Werewolf LIII: The Republic

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

It is clear enough that all the people with clear conscience - with the possible exception of the seer - will vote for a representative someone s/he thinks has a good judgement and can bring down a wolf or whom s/he thinks is a wolf that could slip under pressure being forced to make a decision on the lynch (or whom s/he would just like to find out in this game - as to see how s/he performs).

Obviously, only I would be very careful with that - but I am sure everyone realises: by voting anybody as a Representative, you are placing a responsibility on him, which is good, as you get to see how he acts; however, at the same time, you are giving him power - and possibly even over your own life (if we take this from the most self-centered point of view).
However, all this situation and the model of the game is too new for us, I think, that we have yet to explore the nuances and how actually various choices go and work and impact on the game here...

But what will be something like a central issue in this game later on after we get some actual data of people behaving in different ways in different stuations & actually voting - and I'm looking forwards to it as it looks like a challenge indeed - is how we should judge the way the wolves will vote and how they will do it in the end.

...which is exactly this. Indeed, the main device of the game now is exploring these possibilities the system gives us (and it is so exciting! I really like it). So, let's just see how this rolls on...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

however, at the same time, you are giving him power - and possibly even over your own life.

Curiosity killed the cat.. I know.

I wouldn't try that in the endgame but might well consider trying it on the early Days - knowledgeable of the risk involved. But as you said, we will have to see how this plays out.

[Thinlómien]

Wow, mister Nogrodman actually makes a lot of sense.

Originally Posted by Legate

But I think this talk about the numbers is not completely pointless, as it can help us stop and think for ourselves and giving us one more thing to consider when voting: "Okay, I want to vote either X or Y for a Rep, but I see we have already six Representatives who have two votes, and one of them is X. And by voting Y, I am about to bring another Rep there with my vote, but I don't want such a high number of Reps, so I will vote rather for X than for Y." Something like that, I hope you get the point (of course in the example I am leaving out the things about X possibly getting four votes etc, but the example was aimed just on the number of representatives).

Yes, things like that did cross my mind but that really hasn't got that much to do with talking about the number of representatives... Because what you talk about is something that depends on every single player's common sense.

Speaking of these issues, I'd rather have lots of "weak" representatives than just a few people who wield immense power. It would strike me as more democratic and less dangerous.

And lastly, since no one has brought it up yet, it's perfectly possible that innocent people will elect one or more wolves as their representatives and thereby wolves could be trying to seem reasonable and trustworthy just to gather innocent rep votes. Which means I'm not going to vote anyone who seems too sane to be my representative.


edit: xed with Nog, Nog, Kath, Boro, Nog

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Fea, just a general question. Can the filibuster only take place at the end of the lynch-vote by the representatives (as I've thought it is) or is it possible to filibuster even when choosing the representatives?

From what I see on the Admin thread it looks like one can filibuster on both parts of the Day.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Yes, things like that did cross my mind but that really hasn't got that much to do with talking about the number of representatives... Because what you talk about is something that depends on every single player's common sense.

Speaking of these issues, I'd rather have lots of "weak" representatives than just a few people who wield immense power. It would strike me as more democratic and less dangerous.

Why not vote just one person and give it many votes? "...into the first Gallactic Empaijaa!!!"

(Wow. I never thought before how much, when written, this seems like Finnish... )

Though not, of course, that's why I spoke about some 5 or 6 or so representatives looking as an optimal number from my part. Hauevaa, while you are right that it depends on every player's common sense, it is always worth pointing that out to give others food for thought - and then apply their common sense enrichened by the conscious reflection of what has been said on the topic. Isn't that what we do with all things in WW?

EDIT: x-ed with Fea. Okay, so I was right

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Boro and Phantom seem to be nicely buddy-buddy today, don't they?

[Boromir88]

Imagine I vote for a player, and the only reason for me voting him would be because he supports lynching the people I want to.~Legate

I never knew I'd have to spell it out all here...I mean I thought it was kind of already assumed that you choose a representative who you trust.

I doubt anyone is going to be choosing their reps on a whim, or based solely on the fact that their rep wants to lynch the same person. I have high expectations. Someone I trust is innocent, and someone who will repesent me, I expect both. End of story. If you can't live up to that, tough luck.

Which is why I'm confused to why exactly you ruled out the phantom so soon? Explain it to me, was it a joke for some laughs, and a little fun at what you promised earlier? I mean really if we follow your logic for not wanting to choose the phantom right now, you can say that about anyone in this village. I see no reason you should trust anyone right now, but right off the bat you said it aint gonna be the phantom. You didn't exclude anyone else, just the phantom.

By no means am I saying the phantom should be a representative, but the question is why should we immediately exclude anyone? Because of the history? Are you afraid history will repeat itself if you make the same mistakes? Why does what Day we're on make any difference?

This is a clean slate, a brand new ball game. If I was to use such a weak excuse as "history" for not choosing a rep, I could come up with some cockamamy reason for anyone in this village except Ilya.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Boro, you could say history doesn't matter, but look at how much Phantom has already said! History tends to repeat itself, after all.

[the phantom]

I'm slowly catching up on everyone's posts. I'll respond to them a few at a time.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Boro

But sorry in a representative I don't want someone with their own mind, I want someone with my mind.

That is contrary to the entire point of having representatives. If we just vote for people who would vote the same way as us anyway, then all we're doing is having a mass vote, just like always.

And this goes for the next comment as well-

Originally Posted by Legate

I am also unwilling to give votes to certain people as Reps, for now, and among them is Mr. P. for the simple reason that he's too wilful.... We need strong Representatives, who have the intentions of the people in mind, and not just their own.

You say we need a "strong" rep, and yet you don't think that reps who will vote independently and with conviction are a good choice?

That is massive contradiction.

A strong rep will vote the way he feels. A weak rep will hide behind those that elected him.

Nogrod made an excellent point on this matter already-

Originally Posted by Nogrod

The one thing I'm afraid though is that a wolf elected as a representative may hide her/his motives behind the "popular support" - as someone already said that s/he would like to see the rep vote her/his way, not the rep's own way!

That is lovely reasoning Nogrod. A Werewolf could simply change his vote and not appear suspicious for it via following the whims of one of his constituents. "Well, you know, I was gonna vote for so-and-so, but since you did elect me and you're leaning this way I'll go ahead and vote that way."

Of course it would be done less obviously than that, but you get the point surely.

[Boromir88]

Boro, you could say history doesn't matter, but look at how much Phantom has already said! History tends to repeat itself, after all. ~Shasta

History is an excuse for the faint of heart. I'm not afraid to say Mac totally played me for a fool last time, but if he were in this village now, I would not use that a reason for not wanting him as a rep.

Or look at it this way...if history has any bearing on what will happen now, and if the phantom's a wolf, well we're all screwed now anyway. All we can do now is fight against the inevitable defeat.

[Aganzir]

Hello I'm here. Sorry to come so late but a friend of mine begged she coud cook for me and I just didn't have the heart to say no. However, I should write a paper for tomorrow and I am tired and in a rather bad mood so I don't know how much I'm going to post.

I don't care how many representatives we have. I'm going to vote for the one I think will see to my interests the best. Besides the less reps there are, the greater their power, which I don't find a good thing. Also, I don't care if my rep can be around at deadline or not. As for deadline, it is 6am my time and I'm not going to be around that late (nor wake up that early, for that matter). And should anybody vote me for a rep, they would also have to bear in mind that my votes will be cast early.

Originally Posted by THE Ka

*sigh* Aganzir, it looks like we're in a dead heat in the: "Sneaky Scary Idol: Scar or Kaa?" Contest again... Don't worry, I'll vote for you of course.

Haha, yes. So, do we have any chance but to trust in you, just in you? By the way, I bet I would be elected as a rep if I sang Be Prepared.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

And one thing to make it clear. Mr. P. is not getting my vote as a Representative, no way.

Yeah - after all, this is supposed to be a democracy, not theocracy.

I don't care if there are filibusters or not, at least for now.

Okay I really don't have anything to say. I'll try to get my paper at least half done and then concentrate on coming up with opinions on people.