WW: LXXXV - The Lost Philosophers of Maiar

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Care to explain? (Sally too, who seems to be sharing your feelings.)

Option 1: Pitch is being jumpy.
Option 2: Pitch is genuinely curious about being suspected by a couple of people on day 1.

The passive-aggressive phrasing makes me inclined towards option 1.

[Rikae]

Careful, Kath, we only have one retractable vote for the whole game.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I thought I'd be back long before I actually made it back. Pity, that.

Okay, so we have a couple things to look at. Rikae is being... less talkative and more mysterious than usual, but then it's Rikae, so I don't know how much of that is readable. We have Pitch, who pinged my personal radar from the moment he said "havens forfend we do something like the Shasta lynch again!", but that's a Lottie reason so I'm going to need more to go on. And besides that, he's suspected by an awful lot of people so far, considering. From personal experience as a wolf I know that wolves don't need to do much to push a Day 1 bandwagon right into an innocent, but it's something to look at.

Mac and Kitanna both look good to me so far, as does Agan (as far as I can tell they've been the most logical and down to earth so far). No read on Sally, which frankly bothers me a bit.

I'll be back with more.

[Loslote]

I don't really have suspicions at this point. Sally had that one post that caught my eye (in the painful, eye's-gone-now kind of way, not in the oh-that's-so-pretty kind of way), but other than that, not much. I can see where people are coming from about Pitchie, but I don't think I would have noticed it on my own, so I'm hesitant to point fingers at him. Mac's big post of postiness was unnerving, but the one game I played with him (at least, I think that's the only game) I thought the same think about innocent!Mac.

But I do have a lot of people who seem reasonably not-evil right now. Agan looks almost too good (I'm oh so used to suspecting her ). Kit looks really innocent so far - probably the most so - but I haven't played with her much, so I can't really be sure. Skip looks decent, in a not-ringing-any-alarms sort of way. Shasta seems rather innocent in a not-wolvish way.'

[Blind Guardian]

So....hi guys!

So, time ends in one hour thirty minutes or by 10AM tomorrow? Sorry, I am still confused. And I am going by BD clock.

I suspect Ozban cause of this:

Hey, I actually invented a way to lessen wolves chance of murdering one of gifteds, we can lynch one of them ourselves! Has anyone seen Shasta?

How would we murder a gifted when we don't know them (or did I miss something?)? And why do you want Shasta? Maybe 'cause I remember Shasta was a really good wolf one game past...

Also, I am not voting toNight because I am not going to be back on. (Maybe if the DL is at 10AM tomorrow morning I will, maybe)

e;x with everyone since post 43

[Inziladun]

Lots to digest, here. What are you people trying to do? And I can't even have a Guinness to help me make sense of things.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

And as Lommy said the sooner we get a wolf, the better. If the seer dreams of one at an early stage (ie before we've lynched any), she should probably consider if it's worth coming out and getting rid of the double kills.

I believe I'd concur. We've seen recently that the trails of a dead Seer can be rather untrustworthy. They may clearly lead to a wolf, or, as has already been discussed, they can lead innocents quite astray, eh, Shasta and Pitch?
Also, an inventive Ranger can make things difficult for the wolves, even with the Seer revealed.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Never fear, I fully intend to shine the lamp of reason on my fellow prisoners and seek to discriminate fair from foul. But this can only be done if everybody speaks up. As our first Day here has been preternaturally prolonged, we've got lots of time for discussion - let's not waste it with moping about the uselessness of Day One!

I'll probably be accused of latching onto the suspicion on Pitch, but he somewhat bothers me too. This feels a bit forced.

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

To which I'd like to add, No BlindGuardianing either, please. She's been the default D1 lynch in her last two games, I'd be very wroth to see that repeated without very good reasons.

Now, I'd agree with this. She has a history of being lynched very early, and I can think of only one occasion where she was evil. I'd be inclined to at least let her make it through Day 1.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If anyone has a dream (either dark or light, makes no difference to me) that needs interpretting, speak up. Dreams can reveal some of the darkest secrets and inner-most secrets.

I had a dream I was eating Frosted Mini Wheats, and when I woke up my pillow was gone.

Originally Posted by Loslote

On to more game-related stuff - knee jerk reaction to the posts so far gives me a good feeling about Boro and Pitchie and a not-quite-as-good feeling about Sally. The other people I didn't get much of an impression from. (Normal disclaimer follows; I do not claim that this is exactly right; I do not want everyone voting Sally in a bandwagon of Shastanic porportions the moment I leave; I hold no responsibility if this happens. )

Why would you assume people would jump on your vague suspicion, and feel the need to qualify your feelings?

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

On the other hand, I see our Mod has seen fit to grant the cobbler a means to send secret messages to the wolves, so I don't know how much 'open' hinting we're going to see on the thread. Still worth keeping an eye open, to be sure.

Well, the Cobbler can send suggestions to the wolves regarding their kill, and over time they'll be able to narrow down the Cobbler that way. That's pretty time consuming, though, and the Cobbler doesn't want to be killed by them, so I'd think some hints would be likely.

Originally Posted by skip spence

Happy New Vailan Year to all of you!

Should Aulë-quaintance be forgot....

Originally Posted by Loslote

Also, Cailín's vote isn't all that great, but it doesn't look particularly wolfy to me. I don't really see a wolf voting that way. I've never played with her, though, so I don't know what a Wolín looks like.

Could be a Cobbler-signal. Early, ill reasoned votes can well serve that purpose. Then again, she seems to be rather busy IRL.

Originally Posted by Nessa Telrunya

The time is now... Whatever time it currently is!

Whew, there's a nice little intro. And hopefully, as town crier, I can shed light on the situation in the same manner as my brother tradesmen. Day1 is always confusing, so I suppose I'll do some statistics.

We have 19 villagers now,a cobbler, and four wolves. That means our percentage of catching a wolf is about 16%, and their percentage of a gifted toNight would be about 12, with a 4% chance of also catching their own cobbler.

So now we are at 19-5, if we count the cobbler with the wolves. If we kill a villager, it is 18-5, and 19-4 if we kill the cobbler or a wolf. But if we kill a wolf, after toNight's kills we'll be at 18-4 toMorrow, instead of 17-4. If we kill a villager, we'll be at 16-5 toMorrow. No good there.

Whew, I love math.

Thanks for the effort, but is odds-making necessary at this point? Just sayin'. Sorry, Sally. I forgot you had a ™ on that.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So this Day1 lasts for 36 hours.

It began on 10AM GMT/UTC (3AM EST)

and will end on 10PM GMT/UTC (3PM EST) tomorrow.

Herr Mod, shouldn't the EST time be 5PM? I think they're GMT-5.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Blind Guardian

How would we murder a gifted when we don't know them (or did I miss something?)? And why do you want Shasta? Maybe 'cause I remember Shasta was a really good wolf one game past...

I believe that was a banter post. And he mentioned Shasta becase the last game he played in, we lynched Shasta-seer Day 1.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Why would you assume people would jump on your vague suspicion, and feel the need to qualify your feelings?

It's happened before - I threw out vague suspicion of Shasta Day 1, and he was lynched near-unanimously. I assumed no one would jump on it then, and they did, so now I'm assuming they will and, hopefully, that'll mean that they won't.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Loslote

It's happened before - I threw out vague suspicion of Shasta Day 1, and he was lynched near-unanimously. I assumed no one would jump on it then, and they did, so now I'm assuming they will and, hopefully, that'll mean that they won't.

Well, baddies can latch onto any old bandwagon. What makes Lottie's so inviting?

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Well, baddies can latch onto any old bandwagon. What makes Lottie's so inviting?

It might be the complimentary rainbows and good interior lighting. I'll run a few surveys and get back to you on that.

EDIT: xed with the Mod-Dude

[Macalaure]

About all those cobbler-wolf hint... quest... thing.

In my experience, it's very unusual for wolves to hint to a suspected cobbler in a normal game, unless it's late in the game and every vote counts. In this game, the cobbler can communicate with the wolves to an extent - their connection is better than usual - and now they are suddenly certainly going to throw around hints? Possible, yes, since the temptation to use the cobbler strategically is there, but we have nearly zero chance to detect any hints now. Once a baddie is dead, we will certainly see clearer, but looking out now and possibly basing suspicions and cases on it, is almost certainly going to backfire.

[Nessa Telrunya]

I'm not really so sure about the whole Pitchwife suspicion I'm seeing here. With unexplained Day1 suspicion, when nearly anything would suffice, it's perfectly reasonable for him to want some answers. So where does that put Rikae? She seems to know something we don't.

[Ozban]

Originally Posted by Loslote

I believe that was a banter post. And he mentioned Shasta becase the last game he played in, we lynched Shasta-seer Day 1.

Exactly, I witnessed lynching Shasta-seer on day1 during my first game. It's quite memorable, not to mention how "thrilling" the game was after that.

I am concerned about Inzil, he's unreadable to me.

Boro amazes me, what a dream-teller.

One thing I can be sure of, I'm not voting Legate, I'm not willing to risk same banwagon I launched last time.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I feel, though he's said a lot trying to look helpful, but hasn't really helped anything at all. Of course he still has 10ish hours to come back, but I don't. So going on what I have to work with now Pitch looks the most suspicious to me.

I see more people as "unhelpful" as Pitch. Satan, Nessa I'd say. Way I see it He's just being himself.

I shall probably vote some low-profiler. There's hardly anything solid to latch onto.

Later...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Herr Mod, shouldn't the EST time be 5PM? I think they're GMT-5.

Achh... you're right... I was thinking it 7 hours from my time (which is correct).

Sorry. I'l correct my earlier "correction" concerning the EST.

The deadline is 10PM GMT/UTC - aka. 5PM EST.


Also to Blind Guardian: 19½ hours left of the day...

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Should Aulë-quaintance be forgot....

...and Nessa brought to mind;

Inziladun gets free pass for today for making me laugh.

My major impression of the first part of today has been that no-one wants to stand out. Although Ozban looks as though he's a potential nutter. I'll give him a pass too.

Any one of you could be a wolf. Tomorrow will be more interesting. Be back to vote later, though also not for Cailin as that would be an awkward way to say hello after two months.

Ok, I at least have a mini-list of people not to vote for!

[Kitanna]

I meant to post again, but when I sat down to do so I had nothing new to say. But I have to go to work and I'll be there until the DL. Which means it's voe time.

++Pitch

I feel, though he's said a lot trying to look helpful, but hasn't really helped anything at all. Of course he still has 10ish hours to come back, but I don't. So going on what I have to work with now Pitch looks the most suspicious to me.

I don't have time to elaborate or dissect anyone else. Sorry.

[Nessa Telrunya]

I'll only be back briefly before the deadline, because I've got school slammed right into the middle. So hopefully my absence won't be misinterpreted, and there will be enough to read for a good vote.

[Boromir88]

So far those who've made some sort of initial impression as I've gone along and read...

Agan is being Agan. I thought since she has given me loads of insight into her wolvish mind (as I have given my wolvish insight to her before) maybe I'd be able to figure her intentions better. So far, this is to no avail, but if she had not thrown a random suspicion towards Lommy, and proceeded to make elaborate posts it would be a major shock. Doubt I'll ever be able to tell when Agan's what role, but as it is, she's popped into my head and thus will want to keep her around more.

Rikae for that "Mackie-pie," had me busting out laughing. I think we can solve the mystery of Rikae's role by simply asking her. Rikae-wolf?

Then I come to Mac, who I would be very very frightened of meeting again if I started calling Macki-pie, so I'm going to stick to Mac. However, can you define for me the significance of going into the drawer as opposed to up on the mantelpiece? A drawer suggests you are tucking these people away and leaving us there (what else are drawers good for, other than shoving in papers and folders when you're trying to quick clean up a room?).

Kath has made an appearance, she's really getting the hang of this whole remembering to appear Day 1, and as far as I know was not reminded day has started. (Makes me start thinking I should work on the "trying not to be the obsessive EVERYONE LOOK AT ME WEEEEE!" thing I said I would be working on. )

Pitch is an early name of who is suspicious being thrown around, I'm not seeing where the jumpiness is coming from? Looked like a random thing thrown out by Rikae and this prompts Pitch to ask for reasons. Suddenly this makes him jumpy?

Then Kitanna, Lottie, and Cailin all for mentioning me in some manner. When I revert to scanning mode, I scroll through pages to see where my name appears. So the easiest way to make an early impression/getting me to think about someone is to throw in a Boro somewhere. Doesn't have to make sense, could be like "I was thinking about wolves-strategy and...Boro looks sharp, and the wolves are going to try...wow I really like Boro's sweater-vest," and 90% chance I take notice.

Everyone else has not made an impression on me, or maybe you did and I'd already forgotten thinking about how studious and professional I'm looking at the moment.

Edit: Crossed with Lottie and Shasta

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Option 1: Pitch is being jumpy.
Option 2: Pitch is genuinely curious about being suspected by a couple of people on day 1.

Pitch's reaction seemed more like option two. It wasn't all that jumpy, just perhaps mild annoyed curiosity. I think if we're to look at Pitch, let's look at his posts prior to asking Rikae and Sally to explain. To me he seems to be speaking a lot without saying anything. Like "here I am, being helpful, but I'm really being sneaky by making noise." I believe Lottie called him "polite" (if it was infact Lottie). I don't like this polite game, if that's the best way to put it.

I'm really interested in Rikae and Sally. They've jumped out to me like Pitch has. I'd like to see something substantial from Rikae before making further comment. But as far as Sally goes, there's something about her playing. I can't pinpoint what it is that makes me uneasy. Maybe it's her silence, which has been stated as a RL issue. I best ponder on this. I hope there's more activity before I go to bed because when I wake up I have time to skim and vote.

I'll defiantly post once more before bed and then my vote post.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Boro

Looked like a random thing thrown out by Rikae and this prompts Pitch to ask for reasons. Suddenly this makes him jumpy?

I only started to pay attention to the post when Rikae quoted it. Alone, I think it looked somewhat jumpy in the sense that it seemed very carefully phrased.

I find Boro deeply amusing.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Maybe it's her silence, which has been stated as a RL issue.

A silent sally is never up to anything good.

Originally Posted by BG

How would we murder a gifted when we don't know them (or did I miss something?)?

We wait for them to reveal and then lynch them.

Originally Posted by Inzil

And I can't even have a Guinness to help me make sense of things.

Is this because you're at work?

Originally Posted by Mac

looking out now and possibly basing suspicions and cases on it, is almost certainly going to backfire.

You're twisting my words. I never said I'd base suspicions and cases on it, what I mean is that we should make it as difficult for them as possible. They are free to do whatever they wish if we sit back and think "la la la they're not going to hint anyway!" Keep an eye out for things that seem strange.

Originally Posted by Inzil

hinting on the part of the wolves is rather risky this early.

No it isn't. They have more information than we do.

I am aware I might be giving the baddies ideas. But if they haven't actually thought of this themselves before this, I dare guess they shouldn't be too difficult to catch.

Originally Posted by Boro

gifteds walk the tight rope of sending cobbler hints so the wolves don't kill them, but not looking too cobblerish where they wind up getting lynched

There are also ordos who try to help the gifteds and give trouble to the baddies by looking cobblerish.

Originally Posted by Mac

You're the first one to mention cobblers and wolves sending messages. The first point in your first post. And if you look closer at the actual statement, it doesn't even really make sense. I have you down as cobbler until I find someone better.

And? What's bad about that? If I have a point to make, why wait till post three? And what do you mean it doesn't make sense?

I don't like Mac.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Legate

And if she were a Wolf/Cobbler signaling to the Cobbler/Wolves, she would have actually given a more direct hint, I believe.

She couldn't be more obvious and she didn't have to be. The more direct hint won't come in bright daylight. She only needs to make sure the wolves won't misunderstand.

[elronds_daughter]

Right, well, I had been content to sit and watch everyone else debate and glean what I could (mostly because I'm no good at thinking strategically at all), but I should probably say a brief piece before DL.

Mac and Boro have amused me greatly. In an unrelated item, they also make the most sense to me. I can't pinpoint why, but there doesn't seem anything particularly wolfish about them.

I agree with Legate's point about Inzil not coming across as suspiciously as last time.

So. Not voting any of those four. Yet.

Pitch seems shady, for reasons others have mentioned. If it was just "Hey, wait, why me?", then I wouldn't be so worried, but it's been "Hey, wait, why me? Also, here's a lot of words to make me seem like I'm contributing."

Agan doesn't look too bad to me, maybe a little shifty, but I'll have to go back and read through things again. I'll do the same with Lottie, since I'm not entirely sure where Legate's vote came from...

Right, that's it from me for now. I'll be back briefly before DL to vote, but likely not much more; I have to do rather a lot of driving today.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I meant to post again, but when I sat down to do so I had nothing new to say. But I have to go to work and I'll be there until the DL. Which means it's voe time.

++Pitch

I feel, though he's said a lot trying to look helpful, but hasn't really helped anything at all. Of course he still has 10ish hours to come back, but I don't. So going on what I have to work with now Pitch looks the most suspicious to me.

I don't have time to elaborate or dissect anyone else. Sorry.

Pitch, eh? I'm not totally comfortable with him meself, and Kit's earlier comments on Pitch are fairly consistent, but this somehow feels like an easy vote.

Originally Posted by Ozban

I see more people as "unhelpful" as Pitch. Satan, Nessa I'd say. Way I see it He's just being himself.

Satan? Always unhelpful. *nods gravely*
Round here we call that wily girl "Sally".

[A Little Green]

Alors, my friends, I am here at last. I was relieved when I found only two pages waiting for me (instead of, like, five or six, given the length of the Day and the number of villagers).

Originally Posted by Agan

You can blame me for that because it was originally my suggestion. I semi-regret it now, just like I regret opposing Lommy who said the ranger should get two saves as long as the wolves get two kills (this took place somewhere else than the admin thread).
However I'm pretty sure we are going to see hinting. I've done it before and the village didn't pay any attention to me, and at least I intend not to be so careless. It's an entirely different matter how easy it is to spot, but however careful they are, in the long run we should be able to see connections.

This passage looks fishy to me. What's the function of the first paragraph, other than underlining her own innocence? The second is screaming "Hello wolves I'm hinting to you!"

Originally Posted by Agan

I have nothing against voting for a quiet player today if I don't have a better idea, just because I dislike both quiet wolves, gifteds and ordos.

Originally Posted by Agan, later on in the same post

(one of my favourite wolf strategies is to give the villagers a false sense of security by being strongly yet discreetly of the opinion we can check out yet another quiet/enigmatic person, and another, and another, until it's too late)

Any comments?

Then about the whole Pitch affair. I think he looks more or less like he always does. But then, Nessa's defence of him looks pretty odd too:

Originally Posted by Nessa

I'm not really so sure about the whole Pitchwife suspicion I'm seeing here. With unexplained Day1 suspicion, when nearly anything would suffice, it's perfectly reasonable for him to want some answers. So where does that put Rikae? She seems to know something we don't.

Originally Posted by Rikae

But actually, I'm becoming relatively more OK with Pitchie and less so with Inzil and Lottie at the moment. It's all in the reactions...

This makes me feel slightly better about Rikae. A wolf might not have wanted to back away from such a promising suspicion, unless she thought her work was already done and wanted to wash her hands, or unless the two are fellows. Gah.

I might have to resort to making a list at some point, the village is so huge that I'm having trouble remembering who are playing and what they have said.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

This passage looks fishy to me. What's the function of the first paragraph, other than underlining her own innocence? The second is screaming "Hello wolves I'm hinting to you!"

When I wrote it, my main feeling was annoyance over not being a baddie because this is exactly the kind of game I'd love to be one in. I was aware of my irritation, but not of the fact that I was underlining my innocence until you mentioned it.

And hello wolves I'm hinting to you!

Any comments?

Yes. It's only on the later stages that we can't really afford to lynch the quiet/not contributing players.

Zut alors with you, poisson, I had missed playing with you too. <3

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm still liking Mac, but I think he might be making altogether too big a deal about Agan's post. It makes sense to me (but that might just be because I was just a wolf with her and know how she thinks ).

On the other hand, Legate I think I'm good with because of his last post. There were several things about Lottie I wasn't really liking, but was hard-pressed to actually put those things into words. Legate managed quite nicely. When does Lottie "not really have suspicions"? Lottie always suspects someone. It bothers me that she apparently doesn't right now.

As of right now I'll probably be voting for Lottie, but I'll be around, off and on, until deadline.

[satansaloser2005]

A silent Sally is never up to anything good? More like never up to anyrthing?

No one is seriously believing Agan, are they? I'd mentioned before the game even started that I have no proper webs, yet she's attacking me for being quiet. Quite ridiculous.


I've got some free time so I'll do my best to make a "proper" post while I have time. It may a bit though, so thanks in advance for being patient.

Edit: x'd since Agan-ish

[Rikae]

I'll clarify a bit. Pitch still makes me uneasy in his own right, but the willingness of others to jump on what looked like a Pitch-wagon in the making tends to put him in a more innocent light.

It is true that Inzil and Lottie have a tendency to always look guilty to me.

Agan clearly would have realized her behavior would look cobblerish and must be doing it deliberately, which tells us nothing. She could do that with absolutely any role.

Wilwa's seeming desire to admonish the village (yes, based on something I said, but I didn't say much) and wash her hands of the Pitch-wagon both strike me as evil attempts at being involved and positioning oneself in an innocentish way without actually having to go out on a limb.

[Valier]

sorry for my quietness....I've got a little grumpy maia to deal with I should be around till DL and I am so glad there is only 2 pages to catch up on. I'm going to go back and have a read...I promised myself after not playing ww for awhile I will do everything I can to help this village rid itself of these baddies...so lets go have a look.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'll clarify a bit. Pitch still makes me uneasy in his own right, but the willingness of others to jump on what looked like a Pitch-wagon in the making tends to put him in a more innocent light.

....

Wilwa's seeming desire to admonish the village (yes, based on something I said, but I didn't say much) and wash her hands of the Pitch-wagon both strike me as evil attempts at being involved and positioning oneself in an innocentish way without actually having to go out on a limb.

So you feel he looks innocent because of the wagon, and I look bad for agreeing with you? And I feel telling the village that some of their discussion has been a waste of time, is kind of putting myself out there.

I need to leave in about 2 hours so I have to start figuring out who I want to vote for. I'll be lingering around for that time, and I'll skim back through some stuff, and try to come up with someone logical.

x'ed with Pitch

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, first of all, why am I the spirit of muffins?!?! I demand an explanation!!!!!!!! >.<


Anyway, to business now, eh? (And with the added good news that I’m typing this post on Abigail, and thus able to bold people’s names. Exciting, I know!)


I’m not immediately suspicious of Lommie’s first post, but I find it interesting that she feels the need to remind us that we need to kill a wolf. Yes, I know, she didn’t really have anything else to say, and she is one to put forth substance (which is good), but her comment about the two kills being “disgusting” seems wrong to me. Just something to file away for later really.


Legate said “prolongate”. This keeps him safe from my Day 1 wrath, as he’s clearly insane.


Surprisingly, I like the lioness’s suggestion that the seer could come out if they dream a wolf straight off. Nerwen, anything you’d like to share? No? Sadness. As much as I hate to say it, I consider the seer an acceptable sacrifice if it means we can rid ourselves of the double kills. However, this also could run us into trouble if we have multiple reveals or what have you, as a wolf could “reveal” and condemn an innocent; we would be down an innocent (and imagine if the wolves managed to fake-dream our real seer! ) and the wolves, while down a wolf upon the next Day, would still have a double kill that Night. Basically, let’s just make sure that we weigh any reveals carefully. I think the wolves wouldn’t just fake reveal for the fun of it, but if their circumstances are dire (i.e. their double kills are threatened) they might take drastic action to maintain their advantage as long as possible. Proceed with caution, etc.


I agree with Pitch as well. Let’s not kill the newbie just because we can. If she’s a wolf, however....


I like Cailin. Let’s not kill her. That would make me cranky.


Boro has a very good point. Rather than saying what we shouldn’t do, why not talk about what we should? Lommie did this, as well as Agan. Pitch is very quick to specifically say not to kill BG, and several have said to be proactive rather than just grumble about Day 1. But how are we to tell which are good or evil, which are just pontificating and which are actually trying to further discussion? It’s impossible at this point, at least for me. ToMorrow we can loot the bodies; toDay let’s do all we can to prevent the bodies from multiplying overNight.


And yes please, no Shasta-wagon on me. No, I’m not a gifted, but I still don’t wanna die, thanks. I’d like to know why Lottie knee-jerked against me however. What’d I do now?


Now I shall briefly share a past experience. In the Library Game of Epic Wolf (and Cobbler) Fail, our beloved helper sent us his name first. I believe the system was the same, though I would love for Boro, Shasta, or Nessa to clarify. (I think Mac may have done it to myself and Nerwen too; my memory is a bit shoddy today, alas.) The point is that the cobbler could easily suggest themself toNight and basically give the wolves their identity. Of course they run the risk of being killed *cough* Boro *cough* but if it works it could pay off big time. And yeah, I know, I’ve probably given the cobbler ideas, but I think a clever cobbler would think of it anyway. I think it could be a serious problem for us if the cobbler is able to identify themself to the wolves, so if we catch the cobbler, I’d be more than happy to kill them (or at the very least have them hunted). Of course wolves must be our first priority but if the wolves know their cobbler and one of them is in danger, they could easily sacrifice their cobbler in order to keep their double kills. I don’t want a cobbler-cide to happen. I want to kill wolves. Thus, let’s make sure that, if the cobbler is killed, the village is the one doing it, and not the wolves, so the baddies can’t use the cobbler’s death to their advantage.


Looking back again, I find it even more confusing why I find Skip suspicious. Strange. It was probably his vote-spreading suggestion, which while good for protecting from unfortunate bandwagons is also good for allowing wolves to influence the vote without tying each other together.


Cailin thinks Pitch is very “polite’ and has answers for everything. The problem is that she seems to consider it a positive quality, whereas I find his preparation and forethought suspicious.


Nessa is....weird. Which is normal for her, I think, but it’s still....weird. I don’t want to lynch her just for giving figures, but I see that too often as a “helpful” wolf tactic, so I’m shaky.

Originally Posted by [b

Oz[/b]]Hey, I actually invented a way to lessen wolves chance of murdering one of gifteds, we can lynch one of them ourselves!* Has anyone seen*Shasta?

I’m glad I forgot to rep you for the last game we played together. Now I can rep you for that. ^_^


Kit is bizarre and (un)reasonable. Her predictions are very interesting.


Skip points out potential flaws in the seer reveal plan, different and yet just as valid ones as I did above. However, his words seem to ring false. He seems more interested in hushing the seer than in using them. Yes, it’s a risk, but if the seer reveals at the right time it could be a major blow to the wolves. I doubt anyone’s suggesting the seer reveal now, but rather when they have information that can be beneficial, both a wolf dream and trails to past dreams which we can trace posthumously. It seems to me like Skip wants to set the seer up on a shelf and not use them. Is he worried about being revealed as a wolf? Is he legitimately concerned for the seer’s welfare? Is he the seer himself? Or is he just arguing for the sake of it? Only time will tell, but for now I can’t feel comfortable with his post.


Aaaaand the most damaging point against Skip is brought up first in Mac’s #35. If the seer only suspects wolves (or, for that matter, only vindicates innocents), they become an instant target for the wolves. I wanted to save my thoughts until I was commenting on Mac’s post, because this is a good catch for Mac (which is to say that he made a good catch, not that he’s normally incapable of such a discovery). He also makes some mention of Agan being suspicious for bladdity blah blah, which I’d love for him to explain if he’s able. I don’t disagree with him, but I don’t see it as an immediate ping either, so I’d love his opinion.


Haha. Kath points out Pitch’s inconsistency as well. Not inconsistent so much as a bit too perfect until you inspect it a bit closer, I suppose, but still. He seems to be trying to hard to point out things that look helpful, yet accuses others for doing the same. He seems too....I don’t even know, as my brain is sort of flopping in all different directions, but I certainly don’t like what he’s been saying (or at least how he’s been saying it). Pitch is far too smooth, and Kath’s notice of his commentary on Oz’s post highlights that. He seems to be the ultimately helpful villager, even poking at those who may be participating less and urging them to be more forceful and less obvious/lazy/blah blah. My brain is getting away from me, but basically he’s highly disconcerting and plastic.


Agan’s #40 had me feeling happy until I read “I like X but that doesn’t mean they’re innocent” twice within ten seconds. I’m very undecided on her, but I know it’s partly because she’s ragging on me for not having any internet. I think she’s a bit too casual with her suspicions, which makes me wonder why. It seems to be mostly this post though, which is even weirder than weirder. I need to step back and think more about her.


Re: Lottie’s #44. Thanks, dear. Thanks a lot. *whimpers, sniffles, feels unloved*


I love that Kit is going to defiantly post. What are you in defiance of? *winks*


BG’s #47 is so bloody bizarre. I can’t decide whether or not she’s serious about Oz. And she’s just not going to vote? If you suspect someone, you vote. (Like I said, her Oz suspicion almost has to be a joke, but....I just don’t know.) This is very confusing. :/


Dun makes sense and eats his pillow. The two conditions are not mutually exclusive. I like him.

Nope, I lied. He talks about Nessa’s odds talk and then mentions my name. I totally missed something. I don’t suppose I could get clarification?


Mac continues to make sense in his #53. The wolves likely won’t hint to the cobbler. The cobbler, however, will hint to the wolves. Thus my above cobblery thoughts.



And with that I’ve read up to my #60. Posting this and will share more after lunch.

[Aganzir]

Mac & Boro didn't look wolfish, Mac made the most sense, Mac is objective. Nessa & skip are worrisome. That's basically what ed said about us. I wonder if her death was an attempt to frame an innocent skip or Nessa... at first glance it certainly points away from Mac - which might be the plan, or might not.

[Pitchwife]

My, my, Rikae's laconic uneasiness with me has sprouted and borne fruit, it seems. Evidently it's 'being jumpy' to ask someone who throws a laconic oneliner like that at me for explanations, especially when it was her first post and she'd singled me out without commenting on anybody else, yes?
Looking at her later posts, she was rather quick to backpedal when questioned about that remark - but by then her 'uneasiness' (I'm not really sure whether to call it a suspicion yet) had been picked up by several others, so maybe she was content to relax and let them do the work? It would be awfully easy to see wolvish behaviour there - a little too easy, I think. I'm actually more inclined to think she was trying to test me for reaction, or maybe even throwing that remark out as a bait to see who would latch on to it.
Kit, for example - if I remember correctly, it was she who first posted a real suspicion with arguments to it against me. On the other hand, she also questioned Rikae and Sally for reasons, and it looks like she weighed the pros and cons impartially before voting. Her vote is understandable due to time constraints, I think, so I'll let her be for toDay.
Mac too, and I notice that he made a point of commending Kit for good posting (buttering up?) and subsequently latched on to the things she said about me. Otherwise, he and Agan are giving me a major headache with that cobbler-hint discussion. I don't see through it yet - better watch them both.

Legate and Shasta have both remarked how Lottie is remarkably un-talkative this game and not quite her regular self, which has bothered me too, but I'm a bit puzzled by this:

Originally Posted by Legate

Now if we are speaking of Cobbler hints, THIS might be one.

I'm not sure what you're saying here, Legate - that Lottie says Agan calling the cobbler 'she' is a cobbler-hint, or that Lottie is cobbler-hinting herself in this quote? If the latter, I'd say that's quite a stretch.
(As for the matter itself, I've noticed that Agan habitually calls all roles 'she' - obviously she doesn't hold with gender-neutral pronouns; so this is certainly not a cobbler-hint on her part.)


Regarding the rest of the village, I'm feeling OK with Boro (and will be feeling even more OK once he cuts the dream-interpreting banter and gets down to business) and skip and not alarmed yet by Zil and Shasta. I'd like to hear more from Ozzy, he hasn't really said anything that's stuck in my memory yet.
Nessa has, I believe, some posts of rather nondescript content as well (have I said that I hate math?). And there's a lot of people still dozing under my caribou with only a post or two - Eomer, BG, Ms Hubbard, Valier, anybody else? I keep forgetting how many people we've got in this village.

Now let's see how many people I've already x-ed with...

EDIT: from #79 onward, that is.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

My, my, Rikae's laconic uneasiness with me has sprouted and borne fruit, it seems. Evidently it's 'being jumpy' to ask someone who throws a laconic oneliner like that at me for explanations, especially when it was her first post and she'd singled me out without commenting on anybody else, yes?

Yeah, so Pitchcobbler seems to have been hinting at/about Boro. *shrug* Not sure if there is anything useful in that, or whether I'm even reading too much into it, but it does seem to me that a look at Pitch's behavior might be useful, since the wolves likely knew who he was and he may have had some clues as to their identities as well.

I don't necessarily trust Cailin, but I'm prepared to believe her conclusions on Shasta's dreams. No wolf dream explains why he didn't reveal, and Legate, Agan and I make perfect sense as his picks, all of us being so very creepy and all.

Shame that I don't get to scare Legate anymore, though. To answer his question, I was thinking about remodeling my kitchen, so that song started running through my head ("got to move these...refrigerators"), got mixed together with WW, and the result amused me enough that I posted it.

At any rate: I am starting to have a very bad feeling about Mac. It's only a feeling, but he's creeping me out. Going to have a look at his posts when I can.
Mac, how do you go from "probably he hasn't dreamt of me after all" (a reasonable conclusion) to listing yourself alongside Agan, who he put on the "green" list?

[Mänwe]

I think we might underestimate the desire a seer might have for self preservation, seeing as they're one of the more immediately helpful characters to us innocents. I would venture it a possibility that he'd draw attention away from himself to a quiet and considered by most "submarine" prisoner, to ensure his survival for another night of dreaming.

I can see that his comments about me will be construed as proof of my guilt but I would say to my fellow good spirits, look carefully at who and how people jump onto what he said and condemn me- I could be the easiest bandwagon today if you allow it.

And so far the bandwagon has ended up a good spirit each time.

It's late here so i'll be back tomorrow.

EDIT: x'ed with Rikae and Aganzir

[Ozban]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Not so much of Ozzy, but he is terribly funny. Not very much actually contributive, though. Still, nothing against him for the time being.

Well... Thanks?

You got a point with Lottie, that second post really looks alibistic. But I can easily imagine ordo writing that, just to cover himself. I saw that happen.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Round here we call that wily girl "Sally".

Ah, thanks. Wasn't sure whom was everybody referring to.

I'd love to hear more from Sally. Way it is, i might as well vote for her, she's keeping low profile, not helping at all... Than that question of informations Rikae supposedly had. And although i hate that phrase, got some gut feeling, that everything isn't allright about her.

I'd also like to hear something from Lommy. I don't suspect her, I'd just like to hear what she thinks.

I'm losing my faith in Agan after last few posts. But as Rikae said, her behavior can mean anything.

And there is number of people who are quiet all the time, or so it seems. Cailín, Mänwe, what can I think of them?

DL is drawing nearer...

P.S.: Pitch: Legate isn't going to answer, he's on the plane, unless i'm terribly mistaken.

X'd since 82.