Taters to Taters - II

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Anyway, for that matter, back to the main discussion - I don't see why the assumption seems to be that "classic" equals "classic in real-world mythology". I think "classic in Middle-Earth mythology" is equally appropriate, if not more. That's why the Last Alliance, the Doom of Mandos, Noldor, even Gandalf or Elendil the Tall, or in my argument Gorgoroth, seem much more valid to me than any of the rest.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I don't see why the assumption seems to be that "classic" equals "classic in real-world mythology". I think "classic in Middle-Earth mythology" is equally appropriate, if not more.

I guess that again is for Lommy to decide.

I can push my interpretation and you can push yours. She decides.

And continuing of doing just that:

I think that the word classic fits far better to things that are in the ME but still have all this classicality of our real-world tradition behind them, they are like "living instances" of the classical things, concepts, places, tales... maybe even persons.

To me it's harder to see what a ME-mythology classic would be with such little to go for... I mean we don't know what tales the easterlings told to their children, on what places or events the Haradian poets wrote about... which were the canonical myths of the first age men and were they given over to the second and third age generations and how can you track a trace of it in the fourth-age Gondorian song for a feast?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

I guess that again is for Lommy to decide.

I can push my interpretation and you can push yours. She decides.

Sure. What do you think we are doing all the time? I think that goes without saying

To me it's harder to see what a ME-mythology classic would be with such little to go for... I mean we don't know what tales the easterlings told to their children, on what places or events the Haradian poets wrote about... which were the canonical myths of the first age men and were they given over to the second and third age generations and how can you track a trace of it in the fourth-age Gondorian song for a feast?

Sure. But then again, we of course have some vague idea of what is "classic" in the "West-Middleearthian" concept (all the tales we know from the books). And when you say that we do not know what the Easterlings were telling their kids, this could be countered with saying that our real-world concept of "classic" (as we present ones are more or less coming from the cultural context stemming from the European civilisation) is born with the same flaw. I believe you would agree if I say that we consider classic the concepts present in especially Greek and Roman mythology, with a bit of Near-Eastern flavor especially due to the influence of Christianity etc., then various other native European (Germanic, Scandinavian, Slavic...) mythology concepts. But we probably don't find the concepts found in, say, Native American or African mythology to be "classic", unless they happen to be close to "ours".

So much for the meta-discussion

As for Lommy's musings, if I were to choose one of even the "lesser ones", I still consider Noldor pretty nice. Out of the two big ones, I would probably prefer the Doom of Mandos to the Last Alliance, simply because it has all the big tragic elements with fate and doom - and maybe a hint of timelessness can be seen in the original power of the curse. Or maybe it is because about the Last Alliance, we do not know as much, in fact, as about this one.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

we of course have some vague idea of what is "classic" in the "West-Middleearthian" concept (all the tales we know from the books). And when you say that we do not know what the Easterlings were telling their kids, this could be countered with saying that our real-world concept of "classic" (as we present ones are more or less coming from the cultural context stemming from the European civilisation) is born with the same flaw. I believe you would agree if I say that we consider classic the concepts present in especially Greek and Roman mythology, with a bit of Near-Eastern flavor especially due to the influence of Christianity etc., then various other native European (Germanic, Scandinavian, Slavic...) mythology concepts. But we probably don't find the concepts found in, say, Native American or African mythology to be "classic", unless they happen to be close to "ours".

I actually do agree with you. But I had to try and present a different interpretation to help my tater succeed... which was clearly doomed to fail as Lommy didn't think my tater to be a good pick in anycase, whichever the major interpretation.

That said, I actually agree with you and Lommy that the Doom of Mandos is a better suiting candidate for the classic - while also agreeing the Last Alliance to be a good one as well.

[Thinlómien]

I'll go with the

++Doom of Mandos

simply because I like it more as a(n elemnt of a) story, and because that way I can nod at those who played Mandos, the Noldor and Galadriel, all of which were suggestions I liked.

[Boromir88]

So who's the classic one?

Legate.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

So who's the classic one?

Legate.

Haha! Now I understand why Legate was so keen to downplay Mandos being the place!

Well won! *bows*