First look at Evangeline Lilly in 'The Hobbit: the Desolation of Smaug'

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

There are different versions, but I don't think B-berry's (I should probably stop using this acronym because I pronounce it 'Bieberry' in my head) interpretation was off. Of course women can talk about men, but since the male characters don't only talk about women either, it would be justified to show women speaking of something that adds something to them as characters instead of to the male characters.

But I think there is a difference between “talking about men” and “talking about a series of events in which men were involved”.

Originally Posted by Mith

Finally I reject the suggestion that objecting to Tauriel makes me somehow anti feminist. I care about the story not the gender of the protagonists.

Well, I certainly didn’t mean to suggest that, Mith. However, I do think there has been an overreaction to the mere fact of this character's being a girlie– which doesn’t, in itself, break the universe as far as I’m concerned. Neither does her bearing arms, in my opinion– of course it’s not the only way for a woman to be “strong”, but it’s a way, isn’t it? What I think matters anyway isn’t how closely a female character fits any given viewer’s or reader's ideal (feminist or otherwise) but how well-written and portrayed she is– and *that’s* where I fear it’s all going to come unstuck.

Hmmn. Seems I’ve got myself out on a limb here. Ah well.

[Mithalwen]

But it has been implied that it is the only way that a woman can be strong inthis film. I don't have a problem with female warriors per se and I certainly haven'T conformed to them in my own life (am I a strong woman because I played rugby but a weak one because I embroider and knit?). But i had the blessing to be born at about the first moment n time when having two x chromosomes wasn't such a limiting factor though I was born a little to soon to be able to realise my unlikeliy childhood ambition of being a RAF pilot and it is still unusu for women to chose frontline military roles. My Naval cousin observed that the women in his cohort at Dartmouth chose logistics not Warfare. Female warriors are not a usual part of Tolkien's universe and unless Tauriel is somme Jeanne dArc type figure it makes little sense for there to be a female captain if there are no women in the rank and file. I just think it ts the worst kind of facile tokenism and as such insulting to women.Makes about as much sense as having the Tom Hanks character in Saving Private Ryan played by a woman. Maybe PJ is salving some lingering resentment that he never worked on Xena. Dunno but I don't see how this character will be an improvement. If they were serious about it there would have been no need for a recreation when Ronan was unavailable. Too many changes seem to have been made to accommodate Jackson's pet actors for me to have an iota of faith that there is any real vision or integrity. It just seems to be pure self indulgence and the lack of female characters in the original a convenient but unconvincing excuse.

[Mithalwen]

We do not hear enough of Idril but she is far more proactive than any other woman. and can manage Daddy so she marries the lover of her choice AND is the only woman that does anything altruistic the only one who shows any leadeship and awareness of the wider context rather than forcing others into danger by wilful behaviour. Unlike certain others who we never hear the end of who are essentially only motivated by self interest.