a bit bad for you - it sucks to be seer-dreamt) - however:

I don't know why you'd prefer to risk lynching me rather than vote a known wraith...though I'm sure there's at least one, if not both wraiths are behind this sudden bandwagon. If you keep this up, we will most certainly lose.

Both? There are four, and you only "dreamed of" one. :p

[Macalaure]

Mac, you are still looking horribly sinister to me, had I not had the word that you are innocent, believe me, I would have suggested lynching you again.

What is it that looks so sinister about me? That I think it's fun that I escaped death narrowly thrice now? Of course I enjoy that! It's the thrill about this game!


Anyway, I definitely believe Lommy and not Brinn. I'd much rather lynch Brinn toDay, simply because she annoyed me by making me think she's innocent all the time.

Mostly because both of them convienently list two known dead innocents and the other in their lists of "dreams".

If you want me, come and claim me! :p

[Mirandir]

Or maybe because you also thought Mac was Ferny (as many people thought at the time)?

Nope. :D

[Brinniel]

Since it looks like I'm a goner anyway, I might as well share some thoughts so my death won't be completely pointless. I'm feeling rather bitter about the village's foolishness, but I want to put that aside. Anyway, I really hope the mods won't make seer again anytime soon as I'm finding this completely stressful:

Lommy, I thought you might be the Seer. I'm so glad to have been right about something, after yesterDay.
Sounds like something a wolf would say in order to get on Lommy's good side.
First, Fea. The easy way would be to simply accuse people like Rikae and Legate who were heavily for her lynching. However, I'm not sure whether a wraith would like to be so noisily for lynching someone they know is innocent anyway since that might cast some suspicion on them the next Day. What I think we really need to look at is the people who slip by the flow, voicing a sufficient amount of suspicion for Fea and voting according to the general consensus. I'll see to that if I have time.
This sounds like a smart comment. I would most certainly look at those who went with the flow to keep unnoticed. It's more likely Legate and Rikae are innocent and kept alive to become potential targets.
Brinn's way of revealing looks more honest compared to Lommy (when a baddie tries to impersonate a gifted, there's often a certain by-the-way attitude, which I think Lommy had in her post. Garr I can't explain it better, it's just that it takes you a while to realise there's a gifted revealing. Okay that was a bad way of saying it, it's hard to explain), but I trust Lommy more. She being the seer makes much more sense.
I still find this statement poorly said. Do you care to attempt to further explain, Agan?
Actually I just meant the part about "taking a closer look at everyone" having to wait till "tomorrow" after "sleep".
The "taking a closer look" part was somewhat of a hint, though the sleep part simply had to do with RL.
I thought about that too, at first. But then, after re-reading Sally's post, I ruled that out. It would have been helpful for the Wolves to lure the village into confusion on whether one of the Wolves who remain is a Wolf from the beginning or Frodo, but Sally gave it out, and I believe it was an innocent slip. Most of all, because I believe she was not able to communicate with the Wolves yet: I presume at Night, everybody sent their picks, and the Mod needed to get the PM from Wolves, then wait also for the PM from the Ranger (if perchance he did not save the target), and only then send PM to Frodo that he was turned. It would make sense that Sally could not PM with the Wolves at all, therefore she saw her newly formed Wraith-star rise and fall. Most lucky, otherwise it might have helped the general confusion.
I'm sure the wraiths would want Sally to look like she was the RB so that everyone else would stop looking for Frodo.
One thing I'm wondering about: If Brinn is a wraith, which I definitely consider possible, why does she also mention Sally as a wraith? And why would a Lommywraith point the finger at her fellow wraith Sally if she wants to sow confusion?
This is an extremely safe comment and inaccurate and possibly wolfish.

Mirandir's defense looks fairly innocent.

Rikae's suggestion to lynch Brinn is a good one. I thought about it too but she managed to post first. I don't think it makes much difference which one of them gets to chat one night more, but it would be rather uncomfortable if the ranger protected Brinn while the wraiths attacked Lommy.
*scrolls down further and notices Lomz has already said the same*
Seems like an easy way to bandwagon.

Both? There are four, and you only "dreamed of" one.
It wasn't a slip...there are two wraiths and one RingBearer. Seriously, you're picking apart my words just so you can find a better excuse after your suspiciously bandwagoning vote. :rolleyes:

[Rikae]

It wasn't a slip...there are two wraiths and one RingBearer. Seriously, you're picking apart my words just so you can find a better excuse after your suspiciously bandwagoning vote. :rolleyes:

You mean that bandwagon I started earlier toDay?

It's kind of ironic... I was hoping you were the real seer. :p

[Brinniel]

Some final thoughts...

Sally is guilty, Rune is innocent, and Lommy is the cobbler, I know that much. Mirandir seems more innocent after her defenses. I'm not so sure about Lari. Beregond just seems like an easily manipulated newbie. Legate is misguided, but probably innocent. Rikae should be watched closely, even though I'm not sure a wraith would be so bold. Are you really so sure Mac is innocent? I'd take a second look at him. Menel's a bit fishy. I'm least trusting of Aganzir and Nerwen, particularly for their bandwagoning toDay. I wouldn't be surprised if both of them are wraiths.

A List:

Suspicious
Nerwen
Aganzir

Somewhat Suspicious
Rikae
Menel

Not Sure
Lari
Greenie
Mac

Innocentish
Mirandir
Beregond

Innocent
Rune

Cobbler
Lommy

Wraith
Sally

Am I missing anyone?

[Brinniel]

You mean that bandwagon I started earlier toDay?
You're right, I thought Legate started it, but I was mistaken. :o

You were so sure Fea was evil, but you were wrong. How are you so sure that you're not wrong this time?

[Rikae]

Seer:
Lahmi

Innocent
Larry
Barrigownd
Mehn-L
Nurwhen
Aggantseer
Leggit
Ruin

Cobbleranger
Davende or Cailomer

Wraith
Bryn
Silly
Meeruh
Gri-ni

You were so sure Fea was evil, but you were wrong. How are you so sure that you're not wrong this time?

Bill the pony told me.

[Macalaure]

Lommy is the seer, Brinniel and Sally are wraiths. This leaves:

Lari
Mirandir
Legate
Rikae
Aganzir
Beregond
Nerwen
Rune
Menel
Lily

One wraith, one Frodo (who probably cannot yet be distinguished). I'll try to come up with a more or less informed opinion on each before deadline.

[Macalaure]

Let's start with the easy ones.

Menel has trouble following the game, I think. I don't think he's a wraith - that would have shown in some way. He could very well be Ferny.

Rikae isn't technically an easy case, but I have no hope of figuring her out anyway. The amount of silliness and lack of sharpness points towards innocence, though.

I don't need to take a second look at Beregond: he's innocent. If he isn't he'd be one of the slickest newbie wolves I've ever seen.

[Meneltarmacil]

I'll let my Sally vote stand for now, as I can be reasonably sure she's a wraith. This seer business should clear itself up soon enough when we see who the wolves try to kill.

The only person here who really ought to worry about who is the real Seer at this point is the Ranger, whose task it will be to protect her tonight. The ranger should find out who is actually the seer by dawn tomorrow if she survives, and if she dies we'll know who to lynch. Of course, the wraiths could choose not to kill the Seer, but that probably wouldn't put them in a good position.

[Mirandir]

While I do think that sally is definitely a wraith (one of the few things both "seers" agree on), I agree with whoever said it earlier that it makes more sense for us to lynch Brinn. Her death will leave us with more information. So for now, I'll vote for her but reserve the ability to retract later if my over-tired brain comes up with something different or better justification.

++Brinniel

[Mirandir]

Wraith
Bryn
Silly
Meeruh
Gri-ni

Any particular reason why, my dear?

[satansaloser2005]

*snickers*


You do of course realize that Brinn never said she dreamed me as a wraith. She said she dreamed me and I am a wraith. Big difference.


*snickers as she reads the bit about only having one retraction per day*



Just putting that possibility out there. :p

[Beregond]

Erm, sorry for being thick, but what difference? :confused:

[Nerwen]

Wait, I'm back. Trip postponed due to bushfire danger (RL in these parts can get nearly as exciting as WW sometimes).

I'll let my Sally vote stand for now, as I can be reasonably sure she's a wraith.

*scratches head* Both Seer-claimants say Sally is a wraith. Sally says Sally is a wraith... and you're only "reasonably" sure?

This seer business should clear itself up soon enough when we see who the wolves try to kill.

The only person here who really ought to worry about who is the real Seer at this point is the Ranger, whose task it will be to protect her tonight. The ranger should find out who is actually the seer by dawn tomorrow if she survives, and if she dies we'll know who to lynch. Of course, the wraiths could choose not to kill the Seer, but that probably wouldn't put them in a good position.

And if the Ranger chooses the wrong "Seer" to protect?
EDIT: X'd with Sally and Beregond.

[Mirandir]

You do of course realize that Brinn never said she dreamed me as a wraith. She said she dreamed me and I am a wraith. Big difference.


But Lommy did dream of you as a wraith (I think; I don't really have the time or energy to go sifting through a million back posts to find it) and she's the one I'm inclined to believe.

EDIT: x-ed with Berry and Nerwen

[Nerwen]

Erm, sorry for being thick, but what difference? :confused:

None... but I think she's implying she's actually Ferny and this was all a Fiendish Plot to lynch Brinniel. Or something.

Except, why would she say that now if it were true?

[Brinniel]

Except, why would she say that now if it were true?
Because she thinks enough of you have already retracted once that I'm doomed to die whether you change your mind about me or not. That might be so...though the voting might actually be closer than she thinks.

I don't blame her for gloating though. The plan to get me lynched obviously worked...toDay's events went brilliantly for the wraiths. They have a reason to celebrate. :/

[Macalaure]

Lily:

In #247 she lists Brinn as innocent (though she uses maybe a few too many words to state it). Her opinion of Sally ("there was something but I can't find it anymore") sounds genuine. YesterDay she has no read on Sally and defends Brinn. She lacks suspects yet nobody votes her for that, how unfair. ;)

None of the other opinions she expressed really point toward her being evil. Defending Brinn, being undecided about Sally, and lacking other suspects - I surely sympathise with that.

Also, Brinn pursues her a bit, in a way that doesn't appear wraith-on-wraith-ish.

I have no reason to suspect her.


Nerwen:

If she's evil, then her Day1-vote must annoy her in hindsight: she could have lynched the seer (both!)! Abstains from voting on Day2. Analyses the end of Day2 and reaches softer conclusions than I did. She's quite determinedly after Fea, a bit in Legate and Rikae's smoke screen. She consider voting me and short before the deadline gets on Sally's trail.

She's constrained by time. What she says does not point towards evil. She's probably innocent, but Nerwen is a smart one, so you never really know.


Lari:

#195 looks suspicious to me. Sure, it's Day1 and nobody knows anything yet, but the reasons she gives for her considerations are either joking or weak. Sally she has no idea about and Brinn she forgets, which probably speaks against her guilt.

#373: both Sally and Brinn are innocent to her. Afterwards she gets entangled into the Durelin-lynch, and suspiciously so, even though the "save Fea" thing doesn't look so bad anymore.

YesterDay she flip-flops from wanting to lynch Fea to defending her (and everything in between) all the time. Tries to deflect the Fea-save-suspicions on Rune. She gets a bit tangled up in her own arguments.

ToDay she hasn't yet committed to either side.

Lari's still the most suspicious thing I have.


I'll try to have another look at others from my list, but I'm not sure whether I'll make it. Maybe the wraiths will be merciful. :rolleyes:

[Macalaure]

Nah, I will RL-regret it if I stay up late today...

For completeness sake, my opinions on

Mirandir: probably innocent
Legate: probably innocent
Aganzir: I really don't know
Rune: looks maybe too evil to really be evil

I'm not sure whether anybody has done it yet, but we need to put ourselves into the wraiths' position and try to guess who would be good or bad kills for them last night, since I doubt Frodo has left any obvious hints.

And with a

++Brinniel

I will leave you for today, hoping to see you again toMorrow.

[Lariren Shadow]

++Sally

She seems like a safe bet, and well, there are four wraiths/wolves at the moment.

And Mac, I know, but I kept reading Fea's posts, and I know her. She usually owns up to her guilt. And I looked perfectly innocent to everyone in last game. But before you think I'm really guilty, I suggest you take a better look at my posts.

[Nerwen]

Because she thinks enough of you have already retracted once that I'm doomed to die whether you change your mind about me or not. That might be so...though the voting might actually be closer than she thinks.

You'd think she'd have checked first, wouldn't you?

All right. I have hesitated about retracting, mainly because I have rather lost faith in my own judgement after yesterDay, but this clinches it for me: I think Sally is simply trying to get us to lynch her instead of Brinn.

--Sally

++Brinniel.

And if by any chance we're wrong and Lommy is evil and Brinn is the real Seer... well, she was probably done for anyway.

EDIT: X'd with Lari.

[satansaloser2005]

So far the vote count seems to be:

Brinn: 8
Sally: 5




I GET TO LIVE! (Well, at least for now. :p) My fellow baddies are in their holes rejoicing at our good fortune. That is all.

[satansaloser2005]

Bah, well, as long as I'm talking about it anyway... jeez, he could have ignored my hints because he *didn't* send his own name to the wraiths after all. In fact, I can think of a reason why he wouldn't... oh, I'm so stupid... *headdesk*

I didn't see anything. Nope, not me. You said nothing. This was an empty post, and not at all a completely obvious outing of yourself as Ferny. Thanks for that. Thanks a lot. Blast, it's so hard to find good help these days....



What else could she do? Claim her innocent and she'd fall with her anyway? The only way Sally would not have been doomed is if she had made a third "reveal". (I'd have loved that. :D)

edit: xed with Legazzone

Oh, but I did, lovely. :Merisu:

[Brinniel]

*yawns*

You all are so boring and predictable. Like mindless cattle, believing the first claim you hear. Never mind, I don't really care anymore...why waste my time with a close-minded village? :rolleyes:

In other news, did anyone watch LOST tonight? It was awesome. :D

[Nerwen]

I didn't see anything. Nope, not me. You said nothing. This was an empty post, and not at all a completely obvious outing of yourself as Ferny. Thanks for that. Thanks a lot. Blast, it's so hard to find good help these days....

Oh, you're back to being a wraith, are you, Sally?:rolleyes:

[satansaloser2005]

Oh, you're back to being a wraith, are you, Sally?:rolleyes:

ToDay, certainly. Glad you're catching on. :p

[Nerwen]

*yawns*

You all are so boring and predictable. Like mindless cattle, believing the first claim you hear. Never mind, I don't really care anymore...why waste my time with a close-minded village? :rolleyes:

In other news, did anyone watch LOST tonight? It was awesome. :D

*yawns*

Frankly, I think the forces of darkness could be putting on a better show.

Remember Mormegil and Nogrod in Fea's game? Now that was awesome.

EDIT: X'd with Sally.

[Brinniel]

But really guys, do you always have to let the seer do all the work for you? You blindly lynched innocents and couldn't manage to lynch a single wraith until the seer revealed. Lucky for you. But without a seer to do your dirty work, you are all just hopeless. Let's just see how well you do once she is dead. :rolleyes:

[satansaloser2005]

*yawns*

Frankly, I think the forces of darkness could be putting on a better show.

Remember Mormegil and Nogrod in Fea's game? Now that was awesome.

You want a show? Oh, now you're just asking for it!


EDIT: x'd with Brinn. *runs off to plot* See, you should have killed me!

[Brinniel]

Frankly, I think the forces of darkness could be putting on a better show.
Just wait for Sally's final act. She has a whole extra Day and I know she'll do me proud. :D

[Nerwen]

Just wait for Sally's final act. She has a whole extra Day and I know she'll do me proud. :D

Let it be known that Brinniel has just confessed.

Anyone else around, apart from these two?

[satansaloser2005]

Remember when the seer revealed and I got on my knees
And begged you not to vote for me because I'd go berserk?? Well....
You retracted anyhow and then the Day got worse and worse and now you see
I've gone completely out of my mind....And....

They're coming to take me away, haha!
They're coming to take me away, hoho, hehe, haha
To the Barrow Downs, where life is beautiful all the time
And I'll be happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats
And they're coming to take me away, haha!!!!!

You thought it was a joke and so you laughed, you laughed when I had said
that getting lynched would make me flip my lid....RIGHT???
I know you laughed, I heard you laugh, you laughed you laughed
And lynched and bandwaggoned on, but now you know I'm utterly dead....And....

They're coming to take me away, haha!
They're coming to take me away, hoho, hehe, haha.
To the Barrow Downs, with trees and flowers and chirping birds
And cunning Finns who sit and smile and twiddle their thumbs and toes
And they're coming to take me away, haha!!!

I faked a reveal, I lynched a Fea, and this is how you pay me back
for all my kind unselfish loving deeds. Huh??
Well you just wait, they'll find you yet and when they do
They'll put you in the Tol-in-Gaurhoth Grimoire, you nasty seer!!! And....

They're coming to take me away, haha!
They're coming to take me away, hoho, hehe, haha.
To the Barrow Downs, where life is beautiful all the time
And I'll be happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats
And they're coming to take me away, haha!!!

To the Barrow Downs, with trees and flowers and chirping birds
And Bombadil who sits and smiles and twiddles his thumbs and toes
And they're coming to take me away, haha!!!
To the Barrow Downs, where life is beautiful all the time....

[Brinniel]

On a more serious note, the reason I'm exposing myself now is because I want to let you know in advance that my outburst on Day 1 wasn't any sort of evil scheme of mine. I was honestly offended by some comments and spun a bit out of control...it has absolutely nothing to do with my role or the game itself, and I felt really bad about it afterwards. I would really hate to be lynched having you guys think I was unsporty. :(

Now that that's out of the way, I don't understand why you all think I make such a brilliant wolf. I'm really quite crappy at it...if you don't believe me, take a look at my past games. The only one I've played exceptionally well was Fea's and a lot of that was dumb luck. But otherwise, I'm really horrible, no joke! I never make the right kill and my ploys never work. So stop calling me a scary baddie or whatever, because if you think that, you're just not trying hard enough. I've never been right about a gifted until this game...I actually wanted to kill Lommy on Night 2 and Sally said no. :p I'm not that stupid; I was almost positive she was the seer but I wasn't going to risk the chance she may be protected or I might be wrong, and since killing her would incriminate me and Sally, why not brave it out? And it was a good choice since instead we found our Frodo. I actually have to give my fellow credit for the kill choice. I didn't want to kill Greenie, but they insisted for two Nights, so I gave in. Good thing I did. :)

[Brinniel]

Oh, c'mon Nerwen, you know you want to confess too. It's fun. ;)

[satansaloser2005]

Come to the dark side, Nerwen. We have cookies. (And alcohol, seeing as you are of proper age and all.)


And Brinn I believe you x'd with a bit of something silly and special-made for you. :p:Merisu:

[Brinniel]

Note that Rikae's controlled two lynches now. Just because she was right this time doesn't mean she's innocent.

Oh btw, you might want another look at Mac. I know the seer dreamt him innocent and all, but...

[Brinniel]

Yay!

[Kitanna]

“I'm the seer!” Lommy cried. “I've been masquerading as a woman to hide myself from the wraiths. I'm Butterbur.”

“I'm Butterbur.” Brinn shouted back. “And I've always preferred drag.”

“Wraith!” Lommy pointed a finger at Brinn. “Bloody, filthy wraith!”

“Bill Ferny!” Brinn said. But the village had believed Lommy and not her. “You're all cattle, lemmings, sheep! Sheeple! This place is boring.” Brinn was slowly backing away from the crowd. “My companions will avenge me!” She sprinted away, heading right for her pie shop.

The village gave chase. But Brinn ran fast. She barreled through her front door, slammed it and locked it. Unfortunately she have run out of town rather than trapping herself in a building. Angered by the havoc Brinn had been allowed to cause over the past few nights the villages lit torches and surrounded the shop.

A brick came flying through the window. “You better pay for that!” Brinn went to the broken window and shook her fist.

While the villagers had a clear shot a torch flew through the air and hit Brinn in the face. She screamed in pain and terror. Her human disguise melted off, revealing the nothingness beneath. Lommy rushed in, grabbed Brinn and threw her into her pie oven. The wraith shrieked and banged on the oven door. But no one was going to come to her rescue.

Brinn died and her shop was searched. The villagers uncovered her wraith cloak and sword. One down, three to go.

Living
satansaloser2005
Lariren Shadow
Mirandir
Thinlómien
Legate of Amon Lanc
Rikae
Aganzir
Beregond
Nerwen
Rune Son of Bjarne
Macalaure
Meneltarmacil
A Little Green

Dead
Kitanna – Made an example of Night 1 (moddess)
Gollum the Great – Eaten by hogs Day 1 (innocent)
Shastanis Althreduin – Forced to swallow a sword Night 2 (innocent)
Durelin – Hanged on Day 2 (innocent)
Nogrod – Disemboweled and hanged by own intestines Night 3 (innocent)
Feanor of the Peredhil – Hoed to death Day 3 (innocent)
Brinniel – Set on fire and turned into Mrs. Lovett Day 4 (wraith)

[satansaloser2005]

Yay!

Another parody for you, at risk of crossing with the moddess.


"And now, let her die. For in lynching we depart from a world that is entirely everyone else's...."


Fare thee well, my faithful accomplice. I shall be joining you shortly. *hugs*

[Brinniel]

Boy was that fun. I would've done it earlier, but I promised Sally I would do everything I can to get her lynched. :p

EDIT: X-ed with the moddess. Oops. At least I got the final word.

Btw, I love you Sally. :D

[Kitanna]

Boy was that fun. I would've done it earlier, but I promised Sally I would do everything I can to get her lynched. :p
Missy, you were set on fire. Shhh. :p

[Kitanna]

Lommy's time was up. She stayed awake anxiously for hours after Brinn's death. As night wore she began to wonder if maybe the ranger was watching over her. That had to be it. Dawn was fast approaching and Brinn's companions hadn't appeared.

Lommy sighed with relief. She'd live to see another day. However, as Lommy climbed into her bed the door to her home open. She didn't hear it because she was already asleep, dreaming pleasantly. The three remaining wraiths crept into Lommy's room. The innkeeper's disguise had come off and now Butterbur had to die.

~*~*~

Lommy was found in the morning with her eyes caught out and her skull cracked open. The wraiths had nailed her eyes to the wall. Her brain had been removed hastily and with no real care, bits of it scattered the floor. No one could locate the wayward brain. It couldn't have escaped during the attack.

The villagers searched the entire house. Finally they came across a pie sitting on the kitchen table. It was red and had an unpleasant oder emitting from it. The wraiths had put Lommy's brain into a pie as a means of exacting their revenge from Brinn's death.

The Prancing Pony had lost its innkeeper and the village had lost its seer.

Living
satansaloser2005
Lariren Shadow
Mirandir
Legate of Amon Lanc
Rikae
Aganzir
Beregond
Nerwen
Rune Son of Bjarne
Macalaure
Meneltarmacil
A Little Green

Dead
Kitanna – Made an example of Night 1 (moddess)
Gollum the Great – Eaten by hogs Day 1 (innocent)
Shastanis Althreduin – Forced to swallow a sword Night 2 (innocent)
Durelin – Hanged on Day 2 (innocent)
Nogrod – Disemboweled and hanged by own intestines Night 3 (innocent)
Feanor of the Peredhil – Hoed to death Day 3 (innocent)
Brinniel – Set on fire and turned into Mrs. Lovett Day 4 (wraith)
Thinlómien – Brain forcibly removed and made into a treat Night 5 (Butterbur)

[satansaloser2005]

….emit eht lufituaeb si efil erehw ,snwoD worraB eht oT
!ahah ,yawa em ekat ot gnimoc er’yeht dnA
seot dna sbmuht sih selddiwt dna selims dna stis ohw lidabmoB dnA
sdrib gniprihc dna srewolf dna seert htiw ,snwoD worraB eht oT

!ahah ,yawa em ekat ot gnimoc er’yeht dnA
stoac etihw naelc rieht ni nem gnuoy ecin esoht ees ot yppah eb ll’I dnA
emit eht lla lufituaeb si efil erehw ,snwoD worraB eht oT
.ahah ,eheh ,ohoh ,yawa em ekat ot gnimoc er'yehT
!ahah ,yawa em ekat ot gnimoc er'yehT

....dnA !!!rees ytsan uoy ,eriomirG htohruaG-ni-loT eht ni uoy tup ll'yehT
od yeht nehw dna tey uoy dnif ll'yeht ,tiaw tsuj uoy lleW
??huH .sdeed gnivol hsiflesnu dnik ym lla rof
kcab em yap uoy who si siht dna ,eaF a dehcnyl I ,laever a dekaf I

!ahah ,yawa em ekat ot gnimoc er’yeht dnA
seot dna sbmuht rieht elddiwt dna elims dna tis ohw snniF gninnuc dnA
sdrib gniprihc dna srewolf dna seert htiw ,snwoD worraB eht oT
.ahah ,eheh ,ohoh ,yawa em ekat ot gnimoc er'yehT
!ahah ,yawa em ekat ot gnimoc er'yehT

....dnA....daed ylrettu m'I wonk uoy won tub ,no denoggawdnab dna dehcnyl dnA
dehgual uoy dehgual uoy ,hgual uoy draeh I ,dehgual uoy wonk I
???THGIR....dil ym pilf em ekam dluow dehcnyl gnitteg that
dias dah I nehw dehgual uoy ,dehgual uoy os dna ekoj a saw ti thguoht uoY

!!!!!!ahah ,yawa em ekat ot gnimoc er'yeht dnA
staoc etihw naelc rieht ni nem gnuoy ecin esoht ees ot yppah eb ll'I dnA
emit eht lla lufituaeb si efil erehw ,snwoD worraB eht oT
.ahah ,eheh ,ohoh ,yawa em ekat ot gnimoc er'yehT
!ahah ,yawa em ekat ot gnimoc er'yehT

….dnA….dnim ym fo tuo yletelpmoc enog ev’I
ees uoy won dna esrow dna esrow tog yaD eht neht dna wohyna detcarter uoY
….lleW ??kresreb og d’I esuaceb em rof etov ot ton uoy deggeb dnA
seenk ym no tog I dna delaever rees eht nehw rebmemeR


gnoS htiarW....mrE....nawS s'nnirB

[satansaloser2005]

I have a confession to make. Kit's been lying in the narrations all along.


I am the seer.

I am the ranger.

I am Ferny.

I am the cobbler.

I am the opera ghost.

I am the werebear.

I am the lover. *giggles as Emily, being the saucepan goose, agrees with this statement*

(Luke) I am your father.

I am a shirrifff.

I am a necromancer.

I am your representative. ("I believe in Sally". Buttons available on ebay.)

I am the Chaotic Neutral Wizard.

I am an agent of chaos. (Introduce a little anarchy. Vote for the moddess.)

I am the (happy) Medium.

I am the Hunter. (Actually, that's my computer's name, but meh.)

I am the village prostitute (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=571936&postcount=568).

I am the Balrog of Spring. (But I'm coming out with a fall line soon.)

I am the Walrus. (goo goo g'joob)

[satansaloser2005]

Brinn-->Sally at 8:38am
Menel-->Sally at 9:19am
Rikae-->Sally at 9:41am
Nerwen-->Sally at 10:06am
Berrie-->Sally at 10:07am
Legate-->Sally at 12:23pm
Greenie-->Sally at 2:40pm
Rune-->Sally at 3:16pm
Lommie-->Brinn at 3:16pm
Legate-->Brinn at 4:19pm
retraction of Legate-->Sally at 12:23pm
Agan-->Brinn at 4:21pm
Berrie-->Brinn at 4:26pm
retraction of Berrie-->Sally at 10:07am
Rikae-->Brinn at 5:31pm
retraction of Rikae-->Sally at 9:41am
Mira-->Brinn at 8:46pm
Mac-->Brinn at 10:37pm
Lari-->Sally at 10:43pm
Nerwen-->Brinn at 10:52pm
retraction of Nerwen-->Sally at 10:06am

Deadline of 12am, wraiths and innocents. Yes, this probably will be the extent of my helpfulness for the Day. I'm a nice girl, but I'm also evil. Be prepared.

[satansaloser2005]

Oh, come on people, post something!



No? Okay, you asked for it. *laughs maniacally*

[satansaloser2005]

SALLY:
(spoken) Dearest darlingest Brinnie and Gwathie-poo:

LOMMIE:
(spoken) My dear Ranger:

BOTH:
There's been some confusion
Over voting in the game

LOMMIE:
But of course, I'll dream of wolvsies

SALLY:
But of course, I'll kill around it

BOTH:
For I know that's how you'd want me to respond
(Spoken) Yes
There's been some confusion
For you see, the new girl (http://http://www.stlyrics.com/lyrics/wicked/whatisthisfeeling.htm) is

SALLY:
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar
And completely determined to lynch me

LOMMIE:
American.

SALLY:
What is this feeling,
So sudden and new?

LOMMIE:
I felt the moment
I laid eyes on you;

SALLY:
My claws are growing;

LOMMIE:
My dreams revealing;

SALLY:
The blood is flowing;

BOTH:
What is this feeling?
Fervid as a flame,
Does it have a name?
Yes! Voting
Unadulterated....near hate

SALLY:
For your posts

LOMMIE:
Your pic

SALLY:
Your Legate

BOTH:
Let's just say - I loathe it all
Ev'ry little post, however small
Makes my very flesh begin to crawl
With simple utter loathing
There's a strange exhilaration
In such total detestation
It's so pure, so strong!
Though I do admit it came on fast
Still I do believe that it can last
And I will be voting
Voting you
The whole game long!

WRAITH CHORUS:
Dearest Sally, you are just too good
How do you stand it? I don't think I could!
She's a dreamer! She's a neat one!
We don't mean to show a bias,
But, poor Sally, you're in deep, hun!

SALLY:
Well, these seers are sent to try us!

WRAITHS:
Poor lil Sally, forced out of control
By someone who's so good at her role
And to think that you were
So close to your goal!

WRAITHS:
We share your loathing
Unadulterated loathing
For her posts, her dreams, her voting
let's just say - we loathe it all
ev'ry little hint however fake
makes our very fur begin to shake

....
....
....
....

LOMMIE:
Dreamt!

SALLY:
CRAP!

[satansaloser2005]

Fine then. I'm off to do some homework, then to bed. I'm taking requests, by the way. And don't worry, I have lots more goodies for you! :)

*toddles off for now*

[satansaloser2005]

A is for Agan, who is always evil, no matter what.

B is for Beregond, who is also evil, but only because I say so and, as you know, I am currently one of the three top-rated experts on such matters.

C is for CailinEomer, who are not even in the game but are, believe it or not, wolves. Wraiths, whatever. Point is, they're evil.

D is for Durie whose role was a lie. She's really the village lynch fodder, who seems incredibly innocent yet is able to get lynched without the loud annoying wolf (that's me) having any sort of a hand in it. Poor kid.

E is for Eon. (See S for Steve.)

F is for Fea, who just keeps getting screwed over game after game. It makes me giggle muchly. I'm pretty sure she's sitting somewhere reading the game and rooting for the baddies. Serves you all right. *hugs her*

G is for Gwathie-poo. That is all. (Oh, and for Greenie, but I couldn't think of a good joke for her right off the spot)

H is for Hookbill the Goomba, who is amazing, just because he can be. That is also all.

I is for I'm going to bed. I'll continue this little lesson in the alphabet later, I assure you. And then maybe I'll do some stats!! :P

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Poor Lommy. Now, couldn't the Ranger have protected her... it's possible he couldn't.

But anyway, at least toDay's lynch is clear. But what about the next Days?

We have one known innocent - that'd be Mac.

What else? We should not just sit around and do nothing, even though toDay's vote is clear, yet toMorrow, we will be once again forced to make a choice of our own.

I know, I am tempted not to do anything either. But I guess I will force myself to take a look at least on somebody.

For example, who do you think is Mr.Underhill? We now have TWO wolves there, one of them being a former innocent.

(And Sally is being silly, but funny. :D )

[Meneltarmacil]

I'm going to be busy with studying and other things today, so I'll record my vote now:

++Sally

[Aganzir]

Ouch. Poor Lommy.

Some comments on yesterday.

I hate being suspicious of Mac all the time, especially as he's a known innocent now (unless he's the cobbler, of which I would not be very surprised, to be honest), but I don't like his lists yesterday. It isn't of much help if you list what people have done earlier and judge them by that. For example he didn't say a word about Greenie's yesterday behaviour but found her innocent only based on her interaction with the wolves on previous days, before the RB was turned.
Also, I don't understand his suggestion concerning Rikae. What do you mean with lack of sharpness? Because I haven't seen any. :p

I'm not overly fond of Lari's vote for sally after points had been brought up about Brinn's death being better, but she had little chance to save her, and I don't know if she would have been so obvious if she's a wolf, too.

**

++ sally

Legate, frustrating as it is I don't think we can assume Mac innocent just because Lommy dreamt of him. He could still be Ferny.

I was planning to take a look at Greenie but I think I'll wait till she posts a bit more. Also, Lari might be worth a look.

[Lariren Shadow]

Oh Lommy

But we do know who to lynch at least.

So

++Sally

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate, frustrating as it is I don't think we can assume Mac innocent just because Lommy dreamt of him. He could still be Ferny.

I know. But what we are clear on is, and what I meant to say, that he cannot be a Wraith by any means. That leaves less people to choose from.

Well, let's put it this way. We have one Wolf from start and one Wolf from yesterDay. YesterDay, the Wolves could not yet plot together at Night, but they likely already were informed of each other's identity. I suggest we talk even toDay. As much as we can. So that it does not look toMorrow like Day 1 all over again.

And,

++Sally

Off to read older posts - trying to look for the third Wolf, at least. Or for Frodo.

[satansaloser2005]

Be Prepared (for the reign of the wolf, precious)
[all Ferny's bits in parentheses]

I never thought a cobbler essential
Just an ordo who's not to be slain
But Ferny's got a glimmer of potential
If allied to my vision and brain

I know that his powers of retention
Are as wet as a penguin's backside
Useful though you are, pay attention
My words are a matter of pride

It's clear from your suggestions for night kills
The lights are not all on upstairs
But we're talking lyches and victory
Your options are far beyond compare

So prepare for a chance of a lifetime
Be prepared for sensational news
A victory's at hand, our ally
And where do you feature?
Just listen to Sally

I know it sounds sordid
But you'll be rewarded
When at last the village is dead
And the wraiths shall triumph again
Be prepared!

It's great that you'll soon be connected
With a team who'll be all-time adored

Of course, quid pro quo, you're expected
To take certain duties on board
The future is littered with prizes
And though we'll be victorious
The point that I must emphasize is
You won't get the ring without us!

So prepare for the game of the century
(Oooh!)
Be prepared for the murkiest scam
(Oooh... La! La! La!)
Meticulous planning
(I'll survive!)
Tenacity spanning
(Stay alive!)
Decades of denial
(I repeat!)
Is simply why we'll
(My heart'll still beat!)
Be winners unchallenged
(Aaaaaaah...)
Brinn's (and Sally's) death avenged
(...aaaaaaah...)
And seen for the wonder we are
(...aaaaaaah!)
Yes, my teeth and ambitions are bared
(Oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-oo-oo)
Be prepared!

Yes, our teeth and ambitions are bared
Be prepared!

[Macalaure]

The formality first:

++Sally

It sucks we couldn't get another dream out of Lommy. I agree with Legate, it's quite possible that she was already protected last night.

I hate being suspicious of Mac all the time, especially as he's a known innocent now (unless he's the cobbler, of which I would not be very surprised, to be honest), but I don't like his lists yesterday. It isn't of much help if you list what people have done earlier and judge them by that. For example he didn't say a word about Greenie's yesterday behaviour but found her innocent only based on her interaction with the wolves on previous days, before the RB was turned.

I did judge them by what they said yesterDay, too, but I don't find Lily's behaviour yesterDay suspicious. I did concentrate on the original wraith, because I think it was too early yesterDay to really find out Frodo. Since toDay it is easy to get away with little posting (we should look after those who try to), it might be that only toMorrow we will have actual clues. I hope the ranger will do a better job on me...

I have four people left to look at toDay, and I will use the same approach.


It's clear from your suggestions for night kills
The lights are not all on upstairs

I know I probably shouldn't even talk about her toDay, but this seems to imply that Ferny only gave them the names of ordos, if not of the wraiths themselves yet. Not that we can deduce anything from that, but it's good to know s/he's useless (at least in that aspect). Of course, Sally could just be joking...

[Rikae]

I am the Walrus. (goo goo g'joob)

I almost posted that yesterday. :mad:

For that, you die!

++Sally

Now, I have something useful I want to do toDay (make a certain chart of everybody still living and what they did in various situations), but first I want to attend to grad school business, so it'll be a while.

Something I want to say about the old ball and chain... ahem... better half, I mean:

if he is Ferny, the wraiths almost certainly know it (remember his "send own name on night 2" business?) and won't kill him. If he isn't dead soon, (soon enough that we avoid the risk of an evil vote from him ruining everything for the village) he needs to go.

*searches Ebay for a stylish black dress*

:smokin:

More about everybody else later.

[Aganzir]

I can't help being bothered by this comment in Lari's first post:
As for my sign I am a Sagittarius which actually does say a lot more about me than it should.
Shasta had just said the baddies are under the influence of Fire and Sagittarius is a Fire sign. It looks awfully much like a hint, either to Ferny or the wraiths.

She suggested Frodo should reveal soonish so we could lynch xem. I still don't understand why Frodo should have been lynched if xe had revealed. It would have been a waste of both a lynch & a known innocent.
She also seemed to assume, though, that the ranger can protect the same person every night. Well yes if she had said it later than on day 1, it'd make her look more innocent, but I don't know how likely it is that the wolves discuss the ranger's qualities already on night 1, before the game has even started, so I'd assume it's an honest mistake regardless of her role.

She concluded Ferny is not a threat at all, just an annoying player, as xe doesn't know the roles of the people xe passes on. I disagree. If the seer dreamt of Ferny, she saw xem as an innocent, which means xe'd be more or less trusted as long as xe is alive. And if alive for long enough, Ferny can be of considerable help to the wolves.

On day 1 Lari considered voting me ("she will never trust me again"), Fea ("who doesn't like a good Fea vote on day 1?"), Dury (the fact that her character was a ranger made Lari think it'd be interesting if Kit had made her a wolf), or Lommy ("for reasons stated before"). Okay it was day 1 but still those reasons look a bit strange, especially the last two. It just doesn't make much sense that she considered voting Dury because of that.
As for Lommy, the reasons stated before were apparently stated by others as I don't think Lari herself talked about Lommy. Shasta voted Lom because of her voting me, Mira voted her because her flip-flopping bothered her, Dury because she found her sneaky. But that's pretty much all. So what reasons were you talking about, Lari?

On the other hand, she did forget Brinn from her list. This would point towards her being innocent at least then. Or then it's a bluff, but somehow it doesn't look like so. Although I guess it's possible, though very unlikely, that a wolf would forget to include her fellow...
She had sally listed as a No Idea, but she specifically mentioned she was watching her (but nothing had happened yet). Out of the six people on the list, she elaborated only on her and Gollum. I think it looks a bit like a wraith-on-wraith comment.

She wanted to prevent a double lynch (despite not being sure if they're even possible) and voted Dur. Mac had 4 votes, Brinn & Lommy 3, Gollum 2, she and me 1. She could have voted Lommy or me, who she had said she could consider, as it was almost an hour till deadline and several people were still to vote/retract.
Hmm a bit later she said her vote was pretty much random, and by preventing a double lynch she meant not voting Lommy.

**

Then day 2.

Lari agreed with Mira that the end of day 1 was suspicious. She could understand Mac but found some others suspicious. So, what was actually suspicious about it? Mac wanted to save himself and others didn't want to kill him either. Also, by voting someone who already had votes she could have contributed to the outcome of the lynch.
Later she talked more about the voting, vaguely accusing Mac also of suspecting only three people, and Nerwen because of her vote. What was suspicious about her vote then?

She also thought Nog's criticism towards day 1 votes was weird. I can agree because I found it strange as well.

Okay another list. Nothing had caught her eye about sally, who seemed genuinely innocent. Brinn seemed innocent enough, too - nothing jumped out. I can't accuse her of finding Brinn innocent because I did, too.
However her summary includes quite many "could be or could be not" people.
She was suspicious of Rikae (didn't like her seer/Frodo bantering), me (playing it rather interestingly. What did you mean with that?), Nerwen (didn't like her vote), and Mac (not entirely innocent because of trying to save himself).

She didn't have anything on Durelin, apart from thinking Kit could have made her a wolf & not liking her first post. In her next post she suggested Dury could be Frodo trying to join the wraith team by impersonating the ranger.
She wondered why so many seemingly wanted to lynch Fea and added that she wasn't defending her. If Fea had turned out to be a baddie, it wouldn't look very good on her, but now I guess it's just that she really didn't understand it.
In the end she voted Durelin since she thought Kit would have made her a wolf because of her character. She didn't mention anything about accusations of Dury's ranger show, which I think was the major reason she was suspected in the first place. I don't really like her vote. Especially as we don't know how Kit picked the roles.

**

Day 3.

She asked if Nog's death could be an attempt to frame Fea, and added that of course we should look at Fea nonetheless. Well yes Fea was framed. It's possible she's an innocent speculating or a wraith giving off something from their nightly plotting.

Also, Lari suggested me & Lommy's quarrel could be a way to cover our wolfishness. It wasn't, it's just us playing together (luckily our brawls never affect our RL relationship - we are friends again once we log out).

She said she's fine with lynching Fea, but would maybe want to lynch Mac (been saved twice) or Rikae (something in her posts makes her wonder) even more. Well Mac is not a wolf and I'm feeling pretty good about Rikae as well (I don't think she's looked wolfish even after the RB was turned). Also, if the wolves thought Fea was the cobbler, they might have wanted to lynch someone else. It's impossible to say if they did think so, though, as they have information about the cobbler that we other's don't.
Greenie accused Lari of trying to save Fea with her Dur vote but it doesn't really matter because Fea was innocent.

Then Lari asked if the wolves get a new kill if their original target is protected. I admit this is a fairly innocent-looking question.
She also noted that if the seer dreamt of Ferny, the result was an ordo.

When Mac noted how Lari went from defending Fea to being neutral towards her to being okay with lynching her quite quickly, she responded by saying she doesn't want to die. According to her, there was a high chance it'd be between her and Fea. I don't see it quite like that. Fea was so suspected that it was practically impossible someone else had been lynched, while wolves tend to overestimate suspicions against them.

Okay then she's suspicious of Mac and Rune (who was intentionally a part of the Dury bandwagon & wanted to save Fea). Originally she was suspicious of Mac for being saved from lynching. I do agree that Mac is suspicious but he can't be anything worse than the cobbler, and those seem to be rather weak reasons for such constant suspicion, anyway.

Okay then there's some confusion about Ferny, which also makes Lari look more innocent because the cobbler is certainly a thing the wolves have been talking about even if they didn't discuss the ranger.

And what if Fea turns out to be innocent? How does that look for me? Who then looks bad? Rune for defending her? Mac and Rikae for pointing out quickly that she could be Ferny?
Somehow this comment looks quite fishy to me. Like, she's in a way making herself look better and swaying suspicion towards others she's suspicious of. Can't explain it better.

In #563 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=583222&postcount=563) she listed who she could vote for - Fea, Rune, and Mac. She was the least confident about Fea but everyone else thought her guilty. Voted Mac, who made lists which showed only a few people guilty. I don't really see what's suspicious in that.

**

Day 4, after the RB turning into a wraith & the seer reveals.

Lari has 37 posts, only three of which she has written yesterday or today.

She claimed she didn't know what to think of the seer reveals as both Lomz & Brinn listed two known dead innocents and each other. Mac was on Lommy's list too.
This is rather interesting because Mac had been one of her main suspects and now she accidentally calls him a known innocent.

While she did leave the comment in her post about rings, would it be so impossible for the wolves/wraiths to turn Frodo and then throw Frodo to us in a way to save themselves?
What did you mean with this?

She voted sally, saying she seemed like a safe bet, although by then the general consensus seemed to be that Brinn was a better target as her death would remove all confusion about the seer.

**

And today when she just voted sally.

**

I don't know what to make of her earlier posts. She seemed rather suspicious at times and very innocent at others and it's really impossible for me to say anything.

However I think she could be Frodo. Well she started posting much less once Frodo was turned, but that could also be because of some RL hurries. However that Mac slip doesn't look innocent. If she wasn't sure who to trust, why did she call Mac a known innocent?
She being Frodo might also explain that weird Sagittarius comment on day 1. She might have wanted to leave a hint for the wolves, although that isn't very straightforward.

**

Sorry this is so long, I don't know what has happened to me. :D

[Aganzir]

:D:D sally that's simply awesome!

I did concentrate on the original wraith, because I think it was too early yesterDay to really find out Frodo.
Why? When you posted those lists, everyone alive had already posted. Okay it's true there might not have been enough information to incriminate anyone, but still. Was it too early to even try?

Not that we can deduce anything from that, but it's good to know s/he's useless (at least in that aspect).
:D This comment really made me laugh.

if he is Ferny, the wraiths almost certainly know it (remember his "send own name on night 2" business?) and won't kill him. If he isn't dead soon, (soon enough that we avoid the risk of an evil vote from him ruining everything for the village) he needs to go.
I thought about that too yesterday, but found it better not to mention it as I thought the wraiths could force us to lynch a known innocent by just leaving him alive even if he is not the cobbler.

I realised I forgot to check Lari's interaction with sally & Brinn when making my analysis. Off to do it now.

[Aganzir]

Just at the beginning of day 1 sally said that clearly our top suspects are Lari & Gollum as she found the body and he is a weapons expert.
On day 1 Lari was one of Brinn's several voting options. Sally, on the other hand said she wouldn't vote Lari. Nothing she had said had looked suspicious and especially as I had said that my vote was random, she hoped no one would go along with it. I'd imagine she wanted to keep a bit more distance if Lari was her fellow but I don't know.

On day 2 Brinn made some wishy-washy statements about Lari, saying her vote was throwaway but it actually isn't that suspicious, and nothing about Lari jumps at her but she's wary because she played a brilliant wolf last game. She was listed as a No Clue.

On day 3 Brinn said that Lari's defences seem shoddy. Especially she seemed to find it weird that Lari was concerned about being voted. She was listed as suspicious, along with Fea and sally. Somehow I doubt Brinn would have suspected both her fellows like that, given that Lommy was already suspicious of her and sally. Why bring the last wolf under the spotlight?

Okay and then it's day 4 and it's impossible to say anything anymore as Lommy had already come out when Brinn & sally started posting.
On her last list Brinn listed Lari as Not sure, but I rather doubt we can make anything of that list.

I find it quite unlikely now that Lari is a normal wraith. It just doesn't make sense that Brinn would have labeled both her and sally guilty, especially as her own survival was still uncertain, what with Lommy breathing on her neck.

I don't know why the wraiths would have gone after Lari, either, as I think she started to be suspected to some extent. Unless they had a strong reason to assume she was Frodo and wanted to turn her before she got to reveal. I didn't see anything that could have indicated that, though, besides maybe the Sagittarius comment.

Now I'm off to do something else.

[Macalaure]

A (sobering) thought about Frodo before I start looking closely at Mirandir and Rune (and continue cleaning up the mess the kids made in the kitchen): his wraithification couldn't have happened at a better time. It is just too obvious what Frodo had to do yesterDay and toDay. Unless he was foolish, he did not question Lommy's claim and went with Brinn or Sally instantly (could have actually voted later, of course). ToDay, it's voting Sally and looking decently helpful (or having an excuse not to be). ToMorrow, two days will have passed since his switch, and with everything that will have happened in between, you can pretty much innocentish-lookingly justify any change in opinion. A change in behaviour is really all we can look for, unless Frodo made a mistake, but changes in behaviour are difficult to detect and it's easy to accidentally lynch an innocent for it.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Not much have happened today I see. . .

I am feeling much better now, but is still sleeping alot of the time...I don't think I have the energy to read through the posts of last day, so I will focuse my energy on what happens today.

obviously it is not chritical that I contribute a great deal to day, but I think I have to contribute a bit in order not to loose touch with the game.

[satansaloser2005]

A (sobering) thought about Frodo before I start looking closely at Mirandir and Rune (and continue cleaning up the mess the kids made in the kitchen): his wraithification couldn't have happened at a better time. :Merisu:

It is just too obvious what Frodo had to do yesterDay and toDay. Unless he was foolish, he did not question Lommy's claim and went with Brinn or Sally instantly (could have actually voted later, of course). ToDay, it's voting Sally and looking decently helpful (or having an excuse not to be). ToMorrow, two days will have passed since his switch, and with everything that will have happened in between, you can pretty much innocentish-lookingly justify any change in opinion. A change in behaviour is really all we can look for, unless Frodo made a mistake, but changes in behaviour are difficult to detect and it's easy to accidentally lynch an innocent for it.

You used British spellings. As we all know, anyone who's not American doesn't have his head screwed on properly.

...What? I'm going to die anyway, may as well die for as many different reasons as possible!


EDIT: yes, this post is Emily too. Just for clarification's sake. :D

[satansaloser2005]

Seriously, don't read it. It is intended to deliberately waste your time, flood the thread, and otherwise make your life more difficult. If you dislike this, well, maybe you shouldn't have all retracted your votes yesterday.

I am letting you know this to give you sufficient warning when this and subsequent madness ensues.

*foams at the mouth*

Oh, and I am not sally. Hmm... maybe I should write a memoir and call it that... then rerelease it years later with the title "I am sally"... and then "I am not not sally"

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Just a few random thoghts:

Legate and Aganzir seems very innocent, in the way that I agree with most of what they say and that they in genneral do not seem to fabricate cases.

Menel plays like he always do, he does not leave much for you to analyse on and is very hard judge. I guess I get a mostly innocent feel from him, but that is often the case with the more silent players. (unless it is people who normally talk alot)

[satansaloser2005]

It's really quite simple, O Breelanders. Allow me to explain my logic.

Frodo was stabbed in the night. By the morning he became a wraith. Now, with all other things remaining constant, if this were book!Frodo there would have been enough of a fight for him not to be stabbed in the heart, no? And if so we would have about thirteen days before he was actually turned. But we know narration-wise that this is NOT, I repeat, NOT the case, and that it happened in about 12 hours or so instead. Moreover no cries of "A Elbereth Gilthoniel!" were heard in the night, only strange "Aaaaaack" sort of noises.

Therefore I posit that our Ringbearer is NOT book!Frodo, but his Jacksonian counterpart, who was even more wussy than normal and thus didn't hold out long enough for Arwen: Warrior Princess to get some extra screentime.

So: which among you has luminous blue eyes that make everyone else want to get lost in your Impending Victimhood?

[A Little Green]

Here at last. I thought I'd have nothing special to do today but apparently I had since now is the first time I got anywhere near a computer (that was not occupied by a certain Lomzy).

First of all,

++Sally

Then to other business. I had some ideas at the end of yesterDay but I've probably forgotten them by now. List coming up.

Is there anyone around? I'd like a chat with someone.


EDIT: x-ed with Sally

[satansaloser2005]

Is there anyone around? I'd like a chat with someone.

OOH! OOH! PICK ME! PICK ME!:D

[A Little Green]

Sally - wraith.
Lari - I'm flip-flopping about her a lot. One minute I suspect her, the other I find her innocent.
Mira - No idea.
Leggy - Seems very innocent this far.
Rikae - Seems innocent, but could also be a bold and brilliant wolf. I'd love to have a look at her but I'm afraid that's too big a task for me tonight.
Aganzir - Seems innocent.
Gondie - Nothing alarming.
Nerwen - No idea.
Rune - Seems innocent.
Mac - Innocent / Ferny. I find it more likely that he's innocent.
Menel - No read whatsoever. I could look at him tonight, since checking through his posting won't be as huge a task as checking Rikae...

*Off to read*

[satansaloser2005]

This is the post that goes into the gamethread.
This is the gamethread, so this is where it goes,
Has nothing to do with the gameplay, so I'll say--
Hey, hey, hey-hey hey hey hey hey!

I used to make a post that went into the gamethread
That went with the gameplay, but this is not that post.
Has nothing to do with the gameplay, so I'll say--
Hey, hey, hey-hey hey hey hey hey!

Wouldn't it be nice if this post, within the gamethread
Had something to do with the game that you are in?
But that's not the case, so for now I'll have to say--
Hey, hey, hey-hey hey hey hey hey!

There ought to be a rule that the posts within a gamethread
Remotely pertain to the game's basic plot!
That rule has not been made*, so for now I'll have to say--
Hey, hey, hey-hey hey hey hey hey!


















DISCLAIMER:
Actually, it has, at least outside of the game. Please don't Skwerl me, Esty. *wibble*

[satansaloser2005]

The next post will be an experimental one, pertaining to the basic state of the Human Condition and the Journey* of Mankind.


*pronounced "Jeeeeeeeeeeeuuuuuurney"

[satansaloser2005]

_

[Macalaure]

Mirandir

In #92 she's one of the few to defend me after my supposed Ferny slip. The only others to do so was Rikae (explicably) and the next day wraith Brinn. This could either mean nothing, or that she's a wraith who thought I'm Ferny, or that she's Ferny thinking she got a hint from the wraiths.

Not to further the idea that Lari and I are aligned, but I have a tendency to play devil's advocate.

This could be interpreted as a cobbler hint. If so, then maybe she thought Lari was a wraith. She voted Lommy in the end, which, as Aganzir said, points against her being a wraith.

On Day2, she gives a shady opinion on Brinniel. In the same post she encourages discussion about the ranger. This is something that could have happened to a newbie ordo, but it looks suspicious nevertheless. She also says that Fea can confuse people and later willingly lets herself be confused. What if the cobbler had the idea that Fea was a wraith at this point? S/he would act like Mirandir did.

Later she goes after Rune and votes for him.

Her response to Agan's case looks innocentish. #678, however, could be interpreted as a slip. She votes for Brinn.


What she's been doing could easily point toward a newbie ordo. However, a lot would fit in with cobblerdom just too neatly. Her guilt would make Rune look good.