Rings of Power talk!

[jallanite]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

What you offer is a mistake in editing in unpublished material causing an immense plot hole which obviously was not in the published story. Considering Saruman was making his own rings, he certainly would have taken Narya from Gandalf when he had him completely under his power - had he known a Ring of Power was there. Particularly so if, as the later, unpublished material states he had "ill-will" due to the ring. Saruman gaining Narya at Orthanc could very well spell the doom of the West.

Saruman may still have had hope that Gandalf would see reason and join with him. In the chapter “The Council of Elrond″, Elrond said:

But they [the three Elvish Rings] were not made as weapons of war or conquest: that is not their power. Those who made them did not desire strength or domination or hoarded wealth, but understanding, making, and healing, to preserve all things unstained.

So I see no problem in reconciling Saruman letting Gandalf keep Narya, for the time, with his knowledge that Gandalf possessed it. I see an equally great problem with Saruman not putting Gandalf to death immediately once Saruman had got hold of Gandalf. What was Saruman preserving Gandalf for? Did Saruman perhaps prevision that if Gandalf died, Manwë would send him back? Was Saruman genuine in his hope that Gandalf would ṗerhaps eventually reveal all that he knew of the Ring to Saruman? If as, then better do no more than imprison Gandalf without worrying about Narya.

It is the two quotations that you have presented that state clearly that the secret of who possessed the Three Rings was only known to their possessors which shows conclusively that the quotation I presented from Unfinished Tales does not fit with other material published in Tolkien’s lifetime.

But this is neither here nor there as, per usual, you missed the point I was trying to make entirely.

The quotations you presented are not “neither here nor there” but the proof that you are correct.

Of course I did not accept the point you were trying to make because I had forgotten those clear statements.