Tol-in-Gaurhoth LVII - Chess Game for Middle Earth: Game Thread

[wilwarin538]

Well this is iterrible, it's too bad Eomer is gone so soon, he makes the game so interesting, and then Nerwen being the Rook is aweful, don't like the idea that we lost a gifted plus there are all these gifted baddies. Makes me very uneasy. :(

Don't have a lot to say right now, I've caught up on everything but I'm in a bit of a rush at the moment, I should be back in a few hours to give a new list on my opinions of everyone and such. I've already seen a few things here and there that I don't like, I'll clarify on all that when I get back. Just wanted to let you all know I was around.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Paraphrased, because you guys talk too much. :p

Sally- Black Rook
Durelin- White Knight
Mnem- WereDuck
phantom- Sauron

Mnemo - ducks have been proven to be evil in the past, I'll go with that!
Sally - oh definitely evil.
phantom - clearly a pawn trying to get to the other side of the board by making himself look important.
Izzy - erm, fiery depths? Not keen!
Brinn - I think innocent, therefore guilty.
Eomer - definitely innocent, at least for as long as it takes to see what this new persona is about.
Nerwen - thoughtful.

Sally: nothing to say on her but the usual uneasiness.
Brinn: nothing of any special interest; Perfectly innocent sounding and therefore all alarms should be on as it’s Brinn!
Eomer: looks cryptic but speaks sense.
Nerwen: should be more verbiose when she comes in the next time.
Kath’s post is just downright terrible. I could consider voting her just on principle for that; she feels a need to underline the randomness of her vote? If she's innocent that's irresponsible behaviour - and if not, then the sooner we lynch her the better.

Mirandir’s and Gwath’s appearances are just awful. Which means: nothing. If one of you is a baddie and you both get through Day1 with that effort we deserve to lose
Wilva’s “be prepared for me to bandwagon” is just odd pre-empting of what’s possibly to come.
Eönwë and Lari are enigmas to me right now.

Fea: After not saying practically anything toDay she makes a "eenie-meenie-miny" -vote, which behaviour I still dislike a lot.
Dury: wishes some people to be lynched but decides to be as random as possible picking someone with guts and then trying to explain it away both ways (like it's nothing & sorry Sally).
Eönwë: If you had a reason to vote for Gwath, why do you say it's "semi-random" then? What's the matter with all of you?
Eomer: Finally someone giving reasons for his vote... Although... Now it looks a bit too convenient vote to my taste. You're careful not to suspect others but just imply you have seen similar behaviour around to look good and not to get anyone on you to retaliate.

Mirandir - She should have more time to make her presence felt - but if she's not going to do it later toDay ot ToMorrow I'd be glad to vote her out. But probably not toDay.
Durelin - One of my all-time enigmas. I find her vote the most confusing. She could do a bit better as a baddie and be like that in a rush and innocent. - feels foul.
Fea- She's intelligent enough to make better claims on Day1 so a frustrated innocent then? No. The note about me saying interesting things (when there were no other commnets on anyone else in the vote-post) bothers me a lot.
Isabellkya - If there is a submarine-baddie she's one of my top candidates for that role. Somehow my gut-feeling just tells the contrary at the moment.
Nerwen - I don't see the suspicions around her but wouldn't trust her either.
Eomer of the Rohirrim - Speaks sense which is highly appreciated. Still his vote left me a bit concerned about his motives.
the phantom - Let's see his track-record on Day3 or something if he's still around.
Brinniel - not my top worry right now.
satansaloser2005 - no special alarms as yet.
Gwathagor - I'd like to see him post more to be sure but will not vote him toDay.
Lariren Shadow - I really suspect her. But I'm not too sure about it.
wilwarin538 - I think she should have a chance for another Day at least.
Rikae - I'm not going to vote Rikae on Day1 unless I have strong reasons to do so. And as now I don't seem to have one.
Eönwë - A hunker-down baddie who wants to make a presence or just an ordo with nothing to say?
Mnemosyne - Looking at her posts closer makes me feel better of her. I mean her alliances.
Kath - I could vote for her just because of the way she acts - and it's not only a principle at work here but also the particular way she did it this time.
Hansy - Maybe he's the cobbler, maybe he's not.

Hansy. seems too confused about the rules of the current game to be a wolf (are we calling them wolves?), and probably too flamboyant to be the Black Queen. Might be the Black Pawn... in fact, he reminds me a lot of Lal when she was a cobbler.
Rikae: seems awfully opportunistic after I'd just been given the first vote of the Day, and that a completely random one.
Kath. Would an innocent Kath vote like that? But then, would an evil Kath vote like that?

Mira: I think she is innocent
Durelin: Not sure
Fea: She could be the seer, but I don't think that's her style.
Isabellkya: not much to go on
Nerwen: Hasn't said a lot and I can see that's been because of the lack of internet.
Eomer: He has been making sense.
the phantom: could be a lot of help later in the game.
Brinn: I have no idea. I don't think I'm good at reading her though.
Sally: I can’t really get a good read on her.
Gwath: I wish I had more to say about people.
Wilwa: Really truly want something to be able to say.
Rikae: the Seer banter with Fea could be two Wolves trying to communicate. Or it could be innocents just playing around, which is entirely possible considering.
Eonwe: Nothing.
Nog: Has posted an analysis of the posting pages which points to guilt because it’s easy to find fault where there is none in analysis.
Syne: I think that you warrent watching.
Kath: Blah stupid Day 1.
Hansy: Newbie.

Rikae brings up good points/questions in regards to the Cobbler.
Hansy and phantom discuss mechanics.
Mnemosyne makes a good point that we look at both the wolves and the bear; while not at the expense of on, in favor of the other.
Gwath says we ought to focus on neither/both in regards to the wolves and the bear.
Mira and Mnemosyne wonder about Hansy's playing experience, and whether or not he may be playing up the newbie card.
Hansy. I'm not yet worried about him.

Sally- I'm afraid she's the "easy lynch" this time.
Nerwen, Hansy or Gwath I would be very reluctant to aid lynching toDay either.

Fea feels fine. Rikae too.
Nog- I would lean innocent for him.
Eomer -what he has said thus far has been to my liking.
Mnem- hasn't done anything to make me wish her dead .

Isabell- off my vote-list toDay
Lari looked reasonable
Kath, Fea, Dury and Eönwë. The three first trying to slip under the radar with nonsense and randomness and Eönwë for showing a presence with nothing to say in concrete terms.

phantom, Nog, Rikae, Fea, and Sally stick out most in my mind, because of their typical behavior.
Sally for silliness,
phantom, Rikae, and Fea because they always seem to be the more daring.
Nog because I can always expect to see long analyzing posts from him.
Mnemosyne, Gwath, and Hansy stick out in my mind.
Hansy- I've played with him elsewhere, and curious to see how he does and likes this style.
Mnemosyne and Gwath- something just doesn't seem quite right.

Eönwë "easy option" toDay (alongside Sally); the way he is at the top of the posting-list and has managed to say nothing definitive or particular bothered me.
Rikae- I have no case against Rikae, but her vote clearly fits in with a clever-baddie wishing to get away with Day1 quite nicely.
Kath I'm afraid I'd be going on with a habit of suspecting her
Dury her voting post is just so crazy (three different and almost exclusive reasons given at the same time + trying to apologise afterwards) that it might speak more of her being in a hurry and with no stakes in the game than actually being a baddie.
Fea played it safe + there was this odd addenda in her votepost that I couldn't read as anything other than as a way of trying to contact someone she thought she could gain from.

Mirandir: don't really have a feel yet
Durelin: inclined to keep him around
Fea: safe.....for toDay atleast
Izzy: I'm inclined to think innocent so far
Nerwen: Seems to be thinking logically
Eomer: I'm gonna give him a chance, he's definitely entertaining
the phantom: is safe toDay for me
Brinniel: not sure yet, a maybe perhaps, on my list
Sally: got voted for twice already, had computer difficulties, I understand that, won't be holding it against her today
Gwathagor: I don't know about him either, but he's on my list.
Lariren: Focused on roles alot, though so did most, but posted a fairly lengthy post so I'm inclined to let her be for now
Rikae: I have a good feeling about her, like her style, for now
Eonwe: not sure, on my list
Nogrod: seems innocently enough
Mnemo: Confusing, but he's a noobie
Kath: random vote for Nerwen isn't exactly like her, though it makes me uneasy I'd like to give her another day
Hansy: new so I'm willing to keep him around

Mirandir: I need more time and more from her to get a better read.
Durelin: She is one to watch closely, but I'd rather not see her go just yet.
Fea: I don't have any strong opinions about her as of now.
Izzy: no reason to vote her.
Nerwen: neutral
Eomer: Too mysterious for me to form an opinion on him just yet.
the phantom: seems innocentish to me. That probably means that he is, in fact, guilty.
Sally: looks more innocentish than guilty to me
Gwathagor: I just don't like when someone votes for another only based on another player's reasoning.
Lariren: Has been very thoughtful. I feel good about her so far.
wilwarin: So I'd rather not see her go anytime soon.
Rikae: Not raising any alarm right now.
Eonwe: a bit suspicious, though it's a bit early to tell.
Nogrod: But if innocent, he can be quite helpful, so I'd rather not see him go so early again. Plus, I do feel a bit guilty that I was partially responsible for his last two early deaths.
Nemo: I can't help but feel slightly worried about her. I won't vote her toDay because she is a new addition, but she is one I'd like to watch closely.
Kath: She's voted randomly before and it doesn't point to either innocence or guilt.
Hansy: could be anything.

Okay. That took a while. And it's going to take me a while to go back through again and find anything important.

Remember I'm looking for patterns. All of these are from Day 1 which means that two people were dreamed of (unless the White Queen gets dreams too; I hate not knowing the nature of a role), and there ought to be hints in here. Lists, as people well know, are a good way to figure out somebody's sincerity and somebody's inclinations.

Be back after lunch... sugar crash again...

[Nogrod]

As I saw that tp had already taken the task of cleaning the game board, I have spent my day polishing you pieces. And how nicely you shine now! :)

Okay. We really need to get that Black Queen, pronto. I don't know if there's any way or method to it as it would be really easy to hide being there alone. Well, I say look at the most agreeable people; those who are the least controversial as in a tough place one tends to not vote for the one whom s/he feels more at ease with or who rubs you the right way. And the BQ has all the chances to play like that as she shouldn't know anything more than we do.

I mean the trio knows each other and may be tempted to cover each other in a tight place or anyhow take stance on people whose role they know. And that normally gives one leads into suspecting someone. But to stop this double-killing we'd need to get all the three first! :eek:

So the BQ would be top on our agenda. The problem being that finding her out is more up to luck than our abilities. And meanwhile the trio gets knowledge everyNight by their bishop...

Well, let's heighten our spirits a bit.

Short count says that if we get all the three wolves in succesive Days beginning toDay, we're rid of the wolves and will only have one kill / Night after Day4. At that point - with no special help (eg. BQ killing one of the baddies for us, the Knight protecting someone succesfully...) we'll start Day5 with 6:1 ratio - which is not too bad.

But if we miss a single baddie during the next three Days the ratio becomes pretty tight. One miss in the following Days leads to the ratio of 4:2 on the beginning of Day5! Missing the lynch then would practically mean defeat.

So, summa summarum: of the next four lynches we basically have to lynch right three times. Otherwise we're dead meat (unless lady Fortuna aids us during the Nights). Unless we get the BQ... Nice scenario, isn't it? :rolleyes:

I'm trying to go back and see whether there is anything worth pointing out in posting toDay & on the votes etc. from yesterDay.

[Rikae]

Where is everyone?

Fea, the list you listed as being listed by Fea is by Nog. ;)

Lari, what do you mean, you shouldn't defend your vote?

Seriously, people, we all need to talk. Back in a bit with something (hopefully) more helpful.

[Nogrod]

I'm not sure if we should dwell too much on this but I got an idea while having a cigarette I think should be voiced as well so that everyone's aware of the possibility.

So two people died last Night. The one killed by the BQ and the other by the wolf team. Or is it so? Maybe this time, but maybe not every Night?

Looking at the disadvantage of the village from the beginning I have somehow thought all the time that the role of the WQ will involve an ability to do personal kills at Night as well. It would be a double-edged sword and some would use it very sparingly - but then others... I happen to remember my own game a long time back where Anguirel had this special Night-killing ability and he killed someone every Night of the game and finally championed the good ones to victory killing more baddies singlehanded than the village did with their lynches...

So looking at motives behind the kills last Night and further down the road should probably include an "baddie-motive-error-factor" - like later in the game if someone tries to fit the kills together and doesn't seem to get the pieces in order it might be that our WQ has something to do with them and not only the baddies...

Okay, now back to the data...

[Rikae]

Ah, but another thought:

Not sure why Nog is bemoaning the bleakness of the scenario like that. After all, the wolves and werebear could very well kill each other, the WQ may be able to kill them, and the ranger's chances of stopping a kill go up every night.
I would say it's extremely unlikely that no baddies will die by night in the next 3 days and they will manage to kill two innocents per night... at any rate, there are simply too many variables to predict the state of things on day 5. :rolleyes: Maybe you're trying to rally people not to waste the lynch, which is reasonable enough, but painting the situation as nearly hopeless will just demoralize the village.

EDIT: X'd with Noggie.
A pretty far-fetched theory, and one that might help the evil side. I doubt Shasta would fail to make it clear, in that case, which role was responsible for which kill.

[Nogrod]

Fea, the list you listed as being listed by Fea is by Nog.Right. How come half of the quotes are from me... :rolleyes:

Now c'mon and play a bit more openly people! Everyone just lurking at the corners and avoiding attention will give us only lotteries in the end of the Day instead of a decent possibility to find out the baddies by looking at what people really think - or want us think they think.

Like Rikae said: discussion, please!

[Nogrod]

Maybe you're trying to rally people not to waste the lynch, which is reasonable enough, but painting the situation as nearly hopeless will just demoralize the village.I was painting it as hopeless in an ironic tune. I'm not sure if I managed it - seemingly not. But the real point was, as you say, rallying people to get into this and not to think that as we have so many people around we can just look and see what happens.

I doubt Shasta would fail to make it clear, in that case, which role was responsible for which kill.I don't think that is anything like evident. It could well be that it is not revealed, at least openly.

Looking at the kills this far... Shasta - Ke3xe4, Night 1 (Moderator)
Gwathagor - d3xe4 (Lynched), Day 1 (White Pawn)
Eomer of the Rohirrim - Qd8xh4 (Killed), Night 2 (White Pawn)
Nerwen - Bc8xa6 (Killed), Night 2 (White Rook)... might hint that last Night's kills were done by the baddies as the starting positions of the killers are Qd8 and Bc8 meaning the black opening side. But the lynch yesterDay was made from d3 meaning a pawn from d3 which exactly isn't anyone's starting position in a game of chess anyway - and neither is the killing of Shasta in the beginning (Ke3). So the initial position of a piece clearly is not the thing grants us firm knowledge of who the move-maker is as the possible position of the pieces in the board is not the opening set up anyway * (we don't even have all the pieces in the game to begin with), and if it's not, we have no way of telling what the board looks like and which piece is where.

Okay. Like I said, this is just an idea and we might need to revisit it on later Days if trying to figure out the reasoning behind the kills will give us problems but right now I'm not sure this merits too much pondering as it's immeadiate helpfulness toDay is doubtful.

EDIT: * and the killed piece seems to have been way out from it's initial position everytime someone has been killed...

[wilwarin538]

Alrighty, I'm back and I have re-read everything! Wow. K, so here's my list, with a rating from 1-10 (1 being snow white innocent, 10 being pitch black guilty, in my eyes), it has changed a lot from yesterDay, just cause I hadn't been as thorough yesterDay, so here it is:

Mirandir: Didn't say too much so she makes me uneasy, I find it interesting that she kept up so well with the vote tallys and yet wasn't able to vote. 8

Durelin: Not much to go on I find, so she too makes me a bit uneasy, I'm willing to hold off a bit though on her. 6

Fea: Is Fea, so I will wait til later to try and sort out exactly how I feel, so I can see more from her. 5

Izzy: Not really getting any negative vibes from her, so I'm gonna go with thinking innocent for now. 3

the phantom: He seems normal tp to me, so yet another neutral for me. 5

Brinn: I didn't like her yesterDay, but I'll admit I hadn't read her posts thoroughly, after re-reading them a bit I've come to be more comfortable with her, even though her vote did bring Gwath into the tie, but still don't see anything too baddie from her for now. 3

Sally: not much substance from her I find, but according to what people have said about her that's normal for her, so I don't really know, though my gut doesn't like her. 7

Lariren: I find she goes in circles a bit, seems to be tip-toeing and agreeing. So she makes me a bit unsure, but not necessarily all out suspicious. 6

Rikae: I'm fairly comfortable with her so far, I haven't seen anything suspicious. 3

Eonwe: Still don't like him very much, but he said he wouldn't be aroud toDay so I don't think I'll be voting for him again. 7

Nogrod: Talks alot, that makes me just as uneasy as the ones who never post. So I really don't know yet, I'll need to read all his many posts one more time to really get a feel, but so far not liking it. 6

And I'm really quite miffed that it was Gwath who got the tie, even though he looked vaguely suspicious for jumping on Nog's reasoning like that. I considered retracting to put him in the lead after that flurry of crosspost votes, but couldn't do it in good conscience since he was giving information and appeared to be nothing more to me than a misguided innocent.


Mnemo: Because of the above post I really am not feeling good about her. Just something about that little part feels wrong to me, like she's saying "haha I knew he was innocent", just not liking it at all. 8

Kath: Really badly want her to post. 5

Hansy: Seems to be pretty savvy considering this is his first game, uneasy but will let him be toDay unless he says something later on toDay that I don't like. 6

Therefore my possible vote will be for Mira or Mnemo, though Sally is a possibility aswell.

Be back in a couple hours to re-evaluate. Study time.

[Isabellkya]

If Phantom was sweeping, and Nog was polishing - then I was staring off into space pretending to do whatever task I was supposed to be doing. xD

That is clever. At first look, the position notations seem to be close to gibberish to me.

I don't think Shasta could quite keep it perfectly accurate every time.
Since each piece can only move in a certain way, by technicality.
So, in theory - wouldn't he make it as accurate as possible. So in the killing blows, the move to take the piece was akin to that of its moving constraint?


X'd with Wilwa

[Rikae]

I took a closer look at Izzy...

Post #26 – Banter

#79 – Explaining Hansy

#89 – Jokes with tp, argues against discussing white queen's role:
“In reality, what good would it be to in-depthly theorize about what the White Queen may or may not be able to do?
We won't know (I assume) until the game is over. So, what kind of help is that going to lend us; when dealing with the evilies that we do know about?”

Probably more good than Izzy is doing at this point, I reckon.

#95 more joking with tp

#133
Doesn't want to vote randomly, although she otherwise would, because “it feels too much like bandwagoning” with so many others doing it. I don't like this. It could very easily mean “it looks too much like bandwagoning – those who did it are getting pressure, and I want to play it safe”
A lot of descriptions of what's been going on, with no substantial commentary.
Repeats my question about the cobbler, for no apparent reason. Also creepy – a bit “hey! Cobbler! Over here!”.
A lot of agreeing with (no offense, Gwath and Mnemi) pretty empty statements about looking for the wolves and bear... then goes after Mnemi for bringing it up:
“I have a question Mnemosyne. If dwelling too much on The White Queen would be baddie like behavior, or giving them ideas. Well what is bringing back up a topic from two pages ago? Wouldn't that be in the same realm?”
Says Hansy's ideas are not outlandish. I assume you mean the bit about cheating? Hmph.

#141 – Gwath is worrying her with short posts (note, this is after he has received his first vote and some suspicion). Backs off Mnemi. Now the really weird part:
instead of listing suspects and presumed innocents, she lists people who “stick out in” her mind. The reasons she gives are strange, too – me, Nog, Phantom, Fea and Sally for our usual behavior (is this an attempt to insinuate that we're suspicious because of our “usual behavior” without saying so, or what?) and Hansy, Mnemi and Gwath – only the latter two because she suspects them, though.

#146 More going after Gwath for short posts and banter.

#175 Explaining self to Nerwen

#196 Doesn't find Fea suspicious. Votes Gwath, saying:
“I am going to stick with my earlier doubts. It may be your style, which I can't blame you for. I had a brief chance to try and sift through your past games - and only had time to quickly go through your most recent one's first Day. You seemed to be a bit more aggressive in it, than you are here. What that says, not entirely sure. I'd rather vote for one I've got doubts on, than leave it to a toss of a die.”

#206 Vote count

#214 Minor comments

Conclusion: Bad. Wolf. Bad. Wolf.

EDIT: X'd with Wilwa and Izzy.

[the phantom]

*phew*

Polishing the game board is hard work. But it's looking nice and shiny now, so I can finally take a proper look back at the previous moves and give my take on the vote, why the kills were made, who Nerwen might've been hunting, etc.

Don't expect a post extremely soon though. I'm just now starting my reading.

[Hansy]

Okay, after reading Day 1 up to my last post, I think that, had I done it earlier, I would've probably voted for Sally. She's done basically the same as last game - besides that, instead of disappearing after the banter, she vaguely comments stuff that has been discussed already - thus adding nothing useful, maybe trying to look good. That's mostly post #73 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=585971&postcount=73).

I think Nogrod is evil. I don't quite know why I feel that way; I'll look him again, trying to find it out.

The Fea/Nogrod case; she was seeing clues in her own post before Nogrod had said anything (excluding his pretty Alice quote - could that be taken as a hint itself? I have no idea). So, she was at least prone to think there was something hidden, Nogrod happened to answer her back, the character is called "Han Solo" itself, pretty convenient for an hint... but there's more to that. You'll notice Fea was herself making more and more questions, just like if she wanted to get more "evidence" against me. So, what is this about? I claim she plotted the whole thing from the beginning, to incriminate me. But why me? I should be just a silly newbie. The thing is, I was a last resort solution. Because she wanted to incriminate Lommy. But she isn't playing. So, she thought, why waste such a brilliant plan to break havoc in the game? And it happened.
Of course, all that tells us is that Fea is an evil mastermind. It says nothing about her alignment in this game - and I'm tempted to believe she's most probably innocent. But that leads us to another funny subject, "Save Fea!"

Most of you shall know this business better, but here's the pattern I noticed:

1. Fea acts suspiciously and puts herself in line for execution.
2. Fea's fan club panics and focus on a random lynch to save Fea from being executed.
3. The random lynchee turns out innocent. Now Fea may, or may not, be in even more danger.

So, it's not really efficient. :(


Making lists is a hard work. I discovered that while trying to make one, during the Night. Well, you can have this:

Likely innocent:
Lari, Fea, Rikae, Isa, Brinn (although she doesn't count because it seems she will always look innocent).

Likely evil:
Sally, Nog, Mira, Eonwe

I have no idea:
Durelin, Kath, TP, Nemo

----

that's all for now, going off for dinner. :)

(crossed since Nog's post 586330, probably there's a whole new page already)

[Nogrod]

Have you seen Steve's (Eönwë's) post in the admin thread?

I suggest we leave him be at least toDay - and if he happens to be a baddie we scorn him for the rest of his life for free-riding in an immoral fashion... :rolleyes:

*I just realised that I had left a few pieces unpolished... back soon*


Okay, then for something completely different.

I'm still uneasy with Fea. Then again I'm also thinking she's most probably the Black Pawn and thence I'm not too sure we should waste a lynch on her if we have any decent option of lynching an actual killer-baddie.

Let me make my point in short one more time as it seems many people just don't get it.

So she makes that little and totally unconnected remark in her voting post saying I have "a way of saying interesting things on Day One" which follows after her telling she's in no mood to be nice to newbies (as a reason for her vote for Hansy).

Then after being questioned why she said that, she admits that she made the remark because she thought I was the seer.

Now why would an innocent go on making such a statement if she had a feeling someone was the seer? She has never answered this - and I can't see why any decent innocent would act like that in the first place. Especially if she thought that I had the most valuable information of all eg. knowing the identity of the BQ which was part of her explanation?!!!

But what kind of bothers me the most right now is her post toDay about it.
suppose someone questioned why she mentioned Nog as support for her vote- how could she have explained that away in a manner that did not point a death-arrow at NogBishop?
Did you have a plan for that Fea?
In the event that I was right about him being Seer, and anybody noticed my comment but him, I intended to lie through omission about thinking he was the Seer, and would have amplified my faith in his ordinary intelligence and the organized mode of his rather linear thinking, which is often at cross purposes with my typically incoherent mind.The question now becomes...
a) did she really have that thought out well before making the statement or is this invented afterwards (as her previous answer seemed to be in the crucial respects)?
b) and even more importantly: why did she make that original point about her thinking me to be the seer if she had to have millions of cover-plans for it if someone who shouldn't notice it would notice it? What was the rationale for it?


No innocent would say that aloud even if she thought that.

A cobbler might wish to point out a possible seer to the baddies. The motivation and the way she carries this through points neatly toward cobblerism.

A Black Queen wishing to point to the baddies who to kill / whom she will try to kill the coming Night then? In that case either the trio didn't get the hint or... and here we come to this possibility of the WQ being on action toNight... so maybe Fea really tried to kill me but the ranger covered me - and thus Eomer was killed by the WQ (it was a Q who took Eomer last Night but the table didn't tell us whether it was Black or White Queen who did it...)? In that case I'll be dead meat toMorrow. Baddies seldom leave an opportunity to kill someone without a danger of being distracted by the ranger unused if they have been frustrated once by her/him.

The likelihood of these scenarios is quite clear to me.

So Fea is up to no good but I can't see a believable scenario for her to be a member of the trio. The possibility of her being the BQ doesn't look too good either but is clearly better than the previous one. But her actions fit very nicely to her being the cobbler.

So she's a cobbler then. QED :)

Which means I should find someone else to vote for toDay as we can't afford yet another mislynch.

EDIT: Because of the extra polishing-job I seem to have X'd with a host of posts...

[Lariren Shadow]

Lari[/B], what do you mean, you shouldn't defend your vote?

The last time I went and defended my vote it backfired horribly. And I also had to explain it so many times so I thought I would do it once and be done with it.

The Fea/Nogrod case; she was seeing clues in her own post before Nogrod had said anything (excluding his pretty Alice quote - could that be taken as a hint itself? I have no idea). So, she was at least prone to think there was something hidden, Nogrod happened to answer her back, the character is called "Han Solo" itself, pretty convenient for an hint... but there's more to that. You'll notice Fea was herself making more and more questions, just like if she wanted to get more "evidence" against me. So, what is this about? I claim she plotted the whole thing from the beginning, to incriminate me. But why me? I should be just a silly newbie. The thing is, I was a last resort solution. Because she wanted to incriminate Lommy. But she isn't playing. So, she thought, why waste such a brilliant plan to break havoc in the game? And it happened.
Of course, all that tells us is that Fea is an evil mastermind. It says nothing about her alignment in this game - and I'm tempted to believe she's most probably innocent. But that leads us to another funny subject, "Save Fea!"

I see where you're referring to but then looking at it again Fea also then says, paraphrased, "wow, that was really silly of me". So yes, for a post, in fact post 145 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=586085&postcount=145) Fea was like "zomg Hansy...no wait I was on crack."

I'm not saying Fea couldn't have done this, but it just seems...highly unlikely. I can't really see her doing this. And your argument doesn't feel right to me. It seems really skiddish.

I think I might take a closer look at Hansy, or do so in a list that I will be writing.

Edit: x-posted with Nog.

[Isabellkya]

Very quickly.
To Nog, I believe we were told it was the Black Queen whom killed Eomer
If I am not mistaken, the d8 is the starting point of the Queen - and is a dark square. Also, if I am not mistaken - the Queens begin the game on a square of their own color.

So d8 is a dark square, meaning it was specified as the Black Queen whom killed Eomer.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'd like to point out that the chess notation denoting the lynches is for plot purposes only, as this particular setting doesn't lend itself well to lengthy plots.

The chess notation denoting kills during the night.... well.

Of course I'd also like to point out that I would have written a successful protection into the plot. Seemed like a rule clarification I should clear up.

[Nogrod]

Oh my... it's coming midnight here and I need to wake up at 6.30...

I suspect all of you, quite equally right now. And the only one I feel comfortable with my judgement is Fea who is a bad lynch for toDay as we need a killing-baddie and not a cobbler...

I think I need to count on your good judgement as my time for toDay runs out.

I try to wake up a bit earlier tomorrow so that I could see if I have a reason to retrack my vote but that remains to be seen if I'm able to do that. Sorry about the little input I managed toDay but polishing you guys takes time.

To Nog, I believe we were told it was the Black Queen whom killed Eomer
If I am not mistaken, the d8 is the starting point of the Queen - and is a dark square. Also, if I am not mistaken - the Queens begin the game on a square of their own color.
So d8 is a dark square, meaning it was specified as the Black Queen whom killed Eomer.I already discussed that in my post #258 and think it highly likely that was the case last Night - but not all the pieces have been in their starting positions so we should be aware of not reading them too self-evidently as it seems there is something like a pre-set starting situation there - like in Lewis Carroll's Through the looking glass... and anyone familiar with "chess-problems" knows, those positions can be anything (eg. positions one would never reach in an actual game).


Okay some pondering and a vote coming soon.

EDIT: X'd with Shasta... nice crosspost that was...

[Isabellkya]

Which causes a bit of o.O in my head at the moment.

In post #258, you talked about the black opening side because of the starting positions notated next to the list of dead people.
Which seems to mean, that you know a thing or two about chess.
Yet in #264, you say that the table did not specify which Q it was, but as already said - you'd already pointed out that the pieces were on the black opening side.
So wouldn't that alone, tell you that it was the BQ responsible?
Why the.. waffling (best word which comes to mind at the moment.) ?

On the other hand -
In #258 you also said that the opening starting positions may not tell us anything because of the lynching and killing of Gwath and Shasta.
Here is a theory - couldn't those things, mainly such as lynchings - be for the sole purpose of the plot? So they are a part of the game, but not falsely incriminating someone? When I say falsely incriminating - let me elaborate. I don't think Shasta could or would in his notation attribute the lynchings to the WQ/BQ/WB/BB etc.. Wouldn't that in a sense, not make sense?

Drat. Got sidetracked with my rereading.


X'd with Shasta and Nog.

[Durelin]

Man, poor Gwath...how many early lynches is that for him?

I love how the two lynchee possibilities were Fea and Fea's secondary attacker rather than her initial attacker. I guess because people are still obsessed with the bandwagon concept? I don't know.

Brinniel, as far as I can tell, did a 180 from voting Fea and to voting Gwath at the last minute.

And I love how Hansy summed up the whole thing.

But you know what, I have no desire to talk about that much more, because it normally ends up to be just a distracting mess. But on the other hand, I wouldn't mind seeing Fea gone at all. I get very sick of people saving one another at the loss of someone else simply because they like someone more. It only proves further that any sort of democratic system is a mindless popularity contest.

*shakes fist at the system*

[the phantom]

I'm part of the way through my reading. I've read the people with the fewest posts, including last Night's victims.

At this point I will say that the kills leave a rather empty trail. I can't see that either victim fingered anyone as innocent or guilty in a Seerish way (in a way that could be read decently after death), so the kills must have been based on more than White Bishop hunting. To make someone look bad, perhaps? Or was it based mostly upon safety- would leave no trail, or a faint wrong trail at the most, and the victim was considered unlikely to be, if the Rook, hunting you or your team mates.

As far as the Hunt is concerned, Nerwen didn't make it clear, did she? Maybe Rikae if I had to guess. Dunno...

Anyway, back to reading!

[the phantom]

I get very sick of people saving one another at the loss of someone else simply because they like someone more.
Just fyi, I certainly did not vote based upon this. Quite often I am happy to see Fea gone because I can never trust her and she never hesitates to kill me if she thinks it'll suit her ends. I made my save attempt because I truly believed I was getting a decent read on her, and after rereading her today I still think that she is not evil. I don't even suspect her of being Black Pawn.

[Durelin]

tp - But I also don't recall you having any true suspicion of Gwath, so I guess you're just saying you felt you had a better read on her being innocent than on Gwath being so?

Either way I say vote for who you think is guilty. Kay, peoples? (So yesterDay I voted for someone I did not think guilty, but I did not think anyone guilty as it was an early vote and I admit I had not had the chance to read any of the thread since I had earlier posted.)

Also, if we goodly people do that, then the baddies have to follow our lead and vote for someone "they think is guilty". They have to try to make cases and things like that, rather than just make friends by saying "oh I think this poor soul up for lynch here is innocent, so I am going to save them!"

End of useless blather. Guess I'll start actually following what I preach later and talk about someone guilty.

[Nogrod]

And I love how Hansy summed up the whole thing.

But you know what, I have no desire to talk about that much more, because it normally ends up to be just a distracting mess. But on the other hand, I wouldn't mind seeing Fea gone at all. I get very sick of people saving one another at the loss of someone else simply because they like someone more. It only proves further that any sort of democratic system is a mindless popularity contest.
Even if I disagree with a lot Hansy said in his post I do agree with this one. His summing up (points 1 and 2 especially) I agree wholeheartedly.

Okay guys, be sporty! Like I and my daughters (Lommy & Greenie) are when in a game. We ruthlessly advocate lynching each other if we think we have a reason - and that goes also in a larger scheme of things to Aganzir and Volo as well who are our RL friends. I mean the reason why Fea the cobbler was not lynched yesterDay was friendship and not the arguments in the game. And we could be rid of a cobbler now...

Don't get me wrong: in a situation where I have no clue about who to vote I tend to vote for someone I think might not contribute to the game so much or to save someone who contributes or I enjoy a lot playing with. Sure. But during some last games I have gotten a feeling there is a kind of mutual consensus between some people to just keep on helping some others because of the social factor even if there are good reasons to vote differently...

Yes, I like to see tp around for more than one day, and Boro and Rikae and Mac, and Brinn and Nerwen and... *add a long list here* because I think they are nice people whom I know a bit and I know they will contribute to the game eg. play it. But if there is reason to belive one of them is a baddie I do not hesitate to vote them. That's called playing the game. :rolleyes:

Blah, one distraction too much for me... Going back to look at voting...

EDIT: Kudos for your last one Dury! Good general points!

[satansaloser2005]

Going through and reading, but I'd just like to say something quick, silly though it may be.


DUDE! Noggie, go to bed. We killed you off last game (that is, Brinn, Nerwen, and I) so you would get some sleep, but this game I'm not evil so you're on your own. Silly man, get some rest. Mistress Sally commands it.


And on that note some things from yesterDay. I'll hopefully do some more analysis on the votes, but the thing that really worried me was Phantom and Brinn right at the end of the Day, both glomping poor Gwathiepoo like that. (And yes, he's going to come from beyond the grave and totally smite me for calling him that, but it's just too fun to resist.) I'd certainly like to know if they x'd or if it was intentional bandwaggoning on one or both their parts. (I suppose if nothing else they both intended to separately bandwagon and both happened to do it at the same time, but it still strikes me as odd.)


And for Little Mnemo, I voted Fea because, of the suspects that were available, she looked the dingiest upon a short readthrough. Notice that Nerwen, Gwath, and I were/are all innocent (not that you'll believe me, but hey) so I still think I made the best choice. Besides, as I said shortly after I voted, I preferred to not have the lynch left up to Shasta and his coin flipping machine. We all know how that (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=536340&postcount=233)can end up. So, of the people who were close to the tie range, again, Fea was the best decision I could make at the time.



EDIT: x'd since....Izzy, I believe. I certainly don't remember seeing that post of Phantom's anyway.

[wilwarin538]

Oh my, so it seems this will be my last chance to get on toDay, which I'm not overly happy about, something just came up that is totally unavoidable, so I will have to vote right now.

++Mnemosyne

As I stated before it is because of her first post toDay, just did not sit well with me at all, and after I re-read her posts from yeaterDay I found her very confusing and that just made me a bit more confident in suspecting her.

Sorry for my lack in contribution toDay. Good luck!

X-posted with Nogrod and Sally

[Kath]

Hi all! Just to say I am here and am currently writing a post. It might take a while to go up as I'm being distracted by the Oscars but it's on it's way. :)

[Nogrod]

I might almost vote you tp from that response you gave to Dury. I really don't believe a word from it - well okay some words maybe but overall it looks like a very bad apology.

The question is whether you tried to save Fea just because you love to play with her or because you realised that my argument about her being the cobbler was indeed believable as Fea would be on your side in voting & general hassle later on? I mean you have to prove your alliances in a way or another when you can't PM, and that would be a good way to do that? Building trust? Right?

Also the way you give the impression you understand everything that is going on and then go on being nice to everyone - and avoid making any actual suspicions - looks really like a standard intelligent baddie behaviour. What was it you said to me late yesterDay? And despite how much we disagree, I still think Nog is fine. And if he's right about Fea then I'll support whatever he does tomorrow.To me that looks very suspicious indeed... Be nice to the one you're intending to kill later - after you have toyed with him first. No traces left as you have been leaning to trust that one person for a Day or two. You can say "oh my, why they killed him, I thought he was okay all the time!". I just think you overdid it there - or then it is the difference between American and Finnish culture of saying things... ;)

And why did you have to defend your vote in the first place against Dury's point which wasn't actually anything big as such? Bad conscience perhaps?

I like the way you play but this time I think I have reasons to actually suspect you.

Silly man, get some rest. Mistress Sally commands it. In a minute mom... in a minute... :)

[the phantom]

Leave me alone till I'm done with my reading Nog. :p
I really don't believe a word from it - well okay some words maybe but overall it looks like a very bad apology.
You think I'm the type to make an apology for voting a certain way? Whatever. I might say sorry to Gwath, but it would be more along the lines of "Sorry you were in the position you were in at the time that I needed someone to save Fea with". I do genuinely feel bad about him getting lynched the first day. I pretty much always feel bad for whoever gets killed Day 1 and Night 2, because they didn't get to play much. Any sorrow you may detect in my post had only to do with that feeling.
Also the way you give the impression you understand everything that is going on and then go on being nice to everyone - and avoid making any actual suspicions
I told you quite clearly yesterday that I did not have any even halfway decent suspicions of guilt. It was Day 1. Is it really surprising? I mean come on, Nog. The logic that you are using on my defense of Fea and my vote does not function properly on Day 1.

And really- you suspect me because I disagreed with you and still thought you were innocent? That's just silly. Simple odds say you are innocent, and simple odds say that your heaviest suspicion yesterday was wrong, so really now. You have to do better than that, Nog.

Back to reading...

[Nogrod]

I agree with Rikae's points on Izzy. Also I would underline that I have played with Izzy a few games and know she's perfectly cabable of producing actual points but now she seems to shy away of making any actual thoughts.

I would be very much ready to vote for Kath for sheer inattendance but if there is a bigger post coming I will have to cease my verdict. She has the nasty way of sneaking through the first Days with just these RL-problems but then somehow she finds more time later in the game - and she has won (or gotten very far) a few times as baddie exactly that way.

Sally and Brinn bother me as well. Sally's vote yesterDay especially and Brinn's familiar carefulness and agreeableness just creep me out.

Dury feels like too straightforward and challenging to be a baddie - unless this league of friends is all goodies and she's a baddie of a bunch of relatively unconnected people and opens her frustration with the situation...

Rikae has good points but that's normal - whatever her role is. Somehow my guts once again yell that she's a baddie but I have no clear place to point the suspicion into. Maybe it's something to do with her slightly opportunistic stance eg. she goes on building cases or making remarks on subjects that are probably going to fall nicely to the general feeling or something? There is something fishy there even if I can't pinpoint it.

Okay. Time's out very soon...

(Hopefully I managed to get half of you mad and retaliatory with this! But really, this is what we need to do!)

A cigarette and a decision...


Oh no... first a quick answer...
I told you quite clearly yesterday that I did not have any even halfway decent suspicions of guilt. It was Day 1. Is it really surprising? I mean come on, Nog. The logic that you are using on my defense of Fea and my vote does not function properly on Day 1.Now you're avoiding the beef here. On Day1, yes, you're right, we rarely have anything on Day1... but this time we had... and have (albeit it's probably too late now to lynch a cobbler any more). You even agreed with the point but still managed to play away with it. Okay, I don't want to sound like a monomaniac but really the way you have acted looks more like "hey, I got this and will help this ally of mine looking as disinterested as possible". Not to say looking as agreeable as possible in the meantime eg. not trying to stir up any suspicions or retaliatory feelings. In which you're pretty darn good at. *envies* :) But really, what should innocents do; try to abstain from controversies just to keep their lives or to challenge and try others so that others might see things? You have been very uncontroversial this time and it spells devilry to me.

And really- you suspect me because I disagreed with you and still thought you were innocent? That's just silly. No. Not just because you disagreed and still said you thought me innocent, but the way in which you did it. And as a senior WW-gamer you know that those who talk the nicest to you by Day tend to be the ones who stab you at Nights. You're not that naïve to think that those who rub you the right way during the Days actually love you and wouldn't hurt you during the Night? :rolleyes:

And let it be said that your willingness to engage in this whole discussions speaks it's own language. I don't remember you to have sticked into futile discussions about your possible guilt - as no one will lynch you; never and no one - you're for the wolves to decide? But if there are some semi-actual suspicions and you possibly are a baddie is this the way you (over)react then? Oh good God... ;)

Okay. I'm not too sure about this and would hate to make a mistake here. I need to think about this once more before going to sleep. I mean I was going to vote for someone else as I would hate to lose your wits were you an innocent but now I will have to reconsider.

[the phantom]

On Day1, yes, you're right, we rarely have anything on Day1... but this time we had... and have (albeit it's probably too late now to lynch a cobbler any more). You even agreed with the point but still managed to play away with it.
You are not entirely accurate here. I only conceded to your view on Fea in the sense that I wanted to let you know that I understood your argument clearly (because before that there was some confusion if you will recall).

However, I don't recall that I ever was swayed to believe she was a WereCreature, and said so. I said that the worst I would believe was Cobbler, and I didn't even believe that. So trying to say that I was somehow trying to weasel out of voting for someone who looked guilty is quite incorrect. I did not think she was guilty. Plain and simple.
But really, what should innocents do; try to abstain from controversies just to keep their lives or to challenge and try others so that others might see things? You have been very uncontroversial this time and it spells devilry to me.
First, it was only Day 1. There's still plenty of time for controversy. Second, I've been busier than usual. Third, other people have been much less focused on me than usual.
I don't remember you to have sticked into futile discussions about your possible guilt
Now this comment I agree with completely. As most anyone will tell you, I am one of the most obsessive self-defenders ever to post on a Werewolf thread. No matter what my role, I respond to any guilty statement about me that I can possibly respond to. I can't recall any village in which I did not defend myself quite vigorously if I was attacked. I can recall typing entire sentences in capital letters and yelling and thrashing like crazy. So really Nog, I have to say you must be mis-remembering my play style.

[Nogrod]

Going back to the last stages of yesterDay then and to things I don't like.

Mirandir posting 7 minutes before the deadline with a vote tally and missing the vote.

Was it that hard a situation for you to choose? How did you manage to miss the deadline from 7 minutes?

Isabell's vote for Gwath almost twenty minutes before the DL and still hanging around to the end like it was not of your concern what happens - just bringnig forwards a tally and then a side comment about who had voted. I mean you look too cool there. Where you an innocent you would have been somewhat troubled whether what was being decided was going the right way (as we innocents don't know it but the baddies do know it). So it was going well and you felt easy there?

Sally's vote for Fea (still thinking Fea is the cobbler eg. not known to the baddies) disturbs me as well... and tp at the moment.

But I will say of these if looking at one of the baddie-trio I'm the most positive with

++ Izzy

I once got the wolf-Morm for this very same reason. He was too easy, too unconcerned about how the voting went as the primary candidates were not from his baddie-team. And it can be seen.

I may be able to check in before the deadline or then not. Depends if I can get up early enough before the school.

Good hunting!

[Nogrod]

I can't recall any village in which I did not defend myself quite vigorously if I was attacked. I can recall typing entire sentences in capital letters and yelling and thrashing like crazy.Maybe you have just been protected by the halo of "the phantom" the last year or two and have not needed to do that as I don't actually quite remember that, but on some minor issues...

Good work-out for you to need to try it for a long time, isn't it? :)
(Or maybe this is one of those minor issues as well in the end...)

Anyway, good night now everyone - I see some already eaten pieces require some polishing as they look reaally bad laying there outside the game board...

[Mnemosyne]

Well, I'm back.

To find that the Fea controversy from yesterDay has descended into an out and out phantom versus Nog war.

Gah. Whenever I come across these, they always end up being either 1). Two innocents hacking at each other (while the wolves snigger in the background), or 2). Two wolves making a huge case against each other so that when one of them dies the other will be Trusted. Usually it's much more often option 1).

So I'm very pleased to see that Nog voted for Izzy. I'm tempted to look into her more, but he and Rikae have already done that and I'd like to try to bring some other not-yet-looked-at players into the mix.

Sally, thanks for your explanation; since I know you were pressed for time I'll let it slide... toDay.

Brinn's vote from yesterday worries me, though.

Hopefully I'll be back with more later; alas, being a chess piece is not my only occupation.

I also knit.

[Kath]

Alright, quick explanation for yesterDay in answer to mostly Nog I think. I had no time and decided to vote randomly. I decided to vote for the person above me and that happened to be Nerwen. After I had written up to the bolded vote I suddenly realised that leaving the post as it was left me very open to a Night 1 kill and I didn't want to get killed off due to having no time so I added on a silly 'list' that could hardly based on real suspicions because there had been about 20 posts at that point and almost all of them were typical Day 1 silliness.

Now I'll make a proper one based on a good readthrough!

Mnemo - old thoughts on phantom and Fea, pretty pointless post. Fair points on the werebear/werewolf debate. Ah more confusion, but she made a good point through it. Yeah same thoughts on Hansy. I'm intrigued that she thinks Nog is being 'ridiculously' helpful, it's an odd comment. Defends herself - 'if I were something I'd be being far more careful' seems to be the gist of it. Votes Eonwe. Bit random, and a little leaping on the bandwagon-esque, not sure about this.

sally - again a pretty obvious first post. 'Let's get the baddies.' Not keen on her voting reasons. Fea for bad vibes whereas Nerwen for an actual reaction, yet she sticks with Fea.

phantom - silly list with himself, Mnemo and sally as bad guys and Durelin as a good guy. Just as ridiculous as my list I'd say! Defends Fea. Says the werewolves aren't really scary this time round for himself, though I think they are for the white team in general because of the sheer number of possible kills. Interesting thoughts about the Black roles - will they try to work together or work against each other. I don't think we can have any idea yet but it's interesting to see the theories. Good comments on whether it's more worth having pawns dreamt of and Gifted's revealing, I think he's actually probably right though with so many Gifted's there is a lot of leeway for false reveals leading to Days spent trying to figure out who is who. Votes Gwath in order to save Fea, despite in the previous post saying that for once he'd be alright with letting her go. Looks like old friendships got the better of him.

Durelin - votes sally due to a 'gut-feeling'. Hope we get more from her toDay as that isn't a random vote as advertised.

Izzy - says we should only focus on the roles we do know about rather than speculate about the ones we don't. I can see her point but it's often in the discussion that you begin to see role clues. Ooh interesting point about Mnemo there. Sticks to her guns and votes Gwath.

Brinn - complaint about chatter (though it was amusing :D), then first bit of serious commenting even if it was obvious. But then someone's got to state it. Sees my point about the possibility for fake reveals. List post seems to say suspicious of Fea, Gwath, Eonwe and Mnemo. Reasons for all. Vote Gwath, pretty consistent.

Eomer - somewhat cryptic, mostly unhelpful. Says I deliberately voted for the only person who had said anything sensible. Wrong but interesting. Says he will be looking out for patterns on Day 2. The wolves know he's a dangerous player and with so little said Day 1 it makes him a sensible kill. Votes sally for saying nothing and then saying something that by the time she said it was pointless - I agree actually.

Nerwen - wonders whether sally or phantom might have been making a confession through the banter. As she was killed by the wolves I think it's unlikely. This was most probably an attempt to start some real discussion. Same thoughts as most about Hansy, interesting ones about Rikae especially given that Nog spoke for her only a post or two before. As for me, unfortunately Kath votes like that on a fairly regular basis whether good or evil because somehow Day 1's seem not to register.

Hansy - sort of introduction post. Interesting role question, not sure where she/he (?) is coming from with it. Will the black pawn turn into a white pawn if dreamt of by the black bishop. Tis somewhat like what I thought the White Queen might do but it's an odd question from a newbie. Or does she/he mean they will be seen as an innocent rather than the cobbler? Could do with some clarification there. Interesting thoughts about the werebear though again I'm not quite sure. 'Hired gun' for the innocents? Even if the werebear was revealed they would surely not work for the side of good, and indeed the wolves would surely kill them off. You know she/he has some really interesting thoughts resulting from all this role confusion but I do with she/he had just read the rules! :D Ah! Hansy is male, I shall now remember this. Defends himself ... but not well. Votes Fea - admits it's retaliation. I don't like it.

Eonwe - given what he's said on the admin thread I'm going to leave him be til we know whether he's still playing or not.

wilwa - hmm, also mentions the 'confessions' thing. Obviously no one trusts someone who 'reveals' anymore! Some interesting thoughts about the roles, especially what the White Queen might actually be. Says she is likely to bandwagon because she doesn't know players - odd comment. Suspicion of Brinn, Gwath and Eonwe with some reasoning and votes Eonwe because she didn't want to add a new person to the vote possibilities. I don't know, it's seems likely a perfectly sensible vote but, you know, it is a bandwagon at this point and she had said she was going to join one. Without the earlier comment this wouldn't have pinged at all but as it is I'm not sure.

Nog - 'even a joke should have some meaning' he quotes, yet this post doesn't. Clears up the role confusion pretty well I think. Same point I thought of with the discussion leading to potential slips thing. Worried about Mnemo, sally and Brinn but mostly me. Hopefully I've explained what he was worrying about. Some good points about Hansy. Usual 'why oh why can't they post more often' comments. I agree with him about wilwa being odd though. Doesn't like all the random votes that aren't actually random. Despite the fact that he thought I was doing the same thing I am inclined to agree with him in some cases. Very non-commital in his big post. The only person he seems to have any sure thoughts about is Rikae (innocent), everyone else is 'could be evil, might not be'. Complete turnaround on Rikae. Do you know this makes me think she actually could be a wolf. Nog, with all the love in the world, can be as utterly wrong as any of us and for the only person he is 'sure' of to suddenly look suspicious and for him to change his opinion of his own accord makes him look good and her look bad. Votes Fea but I don't think it's good reasoning, she only mentioned her theory because she decided that he wasn't the Seer, otherwise she wouldn't have said a thing. He is taking a very different line on the Fea thing, which does seem to have divided everyone, but he's got some good reasoning behind it even if I disagree. I hadn't even considered that she might be the Cobbler but then I'm looking at the original comment differently I think.

Fea - defends phantom. Oh Fea noticed that werebear thing from Hansy as well. Votes Hansy, I can see why. He/she seemed to know so much to start with and then suddenly gets so many things mixed up, it's tempting to think it's an act.

Rikae - interesting role thoughts. The White Queen could well be multigifted. I wondered at the beginning whether she might be something like that DW characters in that she might be able to 'turn' a black piece into a white one but then I think it would unbalance the game. Voiced some early suspicion of Nerwen and is as cross with Nog for focusing on the same old things as I generally am. I'm not sure why the suspicion of Nerwen unless it was based wholly on a previous game though. Argues with Hansy and mentions Eomer's distate for Day 1. Says she may vote for Nerwen for what she said before, Izzy or Eonwe. Not a huge amount of reasoning but alright for Day 1, though I'd have liked more detail about Nerwen. Votes Eonwe, the only person in her list for whom she had not explained her reasoning. Would definitely like to know what that was about.

Gwath - spoke to Mith, pointed out Mnemo's Who reference. Makes no sense. We should focus on neither the wolves nor the bear? That's going to help. Good point about wilwa. Votes Fea, because of what Nog said, which I think was wrong anyway. I do wish we could see more of his own thoughts. The poor guy does get lynched early so often but, and again without wanting to sound harsh, it does seem to be entirely his own fault. Actually is working from a really funny angle as regards Fea because the bit he is quoting is after the fact, she's outing her theory, she's saying she's wrong and that's what he picks up on not the previous hint - yep, can definitely see why he died.

Mirandir - wants Fea lynched. Well thus far she's not said a lot but I'm sure a few posts further in I'll be agreeing! Says he won't vote newbies, fair enough.

Lari - good role thoughts, I think that yes the Black Queen would die even if she killed the Hunter because the Hunter takes down whoever they've picked if they die. I agree with her about what would happen if anyone tried to 'blackmail' the Black Queen. List post: ends up with Fea, Nog and Rikae looking suspicious. Didn't quite follow her reasoning about Nog but possible wolf collaboration between Fea and Rikae is an interesting idea. Votes Nog, ah and now I understand the earlier comment. Well, she'll have a field day with this if she thinks analysis = guilty!

Bleurgh that got long. So, from this I'd say (ignoring those who died):

Possibly guilty - for all of them because I didn't like the vote mostly, either because it didn't seem to follow on or wasn't explained well:
Mnemo
sally
Hansy
wilwa
Rikae

Possibly not - for the first three because of their consistency:
Izzy
Brinn
Lari
phantom - he's too laid back, too not involved to be something important.

No idea - mostly would simply like to hear more from them:
Mirandir
Fea
Nog
Eonwe
Durelin

[the phantom]

Maybe you have just been protected by the halo of "the phantom" the last year or two and have not needed to do that as I don't actually quite remember that
Hmm... Well maybe that's partly true, but recently wouldn't you say I was quite the insane defender when Boro and I were under fire in that game that Brin finished off? I mean, just completely obsessive, yes? That's the sort of thing that I'm talking about. Anyway...

I've finished my Day 1 person by person read through, except for Nog and Mnem (I started at the bottom of the posting list). And right now there's too much going on around me to do more reading, so I'll have to wait on those two until I am home.

I'll go ahead and post a bit about the other people in a little bit.

[Mnemosyne]

Hurrah! Not only is Kath around; she's also coherent! (Sorry we didn't give you much post fodder early Day 1.)

Probably going to start out looking at Brinn if I can; see how she acted yesterDay/toDay aside from that vote. Won't have time to go over everyone tonight, though.

[Mnemosyne]

I hope Brinn is on more today, just so that I can get a better handle on her.

But since she made that "this Fea thing reminds me of last game" post (which I had clean forgotten about), in between her "top three" post and the vote for Gwath I'm inclined to find her a bit less suspicious than I had.

Her point about needing to kill wolves, not the bear, is particularly interesting because it goes against everything everyone else has been saying. But I don't know so much about that: killing wolves extends the number of days till innocents = wolves. Killing a bear means fewer kills per night.

So, yes, valid point, especially when raised against all the others.

But amidst all this discussion of whom we need to get role-wise (and yes, I know, I'm as guilty of this as everyone else) we're not looking at actual suspects.

So I'd like to see more of Brinn, especially if/as she starts gunning after other players, because this analysis has left me decidedly neutral on her. About all I have to go on right now is her list and her vote.

[the phantom]

Please bear in mind that everything I say here is based only upon things that happened before Day 2 began. I'm trying to be just as thorough as usual despite having less time. :rolleyes:

Also keep in mind that I am absolutely not saying everything that I think about people. There are a couple individuals that I strongly suspect of being White Gifted (one for sure), so obviously pointing it out would not be intelligent. In addition, some opinions will be based more upon gut feeling (the way they're speaking, etc) and thus not much can be said other than "innocent" or "shady".

Kath- Obviously, I'd like to see more posts. But nothing set off alarms of any kind.
Durelin- Completely undecided at this point.
Wilwa- I think she's fine, and will trust her until she gives me a reason not to.
Lari- Don't have a strong opinion, but my weak opinion is favorable.
Brin- I'm extremely curious about her. She's given me strong vibes of both White and Black.
Fea- I still think she's innocent. The WereCreatures will leave her around hoping we'll lynch her, and I'd like to give her the chance to make them pay for it.
Mira- For all her posts I couldn't tell much of anything about what she actually thought. We'll see if she picks it up today.
Izzy- I'm definitely leaning innocent with her.
Hansy- On one hand I like his style. On the other hand he puts off a bad vibe or two. But then again I feel him overall innocent and fear he will be used as lynch fodder by opportunistic WereCreatures.
Sally- Difficulties for her led to an odd day. I was unable to form any opinion.
Rikae- Another one I'm definitely liking at this point. I'll defend her strongly if she's threatened.

I realize that's not much writing for a couple hours worth of reading, but at this time I choose not to be more detailed due to safety reasons and time constraints. But I figure you at least know quite clearly where I stand after Day 1 and Night 2.

[Kath]

And Day 2 - it's getting late for me though so I may have to be a bit less thorough here.

Mnemo - first post makes me feel better about her. Good point about Eomer and about sally. I believe it is the former when it comes to phantom and Nog, two egotistical innocents battering each other.

sally - I certainly don't think it's odd that phantom voted to save Fea, he thought she was innocent, don't know about Brinn. Now do know about Brinn, think this is still odd.

Fea - fair explanation.

Mirandir - says she would have voted Gwath to save Fea, useful to know, would be nice to know why she wanted to save Fea.

Brinn - ah Brinn being pessimistic, now that makes me feel good about her! Fair points on the kills and her follow-through on sally is interesting. Odd comment at the end though, saying that actually Fea and Eonwe dropped off her suspicion list yesterDay though they aren't off the hook. If they're not baddies then how can they be on the hook?

Rikae - interesting that she figured Nerwen out, no one else seems to have had any idea. She's a bold enough wolf to come out and say it. That said I agree with her about Fea. Hmm I can see her points about Izzy. Actually I really can, from what I recall about Izzy in past games she has been really good at coming up with original ideas and posting well and this game she hasn't done much of that.

Lari - suspicion of Hansy for what he said about Fea.

wilwa - good point about Mirandir though she did explain it. To be honest this list post is like Nog's yesterday, no real opinions just 'could be this, not sure, will keep an eye open'. Except Mnemo, whom she seems pretty certain of. Votes Mnemo - well it's consistent.

Nog - interesting thoughts about how to find the werebear, though of course that says nothing about role as both sides want rid of them. Not sure the White Queen would have an extra kill, if she got it wrong and we had three kills a Night ... that's a lot of deaths. Hmm, with the letters. I think K stands for King, Shasta is the mod and therefore the king, then d is going to stand for pawn, why it's not a p I don't know, and that then Q is queen and B is, well bishop I gues but wolves in general. The numbers though I think are random. Fea did answer the question you know. Still, he's decided she's the Cobbler and will thus leave her be and so I see no point in spending time debating that with him. I disagree with him about phantom. phantom believes Fea is innocent. If Fea turns out not to be innocent then and only then will phantom follow Nog. Seems clear. Aww Nog you still hate me because I always seem to have RL reasons Day 1? You know I always make up for it. Fair point about sally. Votes Izzy which is interesting as, while I agree with the reasoning, I don't think he'd mentioned her a lot before.

Hansy - says he would have voted for sally. Thinks Nog is evil. I disagree, I think Nog got the different end of a stick. The whole thing between him and Gwath smacked of two innocent fighting it out to me.

Durelin - interesting point about Brinn, will look at that. Have looked, no she said Gwath and Fea were both on her suspicion list so either way she voted it would have been consistent.

So from that:

Possibly guilty:
sally - don't like her reasoning yesterDay or toDay.
Izzy - for what I said above.
Rikae - because I think she could be an incredibly bold wolf.
Hansy - still not keen.

Possibly not:
Fea - yeah I'm still not convinced about the Black Pawn thing.
phantom - again too uninvolved to be anything.
wilwa - that consistency has just made me happier about her.
Nog - he's a misguided innocent, he has to be. Any argument like the one between him and phantom has to be innocent on innocent.
Mnemo - I'm much happier about her toDay.

No idea:
Mirandir - want to see more from her, a lot more.
Durelin - would like more of an explanation about Brinn.
Brinn - want an answer to that question before she goes in a list.
Lari - I'm just not getting anything here.
Eonwe - as I said, leaving him alone.

Ha, I'm impressed Mnemo thinks I'm coherent though. It's 1 in the morning and I'm falling asleep. Therefore I shall vote and go.

It's between sally, Izzy, Rikae or Hansy - just as it would have been yesterDay. I think the only way my vote would be useful is if I went for Izzy or Hansy and as I have a dislike of bumping newbies off early:

++IZZY

[Hansy]

Okay. I decided I'm following my gut on this one.

++Nogrod

I don't like the way many of his posts sound; too calculated, too "polished" as he said itself. And I think he's trying to divert us on going after "cobblers" - just compare the time he spent analyzing Fea, then he throws an Izzy vote out of nowhere.
I wanted him to be around to give his thoughts on this; I'll come here later, myself.

[Rikae]

In reply to Kath's first post: I put my reasons in the vote post. Not much, true, but the best I had to go on at the time.

Now, a spanking (a spanking!)... er, a list:

Mirandir – Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of Mirandir? Really, there is very little there, and what little there is is a tad dark looking.
Durelin - She seems more or less innocentish; straightforward, confident, but not edgy.
Fea– Maybe she is, and maybe she isn't. The white wizard will know.
I'm leaning toward innocent, though. I really don't think Nog's case holds up to scrutiny (it makes him look worse, not her).
Isabellkya – I don't like what I see.
the phantom – He looks very sensible. I suppose he's good enough to do so while evil, but I haven't seen anything to cause me to suspect him.
Brinniel – Seems sensible and a bit grumpy. Like last game... she was evil last game. I'll keep an eye on her (two, when I can spare them).
satansaloser2005 – I disliked her vote from yesterday and I haven't seen anything to put her in a better light.
Lariren Shadow – She has done some slight things to make me wary. I would like to have a closer look at her, but I don't have the time now.
wilwarin538 – I like what I see.
Eonwe – Cautious, under-the-reindeerish, likely to be ignored, which may be dangerous.
Nogrod – Went single-mindedly after Fea for weak reasons - but I didn't find that unusual. However, the way he now goes after tp for even weaker reasons is much, even for him. He does share my thoughts on Izzy, which looks a bit better, but then I have to remember that he has been a backstabbing wolf before, and that one could also be a werebear. I'm unsure, but more and more would like to know his role.
Mnemosyne – Difficult to read, since I'm not familiar with her, but I don't get any evil vibes. She's active and takes the initiative, which I like to see.
Kath – I'm glad she's back, and what I've seen is reassuring about her.
Hansy – I don't like all the talk about cheating, but that's not the same as suspecting him. No read at all.


Suspect most:
Izzy, Sally


Suspect moderately:
Nogrod, Steve, Lari

Suspect a bit:
Brinn, Mira

Neutral/Somewhat innocent:
Hansy, Kath, Mnemi, tp, Fea

Most innocent:
Wilwa, Durelin

And voting:

++Isabellkya

EDIT: X'd with Hansy

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Now why would an innocent go on making such a statement if she had a feeling someone was the seer? She has never answered this - and I can't see why any decent innocent would act like that in the first place. Especially if she thought that I had the most valuable information of all eg. knowing the identity of the BQ which was part of her explanation?!!!

There is no point in hiding a role that I don't think you have. I also don't think you're the White Queen. Oh no! My bad, I shouldn't have said that aloud. Saying what I don't think is just downright dangerous for everybody involved. :rolleyes:

a) did she really have that thought out well before making the statement or is this invented afterwards (as her previous answer seemed to be in the crucial respects)?

The problem with this is the suggestion that I think things out well in advance before saying them. I certainly considered the implications of posting a hint/query before I hit submit, and decided that it wasn't going to be a big deal if anybody noticed, because people drop hints and ask questions all the time; what I didn't expect was for you to respond the way you have. It makes me think you actually do have something to hide. Oh no, I shouldn't have said that either! :rolleyes:

I intended to feel out the validity of my suspicion of your role, and to give an explanation for my vote of a newbie, when it's common practice to give noobs the benefit of the doubt on day one. I was in a foul mood and I noticed what you'd said. Why forgo a chance to kill off the Black Queen, and why wouldn't a player try to learn who the seer is? As I said, once you reacted the way you did, I knew no prudent seer would be that much of a blowhard (no offense, please, you know I adore you) in response to something so mundane.

I tire of this. You're being like a dog with a bone, Nog. Let it go.

I mean the reason why Fea the cobbler was not lynched yesterDay was friendship and not the arguments in the game. And we could be rid of a cobbler now...

First I'd like to say, "Except I'm not the cobbler."

Then I'd like to say, "I agree with the rest."

While I'm pleased I'm not dead, games are no fun if they are based on favoritism instead of on suspicion. The phantom is right when he says I would never hesitate to kill him if I thought it would suit my plans, and it's common knowledge that he's a buddy of mine. Please don't let your adoration of my wonderful self mess with the integrity of the beauty that is stabbing your closest internet pals in the back. :)

Now that I've finally caught up...

Seriously, that just took me hours.

[the phantom]

Wilwa ++Mnem
Nog ++Izzy
Kath ++Izzy (2)
Hansy ++Nog
Rikae ++Izzy (3)

Well, well... off to an early lead.

What do you have to say about this, Izzy? You have just under four hours to move to a safer square on the board.

EDIT: x-post Fea

[Isabellkya]

ToDay...

It might just be me, but Mnemosyne; you looked awfully cold-hearted and blood thirsty with your "Who're we killing today?" bit in the first post after Night two ended.

#249, Rikae you do a vote recap with the relevant posts.
I think you made a bit of a mistake there, as I don't recall "tying" Steve/Eonwe? and Sally to Gwath at all yesterDay - let alone in post #196. Maybe you confused me with phantom who did?

#259, Wilwa posts her thoughts on everyone, and will most likely vote for Mira or Mnemosyne with the possibility of Sally.
At first read, I thought Mira had written this post, so when she said she might vote for herself - I was like... o.O Did someone just out themselves?

#261. Rikae analyzes me. I had been referring to Hansy's ideas of the BQ trying to work with the village as a "hired gun", so as to live longer and to try for second place. It happens sometimes where Hansy, Shasta and I have played together, outside of the BD.

#265 - Lariren replies to Rikae. Says she might look at Hansy.
She can't see Fea doing such a thing.
----- I could see Fea doing such a thing like Hansy discussed. It doesn't seem to be so far fetched to me. Mainly because I recall Fea claiming seer for the fun/heck of it before. So if she is bold enough to do that, then what says she wouldn't do something just as crafty now? Though in this instance, I don't think it is as bluffing - her response and reasoning to what happened with the whole Han/Solo thing, seemed genuine. Does it make her clear of being a baddie or up to no good, because she is bold enough to do such things? No way.

This response Lari bugs me just a bit, because it seems that you are almost blinded to the ways of Fea. It would be like your gran holding onto an image of you as a child - thinking you could never do wrong.


I dare say I have probably crossposted with a bunch of people, having inadvertently taken a nap after picking my niece up from school.

Sheesh. X'd since Sally's #275

[Mnemosyne]

It might just be me, but Mnemosyne; you looked awfully cold-hearted and blood thirsty with your "Who're we killing today?" bit in the first post after Night two ended.

Oh, absolutely.

And suddenly everyone (for certain definitions of everyone) is voting Izzy.

I just reread her posts and she sounded thoroughly bland. I think the one with the best case against her is Nog and his "why did you vote and then just chill?"

Although I must admit that endDay can get so hairy it's sometimes better for your own sanity to do all you can, and then just sit and wait.

I'd love to hear some self-defense, Isabellkya.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Nog is being obsessive, but I don't think he is a wolf. I definitely don't think he's a seer.

The phantom seems more innocent than usual. I'm noticing what usually happens: he responds most quickly and most repeatedly when his irritation builds. He's usually most irritated as an ordo. While he might not be an ordo, I do not think that he is Black.

Kath, zomg that post was epic. Kath I think is reasonably innocent. I certainly don't intend to vote for her.

Mirandir seems utterly clueless. Sorry, dear. Please don't poison me Wednesday when you cook dinner for me while I'm in class. Innocent. Or at least, not radar-lighting evil.

Durelin is one I can never get a read on. After some experience being dead wrong about my reactions to her, I'm hesitant to say that I find her abrupt style alarming.

Isabellkya: I hadn't noticed any of the scary things that apparently everybody else thinks. Must be I'm busy noticing other things. I'll take people's word for it that she's a valid suspect, but I'm totally neutral on her.

Rikae joked with me Day One about dreams. I didn't take it seriously. I think she's White of some sort, though not necessarily Gifted.

Brinniel has a way of totally sneaking past my alarm system. I don't have any idea what she might be, but I'm not alarmed enough to want to vote for her.

Sally doesn't seem nearly hyper enough to be evil. Then again, maybe she took notes on the fact that I pegged her day one of the last game for that very thing. Still, no vote from me today.

Lari and I need to do our bio homework. My brain is totally running on empty. Usually my Mondays are so quiet... Anyway, Lari is on the lower end of the middle of my innocent/evil spectrum. The little I think about her is vaguely cautious in her direction.

Wilwa and I haven't played together in so long that I don't remember what I'd normally think. I think she's a white pawn, though I'm not sure.

Steve honestly should post more memorable things, since I'm doing this list from memory, and nothing is springing to mind.

Mnemo rings alarm bells, but I don't know why. I should look back over posts, but I don't know how much time I'll have before deadline. I didn't expect my afternoon to be so busy, and my Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursdays are a blitzkrieg of insanity. I'll try to look back and see why I'm unsure/suspicious of Mnemo before I vote, but I really don't know how functional I'll be, as I'm already exhausted.

Hansy: I'm now quite certain that Hansy isn't just an alias of the phantom (mostly because other people have told me that they know Hansy as a legitimate individual being). That being said, I wouldn't be adverse to repeating my vote of Hansy, for all that my reasoning no longer involves Nogrod.

I shall go think of chromosomes and suchlike now...

Edit: x'd with phantom, Izzy, and Mnemo

[Isabellkya]

I am getting to it Phantom and Mnemosyne.
I am only up to post #285 in actually reading. Skimming doesn't help.

Oh absolutely - it is just me thinking you a bit cold-hearted and blood thirsty, or oh absolutely you were being such?

[Mnemosyne]

Just reread Mira's posts.

Really the thing I hold against her the most is that "Well, I would have saved Fea voting for Gwath" post. Did Fea strike you as innocent, and if so, why? And was Gwath unknown, suspicious, or cannon fodder?

It really doesn't look that good for you, my dear; but then again, if you were a baddie, would you have frankly admitted that you were planning on voting for who is now a known innocent?

As usual I still have no Red Flag suspicions, if I have any suspicions at all (call it the fate of a lurker who read these games more for entertainment than intellectual stimulus). But for some strange reason Sally is still giving me odd feelings, even though I said I'd let her off the hook for toDay.

Then again, I've never read her playing in a game where I didn't know her role in advance. I'm not used to looking at her posts frankly.

I'll look over her stuff, but won't vote her unless I find something really really bad-looking (hah!).

Mira also continues to give me odd feelings, even though I don't know why: once again, I don't have nearly enough information to make a decision I'm satisfied with!

Steve I'm willing to wait until toMorrow to look at, when deo volente he'll be able to defend himself.

Hansy I think is innocent, but couldn't say why. Need to do some rereading there as well.

That's all for now!

[Mnemosyne]

@ Izzy

Oh, absolutely I was being such. :p

I look forward to your defense once you've read through the thread to your heart's content.

[Mirandir]

Mirandir posting 7 minutes before the deadline with a vote tally and missing the vote.

Was it that hard a situation for you to choose? How did you manage to miss the deadline from 7 minutes?

Honestly, as I stated earlier today, I got distracted and came back literally a minute after deadline. I'll be back with decent analysis (fingers crossed) after reading a 200 page book for a paper that I just found out is due tomorrow morning.

[Mirandir]

Okay, so I'm gonna finish reading and then go do my massive amount of homework. :p

Mirandir - wants Fea lynched. Well thus far she's not said a lot but I'm sure a few posts further in I'll be agreeing! Says he won't vote newbies, fair enough.

Actually, I said I was going to vote Gwath in order to not lynch Fea.

Mirandir - says she would have voted Gwath to save Fea, useful to know, would be nice to know why she wanted to save Fea.

I explained in the post where I said I was probably going to vote Hansy why I don't want to lynch Hansy, Fea, or the phantom quite yet. They're too valuable to have around to kill so early on and offer good insights even when they are evil.

Mirandir seems utterly clueless. Sorry, dear. Please don't poison me Wednesday when you cook dinner for me while I'm in class. Innocent. Or at least, not radar-lighting evil.

No brownies for you. :p

Okay, seriously doing homework now.

[Mnemosyne]

Just read through Lari's posts.

No red flags, but some very bright yellow ones!

On the one hand, the Nog vote doesn't seem to be particularly evil, though I have to disagree with her philosophy: you can poke holes in analysis! You can't poke holes in silence or vagueness!

The very vague list of yesterDay: seems fairly ordo-ish, again, but I'm used to thinking of baddies as holding strong opinions.

ToDay she's done little more than defend yesterDay's vote, and then defend not defending it.

Before that, there was Queen spec and also some engaging of Hansy's meta-type questions. Which are fun but ultimately do not help out the game that much.

So, basically, she's been quiet, rather unhelpful, and non-commital.

I still want to look at the other players I've listed above, but I am seriously considering voting her at the moment.

[Isabellkya]

Continuing on....

#275 - Sally finds the 'glomping' of Gwath yesterDay by Phantom and Brin worrying.
----- What worries me about this post, is Sally's claiming of innocence - twice. It seems a bit overdone. She claims to be not evil, and innocent - she even says "not that you'll believe me, but hey". Well, to what purpose are you claiming innocence twice in one post; when you haven't really posted much at all?

#279 - Nog might vote Phantom for his response to Durelin. Likes how he plays, but thinks he actually has reasons to suspect him.

#280 - Nog is ready to vote for Kath, but if there is a bigger post coming, he won't.
Sally and Brin bother him - Sally for her vote and Brin for her carefulness and agreeability.
Dury is too straightforward to be a baddie.
Rikae, his gut yells she is a baddie. He will have to reconsider voting for phantom.

#281 - phantom claims to be an obsessive self-defender

#282 Nog doesn't like Mira's vote tally seven minutes prior to DL, then not voting.
He doesn't like my seeming unconcern after I voted roughly twenty minutes prior to DL, then "hung around".
----- Did I feel easy at the time I was voting and through to the DL?
Absolutely not. I didn't think Gwath was even going to be lynched. When I saw phantom and Brin bring out the save votes at the end, I said a word that isn't appropriate to post on the thread. I stick by my vote, sorry Gwath. I would rather place my vote on someone who I am unsure and have doubts about, as opposed to rolling a die between others who I had not looked into.

#284 - Mnemosyne is pleased with Nog's voting of Izz.
Is bothered by Brin's vote from yesterDay.

#285 - Kath makes a list of possibly guilt, possibly not, and no idea from Day one.
----- What do you mean by Mnemosyne "a little leaping on the bandwagon-esque, not sure about this."?

#287 - Mnemosyne going to start with looking at Brin.
#288 - [b]Mnemosyne[/b[ would like to see more of Brin.
----- Is it Brin's vote from yesterDay that made you start looking with her? If it is, it seems that Brin went from "bothering you" to "less suspicious". DO you mind elaborating on it?

#290 - Kath makes a list of people for toDay.
---- Why does your reasoning for voting for me, look very similar to that of Nog's? It looks quite contradictory to me. You say that I have not been as "original" as past games, yet you do this. Mind elaborating?

It seems to me that the reasoning behind the votes - are not being original as usual, for understanding Hansy and my voting of Gwath.

In a general response. I don't think I am ever original in ideas; in werewolf you really can't be. Because the game has been around for years, and I've only been a part of it for a relatively short amount of time. If you think I have in previous games, I thank you - but reject the "praise"; as I don't believe anyone can truly be original nowadays. Because by this time, actually seeing something "new" is quite few and very far between. In regards to Hansy, I don't really know what else to say on the matter - other than what I've already said. With Gwath, I'll point upwards in the post, to my response to Nog.


I'm going to take a short break now, my hand is threatening to cease functioning.


X'd with Mnemosyne and Mirandir after my #298.

[the phantom]

Okay, I finished my Day 1 Nog read. He looks pretty clean. Just Mnem to do now.

And then to skim everything from today...

[Mnemosyne]

To Izzy: Brin's vote yesterDay worried me because I had thought she jumped in there with little to no reasoning, especially on a "save Fea" count. I had clean forgotten about her post which said that the situation was reminding her of the previous game, which is some reasoning. On rereading her posts, I was not only reminded of that post, but also of some other ones beforehand in which she had suspected Gwath in his own right.

That's why my suspicion of her has slackened.

[the phantom]

Okay, finished Mnem's Day 1 stuff. I'd say she probably isn't a creature of the night.

Now I'm reading Day 2 stuff. I'll read it straight through instead of going person by person. Stay tuned...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'm thinking...

And it would make sense to me if Nog was the cobbler. It would explain why he has spent so much time yammering on about something that nobody else thought was worth the bother: he's trying to cause a scene.

Now don't take this as an accusation, more like a hypothetical... I'm thinking aloud...

It would just sort of explain it. So basically, for Nog I'm thinking that he's either the cobbler trying to cause a scene, or he's ordinary and just can't help it.

I don't want to vote for a mere pawn when so much is at stake every end of Day, so I shan't vote Noggins.

The trouble is, I know what roles I think people don't have, but that still leaves a bunch of possibilities for what they might be. It doesn't do much to narrow down my wolf-suspects.

I already said that I don't think the following are Black:

Nog
the phantom
Mira
Rikae
Sally
Lari
Wilwa

That leaves the following as possibles:

Kath
Durelin
Izzy
Brinn
Steve
Mnemo
Hansy

I'm going to think in a tangent for a bit...

I'd like to get the Black Queen early, because killing xer stops the double kills, but it's hardest to track somebody who has no allies by nature.

I'll satisfy myself by wolf-hunting, hoping that we catch xer by accident, or that the wolves get xer at Night. That would be ideal, really... It would be convenient as all heck of the BQ picked a wolf to die the same time the wolves picked xer. The village would be down two baddies at once, without losing any of themselves.

I just had some thoughts about Night dynamics between the BQ and the Wolves, but they're really disorganized and all hypothetical anyway. Mostly I was trying to think of how the Rangers impact behavior at Night. I settled on the assumption that the Black Ranger would want to alternate between protecting the Hunter and the Seer, xer cohorts.

The Black Ranger can't protect the same player twice in a row, but the White Ranger can't protect the same player twice.

This makes me kind of nervous, and very curious. I'd hate to have the role of White Ranger in this game, because how do you choose? Do you protect the person you think will be attacked? Or do you gamble and hold onto your ability to protect that person later in the game, when it might make or break everything? What happens if you get down near the end and your only available protect option is a known wolf?

I'll need to think about this more, to see if anything useful will come of my thoughts on the matter.

In a role heavy game, everything matters.

But back to my voting...

Since I think everybody but these people is White, it kind of forces the assumption that the Blacks are in this group:

Kath
Durelin
Izzy
Brinn
Steve
Mnemo
Hansy

Four out of seven. I've got more than a fifty fifty shot, as long as I'm accurate about who I think is innocent, at picking a bad guy out of this group.

The problem is, "not innocent" doesn't mean I have any idea of actual role.

Gah. I'm probably wrong about this stuff anyway.

I just want to go to bed...

I'm not voting Steve, because he RLdied.

I'm not voting Brinn or Kath because my suspicion of them is more of a lack of comfort than a distinct suspicion.

Dury, Izzy, Mnemo, or Hansy.

Hansy and Mnemo are still quite new, so my suspicion of them might be based entirely on them trying to get a footing in terms of actual Barrowdowns Werewolf playing experience. For that, I'll leave them alone.

And now I'm left to wonder, how did I end up crossing off everybody but Dury and Izzy when like two posts ago I said that I really didn't think Izzy was all that scary looking?

I give up at life.

++Izzy.

I don't trust my judgment on either her or Dury, but at least I'm not alone in systematically narrowing down my list of possibilities and reaching Iz at the end.

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, so I....erm....kind of fell asleep. Sorry about that. Back now though, I'm sure you'll be happy to hear, so to business!

Well, to business after the brief announcement of 'Yay, Nog went to bed!' ;)


So a few people are voting for Izzy. The problem is that I've gone through her posts and didn't see a whole lot that was troublesome. I'll have another look, because I know I miss stuff a lot, but for now I don't see what the big deal is with her.

By the way, I should have mentioned the obvious, it seems. Both of the last minute votes for Gwath troubled me because of....well because they were last minute votes, but of the two of them Brinn's obviously bothers me more because it came with less warning and could easily have been a last minute attempt to save an evil Fea. I assumed that went without saying so I didn't mention it, but I keep forgetting that just because something is obvious in my brain doesn't mean that people will know it's in my brain at all. ;)

I'll have to look around a bit more before I vote. Hansy still is unsettling to me, just to put that out there, and there are a few others that I have feelings about, but nothing terribly concrete at the moment.

Oh, and somebody (sorry, I'm too lazy to go back and look who it was, if both things were even mentioned by the same person) mentioned that A: I pointed out my innonence too much and B: I suspected Nerwen more than Fea but voted for the later anyway. Well, to respond to that.... When I'm innocent I'm more than happy to point it out to the rest of the class, and while I know no one will automatically believe me I figure I may as well tell everyone whose side I'm on so they know....well, so they know that if I say weird stuff, it's because I'm thick, not because I'm evil. And I did say that I suspected Nerwen more, but I also realize that Nerwen and I for some reason seem to always suspect each other regardless of role so I took that into account when voting and decided that my 'vibe' against Fea was actually more trustworthy than what I had seen in Nerwen's post.

Off to read things again. :)

[Lariren Shadow]

Fea and I finished the bio homework and this is me not reading my Ireland homework(from a book that is horrible).

So, basically, she's been quiet, rather unhelpful, and non-commital.

I also haven't been around much so I haven't had much to comment on. I just went through all the posts and now have something to say. I can't really be helpful if I'm not here.

So list:

Mira: Hasn't been here much either. Has said some interesting things, but nothing that much. Defended what she did yesterDay and explained the vote situation. Not sure anything is suspicious there. I want to see more out of her, but right now there isn't anything that's saying she's evil at all.

Durelin: I agree with her about the voting. Yes, we should not play favorites and I would vote Fea or Mira(even at the risk of not getting brownies either) if I thought they were guilty. I can't really get much else of a read on her though. I would like to see her analysis.

Fea: I can't get a firm read on her. I read her posts once and think "oh she's innocent" and then I read them again and think "wow, she's evil". I can't get a good read. I can tell she was frustrated yesterDay, but other than that I can't tell if she lies more evil or more good(and that looks horrible and sounds horrible in a sentence).

Izzy: I don't know what to think of all the accusations against her. I can see where some of them are coming from, but I'm not sure how to look at them. She hasn't really responded to some of the accusations, but more like made her own. I think she needs to be looked at and that she doesn't look that innocent.

the phantom: I would like to know some of his suspicions because they generally make sense. I don't think he's guilty(though earlier I did come up with this: "tp is cleaning. Cleaning is evil. By the transitive property of equality tp is evil." but then thought better of actually posting it as a reason). His posts seem to lean more innocent sounding.

Brinn: Was pessimistic at the beginning of the Day. Either this is an ordo lamenting about things or its a wolf trying to look innocent. I want to hear more out of her, but I'm more leaning towards the wolf rather than not at this point.

Sally: I have no idea. Honestly I don't think I've ever been able to get a good read on her ever.

Wilwa: Is looking more towards being innocent every time I look at her. Her vote seems innocent enough.

Rikae: Is another one that I can't read. I was convinced last game she was guilty and she's acting in the same way. But she turned out to be innocent. I'm not sure what to make of her at all. I might need to think about her more and see what I can come up with.

Eonwe(Steve): I'm not going to vote him toDay. Let him recover.

Nog: He seems more innocent looking toDay. Not completely innocent, but more than he did yesterDay and enough more that I wouldn't want to vote him again because he does seem to be asking the right questions and getting to the right points.

Mnemi: Looking at her again, I think she comes out more innocent than anything else.

Kath: Epic posts of epicness. It looks rather safe. I can also see that maybe it was to sort of prove that she has been paying attention and try to get the vote off of her for not being around. It doesn't make bad points.

Hansy: I tried to go back through his posts. I just kept getting more confused. I know others like the way he thinks but I don't. I don't know if its me or what but I don't like his logic at times. Not at all.

It looks like I'm going to probably pick between voting Hansy or Brinn, mostly because I seem to have such a hard time reading most everyone else.:rolleyes:

And I was wondering this, and its probably a stupid question, but does the cobbler get to contact the wolves in anyway in this game? I'm just wondering because in the two others I've played here the cobbler has done that...this probably should have been asked yesterDay.

Edit: x-posted since post 304

[satansaloser2005]

Grrrr now that I'm reading through Hansy's posts again, I can't help but find him looking like a chimney sweep. I think I'll just go through and analyze his posts and hope that either I get a clearer grasp of what's wrong or that I'll change my mind.


EDIT: x'd with lovely Lari

[Isabellkya]

Ah, okay. Thank you for elaborating Mnemosyne.

At the moment, I am not feeling to well about:

Sally - because I've seen this sort of behavior before. She is always quite silly, and usually has a lot of banter. As entertaining as it is, it makes it a bit hard to get a good read on her. The thing that sticks out most in my mind is her double claiming of innocence in one post. She hasn't been under a heavy firing squad, pressuring her to reveal something. So, why would she sort of preemptively do it?

Kath - mostly because of the seeming flip she does in a span of a few posts. She says that I'm possibly not a baddie, because I was being consistent. Then comes back and votes me, saying that I haven't been as original as in previous games. Wouldn't that sort of be a sign of inconsistency? Otherwise, I would just feel unease towards her for unclear reasoning.

Lari - I'm not sure what it is. I think it is the seeming blindness in terms of Fea which bothers me about her.

Otherwise I'm not entirely sure.

Hansy, Phantom, Fea and Mnemosyne don't bother me.
Nog I think is over thinking things, which I think is usual. But there was a sense of waffling in the beginning of toDay.
The others, I just don't have a read on.


X'd since #307.

[Brinniel]

I'm here. Sorry I haven't posted...I had time to read throughout the Day, but I didn't get the chance to actually write something. But I'll be here until deadline.

Brinniel, as far as I can tell, did a 180 from voting Fea and to voting Gwath at the last minute.
I don't know how you could possibly see me pulling a 180. I never said I was going to lynch Fea; I said I'd probably vote her if I couldn't find a better candidate. I stated three people I considered voting for, Gwath included. And in the couple posts following, I started to back off on Fea.

If they're not baddies then how can they be on the hook?
Those two may no longer be on the top of my suspicion list right now, but as I said, I want to re-examine everyone. Fea and Eonwe may look more innocentish than before, but I'm not gonna make the mistake of completely disregarding them since I can't know anything for sure.

As of now, Noggie is the one who's bothering me the most, and for many reasons:

1. His weird theory about the White Queen being the one to kill Eomer instead of the Black Queen. I suppose it's possible the WQ could be some sort of assassin, but I highly doubt it. For one thing, there's enough roles that have the ability to kill at Night as it is (there were six, now five), I don't think Shasta would add another...it'd be just too much bloodshed. These wild theories Nogrod comes up with are both weird and misguiding.

2. His apparent certainty that Fea is the cobbler. Really? You're that sure after only one Day? C'mon, we all know Fea is an odd one, and I do always find it difficult to figure her out. Noggie said he couldn't see how her behaviour could possibly be that of an innocent, yet he knows that's not necessarily true because he said the same thing last game and she was an innocent. Even if Fea is cobblerish, it doesn't mean she is.

3. He keeps indicating that he's likely to get Night-killed any time now. I don't know why he thinks he'd make such a great target...just because he did last time. I know it's typical for an innocent to occasionally comment their worries that they might be killed soon, but the fact that he keeps repeating it is what I find troublesome.

4. Noggie's always one to analyse and overthink, but it almost seems he is doing it to an excess. Of course this is only based off of feeling, which doesn't make it a very strong reasoning, but I had to mention it. It's primarily the other three reasons that cause me to suspect him.

I'd like to examine everyone else carefully, but I don't know if I have enough time for that. But I'll try.

[Lariren Shadow]

All right, I'm going to vote now so I can pretend to get some sleep/finish reading for tomorrow.

++Hansy

His reasoning just rubs me the wrong way. I don't like it. I keep rereading his posts and they keep striking me as, well, guilty.

[Mnemosyne]

Lari, thanks for giving me some more substantial information.

And to answer your question, normally on the 'Downs cobblers are not allowed to communicate with the wolves, unless they try to do so in-game through veiled statements that everyone else can pick up on.

[the phantom]

Finished skimming today. My eyes are tired at this point. I'm going to spend a few minutes getting my stuff ready for tomorrow morning and I'll be back. For now, a list-

Won't Never Vote For
the phantom

Won't Vote For
Wilwa
Lari
Fea
Izzy
Rikae

Probably Won't Vote For
Kath
Hansy
Sally
Nog
Mnem

Which Leaves
Durelin
Brin
Mira
Steve

I reserve the right to change this list completely and totally at the drop of a hat.

[satansaloser2005]

Well, that sucks. Sorry, I was all ready to do an analysis of Hansy but when my computer crashed it must not have saved the posts I'd multi-quoted. My apologies, because now my post'll probably be semi-close to the deadline. Suffice to say I'm considering voting Hansy, just so it doesn't come as a surprise. Other than that though, I'll just see how things go. I don't want a repeat of yesterDay.


Back soon with an analysis. :D

[Mnemosyne]

40 minutes till and I'm still oblivious...

Confusticate all these people and their bebothered lists!

Went through the posts of those whose I hadn't gone through yet, and am still finding next to nothing, even as more and more people (thanks, btw!) give me something to work off of!

I have to agree that Durelin's 180-comment looks odd, since Brin did leave enough evidence in posts beforehand that she found Gwath suspicious.

Hansy doesn't look as helpful as he had used to, though I looked at all his posts out of context which meant I suffered from the full force of all that rules and strategy spec.

I find it fascinating how people are either totally for Izzy or totally against. I don't want to join one camp or the other!

But it is odd that so many people apparently independently all decided to vote for her.

I'm still going to leave Nog alone as his reasoning still sounded so sound. But now (and if you've read my posts at all this Day, you'll see how much I've been wavering!) I may have to look into the cases of those who have voted for her so far.

Maybe everyone else is picking up on something I'm not picking up on. But using my shoddy boil-everything-down statistical reasoning at least one baddie has voted for her already.

[Brinniel]

Mirandir: I'd really like to hear more from her as she hasn't posted all that much of substance. It is odd that she didn't make it to vote when she posted a vote count so close to deadline, but I can't say it's particularly suspicious. It could've easily been an innocent's mistake as she so says.

Durelin: Her comment about not defending someone just because they're a friend is a good one, but it's a comment anyone could've made regardless of role. I'm still trying to figure out how she thought my vote was a 180. I'm a bit worried about her, though a lot of it is just based on vibes. I need to hear more from her in order to have a stronger opinion, and sadly it look like that won't happen toDay due to RL reason. For that reason alone, I won't consider voting her.

Fea: Seems like the typical Fea...slightly chaotic. Like I said, I always find her difficult to figure out. I'm inclined to think she may just be an ordo, but I can't say for sure.

Izzy: Seems to be our primary lynch candidate toDay. I'm not sure why...I found her posts to be fairly sensible. Though at the same time I have no strong desire to save her if need be, as I don't see anything directly pointing towards her innocence.

the phantom: Seems to be acting oddly ordinary. I mean, just yesterDay he called himself Sauron and now he's the chess board janitor. What happened to the all-important, self-centered phantom I'm used to seeing? :p

Probably shouldn't have said aloud. I really shouldn't be provoking such behaviour... :rolleyes:

Sally: I still think she is more likely innocent than guilty, but I'm certainly not confident about that. She seems like her typical self, though perhaps even more thoughtful.

Lariren: Reading her posts, I feel pretty good about her. She looks pretty innocent.

wilwarin: I'm still adjusting to what her style is; so far I like her and her posts are reasonable with substance. But I still don't have a good read on whether she's innocent or guilty.

Rikae: Seems consistent so far. I really have no strong opinions on what she could be as of yet.

Nogrod: Already discussed him, as of now is my primary suspect.

Mnemosyne: Is competing with tp on the post count...quite impressive for a newbie. I'm kinda going back and forth on her. I'd really like to take some time to analyse and look at her a little more closely, but I'm afraid deadline is nearing in and analysing her may take some time considering her post count. So it'll have to wait...hopefully I'll have time toMorrow.

Kath: I always appreciate her lengthy posts, there's just something I like about them. She seems innocent so far, the only problem is that Kath always seems innocent to me.

Hansy: Has flown under my radar, though that may be because he only posted twice. I still have no idea about him, but I think I like his style so far...another great addition to Barrow Downs WW.

[Isabellkya]

There seems to be a wind coming from somewhere in this place, and it keeps knocking me to the ground - making it very hard to reexamine some of these pieces.
So, I shall try to make my vote in the next few minutes - so as I don't miss the chance completely if I'm not able to get up again.

I think I'm still at debating between Sally, Kath and Lariren - from what I've got written down here amongst my notes.

Pah, you strange wind!


X'd with Brin.

[Mirandir]

Everything's based on toDay's posts, since I really don't have time to go through yesterDay's as well.

the phantom - Said it before and I'll say it again - not voting him or Fea this early in the game. ToMorrow however, fair game.

Wilwa - Didn't see much of him toDay, but what there was wasn't suspicious.

Lari - Defends her vote and makes vote analysis, but nothing suspicious looking.

Fea - see the phantom. Also paraphrases things that some of us are too lazy to read all the way through ourselves. :p

Izzy - Lots of analysis; if we were playing the "analysis = evil" game she'd be up there.

Rikae - Vote analysis of last night, looked at Izzy and found her guilty. Could be a wolf throwing another wolf under the bus to cast suspicion off herself.

Kath - Need to hear more from. Her few analyses were pretty epic though.

Hansy - Same feelings as yesterDay, but don't have much more to go on toDay

Sally - Not much from her toDay (I think) but what there was didn't strike me as

Nog - Oodles and oodles of analysis, but that's pretty normal for him.

Mnem - Same as Izzy

Durelin - Need to hear more from.

Brinn - Wasn't around much toDay.

Steve - Was sick and thus won't hold not being around against him.

SO. Based on the "analysis = evil" game [b]Nog, Izzy[b], and Mnem are at the top of the list. And as much as I hate playing that game, chances are I'll end up voting for one of them for lack of better candidates.

[the phantom]

Okay, I'm back now.

Does anyone have a vote tally?

[Mnemosyne]

Don't worry, Brinn; a number of them are chatty or in response to specific points. About 5 different posts probably contain the same amount of content as another player's "list."

Looking over the Izzy voters so far, this is more than mildly frustrating! The person whose reasons are least thought out (i.e., process of elimination) is Fea, which would be horribly suspicious in anyone else! :eek: I am not assured of her innocence as I was yesterDay, but I still don't know if that's enough to vote for her--especially since a certain number of players still find her Dead Guilty, which for me has always been a sign of her innocence. ...Although, now that I think about it, has anyone really kept up on her case but Nog?

Grah, all these powerplayers! Fea, you're off the hook for tonight, but if everyone suddenly finds you as pure and innocent as the wind-driven snow (except for Nog, who can be remarkably thick once he sets his mind on one idea) I may end up voting for you.

Nog's vote I've discussed before, and Rikae was the one who got the ball rolling, which may or may not mean anything.

Which leaves me to Kath, who is one of those players whom no one can ever really lay a finger on (as to innocence or guilt). Her first post she finds Izzy to be quite normal, and then the second time around changes her mind. Using, much like the now-suspicious-Fea, the process of elimination, she comes to the same conclusion as two others before her and one after! What is going on here?

I'm planning on voting Kath now.

[Brinniel]

Wilwa ++Mnem
Nog ++Izzy
Kath ++Izzy (2)
Hansy ++Nog
Rikae ++Izzy (3)
Fea ++Izzy (4)
Lari ++Hansy

[satansaloser2005]

All quotes by Hansy. Oh, and I speak of the chess pieces by their piece gender; whether I refer to them as male or female holds no hint as to who I think is in that particular role. Also, I'm talking about the Black Queen whenever I mention the Queen unless otherwise stated. Thanks for tuning in.


ETA: You're welcome to skip this post until later, as I know it's really close to the deadline. Again, apologies.

Erm. Hello. Nice to know you all, besides those I knew already. [Sally doesn't know me. But I know her... well, her name.]
I'm taking hours writing this post. This is so wrong.

Yes. Because that's not at all awkward. Heh. Moving on....

*deep breath*

I can start by introducing myself. You can call me Hansy... it's not that long so it doesn't need to be shortened. Reminds me of what you did to poor Beregond last game. I read the books some time ago. They were fun, but too long to be true. So I don't remember most of it. I liked Aragorn and Legolas (yay I'm so creative!). And I like kittens. You probably figured that out after seeing my avatar.

About the werewolf... well, this is quite a different experience. I took my time reading the previous game... and I would always agree with Legate. The guy that apparently was wrong all the time. But I liked his reasoning. I hope you'll forgive me, but I don't think I'll bold names... unless I start writing bigger-than-huge posts and it gets really hard to read. Which I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon.

Now let's talk about roles. Hi Nerwen.

[Random Comment 3: Well, at least this time people aren't roleplaying. I just can't do that.]
[Random Comment 4: The icons below the textbox strangely remind me of Zelda.]

Where are random comments one and two? Sorry, I'm weird like that. Okay, so he tells us a bit about himself, comments on the last game (of which he missed all the important posts, I'd like to point out *sulks* so yeah....kill him just for that hehe) and otherwise nothing really of consequence.

Oh, and there's more. They have a Ranger, so there's always one element on the team immune to the Black Queen attacks. The Black Bishop can dream of her, leave some clues and basically blackmail them into helping the team's job. If by any chance they're attacked by the Queen, she is as good as dead, and they can just attack her back - and if she happens to kill the Hunter, he will probably be hunting her, and kill her.

Now, one question for the host. If the Black Bishop dreams of the Black Pawn, will it turn like a Black Pawn? Or instead, like a White Pawn?

Talking about the giftedness of the evil team. Just rule clarification, not much to comment on other than he seems to want us paranoid about how screwed we are as a village. Then again, others (myself included, in a way) did the same thing, so I'd hardly lynch him based on that.

I would say the Black Queen HAS to kill the Black Bishop, for her own safety. Her life is doomed from the point the Black Bishop finds her - if he does, sooner or later, the Werebear will die. The White Bishop provides the same danger, in a different way - if they are revealed, and reveal the Black Queen at some point, she can be used as a "hired gun" for the innocents - actually, I just thought it can't happen, because if we tell the Queen who she kills, the Black Knight can just protect their target. Unless they're already dead.

Why would the Queen listen to us anyway? This form of logic makes no sense, regardless of the Black Knight's Night picks. And from here it just gets weirder.

Of course it's not good for her, but if she's given the choice between being executed and helping the innocents, what would she go for?

Neither, because she knows as soon as we were done with her we'd kill her. And she would know it, so why not take some innocents down and at least try to assure some form of baddies the win, as opposed to being the village's willing slave until she outlives her usefulness and is slaughtered? I'm just sayin'.

They're a different evil than the three gifteds; either way, they have no choice, really. They can rebel against the innocents, trying to help the "wolf" team - but a win for the wolves is not a win for the werebear.

And I thought PM conversation was banned here... but then what stops the Black Bishop (or a teammate) from PMing their findings and misleading them?

True, but if it was me I'd at least want my 'side' to win. Kind of like when (and no, I'm sincerely not bitter, it's just a good example....sort of) I was cobbler for a wolf team involving Boro and they killed me at Night. Or....even better, Agan in the last game, once turned, became a wraith and was a baddie. I'm not explaining this very well, for which I apologize, but basically while they're two different teams I would think that the Queen would still want the innocents to lose, even if she could not triumph.

It is banned, except when expressly permitted by the mod. What stops people from PMing? Honor and decency, my darling. We're all fair players here, even if we like to screw with each others' heads a bit.

It would work if they want to try second place instead of third, if they care. And if numbers are tight enough, they actually might get a shot at winning... but we don't want that :p so in that case there was no possible deal.

I think it was Rikae who responded to this and rightly said, "There is no second place in Werewolf." See what I said above. Besides, once the Queen's outted she's done. Either the wolf team will kill her or we (the innocents) will.

Yeah, the wolves can PM each other, but in a game like this I don't think it would be fair for the Black Bishop to let the White Bishop PM the other innocent roles, as it's cutting them out on a possible strategy of pretending to be the White Bishop - and that actually applies to other games, just like in last one... now I'm thinking of what chaos would happen if the Cobbler decided to PM guess the Ranger or something

Now he's just trying to lead the discussion to role speculation and away from actually catching a baddie toDay. This is something that really bothered me, as he continues to hammer his points home even after they're proven unrelated to the game play.

I meant that they could talk to the ranger saying they were the seer. Ignore the fact that it would require massive amounts of skill/luck to ever work, it was a really random thought, but my point is that if you're allowing the gifteds and only the gifteds to PM each other (again, besides wolf team), they're proving their roles to each other, and that kind of goes against the spirit of the game... "informed minority against uninformed majority", if the gifteds know each other for sure, they are just like a wolf team, with the advantage of having lots of plain innocents on their side, and the disadvantage of not having a night kill.

Hmmmmm. Interesting point, but if I'm correct the gifteds can only PM each other if the seer dreams the ranger, etc. Other than that they're basic gifteds.

Nemo [?!], you aren't new here, are you?

See, if you'd watched the Sally Spam Show you'd have seen some of her lovely work. Shame on you, you duck hater. :p

The wolves have their nightkill too. it's a risky move, but the reward would be huge: controlling two kills a night, making sure their players aren't going to be incriminated. Or even better, making the Black Queen look bad, so that the innocents focus their attention on her.

@Nogrod: I don't plan to do such thing if I ever get a cobbler role, don't worry. just brainstorming here.

He's back to saying how the baddies should probably be playing. Again, worriesome, though time seems to be running short so I best get a move on.

Just pointing out that I'm a boy.

Good to know, love.

Yes. (But I want my newbie status nonetheless) It is way too different from the way it is played here, though. It relies heavily on roles; I can't remember the last time I played with plain innocents/ordos before this game, for example, and there [i]are second places (answering to Rikae, which I believe I missed before). You play almost like Mafia - and the way everyone's active, and analyse each other's posts to find which people are lying, it's an interesting approach that I wanted to experiment. I was trying to do my part on creating useful discussion - I didn't want to be misinterpeted as the cobbler or wild theorizer or whatever.

"I know I look bad, but I'm cute and new and cuddly, so you can't kill me." Bwah!?!??!?!?

(Though at this point, I should be pretending I am the cobbler. It would certainly be more fun :p but not helpful, yeah.)

Again, bwah?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!? You don't pretend to be the cobbler, dude. That gets you killed, first of all, and if you're pretending to be cobbler you may as well have the role. (Yeah, I know, I've done it once or twice, but that's because I'm not the juiciest apple in the basket, so it was uninentional. This is different.)

Now I realized I should've done the analysis bit earlier; because it's almost 4am here, and my brain is certainly not functioning how it should. So, as voting is mandatory, I'll just flat out avoid having anything to do with it.

++Fea

"Revenge vote", I don't think you'll execute a veteran today anyway; here's the promise to check on Day 1 happenings tomorrow, the first thing I'll do is to re-read stuff and write my first of those oh-so-famous lists.

At least he has the....erm, the masculinity, I suppose, is the polite way to say it....to say that he's revenge voting. But that doesn't really make it any better.

Okay, after reading Day 1 up to my last post, I think that, had I done it earlier, I would've probably voted for Sally. She's done basically the same as last game - besides that, instead of disappearing after the banter, she vaguely comments stuff that has been discussed already - thus adding nothing useful, maybe trying to look good. That's mostly post #73 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=585971&postcount=73).

I think Nogrod is evil. I don't quite know why I feel that way; I'll look him again, trying to find it out.

The Fea/Nogrod case; she was seeing clues in her own post before Nogrod had said anything (excluding his pretty Alice quote - could that be taken as a hint itself? I have no idea). So, she was at least prone to think there was something hidden, Nogrod happened to answer her back, the character is called "Han Solo" itself, pretty convenient for an hint... but there's more to that. You'll notice Fea was herself making more and more questions, just like if she wanted to get more "evidence" against me. So, what is this about? I claim she plotted the whole thing from the beginning, to incriminate me. But why me? I should be just a silly newbie. The thing is, I was a last resort solution. Because she wanted to incriminate Lommy. But she isn't playing. So, she thought, why waste such a brilliant plan to break havoc in the game? And it happened.
Of course, all that tells us is that Fea is an evil mastermind. It says nothing about her alignment in this game - and I'm tempted to believe she's most probably innocent. But that leads us to another funny subject, "Save Fea!"

Most of you shall know this business better, but here's the pattern I noticed:

1. Fea acts suspiciously and puts herself in line for execution.
2. Fea's fan club panics and focus on a random lynch to save Fea from being executed.
3. The random lynchee turns out innocent. Now Fea may, or may not, be in even more danger.

So, it's not really efficient.


Making lists is a hard work. I discovered that while trying to make one, during the Night. Well, you can have this:

Likely innocent:
Lari, Fea, Rikae, Isa, Brinn (although she doesn't count because it seems she will always look innocent).

Likely evil:
Sally, Nog, Mira, Eonwe

I have no idea:
Durelin, Kath, TP, Nemo

----

that's all for now, going off for dinner.

(crossed since Nog's post 586330, probably there's a whole new page already)

No time to comment on this properly -Sorry!- so I'll try to keep it brief. I like his commentary on the "save Fea" thing, although I'll be the first to point out that his theory about Fea's vote seems rubbish to me. Fea's not going to accuse a newbie without a good reason. Then again, wanting her 'shadow' gone could have been a good enough reason for her.

Okay. I decided I'm following my gut on this one.

++Nogrod

I don't like the way many of his posts sound; too calculated, too "polished" as he said itself. And I think he's trying to divert us on going after "cobblers" - just compare the time he spent analyzing Fea, then he throws an Izzy vote out of nowhere.
I wanted him to be around to give his thoughts on this; I'll come here later, myself.

Erm....I think I'm reading this wrong, but it sounds as if he's saying "Noggie doesn't want us going after the cobblers, so he's guilty." Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Still, I don't think that Noggie being 'polished' is a reason to kill him. He's always like that, so I'm hesitant to kill him for being himself, at least right away. Then again, I can never read Noggie, so I'm hardly the expert.



Okay, done finally. Posting and refreshing. X'd since my last.

[Mnemosyne]

++Kath

It's nothing personal, dear--you're remarkably coherent for a 1-am-er.

[Isabellkya]

++ Sally

Because, she has made me feel uneasy about her. Her explanation/response did not change it. Especially her #309 post. It seemed to me that part of it said "Well, I don't see anything wrong, but since others have voted - there must be something there." The way it was said, it seemed like she would go back specifically looking for something to find that was wrong, so she could make a vote out of it. I could very well be over thinking it. But it was the tone in which it was said.

I don't feel comfortable voting for Kath or anyone else toDay, however I think Kath should be looked into toMorrow.

I think Mirandir needs a looking into toMorrow as well. Call me confused (which I am). But you say Kath has an "epic" analysis, which is way bigger than mine. But you put me on the "analysis=evil" list, yet not her. What is up with that?

X'd since #323

[satansaloser2005]

++Hansy


For reasons stated above, and general bad feelings about him.


I suppose if the ickle kitty turns out innocent I'll have to buy him a car (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dzi_8Rscfs)or something to make up for it. :Merisu:

[the phantom]

So is Izzy's fate sealed already?

[Mirandir]

I think Mirandir needs a looking into toMorrow as well. Call me confused (which I am). But you say Kath has an "epic" analysis, which is way bigger than mine. But you put me on the "analysis=evil" list, yet not her. What is up with that?

Essentially what it boils down to is that I'm ridiculously over tired and you had more posts analyzing more things whereas she had one (or possibly two) reeeally long one.

++Mnem

Reasoning when it's not really close to deadline and I'm paranoid about missing it again.

[Brinniel]

++Nogrod

Reasons already have been stated. I find him to be very suspicious as of now and that's that.

[Mnemosyne]

...Sure looks like it...

This should be interesting.

[Brinniel]

So is Izzy's fate sealed already?
If everyone spreads out their votes like this, then yeah.

[the phantom]

Meh...

++Nogrod

Just because I feel like it.

EDIT: xpost with at least last 2 posts

[satansaloser2005]

Yeeeeah I think she's done.



EDIT: x'd with Phantom. Heh.

[the phantom]

And now, I shall attempt to predict the Night 3 events...

The Werewolves (Lari, Izzy, and Wilwa obviously) will use their kill on Nogrod, who is the White Queen. Attacking the White Queen means that you must sacrifice one of your pieces, so both sides lose someone.

The Black Queen, Rikae, attacks Kath, the White Bishop. But fortunately for her she is saved by Brin, the White Knight.

The Black Rook chooses to hunt Fea because she suspects that she is the second White Bishop that we weren't told about, and the Black Knight protects me, because after the Black Bishop dreamed of me on Night 1 it was revealed that I am the secret Fourth Werewolf (the Black King).

Now we just see if I'm right. Bets can be placed at your local Werewolf Sports Bar.

[Isabellkya]

--Sally
++Nog

Sorry, but I feel I need to make a more direct move to save myself, as my defense seems to have been overlooked. :(

[satansaloser2005]

--Hansy


++Izzy


EDIT: Yeah, I meant to put my other bit in another post, but edited instead, so I put it where it belonged. Sorry about the confusion.

[satansaloser2005]

Red flags go up when someone sneaks in like that. I feel like crap, but I hate ties and for pity's sake, that looks suspicious, regardless of what I thought the rest of the Day.

[the phantom]

It was tied Sally. Why'd you break it? It would be awesome to have a tie every single day. You broke the streak.

[satansaloser2005]

It was tied Sally. Why'd you break it? It would be awesome to have a tie every single day. You broke the streak.

I bloody hate ties. Unless they're wrapped around an unsuspecting boy's neck. Particularly if he's a certain Russian. (Inside joke, don't even try to read into it, darlings.)

[Isabellkya]

I wouldn't of done it at all if people had read my defense and taken an honest look at things, in stead of just following others because of likea-bility. :(


Edit. 'sides ties are always fun and entertaining.
Sorry Shasta. :(

[satansaloser2005]

I wouldn't of done it at all if people had read my defense and taken an honest look at things, in stead of just following others because of likea-bility. :(



Sorry, Izzy. Feel like telling us what you were, since you're done for?

(And again, sorry, but it looked too underhanded to just pop in and put it in at the last possible second, though I may have done the same under the circumstances. Still....just looked too weird, and I had to act.)

[Isabellkya]

If everyone hadn't waited until the last possible second to vote....
I'm always selfish in werewolf - especially if I'm being lynched for silly reasons.

Pfft. Nope, you shall be waiting. xD

[satansaloser2005]

If everyone hadn't waited until the last possible second to vote....
I'm always selfish in werewolf - especially if I'm being lynched for silly reasons.

Pfft. Nope, you shall be waiting. xD

Heh understandable.


Well *raspberries* to you too, then, Missy. :Merisu:


EDIT: The mod approaches. Hushabye....

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Sorry, I let the time get away from me. No more talking. I'll say who's to be lynched momentarily.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Day 2

Pieces moved, back and forth. Back and forth. Neither side gained the upper hand.

For a while, it looked like Isabellkya was in danger. Pieces of the opposite side congregated, all focusing on her...

But the tide turned, and Sauron lashed out unexpectedly, knocking poor Nogrod off the board.

With a Rook and now a Knight down, could Gandalf pull out a victory...?

Pieces:
Mirandir
Durelin
Feanor of the Peredhil
Isabellkya
the phantom
Brinniel
satansaloser2005
Lariren Shadow
wilwarin538
Rikae
Eonwe
Mnemosyne
Kath
Hansy

Taken:
Shasta - Ke3xe4, Night 1 (Moderator)
Gwathagor - d3xe4 (Lynched), Day 1 (White Pawn)
Eomer of the Rohirrim - Qd8xh4 (Killed), Night 2 (White Pawn)
Nerwen - Bc8xa6 (Killed), Night 2 (White Rook)
Nogrod - f6xg5 (Lynched), Day 2 (White Knight)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Night 3

Sauron continued his onslaught of Gandalf by quickly moving one of his pieces, taking out another of Gandalf's pawns (this one with the soul of Mirandir).

Then, by clumsiness, one of the two wizards bumped the board. One of the pieces rocked for a moment, and seemed about to fall, but another piece moved at the last second. The falling piece clacked hard against the other piece and reversed its momentum, coming to a rocking halt back firmly on the board.

Pieces:
Durelin
Feanor of the Peredhil
Isabellkya
the phantom
Brinniel
satansaloser2005
Lariren Shadow
wilwarin538
Rikae
Eonwe
Mnemosyne
Kath
Hansy

Taken:
Shasta - Ke3xe4, Night 1 (Moderator)
Gwathagor - d3xe4 (Lynched), Day 1 (White Pawn)
Eomer of the Rohirrim - Qd8xh4 (Killed), Night 2 (White Pawn)
Nerwen - Bc8xa6 (Killed), Night 2 (White Rook)
Nogrod - f6xg5 (Lynched), Day 2 (White Knight)
Mirandir - Ba6xe2 (Killed), Night 3 (White Pawn)

[Mnemosyne]

My reaction to the end of yesterDay:

...the Utumno?!?

[the phantom]

So, a save was made... interesting.

I guess the Black Queen now knows the identity of a WereWolf.

[Mnemosyne]

The other thing is that apparently the Queen got blocked. Now, given previous narrations, I think it's safe to say that there's more going on in this game than we had reckoned.

But if the not-dead person was indeed a Black Knight save, that implies that whoever it was was evil. And since the Knight can't protect two days in a row...

Of course, that's too much for an innocent to hope for. I think it's still in the Queen's interest to keep those wolves around for a little while longer.

And yesterDay's lynch... my brain STILL hurts. No theories, of course; would love to see what others have to say.

Even though it appears that the cards are against us, we still need to do our best to catch those under Sauron's control, no matter what. Some speculation is good, especially because it says much about the speculators; but ultimately I can't let it distract me from attempting to sniff out WW's.

Also, Izzy, how does it feel to be alive?

[the phantom]

Yeah, that didn't go so well yesterday. :rolleyes: But of course it could have been worse.

And to be fair, Nog did turn out to be not normal, didn't he? The fact is I thought he was a bit different a few times throughout, but I worried about voicing suspicion in case he was a White Gifted rather than Black. I was getting both kind of vibes from him, so I just claimed he was innocent and put him on the back burner to be watched.

But when I saw that I could throw him into the voting mix, I made a split second decision- "You know, I'm gonna do it! He's been funny so let's just go ahead and see."

Plus I was wanting to save Izzy.

Anyway, this evening I finally got a chance to do a bit of digging (I've been far below my usual standards thus far when it comes to reading and rereading). And guess what? I found some interesting stuff and I feel like I'm on better footing now. The lynch will finally go favorably I think.

And you know Shasta has got to be entertained thus far. I mean just think of all the Werewolfing stars there are here. There's Fea, me... um, Fea, and.... me. And Fea of course. A regular VIP show right there, wouldn't you say, m'dear? ;)

[Mnemosyne]

There's Fea, me... um, Fea, and.... me. And Fea of course. A regular VIP show right there, wouldn't you say, m'dear?

Oh, you can just go straight to Mordor...

...oh, wait...

[the phantom]

About the lynch, there are a couple possibilities that spring easily to mind...

1) The White Queen's vote counts for more.

2) The White Queen is immune to the lynch and must be killed at night.

3) The White Queen cannot be killed on the first attempt.

Given that, I can't believe a certain someone is alive today. Do the WereCreatures really expect us to lynch in that direction. :rolleyes:

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, so....yesterDay's lynch, eh? *eye twitches* Very interesting.

To business, though, if only briefly. A vote count for you lovely people, fully updated.



Day One Votes

Kath-->Nerwen at 6:36am
Fea-->Hansy at 4:37pm
Durie-->Sally at 4:39pm
Steve-->Gwath at 4:55pm
Eomer-->Sally at 6:18pm
Rikae-->Steve at 9:26pm
Hansy-->Fea at 9:45pm
Lari-->Nog at 10:17pm
Nog-->Fea at 10:25pm
Willa-->Steve at 10:36pm
Gwath-->Fea at 10:41pm
Izzy-->Gwath at 11:37pm
Sally-->Fea at 11:56pm
Mnemo-->Steve at 11:58pm
Phantom-->Gwath at 11:58pm
Brinn-->Gwath at 11:59pm

Did not vote: Mira



Day Two Votes

Willa-->Mnemo at 4:33pm
Noggie-->Izzy at 6:10pm
Kath-->Izzy at 7:21pm
Hansy-->Noggie at 7:31pm
Rikae-->Izzy at 7:50pm
Fea-->Izzy at 10:15pm
Lari-->Hansy at 10:50pm
Mnemo-->Kath at 11:53pm
Izzy-->Sally at 11:55pm
Sally-->Hansy at 11:57pm
Mira-->Mnemo at 11:58pm
Brinn-->Noggie at 11:58pm
Phantom-->Noggie at 11:59pm
Izzy-->Noggie at 12:00am
retraction of Izzy-->Sally at 11:55pm
Sally-->Izzy at 12:00am
retraction of Sally-->Hansy at 11:57pm

Did not vote: Durie, Steve

[Mnemosyne]

I still think there's something to be said for the fact that those initial Izzy votes were all so spread out early in the day, and all apparently arrived at by people who had "reasoned independently" and came to the same conclusion at the same time.

We now know one of them was Nog, a known innocent.

As I said, I don't know what was going on, but I didn't like the look of it. And I still don't, despite the fact that Nog did vote her.

phantom, if the White Queen's vote counts for more than an innocent's, that Day One tie may be helpful to those who want to find out her identity. But as you said there are other possibilities.

[the phantom]

phantom, if the White Queen's vote counts for more than an innocent's, that Day One tie may be helpful to those who want to find out her identity.
Sure, unless it doesn't work like that all the time. Perhaps it's a one-time special ability.

[Mnemosyne]

Yeah... basically, we don't know and unless a miracle happens, won't find out till the end of the game. Better, IMO, to hunker down and get back to work. I'm still convinced there was at least one wolf in the group of Izzy voters. Coincidences like that don't happen.

[the phantom]

I still think there's something to be said for the fact that those initial Izzy votes were all so spread out early in the day, and all apparently arrived at by people who had "reasoned independently" and came to the same conclusion at the same time.

We now know one of them was Nog, a known innocent.

As I said, I don't know what was going on, but I didn't like the look of it. And I still don't, despite the fact that Nog did vote her.
I would agree with you if not for the fact that I'm liking Rikae, confident about Fea's goodness, and leaning towards Kath being a Goodie as well. But of course your leanings may be different than mine.

[satansaloser2005]

Well, I would just like to say that I thoroughly enjoy having my laptop back. It's so nice to not be on some rubbish machine from the Dark Ages, but instead to be on my lovely Hunter with his bright shiny screen and....oh, I dunno....working internet connection. I'm happy he's all better. It means I can at least attempt to play properly! :D


Sorry. Slight euphoria going on over here, that's all. :)


I'm again concerned by Brinn and Phantom's votes. Now I realize Phantom was being silly (and he did explain himself toDay) but that's two Days in a row in which Brinn has influenced the....oh my giddy aunt. Phantom may be right. And if anyone makes sense for the double vote power, it's her.

"Let me explain. No, there is too little time. Let me sum up."

I know I'm a bit thick but go with me on this one. Day One it was a tie between Gwath and Fea. Brinn put in her vote for Gwath at the last minute, and Gwath was the unfortunate loser of the tie. (What if it really wasn't a tie?) Day Two Izzy was technically ahead, but Brinn put in her vote for Noggie and he somehow managed to perish. (What if she pushed the vote into a tie?) I'm just saying. Shasta didn't mention a tie on the second Day, but if that's the case he wouldn't anyway, since it's a secret role.

Does that make sense to anyone else? Or should I don a white straitjacket and take Hunter to the happy home to post for the rest of the Day?


EDIT: x'd with Phantom

EDIT again: I kind of messed something up, so I had to sort of do the post over. Sorry if it's a tad different. :Merisu:

[the phantom]

Izzy went out to her lead early, so it's not as if her voters were reacting to anything (a threat to one of their pack-mates). The only person who ended up being threatened with the noose was Nog, and we know that he wasn't a WereWolf, so there was no compelling reason to vote Izzy over him. You certainly can't say it was because the Wolfpack suspected her of being Gifted, otherwise they would've eaten her last Night.

It may seem like it can't possibly be a coincidence, but I'm not seeing a reason why it shouldn't be one.

[Mnemosyne]

Also, I hope Eonwe and Durelin are both back and in working order! We can't give silent players a free pass forever, even though they're having RL troubles.

I really can't wait till we've got a flood of more opinions out here. Recent events should result in a flowering of ideas, which I hope can be translated into evidence.

I really want to hear more from Fea, because I'm concerned about her actions yesterDay.

Hansy's reactions, given that he voted Nog first when Nog was nowhere in the running for a lynch, should be interesting.

Come to think of it, that whole Nog-in-second-place seemed to me, at least, to spring from nowhere! phantom voting him on a lark I can see, but it still don't look good.

Oh, and phantom, you're still alive. I'm starting to get worried. :p

[the phantom]

Good thoughts, Sally. Similar to some of the stuff than went through my head. Indeed, Izzy and Brin are the prime candidates in such a case. Oh, and maybe one other person. Can't think of the name... *snicker*
Oh, and phantom, you're still alive. I'm starting to get worried.
Given the situation here you ought to be. :eek:

[Mnemosyne]

Interestink thoughts, Sally.

Izzy went out to her lead early, so it's not as if her voters were reacting to anything (a threat to one of their pack-mates). The only person who ended up being threatened with the noose was Nog, and we know that he wasn't a WereWolf, so there was no compelling reason to vote Izzy over him. You certainly can't say it was because the Wolfpack suspected her of being Gifted, otherwise they would've eaten her last Night.

There are other reasons I can think of, and if I've learned one thing in this game it's that things are going on behind our back that we can't explain. Indeed, the non-reactionary nature of the Izzy votes was one of the things that raised the hairs on my neck. I can't say that all the votes were arrived at independently, since no player is an Island, but the reasoning behind them appeared independent (two process of elimination, which can easily be manipulated). I didn't suspect any of the voters (and continued not to suspect Nog) until I realized that they had all voted the same way without appearing to be bandwaggoners (which takes talent!).

Then again, I'm rather grasping at straws here. Anything which looks off is grounds for concern, regardless of the feelings I get about players, because I don't get any feelings about them other than "innocent" or "unknown," generally. It may not have been a Vast Wolvish Conspiracy, but that doesn't mean no one was involved.



Of course, Sally's vote looks odd, explanation or no.

[Mnemosyne]

Given the situation here you ought to be. :eek:

And that sounds like something a Wolf!phantom would say. Ai!

[the phantom]

Anyway, I have really really got to nap a bit. I'm supposed to be waking up in less than four hours. (Third time in a row I'll be getting four hours or less. :()

I'll look in briefly upon waking, and then I'll be around for the majority of the second half of the day.

EDIT: x-post Mnem, Lari
And that sounds like something a Wolf!phantom would say. Ai!
So you disagree? Think we shouldn't be worried at this stage, with every last Black piece still alive and only two White Royals left? A little fear is healthy, lassie. Motivation.

But now I must leave.

*zzzzzz*

[Mnemosyne]

Or should I don a white straitjacket and take Hunter to the happy home to post for the rest of the Day?

Sweetheart, Nerwen's dead.

[satansaloser2005]

Good thoughts, Sally. Similar to some of the stuff than went through my head. Indeed, Izzy and Brin are the prime candidates in such a case. Oh, and maybe one other person. Can't think of the name... *snicker*

Great minds....great minds....Now I just need another great mind to accompany my own. Any takers? ;)

Hmmmm I'm gonna look at the voting records again and see what I can find. Brinn just jumped out at me because she's been alarming me for a bit and your suggestion made enormous amounts of sense. Wow. Who'd have thunk it?



Of course, Sally's vote looks odd, explanation or no.

Well, quite frankly, I knew he was innocent. Now by 'know' I don't mean I knew with 100% certainty, because only the bishop(s) and the mod can know that and I am none of the above. I only mean that I had a heavy suspicion that he was innocent, and even an inkling that he could be gifted, though I obviously didn't want to say that and get him Night killed. So yesterDay, like the Day before, I made the best choice I could under the circumstances, the more valuable of two innocents rather than the lesser of two evils if you will.

[Isabellkya]

Also, Izzy, how does it feel to be alive?

I'm quite confused to say the least. Yet I am not about to look a gift horse in the mouth (too much.)
When I saw the scene, I was quite speechless after exclaiming a phrase; which I can't repeat the entirety of here.

My thought, is if the WQ were responsible for it - wouldn't Shasta of attributed xer for it; rather than Sauron?

[satansaloser2005]

Sweetheart, Nerwen's dead.

Never said she wasn't, love. What's your point?


Heh, yeah Izzy, I had the same reaction. To be honest, I'm really upset that Noggie got lynched instead of you, but happy you're still alive. Does that make sense?

[Mnemosyne]

My thought, is if the WQ were responsible for it - wouldn't Shasta of attributed xer for it; rather than Sauron?

Depends; there's already been some discussion on that above.

But I don't think we can look into the narrations for clues other than who got which Night kill. After all, the death that was saved was (almost) caused by the two Wizards actually colliding with one another.

But unless there's some rule which we haven't been told of (which is entirely likely, praise our Mod with great praise) the unexplainable death must have had something to do with the unknown role.

[Isabellkya]

My last post was crossposted with #368 and #367. But it wouldn't let me save it after editing it in.

[Mnemosyne]

Never said she wasn't, love. What's your point?

Nothing; just a bit of punnery. Under different circumstances that would've looked like a veiled reveal.

[satansaloser2005]

Nothing; just a bit of punnery. Under different circumstances that would've looked like a veiled reveal.

Pfffft. Do you really think I'd be that obvious (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/f/fe/20080101184744!Chess_piece_-_White_rook.JPG)? ;)

[Mnemosyne]

Ai! I am stricken with the force of Peter Jackson's Subtlety Mace (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Anvilicious) (tm)!

[satansaloser2005]

Ai! I am stricken with the force of Peter Jackson's Subtlety Mace (tm)!

Quick! To the duck hospital! Fear not, fair village, for I shall return!:)


EDIT: Nom nom. Duck soup. Tasty and delicious, precious. ;)


EDIT again: Fear, not fair. Wow, I'm a special girl. Heh.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

"Fair not"? And I was so looking forward to the annual Were-Fair...

In other news, your Almighty Mod-Lord of Doom and Pointless but Fun Exposition is quite pleased with this game so far. You game pieces are doing quite well. To reward you, I'm going to let you vote among yourselves to decide who shall get a cameo-parody in the next lynch plot! :) No, you can't vote yourself. Color your plot-cameo votes in highlight, please.

[Mnemosyne]

Indeed, if the one with the most individuals voting for him does not die, it is fair... NOT.

[satansaloser2005]

Oooo fun!


++ Mistress Mith

[satansaloser2005]

Some people may appear on multiple lists, some may appear on none.

Werecreatures
Brinn
Fea
Hansy
Durie (just a hunch, though I know she's been gone so I won't lynch her now)

Spefically the Black Queen
Brinn
Hansy

Hiding in the dark corners (could go either way)
Mnemo
Kath


Probably innocent, at least for now
Izzy
Rikae (What? Inconceivable!)
Phantom
Steve (pity the sick man if nothing else)

Definitely innocent in my book
Sally
Shasta
Mith
Legate
Nilp
Lommie
Agan
Greenie


I also have some more solid theories about the White Queen, but I don't care to endanger Her Majesty, so I'll keep them to myself until I believe the time is right. Until then I'm on the straight and narrow, off to analyze someone. You'll find out who when my post pops up. :p

[Mnemosyne]

I also have some more solid theories about the White Queen, but I don't care to endanger Her Majesty, so I'll keep them to myself until I believe the time is right.

Good; I was getting a bit concerned with that conversation you were having with phantom there, which stimulated my juices and therefore may have stimulated quite a few others' as well (though those who really have a stake in the matter would have done all of their theorizing last Night). Indeed I think all of us are teeming with theories at the moment. Question is, have the baddies thought of ours so much that we're open to discuss them? And would it do more good or harm?

I'm torn. On the one hand I want people to analyze so I can analyze their analysis. On the other hand I'm afraid this is going to keep us from our actual job, if not help the wolfiekinses (in case they're not all Gifted by Divine Grace with Brilliance and Intellectual Superiority like phantom).

Remember, peeps, they're just theories. There are many of them, and the truth could be one, a combination, or something different entirely.

In case people are wondering (pointing out the obvious yey!), the Good:Evil ratio now stands as 8:5.

...Maybe now would be a good time for the Black Queen to start going after R,B,K, given that an innocent lynch would put the ratio at 7:5.

[Mnemosyne]

All the way back from Day 1...

My take on the Bear killing the Wolves- I would definitely try and kill Wolves once a certain point in the game had been reached. What point, you ask?

Well, if we're on Night 4 and no Wolves have died, I would say it's time to thin them a bit. But the Bear wouldn't want to attack them sooner as it might cause them to be wiped out too early, and he would lose their nightly kill.


Interesting.

[Brinniel]

But if the not-dead person was indeed a Black Knight save, that implies that whoever it was was evil. And since the Knight can't protect two days in a row...

Of course, that's too much for an innocent to hope for. I think it's still in the Queen's interest to keep those wolves around for a little while longer.
Actually I can't see why the Queen wouldn't want to kill a wolf if she has the opportunity. While it may help to have them around in numbers, they're still not on the same team and at some point the wolves will want the kill the BQ...and it could be especially bad if the BB dreams of her. If she has a window of opportunity to eliminate one of them, why not take it? For one thing, it's a guaranteed kill. The only reason I can see why she wouldn't is if she suspects the save was the BR and feared that he may hunt her. I think I would almost rather leave the BQ alone just for toDay if there's any possibility that she might kill a wolf.

Then again, I don't know if we can be sure she targeted a wolf. Would it be possible that the wolves chose to protect someone else if they suspected/knew that they were the Black Pawn? Of course, if the Black Queen eliminated the BP instead it wouldn't be so bad either...but then again, that could be another reason for her not to kill her original target since the BP should be on her side..

I'm again concerned by Brinn and Phantom's votes. Now I realize Phantom was being silly (and he did explain himself toDay) but that's two Days in a row in which Brinn has influenced the....oh my giddy aunt. Phantom may be right. And if anyone makes sense for the double vote power, it's her.
Or phantom, since he has voted no differently than me.

Day One it was a tie between Gwath and Fea. Brinn put in her vote for Gwath at the last minute, and Gwath was the unfortunate loser of the tie. (What if it really wasn't a tie?)
I doubt that. Mods will sometimes give subtle hints or even slightly mislead the village, but I've never heard of a mod that would outright lie to us. Which is exactly what he would've had to do for that scenario to work out.

Since Shasta's around, perhaps he can tell us. Was the Day 1 lynch really a tie? Or is the actual vote count to remain a secret?

Anyway, we can't really know what the WQ's power is for sure...it's all just speculation. One possibility that came to mind is perhaps the White Queen has the power to save a lynch candidate she thinks is innocent. Kind of like a ranger, but during the Day. But then, why wouldn't there just be no lynch instead?

Brinn just jumped out at me because she's been alarming me for a bit and your suggestion made enormous amounts of sense.
Just wondering, how does alarming* equal White Queen? I thought the WQ was on the village's side. Is there a reason think otherwise? :confused:

*By alarming, I'm assuming you mean suspicious.

Sweetheart, Nerwen's dead.
I think Sally was talking about her computer. Yes, apparently she has a name for her computer. Though strange that of all names, it is called Hunter...

My thought, is if the WQ were responsible for it - wouldn't Shasta of attributed xer for it; rather than Sauron?
An interesting thought. Though, what does that imply? That Sauron is not only controlling the game but is in it as well? Bah, at this point I'm feeling like anything is possible... :rolleyes:

[satansaloser2005]

True, Brinn, Phantom's voted the same way you have, but I think it would be pretty silly for him to bring up the true nature of his role so flippantly. I mean, it's Phantom, but still....



Shasta's actually gone to bed for the night. I'm not saying he'd lie to us so much as withhold information. Completely different barrel of red herring.



Well, I certainly named my computer before the game started so yeah. Draw from it what conclusiong you may; I'm going to try to catch the baddies if you don't mind.

[satansaloser2005]

I've got all of Willa's posts cued up and will run through them at some point, but I'm kind of considering going to bed, or at least getting off the board for the night. I'll make sure to get to my analysis as soon as I can though. (Hopefully I'll be around during my rubbish seminar class tomorrow if I can manage to get a spot where the professor won't see me, because distraction is the only thing keeping me sane hehe.)

[Mnemosyne]

Then again, I don't know if we can be sure she targeted a wolf. Would it be possible that the wolves chose to protect someone else if they suspected/knew that they were the Black Pawn? Of course, if the Black Queen eliminated the BP instead it wouldn't be so bad either...but then again, that could be another reason for her not to kill her original target since the BP should be on her side.

Touche, and a good thing to keep in mind. All we know is that the Queen did not get a kill last night.

[Brinniel]

True, Brinn, Phantom's voted the same way you have, but I think it would be pretty silly for him to bring up the true nature of his role so flippantly. I mean, it's Phantom, but still....
Actually that's exactly something I'd imagine phantom doing...because I know how much he loves to bluff and come up with all sorts of ploys. Yes he is the phantom, which is why we should be ready to expect anything from him. :rolleyes:

I'm not saying he'd lie to us so much as withhold information.
Fea and Gwath to be put up for lynching, chosen by randomizer.
He said the lynch was chosen by randomizer. If the lynch was already predetermined by the WQ, then it wouldn't be randomized. Unless he was being dishonest, which I suppose is entirely possible, though I cannot see why a mod would intentionally mislead a village like that. Being lied to about the results of a lynching seems rather unsporty to me.

Okay, I seriously must get to bed now. I can hardly keep my eyes open...

[satansaloser2005]

For Brinn, regarding Shasta.


Crap, you're right. Sorry, I missed that bit when I was reading before. Thanks for correcting me.


And on that note I need to get to bed too. I was just checking in quick before I toddled off, so I'll see you fine people later. Leave me lots of posts to look at! :D

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Checking in. Can't sleep. I can tell you all that the Day 1 lynch was indeed randomized. I went to random.org and asked for a random number out of 100. Gwath was odd numbers, Fea was even numbers. The random number generator tossed out #39, which is odd, so Gwath was executed.

[Rikae]

Ok, just woke up here , bear with me - but why on earth is everyone suddenly treating Izzy as if she is some sort of known innocent? We don't even know why she wasn't lynched, and the person lynched in her stead was the ranger, and yet you all assume she's good? Did I miss something? :rolleyes:

Well, assuming no one will want to lynch Izzy with her halo of nearly-lynched immunity or whatever it is, I suppose I'll analyze some others - Kath, perhaps, or Brinn, or Lari - some I haven't really gotten much of a read on yet. However, I'll be seriously busy toDay, so I may not get around to it. Schoolwork calls...

There are fewer ordos than special roles now, for what it's worth. It amuses me. :D

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

And you know Shasta has got to be entertained thus far. I mean just think of all the Werewolfing stars there are here. There's Fea, me... um, Fea, and.... me. And Fea of course. A regular VIP show right there, wouldn't you say, m'dear? ;)

You trouble maker. :p

Okay, so...

Nogrod!?

Why does everybody always kill Nogrod?

This is a legitimate question: why does Nog always die via a bandwagon that I'm not part of shortly after he and I have a spat and I say that, regardless of the spat, I think he's innocent? No wonder he thinks I'm capable of staging hyper-dramatic coups, given the frequency with which this situation occurs.

*is sleepy and hungry*

The Night kill...

So we know that the wolves and the BQ get to kill at Night. We know nothing about the WQ (who, for all we know, is Shasta dressed in drag, doing the hula).

The options, as I can see them, are:

1) The BQ's kill was stopped by the Black Ranger (suggesting that the kill choice was Black)

2) The BQ's kill choice was stopped by the WQ (suggesting that the WQ has saving powers)

2a) The BQ tried to kill the WQ and it didn't work

3) The BQ didn't send in xer kill on time (which seems unlikely)

In the instance of #1, the BQ would be free to kill xer choice of last Night tomorrow, because the Black Ranger can't protect twice in a row. This would imply that the BQ wants to pick off the wolves, which makes total sense to me: it's easy for a person who is on xer own team to hide out during the Day, but how long can xe survive with another team killing at Night as well, plus two Seers, plus a WQ with unknown powers? Besides, the BQ, as far as I'm aware, in the instance that it's just xer and the wolves left, doesn't win even though the village is gone. So if the wolves massacre the village? The BQ goes down too. Also, you only need one wolf to make a wolf kill at Night. Why would the BQ risk so much by not trying to kill one or two if the opportunity arises?

In the instance of #2, we (and presumably the BQ) don't know the nature of the WQ's power, so it's possible that the BQ could stubbornly keep trying to kill whomever xe tried to kill last Night, and could keep failing. This holds true for 2a as well: it's possible that the WQ can't die at the hands of the BQ, but since we don't know, I'm making this up as I go.

In the event of option three, it would be a pointless waste of typing skills for Shasta to have said,

Then, by clumsiness, one of the two wizards bumped the board. One of the pieces rocked for a moment, and seemed about to fall, but another piece moved at the last second. The falling piece clacked hard against the other piece and reversed its momentum, coming to a rocking halt back firmly on the board.

So, by clumsiness... And one of the two wizards. It's not a wizards game, so are Gandalf and Sauron metaphors for actual players? Should we be thinking of the B&W Queens as ringleaders? Or worse, are there Kings? Except that skews our numbers, and I feel like Shasta would have warned us. So I'm kind of assuming (plus he suggested as much) that this is just creative narration.

However a piece nearly fell off the board, that much he says, but was saved by the move of another piece. Shasta doesn't say which pieces, but unless the White Queen is killing people at Night, I'm going to assume (I think this is a fair assumption) that the BQ had a Ranger of some variety get in the way of last Night's work.

Sorry if I'm not being crisp and organized; I'm trying to be thorough, but I need breakfast and I don't know when it's going to happen. About half the players could tell you that I'm Incredible Hulk-ish when I'm hungry. "You wouldn't like me when I'm... hungry. Laura hungry. Laura smash."

Anyway, to summarize: the BQ seems to have attempted, and the most likely occurence, based on the mod's narration, is that the kill choice was protected.

Which means that the BQ stumbled upon - or strided confidently into - something.

Which gives me something new to think about: how does the BQ choose xer kills? I hate having roles that are hard to trace. You can find a seer, and you can say confidently, "this person isn't this role" about ones with specific constraints, but I loathe not knowing the level of vulnerability of bad guys, and the details of the good guys. I know the WQ is on our side, or she wouldn't be labeled WQ, but what if she's kind of like the BQ in that she's definitely opposed to the contrasting side, but isn't necessarily on the side of the rest of the Whites? What if there are two werebear-type characters in play, both of whom are attempting to be the last player standing?

*grumble*

Sorry, that was my belly. A banana and coffee aren't good enough to make me functional. I'm going to search through Day One posts for something I shouldn't talk about. I'll let you know if I find anything worth mentioning.

[wilwarin538]

Just checking in really quickly, will be back with much more in a few hours.

Here are my lists as they stand now:

Thinking guilty:
Mnemo
Sally because of below post
Well, quite frankly, I knew he was innocent. Now by 'know' I don't mean I knew with 100% certainty, because only the bishop(s) and the mod can know that and I am none of the above. I only mean that I had a heavy suspicion that he was innocent, and even an inkling that he could be gifted, though I obviously didn't want to say that and get him Night killed. So yesterDay, like the Day before, I made the best choice I could under the circumstances, the more valuable of two innocents rather than the lesser of two evils if you will.
So for pretty much the same reason I found Mnemo suspicious yesterday, people who say they "knew" someone was innocent, that bugs me.
Also, Eonwe from his posts from Day 1

Not really liking but probably won't vote for unless they say something later I don't like:
Durelin
Lariren
Hansy

Not sure of:
Fea and phantom, these two are so frustrating :rolleyes:
Kath, posted more yesterday but not enough for me to get a read, will have more later

Pretty confident about:
Izzy
Brinn
Rikae

Like I said, back after a few hours of studying with more.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Now I realize Phantom was being silly (and he did explain himself toDay) but that's two Days in a row in which Brinn has influenced the....oh my giddy aunt. Phantom may be right. And if anyone makes sense for the double vote power, it's her.

If you think Brinniel is the WQ, which is what I surmise from your post, why are you talking about it openly?

Nothing; just a bit of punnery. Under different circumstances that would've looked like a veiled reveal.

Either that or it was a veiled reveal. *mutters darkly*

Would anybody at all be surprised if Sally wasn't being wholly innocent in her flippant remarks?

---

Oh yeah-

Shasta:

++MITH

---

I think Sally was talking about her computer. Yes, apparently she has a name for her computer. Though strange that of all names, it is called Hunter...

Precisely. My computer is named Joe, and who would normally care? But if I was playing in a werewolf game where there was a role called 'Joe,' I wouldn't run around shouting about Joe unless I wanted people to notice and think about it.

why on earth is everyone suddenly treating Izzy as if she is some sort of known innocent?

I'm not. I landed on her through process of elimination, fair and square, and nothing has happened since I voted for her to make me think she's squeaky clean. So while I'm perfectly willing to change my vote if I run into a better one, she's still fair game. I think it's downright strange how she escaped the noose.

*watches people in the library boredly*

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Upon reflection, my last post seems more grouchy than usual. I apologize for its tone, and beg understanding of my idiot body's inability to function without real food at frequent intervals. I shouldn't post at all until after balanced meals. :(

[Durelin]

Okay, here is what I was typing up yesterDay to post when my *insert expletives here* internet died on me...

So, here are some random suspicion lists I came up with while showering:

Possible Baddies:
Lariren - Seems generally defensive
the phantom - I think he's being subtly bold. Kath said "he's too laid back, too not involved to be something important" and that's basically why I suspect him a bit. I think the manipulating will come when it needs to, and otherwise he's playing it cool. But what does that mean? Not sure.
Izzy -
Mnemosyne - She seems like the perfect grizzly. I have no idea why.

In the middle leaning towards baddie:
Brinniel
Eonwe
Mirandir

Probable Innocents:
Fea - I think.
Kath - She is the same Kath as always, whether good or bad, except a little flippant, so I think she's good.
Nogrod - As Fea described him as "obsessive," I think he's innocent. I think he plays it more smoothly and less on emotion when bad. Though actually I think he would be a good cobbler candidate.

Have no idea:
Sally
wilwa
Hansy

So yeah. I echo Fea. Nogrod?! And phantom, I have never seen more of a BS explanation for a vote.

Remember how I said the manipulating would come? Well look what happened yesterDay!

++the phantom

Even if I'm wrong, and he's not a werecreature, he deserves it for all this saving people nonsense.

I guess I wouldn't mind seeing Sally go at this point, either, but I like her more. :p And (fiiine, I'll give a legitimate reason here) I feel more certain at this point about phantom.

I have to go to class soon so I will explain/argue more my points about phantom later, promise. Hopefully not too much later.

[Durelin]

Sally is acting really weird (just went over toDay's posts more), but I am always more inclined to lean towards the sneakier seeming person (and I mean, it's Sally...acting weird....). I think she can keep it cool when she wants to, regardless of how boundless her insanity is.

Brinniel I have no idea.

And I don't want to focus just on them, because that's stupid.

I'm mostly going to focus on phantom. I can only hope he doesn't enjoy it too much.

[satansaloser2005]

Sally is acting really weird (just went over toDay's posts more), but I am always more inclined to lean towards the sneakier seeming person (and I mean, it's Sally...acting weird....). I think she can keep it cool when she wants to, regardless of how boundless her insanity is.

Brinniel I have no idea.

And I don't want to focus just on them, because that's stupid.

I'm mostly going to focus on phantom. I can only hope he doesn't enjoy it too much.

Aw shanks, love. I'm glad you're aware of my weirdness which, I assure you, is for a darn good reason. Well, a darn good reason if you're a villager, that is. If you're a wolfie you may not appreciate it, but I'm not all that much of a people pleaser if you haven't noticed.


And you know he'll enjoy it. :p


I've got an hour and a half before I'm to see a man about a duck....erm, I mean a duck about lunch. *shifty eyes* I'll get to my Willa analysis now, although I'll probably have a look at Durie too just to see what I find. Not sure which I'll get done first, so if it ends up being Durie don't be too surprised. Back soon I hope!

[Durelin]

Oh. I forgot there was a cobbler in this game.

[Durelin]

Oh, hey. So Sally's the Black Rook and was attacked by the Werebear last night and was protected by phantom the Black Knight (*points to arrow icon*)? Cause then she's a goner soon anyway.

Or she's the cobbler.

[satansaloser2005]

Oh. I forgot there was a cobbler in this game.

Non-sequitor much? Or are you saying that someone in particular is the cobbler? I'm just a tad confused.


Anyway, currently working on my analyses, promise, so I'll be back soon, but I decided to refresh the thread real quick and wanted to know what Durie was talking about.


EDIT: x'd with Durie. Honey you couldn't be more wrong. Stop being such a pessimist and think on the bright side. Both Phantom and I are still here. :)

[Hansy]

Double fail for me... Mira was innocent, and Nogrod was the ranger. Probably it's better for everyone if I stick with other people's suspicions, since mine are downright disastrous.

I'll try to work something out from the voting yesterday, at least... seems it's been figured why Nogrod was lynched instead of Izzy.
(also, it's two days in a row that people go voting who I did after I go to bed... it happened with Fea, then again with Nogrod. Weird, at least :confused:)

[satansaloser2005]

Double fail for me... Mira was innocent, and Nogrod was the ranger. Probably it's better for everyone if I stick with other people's suspicions, since mine are downright disastrous.

I'll try to work something out from the voting yesterday, at least... seems it's been figured why Nogrod was lynched instead of Izzy.
(also, it's two days in a row that people go voting who I did after I go to bed... it happened with Fea, then again with Nogrod. Weird, at least :confused:)


Nothing's really been figured out. We have speculation and theories, but Shasta's confirmed nothing and, if anything, the revelation that Gwath was in fact lynched randomly detracts from the theory that has been presented. Well, unless you go with my theory (which I'll get to in a bit) which works perfectly. But something tells me you won't like that one. Heh.

Just because your suspicions aren't right doesn't mean you should stop trying. Give us a list or something, just flesh out what you're thinking a bit more, and I'm sure you'll be fine. :)

[Lariren Shadow]

The other thing is that apparently the Queen got blocked. Now, given previous narrations, I think it's safe to say that there's more going on in this game than we had reckoned.

But if the not-dead person was indeed a Black Knight save, that implies that whoever it was was evil. And since the Knight can't protect two days in a row...

So this might be naive to say, but does it really imply that whoever didn't die is therefore evil? Yes it would make more sense for the Black Knight to be protecting the other baddies, but what if xe wasn't? I know its far fetched and such, but it is slightly possible. I have no idea why xe would do it. Maybe the other wolves thought they were safe enough for a Night? Not sure, but there is no assuming there that I can see. In my twisted logic that is.

This is also discounting what others have said about the WQ having the ability to save someone. If that were the case than maybe whoever was the target looked innocent enough to the WQ to save.

I know I'm a bit thick but go with me on this one. Day One it was a tie between Gwath and Fea. Brinn put in her vote for Gwath at the last minute, and Gwath was the unfortunate loser of the tie. (What if it really wasn't a tie?) Day Two Izzy was technically ahead, but Brinn put in her vote for Noggie and he somehow managed to perish. (What if she pushed the vote into a tie?) I'm just saying. Shasta didn't mention a tie on the second Day, but if that's the case he wouldn't anyway, since it's a secret role.

Does that make sense to anyone else? Or should I don a white straitjacket and take Hunter to the happy home to post for the rest of the Day?

Brinn's vote was the tie on Day 1. She was the second Nog voter before he even really looked like a lynch.

What is more interesting about yesterDay's vote is that I think Izzy's retraction and vote for Nog counted but not Sally's. They were both at the same time and Izzy's put her and Nog at the tie.

If we do think the WQ get's an extra vote or something here are who voted for Nog:
Hansy
Brinn
the phantom
Izzy in a retaction.

Some people may appear on multiple lists, some may appear on none.

Werecreatures
Brinn
Fea
Hansy
Durie (just a hunch, though I know she's been gone so I won't lynch her now)

Spefically the Black Queen
Brinn
Hansy

Hiding in the dark corners (could go either way)
Mnemo
Kath


Probably innocent, at least for now
Izzy
Rikae (What? Inconceivable!)
Phantom
Steve (pity the sick man if nothing else)

Definitely innocent in my book
Sally
Shasta
Mith
Legate
Nilp
Lommie
Agan
Greenie


Am I such an enigma that I'm not on?:Merisu:


Brinn I did like your theories in this post as well. They did make sense and sort of go with my whole thoughts about not knowing really who the Black Knight protected

I think Sally was talking about her computer. Yes, apparently she has a name for her computer. Though strange that of all names, it is called Hunter...

My old computer was named Denethor. I wonder what that says about me...

Which gives me something new to think about: how does the BQ choose xer kills? I hate having roles that are hard to trace. You can find a seer, and you can say confidently, "this person isn't this role" about ones with specific constraints, but I loathe not knowing the level of vulnerability of bad guys, and the details of the good guys. I know the WQ is on our side, or she wouldn't be labeled WQ, but what if she's kind of like the BQ in that she's definitely opposed to the contrasting side, but isn't necessarily on the side of the rest of the Whites? What if there are two werebear-type characters in play, both of whom are attempting to be the last player standing?

I agree with most of the post and think that this sums up what I think. We don't know what happened with either yesterDay's lynch or how the BQ's kill was stopped last Night. It was blocked but we're not sure if it was the doing of the WQ or the Black Knight.

Mira was also an interesting Night kill. Not going to lie I was expecting to find either Fea, the phantom, or Sally dead toDay. It makes me need to reevaluate some players.

Oh and special vote:

++Agan

Edit: x-posted since 395...the site stopped working on me.

[satansaloser2005]

For Lari:


Heh I did say some people wouldn't be on it. And yes, you are an enigma. ;)



I asked Shasta, and my vote did indeed count. Everyone's counted, is what he told me, though that's all he told me, the little son of a mother. Don't worry, that was my first thought too, but it is not in fact the case.


I'm always worried when Phantom, Fea, and such other crazy kids are around (Rikae too, and I just realized I've been completely ignoring the poor girl). I want to know why they haven't been targeted by either the black team or the Queen herself, since they obviously can't all be the Queen, and all of them couldn't have been 'saved' last Night even if they were evil. Very interesting to point out. Of course I'm surprised I'm not dead too, but the baddies usually keep me around and hope I get myself lynched for no good reason so I'm less surprised that I'm around than I am about the others. *shrug* Maybe they just think I'm cute? :Merisu:

[Durelin]

Honey you couldn't be more wrong. Stop being such a pessimist and think on the bright side. Both Phantom and I are still here.

Now that seems like a non-sequitur. :p

[satansaloser2005]

Now that seems like a non-sequitur. :p

Heh. Just call me Chekhov, love.


Oh, and I'm analyzing you currently, so stop posting so I don't keep falling behind. :p

[Lariren Shadow]

I asked Shasta, and my vote did indeed count. Everyone's counted, is what he told me, though that's all he told me, the little son of a mother. Don't worry, that was my first thought too, but it is not in fact the case.

Now that is interesting because then Izzy did get the most votes. Which means the theory that the WQ might get more votes or more power is there. Maybe the WQ gets to switch the players around, so to speak. Like maybe xe thought that Nog was more guilty than Izzy so, since Nog was in second, got to have Nog lynched over Izzy for the good of the village. Which might mean that, since the BQ was blocked last Night, and possibly wanted to take out Izzy, that Izzy could have been protected by the Black Knight.

All this means is that I'm beginning to think Izzy more guilty than not. I mean, the Black Knight could have protected her out of some selflish foolish reason, but now that I think that more over its more likely that's not the case.

Edit: x-posted with Dury and Sally.

[Rikae]

Usually when the loudmouth attention hogs stay alive, it means they're either completely off track, or there is a baddie hiding among them. Which doesn't really make sense, since I think Fea and tp (particularly tp) look innocent, and I'm sure that I, at least, am not entirely on the wrong track.

The only reasonable explanation is that I'm evil.
++Rikae
:D

Durie, you mean Sally's the cobbler? Why so?

By the way, Hansy's post above strikes me as way too apologetic-newbie-card-trying-to-look-innocent-ish. Reeks of it. He's not new to the game, and if Shasta knew it, it might have amused him to make Hansy evil and have everyone give him a free "newbie pass" for half the game. *grumbles*

I'll try to come back with some actual analysis at some point.

EDIT: X'd with everything since the Sally post I was responding to (about me, tp and Fea being alive).

[Durelin]

Durie, you mean Sally's the cobbler? Why so?

*shrug* She's confusing me, so maybe?

Speaking of vote counting, could someone's vote have counted as two?

Another post for you, Sally! :p

[Durelin]

Oh, I see that double-vote idea's already been put forward.

I could see switching my vote to Izzy...

[Isabellkya]

I am here, and I'm going to finish my lunch while I read what I've missed.

++Mr Bombadil! He is real to some people.

[Lariren Shadow]

In an attempt to say that I really don't think, looking at things, that the WQ gets two votes but could subsitute the second place lynch for the first here's my facts to back it up. Day 1 was a tie and here are the votes for those tied:

Day 1 votes for Gwath:
Steve
Izzy
the phantom
Brinn

Day 1 votes for Fea:
Hansy
Nog
Gwath
Sally

So by reason these people should all have one vote because it was a tie. Randomly chosen.

Day 2 votes for Nog:
Hansy
Brinn
the phantom
Izzy

None of those people could have two votes. Hansy voted for Fea Day 1 and if he was the WQ then Fea would have died then. While Brinn and the phantom both voted for the lynchee on both Days, I still don't think that either of them has a double vote. Whether or not they are more than they seem is left to be seen. I'm more inclinded to think the phantom is innocent over Brinn though. I don't think Izzy is at all the WQ so there's nothing to say about her.

Edit: x-posted with Dury and Izzy.

[Mnemosyne]

Excellent thinking, Lari!

phantom did mention that the whole "double vote" thing could have other stipulations on it, but now that we've gotten it confirmed that Day One was indeed a tie I'm inclined to think that the "double vote" was just a theory put out there which we've been focusing on entirely too much.

Which makes phantom look even more suspicious to me, as he had to know that this theory would not be the first one that would spring to people's minds.

In response to your "how do we know it implies?" comment: that's why I said "implies." Implies means you can make a logical conclusion that it is so, not that it is so. I have no clue why the baddies would diverge from a rational pattern of protecting themselves, but it's still a distinct possibility.

No, onto Rikae's point about Izzy: I'm still not treating Izzy as an innocent. I'm decidedly neutral about her. But I do still find it odd that she got four early, non-bandwaggony-looking votes that were never gainsaid.

Maybe I should just get off my Izzy-voter high horse; it looks as if no one's taking me up on it. Maybe I'm just crazy...

Won't have time to look into anyone in any great detail until a couple of hours from now.

[the phantom]

None of those people could have two votes.
Yes, they could've. If it's a power that can only be used once.

Or perhaps there is someone whose vote doesn't count at all.

Or maybe the WQ can, on one day, wave off the top lynch candidate.

Or perhaps the WQ is immune to the lynch. Or to one single lynch. Or immune till she auto-dies at a preset time- Shasta: "You are the WQ. You cannot be killed, but will exit the game automatically after Day 4."

There are quite a few possibilities, and only one chess piece knows the truth of it.

[satansaloser2005]

What if the White Queen can say "hey, this person's vote doesn't count"? I would suspect, in that case, it is a day-to-day pick of who doesn't count, and thus they can protect whoever they think their target will be going after. It's just another thought to throw into the pile.


I forgot to add that, conversely, they could choose someone's vote to count twice on a given Day.

[the phantom]

I'm torn. On the one hand I want people to analyze so I can analyze their analysis. On the other hand I'm afraid this is going to keep us from our actual job, if not help the wolfiekinses (in case they're not all Gifted by Divine Grace with Brilliance and Intellectual Superiority like phantom).
Perhaps when I and others do analysis and offer possibilities and such, we're well aware that the WereBeasts are reading them and looking for ideas, and perhaps we're not saying everything we think and/or know in order to mislead them.
Ok, just woke up here , bear with me - but why on earth is everyone suddenly treating Izzy as if she is some sort of known innocent? We don't even know why she wasn't lynched, and the person lynched in her stead was the ranger, and yet you all assume she's good? Did I miss something?
Of course Izzy is innocent. Pure as the wind-driven snow. She was left alive for us to lynch. And that conclusion is based upon an indisputable undeniable fact- the fact that I'm completely guessing and could be wrong. But let's pretend like I'm right.
There's Fea, me... um, Fea, and.... me. And Fea of course. A regular VIP show right there, wouldn't you say, m'dear?
You trouble maker. :p
Oh, but you love me, don't you?
Why does everybody always kill Nogrod?
I'm almost certain it wasn't everybody. ;)

And we kinda sorta didn't kill him either. The lynch was wacky.

[Mnemosyne]

Can we just shut up about any special voting powers the WQ may or may not have and start suspecting already?

...Yeah, I'm no longer torn.

phantom, the longer you keep this up the worse you look.

[Mnemosyne]

Perhaps when I and others do analysis and offer possibilities and such, we're well aware that the WereBeasts are reading them and looking for ideas, and perhaps we're not saying everything we think and/or know in order to mislead them.

I know. There are a number of things that I'm not surprised haven't been brought up.

At the same time, WereBeasts are allowed to keep their own counsel, have already discussed this among themselves (unless they're the Queen) and they know (although you may be the cobbler) that you're not one of them. I know you have a high opinion of yourself, but how much good do you really think you're doing?

[the phantom]

the phantom - I think he's being subtly bold. Kath said "he's too laid back, too not involved to be something important" and that's basically why I suspect him a bit. I think the manipulating will come when it needs to, and otherwise he's playing it cool. But what does that mean? Not sure.
Remember how I said the manipulating would come? Well look what happened yesterDay!
And I manipulated how? I was barely around in the final stretch. Only one Nog vote came from me, and technically it shouldn't have been enough to accomplish a lynch. I wish I knew what manipulation you are trying to credit me with, because truthfully I consider it a compliment when somebody tells me I have successfully manipulated people. Explain your compliment please, Dur.
Even if I'm wrong, and he's not a werecreature, he deserves it for all this saving people nonsense.
Really? It's bad to save people?

Now, if Fea and Izzy are Wolves then perhaps you have something, but I'm thinking they're not. Quite strongly. And for all you know those two are the White Queen and White Bishop, so would you still suspect me for saving them if that is the truth? Sorry dear, but not a great case. Though I promise if those two turn out to be bad that I will be lynched quietly without a fight.
was protected by phantom the Black Knight (*points to arrow icon*)?
The arrow icon shows up in every post I've ever made on the Downs. ;)

EDIT: punc

[the phantom]

I know you have a high opinion of yourself, but how much good do you really think you're doing?
We'll find out when this is all over. I'm pretty certain I've already done one rather good thing, but we'll see.

EDIT: wrong person quote

[the phantom]

Nearly forgot...

++Mith

[Hansy]

Day 1 votes for Gwath:
Steve
Izzy
the phantom
Brinn

Day 2 votes for Nog:
Hansy
Brinn
the phantom
Izzy



Wow, just look at what those two lynches have in common... I think we may be up to something here.

(those red votes, what is a cameo?!)

[Durelin]

And I manipulated how? I was barely around in the final stretch. Only one Nog vote came from me, and technically it shouldn't have been enough to accomplish a lynch. I wish I knew what manipulation you are trying to credit me with, because truthfully I consider it a compliment when somebody tells me I have successfully manipulated people. Explain your compliment please, Dur.

The whole "oh, is poor Izzy doomed" thing. Trying to save people at the last minute for no apparent reason is manipulating. The "what can we do, who can we vote for" thing that always seems to happen at the end involves manipulating. But I don't care about that. It's barely there, you're right. What I DO care about is you're silly explanation toDay about how you though Nog was innocent, and even thought maybe he was a gifted! Oh, but maybe he wasn't, so you voted for him to save Izzy...why? I guess because she seemed more innocent? I've already ranted about that I think. Though actually you're only reason stated yesterDay for voting Nogrod was "because you felt like it".

Really? It's bad to save people?

Once again, I already did my spiel about that. You voted for someone you thought was probably innocent to save another person who you thought was probably innocent.

The arrow icon shows up in every post I've ever made on the Downs.

Sorry, in any other contexts I don't bother to read your posts. :p

We'll find out when this is all over. I'm pretty certain I've already done one rather good thing, but we'll see.

I think you need a new strategy! You're not the Good Wizard, there is no reason for you to be so bold.

So, right now...

Voted for:
phantom

Probable Baddies:
Sally
Brinniel
Izzy

Maybe Baddies:
Hansy
Lari
Mnemo

Maybe Innocent:
Rikae
Fea

Have no idea:
wilwa
Eonwe (who might be modfired if he does not vote today? :\)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Oh, but you love me, don't you?

I do. More than the wolves, I'm reasonably sure anyway...

I've been watching the goings on while doing my illustration homework and I'd merely like to point out that the only two people who said anything at all interesting made me laugh at the contradictory nature of what they said, but I'd much rather not discuss it openly.

Instead, I shall make a List.

We shouldn't kill:

the phantom, wilwa, Lari, Durelin

We should let convalesce a bit more:

Steve

We should force more participation out of:

Kath, Hansy

We should lynch one of the following:

Izzy, Brinniel, Sally, Rikae, Mnemo

[Isabellkya]

It definitely looks as if someone was protected during the night, though I don't think there is any certainty as to whom did the protecting. At first glance, to me it looks like the BK is the one responsible. Though with not knowing what the WQ is capable of; there is no ruling xer out.

I was thinking that maybe the WQ has something akin to an anonymous vote(s). Where during the night, they tell Shasta whom they want to place a vote(s) on the next Day. So, essentially they get to vote for more than one person each Day. It could explain it - rather than their own vote counting for more than one; which doesn't look like it quite fits. Though, if it were the case of an anonymous vote(s) deal; the first Day, they didn't place it for Gwath or Fea. But looks like they could've voted for Nog. Explaining why he was lynched over myself.


Of course, that's too much for an innocent to hope for. I think it's still in the Queen's interest to keep those wolves around for a little while longer.

I disagree. The only interest involved for the BQ to keep the wolves around longer - is the wolves.
We have 13 players alive; 6 of which are ordos, and 7 which are "special".
Which brings us to 8 innocents : 5 baddies.
So I think we are dealing with a pretty slim margin, with room for very little error.


My thought, is if the WQ were responsible for it - wouldn't Shasta of attributed xer for it; rather than Sauron?
An interesting thought. Though, what does that imply? That Sauron is not only controlling the game but is in it as well? Bah, at this point I'm feeling like anything is possible...
I am beginning to agree with what I believe Mnemosyne and probably another said - that we can't seem to gain a certainty of understanding of what goes on behind the scenes and in front of us, based on the plots.
I keep forgetting that overall it is a chess game, rather than just plots. Rereading the other plots made this clear. That even if the save was due to the WQ - Shasta would mention either Sauron or Gandalf; since they are the players.

So this might be naive to say, but does it really imply that whoever didn't die is therefore evil? Yes it would make more sense for the Black Knight to be protecting the other baddies, but what if xe wasn't? I know its far fetched and such, but it is slightly possible. I have no idea why xe would do it. Maybe the other wolves thought they were safe enough for a Night? Not sure, but there is no assuming there that I can see. In my twisted logic that is.

I don't think there is an implication of whom got saved. Just that the BQ was robbed of her kill by either the BK, or the WQ if xe has protecting powers.
If it was because of the BK, I see no reason why they would be protecting someone other than whom is on their team. I suppose I could see them branching out and protecting the BP, but I think it a less likely possibility. Unless they were certain of the BP and whom the BP was helping out/working for.
In the case of the WQ, they could've been protecting a baddie, or an innocent. If xe has protecting powers. Again, I think the only certain thing - is that the BQ did not get to kill someone last Night.

My computer goes by the name of Huey.

Now, that I've caught up. I will go analyzing some people and possibly make a list of where people lie in my mind.

[the phantom]

Durelin- it is obvious you didn't read my vote explanation even halfway carefully. You'll notice that I said I did suspect him. Why do you keep saying that I didn't?

My explanation is that I thought Nog was not an Ordo (White Pawn). I was swinging back and forth as far as thinking him Gifted White or Gifted Black, and I was leaning slightly towards Black. Part of this was due to the fact that there were five of them versus three White Gifted. I was also reasonably sure he was not the Seer. So after mentally saying "Do it! Don't! Do it! Don't!" again and again I just sucked it up and went for it. The decision was made easier by the fact that I felt Izzy was White.

Anyway, now do you understand my explanation, and will stop saying things about it that are the opposite of what I said?

[Isabellkya]

My post #425 was crossposted with all of the posts; starting with Lariren's #412. The edit page isn't working for me.. again.

[Durelin]

Durelin- it is obvious you didn't read my vote explanation even halfway carefully. You'll notice that I said I did suspect him. Why do you keep saying that I didn't?

Ahh, yeah, I mixed up things you said yesterDay (or maybe even the Day before...they start to run together...) with your post toDay.

But at least re-reading that post I know now that you can't really blame me for voting you.

[satansaloser2005]

Blast. I keep getting interrupted but my Durie analysis is in fact coming.



Right now I'm still unsure about Brinn (to clarify, by unsure I mean I feel uneasy about her) so I'd definitely go for lynching her. Hansy as well. Phantom stays, at least for now, and so do Kath, Steve, Izzy (although I suppose I'll bend on that), and Lari. I don't feel comfortable enough lynching them, so while I won't go out of my way to stop a lynch for most of those players I won't support it either.

[wilwarin538]

Alrighty, so here's my list. I have two of my own White Queen theories that I'm also just gonna put out there, whether or not they've been suggested or not I'm not sure.

So I considered the role of the Queen in a real chess game, and they can do anything, go in any direction, lots of freedom lots of power. So I'm think prehaps the WQ is a ranger, seer and a hunter, and maybe as the ranger they can protect people from being lynched during the day, and maybe the WQ was protecting Izzy and that's why it got bumped down to Nog. Just a thought. My second theory is that maybe the WQ cannot be killed by us white pawns, and only by the blacks, and that would make Izzy the WQ. But I like my first theory and some of yours much better. Just putting it all out there.

My list, I find myself suspecting almost everyone, 1-10 (1-innocent, 10-guilty):

Durelin: Her early vote for phantom just freaks me out, maybe if it had been her last post of the day I wouldn't care but the fact that she's still posting a lot, I think she should have held off. 7

Fea: hmm, she's slowly starting to get me to lean bad for her, but definitely not enough to vote for her toDay. 6

Izzy: I was very sure of her yesterDay, and I still am, but her getting out of lynching definitely doesn't clear her, so that makes me just unsure, I think I'd like to wait and see what happens with her toNight. 5

phantom: He seems a bit off his game to me, maybe not quite as calm and collected as I remember him, but for now I am still a 5

Brinn: I still find myself very confortable with her. 3

Sally: Her post I quoted before still weirds me out, she's kinda starting to really bug me, I'm definitely very tempted to vote for her toDay. 9

Lariren: Still find she's very tip-toey, but still nothing huge is sticking out at me, participates more then I do so she's still mostly on my good side. 5

Rikae: Same as Brinn, still very comfortable with her. 3

Mnemo: my my, still don't feel good about her, may vote for her again today 8

Hansy: hmmmmm......wish I had more to say about him, but I'm afraid I do not. 6

Eonwe & Kath: consistently MIA, that just weirds me out 7

Therefore I will be voting for either Sally, Mnemo or perhaps Durelin, later on toDay.

For the next few hours I will be poking my head in here and there before I cast my vote.



oh and for Shasta:

++Mith
(thank you Sally!)


X'posted, with everyone since Fea

[the phantom]

But at least re-reading that post I know now that you can't really blame me for voting you.
Oh yes I can. I will have revenge! Someday!

[satansaloser2005]

[highlight ] whatever you want to type [ /highlight]

Only without the spaces within the brackets. :)

[Eönwë]

I still think there's something to be said for the fact that those initial Izzy votes were all so spread out early in the day, and all apparently arrived at by people who had "reasoned independently" and came to the same conclusion at the same time.

We now know one of them was Nog, a known innocent.

As I said, I don't know what was going on, but I didn't like the look of it. And I still don't, despite the fact that Nog did vote her.
Just because one person's innocent it doesn't mean they all are. In fact, it's more likely that one of the baddie's jumped on an innocent bandwaggon (and I mean ordos, as opposed to a bandwaggon being an innocent thing to to do- however, in the end it is the only way that someone gets lynched, and now I will end this extremely long sentence and bracket).

2) The White Queen is immune to the lynch and must be killed at night.
It might also be the otherr way around. Or maybe xe (are we still doing this?) can use someone else as a shield (who happened to be protected?)- maybe that last one's a little far-fetched.

[QUOTE=Mnemosyne;586541]Also, I hope Eonwe and Durelin are both back and in working order! We can't give silent players a free pass forever, even though they're having RL troubles.[QUOTE]
Well, I'm back.
Yes sir, I am. My head's still a little fuzzy, but I'll see what I can do.


PS. Sally, is it just me or are you playing a little riskily (and I don't mean for yourself)?- Or are you the Black Pawn?

[satansaloser2005]

Gandalf was always a manipulative goody-goody (at least, good is his façade) egotist. It is hardly surprising that he treat many of us as pawns just as quickly and without remorse as Sauron would.

There will most certainly be blood and guts (I certainly hope so, anyway). My only advice to everyone at this point: let the wookie win.

Heh. Quite funny indeed. I totally read that as 'let the rookie win' though, and was about to make a huge analysis on it when I realized I just can't read. Blah.

Nay, nay, a Jedi Knight of Many Colours!

Hehe!

I'm afraid I have a party to go to, so I will be posting and running here... I will be around more after toDay, promise. Unless something goes terribly wrong. I'm a realist.

And of course Han shot first - I don't get why the heck it matters. All it proves is that he's quicker to the draw and Greedo isn't that horrible of a shot.

Anyway...there's already a few people I'd like to get rid of just for the sake of being rid of them, but part of my beef with werewolf is when people simply play favorites...so I'm going to go for as random as possible here.

++Sally

Just looking at who has posted, anyway, I picked out her on some sort of gut-reaction thing. The typical excuse. It's like pleading the 5th...my stomach told me to do it!

Really I quite enjoy your presence, my dear, but...

See you all tomorrow...quite sorry, I really will have more time (if y'all will let me...) after this. Today I happen to have basically none.

Edit: Fea, I have a feeling you and I will be getting along better in this game...I came so close to voting one of the newbies for the sake of it...hmm, perhaps that means you are evil this time (though I didn't actuallly think you were at least by the end of that fateful day for me...but I'll shush, no relevance here). :p

So I was a random vote. Well, semi-random anyway. Okay by me. I'm not dead and the village isn't down yet another innocent so I'm cool with it.

Interesting dialogue with/about Fea, though. I'd love to look into their interactions more if I get a chance.

Man, poor Gwath...how many early lynches is that for him?

I love how the two lynchee possibilities were Fea and Fea's secondary attacker rather than her initial attacker. I guess because people are still obsessed with the bandwagon concept? I don't know.

Brinniel, as far as I can tell, did a 180 from voting Fea and to voting Gwath at the last minute.

And I love how Hansy summed up the whole thing.

But you know what, I have no desire to talk about that much more, because it normally ends up to be just a distracting mess. But on the other hand, I wouldn't mind seeing Fea gone at all. I get very sick of people saving one another at the loss of someone else simply because they like someone more. It only proves further that any sort of democratic system is a mindless popularity contest.

*shakes fist at the system*

Too bloody many. Yet again, I am upset that he was lynched, because he seemed really innocent to me, but unfortunately there's nothing I can do about it now.

As I said before I find Brinn's vote suspicious as well, and I find it interesting the way she reacts to the voting. I'll agree; too many times if it's a tie between two people some of us just vote to save our friends, and it's a horrible werewolf strategy.

tp - But I also don't recall you having any true suspicion of Gwath, so I guess you're just saying you felt you had a better read on her being innocent than on Gwath being so?

Either way I say vote for who you think is guilty. Kay, peoples? (So yesterDay I voted for someone I did not think guilty, but I did not think anyone guilty as it was an early vote and I admit I had not had the chance to read any of the thread since I had earlier posted.)

Also, if we goodly people do that, then the baddies have to follow our lead and vote for someone "they think is guilty". They have to try to make cases and things like that, rather than just make friends by saying "oh I think this poor soul up for lynch here is innocent, so I am going to save them!"

End of useless blather. Guess I'll start actually following what I preach later and talk about someone guilty.

I agree on this theory, although....erm, she voted me kind of out of the blue. Random and slightly hypocritical much? Then again I know she had internet trouble so I don't feel bad about letting it slide.

Okay, here is what I was typing up yesterDay to post when my *insert expletives here* internet died on me...

So, here are some random suspicion lists I came up with while showering:

Possible Baddies:
Lariren - Seems generally defensive
the phantom - I think he's being subtly bold. Kath said "he's too laid back, too not involved to be something important" and that's basically why I suspect him a bit. I think the manipulating will come when it needs to, and otherwise he's playing it cool. But what does that mean? Not sure.
Izzy -
Mnemosyne - She seems like the perfect grizzly. I have no idea why.

In the middle leaning towards baddie:
Brinniel
Eonwe
Mirandir

Probable Innocents:
Fea - I think.
Kath - She is the same Kath as always, whether good or bad, except a little flippant, so I think she's good.
Nogrod - As Fea described him as "obsessive," I think he's innocent. I think he plays it more smoothly and less on emotion when bad. Though actually I think he would be a good cobbler candidate.

Have no idea:
Sally
wilwa
Hansy

So yeah. I echo Fea. Nogrod?! And phantom, I have never seen more of a BS explanation for a vote.

Remember how I said the manipulating would come? Well look what happened yesterDay!

++the phantom

Even if I'm wrong, and he's not a werecreature, he deserves it for all this saving people nonsense.

I guess I wouldn't mind seeing Sally go at this point, either, but I like her more. And (fiiine, I'll give a legitimate reason here) I feel more certain at this point about phantom.

I have to go to class soon so I will explain/argue more my points about phantom later, promise. Hopefully not too much later.

If he's saving another innocent I don't see the problem with it. I'm just saying. Although yeah, it did/does look suspect. But dude. It's Phantom.

Yay! She likes me! :D

I think her list leaves a bit to be desired, in that many of the people she has in the suspicious categories seem very clean to me. I guess really all that means is that one of us is very wrong. Heh hope it's not me.


Sally is acting really weird (just went over toDay's posts more), but I am always more inclined to lean towards the sneakier seeming person (and I mean, it's Sally...acting weird....). I think she can keep it cool when she wants to, regardless of how boundless her insanity is.

Brinniel I have no idea.

And I don't want to focus just on them, because that's stupid.

I'm mostly going to focus on phantom. I can only hope he doesn't enjoy it too much.

I'm always like this, silly. And if I'm acting crazy you know it's for a reason. The reason I'm commenting on this post (again) is to say that you should keep in mind, the sneakier seeming person is not always the evil one. I'm sneaky but not evil. I think Brinn's evil and not too sneaky.

Oh. I forgot there was a cobbler in this game.

Covered this. Moving on.....

Oh, hey. So Sally's the Black Rook and was attacked by the Werebear last night and was protected by phantom the Black Knight (*points to arrow icon*)? Cause then she's a goner soon anyway.

Or she's the cobbler.

And again....so wrong. If I was doing that I'd be trying to get an innocent lynched toDay rather than myself and buy my packmates as much time as possible. I'm a team player, and I don't give up without a fight, so if I was evil I'd be trying to get some poor innocent fool killed, not try to actually catch a baddie as I'm doing now.

Now that seems like a non-sequitur.

Hun, my life is a non-sequitor.



Wow. I feel like most of this post has been defending myself, which is rubbish because I'm innocent. In short I know Durie suspects me and she's a tad hung up on me and Phantom but for now she isn't posing a threat to the village at large so I'm not terribly suspicious of her.

[satansaloser2005]

PS. Sally, is it just me or are you playing a little riskily (and I don't mean for yourself)?- Or are you the Black Pawn?



Yes, love, but don't worry. There's a reason for it. You know me, I like to cause enough stir that it tells me what I want to know.


EDIT: Yes as in I'm playing riskily, not yes I'm the Black Pawn. I am a white girl and proud of it, kthnxbye. (And no, that was not meant to be racist, just in case anyone wondered.)

[Eönwë]

So this might be naive to say, but does it really imply that whoever didn't die is therefore evil? Yes it would make more sense for the Black Knight to be protecting the other baddies, but what if xe wasn't? I know its far fetched and such, but it is slightly possible. I have no idea why xe would do it. Maybe the other wolves thought they were safe enough for a Night? Not sure, but there is no assuming there that I can see. In my twisted logic that is.This is possible, and in that case I would suspect that it was who they thought was the Black Pawn (cobbler), but maybe they just have another use for someone in the Day. :eek:

With all the WQ stuff, my new crazy is that maybe the xe gets to choose who gets lynched in the Day the Night before. You never know.


*Still reading this page (11)*

edit: ah, and maybe the WQ only gets to do this for every other Night.

edit 2: x-ed with Sally

[Eönwë]

Though I promise if those two turn out to be bad that I will be lynched quietly without a fight.
Really?

Really?

phantom did mention that the whole "double vote" thing could have other stipulations on it, but now that we've gotten it confirmed that Day One was indeed a tie I'm inclined to think that the "double vote" was just a theory put out there which we've been focusing on entirely too much..
Cobblerish tactics, I say! (not you Mnemi btw) Though I won't accuse one of many phantoms of cobblerism. Yet.

edit: x-ed with no-one. How sad! (and quiet)
edit2: AND there are 5 invisible members around (not including me)

[Eönwë]

Ok, I shall be voting shortly...

[the phantom]

I keep forgetting to mention the kill- Mira.

I mean really... Mira? She sure as heck wasn't the Seer. And the Night before, Nerwen sure as heck wasn't either.

In a sense, I believe the Black Queen and Black Pawn are helping us. I'm thinking that the WereWolves are making it a priority to avoid killing those two each Night, which has led them to make kills that are rather... safe.

Surely that can be used to find our culprits.

[the phantom]

Really?

Really?

Yes. A promise is a promise. Though I'm rather confident that I won't have to make good on that promise.

[wilwarin538]

Well, I think I will just be voting now, that way I can get to my studying and stop being distracted:

++Sally

For reasons stated above, she's weirding me out.

[Eönwë]

Ok, it comes down to this:

++Sally

Because it seems that she's trying to lead us astray with her comments and ideas, and making thinngs more complicated (more than usual). (I love you really Sally, but if you're evil then I can't not try to lynch you) She also seems a little more careful than usual at the same time. Sort of like she's doing the right stuff, but with the wrong intentions or something. Doing the same things as one of the good people, but purposefully bad. *is confused at self*

I think I suspect her more of being the BQ or BP, but she doesn't seem completely benign to me.


Ok, so I might be back just before DL, but I can't promise anything (It's 6am my time).

Bye for now!

PS. I think I'm the only European Downer left- maybe that's why it's so quiet.

edit: x-ed. Weird

[the phantom]

That's weird, Steve. You talk about Sally being the Black Pawn, and then vote for her. Basically, if you're right, then we don't lynch a WereCreature, there are two kills again, etc...

If you think you know who the Black Cobbler is, don't lynch xem. Try and get xem Night killed. Yes, there are ways to increase those odds. Read Mith's last game for examples.

[Kath]

Having been relatively happy about Mnemo and less so about sally yesterDay I find that my opinions have pretty much reversed themselves after toDay's posts. Mnemo all but yelling at phantom to stop talking about possible White Queen abilities was just very, very odd. There is almost no chance that he's going to get the answer right, we're going to have to wait until either a reveal or the final narration to get the answers to that, so it's interesting and it gets discussion going and it makes people take a really close look at the voting records but it isn't dangerous to the White Queen because quite honestly if phantom had figured out what the role actually was I don't believe he'd say it out loud.

sally on the other hand I think is making sense. She is having a good think about WQ possibilities and generally feels good to me. wilwa's vote for her I can sort of follow, there is logic behind it even if I disagree with it, whereas Eonwe's strikes me as a little odd. It's sort of come out of the blue from a little PS into full blown suspicion.

I'm not going to do a full analysis of everyone toDay. I'm simply too tired for it. I will hang around though and stick my nose in on occasion.

[Kath]

That's weird, Steve. You talk about Sally being the Black Pawn, and then vote for her. Basically, if you're right, then we don't lynch a WereCreature, there are two kills again, etc...
Also a good point. I think this was mentioned earlier anyway but there is no point in killing the Cobbler. If you think you've figured out who it is then you can simply ignore them, if you're not listening to them what harm can they do? But there's no point in killing them when there are other villains who have kills to use.

[Mnemosyne]

There is almost no chance that he's going to get the answer right, we're going to have to wait until either a reveal or the final narration to get the answers to that, so it's interesting and it gets discussion going and it makes people take a really close look at the voting records but it isn't dangerous to the White Queen because quite honestly if phantom had figured out what the role actually was I don't believe he'd say it out loud.

That's what I was thinking at the beginning of the Day, but if we've got our legion of ordos focused on it too much that may distract us from finding baddies.

Especially because it became fairly clear that the possible WQ capabilities everyone ended up focusing on are ones that require too much explanation to make sense (not that that means they aren't true, but still).

phantom may have been using this as his own evil-gauge, but that only helps him. It doesn't help the rest of the players, especially because we don't know if he's good or evil.

[Mnemosyne]

At the same time, Kath, keeping a cobbler alive, even if everyone thinks they have him figured out, until endgame when he can vote himself, is bad. Example: Kit's game.

[satansaloser2005]

Well said, Kath. Besides, I'm not the Black Pawn. Or the Black Anything, for that matter. Killing me, or at least killing me toDay, would be a grave mistake. If you must kill me kill me after I've had a Night to think about the game, perhaps make some choices that will impact the village for the good.


Sorry to be so cryptic, but....well, frankly I don't want to come right out and say what I want to say because I'm still trying to gauge reactions from a couple people. For now though I'd try killing someone else, perhaps Hansy, Brinn, or another suspect who is actually behaving suspiciously, rather than just speaking in a confusing manner.


That's all I ask. :)

[Isabellkya]

I forgot to add that, conversely, they could choose someone's vote to count twice on a given Day.

If they could choose someone's vote to count twice; then it would've brought the tally to a tie yesterDay. So then, wouldn't Shasta have just said it was a tie, and randomized. Or would he have kept it secret, so as not to reveal too much about the WQ?

- insert an unforeseen short break in here. -

Okay, on to trying to organize some thoughts..

Durelin - no idea

Feanor - she seems her normal self; though what that speaks about the role she holds, I've no idea. Undecided, yet she isn't making me uneasy.

phantom - is phantom. I can never get quite a clear read on him, since he always is his jump-around self. So far, nothing raises giant red flags about him. Though, the trouble with that - is you can never really tell when he is bluffing for real, telling the truth, or bluffing just to bluff. However, I think him innocent.

Brin - no idea

Sally - She worries me. More so, because toDay - I feel she is channeling phantom in her tone. There is nothing wrong with phantom (that I know of), but it is unsettling when he is coming out in another player.

Lariren - Hmm. I find her confusing. Whether it be because she is a confused innocent, or purposely looking confused to hide something; I am not quite sure.

wilwa - she feels innocent to me. Though I would like to see more from her.

Rikae - She seems a bit quiet to me. If I remember previous games correctly, she can be quite a talker.

Eonwe - He is in an unknown category. There isn't much to go off of, and hope he is able to contribute more as he feels better.

Mnemosyne - I'm quite in the middle on her. She makes quite sense-able posts, yet every now and again, something is written that is o.O

Kath - A bit undecided about her. Toward the end of yesterDay I had thought she needed analyzing, because I wasn't so keen on her seeming regurgitation of Nog's reasoning for a vote. I think I will do it anyhow, yet wait to see what she has to say for toDay.

Hansy - While I think him most probable to be an innocent, I am not as comfortable with him toDay; as I was the previous days. Mainly, because he started out quite strong with discussion, yet has kind of pittered since then. I wouldn't vote you toDay, though I would like to see more from you buddy.

....
Looking Innocent:
Phantom, Hansy, Rikae, Wilwa

Undecided:
Eonwe, Kath, Fea, Mnemosyne

Looking notsosparkly:
Sally, Lariren

No idea:
Brin, Durelin

I think I will begin looking at Brin and Durelin; and possibly Mnemosyne and Fea more closely if there is time.. and will wait to possibly look at Kath and Eonwe.

X'd since Sally's #429

[Kath]

Oh, because it's come up a couple of times I should mention, my reasoning for voting Izzy wasn't a regurgitation of Nog's reasoning. In fact if it was a repeat of anyone's suspicions it was Rikae's - it was what she said about Izzy that made me take a second look.

[Mnemosyne]

Sally, I don't trust you fruther than I can throw you. :p

[satansaloser2005]

An updated list

Not lynching toDay, even if it gets me killed
Izzy
Phantom
Rikae (:eek:)

Not lynching toDay unless I'm in severe danger and I have a change of heart about them
Durie
Steve

Not wanting to lynch toDay, but would go along with it
Willa
Lari
Mnemo

Meh. Either way.
Fea
Kath

"She's a witch! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmF_yXQkVh0&feature=related) Burn her!"
Brinn
Hansy

[satansaloser2005]

Votes are as follows



Durie-->Phantom
Willa-->Sally
Steve-->Sally (Sally 2, Phantom 1)

[the phantom]

This is beginning to look like Izzy from yesterday. Only today Sally is the flavor.

Sally definitely isn't helping things, though. She's not going about her self preservation in the right way. I'm actually starting to lean towards her as the Cobbler after all. I was thinking she was a White Pawn before, but now... but of course if she's a WereCreature she wants us to believe she's the Cobbler.

But then she's been like this for a while, and she has only now intensified it. Consistency says something I believe. That makes me think she is more likely to be a Black Pawn than any sort of Black Royalty.

If you're White, m'dear, you need to rethink your strategy. I'd love to protect you with my full weight, but you aren't making it easy.

[satansaloser2005]

This is beginning to look like Izzy from yesterday. Only today Sally is the flavor.

Sally definitely isn't helping things, though. She's not going about her self preservation in the right way. I'm actually starting to lean towards her as the Cobbler after all. I was thinking she was a White Pawn before, but now... but of course if she's a WereCreature she wants us to believe she's the Cobbler.

But then she's been like this for a while, and she has only now intensified it. Consistency says something I believe. That makes me think she is more likely to be a Black Pawn than any sort of Black Royalty.

If you're White, m'dear, you need to rethink your strategy. I'd love to protect you with my full weight, but you aren't making it easy.

Honey, I know you're clever; you'll figure it out.

I miss Nerwen. :(


And for the record, you're all going color blind. *hugs you all* It's not my fault I'm the way I am. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xEzGIuY7kw)

[the phantom]

Honey, I know you're clever; you'll figure it out.
:rolleyes:
I'm thinking I do have it figured out. Not what you wanted me to "figure out", but what's really going on.

Stop this hinting nonsense. You aint the White Bishop. You're the Cobbler and you're paving the way for a false reveal and hoping you can get the White Bishop to reveal or at least make xemself vulnerable by disagreeing with your claim.

[Mnemosyne]

phantom, I don't think that's what she's hinting.

[satansaloser2005]

:rolleyes:
I'm thinking I do have it figured out. Not what you wanted me to "figure out", but what's really going on.

Stop this hinting nonsense. You aint the White Bishop. You're the Cobbler and you're paving the way for a false reveal and hoping you can get the White Bishop to reveal or at least make xemself vulnerable by disagreeing with your claim.

Absolutely, completely, and in all other ways....untrue.


I am not the White Bishop. I will at no point be saying that I am the White Bishop, the White Queen, or any black piece, for I am none of them.

Thank you for your time. Please try again.


Or better yet, try to catch a baddie. That'd be a lot more helpful, dearie.

[Mnemosyne]

If you want phantom to catch a baddie and you're not it, stop drawing attention to yourself, sally.

[satansaloser2005]

If you want phantom to catch a baddie and you're not it, stop drawing attention to yourself, sally.

Hence why I'm telling all the ordos to leave me alone. Baddies can have at me all they want, but for the good of the village let me have my fun to myself and concentrate on someone else. I've got what I need to know, and intend to do the best I can with my findings. On about your business, children.

[Durelin]

You're the Cobbler and you're paving the way for a false reveal and hoping you can get the White Bishop to reveal or at least make xemself vulnerable by disagreeing with your claim.

No, she's not the White Bishop, because I am!

And you're a wolf.

Yeah.

[satansaloser2005]

No, she's not the White Bishop, because I am!

And you're a wolf.

Yeah.

Hehe silly. :p


(You are kidding....right?)

[the phantom]

Har har, Dur.

[Isabellkya]

After catching up on the posts I crossed with.
Sally just keeps getting weirder and weirder. Are you having an identity crisis with phantom perhaps?

If Sally is indeed the Cobbler, then we should let her be. Though not completely toss her away and ignore her. As she would still be working against the village, and still in possession of her vote. Though her claims of roleship seem to be changing almost day to day. If not by matter of posts.


X'd since Mnemosyne's #459

[Durelin]

(You are kidding....right?)

Yes. Actually I'm channeling Shasta's psychic powers.

[Durelin]

It's actually a secret role, being a Shasta. I get to know one thing and one thing only: that phantom is a wolf.

[satansaloser2005]

Yes. Actually I'm channeling Shasta's psychic powers.

*lets out a deep breath*



hehe totally. :D

EDIT: X'd with Durie 2.0. *giggles*

[Mnemosyne]

It's actually a secret role, being a Shasta. I get to know one thing and one thing only: that phantom is a wolf.

Ah, that explains a lot.

[satansaloser2005]

It's actually a secret role, being a Shasta. I get to know one thing and one thing only: that phantom is a wolf.

Durie, I can't tell you why right now, but I love you soooo much. :Merisu:


I'm running SO late for church right now. Blah.

[Mnemosyne]

All right, Sally, you're making absolutely no sense, you're "trying to get people to figure out something" but won't say WHAT that is, want phantom to figure you out but get everyone else to ignore you, and as soon as you're dead here I won't want to throttle you in your sleep.

You leave me no choice. I'm just sad it had to be today.

++MITH

[Durelin]

Aww, but there are no secrets between Lovers! :(

[satansaloser2005]

Aww, but there are no secrets between Lovers! :(

But you see I'm not your lover. They allow ducks to marry in Nebraska.:Merisu:



*vomits*

[Mnemosyne]

...But only if they marry other ducks.

[satansaloser2005]

Exactly. What did you think I meant?:Merisu:



Blast, stop distracting me! I'm trying to get stuff printed for church and do an analysis at the same time and it's not working out! :eek:

[the phantom]

I'm running SO late for church right now. Blah.
I too must leave for church.

Be back in a couple hours.

And fyi, no fake White Bishop reveal is going to work on me, so don't even try one while I'm gone. I'm about 99% certain I know who Bishy is already, so there's no point in trying to convince me. ;)

[satansaloser2005]

I too must leave for church.

Be back in a couple hours.

And fyi, no fake White Bishop reveal is going to work on me, so don't even try one while I'm gone. I'm about 99% certain I know who Bishy is already, so there's no point in trying to convince me. ;)



Hun I already said I wasn't going to do that. I don't lie about my role, remember? Refuse to respond to accusations when I'm evil, yes, but if I'm innocent I plan to point it out when necessary and the rest of the time....well I have my fun but it's for the good of the village.


Blast! So late! *grumbles, grabs printouts and runs*

[Mnemosyne]

Okay, so that was fun... NOT. I don't know what is going on with Sally, and though I am tempted to kill her off just for making no sense, I'd rather go after someone else who's been evil from the start. Whatever is going on, I don't think Sally was always like this, if that makes sense. She's just been inconsistent today.

Plus Sally is now an easy vote, which doesn't give us much fodder for the future.

[Rikae]

I'm really, really sorry for being so neglectful toDay. I'm downright ashamed of my poor participation, but I'm buried in work. I ought to be better toMorrow, if I'm still around.

I suppose the least I can do is make a list:

Durelin - I haven't been able to form much of an opinion on her, but leaning innocent.
Feanor of the Peredhil - Needs more evaluation than I have time for now; she hasn't set off any alarms, though.
Isabellkya - I think she is.... still evil. :p
the phantom - I think he is.... good.
Brinniel - Possible evilie, mainly by process of elimination, coupled with the fact that she really seems to be in the shadows lately.
satansaloser2005 - Hoo boy. Scenarios have occurred to me where it may be unwise to lynch her, but the opposite seems just as likely. Sally, if you don't mind, why do you refuse to vote for either me or Izzy? I can think of two things you may be thinking...
Lariren Shadow - Another one who may be evil. I wanted to look at her toDay, and didn't get the chance.
wilwarin538 - ...innocentish.
Rikae - A werewolf legend, and deservedly so, Rikae is famous for her... um... something... charming turquoise ringlets...?
Eonwe - I could vote for him.
Mnemosyne - She looks ordoish to me.
Kath - What she has posted seemed quite sensible, which tells me nothing.
Hansy - He is still making me nervous, and I could vote for him.

And my special vote....

++Boro

[Kath]

phantom, sally - quit it, or we'll end up with another fight on our hands like yesterDay.

I don't like either of the voting options so far toDay. phantom I still think has no role, like I said he's far too laid back. sally is as jumpy as ... something very jumpy (leave me alone it's 2 in the morning!) and all her hinting is nonsense. Either she's figured out who has a role and is trying in some perverse way to protect them or she's the Cobbler, either way we're better off leaving her alone. Mnemo you said the Cobbler is dangerous at the end - sure, but we won't get to the end with three wolves and a bear alive!

Anyway, those two are out of the voting picture for me. The three who are in it are Mnemo because of what I said earlier, Hansy because I still think there's a bit of a put-upon newbie act there and Izzy for the same reasons as yesterDay, although her posts today have looked a little better.

I'd actually be happy voting either Mnemo or Hansy, but I'd rather vote the one I have more chance of gaining followers for because I don't want to see phantom or sally lynched toDay. Looking at what sally and Rikae have said it seems I'm more likely to get support for:

++HANSY

[the phantom]

Hun I already said I wasn't going to do that.
My comment wasn't entirely directed at you. It was a bit, and also partly a nudge in Dur's direction (with her fake Bishop reveal), and it was definitely to let the Bishop know that I know who xe is and that I will act in such a way that I believe will encourage xyr survival, and thus if xe wonders what the heck I'm doing xe can at least approach my moves from the viewpoint that I know what I'm doing.

Yeah, yeah... technically I may be wrong. It's possible I am being taken in by a devilish Cobbler or something who has been plotting from the beginning to look like the Bish just in case a reveal is called for. But I don't think that's it. If so, my hat is off to you.

[the phantom]

phantom, sally - quit it, or we'll end up with another fight on our hands like yesterDay.
You don't like fights? Meh- okay, I'll quit. For now.
Mnemo you said the Cobbler is dangerous at the end - sure, but we won't get to the end with three wolves and a bear alive!
Exactly, and at this point I am specifically thinking about who is BQish, because the threat of double kills really needs to end.

And since you voted Hansy, I will go back and take another look at him and tell you what I think.

[the phantom]

I don't know what to think about Hansy exactly. On my notes from Day 1 I have written "Opinions on people please!" next to him, and he has at least done better since then (not surprising, as Day 1 is tougher to form guilt opinions on). But then he has also cut his posting drastically.

If I'm counting right, he made thirteen posts on Day 1. And then yesterday- 2. Today so far- 2.

What happened? Frankly, I liked him on Day 1. I liked his outside the box thinking and such. So he comes in and contributes, and then he fades away...

Unfortunately, we have no history with him, and so cannot hope to guess accurately what that means.

Meh. I feel like I typed several lines just to say "I dunno".

[Hansy]

I'm here, writing a post.

[Isabellkya]

Day One
#28 Banter
#29 Thinks catching a baddie early on is of high importance
#30 Going to sleep
#143 Thinks it better to not discuss the Gifteds, so the baddies would have to figure it out on their own. We should be wary of any reveals.
#184 Gives a list of her thoughts on all of the players. Doesn't like Durelin's vote for Sally. Wouldn't mind seeing Fea lynched. Wants to keep an eye on Rikae, as well as Mnemosyne.
#187 Will probably vote for Fea, Eonwe or Gwath.
#202 A bit more wary about lynching Fea because of the last game, and the whole 'save Fea' going ons.
#208 Commentary and banter about previous game in relation to this game.
#213 Making a correction in a previous Vote tally.
#217 Votes for Gwath

Day Two
#243 Dislikes the two kills per night games. Thinks both Nerwen and Eomer were probably safe kills. With Eomer's death, she doesn't think Sally is the Werebear.
#313 Says she did not do a 180 according to Durelin.
Wants to reexamine everyone. Nog bothers her the most, then goes to list four reasons why.
#319 Makes a list and provides thoughts on everyone. Nog is her primary suspect.
#324 Vote tally
#331 Votes Nog
#333 Commentary on voting thus far

Day Three
#383 Discusses game mechanics. Points out to Sally that phantom has voted the same as her.
#387 Discusses specifics of ties.


All in all. Brin seems pretty consistent. The only things I think are questionable - are her matching votes with phantom, As well as the seeming leap from being comfortable with Nog; to him being her top suspect. I can only guess that the leap was due to her not being able to post, but was able to keep up on the goings on.
She seems quite sensible and innocent to me.

X'd with everything since Mnemosyne's #477

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I said several hours back,

We should lynch one of the following:

Izzy, Brinniel, Sally, Rikae, Mnemo

Since then, I've decided that Mnemo ought to stay (there was something that she said to the phantom that made me want to keep her around to watch for another day, to see what I learn from it) and I also don't want to kill Rikae, because she's done nothing to set off my radar that I can think of, and believe me, I'm thinking of a good many things.

I don't want to jump on the Sally-wagon, because I want to find out what she's up to. While I agree with the phantom's irritated summary of what Sally's doing, I think of it more along the lines of "But that's what she wants you to think."

I'm voting

++Izzy

because when did we stop thinking there was something funny about her? Oh yeah, when there was a weird bandwagon against White Royalty to save her. :rolleyes:

[the phantom]

The only things I think are questionable - are her matching votes with phantom...
Well, dearie, I believe that you have voted exactly the same, so really... :rolleyes:

[Isabellkya]

When did you think there was something funny about me in the first place Fea?

True indeed, phantom.



Edit. Fixed a typing error.

[Brinniel]

As I said before I find Brinn's vote suspicious as well, and I find it interesting the way she reacts to the voting.
Why do you find my voting suspicious? As far as I'm concerned I've been pretty consistent. After sharing my opinions, neither votes should've come as a surprise. And what do you mean that my reactions to the voting is interesting? I can't even recall that I've given much of a reaction...or is that why you find it interesting?

My comment wasn't entirely directed at you. It was a bit, and also partly a nudge in Dur's direction (with her fake Bishop reveal), and it was definitely to let the Bishop know that I know who xe is and that I will act in such a way that I believe will encourage xyr survival, and thus if xe wonders what the heck I'm doing xe can at least approach my moves from the viewpoint that I know what I'm doing.
I really want to say I don't believe you and this is just another ploy meant to confuse us, which it could be. But then I remember back to when you figured Boro out so quickly, so maybe you do have it figured out once again. Or you could just be another baddie who is full of it. I haven't decided which one just yet. In conclusion, phantom remains an enigma to me.

Some more thoughts:

Hansy seems to be pretty much what he is: a newbie. A newbie with some outside experience, but nevertheless a newbie. Of course, a newbie could be anything. Though in this case I think he's more likely just an ordinary one.

Coming into the Day, I felt rather uneasy about Rikae. I'm not sure what it is, but re-reading her posts her tone just seemed off. But then I read her posts toDay and she seems much more genuine. So I'm rather split on what she could be.

And Sally...oh Sally...
She's acting funny, there's no denying that...and I can't really find much reason why she'd want to bring so much attention to herself. However, I still have the feeling that she is innocent, as insane as she is. After all, why on earth would one of the werewolves or BQ draw attention to themselves like that? And while she does seem a bit cobblerish, I also doubt that as well. Simply because the baddies have been doing quite well as it is, so there's really no reason for a Black Pawn to suddenly go suicidal. But still, what's with the odd behaviour...maybe she ate something funny. :p Others have mentioned she's an easy lynch, and I agree. Which is why I don't intend to vote for her toDay. Though, I still can't figure out why Sally finds me so evil. If she keeps hunting me like this, it's gonna get her nowhere. :rolleyes:

I don't think I'm gonna be able to do any in depth analyses toDay. I've gotten way too little sleep lately and am already feeling a bit woozy. I have other stuff to do besides ww (amazing, right?), and I can no longer put it off past 1am so that I can be heavily involved for the rest of the Day. I'll do my best to share my opinions, but unfortunately I lack the energy to be my usual thoughtful self.

[the phantom]

The votes-

Dury +++tp
Willa +++Sally
Steve ++Sally (2)
Kath +++Hansy
Fea ++++Izzy

I can't say who I'll vote for yet. I need to see who Izzy and Brin vote for first so we can all vote the same way again. :cool:

I could vote for Sally because she annoyed me earlier, but then if she's the Cobbler I would hate to give her the satisfaction of being lynched.

I could vote for Izzy just to see if it sheds any light on yesterday's events. Problem is, it probably won't and then we'll be nowhere.

I could vote for Hansy because I'm uncomfortable with those that I can't get a read on, but since I have no read can I justify such a vote?

I'll just wait for Izzy and Brin and we'll dogpile onto someone random at the last minute. That sounds like a good plan. Or a stupid plan. But sometimes the best plans are stupid. (e.g. Let's take the Ring and walk into Mordor with it!)

EDIT: xpost Brin

[the phantom]

I really want to say I don't believe you and this is just another ploy meant to confuse us, which it could be.
When I do a ploy, confusing everyone is never the primary intention. It is an unfortunate side effect that always gets me into trouble. :D
But then I remember back to when you figured Boro out so quickly, so maybe you do have it figured out once again.
I'm glad you think that it's at least possible.
Or you could just be another baddie who is full of it.
If I was a baddie, Bishy would be dead m'dear. ;)

Sorry. That last comment was a little big-headed. Even for me.

It's true though.

[satansaloser2005]

Ah, good. My top suspect has a vote, so I may as well get the formalities out of the way.


++Hansy




Back in a bit, but want to catch up on some other internet stuff.

(And if anyone cares, youth group was AMAZING tonight. That is all.)

[Isabellkya]

Day One
#17 Banter
#24 Banter
#102 Votes Sally, reason is random; a gut-reaction. Says there are a few who she would like to get rid of already.

Day Two
#270 Laments the death of Gwath Thinks Brin did a 180 from Fea to Gwath. Wouldn't mind seeing Fea gone.
#273 Says people should vote for who they think are guilty. Admits her vote for Sally was not the case.

Day Three
#395 Posts her list of thoughts on everyone from yesterDay that she wasn't able to post. Votes phantom. Feels more certain about him at the moment, though wouldn't mind seeing Sally go either.
#396 Says Sally is acting weird. Has no idea on Brin. Will mostly focus on phantom.
#398 Forgot about the Cobbler.
#399 Says Sally the BR was attacked by the BQ, but protected by phantom the BK. Or Sally is the Cobbler.
#405 Banter
#409 Wonders if someone's vote could've counted as two. Replies to Rikae's question about Sally being the Cobbler - because she is confusing.
#410 Could switch vote to Izzy.
#423 Clarifies the manipulation of phantom. Makes a list on everyone. Probable/maybe baddies - Sally, Brin, Izzy/ Hansy, Lariren, Mnemosyne.
#428 Admits mixing up of phantom's posts.
#461 Says she is the WB and phantom a wolf.
#465 Banter.
#466 Banter.
#471 Banter.


I know there was further discussion on Durelin thinking Brin did a 180 on Day One, though I can't find it. It must've been commented on by others. Would've been nice to see a clarification on it, as I don't get how she saw it. I'll have to look again. Or I completely missed it somehow.
She has gone from no idea to undecided, though there is a pinch of unease about her.

X;d with everyone after my last post at #487.

[satansaloser2005]

Dude, maybe I'm blind but I still don't see what is so inherently evil about Izzy. I'm not saying she's blindingly innocent, but I don't see why she got so much attention yesterDay. I'll keep an eye on her, but for now I think we should leave her alone. I mean the only reason I voted her yesterDay was to save Noggie (I know, that sounds stupid, but I don't care because it's the truth) and besides her self-save vote (which did ring bells, I'll admit) I didn't see too much that was suspicious about her. And no one should accuse me of flipflopping on this because I said the exact same thing when I voted her. So yeah. That is all.

[Rikae]

Ok, I'm decided.

++Izzy

For reasons stated before, plus the no-analysis analyses - a habit I would like to strongly discourage before impressionable newbies pick it up.

EDIT: X'd with Sally.

[Isabellkya]

Brin will have to make her vote first, I'm still quite unsure.

I'm going to look at Lariren more, maybe Fea and Mnemosyne as well if there is time.

At the moment, I could vote for either Lariren or Sally.
Though if Sally is the Cobbler, probably not. Then again - better a Cobbler than an innocent; if we can't get a wolf or bear.


X'd with Sally and Rikae.

[Hansy]

Most of this stuff is taken out of Day 2, maybe I've mixed some ideas in, but at this moment that's what I've analyzed. If it doesn't take too long, I'm re-reading Day 3 today, but I don't think it's happening.

Durelin - Right now, who I'm more confident of their innocence. Seems the most sincere to me.
Feanor of the Peredhil - For someone as strong-minded as her, getting a vote from narrowing down the player list is kind of strange... she didn't stand out anymore, that adds to my suspicions.
Isabellkya - I'd still go innocent for her; she's usually more agressive when she plays evil. So I like the general smooth appearance of her.
the phantom & Brinniel - Seeing them both involved on Gwath's and Nogrod's lynches, they barely interacted with each other, I'd think this is a good shot on a evil duo... You could throw in Fea here, maybe Day 1's occurance was meant to make her look worse, I don't know.
satansaloser2005 - She's playing it different than last game; I can't relate her with anyone, but I can't stop thinking she's evil. Add Eomer's death, you have your Black Queen. Do us all a favor and kill that black bishop/rook tonight. :) If you don't, they'll outnumber everyone soon anyway, giving you no room.
Lariren Shadow - Went back from "probably innocent" to "I have no idea". Her posts weren't conclusive enough for me, they were giving mixed impressions.
wilwarin538 - When she posted her list on day 2 I agreed with most of her points, from what I've seen I'm not worried so far, if she's a wolf it's playing the backup member or something.
Rikae - Her reasoning is, well, reasonable all the time. I don't know how she plays evil, but this Rikae looks more or less like the innocent Rikae from last game.
Eonwe - Just didn't see enough, though I remember him raising my eyebrow on Day 1.
Mnemosyne - Now I'm starting to worry about her.. when Izzy asked her about the "Who're we killing today?" bit she said right after Night 2, it could be taken as a cobbler hinting to the wolves.
Kath - Nothing stands out from what I've seen, really. Overall innocent feeling.

So, summary:

More Evil: TP, Sally
Less Evil: Nemo, Brinn
I don't know: Eonwe, Fea, Lari
Less Innocent: Kath, Izzy
More Innocent: Durelin, Rikae, Wilva

++The Phantom

[Isabellkya]

"no-analysis analyses"?

X'd with Hansy.... does that make it a four-way tie? o.O

[Mnemosyne]

Holy Valar, peeps, look at the votes.

[satansaloser2005]

Hansy, Izzy, Phantom, and myself all at four votes.


Unacceptable, people. Simply unacceptable.

[Mnemosyne]

I'm almost tempted to say "no one else vote" or "let's make it a five-way tie" but that's just silly.

I got snapped out of game mode for a few hours; hoping to get back in it and get some good analysis in before I vote. Looks as if it may matter this time!

(Also... something odd just occurred to me. Numerous people have been suspecting Brin, but she hasn't garnered any votes, has she?)