Tol-in-Gaurhoth LVII - Chess Game for Middle Earth: Game Thread

[Isabellkya]

Do you mean two, I don't think there are that many people playing. xD


X'd with Mnemosyne.

[the phantom]

Dury +++tp
Willa +++Sally
Steve ++Sally (2)
Kath +++Hansy
Fea ++++Izzy
Sally ++Hansy (2)
Rikae ++Izzy (2)
Hansy ++tp (2)

The two Izzy votes I expected. I also expected that second Hansy vote. But I had no idea Hansy would vote for me.

That's gutsy, laddie. Voting to tie me with you, when I still have a vote in my hand.

We're all tied now. I say we just leave it. Shasta would love that! :D

EDIT: xpost Mnem, Izzy

[Hansy]

Oh my, what did I do. :eek:

[the phantom]

Well, well, since Brin, Izzy, and I haven't voted, that means the three of us can agree on someone and lynch them, even if they don't have any votes yet.

We are the judges of doom. We say who lives and who dies. Mwu ha ha! Fear us.

[Mnemosyne]

Yet to vote:

Isabellkya
the phantom
Brinniel
Lariren Shadow
Mnemosyne

Unless someone wants to push another candidate, it looks as if I'll have to limit my votes to the people who have already got them. :(

[Durelin]

We are the judges of doom. We say who lives and who dies. Mwu ha ha! Fear us.

Everyone still has a retraction. :rolleyes:

[Mnemosyne]

Well, well, since Brin, Izzy, and I haven't voted, that means the three of us can agree on someone and lynch them, even if they don't have any votes yet.

We are the judges of doom. We say who lives and who dies. Mwu ha ha! Fear us.

Yeah, till Lari and I come in and both vote for you out of sheer vindictiveness.

(Er, if Lari's okay with that... if not, I can at least make it a tie...)

[the phantom]

Unless someone wants to push another candidate
Durelin! I must have my vengeance!

[Brinniel]

I can't say who I'll vote for yet. I need to see who Izzy and Brin vote for first so we can all vote the same way again.
Hushabye. We wouldn't want them to catch onto us, now would we? ;)

Anyway, you'll just have to wait awhile longer since I'm undecided as of now. Unfortunately, I don't have any clear suspects in mind.

[Durelin]

Yeah, till Lari and I come in and both vote for you out of sheer vindictiveness

Sounds like a plan!

[Mnemosyne]

Make your case, phantom. :p

For some reason I really want to vote Brin, but first I'd have to analyze her.

I'm just not incredibly thrilled with any of the vote candidates... Now that you've gotten off your spec-fest (and I can understand innocent!phantom's reasoning) I'm willing to let you live another day.

Sally I've already explained why I don't want to vote for.

Hansy... eh. I don't feel great about him, especially because a lot of people have done the whole "I suspect him but he's a n00b" sort of thing and by Day 3 that shouldn't matter (heck, didn't matter for me).

And Izzy I'm willing to reprieve until we find out more information about yesterDay (if there's ever a reveal that will let us. But I won't wait forever).

[Rikae]

I would prefer to see Sally or Hansy lynched than tp, if it comes down to that.

[Mnemosyne]

By the way, I'd laugh SO hard if it turns out Brin, phantom, and Izzy are the Bishop, Rook, and Knight.

[Hansy]

Duh, of course they are. At least one of them HAS to be evil. It's just too much. :p

[satansaloser2005]

Well, in the interest of self-preservation I'd really not like to die, at least toDay. *goes all cryptic again* It would be in the village's best interest not to kill me toDay. If you find me suspicious, fine, kill me toMorrow, but deal with someone else toDay.


Of course I don't want to see Phantom go either. Izzy I would understand, since several people suspect her, but I wouldn't be the happiest I suppose. Hansy needs to go in my opinion. I'm currently working with one of his posts, so I'll be back with thoughts in a second. Until then!

[Brinniel]

Unless someone wants to push another candidate, it looks as if I'll have to limit my votes to the people who have already got them.
Unless you want to be the one to push for another candidate. Do you not think you have the power to sway the voting to someone entirely different? Well understandable, as I've never been quite the persuasive person either, but you never know. Like I said, I'm undecided so I could go in any direction. So if you have a better candidate in mind, please share (so long it is not me, of course ;) ).

Btw, has anyone been following the post count. phantom and Mnemo have been practically tied the entire game. I find it oddly amusing. :D

[Mnemosyne]

Brin, the thing is that I don't have a huge case against anyone (some bad vibes about you, dear, but that's it; and the last time I had them the analysis dispelled them). And the past two Days I've voted for people based on my own reasoning, which I've given, and it hasn't swayed anyone.

Earlier toDay I kept on stressing the singular peculiarity of all those Izzy voters yesterday, but no one else agreed with me. I may be verbose but I'm not a leader.

[the phantom]

Currently reskimming today's posts....

[Mnemosyne]

Duh, of course they are. At least one of them HAS to be evil. It's just too much. :p

See, the thing is I could totally see phantom Night One being like, "Let's always vote the same way every Day! No one will suspect us!" And he'd be able to pull it off, too.

[Durelin]

So let's get those 3 tied up and let fate decide. :Merisu:

Edit: Hmmm...I mean tied up as in votes...

[satansaloser2005]

Hansy's analysis of a few people, put in italics, followed by my reaction in regular type. Does not necessarily reflect my opinion of the players he's analyzing, but rather my comment on his logic. Thanks for listening, and enjoy my post.


Durelin - Right now, who I'm more confident of their innocence. Seems the most sincere to me.

Just to point it out for you, Durie's a girl. Just so you know. :) She does indeed seem sincere, but just because she seems sincere and kind doesn't mean she's innocent, so keep that in mind.

Feanor of the Peredhil - For someone as strong-minded as her, getting a vote from narrowing down the player list is kind of strange... she didn't stand out anymore, that adds to my suspicions.

So Fea's not Fea enough for you? Erm....okay? So she's not allowed to be logical now, I see. Thanks for clearing that up. Don't worry, Fea, we all still love you, even if you go sane on us.

Isabellkya - I'd still go innocent for her; she's usually more agressive when she plays evil. So I like the general smooth appearance of her.

But players change styles, so saying that she is acting normally is saying nothing, especially for a good player like Izzy.

the phantom & Brinniel - Seeing them both involved on Gwath's and Nogrod's lynches, they barely interacted with each other, I'd think this is a good shot on a evil duo... You could throw in Fea here, maybe Day 1's occurance was meant to make her look worse, I don't know.

I won't really disagree with this, but both of them voting for the same people doesn't mean they're on the evil team together. Maybe a bishop/rook and a cobbler, Queen and cobbler, or Queen and bishop/rook, but Brinn and Phantom are, at least in my opinion, too smooth to be that obvious, especially when they could have let Fea die (I know Brinn's cool with throwing her packmates under the bus and I'm sure Phantom would be too, which of course isn't to speak ill of them) and gone on about their business.

satansaloser2005 - She's playing it different than last game; I can't relate her with anyone, but I can't stop thinking she's evil. Add Eomer's death, you have your Black Queen. Do us all a favor and kill that black bishop/rook tonight. If you don't, they'll outnumber everyone soon anyway, giving you no room.

Now I don't mind being suspected, but this is rather silly. Hun, of course I am playing differently from last game. Last game I was evil, this game I'm not. And how does Eomer's death implicate me? I mean yes, he voted me, but believe me, I'm rarely that transparent with my kills. Besides, I would rather have taken out other players of whom I was afraid, or whom I thought would be a good no-trace kill. Eomer's not my kill style (not that you'll believe me, of course, and I wouldn't expect you to) so his death tells you nothing. However, I'd love to help you get rid of the black bishop or black rook. Even the Queen, if I can manage it. Just give me a bit more time and I can guarantee I'll be able to help the village.

Lariren Shadow - Went back from "probably innocent" to "I have no idea". Her posts weren't conclusive enough for me, they were giving mixed impressions.

Okay....not much to say if he doesn't have anything really to say.

wilwarin538 - When she posted her list on day 2 I agreed with most of her points, from what I've seen I'm not worried so far, if she's a wolf it's playing the backup member or something.

Or she's playing it carefully. Remember that a good wolf knows who to suspect in order to look good, if that makes any sense at all, and just because you agree with someone doesn't mean they're innocent.

Rikae - Her reasoning is, well, reasonable all the time. I don't know how she plays evil, but this Rikae looks more or less like the innocent Rikae from last game.

Dude, a reasonable Rikae is an evil Rikae. They're all evil Rikaes. :p Seriously though, Rikae's always fairly reasonable, at least in her arguments, even if she acts like a complete whackjob.

Eonwe - Just didn't see enough, though I remember him raising my eyebrow on Day 1.

Understandable. He's not been around a whole lot.

Mnemosyne - Now I'm starting to worry about her.. when Izzy asked her about the "Who're we killing today?" bit she said right after Night 2, it could be taken as a cobbler hinting to the wolves.

Doubtful. Mnemo's just playful like that. She could be evil in some form, but I doubt that would be one of the indicators of her role.

Kath - Nothing stands out from what I've seen, really. Overall innocent feeling.

Again, nothing really said, so nothing to say.


++The Phantom

Bwah?!!?!?!?!??


EDIT: x'd since my last

[Isabellkya]

Mnemosyne -
Had I not been selfish and wanting to live another Day; we would not of had similar votes for all of the Days. xD

X'd with Sally

[satansaloser2005]

I wouldn't be happy about it, but if it would relieve the tie situation I suppose I could switch to Brinn. However, Hansy is my first priority so I'd have to be more convinced about her guilt (and have a guarantee that she would 'win' the lynch) before I would retract and vote her. Basically it's not going to happen, but like I said, I freaking hate ties.

[Mnemosyne]

To Sally:

Yeah, and the thing is, since this is my first game I don't know if my vibes are accurate or not. I reread all of Brinn's posts and really the only thing that I find iffy about her is how her votes have both ended up being quite powerful--which is no evidence at all!

I'd like to hear some defense from Hansy. Will look at his posts in more detail as he's another vibey sort.

[Brinniel]

See, the thing is I could totally see phantom Night One being like, "Let's always vote the same way every Day! No one will suspect us!" And he'd be able to pull it off, too.
If you knew me at all, then you'd know I never take orders from the phantom. The minute he starts to boss me around, I cover my ears and scream, "NO!"

Yeah, that's just how I am. :Merisu:

[Brinniel]

And before I forget:

++Nilp

[satansaloser2005]

If you knew me at all, then you'd know I never take orders from the phantom. The minute he starts to boss me around, I cover my ears and scream, "NO!"

Yeah, that's just how I am. :Merisu:

Heh. She has a point. ;)

[Mnemosyne]

Well, IF you went along with it he'd be able to pull it off. :Merisu:

[Hansy]

I'd like to hear some defense from Hansy. Will look at his posts in more detail as he's another vibey sort.

Defense from what? :confused: Sally's entitled to her opinion on my logic, I don't think I have much to say about it. Most of her reactions are based on her previous knowledge of the players in this game - except for Izzy, where she does the exact opposite, underestimating the patterns and looking for clean behaviours.
About TP and Brinn, the fact is that they both voted last-second, on both days, and for the same person. And it's just like you said, it's something that TP could easily double bluff, "oh he wouldn't be that obvious, would he?"

[Hansy]

x'd since Brinn's #525. And I'm yet to know what we're supposed to do with this :confused:

[the phantom]

The four people who are tied-

tp- certainly won't get my vote
Sally- extremely odd, I'm intrigued now by her hinting after reread, desperately want to preserve her and kill her to find out role at same time
Izzy- seems clean to me, but people I trust voted for her, death telling if she's guilty, worthless if she's not
Hansy- started strong then submarined, voted for me so I know he's wrong, unlikely to be Gifted, no read on him though

[Mnemosyne]

except for Izzy, where she does the exact opposite, underestimating the patterns and looking for clean behaviours.

Care to clarify?

Also, if that spelling denotes your nationality, aren't you up a little late?

[Isabellkya]

In other news, your Almighty Mod-Lord of Doom and Pointless but Fun Exposition is quite pleased with this game so far. You game pieces are doing quite well. To reward you, I'm going to let you vote among yourselves to decide who shall get a cameo-parody in the next lynch plot! No, you can't vote yourself. Color your plot-cameo votes in highlight, please.

Just means that, we vote for someone we want to see in toDay's lynch plot.


X'd with phantom and Mnemosyne.

[Mnemosyne]

If I felt like being manipulative...

It would be interesting to put Izzy at the top and then have a second person right below her just to see what happens.

But I don't feel like being manipulative.

[satansaloser2005]

The four people who are tied-

tp- certainly won't get my vote
Sally- extremely odd, I'm intrigued now by her hinting after reread, desperately want to preserve her and kill her to find out role at same time
Izzy- seems clean to me, but people I trust voted for her, death telling if she's guilty, worthless if she's not
Hansy- started strong then submarined, voted for me so I know he's wrong, unlikely to be Gifted, no read on him though

Aw, I was hoping you'd Nilp yourself. ;)

If I was a completely horrible person I'd vote for you just so you'll get lynched for once, but that would be counterintuitive because I don't think you're guilty. Bah.

[Isabellkya]

I think I should get a treat, if you are going to vote for me for experimental purposes.


X'd with Sally

[satansaloser2005]

I think I should get a treat, if you are going to vote for me for experimental purposes.



PM me your address and I'll send you some cookies.

(I'd totally do it too, by the way. I'm just saying.)

[the phantom]

Okay. I won't vote for Sally. I've decided that much.

[satansaloser2005]

Okay. I won't vote for Sally. I've decided that much.

Not that I'm complaining, but any particular reason?

[Mnemosyne]

Also, can we try to put someone firmly in the lead before the game's almost over? I'm afraid of a lot of snipe-votes.

[satansaloser2005]

Also, can we try to put someone firmly in the lead before the game's almost over? I'm afraid of a lot of snipe-votes.

Yeah, but I don't think the baddies would risk being so obvious as to do a snipe on someone. Still it's a good idea, so we don't have people debating up until the last second and then realizing they're out of time.

[the phantom]

Not that I'm complaining, but any particular reason?
I'm simply curious to see what you'll do if we let you off the hook. I reread some of your hinting and such today, and I had two new thoughts occur to me, which I will not be posting for all to see.

But the thoughts were enough to sway me, and make me think I should give you a chance to survive this day.

[satansaloser2005]

I'm simply curious to see what you'll do if we let you off the hook. I reread some of your hinting and such today, and I had two new thoughts occur to me, which I will not be posting for all to see.

But the thoughts were enough to sway me, and make me think I should give you a chance to survive this day.

K. I think that means you caught on. *hugs the clever phantom* Woot!



Where is everyone else?

[Rikae]

Yeah, but I don't think the baddies would risk being so obvious as to do a snipe on someone. Still it's a good idea, so we don't have people debating up until the last second and then realizing they're out of time.

So doing a snipe on someone is baddie behavior? :p

[satansaloser2005]

So doing a snipe on someone is baddie behavior? :p

Hehe. No worse than intentionally x'ing with the mod. :p:Merisu:

[Mnemosyne]

Okay. I won't vote for Sally. I've decided that much.

That makes two of us... if only I could make up my mind about the rest.

[Mnemosyne]

How about sniping just because someone cast a self-preservation tie-making vote?

[Durelin]

I thought about changing my vote, but...meh. I don't feel like thinking anymore.

I am pretty certain I will regret leaving things completely in the hands of those who still seem to be around, but so bet it.

As if I ever sway the vote, much less in the right direction.....

Night. Pick a good one.

[Isabellkya]

I both read and skimmed Lariren.
She seems quite sensible, yet quirky. At some points she would make a theory about something; then when someone directed attention to it - she would downplay it, calling it "silly" or "horrible". She downplayed some of her theories at the start saying "naive". I don't know if it can be attributed to being a new(er?) player. I'm not sure on that part, since I've never played with her before. I recall someone saying it, though not sure who. That she "tip-toed" around; which seems to be the best word to describe her so far.

++SPM


X'd since #538

[satansaloser2005]

How about sniping just because someone cast a self-preservation tie-making vote?

Completely different story. Heh.


I play mafia on facebook. Sniping is just kind of evil in my book from there and bleeds over to here, but it's not really all that bad if done for the right reasons.


Like, for instance, trying to save the Ranger. ;)

[Mnemosyne]

Night. Pick a good one.

Um... don't you mean "pick an evil one"?

[satansaloser2005]

Um... don't you mean "pick an evil one"?

No she means pick a good one. ;)

[Mnemosyne]

Izzy -- I'm a bit concerned about the lack of attention Lari is getting myself, but when I read over her stuff (surprise) I don't see anything that raises major suspicion.

[Brinniel]

Sally: I still think she's most likely just a silly innocent. Won't get my vote.

Hansy: I'm still not sure about him, but his behaviour has me leaning slightly towards innocent. Plus I have a bad feeling about lynching him, mainly because I fear he's just another easy lynch.

the phantom: I'm teeter-tottering on tp. I want to trust him, I really do. But he's such a tricksy fellow and very hard to read...which is why I can't let myself trust him.

Izzy: I'm still feeling rather indifferent towards her. I honestly don't have a strong reason to suspect her, but nor do I have a reason to think she's innocent. I'm tempted to vote her because if I don't and she does turn out to be evil, I'll be forever smacking myself on the head for letting her get away.

Hmm...I should take another look at toDay while I have the time.

[Lariren Shadow]

So this is what I get for going to a club meeting, class, and then the Top Chef finale(yes I totally love that show). Now I have to catch up and there will be no long analysis here.

Yeah, till Lari and I come in and both vote for you out of sheer vindictiveness.

(Er, if Lari's okay with that... if not, I can at least make it a tie...)

Hm...but I don't want to vote tp at all. I find him quiet innocent and would not want to vote him.

And Sally...oh Sally...
She's acting funny, there's no denying that...and I can't really find much reason why she'd want to bring so much attention to herself. However, I still have the feeling that she is innocent, as insane as she is. After all, why on earth would one of the werewolves or BQ draw attention to themselves like that? And while she does seem a bit cobblerish, I also doubt that as well. Simply because the baddies have been doing quite well as it is, so there's really no reason for a Black Pawn to suddenly go suicidal. But still, what's with the odd behaviour...maybe she ate something funny. :p Others have mentioned she's an easy lynch, and I agree. Which is why I don't intend to vote for her toDay. Though, I still can't figure out why Sally finds me so evil. If she keeps hunting me like this, it's gonna get her nowhere.

My thoughts on her excatly. I think Sally is more innocent than not. She is bringing a lot of attention to herself, but I think she might have fallen into the same trap I did last game: I knew I was innocent and then kept getting marked as guilty and then had to make sure that I didn't die. Plus she hasn't done any song parodies yet. So clearly she is innocent.

I both read and skimmed Lariren.
She seems quite sensible, yet quirky. At some points she would make a theory about something; then when someone directed attention to it - she would downplay it, calling it "silly" or "horrible". She downplayed some of her theories at the start saying "naive". I don't know if it can be attributed to being a new(er?) player. I'm not sure on that part, since I've never played with her before. I recall someone saying it, though not sure who. That she "tip-toed" around; which seems to be the best word to describe her so far.

This is my third game for the record. So I'm newer, but not as new as some in the game.

I'm not going to vote Sally or tp. Sally doesn't get my vote because she looks more innocent than not, she keeps trying to say more than she should about her innocents. Tp because, well, I just don't think he's evil. From what I see in his posts he seems more innocent than not.

I have no idea about Izzy. She didn't die at Night, which leads me to think she's more guilty. But then the wolves might not have seen her as the best kill. Maybe too many wolves were involved with her almost lynch for them to be comfortable with.

I still don't feel right about Hansy. His posts have been interesting but they are rubbing me the wrong way. His post where he gives his reasons also sets off red flags to me.

So, making sure I get this in and I know I have 20 minutes about but still:

++Hansy

But toMorrow, I'm going to take a closer look at Izzy.

Edit: x-posted with Brinn and Mnemi.

[Mnemosyne]

Tie has been broken!

Thoughts?

[Isabellkya]

I'm definitely not voting for myself.
I won't be voting for phantom.
I'm rather not keen on voting for Hansy.
Nor am I particularly keen on voting for Sally, though less so than Hansy.

If it comes down to voting between the four of us; I suppose it would be a toss-up of Sally and Hansy.


Mnemosyne - Neither do/did I. Though there is something that is a bit uneasy how she was seeming to downplay some of her theories. At the time of posting and after.

Oi. I don't know.


X'd with Lariren and Mnemosyne.

[satansaloser2005]

Hansy 3
Phantom, Izzy, and Sally 2 each

[satansaloser2005]

Izzy, whatever you choose, now is totally not the time for a toss-up.



Good points about Lari. I'll have a look at her, though it definitely won't be toDay.

[Brinniel]

One player I'd like to take a closer look at toMorrow is wilwa, as she has been floating under my radar lately. While she does have this innocentish aura about her, I don't know what kind of player she is, and for all I know she could be quite the deceptive one (kind of like Kath, who probably should be looked at too).

[Mnemosyne]

I don't feel good about voting anyone, but I feel better voting her than the current ties. Maybe more of a lookin tomorrow; I don't really want to orchestrate a lynch at the moment.

Gah. I think out of the four Hansy looks the most suspicious, though Izzy, you should consider this just a reprieve. (Since I'm still neutral on you.) I don't think killing you is going to give us any info, but I do think that as the game progresses I'll be able to understand more about you better.

[Isabellkya]

Awh, thanks for that Lariren. I had seen your name on a playerlist three games ago I think. But wasn't sure how long you had been around.

X'd since Sally at #559

[the phantom]

This is making my head hurt.

*sigh*

I keep coming back to the fact that Izzy's death is unlikely to tell us anything.

When she was in trouble, who rescued her? Brin and I. And I already know that I'm not a partner WW with her, so one of her rescuers is certainly innocent.

Not to mention the fact that the rescue was technically unsuccessful, so perhaps you could say not enough of an effort was made for her to be a WW with helpers. And that's even assuming that Brin is the type of WW that would save a partner in that manner.

No, no, I'm not feeling a WereWolf at all. WereBear? But then you can't ever prove that without a Seer dream as there's not really anything in particular you can watch for. The most you can get on the BQ would be bad vibes, and I don't have any of those. So it would seem like a real shot in the dark to me.

Plus, despite the fact that you may feel I shouldn't talk about this, the fact remains that something funny happened with the lynch. Izzy was saved somehow. The mysterious White Queen is the only logical source for such an event, and it seems to fly in the face of reason to insist upon doing something that was somehow in some way opposed by the White Queen the day before.

[Mnemosyne]

I agree with Brinn about the future suspects. And also that Hansy looks like too easy a lynch which baddies could hide behind... *sigh*

And the vibes still haven't stopped! Grah!

[satansaloser2005]

I agree with Brinn about the future suspects. And also that Hansy looks like too easy a lynch which baddies could hide behind... *sigh*

And the vibes still haven't stopped! Grah!


Poor ickle confused duck....*hugs*

[Isabellkya]

Oh, no. I would not literally toss a coin to decide who I was going to vote for, Sally. Nor just pick one on a whim.

I'm just not wanting to really lynch anyone up on the block at the moment.

[satansaloser2005]

Oh, no. I would not literally toss a coin to decide who I was going to vote for, Sally. Nor just pick one on a whim.

I'm just not wanting to really lynch anyone up on the block at the moment.

Okay, just making sure. I know you're not usually the kind to do that and it worried me a bit.

[Mnemosyne]

For those of us still yet to vote, doing nothing is a decision.

I haven't had my hands in anyone's death yet; it's time that I took up some of that responsibility.

Even if he looks like an easy lynch, Hansy really does appear to me to be the most suspicious out of the lot.

And I don't want someone to re-tie this thing and wreak too much headache-inducing last-minute havoc.

++Hansy

phantom, sally, if either of you are alive toMorrow, I'm going after you. Serious hard-core analysis, probably a vote. I'd like to clear the air a bit.

[the phantom]

To summarize...

I want to give Sally a chance to live as I may have gotten on the same page as her with her hints earlier today, and it seems wrong somehow to turn around the next day and lynch Izzy who was likely saved by the White Queen the day before.

Probably voting for Hansy then. It'd be nice to get lucky and hit the BQ, but it's unlikely. Perhaps we'll get lucky and hit a WW though. I don't see any reason why he couldn't be one, and I have fewer logical reasons to support him than I do the other lynch candidates.

[satansaloser2005]

Hansy 4
Phantom, Sally, and Izzy 2

Still to vote:
Izzy
Phantom
Brinn

[Hansy]

Care to clarify?

Also, if that spelling denotes your nationality, aren't you up a little late?

I'm portuguese. So, yeah, a "little" late. Figured I'd stay for a good-bye post. :P

[Mnemosyne]

I'm portuguese. So, yeah, a "little" late. Figured I'd stay for a good-bye post. :P

Groovy!

I hope you'll stay on for more games.

[Brinniel]

++Izzy

I agree with tp that it's odd she wasn't killed last Night. Plus, her lynching may answer some questions.

[satansaloser2005]

Hansy 4
Izzy 3
Phantom/Sally 2

[the phantom]

++Hansy

[Mnemosyne]

Phantom/Sally

I knew you two had something going on!



OTP! OTP! OTP!

[satansaloser2005]

I knew you two had something going on!




Oi! Shaddup!

[Hansy]

I doubt I'll stay, this is just too much work for me. But it was a nice experiment. :)

--The Phantom
++Sally

Just in case someone's wanting to save me... but seriously, think about getting TP tomorrow.

[Isabellkya]

I wont vote for phantom.
I can't bring myself to vote for Hansy, because I don't find anything about him suspicious; and voting for him would feel really wrong.

So, that leaves..
++Sally.
Sorry.I feel less wrong voting you than I do the others.

X'd since Mnemosyne's #572

[satansaloser2005]

I doubt I'll stay, this is just too much work for me. But it was a nice experiment. :)

--The Phantom
++Sally

Just in case someone's wanting to save me... but seriously, think about getting TP tomorrow.

I knew it. Ha, I knew it I knew it I knew it.



For the record

Hansy 5
Izzy and Sally 3
Phantom 2

EDIT: x'd with Izzy. Oh, now this is just ridiculous.

[the phantom]

Time for randomness then...

We know the BQ almost killed a WW last night. If Hansy is guilty then the BQ will not try to kill a WW again for fear of thinning them too much. And if the BQ is worried about being lynched the next day xe may not attempt to kill a WW no matter what, since ultimately xe wishes the innocents to lose.

The WWs will finally start killing Seer candidates, or at least dream of them. We know they've dreamed of me already, and I imagine they want to know about Fea, Rikae, and Kath- the three most deadly women in the world.

And I'm still the Black King.

And the White one.

[Brinniel]

And l've also ruined the phantom/Brinn/Izzy voting streak... :rolleyes:

[Hansy]

Oh, Brinn's voted for Izzy. Well, I'm not putting her life at stake. She was so nice to me and everything. :D Thanks for dragging me here. ;)

[Isabellkya]

Wait what? I think I missed something here in the crossposting..

[satansaloser2005]

Must head out soon. Need to kill and eat a certain matchmaking duck.



Let's just say that if I survive the Day and die during the Night, you won't have to worry about Brinn. Also assuming she survives.



Cryptic, ain't it?!



EDIT: I worded that in a jumble of rubbish and I doubt I'll have time to explain. I'll do it toMorrow, savvy?

[Hansy]

What did you knew Sally?

[Mnemosyne]

We know they've dreamed of me already

No, you think they've dreamed you already.

[satansaloser2005]

Wait what? I think I missed something here in the crossposting..

Erm yeah, kinda sorta. Thanks for that, love.

[satansaloser2005]

What did you knew Sally?



That you would retract and vote me. That's all.


Hushabye now, children. It's past deadline, and a Shasta approaches to hand us our respective fates.

[Hansy]

Tanner is late. *grabs some popcorn*

[the phantom]

You've gotta be kidding, Sally.

[Mnemosyne]

You mean, hand Hansy his fate?

[satansaloser2005]

You've gotta be kidding, Sally.

Kidding how?



Ah, good. Shasta's not shown up. I plan to look at Brinn tonight (real time, not game Night), so hopefully when Day dawns I'll have a nice shiny analysis for you all. And, as you know, Sally's word is law. :Merisu:

[satansaloser2005]

You mean, hand Hansy his fate?

Hopefully. I'm uneasy, given the surprise killing of Nog yesterDay.

[satansaloser2005]

Hmmmm. Perhaps I should actually do my homework. Or perhaps I'll keep on with my OCD and watch the thread, maybe start my analyses for toMorrow.

ETA: Shasta, darling, where are you? I know you're around somewhere. *checks under a rock* Nope, not here. Blast.

[Hansy]

Hopefully. I'm uneasy, given the surprise killing of Nog yesterDay.

Now that would be nice. :cool:

[satansaloser2005]

Now that would be nice. :cool:

For you and your team, yeah.

[Brinniel]

I plan to look at Brinn tonight (real time, not game Night), so hopefully when Day dawns I'll have a nice shiny analysis for you all. And, as you know, Sally's word is law.
Look forward to seeing it, considering you are so far very wrong about me. Perhaps your precious Hunter's screen is dirty. :p

[the phantom]

Kidding how?
You're hinting again, and it's making me think I was only partly right about you. There seems to be more. A new thought about you occured to me, and if it's true, then I will die laughing after the game.

[Hansy]

For you and your team, yeah.

Unless you're the seer (which you can't be, otherwise you wouldn't be still chasing after me), it will do only good for the innocents. ;)

[satansaloser2005]

Look forward to seeing it, considering you are so far very wrong about me. Perhaps your precious Hunter's screen is dirty. :p

Heh. Doubtful. More like my brain's made of mush. But I'm glad you're not opposed to a little attention. :)

[the phantom]

By the way, Hansy, my true reasoning for voting you is that you have a picture of a cat as your avie. :p

[Mnemosyne]

Ah, the truth comes out!

[Hansy]

I know, I should've gotten this one.

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/5186/quilavasketchpl5.png

My fluffy little thing. :3

[the phantom]

Okay, despite the fact that he's not here, we really ought to wind this down.

Goodnight. I'm off to bed. I plan to sleep for a solid 13 hours.

[Brinniel]

By the way, Hansy, my true reasoning for voting you is that you have a picture of a cat as your avie.
Aww, but it's so cute. :Merisu:

Btw Hansy, I hope you'll reconsider and stick around for another game in the future. I've enjoyed your presence and you make a nice addition to the Barrow Downs WW gang. :)

[satansaloser2005]

But....but I like teh kittie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgyAd535ZtI)....

[Hansy]

Aww, but it's so cute. :Merisu:

Btw Hansy, I hope you'll reconsider and stick around for another game in the future. I've enjoyed your presence and you make a nice addition to the Barrow Downs WW gang. :)

Thank you =) I was impressed with you, I'd expect everyone to suspect me and to be lynched sooner, somehow you were the only one reading me correctly the whole time xD Maybe I'll join someday, university is starting Monday, so I won't have lots of time anyway.

Now off to sleep as well, got enough spam :P see you people! :)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Great apologies for being not here! I was out at an extremely belated birthday party. :( Won't happen again. Narration momentarily.

Day 3

The game intensified. Moves were taking a lot longer now that there were more possible combinations and counterattacks.

Shasta decided it was time for a distraction. Having reincarnated as a spirit, he flew high up into the air and dropped a gray chess piece into the middle of the board. The Gray Queen landed hard, rippling waves of force outward from her point of impact. No one noticed as Hansy the White Pawn eeped and fell off the chessboard, because Mithalwen had started to sing.

Pieces:
Durelin
Feanor of the Peredhil
Isabellkya
the phantom
Brinniel
satansaloser2005
Lariren Shadow
wilwarin538
Rikae
Eonwe
Mnemosyne
Kath

Taken:
Shasta - Ke3xe4, Night 1 (Moderator)
Gwathagor - d3xe4 (Lynched), Day 1 (White Pawn)
Eomer of the Rohirrim - Qd8xh4 (Killed), Night 2 (White Pawn)
Nerwen - Bc8xa6 (Killed), Night 2 (White Rook)
Nogrod - f6xg5 (Lynched), Day 2 (White Knight)
Mirandir - Ba6xe2 (Killed), Night 3 (White Pawn)
Hansy - g3xh2 (Lynched), Day 3 (White Pawn)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Night 4

Lariren Shadow was in a bind. Sauron had moved her into exactly the worst spot on the board, and now there was nowhere she could move that she wouldn't be taken. There wasn't anything she could do about it either; all the Black Rook could hope for was to take someone down with her. Grimacing, Sauron shoved the piece down the board where it collided with Eonwe. The White Pawn tumbled off the board, and the Black Rook rocked back and forth.

"Oh, here, let me do it," Sauron snarled as Gandalf moved to take it. He snatched up one of his own pieces and knocked his own rook off the board. Gandalf didn't notice that he left the piece in place of the rook, as he was busy watching Sauron's other hand move a piece and knock a White Bishop off the other side of the board. If a chess piece could scream, Kath definitely would have as she was swallowed by the lava.

Meanwhile, the Gray Queen Mith was still out in the middle of the board, singing her heart out.

Pieces:
Durelin
Feanor of the Peredhil
Isabellkya
the phantom
Brinniel
satansaloser2005
wilwarin538
Rikae
Mnemosyne

Taken:
Shasta - Ke3xe4, Night 1 (Moderator)
Gwathagor - d3xe4 (Lynched), Day 1 (White Pawn)
Eomer of the Rohirrim - Qd8xh4 (Killed), Night 2 (White Pawn)
Nerwen - Bc8xa6 (Killed), Night 2 (White Rook)
Nogrod - f6xg5 (Lynched), Day 2 (White Knight)
Mirandir - Ba6xe2 (Killed), Night 3 (White Pawn)
Hansy - g3xh2 (Lynched), Day 3 (White Pawn)
Lariren Shadow - Qh4xe4 (Killed), Night 4 (Black Rook)
Eonwe - Re1xe4 (Hunted), Night 4 (White Pawn)
Kath - Be2xf1 (Killed), Night 4 (White Bishop)

[Mnemosyne]

O_o

4 baddies, 1 gifted, 4 innocent. This isn't looking good.

The only thing that makes me feel even remotely close to better is that one of the baddies is a cobbler and one is divided against the others.

Now we just need to see if we can figure out from Kath's hints what her dreams were...

[satansaloser2005]

Erm....frick.

[the phantom]

So the Hunter shot Steve.

That was sporty.

[the phantom]

This isn't looking good.
Maybe so, but things can turn quickly. Let's say we lynch a Wolf today, and during the Night the WereCreatures kill each other.

Game over.

It could happen.

So as bad as things are looking, the baddies are sure to be more nervous than ever.

[Mnemosyne]

Question: does the Black Knight have to protect every night? Because that could make things very interesting: if the answer is yes, then eventually he would have to protect innocents. Which could make Night kill dynamics interesting...

[Isabellkya]

How could the werecreatures kill each other?
If one is killed by the other, then they are already dead - and can't kill their killer.

[satansaloser2005]

How could the werecreatures kill each other?
If one is killed by the other, then they are already dead - and can't kill their killer.

I think -again, I think- what he means is that we kill a wolf toDay, the Black Queen kills the remaining wolf and the Bishop kills the Black Queen. Since they made their kills on the same Night they would both count. It'd be weird though.

I don't think it'll happen though. I think there's only one way to end the game toNight, and I don't like it, so I won't even suggest it.

[Brinniel]

Well while we may be down one Black piece, the Night's events are still rather painful considering we've lost our seer. I'm not all that surprised; I suspected that Kath might be the WB from early on and if the wolves spotted the same thing I did, then it's no wonder she was toast without a White Knight (in shining armour) to save her.

I'm not surprised the Black Rook is dead either. As I said yesterDay, after the Black Queen found a wolf, there's no way she'd let them get away. Because while it helps us innocents out, the wolves are her enemy as well. And I'm not surprised it was the rook of the three. I would assume the BK would protect the BB on Night 2 and since they can't be protected twice in a row, the BR would obviously be the next protection (unless the BK had an urgent need to protect himself which apparently he didn't). However, I am surprised that the Black Rook was Lari of all people. I really thought she'd be a White Pawn. Obviously I'm gonna need to take a better look at her posts.

I'm also not surprised about Eonwe's role. His lack of involvement I thought pointed towards ordoishness. It's strange though that Lari chose to hunt him. The Black Rook would want to hunt a gifted or the BQ. Perhaps the wolves had a reason to believe that Eonwe was not a White Pawn, so it could be useful to look at his posts as well. Though there's also a chance they may have chose him as a safe kill or as someone to throw us off their tracks.

Obviously I have some reading to do. I don't know how much I'll get done tonight, but at least I don't have class tomorrow.

[satansaloser2005]

It's also possible that Lari didn't expect to get killed any time soon so she hadn't updated her pick. I'm just putting that as a suggestion.


Duck, you promised me an analysis. Get to it. :Merisu:

[Mnemosyne]

Not tonight, honey, I have a headache.

Later on toDay, though, yes.

[Brinniel]

4 baddies, 1 gifted, 4 innocent. This isn't looking good.

The only thing that makes me feel even remotely close to better is that one of the baddies is a cobbler and one is divided against the others.
I know the numbers look bad, but at least we have better odds of killing a baddie since there are so many and not all on the same team.

And anyway if my calculations are correct, we should have at least two more Days (including toDay) before we're doomed.

Question: does the Black Knight have to protect every night? Because that could make things very interesting: if the answer is yes, then eventually he would have to protect innocents. Which could make Night kill dynamics interesting...
The BK can't protect the same person twice in a row, but I believe he can still protect his mates multiple times. He'd just have to alternate between the two. But now with the rook dead, he may have to protect someone else eventually. I think he can only protect himself once. Unless the answer to your question is no, he isn't required to protect every Night, which Shasta would have to answer.

It's also possible that Lari didn't expect to get killed any time soon so she hadn't updated her pick. I'm just putting that as a suggestion.
How would she not guess that there was a good chance she'd die after the Black Queen targeted her (and she'd know that she was protected)? Also, I don't know what you mean by update her pick. A hunter submits a new choice every Night and there's no way to change her choice if she suddenly realises it might be her last Night. Once a choice is submitted, I don't think it can be changed.

[satansaloser2005]

How would she not guess that there was a good chance she'd die after the Black Queen targeted her (and she'd know that she was protected)? Also, I don't know what you mean by update her pick. A hunter submits a new choice every Night and there's no way to change her choice if she suddenly realises it might be her last Night. Once a choice is submitted, I don't think it can be changed.

It's very possible, yes. And I did forget about the whole she would know she was targeted thing. My brain went 'protected by gifted, yay for her, but she wouldn't know it' as the case would be with the rest of us players. Sorry.

[the phantom]

I'm thinking I should chatter non stop about football and explosions and such in order to give this chess board a little more testosterone.

[Mnemosyne]

To phantom

What, 8 lovely ladies ain't good enough for you?

:Merisu:

:Merisu:

:Merisu:

[Brinniel]

I'm thinking I should chatter non stop about football and explosions and such in order to give this chess board a little more testosterone.
Aww, poor phantom's the only boy left. How horrible for him to be stuck on a board with all these girls. Ick. :p

[the phantom]

Also, I don't know what you mean by update her pick. A hunter submits a new choice every Night and there's no way to change her choice if she suddenly realises it might be her last Night. Once a choice is submitted, I don't think it can be changed.
That depends on the mod, m'dear. I know that when Eomer was a Hunter in my game, his instructions were something like "Any time you want to kill someone, pm me." And it didn't matter if the WWs had already sent me their "kill Eomer" pm. If that Night phase hadn't ended yet, he could still change his pick.

[satansaloser2005]

So clever clogs Phantom pants, I want to hear your theory on me, since you said it may have changed or whatever toward the end of the Day. Do tell.

[satansaloser2005]

That depends on the mod, m'dear. I know that when Eomer was a Hunter in my game, his instructions were something like "Any time you want to kill someone, pm me." And it didn't matter if the WWs had already sent me their "kill Eomer" pm. If that Night phase hadn't ended yet, he could still change his pick.

My point exactly. I'm pretty darn sure Shasta is cool about that sort of thing, as long as it isn't "Oooo I want to change my kill" every five minutes.

[the phantom]

What, 8 lovely ladies ain't good enough for you?
:Merisu:
I'd rather have nine. Ten would be even better.

But I suppose you should just be happy with what you've got, right?

[the phantom]

Aww, poor phantom's the only boy left. How horrible for him to be stuck on a board with all these girls. Ick. :p
Heh heh... "Ick" isn't the word for it. Not quite. You see, this is exactly what I wanted from the beginning. You see, I am the King. My assignment was to eliminate all other males on the board. That's the reason for my votes- Gwath, Nog, and Hansy. If Steve would've been left alive today, I would've gone after him.

So yeah, the game is over. I win.

[satansaloser2005]

Heh heh... "Ick" isn't the word for it. Not quite. You see, this is exactly what I wanted from the beginning. You see, I am the King. My assignment was to eliminate all other males on the board. That's the reason for my votes- Gwath, Nog, and Hansy. If Steve would've been left alive today, I would've gone after him.

So yeah, the game is over. I win.



Ah, I understand now. That's also why Fea's so quiet. She's been out-pimped. (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=571936&postcount=568) That is contrary to, of course, pimped out. :Merisu:

[the phantom]

So clever clogs Phantom pants, I want to hear your theory on me, since you said it may have changed or whatever toward the end of the Day. Do tell.
Oh, I had many theories about you.

1) She's a WW and wants everyone to believe she's a Cobbler.

2) She's the BQ, and thinks we should let her live so she can kill that WW she failed to kill last night.

3) She's the WQ, and she can be lynched today, but if we leave her till tomorrow she can change her Lynch-Protect pick (I was assuming the WQ had this power) to herself, thus her statement that we were free to lynch her the next day.

4) She's the Black Rook and was protected during the Night, and so wants to at least survive the lynch as she figures she'll be dying that Night anyway.

5) She's a white piece of some sort, and is attempting to Cobbler fish (look guilty and see who jumps in to help her).

6) She's the Cobbler and wants everyone to think she's a WW pretending to be the Cobbler.

7) She has a secret role that no one knows about.

8) She is just being stupid because she had a bad day and wants to annoy everyone.

9) She was accidentally PMed by Shasta with everyone's Role, and so cannot fairly play any more, and she's just wasting time and messing around and has secretly been removed from the tally.

As you can see, the theories got a little desperate at the end. Though it's completely possible that I just made up those last couple.

[satansaloser2005]

Oh, I had many theories about you.

1) She's a WW and wants everyone to believe she's a Cobbler.

2) She's the BQ, and thinks we should let her live so she can kill that WW she failed to kill last night.

3) She's the WQ, and she can be lynched today, but if we leave her till tomorrow she can change her Lynch-Protect pick (I was assuming the WQ had this power) to herself, thus her statement that we were free to lynch her the next day.

4) She's the Black Rook and was protected during the Night, and so wants to at least survive the lynch as she figures she'll be dying that Night anyway.

5) She's a white piece of some sort, and is attempting to Cobbler fish (look guilty and see who jumps in to help her).

6) She's the Cobbler and wants everyone to think she's a WW pretending to be the Cobbler.

7) She has a secret role that no one knows about.

8) She is just being stupid because she had a bad day and wants to annoy everyone.

9) She was accidentally PMed by Shasta with everyone's Role, and so cannot fairly play any more, and she's just wasting time and messing around and has secretly been removed from the tally.

As you can see, the theories got a little desperate at the end. Though it's completely possible that I just made up those last couple.


I think your brains a bit fried, love. I suggest some nice ketchup (my favorite brand is Heinz (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_cT5kHYB7kLM/RzAZmUi6ukI/AAAAAAAAAIk/bEH7T9ELP3o/s320/heinz57.jpg)) and perhaps a Mountain Dew to wash your silly theories down with. A couple of them are worth keeping though.

[the phantom]

Anyway, mister proven-Pawn here is getting sleepy. Getting ready for bed now. Might look in once more before I settle down in my square for the night.

[Brinniel]

Lucky for us, she left plenty of clues...

Day 1

She made only one post with a random vote, but she did leave a few thoughts. In fact, it was this quote that made me suspect she was not an ordo:
Hmm, but I suppose I should add some thoughts in even though there's nothing to go on, otherwise I'll be leaving myself very open for a Night 1 death.

And her thoughts:
Mnemo - ducks have been proven to be evil in the past, I'll go with that!
Sally - oh definitely evil.
phantom - clearly a pawn trying to get to the other side of the board by making himself look important.
Izzy - erm, fiery depths? Not keen!
Brinn - I think innocent, therefore guilty.
Eomer - definitely innocent, at least for as long as it takes to see what this new persona is about.
Nerwen - thoughtful.
Kind of hard to tell considering most thoughts were made in a joking manner.

Day 2

Mnemo - old thoughts on phantom and Fea, pretty pointless post. Fair points on the werebear/werewolf debate. Ah more confusion, but she made a good point through it. Yeah same thoughts on Hansy. I'm intrigued that she thinks Nog is being 'ridiculously' helpful, it's an odd comment. Defends herself - 'if I were something I'd be being far more careful' seems to be the gist of it. Votes Eonwe. Bit random, and a little leaping on the bandwagon-esque, not sure about this.

sally - again a pretty obvious first post. 'Let's get the baddies.' Not keen on her voting reasons. Fea for bad vibes whereas Nerwen for an actual reaction, yet she sticks with Fea.

phantom - silly list with himself, Mnemo and sally as bad guys and Durelin as a good guy. Just as ridiculous as my list I'd say! Defends Fea. Says the werewolves aren't really scary this time round for himself, though I think they are for the white team in general because of the sheer number of possible kills. Interesting thoughts about the Black roles - will they try to work together or work against each other. I don't think we can have any idea yet but it's interesting to see the theories. Good comments on whether it's more worth having pawns dreamt of and Gifted's revealing, I think he's actually probably right though with so many Gifted's there is a lot of leeway for false reveals leading to Days spent trying to figure out who is who. Votes Gwath in order to save Fea, despite in the previous post saying that for once he'd be alright with letting her go. Looks like old friendships got the better of him.

Durelin - votes sally due to a 'gut-feeling'. Hope we get more from her toDay as that isn't a random vote as advertised.

Izzy - says we should only focus on the roles we do know about rather than speculate about the ones we don't. I can see her point but it's often in the discussion that you begin to see role clues. Ooh interesting point about Mnemo there. Sticks to her guns and votes Gwath.

Brinn - complaint about chatter (though it was amusing ), then first bit of serious commenting even if it was obvious. But then someone's got to state it. Sees my point about the possibility for fake reveals. List post seems to say suspicious of Fea, Gwath, Eonwe and Mnemo. Reasons for all. Vote Gwath, pretty consistent.

Eomer - somewhat cryptic, mostly unhelpful. Says I deliberately voted for the only person who had said anything sensible. Wrong but interesting. Says he will be looking out for patterns on Day 2. The wolves know he's a dangerous player and with so little said Day 1 it makes him a sensible kill. Votes sally for saying nothing and then saying something that by the time she said it was pointless - I agree actually.

Nerwen - wonders whether sally or phantom might have been making a confession through the banter. As she was killed by the wolves I think it's unlikely. This was most probably an attempt to start some real discussion. Same thoughts as most about Hansy, interesting ones about Rikae especially given that Nog spoke for her only a post or two before. As for me, unfortunately Kath votes like that on a fairly regular basis whether good or evil because somehow Day 1's seem not to register.

Hansy - sort of introduction post. Interesting role question, not sure where she/he (?) is coming from with it. Will the black pawn turn into a white pawn if dreamt of by the black bishop. Tis somewhat like what I thought the White Queen might do but it's an odd question from a newbie. Or does she/he mean they will be seen as an innocent rather than the cobbler? Could do with some clarification there. Interesting thoughts about the werebear though again I'm not quite sure. 'Hired gun' for the innocents? Even if the werebear was revealed they would surely not work for the side of good, and indeed the wolves would surely kill them off. You know she/he has some really interesting thoughts resulting from all this role confusion but I do with she/he had just read the rules! Ah! Hansy is male, I shall now remember this. Defends himself ... but not well. Votes Fea - admits it's retaliation. I don't like it.

Eonwe - given what he's said on the admin thread I'm going to leave him be til we know whether he's still playing or not.

wilwa - hmm, also mentions the 'confessions' thing. Obviously no one trusts someone who 'reveals' anymore! Some interesting thoughts about the roles, especially what the White Queen might actually be. Says she is likely to bandwagon because she doesn't know players - odd comment. Suspicion of Brinn, Gwath and Eonwe with some reasoning and votes Eonwe because she didn't want to add a new person to the vote possibilities. I don't know, it's seems likely a perfectly sensible vote but, you know, it is a bandwagon at this point and she had said she was going to join one. Without the earlier comment this wouldn't have pinged at all but as it is I'm not sure.

Nog - 'even a joke should have some meaning' he quotes, yet this post doesn't. Clears up the role confusion pretty well I think. Same point I thought of with the discussion leading to potential slips thing. Worried about Mnemo, sally and Brinn but mostly me. Hopefully I've explained what he was worrying about. Some good points about Hansy. Usual 'why oh why can't they post more often' comments. I agree with him about wilwa being odd though. Doesn't like all the random votes that aren't actually random. Despite the fact that he thought I was doing the same thing I am inclined to agree with him in some cases. Very non-commital in his big post. The only person he seems to have any sure thoughts about is Rikae (innocent), everyone else is 'could be evil, might not be'. Complete turnaround on Rikae. Do you know this makes me think she actually could be a wolf. Nog, with all the love in the world, can be as utterly wrong as any of us and for the only person he is 'sure' of to suddenly look suspicious and for him to change his opinion of his own accord makes him look good and her look bad. Votes Fea but I don't think it's good reasoning, she only mentioned her theory because she decided that he wasn't the Seer, otherwise she wouldn't have said a thing. He is taking a very different line on the Fea thing, which does seem to have divided everyone, but he's got some good reasoning behind it even if I disagree. I hadn't even considered that she might be the Cobbler but then I'm looking at the original comment differently I think.

Fea - defends phantom. Oh Fea noticed that werebear thing from Hansy as well. Votes Hansy, I can see why. He/she seemed to know so much to start with and then suddenly gets so many things mixed up, it's tempting to think it's an act.

Rikae - interesting role thoughts. The White Queen could well be multigifted. I wondered at the beginning whether she might be something like that DW characters in that she might be able to 'turn' a black piece into a white one but then I think it would unbalance the game. Voiced some early suspicion of Nerwen and is as cross with Nog for focusing on the same old things as I generally am. I'm not sure why the suspicion of Nerwen unless it was based wholly on a previous game though. Argues with Hansy and mentions Eomer's distate for Day 1. Says she may vote for Nerwen for what she said before, Izzy or Eonwe. Not a huge amount of reasoning but alright for Day 1, though I'd have liked more detail about Nerwen. Votes Eonwe, the only person in her list for whom she had not explained her reasoning. Would definitely like to know what that was about.

Gwath - spoke to Mith, pointed out Mnemo's Who reference. Makes no sense. We should focus on neither the wolves nor the bear? That's going to help. Good point about wilwa. Votes Fea, because of what Nog said, which I think was wrong anyway. I do wish we could see more of his own thoughts. The poor guy does get lynched early so often but, and again without wanting to sound harsh, it does seem to be entirely his own fault. Actually is working from a really funny angle as regards Fea because the bit he is quoting is after the fact, she's outing her theory, she's saying she's wrong and that's what he picks up on not the previous hint - yep, can definitely see why he died.

Mirandir - wants Fea lynched. Well thus far she's not said a lot but I'm sure a few posts further in I'll be agreeing! Says he won't vote newbies, fair enough.

Lari - good role thoughts, I think that yes the Black Queen would die even if she killed the Hunter because the Hunter takes down whoever they've picked if they die. I agree with her about what would happen if anyone tried to 'blackmail' the Black Queen. List post: ends up with Fea, Nog and Rikae looking suspicious. Didn't quite follow her reasoning about Nog but possible wolf collaboration between Fea and Rikae is an interesting idea. Votes Nog, ah and now I understand the earlier comment. Well, she'll have a field day with this if she thinks analysis = guilty!

Bleurgh that got long. So, from this I'd say (ignoring those who died):

Possibly guilty - for all of them because I didn't like the vote mostly, either because it didn't seem to follow on or wasn't explained well:
Mnemo
sally
Hansy
wilwa
Rikae

Possibly not - for the first three because of their consistency:
Izzy
Brinn
Lari
phantom - he's too laid back, too not involved to be something important.

No idea - mostly would simply like to hear more from them:
Mirandir
Fea
Nog
Eonwe
Durelin

Mnemo - first post makes me feel better about her. Good point about Eomer and about sally. I believe it is the former when it comes to phantom and Nog, two egotistical innocents battering each other.

sally - I certainly don't think it's odd that phantom voted to save Fea, he thought she was innocent, don't know about Brinn. Now do know about Brinn, think this is still odd.

Fea - fair explanation.

Mirandir - says she would have voted Gwath to save Fea, useful to know, would be nice to know why she wanted to save Fea.

Brinn - ah Brinn being pessimistic, now that makes me feel good about her! Fair points on the kills and her follow-through on sally is interesting. Odd comment at the end though, saying that actually Fea and Eonwe dropped off her suspicion list yesterDay though they aren't off the hook. If they're not baddies then how can they be on the hook?

Rikae - interesting that she figured Nerwen out, no one else seems to have had any idea. She's a bold enough wolf to come out and say it. That said I agree with her about Fea. Hmm I can see her points about Izzy. Actually I really can, from what I recall about Izzy in past games she has been really good at coming up with original ideas and posting well and this game she hasn't done much of that.

Lari - suspicion of Hansy for what he said about Fea.

wilwa - good point about Mirandir though she did explain it. To be honest this list post is like Nog's yesterday, no real opinions just 'could be this, not sure, will keep an eye open'. Except Mnemo, whom she seems pretty certain of. Votes Mnemo - well it's consistent.

Nog - interesting thoughts about how to find the werebear, though of course that says nothing about role as both sides want rid of them. Not sure the White Queen would have an extra kill, if she got it wrong and we had three kills a Night ... that's a lot of deaths. Hmm, with the letters. I think K stands for King, Shasta is the mod and therefore the king, then d is going to stand for pawn, why it's not a p I don't know, and that then Q is queen and B is, well bishop I gues but wolves in general. The numbers though I think are random. Fea did answer the question you know. Still, he's decided she's the Cobbler and will thus leave her be and so I see no point in spending time debating that with him. I disagree with him about phantom. phantom believes Fea is innocent. If Fea turns out not to be innocent then and only then will phantom follow Nog. Seems clear. Aww Nog you still hate me because I always seem to have RL reasons Day 1? You know I always make up for it. Fair point about sally. Votes Izzy which is interesting as, while I agree with the reasoning, I don't think he'd mentioned her a lot before.

Hansy - says he would have voted for sally. Thinks Nog is evil. I disagree, I think Nog got the different end of a stick. The whole thing between him and Gwath smacked of two innocent fighting it out to me.

Durelin - interesting point about Brinn, will look at that. Have looked, no she said Gwath and Fea were both on her suspicion list so either way she voted it would have been consistent.

So from that:

Possibly guilty:
sally - don't like her reasoning yesterDay or toDay.
Izzy - for what I said above.
Rikae - because I think she could be an incredibly bold wolf.
Hansy - still not keen.

Possibly not:
Fea - yeah I'm still not convinced about the Black Pawn thing.
phantom - again too uninvolved to be anything.
wilwa - that consistency has just made me happier about her.
Nog - he's a misguided innocent, he has to be. Any argument like the one between him and phantom has to be innocent on innocent.
Mnemo - I'm much happier about her toDay.

No idea:
Mirandir - want to see more from her, a lot more.
Durelin - would like more of an explanation about Brinn.
Brinn - want an answer to that question before she goes in a list.
Lari - I'm just not getting anything here.
Eonwe - as I said, leaving him alone.

From these I'm going to guess that phantom was the Night 1 dream, as he's the only one who consistently remains on the innocent list as she analyses both Days. Nogrod looks to be her second dream. Notice how he switches from "no idea" on her Day 1 analysis to definitely innocent after Day 2. Her confidence in Noggie's innocence is one reason I did suspect she may be the seer. And again note how she mentions the phantom/Nogrod argument MUST be innocent on innocent (and not ordo on ordo). Hence:

Night 1 dream: phantom
Night 2 dream: Nogrod

Day 3

Having been relatively happy about Mnemo and less so about sally yesterDay I find that my opinions have pretty much reversed themselves after toDay's posts. Mnemo all but yelling at phantom to stop talking about possible White Queen abilities was just very, very odd. There is almost no chance that he's going to get the answer right, we're going to have to wait until either a reveal or the final narration to get the answers to that, so it's interesting and it gets discussion going and it makes people take a really close look at the voting records but it isn't dangerous to the White Queen because quite honestly if phantom had figured out what the role actually was I don't believe he'd say it out loud.

sally on the other hand I think is making sense. She is having a good think about WQ possibilities and generally feels good to me. wilwa's vote for her I can sort of follow, there is logic behind it even if I disagree with it, whereas Eonwe's strikes me as a little odd. It's sort of come out of the blue from a little PS into full blown suspicion.

I'm not going to do a full analysis of everyone toDay. I'm simply too tired for it. I will hang around though and stick my nose in on occasion.
Oh, because it's come up a couple of times I should mention, my reasoning for voting Izzy wasn't a regurgitation of Nog's reasoning. In fact if it was a repeat of anyone's suspicions it was Rikae's - it was what she said about Izzy that made me take a second look.
phantom, sally - quit it, or we'll end up with another fight on our hands like yesterDay.

I don't like either of the voting options so far toDay. phantom I still think has no role, like I said he's far too laid back. sally is as jumpy as ... something very jumpy (leave me alone it's 2 in the morning!) and all her hinting is nonsense. Either she's figured out who has a role and is trying in some perverse way to protect them or she's the Cobbler, either way we're better off leaving her alone. Mnemo you said the Cobbler is dangerous at the end - sure, but we won't get to the end with three wolves and a bear alive!

Anyway, those two are out of the voting picture for me. The three who are in it are Mnemo because of what I said earlier, Hansy because I still think there's a bit of a put-upon newbie act there and Izzy for the same reasons as yesterDay, although her posts today have looked a little better.

I'd actually be happy voting either Mnemo or Hansy, but I'd rather vote the one I have more chance of gaining followers for because I don't want to see phantom or sally lynched toDay. Looking at what sally and Rikae have said it seems I'm more likely to get support for:

++HANSY
She obviously didn't dream of Izzy or Mnemo or she wouldn't have voted Hansy. So Sally looks to be her Night 3 dream as she mention that her suspicion of her has reversed. Also, this quote: "phantom, sally - quit it, or we'll end up with another fight on our hands like yesterDay" seems like she is hinting towards the innocent on innocent fight she mentioned yesterDay.

In conclusion, the dreams are most likely:

Night 1: phantom
Night 2: Nogrod
Night 3: Sally

Of course there's the possibility that either phantom or Sally are the Black Pawn, but at least I think it's safe to assume that neither of them are the Black Queen, Knight, or Bishop.

[satansaloser2005]

To Brinn:

:eek:

Excuse me?

[Brinniel]

That depends on the mod, m'dear. I know that when Eomer was a Hunter in my game, his instructions were something like "Any time you want to kill someone, pm me." And it didn't matter if the WWs had already sent me their "kill Eomer" pm. If that Night phase hadn't ended yet, he could still change his pick.
Yeah that is true, I guess it wouldn't surprise me if the hunter's allowed to change his kill. Though at the same time I don't think Shasta would be like, "Oh btw, you're gonna die toNight so if you want to change your hunt choice you better do it now." :p

[Brinniel]

Excuse me?
What's the matter, dear? Am I wrong about you? :Merisu:

[the phantom]

Oooh. Somebody just got put into a tough spot.

[the phantom]

You don't realize what you've done, Brin.

But you will soon enough.

[Mnemosyne]

...Well, there go my analyses.

Though sally is still acting remarkably cobblerish.

Problem is, it was so freakishly spontaneous!

So, for those of us who are not-known but innocent, we have 3 known innocents on our hands. (Well, maybe one cobbler)

Which means that of the others, 2 are also innocent, one is our dearly beloved WQ, and 3 are killers.

And if sally and phantom aren't cobblers, that makes our chances even better.

[satansaloser2005]

Day One Votes

Kath-->Nerwen at 6:36am
Fea-->Hansy at 4:37pm
Durie-->Sally at 4:39pm
Steve-->Gwath at 4:55pm
Eomer-->Sally at 6:18pm
Rikae-->Steve at 9:26pm
Hansy-->Fea at 9:45pm
Lari-->Nog at 10:17pm
Nog-->Fea at 10:25pm
Willa-->Steve at 10:36pm
Gwath-->Fea at 10:41pm
Izzy-->Gwath at 11:37pm
Sally-->Fea at 11:56pm
Mnemo-->Steve at 11:58pm
Phantom-->Gwath at 11:58pm
Brinn-->Gwath at 11:59pm

Did not vote: Mira



Day Two Votes

Willa-->Mnemo at 4:33pm
Noggie-->Izzy at 6:10pm
Kath-->Izzy at 7:21pm
Hansy-->Noggie at 7:31pm
Rikae-->Izzy at 7:50pm
Fea-->Izzy at 10:15pm
Lari-->Hansy at 10:50pm
Mnemo-->Kath at 11:53pm
Izzy-->Sally at 11:55pm
Sally-->Hansy at 11:57pm
Mira-->Mnemo at 11:58pm
Brinn-->Noggie at 11:58pm
Phantom-->Noggie at 11:59pm
Izzy-->Noggie at 12:00am
retraction of Izzy-->Sally at 11:55pm
Sally-->Izzy at 12:00am
retraction of Sally-->Hansy at 11:57pm

Did not vote: Durie, Steve



Day Three Votes
Durie-->Phantom at 12:14pm
Willa-->Sally at 5:43pm
Steve-->Sally at 5:47pm
Kath-->Hansy at 7:42pm
Fea-->Izzy at 9:27pm
Sally-->Hansy at 10:02pm
Rikae-->Izzy at 10:15pm
Hansy-->Phantom at 10:19pm
Lari-->Hansy at 11:39pm
Mnemo-->Hansy at 11:54pm
Brinn-->Izzy at 11:57pm
Phantom-->Hansy at 11:58pm
Hansy-->Sally at 11:59pm
retraction of Hansy-->Phantom at 10:19pm
Izzy-->Sally at 12:00am


By the way, I'm not taking for granted Phantom's innocence nor even my own, though we're both innocent. I only put someone as known if they're dead or flat out revealed. Thanks for listening.

[satansaloser2005]

Blah. I'm with Phantom on this; I need some sleep.

I'll be busy most of the rest of the Day, at least in theory. So if I'm not around until a few hours before deadline it's because I'm at work. (I currently don't know if they'll need me to come in or not, and won't know until shortly before I would leave anyway.) Just wanted to give you all a heads up and stuff.


Good night, dear ones. Post lots and lots while Silly Sally sleeps!

[Brinniel]

You don't realize what you've done, Brin.

But you will soon enough.
Yeah, apparently I don't.

But of course analysing the seer is obviously evil. :rolleyes:

Kath left a clear trail to her dreams in case she was killed, and if anyone disagrees with my conclusions, feel free to point out another possibilities. It's late and I might have missed something.

Anyway, I can't see anything wrong with discussing Kath's possible dreams. Someone was going to analyse it if not me, and even if no one did, players would still reach these conclusions on their own. Yeah, it makes both tp and Sally great target for toNight (unless the baddies think one of you is the cobbler), but at this point it's better to have some known innocents around since it'll increase our chances of finding a baddie. Plus, if both black teams are still alive toNight, there's a chance that they'll choose the same kill resulting in only one kill for the Night.

[the phantom]

But of course analysing the seer is obviously evil. :rolleyes:
No, no, I wasn't trying to say that. You didn't do anything wrong. It was kinda unavoidable. But Sally's reaction makes me think that she didn't see it coming.
Kath left a clear trail to her dreams in case she was killed, and if anyone disagrees with my conclusions, feel free to point out another possibilities. It's late and I might have missed something.
Looks fine to me.

[the phantom]

Anyway, I really need to get some rest. Playing chess is taxing.

I should be checking in about eight hours from now.

[the phantom]

Youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP0sqRMzkwo) is great.

Don't (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4ZnGprplKU) you agree?

Enjoy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iHO6B33_eA)!

Nighty-night.

[Brinniel]

Okay phantom. I'm afraid now you're just confusing me...

I actually wrote up a lengthy post to analyse Lari, but it ended up being mostly lengthy quotes from her and no conclusions from me, so I don't think I'll bother to actually post it. I will say that her posts were rather safe and she once again played the newbie card (I guess we'll have to look out for that in the future). She voted for all known innocents (twice for Hansy), which doesn't help us much. I am quite relieved she is dead, not only because she was evil, but also because I don't think I would've ever figured her out otherwise. Lari seemed to be under a lot of people's radars, some slightly suspecting her, but not enough to actually really have a look at her (except for Izzy who did so late in the Day). Her lingering presence and vote could've been quite dangerous. Of course, there's a good chance there are more baddies who have managed to keep under the radar, so it'd be a good idea to have a look at them.

I also wanted to check out Eonwe's posts, but it's getting late so it'll have to wait for later...unless someone else beats me to it.

I need to have a closer look at everyone, and with less players it should be easier for me to do without taking too much time. As of now, one player that does stick out to me is Fea who I think garners some attention. One thing I noticed looking back through the game is how strange it was that she nearly got lynched on Day 1, then in the following Days received almost no suspicion at all. Of anything else, I find that most alarming. I think I'll take a closer look at her posts come tomorrow as I have a strong hunch that she is a baddie of some sort.

I also said I would look at wilwa, which I will, though I feel less sure about her. The main problem I have with wilwa is that she feels so innocent, that I worry I may be horribly deceived. After all, it's happened before.

Hmm...it seems I've assigned myself quite a bit of homework. Though I probably won't get around to it until the evening. For now, it's off to bed with me.

[Rikae]

Bah. I have to go, no time to catch up, but I'll be back later. There's one thing I'ld like to ask, though.
Sally, why did you put on that hunter show yesterDay? Did you have a reason, or was it just random....?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Sally, why did you put on that hunter show yesterDay? Did you have a reason, or was it just random....?

She had, I think, a reason.

I'm just not settled on which. I'm thinking, and willing to assume, that she wanted to see who would react, and how. I definitely don't think she's a wolf. She's cocky and gutsy, but rarely suicidal unless she's already considered a goner. Which she wasn't. She was up to something, I'm sure of it. Sal, is it too soon to tell us?

The phantom: everybody's going to kill me for saying this, but I figure he's probably been dreamed of. With eight dreams available over the past few Nights, I can't imagine the White- hang on, I just idiotically realized that Brinn just did this. Anyway... I concur with Brinn's statement.

Durelin I think is downright evil, based on the fact that I think Brinn is right about who was dreamed of by Kath, and just yesterday Durelin spent all this time saying that Sally and the phantom were blacker than black. Either she was ironically oblivious, or Durelin was trying to cause trouble. If she guessed Kath was the seer (which if she's a wolf, it seems fair to assume, since the wolves killed Kath...), she might have wanted the village to kill off 'known' innocents before finding out they were known.

++Durelin.

Dury, defend yourself.

[satansaloser2005]

Mnemo is ill. She will try to return to the game as soon as she feels like opening her computer, which she hopes will be sometime this afternoon/evening. That is all.

[satansaloser2005]

She had, I think, a reason.

I'm just not settled on which. I'm thinking, and willing to assume, that she wanted to see who would react, and how. I definitely don't think she's a wolf. She's cocky and gutsy, but rarely suicidal unless she's already considered a goner. Which she wasn't. She was up to something, I'm sure of it. Sal, is it too soon to tell us?

The phantom: everybody's going to kill me for saying this, but I figure he's probably been dreamed of. With eight dreams available over the past few Nights, I can't imagine the White- hang on, I just idiotically realized that Brinn just did this. Anyway... I concur with Brinn's statement.

Durelin I think is downright evil, based on the fact that I think Brinn is right about who was dreamed of by Kath, and just yesterday Durelin spent all this time saying that Sally and the phantom were blacker than black. Either she was ironically oblivious, or Durelin was trying to cause trouble. If she guessed Kath was the seer (which if she's a wolf, it seems fair to assume, since the wolves killed Kath...), she might have wanted the village to kill off 'known' innocents before finding out they were known.

++Durelin.

Dury, defend yourself.


Great minds, hun. Great minds.

I'm not commenting on which players Kath may have dreamed, but in my book Phantom and I are not black players. Add to that the fact that I found Durie sort of suspicious from the beginning, on a hunch but still suspicious, also adds to my willingness to vote her. Her vote for Phantom yesterDay and then her reluctance to break the tie between what we (sort of) know were at least three innocents doesn't make her look any shinier.

[the phantom]

Just checking in briefly before I begin my daily chess board mopping duties (i.e. going to work- but it'll be fun today, I'm taking some kids to the circus!).

Very little has happened over night, and unfortunately I don't really have time to stir up any discussion at this time. But perhaps the Dury vote will do that. I'll see where we're at when I return.

[Durelin]

I've never been lynched as a wolf (or any werecreature for that matter), and that's not going to change. :D

Her vote for Phantom yesterDay and then her reluctance to break the tie between what we (sort of) know were at least three innocents doesn't make her look any shinier.

But we don't know for sure. We can't. And we certainly didn't know a thing yesterDay.

And who did you break the tie with - someone we definitely know is innocent, so you really can't use that logic against me, dear.

Either she was ironically oblivious, or Durelin was trying to cause trouble.

:rolleyes: This is why I always regret playing these days.

I'm glad you all knew who the seer was and exactly whom she dreamed of. As if it really seems that way, with your voting records.

[satansaloser2005]

I've never been lynched as a wolf (or any werecreature for that matter), and that's not going to change. :D



But we don't know for sure. We can't. And we certainly didn't know a thing yesterDay.

And who did you break the tie with - someone we definitely know is innocent, so you really can't use that logic against me, dear.



:rolleyes: This is why I always regret playing these days.

I'm glad you all knew who the seer was and exactly whom she dreamed of. As if it really seems that way, with your voting records.


Point by point of this post.


Yes, but there's a first time for everything, love. Don't get cocky, the Black Queen could still get you. Unless of course you are the Black Queen, in which case the Bishop and Knight could still get you.

Very true, but I'm confident in the alignment/role of two of those players and one has been confirmed for all of us. I'm not saying I made the right choice, but I did make the best choice at the time. And I can use that logic, as mine was a misled, incorrect but well-meant innocent lynch, whereas you could have been orchestrating the thing all along. Not saying you were, but it's a possibility. And, if it would have helped the village, I'd have switched to myself yesterDay if it prevented the lynch of an innocent. But it wouldn't have. Besides, I was hardly going to kill Phantom, and between Hansy and Izzy he looked the most skittish and evil.

Awwww, don't despair. We still love you, you lovely little lupine, you.

As it happens....never mind. And yes, my voting record. Voted to save an innocent Gwath, voted to save a gifted Noggie, and then sadly voted to kill an innocent Hansy, though I didn't know that at the time and my secondary goals were to protect the more innocent looking lynchees. So 2/3 (3/3 in motive) lynches in favor of the village wellbeing looks absolutely horrible, I agree.


EDIT: Off to class. Back in an hour, though it might be just to check in before I go to work. I'll let you know either way.

[wilwarin538]

Wow, so I find myself greatly confused, Brinn's post about Kath's possible dreams seems to make some sense, but Sally and phantom's reactions to are really mixing me up.

Anyway, I'm gonna go back and read everything that happened toDay, again. See what I can try to figure out. I'll probably only get the chance to post once more, and my vote will be quite early.

[Durelin]

If she guessed Kath was the seer (which if she's a wolf, it seems fair to assume, since the wolves killed Kath...)

Considering phantom bragged yesterDay about knowing who the seer was, this doesn't seem like a very good argument. :p

You're so wrong again, Fea, but this time at least you have a bit better reasoning...so maybe this time you're actually a wolf. :D

You don't realize what you've done, Brin.

But you will soon enough.

Enough of that. Come out and say things if you're going to continue behaving so high and mightily. You too, Sally.

I think it's been pretty obvious this entire game that I have no clue what's going on. Why? Because I'm one of those helpless (white) pawns trying not to be manipulated too much.

Sally and phantom are cobbler lovers. That's the only explanation I can come up with for you two. :p

[Brinniel]

Durelin I think is downright evil, based on the fact that I think Brinn is right about who was dreamed of by Kath, and just yesterday Durelin spent all this time saying that Sally and the phantom were blacker than black. Either she was ironically oblivious, or Durelin was trying to cause trouble. If she guessed Kath was the seer (which if she's a wolf, it seems fair to assume, since the wolves killed Kath...), she might have wanted the village to kill off 'known' innocents before finding out they were known.
Really, is that a good enough reasoning alone to vote for Dury? Just because some players caught onto Kath doesn't mean everyone would've...and if everyone had, then Kath would've been a rather poor seer, which I don't think she was. And for one thing, while I did have a slight suspicion that Kath might be the seer, I didn't let my opinion be swayed based only on that reasoning. There were only a couple of things that made me think Kath was seerish, one being her comment about not wanting to get Night killed (though really that could've been any non-ordo) and the comments she made about Nogrod that I noticed only after his death. I didn't see her hints about tp and Sally being innocent until after her death because I didn't bother to look. Yes, I had a small suspicion that Kath was seer, but usually I'm very wrong about these things and could've easily been again. It'd be a very bad idea to assume that just because she looks seerish that she is the seer, and therefore a bad idea to just assume that the other two were innocent as well. Because if I were wrong and she turned out evil, then my judgement of everyone else would be horribly off.

Anyway, what I'm trying to get to is that Durelin could've really been completely oblivious to Kath, or even if she did notice Kath looked seerish doesn't mean she'd let her hinted dreams (which she may not have even caught onto) off the hook just because of that in case Kath wasn't the seer. Of course it's possible that Dury is in fact a baddie; I'm really not sure of what her role may be. But for Fea to vote for her based only on that reason is very weak.

Considering phantom bragged yesterDay about knowing who the seer was, this doesn't seem like a very good argument.
Oh yeah, I was going to ask phantom:

So were you right all along about who the seer was?

Of course, to keep up his reputation I'm sure he'll answer yes regardless of whether he's telling the truth or not. :p

[Rikae]

Ok, wow.

I think I just figured something out.

Somebody was interestingly specific about something, both yesterDay and toDay. If my interpretation is correct, the Black Knight should be toast. Why don't we toast xem now, then? *gets marshmallow roasting stick* Why take a risk on xem protecting xemself toNight?

The explanation I can think of for what I saw makes sense of a few puzzles. If you convince me I'm right, you have my sword*.

*voting support

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'm glad you all knew who the seer was and exactly whom she dreamed of. As if it really seems that way, with your voting records.

Due to the fact that it seemed apparent that the White Seer had dreamed only of innocents, her votes were not binding. As I was in no way attempting to personify the role of Seer, I felt no reason to mirror her actions, and was consequently free to follow my own intuition.

This statement you've made is ridiculous: suggesting that we should mimic the votes of somebody who doesn't know who is evil is suggesting the same as if you said we should all bandwagon with the opinion of a newbie ordo. Either way is a cop out. Don't bother defending yourself if your defense is simply weak mud-slinging.

Really, is that a good enough reasoning alone to vote for Dury?

Yes. Yes it is.

I will not recant my vote today. It simply isn't going to happen.

[Durelin]

This statement you've made is ridiculous: suggesting that we should mimic the votes of somebody who doesn't know who is evil is suggesting the same as if you said we should all bandwagon with the opinion of a newbie ordo. Either way is a cop out. Don't bother defending yourself if your defense is simply weak mud-slinging.

That's your argument against me, hon, thrown right back at you. Sorry you don't like it.

[Durelin]

Basically you're suggesting that I "should have known better", but instead voted for people we think the seer might have dreamed innocent, so therefore I am evil.

I'd call that mudslinging -- that I am either "too stupid" to haved recognized who the seer was and who they dreamed of, or I am a wolf. And either reason is a good one to vote for me.

Bleh. I need to stop wasting my time. Maybe I'll be back later. I'll at least come back to vote, don't worry about that. ;)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Basically you're suggesting that I "should have known better", but instead voted for people we think the seer might have dreamed innocent, so therefore I am evil.

No, I'm claiming outright that you were trying to get 'known' innocents killed off early so that in the final stretch the ordos had no information to relying on. It would be mighty convenient if everybody the White Seer dreamed of died before they could be useful.

The argument would make no sense if the wolves didn't know who the Seer was, but given that they slaughtered her last Night, nobody can really deny that they had an inkling.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

That's your argument against me, hon, thrown right back at you. Sorry you don't like it.

No. Your rebuttal states that I should have voted for who the Seer voted for. Which is foolish when the Seer was voting on hunch just like everybody else.

My accusation states that you were intentionally trying to kill the people the Seer was hinting were innocent.

Major difference being, I was trying to kill wolves, and you were trying to lynch innocents.

[Durelin]

:D

Don't you remember we just found out who the seer was toDay?

I really do have to go now. So sad, I was so enjoying this...:rolleyes: :Merisu:

[Brinniel]

No. Your rebuttal states that I should have voted for who the Seer voted for. Which is foolish when the Seer was voting on hunch just like everybody else.
I think she was trying to say that you are accusing her for suspecting the seer's known innocents, yet so did several other players. And that you seem to think that everyone should've gone along with Kath and assume Sally and tp innocent. I don't think she ever said that you should copy Kath's votes. Why is Dury so suspicious for suspecting known innocents, but not anyone else who suspected either of them?

And why do you think everyone knew who the seer was? I didn't know; I only had an itch.

[Rikae]

I don't get it, Fea. I don't want to make the mistake of voting for you again because you aren't making sense - I've seen the folly of that now - but why are you so sure Durelin was sure about the seer and her dreams? I admit, I didn't know that (I must be an idiot) - I thought she might be something, but I was far from sure and certainly didn't have a theory about her possible dreams. For that matter, why are you so sure the wolves knew, either? If we're correct in assuming her dreams were all innocent, there wouldn't have really been anything to "jump out" at the wolves; plus, killing Kath seems to fit their pattern in any event.

EDIT: X'd with Brinn

[wilwarin538]

Due to my confusion about practically everyone :rolleyes:, one of the only one's I'm still very suspicious of is Mnemo, so I will vote for her for now, since I'm not confident about being able to come back on later.

++Mnemo

[Isabellkya]

Oi to manipulation.

I think -again, I think- what he means is that we kill a wolf toDay, the Black Queen kills the remaining wolf and the Bishop kills the Black Queen. Since they made their kills on the same Night they would both count. It'd be weird though.

I don't think it'll happen though. I think there's only one way to end the game toNight, and I don't like it, so I won't even suggest it.

Ah. I would've thought that if that were the case; then it would go down to whomever submitted their name first. So I suppose it is ultimately up to the Mod hosting.

Mnemosyne, how do you figure we have three known innocents?

It may just be me. But it seems like most people (so far who've posted,) are under the impression that everyone had spotted Kath as the seer. Therefore, everyone should be on the same page with knowledge and thoughts.

I get the feeling that some are wrongly utilizing the benefits of hindsight. What I mean by this, is that you are using what we know now; and twisting it to mean that you've known it all along - or for awhile. Even if some of you had spotted the seer, I don't see how that really makes a huge difference. Yes, you may have spotted her - but that doesn't mean she was/is infallible. That you should forgo looking for baddies, while waiting for her to hand you a name on a silver platter.

It also may just be me, but the tone amongst some whom have claimed to of spotted the seer seems to be akin to - "I spotted her, therefore I'm a known innocent. Play catch up, and listen."

Anywhoo. I'm here. Though it is almost noon my time; so I'll be going away for lunch.

X'd since Fea's #663

[Rikae]

Oh yeah, on the werebear-and-wolves-killing-each-other thing:

I don't remember which, but I'm fairly sure I played a game in which two baddies attacked each other by night and both died. Call it the gingham wolf and calico bear phenomenon. ;)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

But it seems like most people (so far who've posted,) are under the impression that everyone had spotted Kath as the seer. Therefore, everyone should be on the same page with knowledge and thoughts.

No, no no no no no no.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying it was so obvious that everybody should have noticed, because let's face it: not everybody is as perceptive as I am. (;))

What I am trying to say is that I find it incredibly difficult to believe that the wolves had no idea just who they were killing last night, and chose their kill on whim thinking, "Hey, maybe we might get lucky." Wolves don't kill that way. With the White Hunter off the map, the wolves really don't need to be picky about who they kill at night, apart from not wanting to draw attention to themselves which even if they did draw attention to themselves, they could always yell that they're being framed.

What I'm saying is that the wolves had to have some idea that Kath, the seer, was the seer, and that if they knew that before the Night phase, then they had to have a decent idea who she'd dreamed of. If they didn't guess who she'd dreamed of, how would they even suspect her as the seer?

You don't look at somebody and say, "Wow, xe seems pretty sure of no player in particular. I think xe's on to something." You look at somebody and goes, "Wow, xe has repeatedly defended this player, has defended this player almost as much, starting the next day, and just started defending this player. Maybe xe, based on this pyramid pattern, might be the Seer."

The wolves must have guessed she was the Seer, and if so, what I am saying isn't that everybody was in the know, I'm saying that the wolves had insight that would have colored their action.

And if the wolves thought that Kath had dreamed of the phantom and Sally, then take a look at when Durelin spends so much time saying how evil the phantom and Sally are.

It absolutely reeks of trying to do away with players that we all now know are innocent.

I repeat, I'm not trying to say everybody should have or did notice any of this.

I'm saying that I noticed it, and that I cannot believe that the wolves, who killed our Seer, had absolutely no idea what they were doing.

---

And sorry if I come off as brash, I'm just running on all cylinders, totally manic, and I'm like... energized. I've been rearranging furniture, and I just glazed pottery, and I'm going to make this Caribbean stew I've never made for supper, and just- I'm typing mad fast without editing, so this is me just being wildly inspired by this really amazing lecture I listened to today.

Seriously, life-altering lecture.

[Durelin]

So now you're kinda basing all your arguments against me on the assumption that I am a wolf. But really I guess that's just how this game works. :D

It absolutely reeks of trying to do away with players that we all now know are innocent.

We do? And as this implies - we did? The baddies, the woles in particular, are the ones with the most information on innocents, ya know. :p

I don't really think you're a baddie. Not really. I'm hardly an important lynch. I might be/seem like an easy lynch at this point, though, I don't know.

Anyway. Your argument has been made, my somewhat of a (rash at times) counter-argument has been made. So let's move on. There are more people left than it feels like there are. You know what I mean?

wilwa's very under-the-radar. Rikae's been rather calm this game (though she's also just been busy)...should we be worried? I kinda want Rikae to be the Black Queen.

Izzy still hasn't managed to get lynched.

Brinniel, Mnemo...they're those types that people keep saying "wellll, I'm worried about them, but..." and that has never come to anything. They both feel rather innocent to me, but I do tend to be wrong.

Sally and phantom need to stop acting like wizardy cobblery types. Though I expect one of them really is our cobbler. I think phantom, and sally is just sally but eh, who cares. Basically I'll probably be completely ignoring them both.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

The baddies, the woles in particular, are the ones with the most information on innocents, ya know. :p

Oh piffle to you. :p

On a serious note, I just remembered that the cobbler is dreamed as innocent. So even though I'm convinced Kath dreamed of who Brinn said she did, I forgot the problem that they aren't actually known good guys. They're more like known not-wolves. Which is still better than nothing, but I need to be more careful about assumptions. My bad, and I apologize in general for that memory lapse.

I'll take a closer look at others later, but in case it's not obvious, I certainly have more opinions than I'm letting on. I just don't like looking wrong, so I wait until I'm reasonably certain about things to say them.

I mean, in all honesty I might be wrong about Durelin. I don't think I am, but I could be. It wouldn't be the first time I whole-heartedly went after somebody who wasn't the role I thought they were.

[Mnemosyne]

I'm totally with Brinn about how come Fea hasn't been suspected since Day One?

And now we're having a lovely chat about that (whereas before it was always just phantom and sally), which probably could get a wolf but might just end up distracting those of us who are white players from looking at others.

Izzy, what I meant by "three known innocents" was that if you are an innocent player, and we are all reasonably assured that phantom and sally are innocents of some sort, you know that those three players (including yourself) are innocent. Which narrows down the lynch opportunities, on the white side's favor.

Fea, if Dury!wolf was so darn convinced that Kath was the seer and her seer hints were correct, then why didn't Kath get killed earlier?

And for the record, I had no idea that Kath was the seer. Heck, I even voted for her.

wilwa, dear, normally I wouldn't complain if you're voting me, but since this is endgame (where everything stands on the point of a knife) that's a bad move to make for the game's sake. Could we please lynch at least one black player before this is done?

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, so I have an updated list. Hopefully it will tell the right people what I want it to tell them. *shifty eyes* And for the record, I'll explain all of this at some point. Now's just not that point, so lay off me and try to catch a baddie. I'm not worth the innocents getting all worked up over.

And now a list


Innocent
Sally
Phantom

Leaning Innocent
Izzy

No Bloody Clue Currently
Willa
Mnemo
Fea

Leaning Guilty
Brinn
Durie

Should have known
Rikae

[Isabellkya]

While I understand Brin's conclusions on the suspected dream targets of Kath. I don't see how that points to them as known innocents. Sure, it will be a higher probability that they were and are. But I don't recall Kath saying outright whom she dreamed of, and what the results were.
We indeed still have the Cobbler amongst us - though at this point I think death is the only certainty of anything.


X'd with Mnemosyne and Sally. Fixed punctuation as well.

[Mithalwen]

Is a grey queen.... I like....:Merisu:

[Mnemosyne]

...Except that I had come to the same conclusions independently. But this doesn't rule out one of those two as cobblers!

[satansaloser2005]

Blah. I hate being so indecisive. YesterDay I thought one thing, last Night another, and now I've changed my mind again. This is ridiculous.


I'm going to go read through the thread and see what I can see. Maybe look at voting records for some of the players who are still living. Back soon.


(And Mnemo? Dude, we gotta stop talking to Mith and get to work at some point. I'm just sayin'.)

[satansaloser2005]

Ok, wow.

I think I just figured something out.

Somebody was interestingly specific about something, both yesterDay and toDay. If my interpretation is correct, the Black Knight should be toast. Why don't we toast xem now, then? *gets marshmallow roasting stick* Why take a risk on xem protecting xemself toNight?

The explanation I can think of for what I saw makes sense of a few puzzles. If you convince me I'm right, you have my sword*.

*voting support


I'm wondering if you're saying what I think you're saying.

[Isabellkya]

I just had a thought..

I think I would laugh if phantom turned out to be the Cobbler and Fea turned out to be the BQ. Either it would be terribly perceptive/intuitive of phantom to save her on Day one.. or just out of habit, and thus luck.

[Rikae]

Well, the black bishop seems to have found out what I am, so I might as well reveal.

I'm the white queen. I can take the role of either a seer or a hunter. ToNight I'll be hunting Izzy, who I know can't protect herself. Sally, on the other hand, obviously can. (I don't think she could be the cobbler, unless Izzy tipped her off by some ingenious system of hints).

Unfortunatly, I seem to have dreamed one of the same people as Kath did. :rolleyes: Well, congratulations, sonny, you were dreamed by two gifteds this time (or three, if Sally was telling the truth!)

Wilwa I dreamed her on Night 1, simply based on the fact that she was an experienced player I didn't know. Last night I dreamed of Steve, unfortunately. Izzy was night 2 and tp night 3.

++Sally

EDIT: Ooops, I mean "Wilwa is an ordo, I dreamed her on Night 1"

[satansaloser2005]

Day One Votes

Kath-->Nerwen at 6:36am
Fea-->Hansy at 4:37pm
Durie-->Sally at 4:39pm
Steve-->Gwath at 4:55pm
Eomer-->Sally at 6:18pm
Rikae-->Steve at 9:26pm
Hansy-->Fea at 9:45pm
Lari-->Nog at 10:17pm
Nog-->Fea at 10:25pm
Willa-->Steve at 10:36pm
Gwath-->Fea at 10:41pm
Izzy-->Gwath at 11:37pm
Sally-->Fea at 11:56pm
Mnemo-->Steve at 11:58pm
Phantom-->Gwath at 11:58pm
Brinn-->Gwath at 11:59pm

Did not vote: Mira



Day Two Votes

Willa-->Mnemo at 4:33pm
Noggie-->Izzy at 6:10pm
Kath-->Izzy at 7:21pm
Hansy-->Noggie at 7:31pm
Rikae-->Izzy at 7:50pm
Fea-->Izzy at 10:15pm
Lari-->Hansy at 10:50pm
Mnemo-->Kath at 11:53pm
Izzy-->Sally at 11:55pm
Sally-->Hansy at 11:57pm
Mira-->Mnemo at 11:58pm
Brinn-->Noggie at 11:58pm
Phantom-->Noggie at 11:59pm
Izzy-->Noggie at 12:00am
retraction of Izzy-->Sally at 11:55pm
Sally-->Izzy at 12:00am
retraction of Sally-->Hansy at 11:57pm

Did not vote: Durie, Steve



Day Three Votes
Durie-->Phantom at 12:14pm
Willa-->Sally at 5:43pm
Steve-->Sally at 5:47pm
Kath-->Hansy at 7:42pm
Fea-->Izzy at 9:27pm
Sally-->Hansy at 10:02pm
Rikae-->Izzy at 10:15pm
Hansy-->Phantom at 10:19pm
Lari-->Hansy at 11:39pm
Mnemo-->Hansy at 11:54pm
Brinn-->Izzy at 11:57pm
Phantom-->Hansy at 11:58pm
Hansy-->Sally at 11:59pm
retraction of Hansy-->Phantom at 10:19pm
Izzy-->Sally at 12:00am






So here's the voting track of everyone who's still alive.


Durie: Sally, (no vote due to RL circumstances), Phantom
Fea: Hansy, Izzy, Izzy
Izzy: Gwath, Sally/Noggie, Sally
Phantom: Gwath, Noggie, Hansy
Brinn: Gwath, Noggie, Izzy
Sally: Fea, Hansy/Izzy, Hansy
Willa: Steve, Mnemo, Sally
Rikae: Steve, Izzy, Izzy
Mnemo: Steve, Kath, Hansy


player/player indicates a retraction, with the final vote last of course


I'm going to post this then check it for accuracy (less scrolling that way) so it will be edited as necessary just to make sure it's correct.

Also, in this version I am a known innocent. Deal with it. Phantom is innocent in my book but that doesn't mean he's not a cobbler, so he's not italicized, just to be fair and cautious at least once in my life. :rolleyes:

I'll get to more comments on this in a bit, but wanted to actually get it posted for everyone's use.

[satansaloser2005]

++Sally


Incorrect.


Okay, that brings my information right up to where it needs to be.


So, to be clear, you say that Izzy is a KI as well? Ingenious.

I had you and Izzy backwards, but still. I'm on your side, dear, and that's all I'll say. Look at my last list and try to figure out why you're in the category you are.

I need to think. Back in about five minutes.


EDIT: I'm sorry. I meant Willa, not Izzy. I read your post correctly and then typed the wrong name. I'm just retarded. Lol.

[Mnemosyne]

Ai!!!

Rikae, if you think Sally's the Black Knight, then whom do you think Kath dreamt on Night 3?

And just to be clear, what role did you dream for Izzy?

I do not trust you, dear. Why should I believe a word of what you're saying?

[satansaloser2005]

My last post turned out backwards. It's dark in here so I wrote down a bunch of stuff and then read it wrong.


Here's what we know. Repeat, KNOW. Deal with it.

Rikae: White Queen
Sally: Another White Piece (still not saying, at least for now)
Phantom: White Pawn
Willa: White Pawn
Izzy: Looked over her posts again and was actually confused, but didn't want to completely 180 and give myself away. Only one player understands what I mean by this statement and they're dead, so I'm not explaining. Now with the White Queen's opinion supporting my own, I'll come out and say let's lynch her; that's all the proof I need.

Here's what I think. Repeat, THINK. This is fallible, obviously.

Durie: Still leaning guilty.
Mnemo: Leaning guilty-ish, but having trouble with her. Rubbish.
Fea: Thinking innocent, but yeah. Dude, it's Fea.
Brinn: I'm saying what I've said all along. That is all.

[Mnemosyne]

Sally, what's your reasoning behind wilwa's innocence?

...Wait, never mind.

[satansaloser2005]

I'll second the duck. What specifically is Izzy? With that information I think I'll actually have things figured out, though I know I'm not being terribly specific right now.



And Rikae, you'll value that retraction with your life so keep ahold of it. Not for too long though. If you're lying and you succeed in your goal, things will end poorly for everyone in a way.

I couldn't be less cryptic if I tried.

[Rikae]

Ai!!!

Rikae, if you think Sally's the Black Knight, then whom do you think Kath dreamt on Night 3?

And just to be clear, what role did you dream for Izzy?

I do not trust you, dear. Why should I believe a word of what you're saying?

Izzy is the black bishop. I don't know who Kath dreamt, but it obviously wasn't Izzy.

[the phantom]

I'm back and I'm catching up on posts since my last one. I'll respond as I read.

[Isabellkya]

Say what?
What is it you think I am?

X'd with Rikae and phantom

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

*glares*

You guys are being intentionally confusing, and I dislike being confused. It gets my facade dirty.

[satansaloser2005]

Izzy is the black bishop. I don't know who Kath dreamt, but it obviously wasn't Izzy.

K, cool. That's not what I had her pegged as, so good to know. Thanks.

[Mnemosyne]

By the by, if Rikae's reveal is correct, and none of the dreams were of cobblers, then I know exactly who is good and who is bad.

Now, it's likely that some of the dreams were cobblers. But that still narrows us down enough that, especially if we can get the BQ early, we've got this game in hand.

[Rikae]

Sally, one surprise is plenty - there is no other white piece. I have no doubts in my mind about you.

[satansaloser2005]

Say what?
What is it you think I am?

Read my list post, love.

You're innocent. Or at least not an actual baddie.



Rikae, I'm sure you've considered that your dreams are still subject to the whole 'cobbler showing up as ordo' thing? I'm not saying it happened, but I figured I'd bring it up.

Hunter sucks right now. I'm gonna restart him perhaps and see if he works better after a bit of craziness (and bouncing down the stairs hehe).

[Mnemosyne]

Marvellous. I'm willing to risk an Izzy lynch to find out if Rikae's correct.

But I don't think it's a good idea to lynch Sally, given my conclusions about Kath's dreams.

[satansaloser2005]

Sally, one surprise is plenty - there is no other white piece. I have no doubts in my mind about you.



I'm not even responding to this. Read. My. Posts. Woman.


You're one of the most clever girls I've ever had the pleasure of playing with. Read my posts, and figure out what I am. I've bloody told you repeatedly.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I think Rikae is the cobbler.

I know, I know... seems to easy, right?

But I really do. Why else would she vote to lynch Sally, who I thought we were pretty settled on that Kath dreamed of as notBlack?

*is so confused*

[Mnemosyne]

One other question, Rikae: How in the blazes do you explain Izzy not dying Day 2 (if you're the WQ)?

[the phantom]

So were you right all along about who the seer was?
Kinda sorta.

After my Day 1 read-through my primary candidates were Kath and Fea, with the knowledge that the Seer could very well have shown no cards since it was only the first day. In other words, I couldn't really rule anyone out.

After I did my Day 2 read-through I ruled out everyone completely except for Sally, Rikae, Fea, and Kath. I realized that Kath and Fea were by far the most probable, and seeing as both of them matched up with dreams of Nog and I it made me feel rather dumb about my Nog vote.

As yesterday rolled along I became increasingly confident that it was Kath and not anyone else.

[Rikae]

Sally, I'll return the praise, but I have to repeat:

There is absolutely NO doubt in my mind about what you are.

Mnemo - I think it's best to lynch Sally toDay, since Izzy can't protect herself - ergo, she can't kill me toNight without killing herself.

Fea - Go back over my posts if you don't believe me. I was careful to make sure that, in the event of my death, the village would have something to go on.

[satansaloser2005]

One other question, Rikae: How in the blazes do you explain Izzy not dying Day 2 (if you're the WQ)?

Now that's what I want to know.



I'd just like to say that there is are a few scenarios possible here.

Izzy dies. We're almost certainly down a black player (whether Rikae's lying or not) because either Rikae's telling the truth or she's throwing a mate under the bus to make herself look good.
Rikae dies. We find out what Rikae is, and the truth of her information by association. And if she's telling the truth Izzy goes with her. But then we're down a White Queen.
Sally dies. We find out all of the above information. Don't ask how, we just do.



If Rikae thinks she's a goner I'd rather kill another suspect toDay and (no offense, hun) let the baddies take their chances with her. Either they'll leave her alive to save Izzy or she's die and.....wait a minute. *number crunches* Never mind, that's not an option. We may have three (or four) deaths again toNight so we best get it right toDay. I'm still waiting a bit longer to vote though, obviously.

[Isabellkya]

Sally. Well, a couple of those posts seemed confusing.


X'd with Phantom, Rikae and Sally.

[satansaloser2005]

Sally, I'll return the praise, but I have to repeat:

There is absolutely NO doubt in my mind about what you are.

Mnemo - I think it's best to lynch Sally toDay, since Izzy can't protect herself - ergo, she can't kill me toNight without killing herself.

Fea - Go back over my posts if you don't believe me. I was careful to make sure that, in the event of my death, the village would have something to go on.


Tell me what I am then. You're wrong. No matter what you think, you're wrong.


And if I die and you're lying, you realize you're in trouble too?


Sorry, I'm just getting frustrated. I legitimitely could not be more plain without actually telling you what I am, which I'm not doing, at least not now.

[satansaloser2005]

Fea - Go back over my posts if you don't believe me. I was careful to make sure that, in the event of my death, the village would have something to go on.

Don't worry. I have too. That is all.

[Mnemosyne]

Rikae: And what makes you so sure that sally is the Black Knight?

[the phantom]

Well, the black bishop seems to have found out what I am, so I might as well reveal.

I'm the white queen. I can take the role of either a seer or a hunter. ToNight I'll be hunting Izzy, who I know can't protect herself. Sally, on the other hand, obviously can. (I don't think she could be the cobbler, unless Izzy tipped her off by some ingenious system of hints).

Unfortunatly, I seem to have dreamed one of the same people as Kath did. Well, congratulations, sonny, you were dreamed by two gifteds this time (or three, if Sally was telling the truth!)

Wilwa I dreamed her on Night 1, simply based on the fact that she was an experienced player I didn't know. Last night I dreamed of Steve, unfortunately. Izzy was night 2 and tp night 3.
Okay now, what???

How do you know you were dreamed of?

And how can Sally protect herself? There isn't a Ranger any more, is there?

And you're saying you dreamed every Night, and Izzy is guilty?

And what do you mean "if Sally was telling the truth" about dreaming me? How many Bishops are there?

(hurries to read the rest of thread)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Fea - Go back over my posts if you don't believe me. I was careful to make sure that, in the event of my death, the village would have something to go on.

Yeah, but you do that every game, regardless of your role.

I mean, I never crossed you out as a candidate, so I'm not saying that I won't believe you if you convince me, I'm just concerned that not all the facts match up. It's too important for us to kill a Wolf today for me to want to take chances.

Phantom's post 708: thank godz somebody seems to be thinking the same as me (as in, :confused:).

[the phantom]

So, the situation in summary...

Rikae says that Kath could not have dreamed of Sally, for she dreamed of her and found her to be guilty.

Sally says "No, I'm not guilty. But I do have a special role. It should be obvious."

And yet she isn't challenging Rikae's claim to the Queenship, despite the fact that she says she's wrong about her.

And Rikae says we should lynch Sally and during the Night when she is killed she will take guilty Izzy with her.

Have I summed that up correctly?

Though I'm still unsure what prompted this whole thing in the first place.

[Isabellkya]

Mnemosyne, I think there is only one Cobbler in the game.




X'd with phantom

[satansaloser2005]

Here's a list, which I will fill in as it comes along. I know, the only thing worse than beating a dead horse is betting on it, but still.

If Rikae's being truthful
Durie: ?
Fea: ?
Izzy: Black Bishop
Phantom: Pawn of some color
Brinn: ?
Sally: White piece
Willa: Pawn of some color
Rikae: White Queen
Mnemo: ?


If Rikae's lying
Durie: ?
Fea: ?
Izzy: ?
Phantom: Pawn of some color
Brinn: ?
Sally: White piece
Willa: ?
Rikae: Black Queen. Or Black Knight. Either's possible.
Mnemo: ?

That means that, once the Black Queen finds the Black Knight (which she may have already done, as Rikae implied earlier) the Knight is either dead toNight or toMorrow, no matter how the Rikae issue pans out. And even if the Queen doesn't kill them right away, they can only protect themself once so as soon as the Queen decides to kill them they're dead.



I hope Rikae's telling the truth, that's all I know.

I was thinking, over thinking
cause there's just too many scenarios to analayze
Look in my eyes 'cause you're my dream please come true

Now I miss Kath and Nerwen. Such lovely girls.

[satansaloser2005]

So, the situation in summary...

Rikae says that Kath could not have dreamed of Sally, for she dreamed of her and found her to be guilty.

Sally says "No, I'm not guilty. But I do have a special role. It should be obvious."

And yet she isn't challenging Rikae's claim to the Queenship, despite the fact that she says she's wrong about her.

And Rikae says we should lynch Sally and during the Night when she is killed she will take guilty Izzy with her.

Have I summed that up correctly?

Though I'm still unsure what prompted this whole thing in the first place.



She didn't say she dreamt me as evil. If she did (which is not what I got out of it) she's lying, because I'm not evil. But I'm not the Queen either; I already said that.


Ketchup, Phantom. Ketchup. Think about it, sweetie. You know what I am implying as my role. Read back.

[the phantom]

I hope Rikae's telling the truth, that's all I know.
You hope she's telling the truth?!

But she said that you should be lynched, you nutball!

[Rikae]

Answers to tp:

She was preparing to impersonate me; Black Knight; Yep; White and Black Bishops and White Queen = 3. Oh, and I didn't actually dream of Sally, anyway, but of Izzy.


But now I think I may have stumbled into a trap. Sally could very well be the cobbler, or something else, and now I've outed myself. Well, I still have my hunting ability, and I can hunt Izzy, of whom I'm sure... but she may be protected. :(

[the phantom]

You know what I am implying as my role. Read back.
Yes, I friggin know what you're implying, but the rules don't say anything about it, so I'm not going to assume anything.

[satansaloser2005]

You hope she's telling the truth?!

But she said that you should be lynched, you nutball!


I mean about her role, silly.

If she's the Queen, she's a Queen who's about to make a grave mistake. For the love of Orion, Rikae, leave me be and catch a baddie!


If she's evil, she's playing brilliantly and it's her goal to get me lynched anyway. But if she's evil and she gets me lynched....well, yeah. I'm gonna laugh. I'll probably cry too, but I'll giggle in between sobs.

[satansaloser2005]

Yes, I friggin know what you're implying, but the rules don't say anything about it, so I'm not going to assume anything.




Good. I thought so, but everything's going to Senior Seminar in a handbasket. Sorry, I'm just getting so darn impatient.

[Mnemosyne]

Okay, Rikae, here we go. I am not saying that this is what Sally is, but it's certainly what she's claiming to be.

First of all, keep in mind that all this madness only started on Day Three:

Does that make sense to anyone else? Or should I don a white straitjacket and take Hunter to the happy home to post for the rest of the Day?

To which I said,

Sweetheart, Nerwen's dead.

To which sally said,

Never said she wasn't, love. What's your point?

To which I said,

Nothing; just a bit of punnery. Under different circumstances that would've looked like a veiled reveal.

To which sally said,

Pfffft. Do you really think I'd be that obvious?

And now Sally's claiming she's being obvious.

Later on, when Steve asks Sally if she's the black pawn, she says,


EDIT: Yes as in I'm playing riskily, not yes I'm the Black Pawn. I am a white girl and proud of it, kthnxbye. (And no, that was not meant to be racist, just in case anyone wondered.)

This goes in accordance with her earlier stating that she was innocent. But she no longer says that she's a pure, role-less innocent.

Her next quote is

Well said, Kath. Besides, I'm not the Black Pawn. Or the Black Anything, for that matter. Killing me, or at least killing me toDay, would be a grave mistake. If you must kill me kill me after I've had a Night to think about the game, perhaps make some choices that will impact the village for the good.

What really tipped me off as to what she's been trying to convey is this quote, here:

I am not the White Bishop. I will at no point be saying that I am the White Bishop, the White Queen, or any black piece, for I am none of them.

Thank you for your time. Please try again.

She only mentions those white gifteds which are still in the game, which is completely logical. At the same time, that leaves open white pieces that have already been killed. As she says at the end of the day,

I miss Nerwen



I have no idea what sally actually is, but she seems to be saying that she's a second hunter, probably hunterified during Night Three because Shasta is weird. And she also seems to be implying by her "we'll know x if I'm killed" that she's a logical hunter.

And since I'm willing to believe that Kath dreamed sally Night Three, that implies that she's at the worst a cobbler.

Rikae, you are NOT making this look good for yourself. I want to believe you so badly, but you're not.

...And she just said "for the love of Orion." THE HUNTER. THE FREAKING HUNTER.

So that is who Sally says she is.

...Right, sally?


...Right?







*crickets chirp*

[Rikae]

I mean about her role, silly.

If she's the Queen, she's a Queen who's about to make a grave mistake. For the love of Orion, Rikae, leave me be and catch a baddie!

Um, the obvious question then would be:
How do you explain having a role that isn't supposed to exist?


If she's evil, she's playing brilliantly and it's her goal to get me lynched anyway. But if she's evil and she gets me lynched....well, yeah. I'm gonna laugh. I'll probably cry too, but I'll giggle in between sobs.

And if I'm good, and you're not lying, the wolves will laugh...

[satansaloser2005]

:Merisu:

[Isabellkya]

I thought Rikae was referring to Sally as the Black Knight. Or am I mistaken amongst all of these crosspostings?

Either way, I'm certain Rikae is lying, for various reasons.


X'd since phantom's #714. Bah at all of these cross postings..

[Mnemosyne]

...In case you're wondering, that's my sally-analysis/crack theory.

That's right, folks, she's claiming to have a role that doesn't exist.

So either she's a cobbler (whom we ignore and don't kill) or she's an innocent playing with our minds or she's telling the truth.

So, Rikae, if you're correct and not a cobbler/wolf/bear, let's just give sally the benefit of the doubt and get rid of Izzy toDay.

[satansaloser2005]

By the way, in case Rikae is lying, Izzy would be the obvious choice for White Queen. I'm not saying Rikae's lying, nor that Izzy's good, but if Rikae's evil Izzy's got my allegiance.

[Rikae]

Mnemo -
I know she's been implying that. There isn't any Hunter, though, only the White Queen, and I know for a fact she isn't that, so she has to be evil.

*sigh*

EDIT: X'd with Mnemo and Sally. Oh, I see - I thought you were saying you didn't see why I found her evil. OK.

[Mnemosyne]

No, you don't, Rikae. Day Two lynch* showed me quite clearly that there is more going on in this game than meets the eye. The mod probably has reserved the right to change the rules without our knowing it if he thinks it makes a better game.


*You still haven't explained that, btw. If Izzy was so darn evil and you knew it, how did she not die unless there are roles that you don't know about? (Since if you're the White Queen you obviously wouldn't have tried to save her)

[satansaloser2005]

Mnemo -
I know she's been implying that. There isn't any Hunter, though, only the White Queen, and I know for a fact she isn't that, so she has to be evil.

*sigh*

EDIT: X'd with Mnemo and Sally. Oh, I see - I thought you were saying you didn't see why I found her evil. OK.



Gah! I'm leaving for a while. Need to clean up our room both for practical purposes and so I don't go postal and decide to kill Queenie over here.


Back later. I'll still be checking in, so never fear.

[Rikae]

Oh, ok, to explain my reasoning, then *tries to calm down*

It might have seemed more obvious to me that the white queen had hunting powers, since I've known that all along, so I immediately jumped from "Sally is saying she's the Hunter" to "Sally is saying she's the WQ".

It's just the same as in chess - the queen has the powers of both a rook and a bishop. I have no idea why Sally would impersonate the WQ if she wasn't evil; and I also can't imagine how she could be an extra hunter that doesn't exist.

Now I really have to go make dinner for my kids. Don't do anything rash while I'm gone, people, please.

[Mnemosyne]

It's just the same as in chess - the queen has the powers of both a rook and a bishop. I have no idea why Sally would impersonate the WQ if she wasn't evil; and I also can't imagine how she could be an extra hunter that doesn't exist.

That's about the first thing that you've said that lends support to you saying you're the White Queen.

But could you please say whether you had any role in the crack that was the Day Two death?

[Rikae]

*You still haven't explained that, btw. If Izzy was so darn evil and you knew it, how did she not die unless there are roles that you don't know about? (Since if you're the White Queen you obviously wouldn't have tried to save her)

You actually have a good point with that.

[Isabellkya]

I highly doubt Shasta would change the rules as the game went along - just to make it a better game. The rules are quite set before the game even begins.


X'd with Mnemosyne and Rikae

[Rikae]

All right, let me try to sort this out:

If we lynch Izzy toDay, and Sally is the BK, I'm dead toNight (unless she already protected herself) since she has nothing to fear from me.

If we lynch Izzy and Sally is the extra Hunter she claims to be, we're in good shape, but probably none the wiser.

If we lynch Sally and she is the BK, I can hunt *somebody* toNight (still a bear out there, too) and we can lynch Izzy toMorrow.

If we lynch Sally and she's this extra Hunter thing, lets hope she hunts Izzy and not me, or you're down both gifteds in one blow, with two unknown baddies still out there.

Well, I guess I'll go with what you guys choose, but yeah.

Now I really have to make dinner.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

It's just the same as in chess - the queen has the powers of both a rook and a bishop. I have no idea why Sally would impersonate the WQ if she wasn't evil; and I also can't imagine how she could be an extra hunter that doesn't exist.

So... do you think the BQ has this same power, if it's the same as normal chess? That the BQ sees, hunts, and kills at night? It seems like the odds would be stacked in xer favor, if that was the case...

And I really don't know why Sally's impersonating a Hunter any more. I mean, I thought I did, but now I really have no clue. I think she's innocent, so I can't for the life of me figure out why she's pretending to be a role we don't know about. Unless the WQ has the ability to turn an innocent into a cohort? You know, like a pawn gets queened, or whatever? You'd think Shasta might have mentioned that, though.

Edit: ditto Izzy; I don't think Shasta would do something like that.

Edit 2: x'd Rik

[Mnemosyne]

If we lynch Sally and she's this extra Hunter thing, lets hope she hunts Izzy and not me, or you're down both gifteds in one blow, with two unknown baddies still out there.

Well, if we're going with Sally's claim, she's also claiming (I can find the quotes if you'd like) that she's another logical hunter. So if you are who you say you are, and Sally hunts you, and she tells us she's hunting you, and you don't die but the narration reveals her as a second White Rook, then we know you're a white piece. For all the good that would do, as I'm pretty sure that that would sign your death warrant.

[satansaloser2005]

All right, let me try to sort this out:

If we lynch Izzy toDay, and Sally is the BK, I'm dead toNight (unless she already protected herself) since she has nothing to fear from me.

If we lynch Izzy and Sally is the extra Hunter she claims to be, we're in good shape, but probably none the wiser.

If we lynch Sally and she is the BK, I can hunt *somebody* toNight (still a bear out there, too) and we can lynch Izzy toMorrow.

If we lynch Sally and she's this extra Hunter thing, lets hope she hunts Izzy and not me, or you're down both gifteds in one blow, with two unknown baddies still out there.

Well, I guess I'll go with what you guys choose, but yeah.

Now I really have to make dinner.


Go make dinner, hun. Take a couple hours away from the computer. Maybe you'll come back and realize what's going on. Heh, fat chance.

I think Shasta just hates me. :(



I know this isn't going to be popular, but....

What if we lynched someone else? If Rikae's telling the truth and they kill her, Izzy's gone. True, we're out a Queen, but I'd almost say it's worth the risk.

And Rikae, if you are as you say and I'm not killed toDay, dream me toNight. It's not so you'll trust me, although that would make my life easier, but so....yeah. Stuff and junk.


Let's just say that no matter what I know who I am and I know the role of one other player. I don't dream, and I don't save. You already know what I'm claiming to be and you know I don't lie about my role (though I can understand how people wouldn't believe me about that) so if I said if flat out would that help? Because we don't have much longer to catch the baddies and while I wanted to cause a bit of a stir yesterDay and toDay I didn't expect such a circus.


My death will sort this all out. If you're all truly confused, kill me. Everything that has been said toDay will become clear. I'll even Nilp myself if it benefits the village. At this point I'm going to take my bloody meds and grab some dinner, so let me know what you (the village) would like me to do.

At your service as always,

~~Sally the WHITE ROOK, MARK TWO, people!~~

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Note on chess notation for all you chess players out there: The King and the Knight both start with a K. In chess notation, the King is denoted by "K" and the Knight denoted by "N". Just thought I'd clarify in case someone wants to know what the "BK" or "BN" is and can't figure it out.

[satansaloser2005]

Note on chess notation for all you chess players out there: The King and the Knight both start with a K. In chess notation, the King is denoted by "K" and the Knight denoted by "N". Just thought I'd clarify in case someone wants to know what the "BK" or "BN" is and can't figure it out.

Oh. Yeah, totally didn't know that. Thanks for clarifying, hun. :)

[the phantom]

If we lynch Izzy toDay, and Sally is the BK, I'm dead toNight (unless she already protected herself) since she has nothing to fear from me.
Why would she have nothing to fear? Couldn't you kill her with your hunting power? The Knight can't protect from a Hunt, can she?

But anyway, a look at the lynch Sally plan...

It assumes that Kath didn't dream of her. That's my biggest hump to get over. Once past that it looks fine, seeing as you say she's evil. And if she's an extra Hunter she can just kill someone. But you know... hmm... it is a lot to take on faith that we have an extra Hunter. I mean, why the heck would we?

You're right about her seeming to pave the way for a Queen reveal. As a matter of fact, after Brin pegged her as a Seer dream (meaning that the Weres will kill her tonight) and Sally did that eye-pop thing, personally I thought that Sally was indeed the Queen and had just realized that by being the dream she was as good as dead tonight. Surely if she was the Hunter she would prefer that she die as opposed to another innocent, for she could hunt someone as she died. Why have a negative reaction to it?

That does make her look a bit shady.

[satansaloser2005]

Why would she have nothing to fear? Couldn't you kill her with your hunting power? The Knight can't protect from a Hunt, can she?

But anyway, a look at the lynch Sally plan...

It assumes that Kath didn't dream of her. That's my biggest hump to get over. Once past that it looks fine, seeing as you say she's evil. And if she's an extra Hunter she can just kill someone. But you know... hmm... it is a lot to take on faith that we have an extra Hunter. I mean, why the heck would we?

You're right about her seeming to pave the way for a Queen reveal. As a matter of fact, after Brin pegged her as a Seer dream (meaning that the Weres will kill her tonight) and Sally did that eye-pop thing, personally I thought that Sally was indeed the Queen and had just realized that by being the dream she was as good as dead tonight. Surely if she was the Hunter she would prefer that she die as opposed to another innocent, for she could hunt someone as she died. Why have a negative reaction to it?

That does make her look a bit shady.

The Knight can protect themself once the whole game, if I'm not mistaken.


I'm not afraid of dying. I'm afraid of dying toDay given recent events. And I eye-popped for reasons I can't say, sorry. Well, I could, but it's redundant now anyway so I won't bother wasting your time.

YesterDay I wanted to attract attention, but not get lynched. Why? I hadn't gotten a pick yet. I'm sure Phantom had guessed that already, and my apologies for being so short with you. I'm always a very frustrated gifted.

I'll tell you who I'm hunting if I'm lynched, and if Izzy is not lynched I will tell you who I plan to set my pick to toNight. (I'm not currently hunting Izzy, and a good thing too since Rikae's on her, but her death will tell me what I need to know for toNight and forward)

An interesting thought occured to me. Since Shasta created another white rook, maybe he created another black one as well? Crap, I hope not.


Really going now. I need some lovely alone time with Les Mis and a bottle of juice and a pile of clothes that need folding.

[Mnemosyne]

So, if not sally, whom did Kath dream Night Three?

[satansaloser2005]

So, if not sally, whom did Kath dream Night Three?

She dreamt me Night Three. Thus I know everything that Kath knew up until her death. Unfortunately she was unable to PM me before she was slaughtered, so I don't know the identity of her Night Four dream, only who she dreamt of.

[the phantom]

So, if not sally, whom did Kath dream Night Three?
Probably me again. She just can't get me out of her mind.

[satansaloser2005]

Probably me again. She just can't get me out of her mind.



Well, at my suggestion....


We both got into our PJs and got on IM, did our nails, and talked about you. :Merisu:

[Mnemosyne]

Probably me again. She just can't get me out of her mind.

Kath, after game this is ON.

...Unless it's unrequited love. Then you're allowed to pine as much as you wish.

[satansaloser2005]

Kath, after game this is ON.

...Unless it's unrequited love. Then you're allowed to pine as much as you wish.

:eek: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doFKkuzoawM)

[the phantom]

Quick question for Rikae-

So Izzy is the only one you know?

Why couldn't the other baddies be Fea or Dury or Mnem or Brin? Why must we lynch Sally?

Pshhhh... Actually I'm tired of this. All of this reveal stuff was done in a rather tripping way. Not smooth. No proofs presented. A reveal is a hugely important thing. Why not do it like "I am this. This proves it. I did this on this Night. I did it because of this. I recommend doing this. Etc." Lay down the law, you know. Good Wizard TP style, or Boro Seer style. Instead the reveals and conversations surrounding them resulted in mass confusion. I'm still not sure I understand precisely where Sally and Rikae stand on everything. And why wouldn't they bare their souls at this point?

*grumbles*

I almost want to start a lynching effort against someone with nothing to do with any of this nonsense just to protest.

But I suppose that wouldn't help anything in the long run. Whatever. Now I'm rather looking forward to dying tonight. But if Sally and Rikae are both still alive then they'll probably bump off those two and leave me be. I'd almost be willing to lynch one of them just so I can be done tonight. :rolleyes:

[Isabellkya]

Why would Shasta create a second White Rook - which was completely and utterly secret?

Why say all of the possible roles in the game, but leave one out - and not even hint about it?

I fail to see it happening. When he already left the role specifics of the White Queen out.


X'd with phantom

[Rikae]

Please, no more downer couples. I don't want anyone stealing my thunder on my wedding day. [/bridezilla] ;)

Sally is almost convincing me, which is an impressive feat, considering there is no second hunter in this game!

I'm on Izzy, indeed. Tonight I will hunt her, if she's left alive, unless I decide to hunt somebody else, or be really bold and dream instead... you never know which way I'll go. :cool:

If Sally is what she says (and I have to admit, the "I don't lie about my role" thing is very unsporting if she isn't), there are a cobbler, a black rook, and a werebear among these people:

Durelin
Feanor of the Peredhil
Brinniel
Mnemosyne

Those are actually fairly good odds.

EDIT: X'd with Phantom and Izzy

[the phantom]

Wow. First game on the site and Mnem is already wishing to fight someone. :eek:

Should we set up a cage and place bets?

Winner gets Phantom?

[Isabellkya]

Technically, he never said there was only one of each. But having doubles of something; other than an ordo - it seems like it would put things off balance.


X'd with Rikae and phantom