Tol-in-Gaurhoth L: Battle of the Fandoms

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

I don't suppose it would, but then I was pondering some suggestions that another wolf had voted for CoD and what implications it might have. For the record, I don't think a wolf would vote for another wolf, because I've been a wolf before and it doesn't work like that.

It does these days, let me tell you!

However, while wolf-on-wolf voting is now quite the thing, I think the circumstances make it less likely than usual this time. If any of the four is a wolf, it's mostly probably a.) McCaber (casts the first vote on CaptainofDespair, when several other people had already been voted– may have thought it a safe way of distancing himself from his fellow) or b.) Mithalwen (may have thought CoD was doomed anyway).

Anyway, you still haven't explained how wolves who had already voted could save their fellow at the deadline.

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Again, cause I've been a wolf before. If I was one again I know I'd eat me up tonight.

And I've been a wolf before, and I wouldn't. If all wolves were that predictable, this game would be a lot easier.

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

She was quiet yesterday, didn't interact with anyone, therefore was an easy kill for them to make without leaving tracks..

Yes, but you were talking about her in the context of "taking a punt on someone quiet".

[Macalaure]

A bunch of comments while reading along:

Originally Posted by Mith

Kath is a very good player who hadn't been around much. She also wasn't an obvious choice for ranger protection.

I don't agree with the latter part. The chances for a ranger to be successful are never slimmer than in Night 2. (edit for clarity: Mith's claim is correct of course, but I doubt it had a serious part in the wolves' decision)

Originally Posted by Brinn

Ah yes, the ranger...I almost forgot. Perhaps that's why the wolves didn't kill those who I thought would be more obvious choices. Good point.

It surprises me how quickly Brinn went for that latter part. It was something maybe worth remarking, but it was not an especially good point, I think.

I originally didn't think Kath was killed by Brinn. What Nogrod said in #166 is pretty much what my first impression of Brinn's #154 was, too, so I'll just refer to it here.

I can't claim that Brinn's#189 has convinced me any more. A positive thing to remark is, however, that at she doesn't try to dodge Nogrod's accusations or to divert from them.


Gwath's long post about Nogrod looks sincere to me, so I suspect him less right now. I more and more get the impression of two ordos bashing it out until both are lynched.

Originally Posted by Mith

I fully admit I am not the worlds greatest success story as a wolf cf my reply to Boro today but I am not spo rubbish that I would have killed a packmate when there was a three way tie nearly up to the wire and a possibility of a late pact.

Actually, looking at the way everybody seems to take my innocence nearly for granted today, it wouldn't have been such a bad tactic for a Mac- or Mithwolf. A few have pointed out the unlikeliness of a wolf-on-wolf thing and I keep on not agreeing with it. Out of the mouth (or from the fingertips) of a CoD-voter, it doesn't sound good.

I don't feel good about the Fea/Shasta squabble, but I can't make my mind up about which one looks wolvish or whether it's just another ordo-ordo thing.

Originally Posted by Boro

In my post 150 I specifically told Brin to check out my theory that she's a wolf, thought Kath was the seer who dreamed of her, and thus killed her;

This I don't understand. You said, in the same post, that you "genuinely" think Brinn is innocent. Why were you interested in bringing up a wolf-theory about someone you think innocent, even urging the one to defend herself against it? And now you're criticising the ones who didn't think her defense was a good one.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

It does these days, let me tell you!

However, while wolf-on-wolf voting is now quite the thing, I think the circumstances make it less likely than usual this time. If any of the four is a wolf, it's mostly probably a.) McCaber (casts the first vote on CaptainofDespair, when several other people had already been voted– may have thought it a safe way of distancing himself from his fellow) or b.) Mithalwen (may have thought CoD was doomed anyway).

Both of those scenarios are disturbingly plausible if there was a wolf-on-wolf vote. McCaber is almost silent in the game and voted early on, while that's the kind of thing Mithalwen would do.

Anyway, you still haven't explained how wolves who had already voted could save their fellow at the deadline.

By retracting and voting Boro. He'd have been a dead man for sure. Which suggests to me that none of that foursome - or at least those who weren't around at deadline time - are wolves. Not Mithalwen then. Though didn't she say something odd to Boro around that time about whether he actually wanted to be lynched?

And I've been a wolf before, and I wouldn't. If all wolves were that predictable, this game would be a lot easier.

True, but then being predictable is a strategy if everyone expects you to be predictable and instead looks up the tricksy strategies

How long until deadline today then? I make it about 3 hours?

I'm thinking of voting for Nilp. Not been around and is very quiet and nobody has mentioned him. What's being hidden?

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Lal

I'm thinking of voting for Nilp. Not been around and is very quiet and nobody has mentioned him. What's being hidden?

I would discourage that. The chances of being successful with lynching such a quiet one twice in a row are very small.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

By retracting and voting Boro. He'd have been a dead man for sure.

No retractable votes. (See the admin thread.)

EDIT: X'd with Boro and Mac.

[Rikae]

Lal might be thinking of the time she was a wolf with me, and I defended her quite vehemently right up until the deadline. However, I did that because a wolf would not normally be expected to!

Right now, my strongest feeling is that I don't like the way Brinn handles McCaber - and, furthermore, I don't like the way McCaber posts. I get the distinct impression she is trying to cover her bases where he's concerned (don't look like you're ignoring the possibility he's a wolf, but don't make it look like he actually is, either), while he is just poking his head in at the fringes of things, saying nothing that will elicit a response, and hoping no one notices him. Because Brinn is the more vocal of the two, I'm leaning toward voting for McCaber.

Two people that look more or less innocent to me right now are Gwath and Lal. Even though both have said things that didn't make much sense, they have been... innocently nonsensical... if that makes any sense. Everyone else, I haven't decided about. (Is Nilp on the verge of being modfired, or what?)

EDIT: X'd with Nerwen, and assorted Boros and Lals.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Right now, my strongest feeling is that I don't like the way Brinn handles McCaber - and, furthermore, I don't like the way McCaber posts.

I'm still fishy about McCaber. After what Nerwen said, and now after what you've just said, I have to admit he's looking shady. Plus he's so quiet it's eerie. However rather than drawing in Brinniel, I think it might implicate Mithalwen as Wolf 3, who I've felt more comfortable about than normal.

[Isabellkya]

Lalwende could be the Cobbler, and is trying to get the Ranger to protect her (in an odd way), so the wolves have a free kill tonight.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Boro

Hmm...Lal might be creeping back up in my suspicions too. She's been saying some really strange stuff today (constantly saying she's going to be wolf-meat tonight?) Lal is an experienced wolf and I can't pin her behaviour as a wolf. She is making her activity known today, drawing attention to herself, so she could be the cobbler, just out to confuse us and try to turn the discussion away from the people she thinks are wolves.

I don't like this one at all. The first part couldn't possibly be more generic ("strange stuff"). Then, as far as I'm aware, Lal is not an experienced wolf (third game, one time wolf, or do I mix things up?). This is a very old way of making someone look bad: just say that s/he is an experienced/dangerous wolf. It doesn't even need a context. Of course, you take it back right away and talk about cobblers and confusions.

I do think Rikae's and Nerwen's points against Lal have merit. This, however, along with the following vote, looks like an attempt to start a bandwaggon.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I don't like this one at all. The first part couldn't possibly be more generic ("strange stuff"). Then, as far as I'm aware, Lal is not an experienced wolf (third game, one time wolf, or do I mix things up?). This is a very old way of making someone look bad: just say that s/he is an experienced/dangerous wolf. It doesn't even need a context. Of course, you take it back right away and talk about cobblers and confusions.

I do think Rikae's and Nerwen's points against Lal have merit. This, however, along with the following vote, looks like an attempt to start a bandwaggon.

I've been a wolf just the once!

Actually, Boro could be the cobbler, spying an ideal opportunity to get my lynched following my points about how wolves pick out victims from the early nominations and how, therefore, my card are marked. And he does make the point that cobblers try and act in a confusing way - which he does!

And on that note, Isabellkya could also be one.

Where are the lurkers and shirkers anyway? Don't think you're getting away with it by hiding!

[Boromir88]

Alright, so I'm gonna have to vote here...

In all seriousness though, I'd like to apologize to Boromir (and I absolutely hate having to apologize, it gives me indigestion, seriously!)~Shasta

On that note, yay for his death (and an apology Boro; of the people I was considering voting, you kept jumping out at me.)~sally

Two people apologizing they voted for me. Now, I'm only waiting on you Fea.

Alright, Shasta said yesterday if we were both still alive today he would come back and explain in more detail.

So I went back and looked (my Time-Turner finally came! Yay!), and in regards to my vote for Boro yesterday... what I thought was suspicious yesterday is in actuality more fluff. I thought I saw an indirect attack on both Rikae and Fea, but it doesn't look so much like that now.

...Which leads me to believe that it was Boro's latent phantomic tendencies ("hijacking" a discussion? Really?) that caused me to vote him.

Believe it or not, Fea, I actually buy this explanation. I have a tendancy to draw attention on Day 1 (that's partly my intention), and I can see why someone would think my comment about "hijacking the thread," was weird, thus that's as good of a reason as any on Day 1.

The only thing I don't quite get is why wait until today to explain it? You were under time constraints, but you were around at the end, thus could have explained yourself then. Did you want to see the outcome yesterday before giving me an explanation?

sally's apology is a little odder, because I don't get it. If you were trying to apologize for being wrong about CoD, fine, but why to me? I mean I appreciate it, but now I'm wondering who's doing the flattering here. If you were innocent and truly thought I was guilty, I wouldn't expect an apology unless I ended up lynched and proven innocent.

I'm between Gwath, Nogrod, and sally. I don't know if the stuff between Gwath and Nogrod are two innocents running in circles around eachother, or if one's an aggressive wolf. Sally for the reasons I've stated, but with her computer problems today I don't know if I want to vote for her without hearing some more.

edit: crossed with Mac oops and also Lal

[Boromir88]

Hmm...Lal might be creeping back up in my suspicions too. She's been saying some really strange stuff today (constantly saying she's going to be wolf-meat tonight?) Lal is an experienced wolf and I can't pin her behaviour as a wolf. She is making her activity known today, drawing attention to herself, so she could be the cobbler, just out to confuse us and try to turn the discussion away from the people she thinks are wolves.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Mac

I would discourage that. The chances of being successful with lynching such a quiet one twice in a row are very small.

I'll take more convincing than that. If I don't see anything else tasty I might stick to it.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

No retractable votes. (See the admin thread.)

Fair dos!

Which then makes me wonder about those who did not vote....

Originally Posted by Boro

Hmm...Lal might be creeping back up in my suspicions too. She's been saying some really strange stuff today (constantly saying she's going to be wolf-meat tonight?)

Well I am, I'm gonna be a Wolf Big Mac.

She is making her activity known today, drawing attention to herself

Just playin'. It beats doing the housework which is what I ought to be doing.

[Boromir88]

If I don't see anything else tasty I might stick to it.~Lal

(bold my emphasis)
Is that a Wolfreudian slip?

[Boromir88]

I must be off...and I'm going back to:

++Lalwende

There's something evil behind her intentions today, I don't know if she's feeling the pressure, or what it is, but it doesn't look right.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I must be off...and I'm going back to:

++Lalwende

There's something evil behind her intentions today, I don't know if she's feeling the pressure, or what it is, but it doesn't look right.

You're always convinced I'm evil. I must have 'one of those faces' I suppose

Who is Wolfreud by the way? Sigmund's pet dog?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Two people apologizing they voted for me. Now, I'm only waiting on you Fea.

Don't hold your breath.

I see nothing but off-kilter motives in apologizing in a game where you don't know anything as an ordo. Ordinary villagers don't say "I'm so sorry!" unless they have incontrovertible evidence that they were incredibly wrong. Since a seer has NOT come forward to say that you, Boro, are innocent, then the only way that makes any sense for anybody to apologize to you is if they know your role. Not simply by intuition.

Because I know what I intuitively think you are, but that doesn't mean I'm going to apologize for any attempt I make on your life. 1) it's a game, and it's understood that it's a game. 2) why draw attention to yourself with a conspicuous display of confidence? 3) I'm not going to apologize for voting for you, because I'm highly likely to do it again.

I have to leave for work in a few minutes, and won't be back. That means a vote. And right now I'm tied between Shasta and Boro, for reasons that rationality don't yet support, but which I couldn't forgive myself for not acting on.

Let me shower and I'll vote upon my return...